tv The Media Show BBC News May 28, 2022 12:30am-1:01am BST
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this is bbc news, the headlines. police in texas have admitted they took too long to storm a classroom where a gunman was carrying out a mass shooting on tuesday. officials admitted they thought no more pupils were at risk at the school in uvalde. the governor has denied the state's loose gun the national rifle association is holding its annual convention in houston. donald trump is due to address the convention in person. protests have been held outside the venue. donald outside the venue. trump said he believed evil donald trump said he believed evil like the texas massacre was a reason to arm not disarm
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law—abiding citizens. moscow's advance in eastern ukraine is continuing, russian backed forces are getting more ground close to a strategic town in northeastern donbas. and are close to encircling several important cities. this governor has warned that ukrainian forces may have to retreat to avoid being captured. that is it for me. my headlines at the top of the hour. my headlines at the top of the hour. now on bbc news, the media show. hello and welcome to the media show. we are going to talk about partygate in this week's edition because sue gray's report or investigation into what happened in downing street during various lockdowns is now out. the prime minister has been responding, the media, of course, is covering it. and we are going to be exploring the role the media has played in this story from its beginning in early december, all the way through to this week of the report coming out.
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but before we get to that, we are also going to speak to anneka rice because the very famous format challenge, anneka is coming back, it's been off our screen for 30 years but that period of time is now over. and anneka rice is with us. hi, anneka. great to see you. and it's very exciting for us because i understand the media show has a small part in the come back. it does because, i love the media show and i was listening to amol rajan and talking to ben frow channel five, it was a whole half—hour dedicated to him. i sat there thinking, "this is a man who "runs on instinct and spontaneity." and i hadn't come across that sort of spark for quite a long time. i recognised it because when i first took challenge 30 years ago to the bbc michael grade had that spark, because i just went with a whole new format and he just went, "i trust you, go and make it. and you know, that is rare. and so i recognised something.
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so someone put ben and i together and the rest is history. so thank you. well, i'll pass the thanks on to amol. i can't take the thanks on behalf of myself. i got lots of questions about the return of challenge, anneka. we will get to that a little later in this edition of the media show. great to have you on it. but we are going to start with party gate because the sue gray report is out, borisjohnson tell the press conference, he held the press conference, he also made a statement in the house of commons earlier and responded to questions from mps from both sides of the floor. let's explore where the media fits into the story. was stephen glover, a columnist at the daily mail, david yellen, former editor of the sun, who now runs the communications firm kitchen table partners. and ayesha hazarika the broadcaster and journalist and a former adviser to some senior labour party politicians. stephen, i wonder if i could start with you. how do you assess the evolution of this story? well, i think it is a triumph for old—fashioned
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journalism. i'd also like to talk about beer gate. that's the story involving keir starmer and his alleged antics in durham. on the one hand, we got the daily mirror, which basically as you say, broke the party gate story. and on the other hand we've got the daily mail which pursued the beer gate story for weeks without anybody really taking any much notice. and it seems to me a good example of how the partisan press can work very well in a democratic way. a lots of people say, well, the press is to partisan and too extreme, we need more evenhanded, more fair—minded newspapers. but actually, it was only because the daily mirror so hated borisjohnson that it went after the story with such energy. and it was only because the mail had similar feelings about keir starmer that it slogged away at that story for weeks or even longer before the rest of the
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media took it up. so, i think it's a good example of how newspapers by being partisan, as long as they have some sort of balance, one paper here, another paper balancing it, it can actually serve the democratic process surprisingly well. ayesha, do you agree with that? that the partisan nature of some parts of the actually a crucial engine to this kind ofjournalism? i think i'd probably take a different view. i think good journalism is not about being partisan. good journalism is, as stephen referred, that old—fashioned type of journalism which is taking the time, building up good contacts, putting the work in, checking out that everything corroborates and of course we saw pippa crerar do a fantasticjob on this. but also barnard castle which she worked on with theguardian. on with the guardian. i mean, itn news
