hello and welcome to the programme which brings together leading uk commentators broadcasters from the dateline london. this week when is international law amount two. on tuesdayjudges decided it was permissible to fly would asylum—seekers to buy one day in east africa because if the policy is ruled unlawful the british government could be relied upon to bring them back again. it was a judge on the european court of human

rights whose intervention prevented the fight from taking off at all. at a later he became the second independent ethics adviser to resign. the government was considering paying subsidies to steer manufacturers in the uk in breach of the rules. the code says ministers should not operate the law. downing street is considering suspending it. for lord geidt this was the last straw. on friday boris johnson escape these distractions to spend the day in two years and even among the allies championing international law as a tool to bring to account russians for action taken during the invasion. they week investigators said they may have had evidence of serious breaches of international law which perhaps amount to war crimes. we will discuss those three aspects in is still here with me is ian who writes for the on sunday and let —— return for the on sunday and let —— return for from

for the on sunday and let —— return forfrom a for the on sunday and let —— return for from a lengthy speller in ukraine. thank you all for coming to the stadium. it's been a relief from a the hot temperatures outside england and as we record this programme. let us begin with rwanda. tell us what's happened to what britain says is a ground—breaking revolutionary new asylum policy sending asylum—seekers who want to come and live in the uk to buy one that instead. europe did not meddle in british law. that to buy one that instead. europe did not meddle in british law.— not meddle in british law. that is what boris _ not meddle in british law. that is what boris johnson _ not meddle in british law. that is what boris johnson and _ not meddle in british law. that is what boris johnson and his - what borisjohnson and his supporters want us to believe. that this is another european incursion. that's not what happened. i think a couple of observations here they tried to send asylum—seekers to rwanda to deter them from coming across the channel to say not worth

it, stay in france and stay in the continent. they knew it was not legal. they are pushing this. this is about protecting britain and this is about protecting britain and this is the same rhetoric as brexit and they are simply doing it for posturing and half an hour before european human rights court said no, you can't do it. that's not the european union. let's be clear. winston churchill high school statements are ace in 1959. this is 46 nations much larger than the european union and completely separate. it's the european council that runs it and it came out of the ashes of the second world war as a court. ., ,., .,, ., ashes of the second world war as a court. ., .,, ., ., . court. you said the european council is the body — court. you said the european council is the body that _ court. you said the european council is the body that runs _ court. you said the european council is the body that runs the _ court. you said the european council is the body that runs the european i is the body that runs the european union, you need a concert of europe. i am corrected. you are right. thank you for seeing that. the point being that only two countries have been expeued

that only two countries have been expelled away and left a european human rights court and that was russia and greece when it was under a dictatorship and borisjohnson is saying maybe we should not be part of it either. this is posturing for the election but let's be clear. you talk about this country and the rule of law and setting an example on how do we talk about russia and human rights incursions etc. there is a class in this country and i see this as somebody who lived there for 12 years that things it's entitled to do as it wishes and ignore the law. we saw this with party gates. now we are seeing it again. that we don't have to follow human rights law, we can't do it on our own. there is a consistent theme in this government. in truth, international human rights law is voluntary. people have chosen to adopt this but they is no sanction and because there is no actual enforcement in something we chosen to follow. we are not obliged to follow later. but

chosen to follow. we are not obliged to follow later.— to follow later. but all the court is seeinu to follow later. but all the court is seeing is _ to follow later. but all the court is seeing is we _ to follow later. but all the court is seeing is we are _ to follow later. but all the court is seeing is we are waiting - to follow later. but all the court is seeing is we are waiting until| is seeing is we are waiting until there _ is seeing is we are waiting until there is— is seeing is we are waiting until there is a — is seeing is we are waiting until there is a review and the judicial process— there is a review and the judicial process irr— there is a review and the judicial process in the uk is finished so that was— process in the uk is finished so that was all they were saying then we cari— that was all they were saying then we can take it from there. jeffrey is right — we can take it from there. jeffrey is right. this government had success— is right. this government had success irr— is right. this government had success in this and they had what they wanted and they wanted to cause a smoke _ they wanted and they wanted to cause a smoke screen and the reality is they have — a smoke screen and the reality is they have a — a smoke screen and the reality is they have a policy and they have a system _ they have a policy and they have a system which is not working very welt _ system which is not working very welt 72% — system which is not working very well. 72% of those people coming and another— well. 72% of those people coming and another half or so when them on asylum _ another half or so when them on asylum and those people being sent home _ asylum and those people being sent home where it evacuated has fallen into the _ home where it evacuated has fallen into the 20th of what it was in 2005 — into the 20th of what it was in 2005 the _ into the 20th of what it was in 2005. the government policy is not working and they need a smoke screen and they— working and they need a smoke screen and they got exactly what they want which _ and they got exactly what they want which is _ and they got exactly what they want which is a _ and they got exactly what they want which is a big fuss and a big fight. can which is a big fuss and a big fight. carr i_ which is a big fuss and a big fight. carr i talk— which is a big fuss and a big fight. can i talk about the judge saying go back and get it tested before you try and do it because it does not look lawful. in a sense they were

