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tv   Russian Ambassador Interview  BBC News  May 29, 2022 2:30pm-3:00pm BST

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hello, this is bbc news. the headlines. the government says it's "very concerned" over upsetting scenes at the champions league final — as fans were tear gassed in paris. heavy fighting is continuing in eastern ukraine, where russian forces are trying to capture the city of severodonetsk. the russian ambassador to the uk tells the bbc that moscow will not use tactical nuclear weapons in the battle for ukraine. president biden is on his way to the texan city of uvalde, after a teenage gunman killed 19 children and two teachers one of the greatestjockey�*s of all time lester piggott, who won the derby nine times, has died at the age of 86.
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if now on bbc news, clive myrie has been speaking to russia's ambassador to the uk andrei kelin, at the russian embassy in london about the war in ukraine. some people may find pictures of civilian deaths that clive showed him in their conversation, distressing. ambassador, the facts are clear. thousands of people have been killed in this war so far. 1a million people have had to leave their homes since russia decided to invade ukraine. why did russia start this war? this is not a war. this is a limited operation. and i have to say, the reasoning, which probably is not popular here in media in great britain, because you are presenting only one side of the story and i have now
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to say to speak about the other side of the story, and i would appreciate very much that it will be heard. so by now, events are going on in the east, south—east of ukraine. and this is clear that during eight years after a nationalistic government has come to power in kyiv, they have built a fortress over there, a fortress in which best of ukrainian forces are now concentrated. and this is a highly fortified area, a region which is along the line of the limitation of donbas from which we are certain events could be started. whether it will be used by ukrainian army as defensive or we have got quite a lot of evidences that they were planning offensive against donbas region, against russians living over there. and just to prevent this, this attack which will be applauded, i will show, because in the western countries, because they are acting on their own territory. so we have to take preventive forces. as president putin has said, we have had no other way but to do this.
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first of all, thousands of people dying and 14 million people having to leave their homes does not suggest it's a limited military operation. it is a full—scale war. and there is absolutely no evidence that the ukrainian forces were launching some kind of huge attack in the donbas region. that's not there, the evidence isn't there. 0k, once again, it is for eight years, ukrainian forces were shelling donbas in donbas, russian people, civilians mainly. they killed quite a lot of them. young children were born and then even raised and has gone to school under ukrainian shelling of it. we have made many attempts to pacify the situation. also via minsk agreements. according to the un human rights commissioner, more civilians have been killed in the conflict since russia invaded in february than in the last eight years. where is the evidence that russian speaking ukrainians were under threat?
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that evidence isn't there. probably you haven't heard what i have said. how many people have been killed... i've heard what you've said. ..how many people have been killed? and i can assure you that it is not our idea to kill civilians. we, our militaries, they are targeting only military infrastructure because military infrastructure in ukraine remains after the soviet union. it is the biggest one. we would like to diminish ukrainian capabilities for striking, first of all, and we need to help these two now independent republics to survive. and it is more than four million people. it's quite a lot of people over there. you're saying you want to help the people in the east survive. the evidence suggests that there's been widespread devastation as a result of russian attacks and there's currently a huge bombardment, russian bombardment in that part of the country in the east. is your aim to take and keep that part of the country?
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our aim, as it has been formulated is to help now to these republics to survive. but be sure that we are going to assist and to help to of rebuilding of it. we have no, no other means at the moment because the fortress, the ukrainian troops, they are taking the civilian targets, they are using the buildings to put artillery in it and tanks underneath. so they are mainly hiding among the buildings, in the settlements, in the villages and small towns. it's a very difficultjob for our professional forces to seize these buildings one by one after that. have you given up on kyiv and focusing your war in the east? it is, it's a good question. none of our leaders, neither president or the others, has ever said that we would like to seize kyiv.