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is not seen as a partisan organisation. and paul brand has done a fantasticjob. i think what it points to is the fact that i think number ten have been a bit shocked. because i think there are sections of the press, particularly on the right who have been very supplicant to number ten. i think they have been quite shocked at the tenacity with which a lot of these papers and broadcasters have stuck with this story. i'm afraid i absolutely push back against some false equivalence, 120 fines at downing street versus one beer in durham, which the police did investigate. they said, nothing to see here, let's see what they see. i think this is the daily mail kind of collaborating with number ten to push out this faults equivalence line. which i don't think washes with the public. stephen, i'm interested to ask you about that. do you feel the mail is collaborating with
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number ten are simply putting across... actually, it was the mail last year that broke all the stuff about wallpaper gate in number ten, which was obviously embarrassing to borisjohnson. that was the stuff about expensive wallpaper and who paid for it. now, i think the daily mail is perfectlyjustified in going after keir starmer. and clearly there's been some deceit there. angela rayner wasn't present as it turned out to be. i think they'll make out what they want. if you're right that there is no equivalence and people say, well fine, it's much more serious what's happening in numberten. actually, i think quite a lot of people are interested about what happened. and the fact that durham police have reopened the case and keir starmer is obviously very exercised about it. people will decide how important it is. david yellen, let's bring you in. you once edited the sun. you now running a communications firm. i wonder how you view, first of all the work the media is done on the story but also how it fits into the political persuasions
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of the different papers. look, i think there . no doubt whatsoever that a good chunk of what we used to call fleet street hasl been enforcing, has been acting |as enforcer for downing street. | there is no question about it. the daily mail is of course - much more professionally run then downing street. and it's extremely i good at what it does. the fact is, what i came to. this morning is that nine out of 14 splashes in the two weeks up to the beginning of this - were on keir starmer. nine out of 14? you know, that is l absolutely, it was a brilliantly put together _ campaign and they got what they wanted. by the way, i think- wallpaper gate was probably under the previous editor. sort of the same newspaper, isn't it? no, it's a different newspaper.
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but yeah, i mean, | it's the same title. just on monday we had the daily mail- the first paragraph was, . sue is playing politics over partygate. which borisjohnson's allies claimed last - night. which she wasn't. and stephen, we should say you are not here as a representative of the daily mail, you're here as a columnist of the daily mail. but i wonder if you at any point have felt uncomfortable with the point of emphasis, how much emphasis has gone on keir starmer in durham versus say, not putting the photo that itv news had obtained of boris johnson having a drink with the most papers put that on the front page earlier this week and the daily mail didn't. yeah. as i say, looking back over the last year i think the daily mail has given boris a pretty hard time and lots of cases.
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i'm just in the middle of writing a column giving him a pretty hard time. at the very beginning, to answer your question specifically, at the beginning of keir starmer when the mail started i thought well, you know, this isn't going anywhere. and it went on and on and on. and in the end they stood it up. they made a story and the truth of that is that it was then reported by the bbc and by other media. and if that is some thoughts on how the mail has approach this story, david, you've already alluded to how the government has approached it. i wonder how you assess the governments media strategies and sis began in early december. i think what's really interesting about how the government has handled it is they've mishandled it right from the beginning. and i'm thinking today, why did they do that? because of course we wouldn't be here today with all this collateral damage being done to borisjohnson's reputation, the reputation of number ten as an institution,
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the cockpit of government and british politics, the damage done to the broader conservative party. if right at the outset borisjohnson in number ten had said, "you know what? we did, fess up, we did have a bit of a gathering, really sorry, i hold my hands up, we should have done it, we had a word with everybody, we are deeply, deeply sorry. "ironically, and i never thought these are words which i would utter, gavin williamson sort of played it right. because he was in that position as well. he had been caught having a bit of a gathering. he said sorry, the world moved on. but i'm just wondering now, perhaps number ten at that point did know that it wasn't a one—off party. now we see the scale of it. so what they have sought to do is to mislead then double down. i think this is the problem and then they got on the attack to keir starmer. let's clear up a couple of things, borisjohnson said he never knowingly misled the house of commons indeed anyone else.
