last—ditch effort to halt rail strikes ahead of a week of cancelled trains with more warnings and potential action to come. "network derailed" — the metro continues on the story of the rail and underground strikes this week, with what they're calling "the biggest rail shutdown in 30 years." the financial times reports on city bosses warning that the uk is ill—equipped to deal with severe economic shock caused by inflation and stagnation. and the i newspaper also leads on rail strikes, carrying a quote that they the strikes could "carry on until the autumn," as the general secretary of the rmt warns people of a "long fight" between unions and network rail. the picture central on the front page of the independent is macron outside polling stations yesterday as latest projections suggest macron is set to lose his grip on power, by winning seats just short of a majority in france's

national assembly. the times reports on the possibility of further walk—outs, with teachers and doctors unions threatening to join the strikes. so let's begin. thank you both forjoining us. geri, we will start with the guardian and the story we have been talking about, anticipating the rail strikes ahead. it says anger as ministers refused tojoin a ahead. it says anger as ministers refused to join a last—minute effort to halt rail your thoughts? i refused to join a last-minute effort to halt rail your thoughts?- to halt railyour thoughts? i think we are all hoping _ to halt railyour thoughts? i think we are all hoping that _ to halt railyour thoughts? i think we are all hoping that we - to halt railyour thoughts? i think we are all hoping that we will. to halt railyour thoughts? i think we are all hoping that we will -- | we are all hoping that we will —— they will get around the table and bash out a deal, but it seems extremely likely these strikes will go ahead this week and other strikes gearing up in other sectors too, many papers reporting that, including the times reporting the various sectors looking to do so. it seems like they will go ahead, it

seems like they will go ahead, it seems the government may be has not engaged as much as it could. it is true however that travel has changed since covid, on my own commute i see farfewer since covid, on my own commute i see far fewer people since covid, on my own commute i see farfewer people on since covid, on my own commute i see far fewer people on the trains on mondays and fridays for example, people working from home much more, so it seems i must be balanced to be achieved but we have not got there. james, what do you think is the balances? earlierthe james, what do you think is the balances? earlier the transport secretary said it is not for the government to intervene and on the front page of the guardian you have anger about ministers not getting more involved in the effort to halt the strikes. in more involved in the effort to halt the strikes-_ the strikes. in the words of the brilliant mandy _ the strikes. in the words of the brilliant mandy rice _ the strikes. in the words of the brilliant mandy rice davies, . the strikes. in the words of the | brilliant mandy rice davies, the government would say that, wouldn't it? many— government would say that, wouldn't it? many tories today have spoken, some _ it? many tories today have spoken, some anonymously, but on the front pa-e some anonymously, but on the front page of— some anonymously, but on the front page of the — some anonymously, but on the front page of the geri a senior tory said negotiations demand consistency and

strength, _ negotiations demand consistency and strength, this government has neitheh — strength, this government has neither. at the former rail minister jake berry— neither. at the former rail minister jake berry in the guardian that the government house to get around the negotiating table with the unions, especially as network rail is a government organisation. —— the government has to get around the negotiating table. i think they're reprehensible and i agree with what sir keir_ reprehensible and i agree with what sir keir starmer said today, it is almost — sir keir starmer said today, it is almost like _ sir keir starmer said today, it is almost like the government want the strike _ almost like the government want the strike to _ almost like the government want the strike to happen because it will encourage divisions, which we know boris _ encourage divisions, which we know borisjohnson thrives encourage divisions, which we know boris johnson thrives on, he encourage divisions, which we know borisjohnson thrives on, he is encourage divisions, which we know boris johnson thrives on, he is a load _ boris johnson thrives on, he is a load of— boris johnson thrives on, he is a load of misrule, he loves staring up chaos— load of misrule, he loves staring up chaos and _ load of misrule, he loves staring up chaos and what more chaos than a week-long — chaos and what more chaos than a week—long rail strike, the first for more _ week—long rail strike, the first for more than — week—long rail strike, the first for more than 30 years in this country. i more than 30 years in this country. i must _ more than 30 years in this country. i mustiumo— more than 30 years in this country. i mustjump in, as you would expect, and save the government would probably object to that and say they want the unions to get around the table with talks to find a way ahead. going on to the mettraux, network derailed, to what you said

earlier, geri, the impact on commuters, because unsurprisingly thatis commuters, because unsurprisingly that is what the mettraux have focused on, commuters will scramble for the last train home tomorrow when the network rail goes into shutdown —— that is what the metro have focused on. what about a level of support that these strikes have elicited? , ., , , of support that these strikes have elicited? , ., _ ., , ., , elicited? obviously lots of people commute by _ elicited? obviously lots of people commute by rail _ elicited? obviously lots of people commute by rail but _ elicited? obviously lots of people commute by rail but many - elicited? obviously lots of people commute by rail but many people don't, lots of people use buses, i have been in wakefield for the by—election this week and are campaigning about that and there is a bus strike going on at the moment, no buses running, that is really affecting the city so while rail strikes are a big deal for those commuting by train, that is quite a small subsection of people who commute by public transport. 0n the

