this is bbc news. the latest headlines: the police in texas are being criticised for the way they responded to the mass shooting at a school in uvalde on tuesday. some parents say officers were too slow to confront the gunman, after he barricaded himself inside a classroom and killed 19 children and two teachers. ukraine's government says fighting in the eastern donbas region has reached a new intensity, with russia attacking more than a0 towns and storming ukrainian positions in several areas. the ukrainian president, volodymyr zelensky, says the region could become uninhabited and moscow seemed intent on reducing cities to ashes.

the american actor kevin spacey is facing five charges of sexual assault against three men. the allegations date back to when he was in the uk and relate to incidents in london and gloucestershire between 2005 and 2013. the former hollywood star has consistently denied allegations made against him. welcome to hardtalk. i am stephen sackur. uruguay is a beacon of prosperity and democratic stability and sometimes turbulent south america. a decade ago under left—wing leadership, it was also a pioneer of progressive social policies. the legalisation of cannabis and abortion rights. my guest today is president luis lacalle pou. he is a fan of unfettered free market economics. does that swim against the tide of public opinion in latin america?

president luis lacalle pou. welcome to hardtalk. mr president, what is it like being as centre—right politician on the continent that is quite clearly moving to the centre left? you are swimming against the political tide. a coalition of five parties that supported this government. you have the for the right, centre—right and ce ntreleft. and i have the bonds between these five parties. this party to the citizens and if you read the programme, you will not be able to find centre right.

the question is important because your relatively small country which depends upon strong alliances with its neighbours. not least in the trading block with argentina, paraguay and brazil. and if one looks at the wider region, you have a problem because the people you need to work with a very different politics from yours. my great—grandfather used to speak about this. stepping here and i took a picture and palmer always said, countries don't have permanent enemies or permanent friends. they have permanent interests. i have to be chief of state for all of my country and my country has lots of opinions. if i do international politics thinking about ideology,

i want go forward. i, perhaps it is getting into some trouble with their whole continent when you see some elections and i'm not a political analyst and perhaps when i go out of office, i can give much more opinions. argentina's president, fernandez, does not see economics and trade relationships in the same way that you do. in london, you desperately want to open up trade with uruguay, you want free trade deals and you may want with post—brexit britain. the problem for you is you sit in the middle of the trade bloc which has high protectionist tariffs can only operate with unanimity and you and uruguay are out of step with your

neighbours in argentina. that is an exact example of what happens to us and just what you said, brazil and argentina are not willing to open as fast as we want and as fast as we need. what he went to do about it? we, we do not accept the argument that we have to be altogether. stop by but that is the rules. the rules, you can interpret them in different ways. a few months ago, brazil and argentina took a measure that did not meet our approval and they took the measure. so, we are trying to convince both argentina, braziland paraguay and paraguay has more than 33% of our efforts and so, they are not a partner in this journey. but the trouble is, you do not have partners for your journey

and i'm looking at a quote from your colleague in argentina and he said quite plainly, if you don't like the south american trading block, you are welcome to leave. if you feel we are a burden to you, take another boat. we are in the boat. you're not in the same boat. we have to move on. and we will move on and we are trying to deal with china, turkey, the invitation of the prime minister for us was a very good moment with great britain, uk and we stepped forward. you are determined to strike a free trade deal with china because they feel that one third of all your experts by value right now goes to beijing. the problem is, argentina doesn't want the same deal with china that you want and again, i'm going to quote an argentinian official that is the minister of development who said, uruguay can make a bilateral agreement with china outside of the area or it can choose to be in the

area, it cannot do both. we are trying to move on and we are just now talking with brazilian government and foreign minister in our country and we will step forward for 37% of exports go to china and we are willing to extend and expand our markets. right now and in here. let us see. we are just now talking with brazilian government and foreign minister in our country and we will step forward for 37% of exports go to china and we are willing to extend and expand our markets. right now and in here.

