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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  May 23, 2022 4:30am-5:01am BST

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this is bbc news. the headlines: president biden has had a meeting with emperor naruhito of japan during the second leg of a trip to east asia, that's intended to reinforce ties to its allies in the region. mr biden is due to hold talks with the political leaders of japan, india and australia. australia's labor party leader, anthony albanese, has been sworn in as the country's new prime minister, ending nearly a decade of rule by the conservative coalition. the swearing—in was accelerated so that mr albanese could attend a quad leaders�* meeting in tokyo, in an official capacity. the monkeypox virus has now been detected in three more countries, austria, israel and switzerland —
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bringing the total to 15. scientists say they are still unsure what's causing the outbreak but they believe it can be transmitted between humans, as well as from animals to humans. now on bbc news, it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i am stephen sackur. constitutionally barred from seeking a second term in the countries upcoming election. but if he were running, his chances would not be good. his poll ratings are poor. last year, columbia was gripped by street protests, poverty, inequality and violence remain endemic. president duque is my guest today. could his departure signal columbia's rejection of the traditional ruling elite?
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president ivan duque. a very warm welcome to hardtalk. thank to hardtalk. you so much for allowing me thank you so much for allowing me to be here in the show. it is a pleasure having you in the studio. in a few weeks�* time, you will be leaving office and the opinion polls in columbia state a clear majority of your people disapprove of the job you have done. why is that? let me tell you something that is interesting.
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four years ago, in the first round of the elections, i got 39% of the vote and when you look at the national polls that have been outcome of those of the same numbers i have today. if i have a chance to run for re—election, for sure, i will fight for it and be elected because we have important results to show six. you said: "we have an obligation to transform our country restore security and confidence to citizens, promote entrepreneurship, work towards a country with socialjustice." surely what happened just a year ago in columbia gave the lie to all of those promises you made. we saw thousands of people on the streets in cities across columbia, we saw violence, people who were so poor they could no longer stand it. let's look at the facts and then last year. the facts. we have the lowest homicide
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rates in a0 years in columbia. the lowest kidnapping rates since we have kidnapping indicators in columbia. we have the largest reduction of multidimensional poverty since we started those measurements in 2010 and we have reached record highs in economic growth last year and in the first trimester 2022, it is been the best first trimester of this century in columbia. about last year, and it's very interesting, we saw three kinds of situations. one, where legitimate peaceful protests that would try to address because people were affected by the pandemic and the aftermath of the pandemic and that is why we also expanded the social safety net by basically doubling the beneficiaries of social programmes in columbia. the other thing we saw was people who wanted to put blockades in the city and affect
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the economic growth of the city and i think those conditions are clearly criminal and that is what some of those people were trialled and the other thing that is important is we understood that there was a voice from youngsters who wanted to have better opportunities injob seeking. today and this is very important, when we look at the indicators they came out last week, we had the lowest labour informality since we have been measuring informality in columbia. you just gave me a lot of data trying to tell me that things are fine. things are not fine. you've got almost 20 million colombians living in poverty, 6 million of them in extreme poverty and perhaps the worst indictment of your record, the un food and agricultural organisation has just listed your country columbia as the only one in all of south america which is suffering food insecurity and in need of food assistance. this is notjust
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data, it's evidence. they put in a public statement. saying that they did not sufficient data to prove that and they said that columbia has supported 1.8 million venezuelan refugees that have left venezuela that we have been attending them in what is called the most strong humanitarian action by a latin american country in recent history and with that, we have been able to also, not only attend them without too much international support, by the same time, when we look at multidimensional poverty, which is an indicator that was promoted by the united kingdom, we have reached the lowest levels in the century. it's notjust about poverty which is holding back your country's growth prospects. it's about inequality as well. according to all the measures of inequality, yours is the second most unequal country in all south america. you know what's good
