today at five. the headlines at five. an nhs trust at centre of concerns about avoidable deaths and injuries to babies has been told to make immediate improvement to maternity services. . , ., , services. families need to feel they are listened — services. families need to feel they are listened to, _ services. families need to feel they are listened to, that _ services. families need to feel they are listened to, that their _ services. families need to feel they are listened to, that their concerns| are listened to, that their concerns have been heard and that change is going to happen and is going to happen quickly. warnings that the cost of living crisis will continue for at least another year if oil and gas prices don't fall. the government insists its financial aid will help people cope. conservative mp paul holmes resigns as a ministerial aid following the fall out of the publication of a report on lockdown parties.

pro—russian separatist forces claim to have captured a strategic down in donbas. as tributes are paid to the 19 children and two teachers killed in a texas school shooting the national rifle association opens its annual convention in the same state. new advice from the uk health security agency, recommends that monkeypox patients could avoid contact with their pets for 21 days. the disease has affected o 106 people in the uk. it has been more that 40 people in the uk. it has been more that a0 years since abba's last tour but they finally performed on stage last night in digitalform as abbatars. and coming up on the film review. more than 35 years after the original, mark kermode will be with me to talk about the new top gun film. does he think it flies high? find out at 5.a5.

good afternoon. nottingham university hospitals nhs trust has been ordered to make significant and immediate improvements to its maternity services. concerns have been raised about avoidable deaths and injuries to mothers and babies. the care quality commission says the trust has serious staffing and cultural problems. yesterday the senior midwife donna 0ckenden was appointed to chair an independent review of maternity care at the trust, which has said it is working hard to make all the improvements necessary. a warning, you may find some details and images distressing from the start of this report. sarah andrews' baby lived forjust 23 minutes.

these photos were given to us by the family. mistakes and neglect by staff at nottingham university hospitals contributed to her death in 2019, an inquest found. she was born by caesarean section, but too late. you trust them, because that is what they are there to do. why wouldn't you trust them? it's only after that we knew something terrible had gone wrong, because she was a perfectly healthy baby and how does a perfectly healthy baby not survive? hundreds of other families have raised the alarm too. today the care quality commission said maternity services remained inadequate and issued a safety warning focused on the care of pregnant women. it was about observations not being undertaken in a timely manner so that they could identify women who were likely to deteriorate. it is only a day since

donna 0ckenden was appointed to lead a new inquiry into maternity services in the nottingham trust. this march, her report into maternity care in shropshire found that more than 200 babies may have died through failures in care over 20 years. clearly, there are really serious concerns that need very urgent action, and the trust will be aware of that from the detailed cqc report. i think that families now need to feel that they are listened to, that their concerns have been heard and that change is going to happen, and that it's going to happen quickly. the director of midwifery at nottingham university hospitals said her teams were working hard to make the necessary improvements, but recognised that they had more to do and were absolutely determined to speed up the pace of change. sarah's husband is sceptical. this situation has been allowed to get so bad that it needs some

serious thought put behind making those improvements. the reason why we are here and the reason we shout so loudly from the rooftops is because we want the service to be safe. they have more confidence in donna 0ckenden�*s inquiry. sanchia berg, bbc news. let us bring you the police press conference taking place in texas, the town where the school shooting happened a few days ago, and the director of the texas department of public safety will be speaking. in isd had confronted the subject, that did not happen, as they talked about yesterday. it was certainly stated in preliminary interviews but it doesn't reveal the type of

information and certainly police officers like anyone else, undecember stress, witnesses get it wrong sometimes but the bottom line is that officer was not on scene, not on campus but had heard the 911 call, drove immediately to the area, sped to what he thought was the man with the gun, to the back of the school, what turned out to be a teacher. and not the suspect. and doing so he drove by the suspect, who was hunkered down behind a vehicle where he began shooting at the school. 11.31. the suspect shooting in between the vehicle, is when it began, patrol vehicle gets to the funeral home. mobile shots are fired outside the school at 11.31. patrol car accelerate tos the parking lot, drives by the shooter, thatis parking lot, drives by the shooter, that is what i was talking ability, that is what i was talking ability, that was the isd officer at the time. it passed and relieved the