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he said so today that he didn't appreciate the scale of what happened inside downing street, he said today that he has been surprised by some of things that he's learned. i appreciate you don't agree with that but it's important we point that out for you agree with ayesha that the government said yeah, we made a mistake earler on? i'm not entirely convinced that would've kept the daily mirror and others of its case. well, let me turn that . around, the question is, why did the press office feel that he was untouchable? . why did they feel that... many of these - parties written with these people. one celebrating the departure of its leader to _ go off and be deputy editor of my old paper, the sun. i ask yourself, - why would you feel untouchable in that situation? because you got the prime i minister as your boss allowing you to do whatever you want and your bosshasl just gone off to be editor of one of the papers that is not going to write l about... the coming together of- the political and media class
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has created in untouchable grow of people _ not steve's colleagues at the mail, i'm - not... i'm talking about those people, it was like that until— tont blair's time, alastair- campbell and angie were close to the sun, close to be when i was editing but not like this. i it's got so close frankly that it's dangerous and| anti—democratic, i think. and steven, i don't have to go in a minute not because you've got some writing to do. i would be interested, i'm sure people that are listening would be interested, the process of producing a column for the daily mail, do you simply write it, send it off and go here you go. or is there a two intro with the editor or one of the editors below him about the angle that you're taking on the story? normally, in the morning i propose a couple of ideas to a features editor and then she speaks with the editor and the choices made between my two ideas and may be three on some occasions. and then i might talk to the editor if i feel
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that he's got something to say or i might learn something of what he says or i might not. i've spoken to him this afternoon about a column i'm writing about borisjohnson and i take it much more critical view of borisjohnson then he does. he's perfectly happy about that. when did we get see it? tomorrow morning. all right, we will watch out for it. we'll let you go, we really appreciate you joining us for that i know it's been a busy day and all newsrooms around the country. that stephen glover writing a another column as he often does for the daily mail you can read that in tomorrow's edition. david, let me explore this a bit more because you are saying that the relationship between certain newspapers and number ten is too close. but there might be some people think it, hold on a minute, papers like the sun, even when you are in charge of it made a point of getting close to people in power because in many ways it made sense. what is so different here? well, people did say.
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that and they may have had a point because at the time | i was a supporter and i thought| it was great because i. thought they were good. there is a hypocrisy there, it'sjust- straight put forward. newspapers support different parties. . i used to have dinner a lot with paul david when i - was editing the sun at least| twice a year, just the two of us. and i can remember many- times him saying to me, you are far too close to these people you are far too close to tony| blair, you should'nt . be at downing street. the days i look at the mail and i think, home, i've- never known a paper at - the moment that is closer to a prime minister then the daily mail. - i'm not sure quite why that is. it's clear there's a lot - of independence, people like steve has a stature where he could say exactly what he i likes. put it this way, if this - was a labour prime minister hit put it this way, if this _ was a labour prime minister hit was a labour prime minister he'd of gone months ago. he would not, - he or she would not survive having the tabloids and the telegraphs and the times l
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banging on. it's only because they know they can rely on that - support. the mail tomorrow will be more professional and - supporting borisjohnson| because they better at it. but it is also, you're saying if a labour prime minister were in this situation, think it is worth pointing out that borisjohnson is an unusual politician, i don't mean that in the judgment way, it simply true that he proves more resilient in moments of pressure that many other politicians and that's not necessarily whether he is conservative or labour, it's more particular to his character. ayesha, can i bring you in here? this is a question we often explore in the media show, the degree to which the media actually influences politics or simply mirrors it. we know from lots of boris johnson supported today sated look, mrjohnson is apologise, time to move on to focus on other challenges with up who do you think decides if we all do move on, does the media decide that? i move on, does the media decide that? 4' ., ., , that? i think the media does have a big — that? i think the media does have a big role _ that? i think the media does have a big role to _ that? i think the media does have a big role to play - that? i think the media does have a big role to play in - have a big role to play in shaping the anatomy of a story
