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tv   The Media Show  BBC News  May 10, 2022 2:30am-3:00am BST

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this is bbc news. the headlines: the russian leader, vladimir putin, has addressed the huge victory day military parade in moscow, saying the invasion of ukraine had been provoked by the west, and that russian troops fighting there were "defending the motherland". but he didn't say how or when the war might end. with more than 80% of the votes counted in the philippines presidential election, ferdinand marcos junior is heading for a landslide win. unofficial results indicate mr marcos, known locally as �*bongbong', has more than twice the votes than his main rival, the outgoing vice president, leni robredo.
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the queen has pulled out of tuesday's state opening of parliament in london. it will be the first time since 1963 the queen will have missed the annual ceremony which sets out the british government's legislative agenda for the year ahead. prince charles will deliver the speech instead. i'm a big dog. yo, baby, you don't have to put your top back on. lwas w. — he was twice my age. there was this kind of power dynamic.
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this is predatory behaviour. that's the joint bbc—guardian newspaper investigation into alleged sexual misconduct by the dj, tim westwood. i've been speaking to the reporter behind it about how you get a story like that over the line. but first, just as europe gets tough on the big tech companies, does the uk look poised to do less, not more? the financial times reported this week that ministers have ditched plans to empower their newest tech regulator with, well, actual power. the snappily—named digital markets unit was announced to great fanfare back in 2020 when we discussed it on the media show. it was billed as the uk's answer to keeping companies like facebook and google in check. but the ft reports that this year's queen's speech won't give the team the legislative powers they need to flex their muscles. with me are philip marsden, one of the treasury's original architects of the digital markets unit, also professor at the college of europe. margotjames is a former digital minister at the dcms,
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and kate beioley is the financial times�*s legal correspondent. and, kate, you broke the story, but before we get into that, what is the digital markets unit and why does it matter to normal people? the government announced it was setting up this digital markets unit two years ago, and the idea was that this would be able to police big tech and really kind of rein in the dominance of those internet giants like facebook, google and all the rest of it. and the idea was that it would have this sweeping power to set new rules for those big tech companies, bespoke rules tailored to their specific markets and sectors. and it would be able to really heavily enforce against those companies if they fell foul of the rules. so, that's why it matters. it's a very radical regime that was envisaged. ok, so, what have you revealed? so, we've revealed that the government is currently not planning to introduce those plans in the queen's speech, so it's not currently planning to empower this digital markets unit with the very tools it needs to enact this radical new regime, leaving it essentially hamstrung.
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and that's despite the fact that it was already introduced, so this dmu exists in shadow form with 60 members of staff thereabouts. but they are unable at the moment to do the job that they were basically hired to do. well, philip marsden, you were with this since the beginning under theresa may. did the news come as a surprise to you? it did because the momentum has been really strong the last three or four years to undertake this initiative, and in fact if i canjust give you a very bad metaphor, antitrust cases against these big tech giants are like, you know, a cowboy on foot chasing a galloping wild horse. this legislation is designed to try to corral that horse and let it do more for others, let these tech giants open up to others. but not putting this bill through in the queen's speech is like locking the barn door well after the horses have bolted, but also locking the cowboys inside and maybe even setting fire to the barn. so, when did you first get the hint that... you know, it's a 60—strong organisation as it is. when did you first get the hint that perhaps the government
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wasn't quite as excited to get them to work as perhaps you are? well, the hint, in fact, best comes from kate's paper and her article in that regard, but there have been noises in the last three or four weeks that, "oh, we've got a very "busy legislative agenda, we've got lots of "other things to go." but the thing is, to use the prime minister's words, this is oven—baked, this is ready to go. the legislation is pretty well draughted and ready to go, the staff are there, theyjust need to be given that kind of direction from government. and many people listening to the media show will have heard of the online safety bill. it was presented to parliament last month, and that includes measures like placing a duty of care on tech firms to protect users from harmful content and those tech firms can be issued with heavy fines. so, how is what the digital markets unit will do so different from that? it's because the problems that you're looking at there, the ones you're mentioning, are all based on one particular thing, which is the market power, as you mentioned, katie, at the beginning, the power that these entities have. — we don't fault them at all. they're very good, they're great for innovation. the british regime was designed, if this bill