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about that question, that inequality in columbia, unfortunately, has been there for a long time and when you compare the measures of inequality, but we what had at the end of 2021 was lower than the one we had in 2019. because you know what, we are the country and the government that is leading free public education for the poorest of the poor to go to higher education in columbia. also the government that passed from 3 million beneficiaries of social programmes to 10 million families that have beneficiaries today and another thing that's very important as we look at housing, sources of electricity, it all comes to the multidimensional poverty and our record has shown multidimensional poverty has reached record lows which means the policy that we have been embracing have been producing inequality. it's just the colombian people do not seem to
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buy your argument. they don't buy the argument on the economy, or on insecurity because it is clear that if one looks at a whole host of different figures and anecdotal evidence from towns and cities across the country, colombians do not feel safe. they see the drugs cartels still operating with relative impunity. the leftist guerrillas and paramilitary groups are operating, you have not pacified your country. maybe you have to look also at the facts because we look at the facts. i inherited obviously a lot of problems but when you look at the two major indicators in latin american countries, having record lows in homicide is not something that benefits the people, having record kidnapping lows is not
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something that benefits the people and another thing is kingpins of armed groups who were the most dangerous criminals in columbia, he was captured and extradited and the structure has been dismantled. assuming that you also mentioned in the notes that you have over there is that people in columbia do not buy what i'm saying and i'm just showing the evidence. and we had a growth last year that was one of the highest in the world and in this first trimester, we're one of the fastest growing economies in the world and and the 0ecd. and the figures can be a little misleading and different from the people experiencing the lives. that is why the government has been the largest social investment ever in columbia. if you look at conditional and unconditional cash transfers, what we have done is we have multiplied the social safety net in such a scale that we are able to reduce poverty after all the effects of the pandemic and that is why
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we have multidimensional poverty reduced. maybe part of the problem is that you talked big and you made big promises. you acccused your predessessor. he also appeared on hardtalk a couple of times. you accused him of leaving columbia swimming in coca and under you, it would be very different. the problem is, if you look at the latest report from the transnational institute, one of the groups that measured these things. cocaine production continues to rise in columbia even if these areas of land under coca leaf crops is reduced somewhat, the actual size of production has risen on your watch. let me tell you about this. 2015, we have 15,000 actors of coca crops. 2018, when i assumed office, we had more than 200,000. the first thing i promise to the colombian people was that we are going to stop
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the exponential growth and we did it. and we're going to reduce the land of illegal crops we did it, and of more than 670 tonnes that were seized by the colombian authorities and also something that is very important, we dismantled three armed groups and the war from which was supposed to be the biggest cartel, recaptured the kingpin and disrupted the line of command. you were so proud to catch and extradite to the us and it was a great triumph. what did we see after he was captured? we saw that they were able to shut down towns and cities across the north of your country. they showed their power, it's believed that they have thousands of men under arms inside the organisation and how can you and your security forces allow that to happen? first of all, it is good to look back in time, stephen. first of all, they did not shut
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down cities and they tried, they tried to generate a moment of uncertainty. but we have been not only attacking the structures, but we have kept on capturing and extraditing their leaders and something very important in the previous eight years before my administration, they tried to do the same thing four times. it's part of their pattern of action. every time they feel weak, they try to create the uncertainty but the most important thing is they have never seen so many people of their structure captured and extradited as what is happened in my administration. let's talk about the farc, the leftist guerrillas who signed a peace deal with your predecessor government and you opposed that deal and you said it was wrong for colombian did not represent justice but you chose not to rip it up over the last four
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years but it seems you decided to do is just go slow on its implementation. do you feel that that is good for columbia? it's always good to look at the facts. not the gossip. believe me, i'm not relying on gossip. we're looking at the institute for international peace studies, they study very carefully what is happening in your country and they said 29% of the peace deal accords have been fully implemented in the sub in roughly 2% advance and implementation over the past year. so, again. let's look at the facts. the institute has said that the advancement level is 35%. in a process that is aimed to be implemented in four administrations. that means at the moment, where we are, we are on track. what is also very important is that the office has said that the advancement of this