camera view, there are multiple shots fired. at 11.32, 11.33 is when the suspect entered the school at the suspect entered the school at the door that i am pointing to now. 11.33 the suspect begins shooting a tatty room. it is not possible to determine from the video angle we have add this point in time, we do know this, that he shot more than 100 rounds based on the audio evidence, at that time. at least, 100 rounds. he entered 11.33 or 11.33, started shoot manager the classrooms, 11.35 three police off severs tersed the same door, all three worked for the police department. they were later followed by another four, team, of evalid police

officers, three, and a county sheriff. deputy sheriff. so a total of seven officers on the scene. the three initial police officers that arrived, went to the door and two received grazing wounds at that time from the suspect. while the door was closed. 11.37 more gunfire, another lot of rounds were fired. 11.51, a policeer janet and agent started to arrive. 12.03, officers continued to arrive in the hallway, and there were as many as 19 offer sirs that the time in that hallway. at 12.15 we know that other members arrived. not the

entire bortak, along with shield, 12.21. the suspect fired again. was believed to be at the door. 11.21. law enforcement moved down the hallway. plain 50, they breached the door using keys, that they were able to get from the janitor, because both doors were locked. both of the classrooms he shot into were locked when officers arrived. they killed the suspect. at that time. and nowi they killed the suspect. at that time. and now i would like to go over the 911 time line. which i warn you it is better that i read it than you listen to it. the

caller identified i won't say her name, but she was in room 112 called at 12.03. the duration was, she whispered she is in room 112. at 12.10, she called back, and room 12 advised there were multiple dead. 12.13, again she called on the phone, again at 12.16. she is called back and said there are eight to nine students alive. at 12.19, the 911 call was made and another person, in room 111 called. i won't say her name. she hung up when another student told her to hung up. 12.21 you could hear over the call three shots were fired. at 12.36,

911 call, it lasted for 21 seconds. the initial caller called back, student child, called back. was told to stay on the line and be very quiet. she told 911 he shot the door. at 12.a3 and 12.a7 she asked 9111 to please send the police now. at 12.a6, she said she could not, that she could hear the police next door. at 12.50 shots are fired. they cowen heard and 12.51 very loud and sounds like the officers are moving children out of the room. at that time, the first child that called was outside before the call cuts off.

additional information, that we have,is additional information, that we have, is 58 total magazines in the school, 11 of those were inside the school, 11 of those were inside the school, three were on the is picts body. two in room 112. six inside room 111. five on the ground, one was in the rifle. 32 outside the school but on school property. 0ne outside the school building and 31 in the backpack he did not take into the classrooms with him. there is 15 magazines at the crash site. two at the residence for a total of 60 magazine, he has purchased and had a total of 1560 rounds of ammunition, 316 h 15 were inside the school. 1a2 of those were spent cartridges. 173 were live rounds. 922 were outside

of the school, but on school property. 22 of those were spent cartridge, 900 were live rounds, a22 were at the crash site. 22 spent, a20 of those were live rounds. there is 35 spent law enforcement cartridges total in the school. eight were in the hallway, 27 were in the classroom 111 where the suspect was killed. i mentioned i was going to go over quickly the digital time line, we talked about earlier and i wanted to correct something that was said early on in the investigation, is that he posted on facebook publicly, that he posted on facebook publicly, that he posted on facebook publicly, that he was going to kill, he was going to shoot his grandmother, secondly after that he was going to, that he had shot her and the third he was going to shoe up a school. it was on a messenger application to somebody else, that he had a

conversation with. we know that through his digital media foot print, i will go by, do it by date time, ram mass asked his sister to help buy a gun. she refused. that was september 21. he made i will avoid some of these. he had an instagram chat and it was discussed him being a school shoot, they was on february 28th of 2022. on march 1st 2022, there was an instagram he had with four people, a chat, he discussed him buying a gun. 0n had with four people, a chat, he discussed him buying a gun. on march 3rd 2022, there was another four person chat, quotations word on the street is you're buying a gun. ramos replied just bought something. ren.