jumping in where you might argue domesticjudges should have acted and in other words they said that something the british judges should have done. that's an arguable point. one of the things which we have seen with boris johnson one of the things which we have seen with borisjohnson is to be able to blame lawyers who they attack and this gives them another excuse to blame those lawyers for stopping them doing what they wanted to. the whole thing is a ridiculous smoke screen and if they want to tackle the sim they can do so and they can process on french soil and have a more effective system in the uk and what we need is an efficient sim system in which what we don't have is an efficient sim system but we have these ridiculous stunts. 28,526 eo - le have these ridiculous stunts. 28,526 peeple made — have these ridiculous stunts. 28,526 peeple made it _ have these ridiculous stunts. 28,526 peeple made it to — have these ridiculous stunts. 28,526 people made it to britain _ have these ridiculous stunts. 28,526 people made it to britain last - have these ridiculous stunts. 28,526 people made it to britain last year . people made it to britain last year on this route. 45 people and they went missing or died attempting to

do so. seeking you can see statistically why people might carry on coming with the risk to life although it's a very dangerous one of the most crowded in the world actually proportionately is low. let proportionately it's a low figure. australia had exactly this problem a tried to offshore and australia it seemed to work. it tried to offshore and australia it seemed to work.— tried to offshore and australia it seemed to work. if you look to our stratus is playing _ seemed to work. if you look to our stratus is playing out _ seemed to work. if you look to our stratus is playing out perfectly - seemed to work. if you look to our stratus is playing out perfectly for| stratus is playing out perfectly for the british conservatives because this issue — the british conservatives because this issue dominated at least three to four— this issue dominated at least three to four elections and it's now the case _ to four elections and it's now the case that— to four elections and it's now the case that irr— to four elections and it's now the case that in australia lethal to go to an _ case that in australia lethal to go to an election saying you would oniine — to an election saying you would online support or protection policies _ online support or protection policies. the long side of this has been _ policies. the long side of this has been drawn out over the the last two decades— been drawn out over the the last two decades in_ been drawn out over the the last two decades in australia and we had the pacific— decades in australia and we had the pacific solution and this is where asylum—seekers who came by on both and they— asylum—seekers who came by on both and they come from indonesia they be sent to _ and they come from indonesia they be sent to detention centres and first it was—

sent to detention centres and first it was unsure and papua new guinea. that they pretty much stopped slow the bullets to very minimal numbers. not completely. in 2007 the labour party went — not completely. in 2007 the labour party went to the election in 18 saving — party went to the election in 18 saying we are going to unwind base mrl system and they did. and the bullets _ mrl system and they did. and the bullets came back with a ferocity. and this — bullets came back with a ferocity. and this arguably killed their reelection chances to elections later— reelection chances to elections later because windows bullets came back with _ later because windows bullets came back with a ferocity we did have this spectacle of people dying at sea and — this spectacle of people dying at sea and the court tried the labour government came up with its own refugee _ government came up with its own refugee swap plan with malaysia. this was— refugee swap plan with malaysia. this was a — refugee swap plan with malaysia. this was a neighbour in 2013. the high— this was a neighbour in 2013. the high court— this was a neighbour in 2013. the high court knocked it down. that enabled — high court knocked it down. that enabled the government to when it's wanted _ enabled the government to when it's wanted power was to rip up all international law. international law is not _ international law. international law is not adhered to began to turn back the boats. _ is not adhered to began to turn back the boats, tell them back to

