welcome to bbc news. i'm david eades the headlines: another mass shooting in the united states, at least 18 children and one teacher have been killed in a primary school in texas. police name the gunmen as salvador ramos who was shot dead. president biden has addressed the nation. tonight, i asked the nation to pray for them. to give the parents and siblings the strength in the darkness they feel right now.— feel right now. senator ted cruz expressed _ feel right now. senator ted cruz expressed his - feel right now. senator ted cruz expressed his horror l feel right now. senator ted l cruz expressed his horror but said gun controls were the wrong way to prevent such

crime. it wrong way to prevent such crime. ., , ., ., “ wrong way to prevent such crime. ., , ., ., ~ , crime. it does not work, it is not affect — crime. it does not work, it is not affect it. _ crime. it does not work, it is not affect it, it _ crime. it does not work, it is not affect it, it does - crime. it does not work, it is not affect it, it does not - not affect it, it does not prevent crimes. you go after fellas, fugitives and those with serious mental illness. staff at the school already preparing counselling sessions for those affected. my preparing counselling sessions for those affected.— for those affected. my heart is broke today- _ for those affected. my heart is broke today. we _ for those affected. my heart is broke today. we are _ for those affected. my heart is broke today. we are a - for those affected. my heart is broke today. we are a small. broke today. we are a small community and we need your press to get us through this. thank you. a very warm welcome. we're going to focus on one mass killing tragedy now because i gunmen has shot that at least 18 pupils and at least one teacher at a primary school in the us state of texas. they

were in a second, third and fourth grade, aged between seven and ten years old. the suspected attacker is an 18—year—old salvador ramos, believed to have been shot dead by law enforcement officers. it occurred in uvalde, a small town 130 metres west of san antonio, at robb elementary, largely hispanic school. the government is thought to have a handgun and possibly arrival as well. the president is that it was time for action on gun laws. local officials provided an update on the investigation about 1.5 hours ago.— about 1.5 hours ago. good evening- _ about 1.5 hours ago. good evening. this _ about 1.5 hours ago. good evening. this was - about 1.5 hours ago. good. evening. this was tragically senseless event today and my heart is broke today. our hearts and thoughts are with the families this day in the days to come.

a few announcements that we need to make is, beginning tomorrow at 10am, we will have grief counselling and support at the civic centre for our students, our staff, community members, anybody that needs to come at that time. and we may be there more than one day, we may be there several days. 0ur robb staff will meet at 8am at the civic centre, as well, and we will begin visiting with them and seeing what those needs are. school will be closed. the school year is done. we will have no school tomorrow or thursday. all activities are cancelled throughout the district. no graduation is on people's mind. we will come out with a notice on that at a later time. all the staff members, they will report to campuses, other than the robb campus, which will come to the civic centre. again, my heart was broken today. we are a small community and we will need your prayers to get us through this. thank you.

a short time ago president biden, who hasjust returned from his asia trip was speaking about the shooting and he said it was time for the nation to do what needed to be done and to stand up to the gun lobby. another massacre, uvalde, texas. an elementary school. beautiful, innocent, second, third, fourth graders, and how many scores of little children who with just what happened —— witnessed, see their friends die as if they are in a battle field, for god's sake. it will ruin the rest of their lives. --it ruin the rest of their lives. ——it will be with them for the rest of their lives. there is a

lot we don't know yet there is a lot we do know. the parents who do not see their child again, never having them jump into bed and cuddle them, the parents who will never be the same. to lose a child is like having a piece of your soul ripped away. and there is a hollowness in your chest and you feel like you are being sucked into it and never going to be able to get out. it is suffocating. and it is never quite the same. it is a feeling shed by the siblings and grandparents and family members and the community left behind. scripture says, and jill and i have talked about this in different contexts, other

contexts, the lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit. so many crushed in spirit. so many crushed spirits. so tonight i ask the nation to pray for them and give the parents and siblings the strength in the darkness they feel right now. as a nation we have to ask, when in god's name are we going to stand up to the gun lobby? when in god's name, we do what we all know in our gut needs to be done. 300 — 31148 days, ten years since i stood up here when a high school, a great school in connecticut, where another government massacred 26 people, including 20 first graders in sandy hook