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and the media in this case have been incredibly dull guard with this story because there is a chance that this story could have ebbed away. butjournalist to keep pushing it. the other thing which is interesting about the story is that clearly, it's a symbol of how dysfunctional downing street has become. because i worked there in the press office, i worked under gordon brown, i worked under gordon brown, i worked under gordon brown, i worked under tony blair and there was a real... first of all we were not having level of party and, it wasn't like freshers' week what i was working at downing street for the secondly, we were a very tight team right from the cleaning staff to the people working in the gym some of the civil service, the special advisers cupit to the prime minister, it was a really tight ship. the fact that all these leaks have been coming out in a sustained way tells you that number ten is not a happy ship. we know that because of all the
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personnel changes and there has been like stormy clouds over downing street for quite some time. but what i think is true is that there is an element of partisanship but i think it's too lazy to say that. i think most of the broadcasters do not have a particular agenda. they are looking at this because it is a legitimate story to prove. i want to ask about the broadcasters and in particular bbc at a moment. david, help me out with some context, ayesha is saying the volume of leads coming out suggest a broader dysfunction a number ten. but the volume of leaks has it really outstripped the kind of leaks we would've seen during any other political scandal? yes, i think it has. besides panorama _ yes, i think it has. besides panorama would be an example of that _ panorama would be an example of that there — panorama would be an example of that. there seems to be in sue gray's — that. there seems to be in sue gray's report touches on this, a generation of very entitled people — a generation of very entitled people in and around downing street — people in and around downing street. there all the same kind
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of pepple. _ street. there all the same kind of people, same school, same universities. and that's very dangerous because they seem to thihk_ dangerous because they seem to think they have a right to be there — think they have a right to be there and don't respect the fact— there and don't respect the fact that _ there and don't respect the fact that they are in the most extraordinary place. that is the prime ministers responsibility. he doesn't know anybody— responsibility. he doesn't know anybody that didn't go to those schools — anybody that didn't go to those schools or did he go to the university. of course they are all tihed — university. of course they are all lined up. i think... university. of course they are all lined up. ithink... i�*m all lined up. ithink... i'm sure the _ all lined up. ithink... i'm sure the prime _ all lined up. ithink... i'm sure the prime minister. all lined up. ithink... i“n sure the prime minister would say he does know people who didn't go to those schools you alluded to laura kunz berg additional panorama which broke us up bbc, she spoke to number ten staffers can assume who had attended these gatherings detailed in sue gray's report. i wonder both of you ayesha and david, what your assessments are of how the bbc has fit into this story, some people reacted to laura's panorama and said these are significant screws but actually through the predicate story many of these
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groups have been coming via itv news or the mirror. should we read anything into that, ayesha? it's interesting ayesha ? it's interesting looking ayesha? it's interesting looking at the way the bbc has covered this in the mood towards the bbc. i think a lot of animosity goes to back to barnard castle when the story broke about dominic cummings and laura goons berg and the bbc received quite a lot of criticism for reporting sources close to dominic cummings x y z. there was a huge accusation of the bbc being a stenographer for the bbc beta stenographer for the bbc beta stenographer for dominic cummings and people at the heart of downing street. some of that is unfair, because of your lobby is some of that is to get the information to get it out there. you not to make an editorial decision you are there and then people can make them myself. i do think it was important for the bbc to do this panorama investigation. i
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think that has redeemed the bbc and a lot of peoples lives. before i bring you in, first of all panorama is available on iplayer of people like to watch it. we did invite laura kuenssberg to come on the media show but she wasn't able to. david, what are your thoughts of how the bbc is taken on the story? i of how the bbc is taken on the sto ? ~ of how the bbc is taken on the sto ? ,, ,.,, . story? i think post-brexit when the bbc was — story? i think post-brexit when the bbc was accused _ story? i think post-brexit when the bbc was accused of being l the bbc was accused of being unfair— the bbc was accused of being unfair because it balance truth and untruth and i think there's and untruth and i think there's a lot— and untruth and i think there's a lot of— and untruth and i think there's a lot of truth or not. i think the — a lot of truth or not. i think the bbc_ a lot of truth or not. i think the bbc has been going through a transition of leadership in the last— a transition of leadership in the last few months. i think that's— the last few months. i think that's part of it. i think they've _ that's part of it. i think they've been very steady as she goes _ they've been very steady as she goes type — they've been very steady as she goes type of thing. i think the bbc looks a little bit... it's the — bbc looks a little bit... it's the only— bbc looks a little bit... it's the only channel out there that's— the only channel out there that's now completely unbiased, you flicked between them and you flicked between them and you go— you flicked between them and you go back to the bbc and it looks— you go back to the bbc and it looks slightly less exciting because it's unbiased. i think