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process has taken in this administration has been the fastest pace since it was signed. to just give you an idea that when the government began, we only had two focus of development plans and today we have the 16 and they have $4 billion in investment changing the life and improving the life conditions of people. let me finish there. because i feel it's very important to set the record straight. so, but when we look at the investments that have taken place in those areas, we have the largest investment in water and storage and tertiary roads, electrification and secretary of the united nations they visited columbia last year in the fifth anniversary, he said the implementation of the colombian peace process is a reference model for the world. is one of the problems that your party, your political movement is backed by some of
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the most powerful landowners? they do not want the land reform that is supposed to be a part of the peace deal package in just 4% of the accords and land reform measures are so far complete. is that because the land owners have you in the pocket? first of all, nobody has me in their pocket and the second thing, in order to talk facts and not gossip is that we have granted 52,000 rural titles in my administration. it puts my administration as the number one grant of rural land titles in columbia's history and something that is also very important, we have reached a record high in agricultural exports and the most important thing, stephen, the investment in tertiary roads that benefits all the business in colombian countries has reached record highs and investment. it is community _ highs and investment. it is community activist - highs and investment. it is community activist across | highs and investment. it is community activist across your country, particularly in rural areas, who campaign hardest for land reform. are you ashamed but the latest figure for the
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murders of social and community activists in colombia is 145 of them killed in 2021? the activists in colombia is 145 of them killed in 2021?- them killed in 2021? the sad thing about _ them killed in 2021? the sad thing about this, _ them killed in 2021? the sad thing about this, stephen, . them killed in 2021? the sad thing about this, stephen, is that the ones who have been killing many of the social leaders have been the drug dealers. and even though we had a reduction in my administration of these killings, the number should be zero. ,, ,, ~ ~ zero. crosstalk. when i said ou zero. crosstalk. when i said you ashamed. _ zero. crosstalk. when i said you ashamed, argue, - zero. crosstalk. when i said you ashamed, argue, have - zero. crosstalk. when i said you ashamed, argue, have a l you ashamed, argue, have a sense of shame about that? i think all colombian, we all feel sad that the track ring has reduced such damage but —— drug trafficking has produced so much damage but the fact that we have captured, extradited the leaders of the armed groups who have made all of the assassinations and also demonstrates that the rule of law is going to be always harder on them and i should mention something, more coca is less peace in colombia which is why we made such a strong commitment on stopping the exponential growth and that's
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why we have also been dismantling many of these organisations that have produced so much damage to the colombian people. in a produced so much damage to the colombian people.— colombian people. in a sense, this interview _ colombian people. in a sense, this interview is _ colombian people. in a sense, this interview is like _ colombian people. in a sense, this interview is like a - colombian people. in a sense, this interview is like a sort - this interview is like a sort of end of term report on your presidency and one of the things you promised was to be colombia's environmentalist president. and you of course as president. and you of course as president of colombia were a custodian of a very important rainforest and natural habitat in your beautiful country. in 2020, in the middle of your watch, more than 171 thousand hectares of forest were felled in colombia. how could you let that happen?— that happen? so, again, stephen. _ that happen? so, again, stephen, let's _ that happen? so, again, stephen, let's go - that happen? so, again, stephen, let's go to - that happen? so, again, stephen, let's go to the | that happen? so, again, - stephen, let's go to the facts and not gossip. ii stephen, let's go to the facts and not gossip.— and not gossip. if you don't mind me — and not gossip. if you don't mind me saying _ and not gossip. if you don't mind me saying so, - and not gossip. if you don't mind me saying so, in - and not gossip. if you don't mind me saying so, in this| mind me saying so, in this interview, i am trading facts with. ., ., ., ., with. you are not trading facts. with. you are not trading facts- are _ with. you are not trading facts. are you _ with. you are not trading| facts. are you quarrelling with. you are not trading - facts. are you quarrelling with that figure? — facts. are you quarrelling with that figure? you _ facts. are you quarrelling with that figure? you are _ facts. are you quarrelling with that figure? you are looking l facts. are you quarrelling with | that figure? you are looking at the facts, _ that figure? you are looking at the facts, let _ that figure? you are looking at the facts, let me _ that figure? you are looking at the facts, let me tell— that figure? you are looking at the facts, let me tell you - that figure? you are looking at the facts, let me tell you what| the facts, let me tell you what the facts, let me tell you what the facts, let me tell you what the facts are. the first time in two decades, deforestation levels came to a reduction. and