0n on march 1ath, there was an instagram posting, by the subject, in quotation, ten more days. a user replied, are you going to shoot up a school or something? the subject replied, no, and stop asking dumb questions and you will see. anybody have any questions and i have agreed to stay as long as we can, to answer as many of those

questions that we can. if i can't answer it because we don't know definitively light now, i will say that. it continues to be a preliminary investigation, literally, certainly over hundreds of interviews have been conducted, we will continue to be conducted, and thousands of leads that are purr sued. not consecutively but concurrently, and thanks to our federal and local partners and we have the fbi special agent in charge, we have an atf special agent charge, we have an atf special agent charge and of course, who else have i got behind? deskses a rangers if there isn't any specifics that i might need their support on. i want to cover one thing before i go to questions. some of the questions that have been received that we have already received, and one of those is going round now there, that in fact the subject had been one of the two arrested, by the texas rangers

and local police back in 2018. that is not the case. he was not one of the individuals, in fact, we have found no links associated relationships with that investigation, it was back in 2018, the two juveniles were charged, with attempted or conspiracy to commit capital murder, there is no question we thought and had evidence, certainly the district attorney greed these juveniles was a threat to uvalde and there was a discussion at that time even the senior year of the one that was 1a years old, which would make it 2022. however, that was not the subject. questions. 0ne was not the subject. questions. one thing i failed to say, that when

we are done we have someone with us who will translate into spanish what the questions and answers are afterwards. what efforts were made to try and breakthrough... what efforts were made to try and breakthrough. . ._ what efforts were made to try and breakthrough... none at that time. wh ? breakthrough... none at that time. why? the. — breakthrough... none at that time. why? the. the _ breakthrough... none at that time. why? the. the on _ breakthrough... none at that time. why? the, the on seen _ breakthrough... none at that time. | why? the, the on seen commander breakthrough... none at that time. i why? the, the on seen commander at the time believed _ why? the, the on seen commander at the time believed that _ why? the, the on seen commander at the time believed that it _ why? the, the on seen commander at the time believed that it had - the time believed that it had transitioned from an active shooter to a barricaded subject. you transitioned from an active shooter to a barricaded subject.— to a barricaded sub'ect. you have children who _ to a barricaded subject. you have children who calling _ to a barricaded subject. you have children who calling 911— to a barricaded subject. you have children who calling 911 saying i children who calling 911 saying

please send the police, they are arrive in that classroom. there are lives at risk. we arrive in that classroom. there are lives at risk-— arrive in that classroom. there are lives at risk-_ lives at risk. we are well aware of that. wh lives at risk. we are well aware of that- why was _ lives at risk. we are well aware of that. why was this _ lives at risk. we are well aware of that. why was this decision - lives at risk. we are well aware of that. why was this decision made | lives at risk. we are well aware of. that. why was this decision made not to no in that. why was this decision made not to go in and — that. why was this decision made not to go in and rescue _ that. why was this decision made not to go in and rescue these _ that. why was this decision made not to go in and rescue these children? l to go in and rescue these children? again, the onseen commander considered it a barricaded subject and obviously, obviously based upon the information we have, there were children in that classroom that were at risk and it was in fact still an active shooter situation and not a barricaded subject. inaudible.

studio: we are struggling to hear the questions as is steven mccraw, he is going to listen to the question. he is going to listen to the question-— he is going to listen to the question. he is going to listen to the cuestion. , . ., ., question. they were aware that children were _ question. they were aware that children were live _ question. they were aware that children were live in _ question. they were aware that children were live in that - children were live in that classroom, why weren't officers notified of that and if that is the case why didn't they take action, thatis case why didn't they take action, that is the question. i will go back to the answer, right now, is that it was considered 0k, to the answer, right now, is that it was considered ok, the decision was made on the scene, i wasn't there, but the same point in time, you know, a decision was made this was a barricaded subject, situation, there was time to retrieve the keys, and wait for a tactical teem with the equipment to breech the door and take on the subject at that point. that was the decision, that was the

thought process at that particular point in time. what can you tell parents? there was 19, like i what can you tell parents? there was 19. like i said — what can you tell parents? there was 19, like | said 19 — what can you tell parents? there was 19, like i said 19 officers _ what can you tell parents? there was 19, like i said 19 officers in _ 19, like i said 19 officers in there, there was plenty of officers to do whatever needed to be done with one exception, the incident commander in side believe they needed more equipment and more officers to do a tactical breach at that point. that is why bortac was requested. their executed, they made a dynamic entry an went in and of course... hey with a bit of hindsight, a hey, stand by, stand by, hey, stand by. right. i got it.