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laura's — because it's unbiased. i think laura's show last night was excellent, actually an interesting when people have -ot interesting when people have got stories to tell they will io got stories to tell they will go to— got stories to tell they will go to the bbc because they'd also — go to the bbc because they'd also be — go to the bbc because they'd also be protective and will be fair — also be protective and will be fair. �* , , . also be protective and will be fair. �*, , ., ., ,, also be protective and will be fair. �*, , ., ., ~ fair. ayesha, david, thank you very much _ fair. ayesha, david, thank you very much for— fair. ayesha, david, thank you very much for sharing - fair. ayesha, david, thank you very much for sharing your- very much for sharing your thoughts. you'll both stay with us but were going to do a pretty sharp turn. away from uk politics and downing street and morgan talk about this. music i know what i'm to be humming for the next two hours. channel five is returning challenge and i guide to british tv screen 30 years after the original series first aired. she is with us and she's been telling us for some extent it came after the head of channel five is on the media show a couple of years ago. good to have you back with us. i'm trusting you're going to be using the theme music again, you not changing that. that
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using the theme music again, you not changing that.- you not changing that. that is been the wonderful _ you not changing that. that is been the wonderful thing - you not changing that. that is i been the wonderful thing about working with ben. hejust been the wonderful thing about working with ben. he just wants it analogue, doesn't want to go digital on this. when we first had a zoom chat about it i didn't even get my audio screen up didn't even get my audio screen up and hejust didn't even get my audio screen up and he just went, don't worry, i rememberwhat up and he just went, don't worry, i remember what you look like. it was great because it wasn't about what i look like, he just wanted the show. we spoke for a long time about the legacy of it and he was very interested, it has been my lives were, all those projects are still going strong and most of them on very involved with. it was a breath of fresh air. you alluded to it at the beginning, when i heard them on the media show and ijust got back i caught that in distinctiveness and spontaneity of him. he is someone who will just go with an idea. that is good old—fashioned producer choice, which we used to have a
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nice debate programmes in the 80s and 90s whereby you made a programme because you are trusted to make that programme by the broadcaster, michael granger said by the broadcaster, michael grangersaid ok, go by the broadcaster, michael granger said ok, go off and make it. never had any contact with bbc. withjust deliver the programme each week and that was it. where is now there is almost a committee stage of focus groups and i think been in the end has been lovely. irate in the end has been lovely. we no in the end has been lovely. we go together like this. it's coming to channel five a negatively one—piece suit that person excited is ayesha because we talking about this earlier. i because we talking about this earlier. ., ,., . because we talking about this earlier. ., . ., earlier. i am so excited about this reboot. _ earlier. i am so excited about this reboot. when _ earlier. i am so excited about this reboot. when i _ earlier. i am so excited about this reboot. when i was - earlier. i am so excited about i this reboot. when i was growing up this reboot. when i was growing up i absolutely love challenge, anneka — up i absolutely love challenge, anneka. you are an icon and i love _ anneka. you are an icon and i love you — anneka. you are an icon and i love you zipping in and out of all the — love you zipping in and out of all the helicopters with their jumpsuit and all your headphones and things like that — headphones and things like that. �* . , headphones and things like that. �* ., , . that. i'm really excited about it. i'm that. i'm really excited about it- i'm very — that. i'm really excited about it. i'm very pleased - that. i'm really excited about it. i'm very pleased ayesha. l that. i'm really excited about l it. i'm very pleased ayesha. to be honest, what we will launch date this week i put up a very
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childish tweet which i thought we get about three people going oh that's interesting, itjust took off in a way i wasn't prepared for. but it had your sentiment bear, exactly what people are feeling, there's such an absolute rush of expection and nostalgia. i think we owe it to that audience and the youngers coming through because now people your age will have kids and they are watching it and so life goes on. to sorta keep it as it was. actually at the end of the day it's not about and getting someone to be my presenter, it's about those communities, the power of the collective, it's harnessing the power of television to make a difference, that's what it's about. �* . , difference, that's what it's about. . , ,, about. and the crickets guess the answer — about. and the crickets guess the answer to _ about. and the crickets guess the answer to this _ about. and the crickets guess the answer to this question i about. and the crickets guess. the answer to this question but i'll ask it anyway. are you nervous, you don't sound nervous?— nervous, you don't sound nervous? ., ., �*, nervous? no, i can't wait. it's not dusting — nervous? no, i can't wait. it's not dusting something - nervous? no, i can't wait. it's not dusting something off, i nervous? no, i can't wait. it's| not dusting something off, it's part of what i do every day. we saw the format around the world. i'm involved in all
