demonstrations for and against the us supreme court's decision to overturn the constitutional right to abortion have taken place in many parts of the country for a second day. hundreds of people, mostly opposed to friday's landmark ruling, gathered outside the supreme court building in washington. norwegian police say they are treating friday's attack on a series of oslo bars and nightclubs, including a popular gay one, as islamist terrorism. two people were killed. the assailant, a norwegian citizen of iranian descent, has been detained. now on bbc news, dateline london.

hello and a very warm welcome to dateline london. i'm kasia madera. it's very good of you to be with us today. this week, we're discussing the us supreme court overturning a 50—year—old ruling that legalised abortion nationwide, and look at its implication for millions of american women. we'll also be discussing the aftermath of the recent by—elections here in the uk and will be asking what the losses for the conservative party mean for the future of borisjohnson and his government, and we're also going to investigate allegations that russia is deporting captured ukrainians, including children. today for dateline london, we'rejoined by the uk's veteran political commentator steve richards, also joining us, ned temko from the christian science monitor and we welcome vera krichevskaya, the founder of moscow's tv channel rain tv that is actually banned by president putin. welcome to you all, it's really great to have you all here.

we are going to start with the us supreme court. it has voted to overturn the landmark ruling that legalised abortion almost 50 years ago. it struck down the roe v wade decision weeks after a leaked document suggested that it favoured doing so. this decision paves the way for half the country to severely restrict or completely ban terminations. ned, it makes sense to start with you. i want to pick up on something your publication has written. the draft was leaked. we are not really surprised, but as your publication, the christian science monitor, has said, this decision was unthinkablejust a few years ago. we are seeing a monumental change across the united states. it's almost impossible to overstate the significance and there have been periods of judicial activism by the supreme court in the past, most famously in the late 19505, �*60s, �*70s over civil rights

legislation but the difference was that was explicitly extending a right or a series of rights that were at the core of the american project of the constitution and its equality under the law, equal access, equal treatment. this is the first time the supreme court, for political reasons because of the change and balance of the supreme court's membership, is removing a right that has been law for 50 years and in the short term, within hours, some of these trigger laws in republican party—ruled states are already, as we speak, limiting and almost banning abortions. then in the medium to longer term, i think there will be huge social and political repercussions because of whole generations of american women.

and this is not a partisan issue if you're a young woman seeing, all of a sudden, a basic right or what you assume to be a basic right taken away by the court. i think there will be repercussions and potentially even repercussions in the form of a backlash at the polls against those who have been militating for this change for years. president biden came out quickly to talk about this and he sounded upset, he sounded angry and very emotive. he was talking about this idea of helping women reach the states, travel to states where they can potentially access, but it's not easy, as easy as that. i thought it was an impressive

response, because the anger was genuine, it sort of energised him, but i found it so interesting to watch an energised president, the supposedly mighty president of the united states, utterly impotent to do anything about what ned has suggested is a sort of revolution taking place in the united states. i know the united states constitution is this glorious kind of, apparently elegant mix of checks and balances of power, but i sometimes think it's all over the place. so, this is donald trump's supreme court in effect rendering the new president unable to do anything about this extraordinary change so that's really, just watching from a distance, the practical measures, there are states where abortion

will still be available so maybe some can go there, but as biden mentioned, there will be many poor people who will be affected by this and maybe they won't have the time, the money to get to other states and so this is going... my favourite word in politics is "consequences" — the consequences of this are many and deep. and we will reach those in a moment. ned, i'll come back to you on that. vera, when we witness changes against abortion rates against abortion rights in poland for example, we witness the tens of thousands of women going out on the streets in warsaw in different towns and cities across poland, it's fascinating to see it from that kind of perspective as to what is happening in such an influential country, in the united states. i'm speechless. today, i felt that i am

a second—class citizen because i feel so, _ because my rights — not mine because i'm not american — - but women's rights were taken. it's nonsense. speechless. . when we talk about the consequences, and i think a lot of people are making their feelings very, very vocal and many, many women are saying similar to what you have just said, vera, lots of people are not, as well. a lot of people have been campaigning for a long time for this, ned and that also has to be understood. yeah, this was not an accident. indeed, one of the frustrations for those who wanted to defend roe v wade was, to put it mildly, an element of subterfuge involved in the congressional part of the path that got us here in that when president obama had