is there a fear that your population 3.5 million but also economically dependent on a superpower economy like china's population well overi billion. it is an asymmetric relationship and it could be dangerous to you. let's take it this way. if the only option is selling those products for a good price to china or not selling them, what will you do? i would sell them. if we open more markets in the united states had more markets for us, united kingdom, the rest of europe, turkey, whatever, we would sell them. if i can choose, i won't put all of my exports in one country stop by but that's increasingly what is happening. if you look at should beef and timber exports, china is becoming so important to you that you are becoming dependent on beijing. it's all about economics. not politics.

economics, yes. politics, no. how can you be sure that there's going to be consistent separation? because that's the way they have acted years ago and will act the same way. look around your region. the deals that some other latin american countries have done, costa rica, a project to modernise refineries that went horribly wrong with allegations of corruption, led to arrests and hydroelectric investments that the chinese to come for ecuador. billions of dollar projects. a slight difference and we don't have chinese investments in our country. will you take them ? we do not need infrastructure? we have our own

investments and we do not need something separates china can offer. i'm sure if we go on 56, they will want to compete in 56. but our trade is exports. we trade our commodities mainly to china. on this developing relationship between your country and the chinese. i don't want to call my country small but i will accept it. it comes down to this. the president, when you it with chinese officials you take by deepening the trade relationships and signing a free trade deal, do you, at any point mentioned to them or care about china's human rights record what they are doing to the uighur muslim minority in the province. do you ever mention that? not in the same meeting. but we have meetings about different things and what we are going to say and the un, for example. you have meetings and obviously, we don't align in some places with china.

but there is geopolitics, very important geopolitics for a country like yours. you know that the way the world is working right now, the united states and china are becoming much more obvious and deeper geopolitical rivals. it seems to me that you are taking a strategic decision to deepen your relationship with china. you don't see the prospect of getting the same kind of preferential trade treatment of the united states and so, you're putting your ex, your geopolitical eggs in the basket with china. i put my eggs where i can. that's i have to do with my country to

open my country. we have the government that is not looking south. that is a problem for us. we would love to be balanced with europe and the uk. the uk for us is an excellent partner. but values don't matter to you? you are a democratically elected. now, your singular deepening your key strategic alliance of the country which, i'm sure you would not describe as a genuine democracy. of course not. one thing is commerce and the other is human rights, ideology or whatever. what's your message to the united states right now? are they losing power and influence across latin america because they will not offer you the same preferential trading arrangements, the same closeness of economic ties that china will? i don't think they don't have a view on latin america. or they think they have

a view of latin america. we exports software, our first client is united states, our second is the uk. but they think from the border in mexico, to the other areas, we have the same problems on the same needs. we are talking with us officials and will be meeting with one on thursday my country. and i think we are trying to be much more open—minded with them and we are not willing to go fast—forward to fta, the free trade agreement. the free trade agreement. i'm not in love with that. we want to sell our projects and out intellectual creations.

that is what we want and until now, this biden administration doesn't look to our country. i feel that the tide is turning. we have a meeting of the americas in the 8th ofjune. that will be a good moment to express ourself and here we are. one more thought on that in geopolitics and will go to your domestic agenda and we will go to venezuela. the effort among you and your neighbouring countries in latin america, most of them, not all of them, but most of them, has been to isolate the venezuelan government in the hope that president maduro could be removed from office. well, it hasn't happened and the people of venezuela are still suffering terrible economic and humanitarian conditions. are you now prepared to open up to venezuela and end the isolation and say, you know what? maduro is still there

and we have to work with him. i don't think maduro is willing to call free elections or willing to have a democracy in venezuela. you see him as a dictator? of course. he is. and he came here because our former government had strong relations with chavez and maduro and they had a fight and he went out and it wasn't logical to have them in it. that's another story. a few weeks ago, the biden administration got close to maduro because of things and we do not understand that move that the united states is done in these days and so, if we can really sit down at the table and hope that maduro and his regime are prepared to call to