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and i don't believe that it is possible to seize kyiv or to occupy kyiv. it's a big, big city. you did have troops. ..you did have troops. we did have troops. i was there at the time. yes, we did have troops but not for the seizure of kyiv. so why were they there? i'm not a military person, i'm a diplomat for a0 years. but even i do understand if you would like to do something, then on one front, then you have to to do some different things orjust to stretch. ok, so you have given up on kyiv, there will be no attacks on the capital? we didn't have a goal of seizing kyiv at the initial stage of the operation, and i don't believe that that's a possibility. hmm, 0k. you've talked about russian forces not targeting civilian areas. you've talked about them being professional and waging this war in a professional manner. i'd like you to have a look at this cctv footage here, which shows two russian soldiers
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at a building in ukraine taking aim at two civilians walking away from them. they're walking away. if i had my ipad, i could also... ..if i had ipad i would be eager to show you that every day ukrainian forces are shelling innocent civilians in donbas, cities, towns and villages. and we have... these men are walking away from the soldiers. you can see it there. they are shot and they are killed. is this how russia is conducting this war? i cannot tell whether they are russian soldiers or who else. they are absolutely russian soldiers. it has been verified, sir. it is verified, they are russian soldiers? this is not a conversation.
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not conversation. you are showing me something. probably a piece of a field or a piece of a game or a joke or whatever. it a computer games and telling me. it's cctv footage from a building that has been corroborated. the two soldiers took aim at two people walking away from them and shot them dead. they then went into the building and the cctv shows them taking off their uniforms, wiping down the sweat from underneath their arms and taking drinks that were in the building and looting food. once again... is that how russian troops...? are having an interview with you or you or you would like to express your ideas. please. i have i have expressed the question, which is, is that how russian troops are conducting this war? you did express your point of view. i did express my point of view. and i can assure you that i wish you very attentively. it was going on in the east of ukraine. 0k.
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let's go to the town of bucha, which has become synonymous around the world with the crimes that many people point to of the russian military. can you explain why civilians have been shot? in cold blood in the streets of boucher? —— bucha... and these are photographs that suggest exactly what happened, sir. this photograph on the left was taken in late february before russian troops entered the town. this photograph here is on march 19th after russian troops were about, just after russian troops were about to leave. and that is the result. dead bodies in the street. again, sir, i'll ask you one more time. is this how russian troops are supposed to conduct this war? because the evidence suggests that committing war crimes, sir. if you are interested in this issue, then you should understand that
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after russian troops has left bucha for three days, no one has found anyone, any troops, any any bodies on the streets. and there are a lot of evidence so that after three days, someone has come and discovered some bodies. besides, can you imagine that professional troops, as russian troops, they will step over the bodies of someone during weeks and just leaving them behind. for what? for the next provocation? just to be done when someone is coming. i cannot believe it. frankly speaking, this is very unprofessional. the bbc has verified the footage and i have been to, i have seen the verification. i have spoken to some of the residents, local people who heard the gunshots, and they corroborate each of the story independently. and i went to jablonski street and i spoke to people in the neighbouring street, and they heard the gunshots in a nearby school, in a couple of other buildings, and injablonski street, which is where these pictures come from.
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sir, again, why is russia conducting this war in this way? and committing war crimes? the mayor of bucha in his initial statement when it has been freed, has confirmed that russian troops have left. everything is clean and calm. the town or village this town is in a state in a normal state. nothing is happening. no bodies are on the street. but next, after it has been done. but in a way, it is all made up. sir, this is all a fabrication? all this evidence, in our view, it is a fabrication. in ourview it in our view it is a fabrication. it is now. why it is used. just to interrupt negotiations. there were at the beginning of the conflict, we have had a very good negotiations. and ukraine, they have they have had a constructive position. but then something changed. someone has decided to use
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this incident to cut off negotiations since that time. unfortunately, it's a stalemate. it is for about a month that the draft agreement that has been based on ukrainian proposition is lying in kyiv. and we have a prolongation of war. and what we have from london, it is not the desire to finalise it or to negotiate it. we hear every day new appeals to send more weapons to ukraine to fight until the last ukrainian soldier to continue the conflict and no negotiate until the russian will be beaten. you say everything i've shown you is a fabrication. bucha pictures, it's a fabrication. you don't believe it? it's not true. is this a fabrication, sir? this is the city of mariupol, completely devastated. don't worry about mariupol. we have already... many people are worrying about. are you going to listen to me or we are going to talk yourself?