elementary school. since then there have been over 900 incidents of gunfire reported on school grounds. douglas high school, in parkland, santa fe, in texas, 0xford high school in michigan — the list goes on and on and the list grows. when you include machetes in places like movie theatres and houses of worship as we saw ten days ago at a grocery store in buffalo, new york. i am sick and tired of it. we have to act. and don't tell me we cannot have an impact on this carnage. i have spent my career as a senator and vice president, working to pass commonsense laws. we cannot and won't prevent every tragedy but we know they were can have positive impact was that when we passed the assault

rifles are banned, machetes went down. when the lot expired, machetes tripled. the idea that an 18—year—old kid can walk into a gun store and buy two assault weapons is just wrong. what in god's name do you need them for except to kill someone. they are not running in forest with vests on. it isjust running in forest with vests on. it is just sick. running in forest with vests on. it isjust sick. assault weapons make the most and largest profits. we have to stand up to the industry. most americans support commonsense laws, commonsense gun laws. i just got off my trip from asia, meeting with asian leaders and i learned of this while i was

on the aircraft. it struck me that 17 hour flight, on the aircraft. it struck me that 17 hourflight, what that 17 hour flight, what struck that 17 hourflight, what struck me was these kinds of mass shootings rarely happen anywhere else in the world. why? they have mental health problems. they have domestic disputes in other countries. they have people who are lost. these kinds of shootings never happened with the kind of frequency they happen in america. why? why are we willing to live with this carnage? why do we keep letting this happen? where in god's name is out backbone and the courage to deal and stand up to the lobbies. it is time to turn this pain into action. for every parent, for every citizen

in this country, we have to make a clear to every elected official in this country, it is time to act. it is time for those who obstruct, delay or lock commonsense gun laws, we need to let you know, we will not forget. we can do so much more. we have to do more. my prayer tonight is for those parents... lying in bed and trying to figure out... will i be able to sleep again? what do i say to my other children? what happens tomorrow? may god bless the loss of innocent lives on this sad day and may the lord be near the brokenhearted and save those

crushed in spirit, because they are going to need a lot of help, a lot of our prayers. god love you. the words of an emotional and angry president biden, this is the view from the white house, flags flying at half mast, that going across the country as the news has filtered through. david willis is with us. perhaps you could just fill out some of the details. we are keen to hearfrom some of the details. we are keen to hear from joe biden and his response but it is important to have the context of exactly what happened here. the death toll continues to grow. word of 18 children having been killed in this rampage and three adults. the

government is thought to have shot his grandmother before embarking on this rampage. it is thought that there are at this time other children who are fighting for their lives. the robb elementary school is in uvalde, a community of about 16,000 people, west of the hexagon body. 90% of the children at that school are of hispanic background. from extremely poor family. hispanic background. from extremely poorfamily. —— hispanic background. from extremely poor family. —— texas border. they were due to be graduating on friday. classes have been cancelled. confirmed that the government has been shot dead and named as salvador ramos. cbs news is that sankey was armed with a handgun and an

ar-15 was armed with a handgun and an ar—15 assault rifle together with high—capacity magazines. with high—ca pacity magazines. there with high—capacity magazines. there are unconfirmed reports that he bought these weapons locally, in or around uvalde, after or perhaps on his 18th birthday. fist after or perhaps on his 18th birthda . ~ ., after or perhaps on his 18th birthda . ~ . ., after or perhaps on his 18th birthday-— after or perhaps on his 18th birthda . ~ . ., after or perhaps on his 18th birthda . ~ . . , birthday. at an age when he is allowed to _ birthday. at an age when he is allowed to do _ birthday. at an age when he is allowed to do so. _ birthday. at an age when he is allowed to do so. at _ birthday. at an age when he is allowed to do so. at an - birthday. at an age when he is allowed to do so. at an age i allowed to do so. at an age when he — allowed to do so. at an age when he is _ allowed to do so. at an age when he is allowed - allowed to do so. at an age when he is allowed to - allowed to do so. at an age when he is allowed to do i allowed to do so. at an age j when he is allowed to do so allowed to do so. at an age - when he is allowed to do so but at an age when he has to wait to order a drink, he has to wait until 21 before that. yet asjoe wait until 21 before that. yet as joe biden wait until 21 before that. yet asjoe biden pointed out, he can walk into a local gun store and get a lethal weapon of this kind after his 18th birthday, hence president biden making that very impassioned call for tighter gun control laws in this country. we have heard that before, we have heard that before for him. he has called in the past for a ban on so—called ghost guards for the registering of all weapons of