a vacancy to fill on the supreme court in the final year of his administration the then—republican—run senate, they refused to even consider his nominee then very, very near the end of the trump administration, they fast—tracked a nominee for trump so, in effect, as steve said, trump has three nominees on this court fulfilling a long, explicit aim for leaders on the right of the republican party to get rid of roe v wade. and what the long—term consequences are is hard to tell, but i think one thing that bears watching is one of trump's vulnerabilities at the polls turned out to be suburban republican women who are traditionally rock—solid — or many of them have been — republican party supporters who were so alienated

by his behaviour, what he did. this is a very real... and you touched on this... this is a unifying cause, which touches women voters whether you are young, old, republican, democrat, and i think it may be a question of be careful what you wish for, if you are on the right of the republican party, and trying for a long time. it's not clear to me that there won't be a backlash. we talk about the powerlessness... there is something the president can do, but we were discussing earlier, he is not going to do it. packing the supreme court would be a risky thing to do because it would end up like the house of lords here, every time a new president comes in, that packing would continue and become absurd. apparently that is the only mechanism and it's not

going to be deployed. it's very interesting hearing ned talking about what happens when the evangelical right, who have been campaigning, wins. uk politics is bonkers at the moment, but british politics is pretty secular, so it's interesting when you have this victory... from my experience of politics, there are some who just love campaigning, going to meetings, getting very angry, who, when they actually win, run a mile. now, let's see what happens. maybe they are feeling euphoric at the moment. but when stories emerge, as president biden said in his response, what happens if someone is a victim of incest and so on? these stories are vivid,

if they emerge, and that is when i think the backlash could be wider than some of those who have been campaigning for this contemplated while they were enjoying the anger and passion of the campaign. we'll see that backlash. and as ned was saying, the consequences. vera, when it comes to what russia is looking at, monitoring what is happening in the us, how do you think this is going to be relayed back to the russian people, this decision that is so polarising in that country? ithink... i'm guessing now, but i think propaganda would use it - against the states obviously. at the same time, it's a tricky one because russia is drivingl to a very conservative society and we heard such voices - from church last years, -

but i would rather propaganda was used to show, "look, i this is the states, come on." divisions within that country, absolutely. thank you. boris johnson's conservative party lost two by—elections this week. is there mid—term blues or something fundamental going on? are we meant to read into this? they are by—elections after all. but they can be significant, it depends on the context in which they take place. the two by—elections, one in a seat in the southwest of england and another in the previously labour— held territory which boris johnson

won in december 2019, to lose both following a vote of confidence from your own mps earlier in the same month, where he kind of struggled on, but not with a great triumphant win, means it will create further speculation about his leadership, and a former conservative leader, michael howard, speaks very cautiously when he says he should resign, joining those who have already called on that to happen, a growing number of tory backbenchers. you've also had his co—chairman quit as well. in a way that is the most significant thing that's happened. it hardly ever happens outside elections, but when it does, when prime ministers fall, it is when the cabinet turns. there is no saying that anyone

else is going to follow yet, it's a weak and timid cabinet, dependent on boris johnson's patronage, but the chairman went in the early hours of the morning after the by—election, with a very scathing letter so that fuels the turbulence. the big question remains, what is the trigger to remove him? he won't go voluntarily, that's the only certainty in the current situation. the other certainty is it will trigger a summer of turmoil for him. when it comes to what is happening in the little details, i wonder how much interest for your publication, are you looking at these details or the bigger picture? borisjohnson, this is happening in the uk, but at the moment he is visiting rwanda and will be in germany for the g7, spain for nato, what perspective are you taking? political high drama always makes good copy, and boris, whatever his other faults,

is an entertainer as a politician, not always for the right reasons. the mirror image was that the rest of the world couldn't take its eyes off donald trump during the trump administration. he's watched as much? only for curiosity value, but obviously this is a close ally. it's a democracy, it's the mother of democracies, mother of parliaments, so this is interesting. the only thing i would add to what steve said is the other side of the equation, and that is labour. it's clear the tories are in deep trouble and i'd be curious to see whether steve agrees, my sense is we are not quite at what may be called a tony blair new labour moment and for those of you who are lucky enough to be young enough not to remember tony blair or new labour, in the 19905... we're all of that age!