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those sales, we did a version for america with erin brockovich, we built at peace garden post 9/ii brockovich, we built at peace garden post 9/11 to the families. it's run through me like a stick of rock. when is it on? to be announced. bill it on? to be announced. all riuht. i it on? to be announced. all right. i note _ it on? to be announced. all right. i note ayesha is good be watching it. david, are eager to be tuning in? i watching it. david, are eager to be tuning in?— to be tuning in? i will be watching _ to be tuning in? i will be watching with _ to be tuning in? i will be - watching with my ten-year-old watching with my ten—year—old daughter— watching with my ten—year—old daughter and i know she'll love it because it will bring a smile _ it because it will bring a smile to both our faces. great tv brings _ smile to both our faces. great tv brings files to your face, strictly— tv brings files to your face, strictly and so on that's what televisions about.— strictly and so on that's what televisions about. cheering us u -. televisions about. cheering us u. it's televisions about. cheering us up it's been _ televisions about. cheering us up. it's been a _ televisions about. cheering us up. it's been a pleasure - up. it's been a pleasure speaking to all of you thanks for making time on the media show. david yellin who now runs the communication firm kitchen table partnerships. anneka rice who is good to be back with challenge anneka on sherriff i
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very soon. we earlier we heard from stephen glover, a columnist at the daily mail. thanks for watching this edition of the media show. will be back next week at the usual time. bye—bye. hello there. it was a warm and sunny day across the southern half of britain from friday and we saw temperatures pretty widely across the south and south—east reach around 21 degrees. now, we're not going to see temperatures that high for quite a few days now. certainly into the weekend, things are set to turn cooler as we start to pick up a northerly breeze, we could even see a few showers as well. now, many places will be dry on saturday thanks to high pressure. as this area of high pressure continues to push towards iceland, it will open the floodgates to this northerly wind, which is coming down from the arctic. so, for saturday, we start dry, on the cool side, they'll be
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plenty of sunshine around, but into the afternoon, clouds will develop, most across northern and eastern areas and we could see the odd shower here. northern scotland, down parts of eastern england could see the odd shower, too, but further south and west you are, the best of the sunshine and the best temperatures. we could see 19 or 20 degrees in south wales. but quite cool across north sea coasts, especially with that on—shore northerly breeze. now, through saturday night, most of the showers fade away, there could still be a few pushing into northern and eastern scotland, it does remain breezy. elsewhere, winds are light, the winds will be light and the clearest skies with it all the cool night to come, i think, a range of around 5—8 degrees typically. sunday is looking cooler — we could see why — the blue hue extended its way southwards around this area of high pressure will be pushing towards iceland. so, it's going to feel quite disappointingly cool across northern and eastern parts of the country throughout sunday. more cloud around generally across the country and anywhere could catch a shower. there will be sunny spells in between but quite limited, i think a lot of places holding onto the cloud. it's going to be breezy in the north and east,
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which willjust make it feel even chillier, but lighter winds across the southwest. it's here where we'll see the lightest temperatures again, 15, 16 degrees, disappointing for the time of year across northern and eastern scotland and eastern parts of england. into monday, we could see quite a bit of cloud around generally, we got a shallow area of low pressure across the uk, but there'll be barely any wind, so any showers that develop will be pretty slow—moving. sunshine will be quite limited, so that will affect the temperatures again. i think all the cool side, 11 to ia or 15 degrees in the south. as we move into tuesday and wednesday, it's a similar sort of story with a slack air flow across the uk. i think most of the showers will tend to be across more northern and western areas through tuesday and wednesday, perhaps turning a bit drier and warmer in the south.
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this is bbc news. i'm rich preston. our top stories: more details have emerged from the school shooting in uvalde, texas. students repeatedly called 911 pleading for help, as more than a dozen officers waited in the school's hallways for nearly an hour before entering the classroom. from the benefit of hindsight, where i'm sitting now, of course it was not the right decision, it was the wrong decision. there is no excuse for that. 21 dead and you're gonna smile and laugh?! you got grandkids. protesters gather outside the annual meeting of the national rifle association in texas, as the convention continues inside. moscow's advance continues, as russian—backed separatists claim they've captured a strategic town in northeastern donbas.
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