indonesia. they would put them in orange _ indonesia. they would put them in orange lifeboats and said it's up to you if— orange lifeboats and said it's up to you if you — orange lifeboats and said it's up to you if you get back safely. that's ultimately — you if you get back safely. that's ultimately what stopped the boats. in ultimately what stopped the boats. in the _ ultimately what stopped the boats. in the and — ultimately what stopped the boats. in the and international law did not account for anything. but they decided friday domestic political reasons that was going to be but it's fair to say the policy worked in its own terms and stop people coming and made it so unpleasant the chance of getting to australia. this is an important _ chance of getting to australia. this is an important distinction because the terrans— is an important distinction because the terrans did _ is an important distinction because the terrans did not _ is an important distinction because the terrans did not completely- the terrans did not completely stop boats _ the terrans did not completely stop boats so _ the terrans did not completely stop boats so if — the terrans did not completely stop boats so if you _ the terrans did not completely stop boats. so if you told _ the terrans did not completely stop boats. so if you told and _ the terrans did not completely stop boats. so if you told and there's - boats. so if you told and there's lots of _ boats. so if you told and there's lots of research _ boats. so if you told and there's lots of research to _ boats. so if you told and there's lots of research to show- boats. so if you told and there's lots of research to show this - lots of research to show this because _ lots of research to show this because even— lots of research to show this because even after- lots of research to show this because even after labour. lots of research to show this - because even after labour unwinds the pacific— because even after labour unwinds the pacific solution _ because even after labour unwinds the pacific solution and _ because even after labour unwinds the pacific solution and trying - because even after labour unwinds the pacific solution and trying to l the pacific solution and trying to reinstate — the pacific solution and trying to reinstate it _ the pacific solution and trying to reinstate it it— the pacific solution and trying to reinstate it it never— the pacific solution and trying to reinstate it it never stopped - the pacific solution and trying to reinstate it it never stopped the| reinstate it it never stopped the boats — reinstate it it never stopped the boats there _ reinstate it it never stopped the boats. there was _ reinstate it it never stopped the boats. there was messaging. reinstate it it never stopped the| boats. there was messaging and campaigns— boats. there was messaging and campaigns in— boats. there was messaging and campaigns in all— boats. there was messaging and campaigns in all these _ boats. there was messaging and campaigns in all these areas - boats. there was messaging and campaigns in all these areas to i boats. there was messaging and . campaigns in all these areas to tell people _ campaigns in all these areas to tell people not— campaigns in all these areas to tell people not to — campaigns in all these areas to tell people not to come _ campaigns in all these areas to tell people not to come on _ campaigns in all these areas to tell people not to come on a _ campaigns in all these areas to tell people not to come on a boat. - campaigns in all these areas to tell| people not to come on a boat. that did not— people not to come on a boat. that did not stop — people not to come on a boat. that did not stop them. _ people not to come on a boat. that did not stop them.— did not stop them. i don't think the arallel did not stop them. i don't think the parallel hold _ did not stop them. i don't think the parallel hold for— did not stop them. i don't think the parallel hold for a _ did not stop them. i don't think the parallel hold for a number- did not stop them. i don't think the parallel hold for a number of- parallel hold for a number of reasons but one of the key point is people in this country are not about

asylum—seekers as an invasion as they were in the pre—brexit time. this is not a plumbing issue right now in this country. and they are so many other issues. i think boris johnson is desperately looking for ages to polarise people and galvanise his face. fine ages to polarise people and galvanise his face.- ages to polarise people and galvanise his face. one of the critical issues _ galvanise his face. one of the critical issues in _ galvanise his face. one of the critical issues in about - galvanise his face. one of the critical issues in about why i galvanise his face. one of the i critical issues in about why boris johnson's — critical issues in about why boris johnson's leadership was destabilised was mps acting on this issue because in their electorates as hotels— issue because in their electorates as hotels filled with asylum—seekers that aren't _ as hotels filled with asylum—seekers that aren't being processed. they have been transferred _ that aren't being processed. tue: have been transferred from that aren't being processed. tta: have been transferred from the coast. , , ., ., ,, coast. this is more an issue of home-office — coast. this is more an issue of home-office processing - coast. this is more an issue of home-office processing at - coast. this is more an issue ofj home-office processing at this coast. this is more an issue of - home-office processing at this point home—office processing at this point because _ home—office processing at this point because people _ home—office processing at this point because people are _ home—office processing at this point because people are living _ home—office processing at this point because people are living in - home—office processing at this point because people are living in hotels i because people are living in hotels but what _ because people are living in hotels but what that — because people are living in hotels but what that means _ because people are living in hotels but what that means is _ because people are living in hotels but what that means is a _ because people are living in hotels but what that means is a lot - because people are living in hotels but what that means is a lot of- but what that means is a lot of community— but what that means is a lot of community backlash _ but what that means is a lot of community backlash in - but what that means is a lot of community backlash in the - but what that means is a lot of- community backlash in the australian lesson— community backlash in the australian lesson on— community backlash in the australian lesson on the — community backlash in the australian lesson on the populace _ community backlash in the australian lesson on the populace politics - community backlash in the australian lesson on the populace politics of- lesson on the populace politics of case shows — lesson on the populace politics of case shows for— lesson on the populace politics of case shows for as _ lesson on the populace politics of case shows for as long _ lesson on the populace politics of case shows for as long as - lesson on the populace politics of case shows for as long as this - lesson on the populace politics of. case shows for as long as this goes on like _ case shows for as long as this goes on like this— case shows for as long as this goes on like this that _ case shows for as long as this goes on like this that conservatives - case shows for as long as this goes on like this that conservatives willl on like this that conservatives will win this _ on like this that conservatives will win this argument _ on like this that conservatives will win this argument and _ on like this that conservatives will win this argument and he - on like this that conservatives will win this argument and he will - on like this that conservatives will. win this argument and he will know labour— win this argument and he will know labour is— win this argument and he will know labour is not— win this argument and he will know labour is not saying _ win this argument and he will know labour is not saying we _ win this argument and he will know labour is not saying we are - win this argument and he will know