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if you will continue to talk, then it is over. we can finish on that point. what's your view of mariupol? so tell me. we have established a governmental commission which is going to rebuild mariupol totally. we will provide for the necessary financial resources for the building of it. and believe me, it will be done. we can see from the pictures these are residential areas, residential areas. residential houses. we saw a lot of experience... complete devastation. these are residential areas. these are not legitimate military targets. we have a lot of registered cases where this is over a wide range artillery. this is over a wide range. when ukrainian artillery was shelling residential areas, especially. this is a war crime and this is a war. as i have told you, as i have told you, we have lots of evidence when the ukraine artillery
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deliberately was shelling this war. so this is so this is the result of ukrainian artillery. so what you're saying? it might be, it might be result. it might be, speak about... so the ukrainian government has decided to completely flatten one of its own cities and leave this kind of devastation? mariupol has a long history and i remember that in 2014 the inhabitants of mariupol, they have voted at the referendum just to get out of ukraine. but after that, pretty quickly, ukrainian forces has restored over there their power. and those who has voted for that or who has activated for that, they have been seized and taken to some place. i've tried to provide... mariupol is a part of i've tried to divide donetsk republic. ..of what is happening. and you won't accept this clear evidence that i have? no, i offer today. i do accept that mariupol is destroyed by fighting. but you won't accept that it's the result of russian. it cannot. it can be both. because this is a fight. this is fight. so there is a possibility in your mind that russia
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is responsible for all this? that is a possibility, sir. as i have said, russians are targeting a military infrastructure. collateral damage is possible. i used to work in nato for many years and i was explained several times that collateral damage happens all the time if in the conflicts. that's collateral damage. that's what you think. that could be collateral damage. 0k. i mean, as i say, you won't accept any of the evidence that i've put forward that russia may be responsible or is responsible, and that russia, frankly, has committed war crimes. but other russian officials know what is going on. let me just read to you what russia's counsellor to the united nations in geneva, boris benderev, said this week after resigning his position. he said the aggressive war unleashed by putin against ukraine is not only a crime against the ukrainian people, but also perhaps the most serious crime against the people of russia.
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what do you think he means when he says this is a crime against the russian people? we know this guy. he is very unprofessional. well, we have, of course, people who think differently. he is one of them. that's all right. but i can see you that 75% of the russian population do support. but he is a senior official in the russian delegation at the united nations. we know the guy. yes, he stayed for some time at the ministry. he used to work over there, but he did not have our respect, not before and not after this statement. he doesn't have your respect? any other question? clive. excuse me. he doesn't have your respect? do you have any other questions? ido, sir.
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i do. iam... it must have taken a lot of courage on his part to say those things. he has done it and let it be like that. you are not in any way willing to echo his words, given everything that i've shown you today? in no way. absolutely. he's deluded? he's stupid? he just doesn't understand what's going on? it depends on him and his motivation. perhaps he would like to work for uk, so let him do this. i wonder, actually, are you too afraid to echo his words? me? in no way. absolutely. clive, as i have been shown what you would like to ask me. it was totally different issues. if you are only interested
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to provoke me to something or to be genuinely not here to discuss. i'm genuinely not here to do that. it is not about them. simply. then it will be our last points of view. i feel i'm simply putting other i can finish on this. i mean, there is there is the suggestion from our foreign secretary, liz truss, that this war will not end until vladimir putin and russian forces, his forces leave. ukraine in its entirety. she's a very belligerent your minister of foreign affairs, mrs liz truss. she is neither professional military man or she is not for a long time at this position, but she is very belligerent. if she would like to continue the war, she will prolong the conflict. and it is up to her, of course, to make this statement or to make these deeds. but it will be no good for ukraine. it will be no good for the european peace and stability and europe itself.