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was going to go through, to preserve the innovative benefits of these powerful companies, but also rein in some of the aspects where they're negative. and online safety is an issue. but you can't rein in these giants with an online safety bill unless you have the digital markets unit there to control their power. well, we're fortunate enough to have margotjames here, who's a former digital minister at the dcms. thank you, margot, for coming on the programme. iwonder, you know, how to check the power of the tech giants was something that preoccupied a lot of your time when you were a minister. what do you make of this? well, i'm disappointed in it. i think the online harms bill serves a different purpose . to the digital, what would'vel been the digital markets bill, which was more about. the competitive antitrust situation. things like, for example, | if you look at what the eu are doing, they're just about . to pass the digital markets act at european level, and thati will do things for consumers like improve competition - in ways like the apple payments monopoly. if you have apps, if you make
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a payment, you have to use i apple pay. the legislation at european level will mean that other. payment providers will be i allowed to participate in that environment, charges will come down. - so, it's things like that. it's more the commercial side of the tech power. l it is why is, you know, - almost all advertising now routed through google and facebook. - that's not fair competition. there's lots to do around that, which is not really where - the online harms bill is orienting. - well, can you give us a sense, then, of why it might happen? do you know why the government might have changed its mind on a policy that, if they have changed their mind indeed, on a policy that was being trumpeted only a year or two ago? it can be various reasons, in my experience. - sometimes it is the weight of legislation that has - to be got through. dcms is very busy with the online harms bill, |
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with other legislation as well. it may have been thought that| it's too much for dcms to cope with and they'll have to wait another year for it. - it might be something else. it might be something - like the government might have become worried about the i investment of the technology industry in our market, - that they might be concerned that, you know, too. much regulation might put off investment. - that could be an issue. and, philip... sorry to interrupt. philip, you're nodding on that. you're in agreement with that, are you? well, the issue here is that if you're thinking about a google hq in kings cross and how many people that might employ, even though they're all working from home anyway, then you might have the investment argument and i very much agree with margot on that. but the kind of innovation and investment into the uk that this bill would unleash in terms of economic diversity, people able to choose different sources rather than just google or apple or whatever, these kinds of things can actually be really, really good. there's things that our little island gets right, and so by delaying this bill, you're delaying that kind
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of innovation, that kind of investment. and frankly, you know, the government and the digital markets unit, they have a body of men there, body of men and women, who are sitting there ready to work on this stuff and now they're not going to be able to give them the powers. and they'll inevitably be assigned to other things. 0k, well, philip marsden, professor at the college of europe, and kate beoiley from the ft who broke the original story, thank you so much for coming on the media show. margotjames, i think you're staying on to give us some insights later into the culture at westminster, but before that, this other story. you know, he is one of the biggest names in british music. for nearly a0 years, tim westwood dominated the uk black music scene. the former bbc1 and extra dj was for decades able to make or break the careers of up—and—coming artists. you are a legend, bro. you're a legend. tim westwood! westwood and me, the rap show. the 2007 mobo for best dj, tim westwood! after leaving the bbc in 2013, tim westwood presented a weekly show on capital xtra
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until last week, when a joint investigation by the bbc and the guardian brought allegations of sexual misconduct to light. he's undone his trousers. he actually tapped me to turn around, to look at the fact that he was exposing himself. i rememberjust feeling completely powerless. lwas w. — he was twice my age. there was this kind of power dynamic. i ijust really wish i'd be able to speak to my teenage self and say... bbc 3's 30—minute documentary tim westwood: the abuse of power investigated the renowned rep dj, hearing from six black women who accused him of sexual misconduct, predatory sexual encounters and unwanted touching. now, chi chi izundu made the documentary with colleague ruth evans, and just before went on air, i spoke to her and asked her about it. so, this story was about seven women who detailed accounts of unexpected and unwanted sexual behaviour from the radio dj tim westwood.