labour is not saying we are not - labour is not saying we are not going — labour is not saying we are not going to — labour is not saying we are not going to reverse _ labour is not saying we are not going to reverse. [— labour is not saying we are not going to reverse.— labour is not saying we are not going to reverse. i don't think this is a one issue _ going to reverse. i don't think this is a one issue country. _ going to reverse. i don't think this is a one issue country. there - going to reverse. i don't think this is a one issue country. there is i is a one issue country. there is another issue _ is a one issue country. there is another issue at _ is a one issue country. there is another issue at a _ is a one issue country. there is another issue at a time - is a one issue country. there is another issue at a time when i is a one issue country. there is. another issue at a time when we is a one issue country. there is i another issue at a time when we are fighting _ another issue at a time when we are fighting a _ another issue at a time when we are fighting a war against a dictatorship we are outsourcing refugees — dictatorship we are outsourcing refugees to the most overcrowded country _ refugees to the most overcrowded country in — refugees to the most overcrowded country in africa to a dictatorship and someone who came to power as president— and someone who came to power as president of— and someone who came to power as president of the same year as putin who is— president of the same year as putin who is a _ president of the same year as putin who is a former spy chief like putin who is a former spy chief like putin who has— who is a former spy chief like putin who has a — who is a former spy chief like putin who has a track record of invading other— who has a track record of invading other countries like putin who has a track— other countries like putin who has a track record — other countries like putin who has a track record of ripping off assets from _ track record of ripping off assets from other countries like putin who has a _ from other countries like putin who has a track— from other countries like putin who has a track record of repression of staffing _ has a track record of repression of staffing free expression and eliminating rifles and all these things— eliminating rifles and all these things that hypocrisy is grotesque and the _ things that hypocrisy is grotesque and the idea that we are doing this deal with— and the idea that we are doing this deal with a — and the idea that we are doing this deal with a dictatorship like what wanda _ deal with a dictatorship like what wanda is— deal with a dictatorship like what wanda is sticks in my throat. the other thing _ wanda is sticks in my throat. the other thing is _ wanda is sticks in my throat. the other thing is australia has a huge cultural— other thing is australia has a huge cultural anxiety— other thing is australia has a huge cultural anxiety and _ other thing is australia has a huge cultural anxiety and it _ other thing is australia has a huge cultural anxiety and it would - other thing is australia has a huge cultural anxiety and it would be i other thing is australia has a huge cultural anxiety and it would be ai cultural anxiety and it would be a shame _ cultural anxiety and it would be a shame to — cultural anxiety and it would be a shame to see _ cultural anxiety and it would be a shame to see the _ cultural anxiety and it would be a shame to see the united - cultural anxiety and it would be al shame to see the united kingdom which _ shame to see the united kingdom which is _ shame to see the united kingdom which is an— shame to see the united kingdom which is an open _ shame to see the united kingdom which is an open progressive i shame to see the united kingdom . which is an open progressive society moved _ which is an open progressive society moved down — which is an open progressive society moved down that _ which is an open progressive society moved down that route _ which is an open progressive society moved down that route because i which is an open progressive society. moved down that route because during the pandemic— moved down that route because during the pandemic australia _