support point, i think there is much more for the strike than previous ones. many people feel wages have not gone up for a long time, the cost of living is rising and while they might be worried about getting to work and might be annoyed that they may be can't do so, i think there is a certain support of people going, go on, i wish i could push to get my wager up too. if you listen to lots of radio:s there has been a difference in previous strikes to this one, because everyone is feeling the pinch —— if you listen to lots of radio call ins. feeling the pinch -- if you listen to lots of radio call ins.- to lots of radio call ins. james, have you _ to lots of radio call ins. james, have you noticed _ to lots of radio call ins. james, have you noticed a _ to lots of radio call ins. james, have you noticed a different. have you noticed a different level of support for this strike action compared to previous? i of support for this strike action compared to previous?- of support for this strike action compared to previous? i agree with geri and m — compared to previous? i agree with geri and i'm pleased _ compared to previous? i agree with geri and i'm pleased you _ compared to previous? i agree with geri and i'm pleased you jumped i compared to previous? i agree with geri and i'm pleased youjumped in| geri and i'm pleased youjumped in and presented the other point of view, _ and presented the other point of view, that— and presented the other point of view, that is yourjob. i absolutely agree _ view, that is yourjob. i absolutely agree with — view, that is yourjob. i absolutely agree with geri, in this march through— agree with geri, in this march through london, front line workers have been— through london, front line workers

have been saying from the front line to the _ have been saying from the front line to the breadline, that is one of the banners. _ to the breadline, that is one of the banners, they are honest, hard—working people who have toiled their whole life to help this country— their whole life to help this country and now they are sometimes, and i country and now they are sometimes, and i really— country and now they are sometimes, and i really hate to say this, in such— and i really hate to say this, in such dire — and i really hate to say this, in such dire straits about having to go to food _ such dire straits about having to go to food banks and in my view they are quite — to food banks and in my view they are quite rightly blaming the government about, inflation is rocketing — government about, inflation is rocketing towards 11%, might be heading — rocketing towards 11%, might be heading towards a recession and the government seems to be fiddling. in my view— government seems to be fiddling. in my view they seem to be doing very little to— my view they seem to be doing very little to avert this cost—of—living crisis _ little to avert this cost—of—living crisis so — little to avert this cost—of—living crisis so even though it is massively inconvenient, the general public— massively inconvenient, the general public support this strike because it plays _ public support this strike because it plays into all of our fears about going _ it plays into all of our fears about going hungry and not getting just deserts— going hungry and not getting just deserts for doing a greatjob going hungry and not getting just deserts for doing a great job that helps _ deserts for doing a great job that helps the — deserts for doing a great job that helps the country. deserts for doing a great 'ob that helps the countryh helps the country. james, that brin . s helps the country. james, that brinus us helps the country. james, that brings us nicely _ helps the country. james, that brings us nicely to _ helps the country. james, that brings us nicely to the - helps the country. james, that brings us nicely to the next - helps the country. james, that l brings us nicely to the next story which is macron being set to lose his grip on power, that is the

independent. we seem to have lost... no, it is still there. looking at what the election's projected results are in france, many people saying people that are voting with their feet around their concerns about living standards, the cost of living and what is said to be a fairly disastrous result for macron. you are quite right, it is a disaster _ you are quite right, it is a disaster. he has had a very comfortable five years, he breezed in from _ comfortable five years, he breezed in from nowhere, never stood for any political _ in from nowhere, never stood for any political office before he stood for president— political office before he stood for president and he won quite comfortably. he did not won so comfortable last time and many people — comfortable last time and many people said he wouldn't have if he had been — people said he wouldn't have if he had been up against anyone except marine _ had been up against anyone except marine le — had been up against anyone except marine le pen, who was so extreme that even— marine le pen, who was so extreme that even people who veered towards the right— that even people who veered towards the right voted against her. but

macron— the right voted against her. but macron seems to be feeling the hacklash— macron seems to be feeling the backlash now of what we are experiencing here, the cost of living — experiencing here, the cost of living crisis. because he comes from a wealthy— living crisis. because he comes from a wealthy background and has made a lot of money in banking is perceived, they call him the president for the richer in france, he only— president for the richer in france, he only seems to serve the elite and this is— he only seems to serve the elite and this is part _ he only seems to serve the elite and this is part of the surgeon populism we have _ this is part of the surgeon populism we have seen from brexit through donald _ we have seen from brexit through donald trump, through auburn in hungary— donald trump, through auburn in hungary -- — donald trump, through auburn in hungary —— part of the surge in populism _ hungary —— part of the surge in populism. people are seeing a patronising, entitled elite which thinks _ patronising, entitled elite which thinks it— patronising, entitled elite which thinks it is born to rule lunch macron— thinks it is born to rule lunch macron might fall into that category left and _ macron might fall into that category left and the far right have conspired against him —— which thinks — conspired against him —— which thinks it— conspired against him —— which thinks it is— conspired against him —— which thinks it is portugal, and micron might— thinks it is portugal, and micron might fall— thinks it is portugal, and micron might fall into that category. you might struggle to get legislation through, some of that was controversial anyway, like raising the retirement age, and it has become — the retirement age, and it has become more difficult without a majority —