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now, the women, who were all black and were all in their late teens or early 205 when these incidents allegedly happened, described their experiences to the bbc as part of a joint investigation with the guardian newspaper into the former radiol dj. now, all of the women say that they met the dj either as aspiring artists or as attendees of one of the club nights that he performed at. two women both came to london on separate occasions from their homes in the midlands to meet him expecting to discuss music, but one says he even invited her to do work experience at bbc radio 1. both accuse the dj instead of driving them to a flat and initiating unexpected and unwanted sex. a third woman, who was 17 at the time, said the dj subjected her to unwanted oral sex, whilst four other women say tim westwood either grabbed their breast or put his hand up their skirt
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or down the back of their shorts whilst they posed for pictures with him at club nights. it is, of course, a horrible story. it's also a story that got picked up across the media, where these kind of stories don't come around that often, do they? where it gets such a lot of pick—up, but also where the person accused of wrongdoing acts so quickly. what was the reaction to the story? well, the reaction's been huge. there's been a lot of comment in the media and social media about this story. now, tim westwood, we must remember, is a really well—known dj, a former bbc radio1 presenter for nearly 20 years and influential in both music and black communities because of how much he championed black music when a lot of commercial networks weren't that interested in playing a wide variety of black music and weren't that interested in showing what black culture was all about. and we must say when this story broke, a spokesperson for tim westwood says he does
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strenuously deny these allegations and said that he's never acted or acts in the manner described. but he has stepped down temporarily from hisjob at the moment at capital. now, you mentioned the testimonies of these women, these really powerful testimonies that were in your programme. what were your safeguarding responsibilities as a journalist to those women? so, i think people might be surprised that for quite a few of the women that took part in the documentary, it was actually the first time that they'd ever told their whole story to anyone, was speaking to us asjournalists. and that's a really precious type of trust, especially because you're telling your story essentially to a stranger, someone you've never met, someone who's contacted you out of the blue, someone who you're telling something incredibly sensitive and personal to. so, the way i did it, not everyjournalist does it this way, but the way that i did it with regard to safeguarding, it's a matter of agreeing how the interview's
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going to go, how and where they will feel safe talking about that. so, obviously i work at the bbc. some people didn't feel comfortable coming to the bbc, so we didn't do that. it's also a matter of reassuring them that they can contact me at any time of the day or night because, again, you never know how you're going to react once you've released that thing that's been in the back of your mind for a really long time. you never know... some people would want to just ring you and scream or they might have lots of questions and they might not want to do it in their 9—5 during the day when they're trying to concentrate on work. so, we made sure that our names and numbers were always available for any questions or any kind of reaction that people might want to have. it's about talking them through each step, so it's not just you give us the interview,
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it's going to be broadcast. it's about talking them through each step and what's going to happen, what we're doing because it's that waiting period that i think causes a lot more anxiety, unnecessary anxiety, for some people that decide to tell these kinds of stories. and you don't want months of silence, you don't want long periods of silence between when they've given that really sensitive piece of information to you and the time it's going to be broadcast. and then, more importantly, it's the checking in with them just before the broadcast to make sure that they're 0k and checking in with them straight after the broadcast to make sure that they're 0k and making sure that they're, they've not been re—triggered, asking them really simple things like, "what are you doing this weekend," because it does take away the mind from effectively playing on the thing that they've told you about that might re—trigger them and cause them mental health issue.
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so, we try and make sure that we're constantly talking to them about... in fact, my colleague ruth said that for her, what she does, she worked on this documentary with me, she will ask somebody about something that has nothing to do with the actual story for almost the same length of time that we've talked about for the actual story because i think she read somewhere that psychologically that is a good deterrent so that people aren't triggered further. that's interesting, isn't it, you definitely don't want to re—traumatise people, but equally you're asking them to go through something that's pretty horrific. i mean, these were all black women that were giving you their testimonies, and i wondered how difficult you think it is to get stories from the black community, particularly for the bbc perhaps. it is horrendously difficult to get stories like this from the black community. it's not easy. i would argue it's largely through a huge mistrust of black communities and the media, and black communities don't trust necessarily the media and how they've been historically
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portrayed in negative lights or even stories that matter to the black communities not being given as much prominence in news agendas as other stories. plus, there's belief that there aren't black people like me working at the bbc who are ready, willing and able to listen to these types of stories and fight for them to get on the news agenda. and that is a problem. historically, that is a problem at the bbc. but it is difficult to get people to open up about any kind of story like this, but i found it particularly difficult in black communities, yeah. and as you said, tim westwood strongly denies all the allegations. he says, in a career that spanned a0 years, there've never been any complaints made against him, officially or unofficially, said his spokesperson. do you expect more women to come forward or is this
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the end of it? as you can imagine, this is as a sad result of this story, and i say sad because, yes, it's sparked quite a reaction and a lot of people have got in contact with the bbc. the music industry has not had it's, what i would call, overt #metoo moment, but this story, i'm hoping, may give people the courage to come forward. that was chi chi izundu and the documentary tim westwood: abuse of power is on bbc iplayer. now, we have heard a lot about mps and the culture of westminster over the last week, from angela rayner being accused of crossing her legs to distract borisjohnson in debates, to sexual misconduct accusations hitting the front benches of both parties to one conservative mp finally admitting to watching porn in the debating chamber. but what about the culture of politicaljournalism reporting on them? former minister and conservative mp margot james is still with us, as
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are eleanor langford, a political reporter for the website politics home, and katie ferguson, the deputy political editor at the sun. and, kate, you and a sun colleague had that exclusive that an at—that—point unnamed male mp had been accused of watching porn in the house of commons. how did you break that story, kate? i mean, this was a story that came... i think came to me on a tuesday night, that tory mps had been having a meeting in parliament and that meeting was there to discuss how you can keep and attract more women into politics. that quite quickly became a sort of #metoo meeting where lots of anger boiled over into allegations of sexual misconduct among their own colleagues, and in that quite highly charged meeting, someone did mention that they had seen a colleague on his phone watching pornography in the house of commons chamber. and someone told me that, so that's how we got that story. we broke it early the next day.