ok. hey, from the benefit of 0k. hey, from the benefit of hindsight where i am sitting now, of course it was not the right decision it was the wrong decision, there is no excuse for that, but again, i wasn't there, but i am telling you from what we know, we believe there should have been an entry as soon as you can. when there is an active shooter the rules change, it is no longer, 0k, it is no longer barricaded subject. we don't have time. you don't worry about parameter, texas embraces active shooter training, active shooter certification and that doctrine requires officer, we don't care what agency you are from. you don't have to have a leader on the scene. every officer lines up, stacks up, finds where the rounds are being lined up and keep shooting until the subject is dead, period.

inaudible. how can we keep this from happening again? how did an 18—year—old kid buy a $5,000 weapon? he again? how did an 18-year-old kid buy a $5,000 weapon?— again? how did an 18-year-old kid buy a $5,000 weapon? he used a debit card, but buy a $5,000 weapon? he used a debit card. but your— buy a $5,000 weapon? he used a debit card, but your point, _ buy a $5,000 weapon? he used a debit card, but your point, very _ buy a $5,000 weapon? he used a debit card, but your point, very expensive - card, but your point, very expensive and a dab bit card is not a cred ratty card which means he had money in the bank. hundreds of, thousands of more leads are being looked at because we haven't answered all the question, we haven't got to the why, we know the individual was into cyber gaming and group gaming, we havea lot cyber gaming and group gaming, we have a lot of questions out there and we are seeking answers but we

have an obligation, we will continue to update you. the patrol age gents... —— agents. studio: we are watching a press conference from uvalde. this is steve mccraw, who is from the texas department of public safety, answering questions from people in the crowd who clearly are agitated about the police action, at the school, where salvador ramos, the 18—year—old gunman on tuesday killed 19 children and two teachers. he has been going through a detailed description of the time line of what

happened at the school, just to give people an idea of the actions that the police agencies took, the officers on duty that day, because there has been criticism about how they approached this situation, he has been explaining how different the protocols are when you have what is called an active shooter situation, as opposed to a gunman who has barricaded himself into a room. let us carry on listening. he ma be room. let us carry on listening. he: may be intended to do, i read the time line based upon the chats he had. so we need everyone, we have a threat to life like that, to take it seriously and report it. because ultimately this is tragic, what do you tell the parents of 19 kids or the families of two teachers?

like i said before, first of all, when it comes to an active shooter, you don't have to wait for tactical. plain and similarling you have an obligation, what i know now, it was an active shooter, you can't transition, keep in mind the doctrine, you can transition from an active shooter situation to a barricaded subject or a barricaded with hostage subject, but, but, if shooting continues, you have any reason to believe there is individuals alive in there you have an o obligation to move back to an active shooter posture and everyone at the door. studio: apologies you can't hear

those questions, i think steven mccraw is having difficulty. he explained the protocol in texas is when you have a live shooter situation police are meant to respond with fire, until the suspect, the gunman is dead. let us carry on listening in now he is anning. someone said what do you tell the parents? the bottom line is, orsomeone tell the parents? the bottom line is, or someone talked about when there is kids in the room, why wasn't there an entry, because it wasn't there an entry, because it was believed, like said at the time, that, that the subject, was stationary, barricaded, there was no risk to other children, again, retrospect, from where i am sitting right now, clearly there was kids in the room. clearly, 0k, they are at risk and by the way when you go back to shooting, there may be kids that are injured, 0k, they may have been shot but injured. it is important for life—saving purposes to get there and render aid.

he was not on campus. why? again, we will have all— he was not on campus. why? again, we will have all those _ he was not on campus. why? again, we will have all those answers down the road, 0k? ok? inaudible. first, first i want to say that one of the officers were there, early, there was four of them, and they

immediately began evacuating the school, and did that throughout the process, so, they keep in mind, so that was going on, and what do i say to the parents? i don't have anything to say to the parents other than what happened. we are not here to defend what happened, we are here to defend what happened, we are here to report the facts so they have the facts. iam i am sorry? sorry? i don't have any information on that. one second, though, however we did a 0ne second, though, however we did a review of what dps officers what they did and looked at those.