that kind in this country, but those suggestions have been tossed out or yet to be adopted by congress which is divided between those who believe that there should be tighter gun control laws and of those who believe the right to bear arms is enshrined in the us constitution and should not be tampered with.— constitution and should not be tampered with. clear which side ofthe tampered with. clear which side of the fence _ tampered with. clear which side of the fence he _ tampered with. clear which side of the fence he falls _ tampered with. clear which side of the fence he falls on. - tampered with. clear which side of the fence he falls on. he - tampered with. clear which side of the fence he falls on. he is l of the fence he falls on. he is a seasoned and hearty campaign on gun control issues. he said, "don't tell me you cannot have an impact on this carnage". at an impact on this carnage". at a time whenjoe biden stepped into the house and there is a huge degree of hope and optimism from many gun—control campaign is that something could change stop the reality it would seem to be that is not about to happen? that's right and of course after the terrible sandy hook mexico just nearly ten years ago in which 26 people were

killed, there were again called for background checks commentator rules, a ban on assault weapons, all sorts of handwringing and calls for change that we are seeing now but they came to a live in a, those calls as measures were stymied in congress which failed to get the 60 votes needed to pass these measures into law. after that happened, then president barack 0bama called it a shameful day in washington.— called it a shameful day in washington. called it a shameful day in washinuton. ,, ., ., , ., washington. state laws can also va to a washington. state laws can also vary to a certain _ washington. state laws can also vary to a certain extent, - washington. state laws can also vary to a certain extent, i - vary to a certain extent, i think it is fair to say they are rarely looser than the laws you can find in texas.- you can find in texas. texas is ri . ht you can find in texas. texas is riaht u- you can find in texas. texas is right up there _ you can find in texas. texas is right up there as _ you can find in texas. texas is right up there as far _ you can find in texas. texas is right up there as far as - you can find in texas. texas is right up there as far as the - right up there as far as the right up there as far as the right to bear arms is concerned. we heard joe biden take aim at one of the most powerful lobby groups in this

country, the nra, the national rifle association. irony upon irony the nra is to hold its annual meeting this coming weekend in texas. 0ne annual meeting this coming weekend in texas. one of the guest speakers will be donald trump. guest speakers will be donald trum -. ., guest speakers will be donald trum, ., guest speakers will be donald trum. . , trump. that says something in it self and _ trump. that says something in it self and we _ trump. that says something in it self and we should _ trump. that says something in it self and we should reflect i it self and we should reflect also on the impact of 18 children at least who have been killed in a community as small as uvalde, this is to all intents and purposes david, it is a tiny place. intents and purposes david, it is a tiny place-— is a tiny place. absolutely, and it's about _ is a tiny place. absolutely, and it's about 18 _ is a tiny place. absolutely, and it's about 18 miles - is a tiny place. absolutely, | and it's about 18 miles west is a tiny place. absolutely, - and it's about 18 miles west of san antonio, the nearest big town in texas and this is the sort of thing which doesn't normally trouble rural or suburban communities in quite the sort of way. who could have been expecting it there of all places amongst a community, mainly made up, as a say of