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did you realise quite how big a story it was going to be? because obviously there were all these other stories swirling at that point, and did it make a difference in terms of how big it was, or did you know it was going to be as big as it was? you knew that was going to be a big story. i think it was interesting that part of the reason that meeting was called was the day before or couple of days before, that sunday times had a different story which they revealed that a couple of cabinet ministers and some labour frontbenchers were being investigated for sexual misconduct, so it was already swirling around these ideas and anger over how women were being treated in parliament and who was responsible for it as well. very uncomfortable that people on the front bench could be responsible for it. and once you had reported an mp had been watching porn, did you know it was only a matter of time before the name emerged? presumably, all lobby journalists and other journalists were chasing that. yeah, you're right, like once you report that, a massive can of worms opens and everyone is trying to chase the name.
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and for a couple of days, no one had the real name, and we did have rumours swirling around of who it would be. and i think that might be partly part of the reason why neil had to come out and say it was him, because other tory male mps were being rung up and being told, "we've been told it's you, is it you?" so, you were having people accused of doing something that hadn't actually done, so it was quite awkward i think for the parliamentary party to be put through that. and were those people being called up because they were on a list of, was it people who might do this sort of thing or were people calling everybody? no, i think probably more the former. interesting, 0k. well, this story is for us as an opportunity to find out more about the culture of politicaljournalism at westminster. and eleanor langford, let me bring you in here because you're a reporter for the website politics home and you're relatively new to the lobby. i wonder what your experience in this field is.
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it's been an interesting one, because ijoined politics home about two years ago, and obviously we had the pandemic for a lot of that time, so i couldn't actually going to parliament and i could not experience the culture there or much of the drinking after hours. it's only around august, so about the last eight months i've really been exposed to this. and also, i have no comparison to how it was before, but it did surprise me how quickly once the parliament opened, i started to see some odd behaviour from mps, ranging from, like, drunken behaviour in the bars and arguments up to hearing about sexual harassment and experiencing inappropriate comments. so, it was a bit of a surprise how quickly it kind of came to me injust the first few months of my career. and what sort of inappropriate comments have you experienced? have you experienced any? so, i've had mps ask me if i date mps, then suggest if i did, it would help my career. if you date mps? yeah, if i date an mp, i had an mp ask me that. and i've also had mps comment on my appearance and the appearance of my colleagues, comparing us. and i've overheard mps and their staff making quite inappropriate jokes about female colleagues and sometimes male colleagues to an extent.