moved down that route because during the pandemic australia locked - moved down that route because during the pandemic australia locked out i the pandemic australia locked out its citizens — the pandemic australia locked out its citizens and _ the pandemic australia locked out its citizens and no _ the pandemic australia locked out its citizens and no one _ the pandemic australia locked out its citizens and no one cared i its citizens and no one cared because _ its citizens and no one cared because it _ its citizens and no one cared because it was _ its citizens and no one cared because it was a _ its citizens and no one cared because it was a direct i because it was a direct transposition- because it was a direct transposition of- because it was a direct transposition of the i because it was a direct i transposition of the politics because it was a direct - transposition of the politics that paid out— transposition of the politics that paid out against _ transposition of the politics that paid out against others, - transposition of the politics that i paid out against others, refugees, anyone _ paid out against others, refugees, anyone outside _ paid out against others, refugees, anyone outside the _ paid out against others, refugees, anyone outside the country- paid out against others, refugees, anyone outside the country and i paid out against others, refugees, i anyone outside the country and that has morphed — anyone outside the country and that has morphed into _ anyone outside the country and that has morphed into a _ anyone outside the country and that has morphed into a treatment - anyone outside the country and that has morphed into a treatment of. has morphed into a treatment of anyone _ has morphed into a treatment of anyone who _ has morphed into a treatment of anyone who is _ has morphed into a treatment of anyone who is offshore. - has morphed into a treatment of anyone who is offshore. that i has morphed into a treatment of. anyone who is offshore. that would be sad and — anyone who is offshore. that would be sad and tragic— anyone who is offshore. that would be sad and tragic to— anyone who is offshore. that would be sad and tragic to see _ anyone who is offshore. that would be sad and tragic to see britain i be sad and tragic to see britain follow— be sad and tragic to see britain follow that _ be sad and tragic to see britain follow that.— follow that. the issue is complicated _ follow that. the issue is complicated because i follow that. the issue is _ complicated because asylum-seekers complicated because asylum—seekers are meant to claim asylum in the first country they a landing which is greece or italy which have a much bigger problem than the uk. the uk is in the luxurious position of being an island surrounded by european first world countries. you don't get mexican border is crossing from mexico into canada. these countries are insulated and they become countries of opportunity because they are seen as the uk is an english—speaking country and a capitalist economy and an easier place to if you are from and asylum. you might get stuffed.—

you might get stuffed. people will cross over even _ you might get stuffed. people will cross over even though _ you might get stuffed. people will cross over even though they i you might get stuffed. people will cross over even though they could | cross over even though they could claim refugee status in france, fans made it difficult and you've got the flood coming in here so they are very different situations. australia and the uk and i don't think the parallels can be taken too closely. we will park this conversation here. let's talk about ukraine. boris johnson was there on friday. surprise visit on thursday. on our schultz his first visit to ukraine, he was criticised for not going. on the surface you would think everything is fine. the alliance is strong, everyone is standing by, ukraine wants my weapons and it wants them yesterday but that's understandable. i wonder having been in ukraine for17 understandable. i wonder having been in ukraine for 17 weeks or something they are told and having been there before in 2014 when this war really began with the mysterious figure as it turned out to be russian special

forces coming in what's your sense of this? , ., forces coming in what's your sense of this? , . ., ., forces coming in what's your sense ofthis? ., ., , ., ., of this? they are at a pivotal moment _ of this? they are at a pivotal moment right _ of this? they are at a pivotal moment right now. - of this? they are at a pivotal moment right now. the i of this? they are at a pivotal moment right now. the warl of this? they are at a pivotal. moment right now. the war has changed — moment right now. the war has changed shape. we know that. it's become _ changed shape. we know that. it's become a — changed shape. we know that. it's become a lot more brutal. lots more attritional _ become a lot more brutal. lots more attritional. the russians are learning _ attritional. the russians are learning from initial mistakes and ukraine _ learning from initial mistakes and ukraine reaction has been incredible and amazing and i've been there since _ and amazing and i've been there since january and to see the latest country _ since january and to see the latest country on — since january and to see the latest country on this existential threat from _ country on this existential threat from the — country on this existential threat from the world second—biggest army and the _ from the world second—biggest army and the whole country is geared towards — and the whole country is geared towards fending off this threat has been phenomenal and attitudes have hardened _ been phenomenal and attitudes have hardened but at the same time the media _ hardened but at the same time the media interest worldwide is beginning to invoke and that's frightening. putin is playing the lon- frightening. putin is playing the long game and hoping they will be cracks— long game and hoping they will be cracks in— long game and hoping they will be cracks in the alliance. we are seeing — cracks in the alliance. we are seeing the rhetoric change in america _ seeing the rhetoric change in america and what you need the reality— america and what you need the reality is— america and what you need the reality is russia is still not doing that well — reality is russia is still not doing that well. yes they made some advances— that well. yes they made some advances and the bombardment is horrendous and that deaths on both sides— horrendous and that deaths on both sides are _ horrendous and that deaths on both sides are terrible but they have not

