clear skies to take us into start to sunday and some southern and eastern areas. not faring badly through sunday once again but generally speaking, here and across the south—east of england it is going to be a dry day with some sunshine for top isolated showers. more cloud in the west and some longer spells of rain at times but he bit of brightness to come, too. bye for now. hello, this is bbc news with lukwesa burak. the headlines: protests across america as the supreme court overturns a woman's constitutional right to have an abortion. here to have an abortion. in tennessee is one of 13 states here in tennessee is one of 13 states that will make it nearly impossible for women to have abortions even in the most severe circumstances. it has four decades divided america and is now being fought out across state lines. but many are delighted by the court's decision — around a dozen states are already moving to ban the procedure. police in norway say they're treating a shooting at a gay nightclub as a terrorist attack. the uk prime minister borisjohnson says he intends to "take the country forward" as backbench conservative

mps consider fresh attempts to force him from power. a third day of strike action on the uk's rail network — only a fifth of train services are expected to run. now it's time for dateline with kasia madera. hello and a very warm welcome to dateline london. i'm kasia madera. it's very good of you to be with us today. this week, we're discussing the us supreme court overturning a 50—year—old ruling that legalised abortion nationwide and look at its implication for millions of american women. we'll also be discussing the aftermath of the recent

by—elections here in the uk and will be asking what the losses for the conservative party mean for the future of boris johnson and his government, and we're also going to investigate allegations that russia is deporting captured ukrainians, including children. today for dateline london, we're joined by the uk's veteran political commentator, steve richards, also joining us, ned temko from the christian science monitor and we welcome vera krichevskaya, the founder of moscow's tv channel rain tv that is actually banned by president putin. welcome to you all, it's really great to have you all here. we great to have you all here. are going to start with t supreme we are going to start with the us supreme court. it has voted to overturn the landmark ruling that legalised abortion almost 50 years ago. it struck down the roe v. wade decision weeks after a leaked document suggested that it favoured doing so. this decision paves the way for half the country to severely restrict or completely ban

terminations. net, it makes sense to start with you. i want to pick up on something your publication has written —— ned. the draft was leaked. we are not really surprised but as your publication, the christian science monitor has said, this decision was unthinkable just a few years ago. we are seeing a monumental change across the united states. it’s monumental change across the united states. �* , ., monumental change across the united states. �*, ., , ., states. it's almost impossible to overstate the — states. it's almost impossible to overstate the significance - states. it's almost impossible to overstate the significance and i states. it's almost impossible to i overstate the significance and there have been periods ofjudicial activism by the supreme court in the past, most famously in the late 19505, 605, 705 over civil rights legislation but the difference was that was explicitly extending a right or a series of rates that were at the court of the american project of the constitution and its equality under the law, equal access, of the constitution and its equality underthe law, equalaccess, equal treatment. this is the first time

the supreme court, for political reasons because of the change and balance of the supreme court's membership is removing a rate that has been law for 50 years and in the short term, within hours, some of these trigger laws in republican party ruled states are already, as we speak, limiting and almost banning abortions. then in the medium to longer term, i think there will be huge social and political repercussions because of whole generations of american women — and this is not a partisan issue if you're a young woman seeing, all of a sudden, a basic rate or what you assume to be a basic rate taken away by the supreme court. i think there will be repercussions and potentially even repercussions in

the form of a backlash at the polls against those who have been militating for this change for years. militating for this change for ears. . �* militating for this change for ears. , �* . ., militating for this change for ears. , �* .., ., years. president biden came out cuickl to years. president biden came out quickly to talk— years. president biden came out quickly to talk about _ years. president biden came out quickly to talk about this - years. president biden came out quickly to talk about this and - years. president biden came out quickly to talk about this and he | quickly to talk about this and he sounded upset, he sounded angry and very emotive. he was talking about this idea of helping women reach the states, travel to states where they can potentially access, but it's not easy, as easy as that. i can potentially access, but it's not easy, as easy as that.— easy, as easy as that. i thought it was an impressive _ easy, as easy as that. i thought it was an impressive response, - easy, as easy as that. i thought it - was an impressive response, because the anger— was an impressive response, because the anger was genuine it sort of energised — the anger was genuine it sort of energised him but i found it so interesting to watch an energised president, the supposedly mighty president of the united states, utterly— president of the united states, utterly impotent to do anything about _ utterly impotent to do anything about what ned has suggested is a

sort of— about what ned has suggested is a sort of revolution taking place in the united states. i know the united states_ the united states. i know the united states constitution is this glorious kind of. _ states constitution is this glorious kind of, apparently elegant mix of checks_ kind of, apparently elegant mix of checks and balances of power, but i sometimes — checks and balances of power, but i sometimes think it is all over the place _ sometimes think it is all over the place so — sometimes think it is all over the place so this is donald trump's supreme — place so this is donald trump's supreme court in effect rendering the new_ supreme court in effect rendering the new president unable to do anything — the new president unable to do anything about this extraordinary change _ anything about this extraordinary change so — anything about this extraordinary change so that's really, just watching _ change so that's really, just watching from a distance, the practical— watching from a distance, the practical measures, there are states where _ practical measures, there are states where abortion will still be available so may some can go there but as— available so may some can go there but as biden mentioned, there will be many— but as biden mentioned, there will be many poor people who will be affected — be many poor people who will be affected by this and maybe they won't _ affected by this and maybe they won't have the time, the money to -et won't have the time, the money to get to— won't have the time, the money to get to other— won't have the time, the money to get to other states and so this is goingm — get to other states and so this is goingm my— get to other states and so this is going... my favourite word in politics— going... my favourite word in politics has consequences, the