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and it's... thankfully, i've never had anything too severe, but it is a little uncomfortable to be hearing that when you are down the corridor from your office effectively, although you are in a bar, and that's one of the things come up a lot this week is the bars and how those facilitate lots of behaviour. and i saw margot shaking her head. before i bring you in, margot, i just want to ask you one more thing, eleanor, which is we framed our discussion at the top of the programme about power and how it can be abused. i wonder when you are early on in your career like you are, is it particularly hard to speak out when your career effectively depends on cultivating relationships with mps? i'm very lucky that i've got an incredibly supportive team so the second i say to my editor, like with an mp, i would not be comfortable, when i want them, they will deal with that. and have you said that to your editor about particular mps? yes, they're fully aware. but... goodness. yeah. but it is a bit tricky, particularly as a small publication and as a younger journalist that you do think
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that i don't have necessarily the same impact that a journalist who's been doing this for 30 years might have. so, it's a lot more that the power is a lot more in the mps' hands and they're not picking up the phone for me affects me a lot more than it affects them. so, there is a bit of a power imbalance there when you're early in your career. and margotjames, let me bring you in. you were a minister in the dcms, you were also an mp and now you are out of parliament. i wonder now, you know, reflecting on that relationship between journalists and mps, and how it plays into the culture from the mps�* side, what's your take on it? well, from my friends - who are still in parliament, i'm sorry to say that i think that it has got worse - since i left. which, you know, i was alwaysl on a progressive conveyor belt, if you like, hoping _ and assuming things would get better, not worse, - but if anything it's taken a step backwards. why do you think that is? ooh... well, awkwardly, i have to say
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that i think it's possibly- because of the election - of a lot more conservative men. i do feel there is a difference i between, from my recollection, certain behaviours that - were more common in my party than they were on the labour benches, and i think that's i partly because women - in the labour party have been banging this drum about what's acceptable behaviour— and what isn't for longer - for women in the conservative party. and i'm delighted by some i of the reactions i have heard from some of my former. colleagues over the last ten days, women like anne—marie trevelyan, who's been very. honest about some of- the unacceptable behaviour she has received from peers, i women like suella braverman, caroline noakes, they have been very firm on this. - and i think, and then. from the back benches, pauline as well from - derbyshire, she has been fantastic. so, there's a lot of women now
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i think in the conservative - party saying enough is enough, we are going to change this and it is high time. - 0k, kate ferguson, deputy political editor of the sun, i'm going to bring you back in. does politicaljournalism have more of an issue with sexism than do you think that other areas ofjournalism? i don't have a straight answer to that. i couldn't tell you a yes or no to that, if i'm honest. i used to be a general reporterfor ten years, i've been a lobby reporter for five years. the main difference between those two things is, as a lobby reporter, you're based in parliament, you're cultivating relationships, which are going to last years, maybe to see you through to the end of your career. and so it's more important to cultivate relationships and keep on good terms with everyone. and do you get good stories out of the bars, for example? yes, you do, and i know that the bars do come in for a fair bit of criticism, but in my opinion, bad behaviour is bad behaviour wherever it happens. and grown men, and women, should be more than able to hold a drink at the bar without resorting
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to sexual harassment or indeed assault. and eleanor... sorry, sorry to interrupt. eleanor, i was going to say just quickly, what's your take on whether politicaljournalism has more of an issue with sexism than other areas ofjournalism? i'm with kate, i'm not certain, because i've not worked in other areas ofjournalism, but i do think that because, as kate was saying, because of that very personal relationship you have to have with mp5 and people in politics that you maybe experience, enountering people and you get to know them a lot more closely. so, you maybe encounter these kind of issues more often because rather than speaking to 30 people and then never speaking to them again, you're speaking to them again and again and there's more of a chance for inappropriate behaviour to come out if somebody is that way inclined. just very quickly, on your list of who you tell your editor, is it by political party, is one party worse than the other or can you not say? definitely can't say that. fair enough, i'm afraid that's all we have time for today. thank you so much, margotjames, former minister and now executive chair
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at the university of warwick, thank you also of course to kate ferguson, deputy political editor at the sun, and eleanor langford from politics home, who was just ending it there. the media show will be back next week. thank you so much for listening. goodbye. hello, there. there is a bit more rainfall in the forecast hello there. there's more rainfall in the forecast across more northern and western parts of the country over the next few days. little rain for the south and the east, and it will be quite windy at times thanks to low pressure always nearby — and you can see it's here anchored to the north of the uk on tuesday, lots of isobars on the charts, most of the showers will be in the north and the west. the overnight weather front will be weakening as it continues to move across
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east anglia in the southeast, barely anything on it. and then, for most places, tuesday afternoon looks bright — sunshine, showers, most of these in the north and the west, some of them will be heavy, even thundery. and the winds quite a feature as well, especially across western scotland. temperatures ranging from around the mid—to—high teens, could see 20 celsius across the south—east. so it's here where we'll see the highest pollen levels again. further north, although fairly high, it won't be quite as bad as what we've had over the last few days. so the wind, the rain, the showers begins to ease down around the middle—latter parts of the week, and then, into the weekend, high pressure starts to build in. it'll start to turn sunny and warmer, especially as we head on into next week.
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welcome to bbc news. i'm david eades. our top stories: president putin uses russia's victory day parade tojustify his invasion of ukraine, but no indication of any change of course. is ferdinand marcosjunior, the son of a former dictator, heading for a landslide win in the philippines presidential election? for the first time in nearly 60 years, queen elizabeth will not attend one of her most important ceremonial duties — the state opening of the british parliament. and it's andy warhol's most expensive painting ever — his iconic portrait of marilyn monroe is sold at auction.

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