taken _ sides are terrible but they have not taken then— sides are terrible but they have not taken then ask which is a 100,000 city and _ taken then ask which is a 100,000 city and they took mary appalled by destroying it and they have taken —— they had _ destroying it and they have taken —— they had not— destroying it and they have taken —— they had not taken many urban centres — they had not taken many urban centres if— they had not taken many urban centres. if they want to take done thus they— centres. if they want to take done thus they have to take much bigger cities _ thus they have to take much bigger cities and — thus they have to take much bigger cities. and this is a pivotal moment where _ cities. and this is a pivotal moment where if— cities. and this is a pivotal moment where if there is the right western support and the west the united and the quantum stop saying we can't humiliate — the quantum stop saying we can't humiliate putin and actually if we support _ humiliate putin and actually if we support the ukrainians popularity with the — support the ukrainians popularity with the weapons they need and i still think— with the weapons they need and i still think something could change guite _ still think something could change quite dramatically. the danger is that people are bored and attention .oes that people are bored and attention goes elsewhere in the cost crisis rises _ goes elsewhere in the cost crisis rises i_ goes elsewhere in the cost crisis rises. i naturally the alliance dissipates and putin exploits that and the _ dissipates and putin exploits that and the ukrainians are abundant and evenafter— and the ukrainians are abundant and even aftertheir and the ukrainians are abundant and even after their heroic fight against _ even after their heroic fight against this invading power when we talk about— against this invading power when we talk about war crimes the fact is it

was a _ talk about war crimes the fact is it was a workaround to invade in 2040 and a _ was a workaround to invade in 2040 and a workaround to shoot down and airline _ and a workaround to shoot down and airline and _ and a workaround to shoot down and airline and it's a war crime to go back in— airline and it's a war crime to go back in again. so the whole act as well as— back in again. so the whole act as well as the — back in again. so the whole act as well as the individual atrocities be seen _ well as the individual atrocities be seen left — well as the individual atrocities be seen left right and centre. | seen left right and centre. suspect a seen left right and centre. i suspect a lot of people seen left right and centre. t suspect a lot of people won't be surprised about this. the region is that basically the area that includes the two self—declared? tt’s includes the two self-declared? it's an includes the two self—declared? it's an eastern area. heavy industry it used _ an eastern area. heavy industry it used to— an eastern area. heavy industry it used to be — an eastern area. heavy industry it used to be quite prosperous. the two areas _ used to be quite prosperous. the two areas and _ used to be quite prosperous. the two areas and another cityjust over the water— areas and another cityjust over the water but _ areas and another cityjust over the water but even days at trench i visited — water but even days at trench i visited in — water but even days at trench i visited injanuary water but even days at trench i visited in january which water but even days at trench i visited injanuary which is water but even days at trench i visited in january which is a few miles— visited in january which is a few miles away still fighting over this tiny place — miles away still fighting over this tiny place which they captured and were pushed out of intellect 20 and

they are _ were pushed out of intellect 20 and they are still fighting now. the russians— they are still fighting now. the russians have not managed to capture that so _ russians have not managed to capture that so it's _ russians have not managed to capture that so it's still a war which can io that so it's still a war which can go on _ that so it's still a war which can go on for— that so it's still a war which can go on for a _ that so it's still a war which can go on for a long time but there's a huge _ go on for a long time but there's a huge amount to pay for which is why the western support is so important to back— the western support is so important to back ukraine property which still countries _ to back ukraine property which still countries are not doing. do to back ukraine property which still countries are not doing.— countries are not doing. do you detect that? — countries are not doing. do you detect that? right _ countries are not doing. do you detect that? right now - countries are not doing. do you detect that? right now we i countries are not doing. do you detect that? right now we can | countries are not doing. do you i detect that? right now we can talk about this later _ detect that? right now we can talk about this later but _ detect that? right now we can talk about this later but the _ detect that? right now we can talk about this later but the obsession l about this later but the obsession is on this january six hearings in the us. if you look at the american newspapers it's all about the trump commit treason and can he go to trial etc? and it's natural, we know this as journalists and consumers of media that stories start to sit down if they start to have a sameness to them. �* , ~' them. and the shock value unfortunately _ them. and the shock value unfortunately diminishes. l them. and the shock value j unfortunately diminishes. i them. and the shock value i unfortunately diminishes. i think i auree unfortunately diminishes. i think i aaree and unfortunately diminishes. i think i agree and this _ unfortunately diminishes. i think i

agree and this is _ unfortunately diminishes. i think i agree and this is a _ unfortunately diminishes. i think i agree and this is a test _ unfortunately diminishes. i think i agree and this is a test of - unfortunately diminishes. i think i | agree and this is a test of western solidarity and having committed so much and understanding this is not an attack on ukraine, it's an attack on europe and western values, there is no going back for the last. the west has to support ukraine. my question, you have a better understanding of this. it's 114 question, you have a better understanding of this. it's114 days since this began. ukraine has done far better than we expected. it's military is far more resilient and former professional than people give credit for. they've got to be exhausted now. do they have a staggering number of injuries now do they have the depth and the manpower to sustain this war even if they have the weapons given to them from the west. the big issue is the economics. i think the attitude is