are the parents owed an apology from somebody? if i are the parents owed an apology from somebod ? :, :, , somebody? if i thought it would help i would apologise. _ i would apologise. but, hey, let me say this, let me say this. when you go back to the time line, again, i want to go back and i'm not defending anything but you go back to the time line, there was barrage, hundreds of rounds were pumped in in four minutes into the two classrooms than anything firing after was sporadic and at the door. so the belief is there may not be anybody living any more and that the subject is now trying to keep law enforcement at bay or entice them to come in. i understand that. i reported that.

that. inaudible. i would like to answer the first one, for the second one i don't have. the first one each door can lock from the inside and where both doors were locked from the inside. so the subject went in, he locked the door, he came out one time into the door, he came out one time into the hallway, went back in and locked the hallway, went back in and locked the door, at the time the officers went in, both doors were locked. they got a key from the janitor, and used it. i don't have that answer but we are looking at it right now.

thank you. forget how i'm doing, what about the parents? the parents of those children? forget about me. we take an oath to uphold the law and protect people and anytime something tragic like this happens, we want to know why it happened if we want to know why it happened if we can do better next time. it is a call it like it is. it is tragic and ideally we would have been able to identify the skies the suspect and addressable for even thought about

attacking on the 2ath. we are looking at other people, absolutely, anyone who has been in contact with them or the links or associations who may have known something and may have been involved in some chat room gaming along with them. there's nobody there were not going to talk to them look at and i can assure you that this district attorney is very proactive and very concerned about this and any evidence that we bring to words that someone was an accomplice or enabler or did something they should not of or did something they should not of or a violation of the law that meets the probable standards, no doubt will take care of this we had two juveniles plots a capital murder at the school.

yes. i cannot tell you with certainty but more than one survived. from the texas public safety department understandably distressed and upset when he was talking about those people who were killed in the 19 children who express concern, condolences and the teachers who died in also emphasising that in the

process of this investigation, they're trying to find out what went wrong and how this young man, this 18—year—old come to be in possession of this weapon and also what was he doing in those weeks up to the shooting and who was in contact with was a social media activity in a below to give them an idea of what his story was. we know what happened but we do not know why. but it's difficult for us to hear but he's back at the podium and everyone listed in. . , :, :, , listed in. survey, one of the things is, what listed in. survey, one of the things is. what was _ listed in. survey, one of the things is, what was the _ listed in. survey, one of the things is, what was the access _ listed in. survey, one of the things is, what was the access in - listed in. survey, one of the things is, what was the access in that - is, what was the access in that regard but also, there's other access points as well. let me say one thing. one thing i did not point out, 0k? when we got going into

these rooms, right here there is a restaurant in between and like santa fe, the classrooms are separated but they are connected. so, you can move back and forth between those two classrooms. for that question will be answered but i am not going to share the information we have right now. i don't have the detailed interview right now. not that i'm aware of, no.

i know two did and they did not die. the bottom line is, we report what happened. the back door was propped open, it was not supposed to be propped open comments was to be locked and the teacher that went back for her cell phone, propped open again. well, first of all, we welcome the fbi and there's a reason why there behind me right now. the play a vital role and again, this is about finding facts and reporting facts as

quick as we can it's not about trying to defend or trying to assess or even be hypercritical. it's about the facts and ensuring that whatever he learned on the facts is will be as transparent as we can adjust to the media but the parents and the public and the citizens in texas. the chief of police that consults independent school district is the commander. it is his school, he is the chief of police. again, i'm not going to discuss when there is an ongoing criminal investigation. again, i'm not going to get into that.

the chief of police, he was convinced and again, i want to go back and say he was convinced at the time that there was no more threat to the children and that the subject was barricaded and that they had time to organise with the proper equipment to go and in the subject is already hit three officers and two officers and answer the final question, another agent was grazed as well but no police officer was seriously injured. yes. yes, they did. iwent yes. yes, they did. i went through the timeline before where he continued to shoot periodically, sporadically. the last, i'm sure i went through it but the last time

that the shot right before the entry was, he shot at 1221. so, not of the children, we don't know yet. we believe it was at the door is what he fired at. believe it was at the door is what he fired at— believe it was at the door is what he fired at. . , , ,., ., he fired at. the texas department of pubuc he fired at. the texas department of public safety — he fired at. the texas department of public safety there _ he fired at. the texas department of public safety there just _ he fired at. the texas department of public safety there just speaking - he fired at. the texas department of public safety there just speaking to l public safety there just speaking to an understandably agitated crowd and uvalde texas and going to the timeline of the shooting that happened and uvalde on tuesday and saying that the police on duty that they got it wrong for not breaking into the classroom where salvador was hiding because they mistook that there were no children inside and there were no children inside and there were no children inside and there were children inside, 19 of them and two of their teachers died in that shooting. we will go back to