consequences of this are many and deeu _ consequences of this are many and dee -. �* ., . consequences of this are many and dee -. �* .. .,, consequences of this are many and dee.�* ., deep. and we will reach those in a moment. deep. and we will reach those in a moment- ned. — deep. and we will reach those in a moment. ned, i'll— deep. and we will reach those in a moment. ned, i'll come _ deep. and we will reach those in a moment. ned, i'll come back- deep. and we will reach those in a moment. ned, i'll come back to l deep. and we will reach those in a i moment. ned, i'll come back to you on that. vera, when we witness changes against abortion rates in poland for example, we witness the tens of thousands of women going out on the streets in warsaw in different towns and cities across poland, it's fascinating to see it from that kind of perspective as to what is happening in such an influential country, in the united states. �* ,, . ,, influential country, in the united states.�* ,, . ,, ., states. i'm speechless. today i felt that i am states. i'm speechless. today i felt that i am part _ states. i'm speechless. today i felt that i am part of — states. i'm speechless. today i felt that i am part of second _ states. i'm speechless. today i felt that i am part of second class - that i am part of second class citizens — that i am part of second class citizens because _ that i am part of second class citizens because i— that i am part of second class citizens because i feel- that i am part of second class citizens because i feel so- that i am part of second class- citizens because i feel so because my rights, — citizens because i feel so because my rights, not— citizens because i feel so because my rights, not mine _ citizens because i feel so because my rights, not mine because - citizens because i feel so because my rights, not mine because i'ml citizens because i feel so because i my rights, not mine because i'm not american. _ my rights, not mine because i'm not american. hut— my rights, not mine because i'm not american, but women's _ my rights, not mine because i'm not american, but women's rights - my rights, not mine because i'm not american, but women's rights werel american, but women's rights were taken _ american, but women's rights were taken it's— american, but women's rights were taken. it's nonsense. _ american, but women's rights were taken. it's nonsense. speechless. i taken. it's nonsense. speechless. when— taken. it's nonsense. speechless. when we — taken. it's nonsense. speechless. when we talk— taken. it's nonsense. speechless. when we talk about _ taken. it's nonsense. speechless. when we talk about the _ taken. it's nonsense. speechless. i when we talk about the consequences, and i think a lot of people are making their feelings very, very

vocal and many, making their feelings very, very vocaland many, many making their feelings very, very vocal and many, many women are saying similar to what you have just said, vera, lots of people are not as well. a lot of people have been campaigning for a long time for this, ned and that also has to be understood. this, ned and that also has to be understood-— this, ned and that also has to be understood. . , ., , ., ., understood. yeah, this was not an accident. indeed, _ understood. yeah, this was not an accident. indeed, one _ understood. yeah, this was not an accident. indeed, one of— understood. yeah, this was not an accident. indeed, one of the i accident. indeed, one of the frustrations for those who wanted to defend roe v. wade was, to put it mildly, an element of subterfuge involved in the congressional part of the path that got us here in that when president obama had a vacancy to fill on the supreme court in the final year of his administration of the then republican run senate, they refused to even consider his nominee then very, very near the end of the trump administration, they fast tracked a nominee for trump so, in effect, as steve said, trump has three nominees on this court

fulfilling a long, explicit aim for leaders on the right of the republican party to get rid of roe v. wade. and what the long—term consequences are as hard to tell but i think one thing that bears watching is one of trump's vulnerabilities at the poles turned out to be suburban republican women who are traditionally rock—solid, or many of them have been, republican party supporters who were so alienate by his behaviour, what he did. this is a very real — and you touched on this — this is a unifying cause which touches women voters whether you are young, old, republican, democrat, and i think it

may be a question of be careful what you wish for if you are on the right of the republican party and trying for a long time. it's not clear to me that there won't be a backlash. there is something the president can do but we were discussing earlier, he is not going to do it.— he is not going to do it. packing the supreme — he is not going to do it. packing the supreme court _ he is not going to do it. packing the supreme court would i he is not going to do it. packing the supreme court would be i he is not going to do it. packing the supreme court would be a l he is not going to do it. packing i the supreme court would be a risky thing _ the supreme court would be a risky thing to— the supreme court would be a risky thing to do— the supreme court would be a risky thing to do because it would end up like the _ thing to do because it would end up like the house of lords here, every time _ like the house of lords here, every time a _ like the house of lords here, every time a new— like the house of lords here, every time a new president comes in, that packing _ time a new president comes in, that packing would continue and become ahsurd~ _ packing would continue and become absurd. apparently that is the only mechanism and it's not going to be deployed — mechanism and it's not going to be deployed. it's very interesting hearing — deployed. it's very interesting hearing ned talking about what happens when the evangelical right who have _ happens when the evangelical right who have been campaigning wins. uk