there and the desire is there to save the country and the support is there and it's impossible to know there and it's impossible to know the personnel issues. t there and it's impossible to know the personnel issues.— the personnel issues. i think the critical question _ the personnel issues. i think the critical question is _ the personnel issues. i think the critical question is the _ the personnel issues. i think the critical question is the economy | the personnel issues. i think the l critical question is the economy is so shot— critical question is the economy is so shot to — critical question is the economy is so shot to pieces. there and no money— so shot to pieces. there and no money and _ so shot to pieces. there and no money and people are tired and there are air— money and people are tired and there are air raid _ money and people are tired and there are air raid sirens every night. i think— are air raid sirens every night. i think the — are air raid sirens every night. i think the real dangerjust like for the western alliance is whether that incredible _ the western alliance is whether that incredible alliance which got behind zelensky— incredible alliance which got behind zelensky who will so heroically in the way— zelensky who will so heroically in the way he reacted with the fact can hold as _ the way he reacted with the fact can hold as well when people are just tired and — hold as well when people are just tired and exhausted but at the moment— tired and exhausted but at the moment when i left i have not you still detect — moment when i left i have not you still detect this incredible feeling that the — still detect this incredible feeling that the whole country is geared towards — that the whole country is geared towards saving themselves and supporting the people on the front nine _ supporting the people on the front nine. ., ., _, ., . , ., nine. you mentioned economics and i wonder about — nine. you mentioned economics and i wonder about economics _ nine. you mentioned economics and i wonder about economics in _ nine. you mentioned economics and i wonder about economics in the i wonder about economics in the listing point of view. one of are making sacrifices. nothing make the

sacrifice ukrainians are making and they did it ended believe it would accelerate the end of the war. if russia's economy was cut off and we weren't buying oil and gas and we weren't buying oil and gas and we were infunding weren't buying oil and gas and we were in funding the war machine that in the and this would force putin to negotiate for his regime would collapse. it looks like that will not happen. i wonder at what point people in the west start to say it was a good try, you thought it would help, its not making enough of a difference and we are suffering really badly. difference and we are suffering really badly-— really badly. there has to be a different way. _ really badly. there has to be a different way. i _ really badly. there has to be a different way. i think - really badly. there has to be a different way. i think that i really badly. there has to be a different way. i think that will| different way. i think that will come sooner rather than later. the basic factors say look at the us, australia and britain, everything is the same story. inflation is soaring, cost—of—living is soaring, labour shortages are soaring, governments will be dealing with very bad hands for the next three to five years minimum. let's have this conversation in six months when we

are all called and energy bills are skyrocketing and we can't afford some of the things we are affording even today. the other thing i fear that's happening is the media narrative like this idea of the mighty fox against them in when it was zelensky against putin in the early days and i worry that in too many names of the worlds to check into the story when the y by danny ace they have banked a win for ukraine and they think the outcome is set and that would be fatal for us all. we in australia now this war is for all of us because china will be very inspired if putin succeeds. and last week we saw china that's weights _ and last week we saw china that's weights are important because it's a fi-ht weights are important because it's a fight for— weights are important because it's a fight for democracy last week we saw china reactivate their support for the first— china reactivate their support for the first time with putting seem to change _ the first time with putting seem to change the law to allow a bit more leeway— change the law to allow a bit more leeway and mounting a similar

attack~ — leeway and mounting a similar attack. it's so significant what happened in china and that of course is why— happened in china and that of course is why this _ happened in china and that of course is why this is — happened in china and that of course is why this is so important. don't forget _ is why this is so important. don't forget there is still significant countries that are completely let's not say _ countries that are completely let's not say fine but they have not criticised _ not say fine but they have not criticised putin.— not say fine but they have not criticised putin. . . ., criticised putin. india. we have the same strategic _ criticised putin. india. we have the same strategic interest _ criticised putin. india. we have the same strategic interest at - criticised putin. india. we have the same strategic interest at heart. . same strategic interest at heart. brazil, another important player that has not come out on the left side. i think some of these games we believe we made are not. that side. i think some of these games we believe we made are not.— believe we made are not. at the thou~ht believe we made are not. at the thought about _ believe we made are not. at the thought about lord _ believe we made are not. at the thought about lord geidt. i believe we made are not. at the thought about lord geidt. he's i believe we made are not. at the| thought about lord geidt. he's a figure many people have not heard of. he worked for the cleaned and was draughted in after because boris johnson decided the home secretary where all back had not broken the ministerial coloured when she was bullying staff and did not have to resign. lord geidt is now gone and