impoverished pupils, hispanic pupils, people who have been perhaps in this country for quite a short time and were making new lives for themselves, first generation of americans perhaps, it really is a tragedy stopping nancy pelosi called this a monstrous attack. she is the speaker of course. she is the speaker of course. she has called for tighter gun control laws in this country but few really think it will happen. but few really think it will ha en. ., but few really think it will ha . en, ., , . happen. thanks very much indeed for that. happen. thanks very much indeed for that- we _ happen. thanks very much indeed for that. we will _ happen. thanks very much indeed for that. we will get _ happen. thanks very much indeed for that. we will get more - happen. thanks very much indeed for that. we will get more from i for that. we will get more from david in due course. also worth pointing out that in the course of the last week or so we have been reporting on ten people killed in buffalo in new york state of another mass killing and shooting in california at a church, no less stopping now, of course it is the loss of some 18 children in texas and i want to bring you some of the responses that have been coming and from various politicians and from various politicians and senior figures around the us. in washington, senator chris murphy, a democrat from

connecticut which is where the sandy hook shooting took place. he made an impassioned appeal for concrete action to prevent further violence. 1a kids dead in an elementary school in texas right now. what are we doing? just days after a shooter walked into a grocery store to gun down african—american patrons we have another sandy hook on our hands. what are we doing? there are more mass shootings than days in the year. our kids are living in fear. every single time they set foot in a classroom

because they think they are going to be next. what are we're doing? why do you spend all this time running for the united states senate, why do you go through all the hassle of getting this job, of putting yourself in a position of authority if your answer is that as the slaughter increases, as our kids run for their lives, we do nothing? very impassioned there, nobody has got a monopoly on anger and sorrow at this time in ted cruz was asked about gun control and he gave this reaction to our partners at cbs.— he gave this reaction to our partners at cbs. when there is a murder— partners at cbs. when there is a murder of— partners at cbs. when there is a murder of this _ partners at cbs. when there is a murder of this kind, - partners at cbs. when there is a murder of this kind, uc- a murder of this kind, uc politicians try to politicise it. you see democrats and a lot of folks in the media whose immediate solution is to try to restrict constitutional rights of law—abiding citizens. that doesn't work, does not affect. it doesn't prevent crime. we

know what does prevent crime which is going after felons and fugitives and those with serious mental illness. arresting them, prosecuting them when they try to illegally buy firearms. we will in the circumstances of this mass murderer but if you look to the past, we know what is effective and it is targeting the fallins and it is targeting the fallins and fugitives and the bad guys, but as sure as night follows day, you can bet there are going to be democrat politicians looking to advance their own political agenda rather than to work to stop this horrific violence and to keep everyone safe. we can now speak to former fbi special agent tracy walder. i want to get onto your expertise in just a want to get onto your expertise injust a moment but want to get onto your expertise in just a moment but you are a mum, you have got a daughter

going to elementary school and this happens, i don't know how you cope with that is yellow thank you so much for having me and it is horrific. i cannot even imagine the pain that these parents are going through and someone who served in the cia, served in the fbi, served in all this dangerous war zones and had to deal with really difficult situations, today was really difficult. i was grocery shopping actually and i got an alert on my phone there had been a shooting at a texas elementary school and i think my heartjust kind of sank. it didn't specify what school and that was such a scary moment and thank goodness my daughter is ok and it wasn't her school but i cannot even imagine what these parents are going through. from your background and your expertise in law enforcement, you heard ted cruz there saying look it is your job or your colleague's job, yourformer job or your colleague's job, your former colleague's job to go after, to target these bad guys, that is the way to deal with these issues, what you say

to that? �* ~ ., , ., to that? and i think that is a bit naive- — to that? and i think that is a bit naive. i— to that? and i think that is a bit naive. i think _ to that? and i think that is a bit naive. i think that - to that? and i think that is a bit naive. i think that is - bit naive. i think that is incredibly difficult. a lot of what we are seeing in terms of the folks that are perpetrating these kinds of attacks is that they do seem to be very young adults, 18—20 years old and they do tend to be male and they do tend to be male and they do tend to be male and they do seem to have this social media footprint that is slightly alarming but the reality is with all the hundreds of millions of people in the united states that are utilising social media and that are making post—on a daily basis, it would be incredibly difficult to be going after these so—called bad guys simply because of things that they post. you have to have a legitimate reason to, and people have the right to freedom of speech and in the vast majority of these attacks, these weapons have been purchased legally so it makes it really, really difficult to identify the bad guys. it sort