politics— who have been campaigning wins. uk politics is— who have been campaigning wins. uk politics is bonkers at the moment but british— politics is bonkers at the moment but british politics is pretty secular— but british politics is pretty secular so it's interesting when you have this _ secular so it's interesting when you have this victory. i faint from my experience — have this victory. i faint from my experience of politics that some of those _ experience of politics that some of those who — experience of politics that some of those who just love experience of politics that some of those whojust love campaigning, going _ those whojust love campaigning, going to — those whojust love campaigning, going to meetings, getting very angry, — going to meetings, getting very angry, when they actually win, run a mile _ angry, when they actually win, run a mile let— angry, when they actually win, run a mile let see — angry, when they actually win, run a mile. let see what happens. maybe they are _ mile. let see what happens. maybe they are feeling euphoric at the moment — they are feeling euphoric at the moment. but when stories emerge, as president _ moment. but when stories emerge, as president biden said in his response, what happens if someone is a victim _ response, what happens if someone is a victim of— response, what happens if someone is a victim of incest and so on? these stories— a victim of incest and so on? these stories are — a victim of incest and so on? these stories are vivid, if they emerge, and that— stories are vivid, if they emerge, and that is— stories are vivid, if they emerge, and that is when i think the backiash— and that is when i think the backlash could be wider than some of those _ backlash could be wider than some of those who— backlash could be wider than some of those who have been campaigning for this are _ those who have been campaigning for this are contemplated while they were _ this are contemplated while they were enjoying the anger and passion of the _ were enjoying the anger and passion of the campaign. will were enjoying the anger and passion of the campaign-— of the campaign. will see that backiash- _ of the campaign. will see that backlash. as _ of the campaign. will see that backlash. as ned _ of the campaign. will see that backlash. as ned was - of the campaign. will see that backlash. as ned was saying, | of the campaign. will see that i backlash. as ned was saying, the consequences. vera, when it comes to

what russia is looking at, monitoring what is happening in the us, how do you think this is going to be relayed back to the russian people, this decision that is so polarising in that country? i think... i'm guessing now, but i think— think... i'm guessing now, but i think propaganda _ think... i'm guessing now, but i think propaganda would - think... i'm guessing now, but i think propaganda would use i think... i'm guessing now, but i think propaganda would use it. think propaganda would use it against — think propaganda would use it against the _ think propaganda would use it against the states _ think propaganda would use it against the states obviously. i think propaganda would use it. against the states obviously. at think propaganda would use it- against the states obviously. at the same _ against the states obviously. at the same time, — against the states obviously. at the same time, it's— against the states obviously. at the same time, it's a _ against the states obviously. at the same time, it's a tricky— against the states obviously. at the same time, it's a tricky one - against the states obviously. at thel same time, it's a tricky one because russia _ same time, it's a tricky one because russia is— same time, it's a tricky one because russia is driving _ same time, it's a tricky one because russia is driving two _ same time, it's a tricky one because russia is driving two very _ russia is driving two very conservative _ russia is driving two very conservative society i russia is driving two very conservative society and i russia is driving two very i conservative society and we russia is driving two very - conservative society and we heard such voices — conservative society and we heard such voices from _ conservative society and we heard such voices from church _ conservative society and we heard such voices from church last - conservative society and we heard l such voices from church last years, but i _ such voices from church last years, but i would — such voices from church last years, but i would rather— such voices from church last years, but i would rather propaganda i such voices from church last years, but i would rather propaganda was| but i would rather propaganda was used to— but i would rather propaganda was used to show. _ but i would rather propaganda was used to show, look, _ but i would rather propaganda was used to show, look, this _ but i would rather propaganda was used to show, look, this is - but i would rather propaganda was used to show, look, this is the i used to show, look, this is the states, — used to show, look, this is the states, come— used to show, look, this is the states, come on. _ used to show, look, this is the states, come on.— used to show, look, this is the states, come on. divisions within that country. _ states, come on. divisions within

that country, absolutely. - boris johnson's borisjohnson's conservative party lost two by—elections this week. is there something fundamental going on? are we meant to read into this? they are by—elections after all. but they are by-elections after all. but the can they are by-elections after all. but they can be — they are by—elections after all. but they can be significant, it depends on the _ they can be significant, it depends on the context in which they take place _ on the context in which they take place the — on the context in which they take place. the two by—elections, one in a seat _ place. the two by—elections, one in a seat in _ place. the two by—elections, one in a seat in the — place. the two by—elections, one in a seat in the southwest of england and another in the previously labour held territory which boris johnson won in— held territory which boris johnson won in december 2019, to lose both following _ won in december 2019, to lose both following a — won in december 2019, to lose both following a vote of confidence from your own _ following a vote of confidence from your own mps earlier in the same month— your own mps earlier in the same month where he kind of struggled on but not _ month where he kind of struggled on but not with a great triumphant win

means— but not with a great triumphant win means it _ but not with a great triumphant win means it will create further speculation about his leadership and a former— speculation about his leadership and a former conservative leader, michael— a former conservative leader, michael howard, speaks cautiously when _ michael howard, speaks cautiously when he _ michael howard, speaks cautiously when he says he should resign, joining — when he says he should resign, joining those who have already called — joining those who have already called on — joining those who have already called on that to happen, a growing number— called on that to happen, a growing number of— called on that to happen, a growing number of tory backbenchers. white itiu l number of tory backbenchers. white mug you've — number of tory backbenchers. white mug you've also had his co—chairman quit mug you've also had his co—chairman guit as _ mug you've also had his co—chairman guit as welt — mug you've also had his co—chairman quit as well. in a way that is the most _ quit as well. in a way that is the most significant thing that has happened. it hardly ever happens outside _ happened. it hardly ever happens outside elections but when it does, it is when— outside elections but when it does, it is when the cabinet turns. there is no _ it is when the cabinet turns. there is no saying — it is when the cabinet turns. there is no saying that anyone else is going _ is no saying that anyone else is going to — is no saying that anyone else is going to follow yet, it's a weak and timid _ going to follow yet, it's a weak and timid cabinet, dependent on boris johnson's — timid cabinet, dependent on boris johnson's patronage, but the chairman— johnson's patronage, but the chairman went in the early hours of the morning — chairman went in the early hours of the morning after the by—election with a _ the morning after the by—election with a very— the morning after the by—election with a very scathing letter so that fuels _ with a very scathing letter so that fuels the — with a very scathing letter so that fuels the turbulence. the big question— fuels the turbulence. the big question remains, what is the trigger— question remains, what is the trigger to— question remains, what is the trigger to remove him? question remains, what is the triggerto remove him? he question remains, what is the trigger to remove him? he won't go voluntarily. — trigger to remove him? he won't go voluntarily, that's the only certainty in the current situation.