free elections with the opposition in the same terms that they have, we'll be happy to sit down. do you see any sign of that today? no, i don't. let's talk about happening inside your country in uruguay. you perhaps put it at the centre of your campaign for the presidency getting tough on crime and security issues. you looked at the rising number of homicides, gang crime, the insecurity in uruguay and said �*i�*m going to fix it.�* and you had a of different laws under this law offers and consideration. much tougher policing, tougher sentencing in your courts. tighter drug trafficking laws. it doesn't seem to work. ijust looked at the latest homicide figures. for the first quarter of 2022, they are going up. you should look also the percentage of other crimes.

all the other crimes except homicide, went down. what happened to homicide? i don't want to do what i criticise the former governments of the gangs killing each other. because, you have typed a and type b and i don't like that. we're getting lots of pressure from the drug smuggling pressure. in the violence has risen and in this month, may, before mid may, we had more homicides than last may. we were getting down homicide and if you see the long story of five or six years ago, the results were ok until, until, these last three months. the problem is, the measures that you've taken with tougher policing, tougher prison sentences, giving more power to intelligence agencies, your opponents in uruguay say you're revealing yourself as an authoritarian.

did you not see the special reporter from the un that concluded some of the measures you wanted to take were not compliant with international human rights standards and specifically was worried about the new powers given to the police and the way in which you were putting new limits on uruguayan people's right of assembly? no. that is with the reporter said. that is not true. that is not an argument to say that people cannot unite go to into assembly. the law passed is that you cannot go on a street. you can go on strike into assemblies, but you cannot block a street.

so you cannot have a mass protest because of course, that blocks the street. only if you asked the mayor, last week, they blocked five blocks and i'm telling you about illegal blockades or, you cannot go into an industry and not let the other workers in. you also launched an attack on trade unions. that's not an attack. why in attack? because you've curbed the powers and the rights the trade unions have inside workplaces in uruguay. perhaps what we did, i believe it isjustice. yes. in between people that did not want to work and people in the same place that wanted to work. people can go on strike and people can give their opinion, but the other people were not able to come into the job and for me, that's justice. does it worry you that independent civil society, hang on, mr president... the groups

in your countries and you report says there is a backsliding of freedom of expression in this country with an increase in violations of the right to freedom of expression. under your presidency. that is not true. why are people saying these things? are they lying about you? some, maybe. we have a different view. but you have to prove those things. we are one of the strongest democracies in the world. it's notjust the locals, it's also an independent international analysts, reporters without borders, a highly respected institution. i do not respect that institution. you don't? they have demoted you from 18th

place to 40th in the press freedom index. free reporters, criticise that exact informer. i don't respect that. that is strictly a lie. before we end, you inherited something from your predecessor. and he took decisions which i'm surprised you have not reversed. one was on the legalisation of cannabis. uruguay took the lead across the world in the complete legalisation of the entire supply chain for cannabis, production through to sale. and the state is actually involved in the sale of cannabis. you came to power as a right—wing politician, you declared yourself back in 2014 saying, i am against the state producing and selling drugs and earning money like this and yet, you have done nothing to stop it. why?

november 2010, the first law that tried to pass in our country and i think in latin america for legal use of marijuana was myself. i know that but that's a specific point, at that time, you were specifically saying that there should be a legalisation of the right to grow in limited amounts of marijuana. no, not limited. i'm just talking about the entire supply chain and the state profiting from marijuana and you sit there as the president of the state which does profit from marijuana sales and you tell me that you're trying to conquer drug crime in your country and the drugs—related violence is a big problem. do you see a connection there? i see a connection and i will explain you. part of this law, i voted it, because if i think you have to be able to have