he says it was the last straw, he was, would it be all right if we suspended the ministerial code to allow us to do something which is interesting. he said emphasis on steel tariffs, it was one example of what might constitute deliberate breaches by the uk and its obligations under international law giving the government widely publicised openness to this. it's a pretty damaging verdict. it is publicised openness to this. it's a pretty damaging verdict.- publicised openness to this. it's a pretty damaging verdict. it is but i don't think most _ pretty damaging verdict. it is but i don't think most people _ pretty damaging verdict. it is but i don't think most people will i pretty damaging verdict. it is but i don't think most people will know| don't think most people will know about lord geidt and all the damage here is pretty much locked in. if you think he's a liar and untrustworthy antiquity will not change your view regardless of lord geidtplus decision. i'm very amused by this british idea that you would have an ethics adviser for politician. it's a very noble. be ——

we have to buy elections coming up on thursday that will be a test of what you are saying because if you read what pundits and people will know more than i do about these buy elections there is a good chance they would be knocked out and it would be yet another step for boris johnson. t would be yet another step for boris johnson. ~' , ., , ., johnson. i think the question is a bit like covering _ johnson. i think the question is a bit like covering trump. - johnson. i think the question is a bit like covering trump. is i johnson. i think the question is a bit like covering trump. is there | johnson. i think the question is a | bit like covering trump. is there a tipping _ bit like covering trump. is there a tipping point? is there a point at which _ tipping point? is there a point at which he — tipping point? is there a point at which he just can't sustain it any more? _ which he just can't sustain it any more? his— which he just can't sustain it any more? his parliamentary caucus does not believe _ more? his parliamentary caucus does not believe in him. but that was not enough _ not believe in him. but that was not enough. does this continued erosion and is _ enough. does this continued erosion and is there — enough. does this continued erosion and is there a point at which he has to go? _ and is there a point at which he has to go? but— and is there a point at which he has to go? but he's not theresa may. she 'ust to go? but he's not theresa may. she just you _ to go? but he's not theresa may. she just you and _ to go? but he's not theresa may. she just you and i— to go? but he's not theresa may. she just you and i she could not do it. ithink— just you and i she could not do it. i think your— just you and i she could not do it. i think your sense of entitlement is far greater — i think your sense of entitlement is far greater-— far greater. this is why i think that i far greater. this is why i think that i want — far greater. this is why i think that i want the _

far greater. this is why i think that i want the issue - far greater. this is why i think that i want the issue is i far greater. this is why i think that i want the issue is so i that i want the issue is so important for the tories. they have an issue to revitalise himself if they go to an early election this could be... the key is borisjohnson if you can't when he will be tolerated. one of them is where debris is to be strong and the other is in the... debris is to be strong and the other is in the- - -— is in the... marketing will be in the chair next _ is in the... marketing will be in the chair next week _ is in the... marketing will be in the chair next week at - is in the... marketing will be in | the chair next week at the same time. thank you all very much.

it has been the hottest day of the year so far with temperatures going up year so far with temperatures going up to 33 celsius. you can see the extent of the blue skies here where most of us did have the sunshine however they had this area of low cloud and mist and fog of southwest england and south wales and it was a grey and gloomy afternoon of course the heatwave has been tracking for a number of days in spain we had temperatures over the 40 degrees mark for much of last week. it's been the earliest heatwave here and it's been pushing its way north reaching france yesterday we had

temperatures reaching 40 degrees and that was the earliest in the air that's ever happened. the heatwave not only has been pretty ferocious but the heat has been arriving very early in the summer season. we got a few showers across northwest scotland where it stays breezy but otherwise clear skies for the most part the web front bringing the odd spot of rain and for many viewers not too bad with temperatures around 12 to 14 degrees but these are the temperatures and across parts of eastern england for some of you it will be an uncomfortable night sleepyhead. that week friends will continue its journey south and its front as we head into saturday across parts of wales and the midlands and eastern england as well stop its very weak and misty with a few spots of drizzle around some of the hills but through the day it will get reactivated and rainbow develop across wales and spread into the midlands and parts of eastern

england as well and the rain will be happy at times with some thunder and to the south—east still holding onto hot air. for much of the uk temperatures in the high teens and that means you're looking at a temperature drop of 14 or 15 celsius. you will notice that change. for sunday there is uncertainty about the number of showers and thunderstorms we will have across the south but here we will see at least the wet weather and northwestern brings bringing partly cloudy skies and a few bright boys any spells.

you are watching bbc news. the headlines at eight p:m.. boris johnson returns to visit but i made we will work together with you and with our partners to rebuild your wonderful country for the benefit of ukrainians and i might say for the benefit of the whole of the global economy. gatwick airport reduces membranous flights in the summer due to lack of staff. investigation launched after messenger with mobility impairments died in an airport and gatwick said

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