at the _ certainty in the current situation. at the other certainty is it will trigger— at the other certainty is it will trigger a _ at the other certainty is it will trigger a summer of turmoil for him. when _ trigger a summer of turmoil for him. when it— trigger a summer of turmoil for him. when it comes to what is happening in the little details, i wonder how much interest for your application, are you looking at these details are the bigger picture? borisjohnson, this is happening in the uk, but at the moment he is visiting rwanda and will be in germany for the g7, spain for nato, what perspective are you taking? for nato, what perspective are you takin: ? ., .., for nato, what perspective are you takin: ? ., ., ., for nato, what perspective are you taking? political high drama always makes good _ taking? political high drama always makes good copy — taking? political high drama always makes good copy and _ taking? political high drama always makes good copy and boris, - taking? political high drama always i makes good copy and boris, whatever his other faults, makes good copy and boris, whatever his otherfaults, is makes good copy and boris, whatever his other faults, is or was an entertainer as a politician, not always for the right reasons. the mirror image was that the rest of the world couldn't take it size of donald trump during the trump administration.— donald trump during the trump administration. he's watched as much? only _ administration. he's watched as much? only for— administration. he's watched as much? only for curiosity - administration. he's watched as much? only for curiosity value i administration. he's watched as i much? only for curiosity value but obviously this _ much? only for curiosity value but obviously this is _ much? only for curiosity value but obviously this is a _ much? only for curiosity value but obviously this is a close _ much? only for curiosity value but

obviously this is a close ally. it's l obviously this is a close ally. it's a democracy, it is the mother of democracies, mother of parliaments, so this is interesting. the only thing i would add to what steve said is the other side of the equation and that is labour. it's clear the tories are in deep trouble and i'd be curious to see whether steve agrees, my sense is we are not quite at what may be called tony blair new labour moment and for those of you who are lucky enough to be young enough not to remember tony blair or new labour, in the 19905... we enough not to remember tony blair or new labour, in the 1990s. . ._ new labour, in the 1990s... we are all of that age! _ new labour, in the 1990s... we are all of that age! in _ new labour, in the 1990s... we are all of that age! in the _ new labour, in the 1990s... we are all of that age! in the 1990s - new labour, in the 1990s... we are all of that age! in the 1990s by i new labour, in the 1990s... we are all of that age! in the 1990s by the | all of that age! in the 1990s by the time of the — all of that age! in the 1990s by the time of the election _ time of the election you had a tired conservative government, you had internal differences within the conservative party, they had been in power for 18 years. the conservative party, they had been in powerfor 18 years. the road conservative party, they had been in power for 18 years. the road was up, very much the way some people feel about the current conservative government. but you also had a sense

of almost inevitability, and we forget this young, bright, articulate, well—prepared alternative government was waiting in the wings, and you had a sense of a tide turning and i don't get that sense quite yet with the current labour party and keir starmer. i5 sense quite yet with the current labour party and keir starmer. is it somethin: labour party and keir starmer. is it something you _ labour party and keir starmer. is it something you think we are on the cusp of change in this country or not? ., �* ., , , ., not? right now, i'm the wrong person to ask because — not? right now, i'm the wrong person to ask because i _ not? right now, i'm the wrong person to ask because i follow— not? right now, i'm the wrong person to ask because i follow ukrainian i to ask because i follow ukrainian perspectives _ to ask because i follow ukrainian perspectives. boris _ to ask because i follow ukrainian perspectives. borisjohnson- to ask because i follow ukrainian perspectives. borisjohnson is i to ask because i follow ukrainian perspectives. boris johnson is a i to ask because i follow ukrainian i perspectives. borisjohnson is a key in ukraine _ perspectives. borisjohnson is a key in ukraine now— perspectives. borisjohnson is a key in ukraine now —— _ perspectives. borisjohnson is a key in ukraine now —— is— perspectives. borisjohnson is a key in ukraine now —— is a _ perspectives. borisjohnson is a key in ukraine now —— is a hero, - perspectives. borisjohnson is a key in ukraine now —— is a hero, and. in ukraine now —— is a hero, and everything— in ukraine now —— is a hero, and everything he _ in ukraine now —— is a hero, and everything he does— in ukraine now —— is a hero, and everything he does towards i in ukraine now —— is a hero, and- everything he does towards ukraine, it triggers _ everything he does towards ukraine, it triggers the — everything he does towards ukraine, it triggers the different _ everything he does towards ukraine, it triggers the different feelings i it triggers the different feelings and emotions _ it triggers the different feelings and emotions so _ it triggers the different feelings and emotions so that's - it triggers the different feelings and emotions so that's why i'm| it triggers the different feelings i and emotions so that's why i'm the wrong _ and emotions so that's why i'm the wrong person— and emotions so that's why i'm the wrong person because _ and emotions so that's why i'm the wrong person because each - and emotions so that's why i'm the wrong person because each time i and emotions so that's why i'm thei wrong person because each time he stands _ wrong person because each time he stands next — wrong person because each time he stands next to— wrong person because each time he stands next to president _ wrong person because each time he stands next to president zelensky l wrong person because each time he stands next to president zelensky it