become more difficult without a ma'ori . ., , become more difficult without a ma'ori . . , ., majority. call ins, on james's point about the wave _ majority. call ins, on james's point about the wave of _ majority. call ins, on james's point about the wave of populism, - majority. call ins, on james's point about the wave of populism, in - about the wave of populism, in hindsight do you think people should not have found it unsurprising that marine le pen made the projected gain that she has? —— geri, and james' point about the wave of populism. i james' point about the wave of -o - ulism. ~ james' point about the wave of --oulism. ,, ., , james' point about the wave of --oulism. ,, . , , ., , james' point about the wave of --oulism. ,, . ,, ., , , populism. i think what this shows is that these cost _ populism. i think what this shows is that these cost of _ populism. i think what this shows is that these cost of living _ populism. i think what this shows is that these cost of living pressures, | that these cost of living pressures, we can say may be the government here should be doing more, i don't think there are many people not calling for that but there are global issues at play, i sound like i am speaking for the government but the war in ukraine has had an impact. but does not mean more cannot be done but it is notjust the uk experiencing these problems. john populism, you can't write off political figures like marine le pen, they're obviously those are very sympathetic to other viewpoints who will want to continue to have

their voice heard, i do not think he will have an easy ride in the years ahead and i think the same can probably be said for any government in this country. probably be said for any government in this country-— in this country. from politics to be very political— in this country. from politics to be very political issue _ in this country. from politics to be very political issue in _ in this country. from politics to be very political issue in sport, - in this country. from politics to be very political issue in sport, this . very political issue in sport, this is the sport section of the daily telegraph, swimming bans transgender athletes from women's races, this is something announced just earlier this evening. james, i want your thoughts on this. is there something you fight not particularly surprising given that has been much coverage on the subject in recent years? i coverage on the sub'ect in recent ears? ., , , , , years? i find it not surprising but i also years? i find it not surprising but i also find _ years? i find it not surprising but i also find it _ years? i find it not surprising but i also find it astonishing - years? i find it not surprising but i also find it astonishing the - years? i find it not surprising but i also find it astonishing the way | i also find it astonishing the way in the _ i also find it astonishing the way in the past — i also find it astonishing the way in the past two or three years it has become such an incendiary issue, look at _ has become such an incendiary issue, look at the _ has become such an incendiary issue, look at the storm about get —— a raging _ look at the storm about get —— a raging golfing jk rowling. i think

newspapers sometimes make it far too simplistic— newspapers sometimes make it far too simplistic in _ newspapers sometimes make it far too simplistic in their coverage and i would _ simplistic in their coverage and i would include the government in that, _ would include the government in that, which in my view sometimes seems _ that, which in my view sometimes seems to— that, which in my view sometimes seems to use it to fuel the culture wars _ seems to use it to fuel the culture wars which — seems to use it to fuel the culture wars which they seem to relish, staring — wars which they seem to relish, staring discontent across the nation — staring discontent across the nation. the swimming governing body has released plans for an open category— has released plans for an open category which would include transgender women, for some people but might— transgender women, for some people but might still seem to be exclusive so i but might still seem to be exclusive so i don't _ but might still seem to be exclusive so i don't know if it will be enough to satisfy— so i don't know if it will be enough to satisfy the critics but all sporting bodies face massive issues with this _ sporting bodies face massive issues with this particular subject and i do not _ with this particular subject and i do not envy them, it is hard not to undertake — do not envy them, it is hard not to undertake-— do not envy them, it is hard not to undertake. geri, what do you think of fina's decision, _ undertake. geri, what do you think of fina's decision, do _ undertake. geri, what do you think of fina's decision, do you - undertake. geri, what do you think of fina's decision, do you think. undertake. geri, what do you think| of fina's decision, do you think the call was inevitable? i of fina's decision, do you think the call was inevitable?— call was inevitable? i think a lot of sorts call was inevitable? i think a lot of sports bodies _ call was inevitable? i think a lot of sports bodies will _ call was inevitable? i think a lot of sports bodies will have - call was inevitable? i think a lot of sports bodies will have to - call was inevitable? i think a lot - of sports bodies will have to answer this question but what i find more interesting, there was a study by the more in common group which says