marijuana legally and not illegally, i voted that thing. second, i think that the state has not to be an implementation and selling drugs, we're putting money because we have to put some money monthly, yearly because the production is not sustainable. are you going to change the law? i will try to change some things. i don't believe in the states growing and selling marijuana. but i believe people that can have clubs we have, that they can produce their own and they can have their own circles of marijuana use and not in the states. my basic question is this. many around the un which say that uruguay has betrayed the international fight against illegal drugs by going so far down the track of not just legalising but also

in the state involved in selling marijuana. do you respect that uruguay made a mistake? i did not vote in that part of the law. did uruguay make a mistake? i will answer. i will go there. we made a mistake. that's why i didn't vote for it at that time. now, we have the system going and so, we can change it but one day, we can change it at a time. i don't agree, i read today in the morning that we betrayed the system. we have cooperation with other countries, we are working together, we exchange information, the drug smuggling is an international crime and we work with different agencies and other countries so no, we are no

longer betraying international policies. uruguay ends do not allow excesses in their politicians. our people are very hard and forceful electorally when it comes to criticising those in power. you cannot run for a second time as you can't in the constitution, but do you believe you found the right balance between your right wing politics when uruguay actually wa nts ? that's what i try to do every day that i woke up. it's not easy. but i try to do it. president luis lacalle pou, thank you very much for being on hardtalk. thank you, a pleasure. hello there.

we'll be developing a north—south split across the country into friday — that's because we've got higher pressure building in across southern areas — so that will bring in quite a lot of sunshine around — far more sunshine across the south than we had on thursday — but we maintain the windy, blustery theme across the north with further showers. that's because it's closer to this area of low pressure. but this area of high pressure will continue to push its way northwards, dominating the weather scene across much of the midlands, southwards and in towards wales. there will be some sunshine for northern ireland, southern scotland too but here, it will be windier and at times could see a few light showers, but most of the showers will be across the north and west of scotland. some of them will be quite heavy and they'll be blustery as the winds will be quite a feature here once again. the winds will be lighter further south with more sunshine — we could see 21 degrees again — otherwise, it's the low to mid teens across the north. through friday night, the showers continue for a while across scotland. the winds begin to back more northerly as we head through the night. that'll feed in a few more

showers across the far north of scotland but much of the country will be dry, but it will be a cooler air mass — temperatures in the single digits, i think, for most places. so, it's a coolerfeel into the weekend. it will be turning cooler still, thanks to these northerly winds. and by sunday, we could even see a few showers around with limited spells of sunshine. saturday, though, probably looking like being the brightest day of the weekend but even then, there'll be quite a bit of cloud being pushed down on this northerly wind across central, northern and eastern areas. i think the best of the sunshine south west england, wales, northern ireland — it's here where we'll see the best temperatures, perhaps 20 degrees in cardiff. otherwise, it's cooler across more northern and eastern areas, where we'll have more cloud as well. as we move into sunday, you can see the blue hue there trickling ever further southwards across the country. it will be turning cooler as our area of high pressure begins to drift in towards iceland. so, northerly winds, quite a lot of cloud around on sunday. that wind will be quite stiff across northern and eastern areas and the cloud thick enough for some scattered showers as well, so sunshine will be pretty limited.

probably the best of it again will be in the south—west, where we could see 16 or 17 degrees, but distinctly chilly for the time of year across more northern and eastern areas where we hold onto the cloud, as well. into next week, i think we'll have a very weak area of low pressure nearby. that'll bring further sunshine but also the risk of some showers, some of which will be on the heavy side.

this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. flowers from their classmates just three days after 19 children and two teachers died in the texas shootings. and anger from parents as to why police didn't act sooner. he says, will go back? no, we're not going to go back, i am not going anywhere until i see my baby. after the protests the change in the law. spain's historic bill making it easierfor rape victims to prosecute their attackers. ukraine warns russia's offensive in donbas could result in the region becoming uninhabited the hollywood actor and star of goodfellas ray liotta has died at the age of 67.