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we took note very much of this position, of course, and all the positions are that uk would like to supply more and more arms not to think about the future of ukraine or of europe, not to think about what's going to happen after that with ukrainian people, butjust to instigate the conflict. why this? what's the motivation for that? to make a russian more fable? it's an illusion. as recent as three months after sanctions has been imposed has shown our economy did not has been not toppled. inflation, the rate inflation rate will be in russia this year, about 15%. in the uk, it's about ten to i2%. it's not a big difference, of course, after all this sanctions, what's the use of that for uk? where is the profit?
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where is the benefit of uk? well, threats have been made towards the west as a result of vladimir putin's invasion. dmitry kiselyov, who runs russia, won one of the largest tv stations in the country, he said on air recently that one russian nuclear missile could plunge britain into the depths of the sea, and turn whatever may be left of them into a radioactive desert. do you believe president putin would be willing to launch a nuclear attack on britain? no, i don't believe that. dmitry kiselyov, he's a journalist. he is like you is trying to find something juicy and to put it on the television and to make it loud, loud statement about that. he's done it like you, like you also try to instigate me to... do you believe that it instigated a discussion?
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and you say that there will not be a nuclear attack on the uk? do you believe that there could be the use of a tactical nuclear weapon in the war in ukraine? well, tactical nuclear weapon, in accordance with the russian military doctrine, is not used in conflicts like that at all. so you do not believe that will happen? i don't think. can you categorically say it will not happen? we have a very strict provision on the issues of the use of tactical nuclear weapon, and it is mainly when the existence of the state is endangered. it has nothing to do with the current operation. but wasn't that the reasoning for going into ukraine in the first place, that what you said to me at the beginning of this conversation, that the suggestion was that ukraine was building up its forces to launch an attack in the east? yes. and we will deal it with conventional operations, limited conventional operation. perhaps you have noticed that we do not increase the number of our forces over there.
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we believe that it is sufficient to deal with the situation. can i ask you about the president himself, president putin? i mean, a lot of, a lot of speculation about his health. not at all. i have no idea. and i am not speculating about the authorities. i fully, fully understand that. i mean, we've heard everything you've said today. you've refuted all the evidence that i've put forward that you've been able to see with your own eyes if this whole of the rest. once again, i am convinced that the uk is not interested in the end state or what's going on over there. but it's a small point. you would like to take out of the general situation and to continue to press on them. it is the same in the newspapers. absolutely. and the same of the television. you see, that's very interesting, sir, because the russian people potentially have an excuse for not wanting to see the evidence and see the truth. they're fed propaganda. vast majority are fed propaganda.
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a free journalist working in russia would unfortunately, a free journalist working in russia, unfortunately, could well be sent to jail for 15 years if they say that this is a war. the television stations like sputnik, russian television. they are now prohibited from this space at all. even of the first channel is second channel or the russian television has been put under sanctions in the uk. so you do not... london. london, not you. you said journalist a london do not allow any any alternative version at all. you do not want to listen and to hear as your representatives in the international organisations they are now not to hear of the russian diplomats. they are running out of all the holes. we've been trying to work out what the story is.