the more in common group which says the british public do not really care much about this issue, however much politicians and journalists talk about it and how incendiary the debate gets online, the british public are more about issues like the cost of living. i don't think your general voter cares that much as long as people are left to get on with fair lives in the way they see fit. , , ., ., with fair lives in the way they see fit. ,, ., ., ., , ., fit. on the issue of what matters to --eole, fit. on the issue of what matters to people. what _ fit. on the issue of what matters to people, what might _ fit. on the issue of what matters to people, what might be _ fit. on the issue of what matters to people, what might be more - fit. on the issue of what matters to people, what might be more of - fit. on the issue of what matters to people, what might be more of an| people, what might be more of an issueis people, what might be more of an issue is climate change, the issue constantly living in the background that does not necessarily always get front—page coverage, but on the front—page coverage, but on the front of the ft they have their heaters on, wildfires rage across europe, has this been on the front of your mind or a concern with the temperatures we have seen in france and india? i’m temperatures we have seen in france and india? �* ., ., ., and india? i'm of an age where where i crew u-

and india? i'm of an age where where i grew up it — and india? i'm of an age where where i grew up it was _ and india? i'm of an age where where i grew up it was not _ and india? i'm of an age where where i grew up it was not nearly _ and india? i'm of an age where where i grew up it was not nearly such - and india? i'm of an age where where i grew up it was not nearly such a - i grew up it was not nearly such a prominent — i grew up it was not nearly such a prominent issue but through great, and i_ prominent issue but through great, and i mean — prominent issue but through great, and i mean those words sincerely, great _ and i mean those words sincerely, great campaigners like greta thunberg, young people have driven this debate to make older generations like me take notice and realise _ generations like me take notice and realise there is no more vital issue in the _ realise there is no more vital issue in the world — realise there is no more vital issue in the world. i interviewed a wildlife _ in the world. i interviewed a wildlife photographer who uses drones— wildlife photographer who uses drones to go after natural disasters to search _ drones to go after natural disasters to search for lost animals and he went— to search for lost animals and he went into — to search for lost animals and he went into the australian bush after it was— went into the australian bush after it was destroyed by the worst ever hushfires — it was destroyed by the worst ever bushfires and 3 billion animals had been _ bushfires and 3 billion animals had been lost — bushfires and 3 billion animals had been lost in that fire, that is the cataclysmic effect of climate change _ cataclysmic effect of climate change. i believe there was another international meeting about climate change _ international meeting about climate change today and campaigners were tearing _ change today and campaigners were tearing their hair out because as alok— tearing their hair out because as alok sharma did last year, it ended in tears _ alok sharma did last year, it ended in tears because he could not get anyjoy_ in tears because he could not get anyjoy out— in tears because he could not get anyjoy out of the international community sol

anyjoy out of the international community so i feel very passionately that even though i might— passionately that even though i might not be there to witness it we have to _ might not be there to witness it we have to make a change or they will not be _ have to make a change or they will not be humans in 100 or 200 years. the images — not be humans in 100 or 200 years. the images you bring up of the disastrous impact on wildlife in australia, i remember vividly and i'm sure you both due too, the kabbalah suffering from severe burns as a result of the wildfires, crawling along —— the koala suffering from severe burns. now that things have turned the tide of awareness and people caring about climate change and wanting to do something about it, has there been a shift? i something about it, has there been a shift? ~' something about it, has there been a shift? ~ ~ , .,, shift? i think so, i think people are more _ shift? i think so, i think people are more aware _ shift? i think so, i think people are more aware and _ shift? i think so, i think people are more aware and i _ shift? i think so, i think people are more aware and i think - shift? i think so, i think people i are more aware and i think people care. it is all very well people saying they can but it is a different matter when it hits their pockets, for example things like green levies on energy bills, we have spoken about the cost of living a lot and people are concerned about

them and those who say they are important will say they had to make that transition to net zero by 2050, which is the target and the amond in the long—term it will help to bring energy bills down, but in the short—term i think people feel like that money could maybe be diverted elsewhere, that is a debate for others but i think that debate is going on and people feel they could do without money in their pockets now. ., , ., , do without money in their pockets now. . , . , ,., now. that is an interesting point and, now. that is an interesting point and. james. _ now. that is an interesting point and. james. l— now. that is an interesting point and, james, i don't _ now. that is an interesting point and, james, i don't know- now. that is an interesting point and, james, i don't know what l now. that is an interesting point i and, james, i don't know what you think about this poll between what needs to be journeying terms of tackling climate change and the pressing issue of being able to just put food on the table and put the heating on that will affect more and more of us as this cost—of—living crisis bites —— i don't know what you think about the pole between. it you think about the pole between. it is all very well journalists you think about the pole between. it

is all very welljournalists like myself — is all very welljournalists like myself who are relatively comfortably off to say