makes _ stands next to president zelensky it makes an— stands next to president zelensky it makes an even— stands next to president zelensky it makes an even bigger. _ stands next to president zelensky it makes an even bigger. -- _ stands next to president zelensky it makes an even bigger. -- it- stands next to president zelensky it makes an even bigger. -- it makesl makes an even bigger. z:- him makes an even bigger. it makes him even bigger. makes an even bigger. -- it makes him even bigger. will _ makes an even bigger. -- it makes him even bigger. will talk - makes an even bigger. -- it makes him even bigger. will talk about i him even bigger. will talk about ukraine in a _ him even bigger. will talk about ukraine in a moment _ him even bigger. will talk about ukraine in a moment by - him even bigger. will talk about ukraine in a moment by going i him even bigger. will talk about i ukraine in a moment by going back to what ned was saying, what do you reckon about change?, steve? there is a tide against _ reckon about change?, steve? there is a tide against this _ reckon about change?, steve? iii? is a tide against this government. it has been in powerfor 12 years. this is its fourth term and it will be looking for a fifth. but there isn't the same tidal shift towards a labour that there was in the build to 1997, but we wrongly called me a veteran, i'm still rocking and their young, but i'm told there are many times in british politics when there isn't an obvious enthusiasm for one party or another and it may be that britain is staggering towards a hung parliament but if that is the case there will be a labour government because the smaller parties would back a change of government and not give this lot another term, so it

may be a more clumsy, less tangible tidal wave than 1997 under tony blair, but i feel there is a shift. they have just lost two by—elections. they have just lost two by-elections._ they have just lost two by-elections. they have just lost two b -elections. �* i, by-elections. but last time that happened. _ by-elections. but last time that happened. the _ by-elections. but last time that happened, the then _ by-elections. but last time that l happened, the then government by-elections. but last time that - happened, the then government went on to win the election. in happened, the then government went on to win the election.— on to win the election. in 2010 there was _ on to win the election. in 2010 there was a — on to win the election. in 2010 there was a coalition, - on to win the election. in 2010 i there was a coalition, sometimes there _ there was a coalition, sometimes there is— there was a coalition, sometimes there is a — there was a coalition, sometimes there is a minority in the 705 which — there is a minority in the 705 which was _ there is a minority in the 705 which was similar to know in some respects — which was similar to know in some respects. there was in minority government, labour government which staggered _ government, labour government which staggered on for quite a few years so it doesn't always mean when one party— so it doesn't always mean when one party is _ so it doesn't always mean when one party is in _ so it doesn't always mean when one party is in trouble there's going to be a landslide for the other, so we may he _ be a landslide for the other, so we may he in— be a landslide for the other, so we may be in that sort of terrain. we watch and — may be in that sort of terrain. , watch and wait. we are all veterans here. ., ., ., ,., watch and wait. we are all veterans| here-— russia's here. no, we are all young! russia's attack on ukraine _ here. no, we are all young! russia's attack on ukraine grains _ here. no, we are all young! russia's

attack on ukraine grains on - here. no, we are all young! russia's attack on ukraine grains on and - here. no, we are all young! russia's attack on ukraine grains on and a . attack on ukraine grains on and a disturbing development emerging from the war is the huge displacement of people and also the allegations of deportations of hundreds of civilians and prisoners of war to remote parts of russia. vera, let's focus on what the allegations are here when it comes to people forcibly taken to russia. first of all, there are _ forcibly taken to russia. first of all, there are two _ forcibly taken to russia. first of all, there are two different - forcibly taken to russia. first of i all, there are two different groups of people. — all, there are two different groups of pe0pte. first _ all, there are two different groups of people, first it's— all, there are two different groups of people, first it's the _ all, there are two different groups of people, first it's the prisoners i of people, first it's the prisoners of people, first it's the prisoners of war. _ of people, first it's the prisoners of war. it — of people, first it's the prisoners of war. it is _ of people, first it's the prisoners of war, it is one _ of people, first it's the prisoners of war, it is one group— of people, first it's the prisoners of war, it is one group of- of people, first it's the prisoners of war, it is one group of peoplej of people, first it's the prisoners . of war, it is one group of people in this group— of war, it is one group of people in this group of— of war, it is one group of people in this group of people, _ of war, it is one group of people in this group of people, pow- of war, it is one group of people in this group of people, pow the - of war, it is one group of people in. this group of people, pow the mac, they are _ this group of people, pow the mac, they are placed _ this group of people, pow the mac, they are placed in _ this group of people, pow the mac, they are placed in a _ this group of people, pow the mac, they are placed in a prison - this group of people, pow the mac, they are placed in a prison that - this group of people, pow the mac, they are placed in a prison that was| they are placed in a prison that was previously— they are placed in a prison that was previously cleared _ they are placed in a prison that was previously cleared for— they are placed in a prison that was previously cleared for them - they are placed in a prison that was previously cleared for them or - previously cleared for them or special— previously cleared for them or special detention— previously cleared for them or special detention centres - previously cleared for them or. special detention centres mostly previously cleared for them or - special detention centres mostly in the south _ special detention centres mostly in the south of— special detention centres mostly in the south of russia _ special detention centres mostly in the south of russia and _ special detention centres mostly in the south of russia and we - special detention centres mostly in the south of russia and we do - special detention centres mostly in the south of russia and we do noti the south of russia and we do not have _ the south of russia and we do not have information _ the south of russia and we do not have information of _ the south of russia and we do not have information of what - the south of russia and we do not have information of what is - the south of russia and we do not have information of what is goingl the south of russia and we do not. have information of what is going on there _ have information of what is going on there i_ have information of what is going on there i saw— have information of what is going on there i saw many— have information of what is going on there. i saw many leaked _ have information of what is going on there. i saw many leaked videos- have information of what is going onj