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both sides of the argument. i've been to ukraine three times. i've reported on the story. it could have been you for two weeks. you have been here and you have no excuse because you have access to the world's media and how the whole of the rest of the world is reporting this story. and notjust the... i would suggest, because we are talking with you for about half an hour, it is quite long. i am not sure what will remain during during the footage on sunday, but i would advise you very much, because we are making no —— making now... press tour to donbas, to donbas republics, to see the other side of the medal to end press tour to mariupol. by the way, it was recently, i'm not sure when, but i think it's a couple of weeks ago. go over there, talk to people, talk to people not only over there, but also in the military, those who were living under these conditions, those who have seen this azov battalion and what they are really
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doing and who of them have the area, what is the reputation of them then? battalion, azov battalion, all the others. you will see it with your own eyes. sir, i'm still trying to see just for two weeks in kyiv will not give sitting for two weeks in kyiv will not give you an opportunity to. could i, could could ijustjust interject an idea here? i've been in donbas and i've been around the country. and which side of... when was the last time.. when was the last time you were in ukraine, sir? really? what? when was the last time you were in ukraine? i was in kyiv during the maidan revolution of the era, so we're going back quite a few years. i was there in the last three, three months, and i've been there since the beginning of the war. and what i'm trying to understand, sir, is why
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you are reluctant to acknowledge the facts on the ground. i don't understand. i absolutely don't understand. the facts on the ground should be accepted. about eight years of shelling of donbas and killing civilian people over there, which has triggered an operation ok. thank you, ambassador. thank you very much indeed. today has been a pretty showery kind of day. the showers have been at their heaviest across parts of wales and south—west england. this was one of the shower is working its way across the skies of devon in the last half hour or so but you can see the heaviest showers have been a long this kind of line working across wales and into the south—west. there have been showers elsewhere in the east of england and northern scotland. northern ireland has been largely dry with sunshine and that bit closer to an area of high pressure but overnight and we are going to see more showers coming in across scotland and england and will turn cloudy here. temperatures,
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another chilly night looking at 5-7 c another chilly night looking at 5—7 c and four monday we have got another unsettled and showery day in the forecast. this area of low pressure moves from scandinavia. the winds are light on this with few isobars but the low pressure will bring another batch of pretty heavy showers. for monday morning probably a lot of cloud around with sunny spells breaking through and then we will see showers forming in the afternoon. the heaviest of those in the south—west of england and will have this line of convergence were the winds bash together either side of the south—west peninsula. though showers will move into the south midlands in central and southern england. many of you will on monday see showers but slow moving on account of the fact that the winds will stay light. there will be nothing to move the showers along. more showers for tuesday and then they will get a bit of a cake from they will get a bit of a cake from thejet they will get a bit of a cake from the jet stream and means the showers will be more widespread. more than will be more widespread. more than will be more widespread. more than will be heavy and thundery and more of them will have hailstones mixed
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in as well. still a bit of sunshine between any downpours and the main sunshine is strong in the sun and when it goes behind the clouds you will probably feel a bit on the cool side with temperatures in northern areas of about 11 or 13. wednesday and still showers on the charts but this time it's across eastern scotland and eastern areas of england and even here the showers are probably in his widespread and probably not quite as heavy as well and there is a tendency for that whether to try to settle down to a degree and a bit more warmth as well. 17 in glasgow and up to 20 on the side of the uk. thursday and friday we may well see a patch of showers moving into the north—west of the uk but for most areas as we go through thursday and friday it is mainly dry with temperatures rising as we see a bit more sunshine and a bit more widely into the low 20s across parts of england and wales. thus the latest forecast and i will you later.
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this is bbc news with the latest headlines. the government says it's "very concerned" over upsetting scenes at the champions league final — as fans were tear gassed in paris. people were begging, the liverpool fans that were in were begging because they said it just seemed to be like it could be a repeat of hillsborough. that's how bad it was. heavy fighting is continuing in eastern ukraine, where russian forces are trying to capture the city of severodonetsk. the russian ambassador to the uk tells the bbc that moscow will not use tactical nuclear weapons in the battle for ukraine. we have a very strict provision on the issues of the use of tactical nuclear weapon, and it is mainly when the existence of the state is endangered. president biden will arrive in the texan city of uvalde later

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