of feels like _ identify the bad guys. it sort of feels like we _ identify the bad guys. it sort of feels like we are - identify the bad guys. it sort| of feels like we are reheating arguments with her time and time again because they think joe biden gave us this horrible less of tragic events over the course of recent years, but what about greater security measures for schools, and indeed for elementary schools every bit as much as high schools and even universities? i think that that is a great question. i was actually a teacherfor question. i was actually a teacher for quite question. i was actually a teacherfor quite some question. i was actually a teacher for quite some time, i'd still am and they do teach at a university now and what is so interesting as i was thinking about the fact that i am not certain that gun legislation is going to change that the reality is we have to turn schools from what we call soft targets into these hardened targets and so even right now, district do have police officers that are allocated to them, however we just don't have the funds for all schools to have them and thatis all schools to have them and that is something that we need to think about reallocating funds so that they are not taking away from education but that they are hardening these targets because yes you have to

be buzzed in to a school, you can'tjust be buzzed in to a school, you can't just walk be buzzed in to a school, you can'tjust walk in but be buzzed in to a school, you can't just walk in but the reality is that a shooter could come in and just shoot out the glass so there are so many things that would need to be done to make schools impenetrable, it would be extremely expensive and we have to think about where we're going to get the money from do that. ~ ., , ., going to get the money from do that. ~ ., ,, ., going to get the money from do that. ~ ., ., ., ., that. would you go so far as to sa that that. would you go so far as to say that some _ that. would you go so far as to say that some sort _ that. would you go so far as to say that some sort of - that. would you go so far as to say that some sort of stepping | say that some sort of stepping up say that some sort of stepping up of a deterrence would be needed because they think there is a political reality here, isn't there? nothing is going to happen on a dramatic level at least anytime soon if ever and their arguments on both sides for maintaining the second amendment or losing it but it is not going to change in the short term and yet he sort of incidents, we are hearing more than one a day rate at the moment, theyjust go on. i rate at the moment, they 'ust no on. , ., ., , go on. i believe that the only thing we _ go on. i believe that the only thing we can _ go on. i believe that the only thing we can do _ go on. i believe that the only thing we can do right - go on. i believe that the only thing we can do right now- go on. i believe that the only thing we can do right now in| thing we can do right now in terms of taking action and that is really what biden was talking about was taking action, i don't think that action, i don't think that action is going to happen on the commonsense gun legislation. i do think that we

do need to step up security at schools and that we do have to turn them into more of a hardened target. i think we have a responsibility to our children to do that. can have a responsibility to our children to do that.- have a responsibility to our children to do that. can i 'ust ask ou children to do that. can i 'ust ask you is i children to do that. can i 'ust ask you is one i children to do that. can i 'ust ask you is one last i children to do that. can ijust ask you is one last thought . ask you is one last thought really, coming back to combining your role as a mother and your experience in law enforcement, will this change the way in which you take your daughter to is full, the way you pick her up, the way you manage your lives?- manage your lives? that is interesting. _ manage your lives? that is interesting. that _ manage your lives? that is interesting. that is - manage your lives? that is interesting. that is such i manage your lives? that is interesting. that is such a | interesting. that is such a good question and it is such a weird topic. we are open with our daughter and she does under band about school shootings in an age—appropriate way however sometimes the school has discouraged us from talking to her about that and so it is a weird situation that we are in here in the united state. i thought about maybe not sending her to school tomorrow, i would be remiss if a admitted that i