there. i saw many leaked videos and photos— there. i saw many leaked videos and photos from — there. i saw many leaked videos and photos from such _ there. i saw many leaked videos and photos from such centres, _ there. i saw many leaked videos and photos from such centres, prisons, i photos from such centres, prisons, but every _ photos from such centres, prisons, but every footage _ photos from such centres, prisons, but every footage we _ photos from such centres, prisons, but every footage we have - photos from such centres, prisons, but every footage we have to - photos from such centres, prisons, l but every footage we have to verify, but every footage we have to verify, but what _ but every footage we have to verify, but what i _ but every footage we have to verify, but what i saw, _ but every footage we have to verify, but what i saw, i _ but every footage we have to verify, but what i saw, i saw— but every footage we have to verify, but what i saw, i saw a _ but every footage we have to verify, but what i saw, i saw a group - but every footage we have to verify, but what i saw, i saw a group of- but what i saw, i saw a group of people — but what i saw, i saw a group of people with _ but what i saw, i saw a group of people with masks _ but what i saw, i saw a group of people with masks on _ but what i saw, i saw a group of people with masks on their- but what i saw, i saw a group of| people with masks on their eyes walking — people with masks on their eyes walking with _ people with masks on their eyes walking with guards _ people with masks on their eyes walking with guards or - people with masks on their eyes walking with guards or sitting, l people with masks on their eyes l walking with guards or sitting, but i cannot— walking with guards or sitting, but i cannot verity _ walking with guards or sitting, but i cannot verify those _ walking with guards or sitting, but i cannot verify those photos. - i cannot verify those photos. another— i cannot verify those photos. another group _ i cannot verify those photos. another group of— i cannot verify those photos. another group of people - i cannot verify those photos. another group of people not| i cannot verify those photos. - another group of people not make the problem _ another group of people not make the problem is, _ another group of people not make the problem is, all— another group of people not make the problem is, all these _ another group of people not make the problem is, all these centres - another group of people not make the problem is, all these centres are - problem is, all these centres are run by— problem is, all these centres are run by fsb~ _ problem is, all these centres are run by fsb~ i— problem is, all these centres are run by fsb. i don't— problem is, all these centres are run by fsb. idon't know- problem is, all these centres are run by fsb. idon't know if- problem is, all these centres are run by fsb. i don't know if evenl run by fsb. i don't know if even single _ run by fsb. i don't know if even single states _ run by fsb. i don't know if even single states report, _ run by fsb. i don't know if even single states report, the - run by fsb. i don't know if even - single states report, the propaganda representative — single states report, the propaganda representative who _ single states report, the propaganda representative who was _ single states report, the propaganda representative who was there - single states report, the propaganda representative who was there and i representative who was there and filmed _ representative who was there and filmed there — representative who was there and filmed there inside _ representative who was there and filmed there inside the _ representative who was there and filmed there inside the centres, l filmed there inside the centres, propaganda _ filmed there inside the centres, propaganda released _ filmed there inside the centres, propaganda released several. filmed there inside the centres, . propaganda released several clips filmed there inside the centres, - propaganda released several clips of ukrainian _ propaganda released several clips of ukrainian prisoners, _ propaganda released several clips of ukrainian prisoners, they— propaganda released several clips of ukrainian prisoners, they were - propaganda released several clips of ukrainian prisoners, they were nice, j ukrainian prisoners, they were nice, tidy. _ ukrainian prisoners, they were nice, tidy. reading — ukrainian prisoners, they were nice, tidy, reading books _ ukrainian prisoners, they were nice, tidy, reading books and _ ukrainian prisoners, they were nice, tidy, reading books and watching - ukrainian prisoners, they were nice, i tidy, reading books and watching tv, but it— tidy, reading books and watching tv, but it is— tidy, reading books and watching tv, but it is part — tidy, reading books and watching tv, but it is part of— tidy, reading books and watching tv, but it is part of the _ tidy, reading books and watching tv, but it is part of the russian _ but it is part of the russian nretaverse. _ but it is part of the russian