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this year, we are having 30% of the colombian territory declared a protected area. and we have also passed from 28 megawatts of nonconventional renewable capacity to 2800 megawatts by the end of the year and we have been highlighted as one of the countries that have taken the harder leadership in reducing the c02 harder leadership in reducing the co2 emissions in colombia, and it has been praised by the british government as an example in the cop26 because what we have made is that we have created a programme that has allowed us to reduce deforestation levels and thing that i also feel very proud is that i also feel very proud is that we have been able to create the payment for environmental services... crosstalk. you could have done so much more. let crosstalk. you could have done so much more.— so much more. let me finish for at least one _ so much more. let me finish for at least one time, _ so much more. let me finish for at least one time, stephen. - so much more. let me finish forj at least one time, stephen. one time, let me finish! you invite me to an interview but you do not like me to talk about the things that i think have a clear evidence, and something thatis clear evidence, and something that is very important to highlight is that colombia todayis highlight is that colombia today is in a much better shape
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in environment policies and one of the icons that we have constructed is to have a programme that has allowed, for the first time in three decades, to reduce at the fastest level the deforestation rate we have in colombia. has it come to zero yet? no. but it does put it in the direction to being zero deforestation by 2030, which is the main goal that we have set. the 2030, which is the main goal that we have set.— that we have set. the main candidates _ that we have set. the main candidates in _ that we have set. the main candidates in the _ that we have set. the mainj candidates in the upcoming election mr petero has promised to massively scale back oil! by coal production and he says he will and fracking in colombia. you could have done all of those things.— you could have done all of those things. why didn't you? first of all _ those things. why didn't you? first of all there _ those things. why didn't you? first of all there is _ those things. why didn't you? first of all there is not - first of all there is not commercial fracking first of all there is not commercialfracking in colombia. we have done is scientific pilots just to address whether they are capable of not taking place in colombia. the second thing is colombia. the second thing is colombia produces oil and the oil represents more than 40% of the foreign direct investment and 80%... the foreign direct investment and 80%- - -— the foreign direct investment and 8096. .. ,, ,, ~ ., and 8096. .. crosstalk. you will have and 8096... crosstalk. you will have to when _ and 8096. .. crosstalk. you will have to when your— and 8096... crosstalk. you will have to when your country - and 8096... crosstalk. you will have to when your country off . have to when your country off it, won't you? have to when your country off it. won't you?— it, won't you? 8096 of the
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royalties _ it, won't you? 8096 of the royalties that _ it, won't you? 8096 of the royalties that are - it, won't you? 8096 of the l royalties that are invested. it, won't you? 8096 of the . royalties that are invested. if colombia cuts down the oil production, what will happen is that inflation will be at three digits pretty soon and we are going to lose all of the income but it generates to colombia so it be silly to do something of that nature. the other thing that nature. the other thing thatis that nature. the other thing that is important is that colombia does not use oil to generate electricity. we export more than 50% of the be produced but we have one of the cleanest energy matrix in colombia and we have made a cleaner during my administration and at the same time, when you look at tax collections, deficit, when you look at all of the economic indicators, starting with economic growth, we have reached record highs and something that is also important to put on the table, stephen, is when you look at 2022, we not only are reducing informality, reducing multidimensional poverty, but we have reached none oil and gas for direct foreign investment to grow in was 200% during my term. mil investment to grow in was 20096 during my term-— during my term. all right, i mentioned _ during my term. all right, i mentioned gustavo - during my term. all right, i mentioned gustavo petero| mentioned gustavo petero they're who of course is the left candidate in the presidential election at the moment and he seems to be doing