didn't. i don't think is going to change, it is not fair to her. i to change, it is not fair to her. ., to change, it is not fair to her. . ., ., . ., her. i am going to cut it a little bit _ her. i am going to cut it a little bit short _ her. i am going to cut it a little bit short because i her. i am going to cut it a i little bit short because we've got to move on but thank you very much for being with us and indeed to all of you, viewers on pbs, thank for watching. wa nt to want to talk now to an associate professor of criminology at the state university of new york and is also co— editor of thejournal of mass violence research and thank you very much indeed for joining us. i'djust thank you very much indeed for joining us. i'd just want to work a little bit around this argument of gun control. we heard joe biden once again very passionately calling for change and insisting that you can make and insisting that you can make a difference, there can be an impact. is gun control the answer?— impact. is gun control the answer? impact. is gun controlthe answer? ., ~ ., ., . answer? you know, to the credit ofthe answer? you know, to the credit of the last _ answer? you know, to the credit of the last person _ answer? you know, to the credit of the last person you _ answer? you know, to the credit of the last person you had i answer? you know, to the credit of the last person you had on, i of the last person you had on, i think guns are such a polarised and politicised issue in this country that it is very

difficult to see it moving anywhere, we haven't seen any action towards gun control in the last ten years since sandy hook corelli in the last 23 years since columbine and so my work 18 to look at what do we know about these events and how can we prevent them in ways beyond that conversation? rate, so ou beyond that conversation? rate, so you have _ beyond that conversation? rate, so you have heard _ beyond that conversation? rate, so you have heard how _ beyond that conversation? rate, so you have heard how we i beyond that conversation? rate, so you have heard how we are i so you have heard how we are covering this issue already in the immediate risk once very quickly becomes that eager debate again, doesn't it? is that the wrong way around? should we be spending more time looking at the manner in which it happened? what would be your rout? ~ , , it happened? what would be your rout? absolutely, we typically hear two common _ rout? absolutely, we typically hear two common themes i rout? absolutely, we typically hear two common themes in i rout? absolutely, we typically i hear two common themes in the immediate aftermath of one of these tragedies. 0ne immediate aftermath of one of these tragedies. one of course is about the guns and then the other is of course trying to profile this individual and see if he fits this imagined profile if you well of school shooters or mass shooters and the reality is that there is so

much variation between these individuals in terms of what they look like, in terms of what their motivation is but what their motivation is but what they do have any mac common is how they get from what is potentially a grievance and that can be real such as a loss like a job or a relationship or it could be perceived, as a result of delusional or paranoid thinking, how do they get from that to the attack and what we know is that there are these pre— attacked behaviours which are building on each other that you include leakage with that social media footprint and so what can we do to sort of intercept that and want to de—escalate these situations before they become full—blown attacks? before they become full- blown attacks? , ., , .,~ before they become full- blown attacks? , ., attacks? just to break that language _ attacks? just to break that language down _ attacks? just to break that language down a - attacks? just to break that language down a little i attacks? just to break that language down a little bit| language down a little bit essentially and i think this is an example of that where the alleged government here, on instagram i believe was repaired to have a conversation with someone because he felt he had something to say and didn't want to perhaps give the whole plot away. is your message that

anyone who sees anything like that on social media simply has got to be more aware and more ready to do some about it? because it is not easy, is it? to get a half a thought that this seems a little bit odd and then go unreported to police, for example?— for example? yeah, that is a treat for example? yeah, that is a great question _ for example? yeah, that is a great question and _ for example? yeah, that is a great question and certainlyl for example? yeah, that is a l great question and certainly it is too early and today's shooting to know the full scope of what he was or was not posting online. if we look at last week's shooting in buffalo, he was cataloguing every step he was taking towards that attack and what we know from research that has been conducted on mass shooters is most of them will leak their intentions or spell out their intentions or spell out their intentions to people either direct person—to—person or via social media or other modes of communication. most of the time they are doing that in almost all of those instances at least

one other person knows about it and at about half or roughly 60% of cases, we know that multiple people are aware of something that is going to happen so it is really important that we are encouraging and educating people about what leakage looks like, telling them why it is important to report it and then providing them the mechanisms to do so because the reality is it is not up to the average that isn't to determine whether or not a threat is credible, we want to get it into the hands of people like law enforcement and other threat assessment professionals to be able to determine the credibility of the threat and effort as an actual risk, then to put in place a management plan to make sure that those individuals can't get to that full attack. does that require political decision—making or can that be done in any case? we're talking about one area where whatever your view on gun control, you're going to share the sentiment that something like this could be worked out, that

they could be ways of improving they could be ways of improving the communication