metaverse, its _ but it is part of the russian metaverse, its show- but it is part of the russian . metaverse, its show business, but it is part of the russian - metaverse, its show business, it's notiournatisnr. _ metaverse, its show business, it's notiournatisnr. so— metaverse, its show business, it's notjournalism, so it's— metaverse, its show business, it's not journalism, so it's a _ metaverse, its show business, it's notjournalism, so it's a staged . notjournalism, so it's a staged story~ — notjournalism, so it's a staged story. another— notjournalism, so it's a staged story. another group— notjournalism, so it's a staged story. another group of- notjournalism, so it's a stagedl story. another group of people, notjournalism, so it's a staged - story. another group of people, it's based _ story. another group of people, it's based on _ story. another group of people, it's based on official— story. another group of people, it's based on official russian _ story. another group of people, it's based on official russian figures - based on official russian figures that were — based on official russian figures that were released _ based on official russian figures that were released a _ based on official russian figures that were released a week - based on official russian figures that were released a week ago, | that were released a week ago, 1,400,000 _ that were released a week ago, 1,400,000 people, _ that were released a week ago, 1,400,000 people, the - that were released a week ago, | 1,400,000 people, the refugee that were released a week ago, - 1,400,000 people, the refugee amount in 1,400,000 people, the refugee amount in russia _ 1,400,000 people, the refugee amount in russia those — 1,400,000 people, the refugee amount in russia. those people, _ 1,400,000 people, the refugee amount in russia. those people, most- 1,400,000 people, the refugee amount in russia. those people, most of- in russia. those people, most of them, _ in russia. those people, most of them, they— in russia. those people, most of them, they had _ in russia. those people, most of them, they had no— in russia. those people, most of them, they had no choice - in russia. those people, most of them, they had no choice to - in russia. those people, most of them, they had no choice to go l in russia. those people, most ofi them, they had no choice to go to their— them, they had no choice to go to their western _ them, they had no choice to go to their western countries, - them, they had no choice to go to their western countries, to - them, they had no choice to go to their western countries, to comel their western countries, to come back— their western countries, to come back to _ their western countries, to come back to other— their western countries, to come back to other parts _ their western countries, to come back to other parts of— their western countries, to come back to other parts of ukraine . their western countries, to come back to other parts of ukraine or| their western countries, to come i back to other parts of ukraine or go to russia, — back to other parts of ukraine or go to russia, they— back to other parts of ukraine or go to russia, they didn't _ back to other parts of ukraine or go to russia, they didn't have - back to other parts of ukraine or go to russia, they didn't have a - to russia, they didn't have a choice — to russia, they didn't have a choice many— to russia, they didn't have a choice. many sources... - to russia, they didn't have a choice. many sources... wel to russia, they didn't have a - choice. many sources... we know right— choice. many sources... we know right now— choice. many sources... we know right now nrany— choice. many sources... we know right now many refugees - choice. many sources... we knowl right now many refugees managed choice. many sources... we know- right now many refugees managed to close the _ right now many refugees managed to close the border— right now many refugees managed to close the border in _ right now many refugees managed to close the border in estonia _ right now many refugees managed to close the border in estonia with - right now many refugees managed to close the border in estonia with the l close the border in estonia with the help of— close the border in estonia with the help of independent _ close the border in estonia with the help of independent volunteers - close the border in estonia with the help of independent volunteers in i help of independent volunteers in russia, _ help of independent volunteers in russia, especially— help of independent volunteers in russia, especially in _ help of independent volunteers in russia, especially in st _ help of independent volunteers in l russia, especially in st petersburg, they help _ russia, especially in st petersburg, they help peopie _ russia, especially in st petersburg, they help peopie to _ russia, especially in st petersburg, they help people to cross _ russia, especially in st petersburg, they help people to cross the - russia, especially in st petersburg,| they help people to cross the border in they help people to cross the border in estonia _ they help people to cross the border in estonia and — they help people to cross the border in estonia and all— they help people to cross the border in estonia and all these _ they help people to cross the border in estonia and all these people - they help people to cross the border in estonia and all these people are l in estonia and all these people are our trusted — in estonia and all these people are our trusted sources— in estonia and all these people are our trusted sources now—

in estonia and all these people are our trusted sources now because l in estonia and all these people are i our trusted sources now because they are interviewed, — our trusted sources now because they are interviewed, they— our trusted sources now because they are interviewed, they tell— our trusted sources now because they are interviewed, they tell the - are interviewed, they tell the story. — are interviewed, they tell the story, how— are interviewed, they tell the story. how they— are interviewed, they tell the story, how they crossed i are interviewed, they tell the story, how they crossed the i are interviewed, they tell the - story, how they crossed the russian - ukrainian— story, how they crossed the russian — ukrainian border, _ story, how they crossed the russian — ukrainian border, how— story, how they crossed the russian — ukrainian border, how they- story, how they crossed the russian — ukrainian border, how they spend| — ukrainian border, how they spend weeks _ — ukrainian border, how they spend weeks in _ — ukrainian border, how they spend weeks in filtration _ — ukrainian border, how they spend weeks in filtration camp, _ — ukrainian border, how they spend weeks in filtration camp, how- — ukrainian border, how they spend weeks in filtration camp, how theyl weeks in filtration camp, how they were _ weeks in filtration camp, how they were interrogated, _ weeks in filtration camp, how they were interrogated, how— weeks in filtration camp, how they were interrogated, how they i weeks in filtration camp, how they were interrogated, how they werel were interrogated, how they were searched — were interrogated, how they were searched. and _ were interrogated, how they were searched. �* , ., , searched. and its those early testimonies _ searched. and its those early testimonies that _ searched. and its those early testimonies that are - searched. and its those early testimonies that are really i searched. and its those early i testimonies that are really crucial to gathering those testimonies, the fsb, the russian federal security service, but it's also the supreme council of ukraine, the commissioner of human rights, who gave those numbers that you were saying, vera, 1.3 million ukrainians including over 200,000 children that the commission of human rights were saying were forcibly deported. ned, this... vera, thank you for stressing that this is not verified,