that if he says more that we would like to repeat to you. breaking news. the conservative mps select committee chair has said no confidence following the release of the gray report. yet rated to read the gray report. yet rated to read the civil service full report and to lock down parties before making up his mind but he said he found the prime minister possible explanations lacked credibility in this on the screen now is a copy of the statement of the publication of the report and at the end they say trust is the most important quality of these events and undermines trust notjust in the office of the prime minister but the political process itself. to rebuild the trust and move on, a change in leadership is required as bob nealjoins us. thank you very much for being with us on bbc news. i have you submitted this

letter today? in bbc news. i have you submitted this letter today?— letter today? in the statement, i wanted to listen _ letter today? in the statement, i wanted to listen to _ letter today? in the statement, i wanted to listen to the _ letter today? in the statement, i wanted to listen to the prime - wanted to listen to the prime minister possible explanations that he gave and to reflect on those and also reflect upon the feedback i've had for many constituents, members of my local constituency and conservative association as well. what was it in particular those in the report that his ledger to this conclusion? i the report that his ledger to this conclusion?— the report that his ledger to this conclusion? ~ : :, , , conclusion? i think clearly, these were not isolated _ conclusion? i think clearly, these were not isolated incidents. - conclusion? i think clearly, these l were not isolated incidents. there was of course of conduct of behaviour which broke the rules over a period of some months, it wasjust a period of some months, it wasjust a one off. it's clear that there was a one off. it's clear that there was a culture in which the people who are responsible for setting the rules weren't keeping to the rules of the expected of winners to adhere to. i don't think anyone can have double standards because those double standards because those double standards because those double standards as i said have

eroded trust and local government election campaigns last month, normally conservative voters felt they were disillusioned and at loss faith in the prime minister. and i don't want that to continue and i don't want that to continue and i don't want that to continue for the conservative party and i don't think it'll happen for the general politics either. it is matter which party that one is and, but people can trust the politicians to be straight with them, even if they don't agree and i don't think that sadly the prime minister who if i had a personal good relationship will be able to recover that trust now. why has apologised a number of occasions, he, if he was saying anything an ounce of commons was not true, we're to hearfrom anything an ounce of commons was not true, we're to hear from the committee with or not he did mislead parliament. how widely shared is your view among your fellow mps in the conservative party, given that many of them are single, we've dealt

with this now need to move on because they're bigger things such as the cost of living crisis? i made the decision for myself, i'm not part of a campaign group am not trying to persuade anyone else about what the decision will be. i have weight of the evidence and i came to the view that i don't think the suggestion of the prime minister was unaware of rule breaking was credible. i don't believe he was not aware of the sum of what was going on and that background, i think the consequences are that he should stand down because the trust is been damaged and that is where i'm coming from as far as that is concerned. in other colleagues are unhappy but it is for them to come to this decision about how best they operate and i've made my assessment of the evidence is presented in listen to what i believe are the views of my constituents and what i think is the proper way for the long—term good.

residing today as an aid, a political aide in the home office were also hearing that ministers who bring standard rules and a minor way will not be expected to resign or face the sack under new government guidelines. what is your view of the decision? mr; guidelines. what is your view of the decision? y .., , , guidelines. what is your view of the decision? g , _ , , decision? my constituency surgery earlier on today. _ decision? my constituency surgery earlier on today. i _ decision? my constituency surgery earlier on today. i don't _ decision? my constituency surgery earlier on today. i don't think - decision? my constituency surgery earlier on today. i don't think that| earlier on today. i don't think that is a wise move and certainly not a good time to be doing this. it is not likely to restore trust either. so, that is not going to make the situation any better.— situation any better. your fellow mps and not _ situation any better. your fellow mps and not come _ situation any better. your fellow mps and not come forward - situation any better. your fellow mps and not come forward and i situation any better. your fellow - mps and not come forward and taking steps like this and eve had the met office reports some days ago and sue 0ffice reports some days ago and sue gray's report. as a lot of people saying they are unhappy with the standards in downing street in whitehall but not a lot of response, in many ways. hat