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well in the polls. why does it seem that you, and of course you came from the sort of right of colombia politics, why are you, it seems, intent on doing all you can to ensure that mr petero does not win the election?— petero does not win the election? ., , ., ., election? four years ago i defeated _ election? four years ago i defeated him _ election? four years ago i defeated him and - election? four years ago i defeated him and this - election? four years ago i i defeated him and this year, it's up to the other candidates also to have very clear confrontation ideas. i understand that but you have very clear rules in your country that you are sitting president cannot get involved in electoral politics and yet you are being sued by the anti—corruption institute in colombia because they allege that you have illegally been trying to influence the selection.— trying to influence the selection. ., ~ ., ., selection. you know what happens? _ selection. you know what happens? i _ selection. you know what happens? i have - selection. you know what happens? i have been - selection. you know what i happens? i have been asked selection. you know what - happens? i have been asked so many times about policy. i don't talk about candidates, i don't talk about candidates, i don't mention candidate names, but what i do is when there is a policy debate, i give my opinion and people don't like that when i refer to one of the biggest challenges of modern democracies, which other threepeat autocrats that promote polarisation, polished
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truth and populism, they feel they are eluded, that's their problem ——3p. they are eluded, that's their problem "sp.— they are eluded, that's their - problem --3p._ goes problem --3p. crosstalk. goes be ond problem --3p. crosstalk. goes beyond the _ problem --3p. crosstalk. goes beyond the platforms. _ problem --3p. crosstalk. goes beyond the platforms. any - beyond the platforms. any policy debates, stephen, any policy debates, stephen, any policy debate, i will certainly give my opinion. it policy debate, i will certainly give my opinion.— give my opinion. it is not about policy _ give my opinion. it is not about policy debate, - give my opinion. it is not about policy debate, it . give my opinion. it is not about policy debate, it is give my opinion. it is not - about policy debate, it is also about policy debate, it is also about the action you talk, signing off on a budget which allowed the government to funnel more than $1 billion to local councils and private contractors in terms of state contracts, specifically undermining the so—called arantes law in your country. the constitutional court has decided that what you did was illegal. decided that what you did was ille . al. ., ., , decided that what you did was illeaal. ., ., , ., illegal. no, what they did not sa it illegal. no, what they did not say it was _ illegal. no, what they did not say it was illegal _ illegal. no, what they did not say it was illegal because - illegal. no, what they did not say it was illegal because i i say it was illegal because i was not the one who approved it. it was approved by congress, by a vast... but you sinned congress, by a vast... but you signed it- — congress, by a vast... but you signed it. yes, _ congress, by a vast... but you signed it. yes, and _ congress, by a vast... but you signed it. yes, and i _ congress, by a vast... but you signed it. yes, and i signed i congress, by a vast... but you signed it. yes, and i signed it| signed it. yes, and i signed it because it — signed it. yes, and i signed it because it was _ signed it. yes, and i signed it because it was a _ signed it. yes, and i signed it because it was a process - signed it. yes, and i signed it because it was a process not| because it was a process not make a mistake, wasn't it? it wasn't, because it was a process based in allowing local income communities, the same low income communities that you referred so much to in this
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interview, it was to grant those local communities investment for water, storage and electricity and if you look at what the court said, all the investments on water, storage, electricity and access to all of the services are not going to be affected by their decision. so it's very interesting that when you look at what really is affecting the decision by the constitutional court, it's a minimum part of the projects that were approved because those projects are... crosstalk. hundreds of millions of dollars are going to be handed back because the courts have overturned your decision. that's something that you should check again with your team. ~ should check again with your team.- because - should check again with your team.- because when should check again with your - team.- because when you team. well... because when you look at what _ team. well... because when you look at what the _ team. well... because when you look at what the court _ team. well... because when you look at what the court says, - look at what the court says, all of the investments in water, sanitation, energy and access to health and education, they are not going to be... crosstalk.— they are not going to be... crosstalk. , , .,, crosstalk. they believe those mechanisms — crosstalk. they believe those mechanisms of _ crosstalk. they believe those mechanisms of allowing - crosstalk. they believe those mechanisms of allowing those l mechanisms of allowing those communities to have those resources are found... aha, communities to have those resources are found... a final thou~ht resources are found... a final thought then. _ resources are found... a final thought then. you're - resources are found... a final thought then. you're about . resources are found... a final| thought then. you're about to leave office and many