but it adds to the devastating news that we are hearing about the brutality of the conflict, to the enormous displacement that we are witnessing. find enormous displacement that we are witnessinu. �* ., ., ., enormous displacement that we are witnessinu. �* ., ., . witnessing. and add to that the fact that there is — witnessing. and add to that the fact that there is no _ witnessing. and add to that the fact that there is no end _ witnessing. and add to that the fact that there is no end in _ witnessing. and add to that the fact that there is no end in sight - witnessing. and add to that the fact that there is no end in sight and i that there is no end in sight and that there is no end in sight and that this seems to be dragging on and vera mentioned borisjohnson, one of the reasons he is so popular in ukraine as he is one of the few are one of the leading western figures who has been pressing for the west to keep paying attention and it's hard to escape the notion that for putin, he is hoping time is on his side, basically if this drags on his side, basically if this drags on for a long time, will the west's attention span wane? will the economic problems and the fact that winter is coming mean it is harder to keep a coalition together for

months on end? will that cause western unity to flag? if that happens, one can only expect there will be many, many more people spirited out of ukraine and into parts of russia.— spirited out of ukraine and into parts of russia. exactly, as ned icked parts of russia. exactly, as ned picked up. _ parts of russia. exactly, as ned picked up, steve, _ parts of russia. exactly, as ned picked up, steve, you've - parts of russia. exactly, as ned | picked up, steve, you've got one sentence trip speak about this, but borisjohnson sentence trip speak about this, but boris johnson described sentence trip speak about this, but borisjohnson described the concerns about fatigue when it comes to this war. , . , about fatigue when it comes to this war. , ., , . war. yes, and it will be reflected not 'ust war. yes, and it will be reflected notiust in _ war. yes, and it will be reflected not just in leaders _ war. yes, and it will be reflected not just in leaders but _ war. yes, and it will be reflected notjust in leaders but in - war. yes, and it will be reflected notjust in leaders but in voters i notjust in leaders but in voters worried — notjust in leaders but in voters worried about the impact on energy prices, _ worried about the impact on energy prices, food prices and the longer it prices, food prices and the longer it goes— prices, food prices and the longer it goes on. — prices, food prices and the longer it goes on, the more that word "fatigue" — it goes on, the more that word "fatigue" could turn into something else altogether and intolerance of the consequences, to use that word again. _ the consequences, to use that word again. so— the consequences, to use that word again. so a — the consequences, to use that word again, so a long, drawn—out war of attrition _ again, so a long, drawn—out war of attrition wiii — again, so a long, drawn—out war of attrition will test not only the will of— attrition will test not only the will of leaders but voters too. and in the meantime, _ will of leaders but voters too. jim.

in the meantime, it's will of leaders but voters too. l11c in the meantime, it's the civilians, it's the people on the ground, the millions of people that have been displaced and at the start of the war i was on the border between poland and ukraine and witnessed hundreds of thousands, no millions of people who have had to flee ukraine —— now millions. we are out of time but i would like to say a big thank you, vera, it's great to have you here, steve as well, thanks for your contribution, and ned, have you here, steve as well, thanks foryour contribution, and ned, on such a historic day for the united states. thank you very much for sharing all your views. all of our panellists, a big big thank you and thank you for watching at home, join us again, same time next week, but for the time being, from me and the dateline team, it is goodbye.

hello. whilst some of you will remain dry and sunny this saturday, for others, we have already seen some passing showers, like here in penzance earlier in the day. more to come, especially in the west. that is because you are closer to an area of low pressure dominating the weather charts this weekend. as that closes in further on sunday, rain will become more abundant across western areas, and the wind strengthens further. even today, a much fresher breeze compared with the past few days, particularly in the west. a few showers dotted around in western areas. they will blossom a bit more across parts of england and scotland in the afternoon. but gaps between, things will stay dry towards the south—east, east anglia, although it will cloud over later, and in the north of scotland, but the winds will be strong, feeling cool and fresh at times. more cloudy moments in the west, 17 the high, maybe in the sunny

spots of northern scotland, 22, 22 across some parts of eastern england as well. going through this evening and overnight, some showers dotted around. close to glastonbury and headingley through the day. they will fade but then that area of low pressure, here it is, the centre pushing towards northern ireland, and on the edge of it outbreaks of rain becoming more extensive across ireland, south—west scotland, the isle of man and north—west wales later on. temperatures tomorrow morning much like this morning, 9—12. a bright start to eastern england and northern scotland. this is where the best of the dry weather will be on sunday. generally speaking more cloud elsewhere, and in the west there will still be some glimpses of sunshine, with more of a chance of rain at times. certainly in northern ireland, but certainly so in central and southern scotland and in the western fringes of england and wales. the sunshine, best towards the east. 22—23, in eastern england back, only 15—16 for some in the west, partly because you have not got as much sunshine around and there are outbreaks of rain, as you can see from the chart at four o'clock, but also

because the breeze will be stronger. these are the wind gusts, 40—50 mph around the north channel, the irish sea, and towards the south—west, and that will be pushing some very high seas in across parts of wales, cornwall and north devon. going into sunday evening, still some cloud across many western areas with outbreaks of rain, but it should be dry, i think, for the end of glastonbury. lovely sunset for the south and east, and the week ahead looks largely dry for some in the south—east of england and east anglia, and as you can see from our london forecast, just a small chance of a shower. elsewhere, though, plenty of showers around, the heaviest of the rain always in the west. see you soon.

good afternoon. borisjohnson says he will not undergo what he calls a "psychological transformation" of his character. speaking to the bbc, the prime minister insisted that policy was more important than personality. it's been a particularly bruising week for mrjohnson, after the conservatives lost two by—elections, before the resignation of his party chairman. this report from our political correspondent, tony bonsignore, contains some flash photography.