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colombians are saying this could be a turning point election colombia because you represent part of a ruling elite in your country that has had a very firm grip on power for two centuries. mr petero represents a leftist, a former guerrilla, i'm not from the elite. colombia could be about to make a revolutionary change. do you think it would be good for your country? do you think it would be good foryour country? first do you think it would be good for your country? first of all, i don't represent any elite whatsoever. i come from a middle income family. my father was the first person in his family to go to college. and i represented also a generation that wanted to put a lot of things in place, and we have done it, and the most interesting thing, stephen, is when you look at the facts, having largest growth, reducing multidimensional poverty, reducing informality, thing able to put the country into a green agenda, and energy transition, a fourth industrial revolution where colombia is captioning fdi from all of the
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world in technology, that represents many of the things that we committed. we accomplished it but we have to face a pandemic and even when the pandemic came, we have left the pandemic came, we have left the country with 70% of the population doubled ghost, 83% one dose, more than 40 million with a booster shot and let me finish with this, and the economy recovering. so what i said after the pandemic that we wanted to have massive vaccination and save recovery, but things have been a come. and we have to end there but president even decay, thank you so much forjoining me on hardtalk. it so much for “oining me on naamalk._ hardtalk. it should be hardlies. _ hardtalk. it should be hardlies. i'm - hardtalk. it should be hardlies. i'm just- hardtalk. it should be i hardlies. i'm just saying. hello. after the warmth of last week,
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when both scotland and england recorded their highest temperatures of the year so far, things are looking cooler this week, especially where it was so warm last week. it'll be breezier, windy by wednesday. it'll be wet at times, not all the time, mostly in the form of showers. a rather cloudy—looking picture for monday, and messy on the chart here with quite a few weather fronts around as well, so we are going to see some wet weather at times. this is how we start the day. this weather front here with cloud and some patchy rain stretching through parts of england. still raining into the north and north—west of scotland, after a damp sunday. that rain, though, just beginning to fizzle out, allowing some brighter skies and a few showers. and elsewhere, although there will be a lot of cloud around, there will be a few bright spells — but notice the showers becoming more widespread late morning and into the afternoon. some heavy, perhaps with a rumble of thunder. an area of rain also for parts of south east england and east anglia later in the day. some uncertainty about how far north and west that will get but don't get caught out by it, and it will make for a cooler day compared with sunday. and overnight and into tuesday, eastern areas most likely to see cloud and some outbreaks of rain.
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showers around elsewhere through england and wales. northern scotland and northern ireland becoming mainly dry here with some clear spells and probably the lowest temperatures as tuesday begins. and then on tuesday, we will continue across some eastern areas to have some rain, perhaps initially toward south—east scotland, and running southwards, through the eastern side of england. elsewhere, it's a case of sunny spells, perhaps catching a shower. a lot of them fading, though, from western areas later in the day, and similar temperatures. a breezy day on tuesday. wednesday's looking like a windier day because one low pressure's moving away, another one's coming in with weather fronts bringing another shot of wet weather from west to east during the day and lifting that wind. looks to be wettest in western scotland for a time — although, even here, turning showery. the rain more patchy the more further south you are. further showers following on behind, though. i think increasingly dry and sunny towards the end of wednesday. a blustery day wherever you are. gusts in scotland, northern ireland, northern england, perhaps around 40 mph or so.
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looks like we'll see another weather system coming in on thursday with further outbreaks of rain pushing further south across the uk before high pressure settles things down for friday and, indeed, into next weekend. that's your latest forecast.
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this is bbc news, with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. i'm ben boulos. president biden is on his first visit to japan since taking office as the us seeks to bolster its regional influence against a dominant china. anthony albanese is sworn in as australia's new prime minister before also heading to tokyo, where china is high on the agenda. the relationship with china will remain a difficult one. i said that election, that has not changed. the monkeypox virus is detected in three more countries — bringing the total to 15. scientists say they're still unsure what's causing the outbreak.
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