by the time of the election, you had a tired conservative government, you had internal differences within the conservative party, they had been in power for 18 years. the road was up, very much the way some people feel about the current conservative government. but you also had a sense of almost inevitability, and we forget, this young, bright, articulate, well—prepared alternative government was waiting in the wings, and you had a sense of a tide turning and i don't get that sense quite yet with the current labour party and keir starmer. is it something you think we are on the cusp of, change in this country, or not? right now, i'm the wrong person to ask because i follow— ukrainian perspectives.

boris johnson is a hero i in ukraine and everything he does towards ukraine, it triggers the different i feelings and emotions, - so that's why i'm the wrong person because each time he stands nextl to mr zelensky, it - makes him even bigger. he popped up in kyiv, didn't he? we'll talk about ukraine in a moment, but going back to what ned was saying, what do you reckon about change, steve? there is a tide against this government. remember, it has been in power for 12 years. this is its fourth term and it will be looking for a fifth, but there isn't the same tidal shift towards labour that there was in the build—up to 1997.

but you wrongly called me a veteran — i'm still rocking and young! but i'm told there are many times in british politics when there isn't an obvious enthusiasm for one party or another, and it may be that britain is staggering towards a hung parliament, but if that is the case, there will be a labour government because the smaller parties would back a change of government and not give this lot another term, so it may be a more clumsy, less tangible tidal wave than 1997 under tony blair, but i feel there is a shift. they have just lost two by—elections. but last time that happened, the then government went on to win the election. it's varied. in 2010, there was a coalition, sometimes there is a minority, in the '70s, which was similar to now in some respects.

there was a minority government, labour government, which staggered on for quite a few years, so it doesn't always mean when one party is in trouble there's going to be a landslide for the other, so we may be in that sort of terrain. we watch and wait. we're all veterans here. no, we're all young! russia's attack on ukraine grinds on and a disturbing development emerging from the war is the huge displacement of people and also the allegations of deportations of hundreds of civilians and prisoners of war to remote parts of russia. vera, let's focus on what the allegations are here when it comes to people forcibly taken to russia. first of all, there are two i different groups of people, first it's the prisoners i of war, it is one group of people and this group of -

people, pows, they are placed in a prison that was previously cleared for them, or special. pre—trial detention centres . mostly in the south of russia and we do not have information of what is going on there. - i saw many leaked videos - and photos from such centres, prisons — but all footage, we have to verify — - but what i saw, i saw a group of people with masks - on their eyes walking l with guards or sitting, but i cannot verify those photos _ another group of people... the problem is, all these centres are run by fsb. i i don't know if evenl single states report,

the propaganda representative who was there and filmed - there inside the centres, - propaganda released several clips of ukrainian prisoners, they were nice, tidy, - reading books and watching tv, but it is part of the russian - metaverse, it's showbusiness, it's notjournalism, _ so it's a staged story. another group of people, it's . huge, based on official russian figures that were released - a week ago, 1,400,000 people, who were the refugee amount in russia. - those people, most of them, they had no choice to go - to their western countries, | to come back to other parts of ukraine or go to russia, they didn't have a choice. i many sources... we know right now many refugees

managed to cross the border - in estonia with the help i of independent volunteers in russia, especially- in st petersburg, they helped people to cross the border- in estonia and all these people are our trusted sources now. because they are interviewed, they tell the story, how they. crossed the russian? ukrainian border, how they spend i weeks in filtration camp, how they were interrogated, how they were searched. - and it's those early testimonies that are really crucial to gather — the fsb, the russian federal security service, but it's also the supreme council of ukraine, the commissioner of human rights, who gave those numbers that you were saying, vera, 1.3 million ukrainians

including over 200,000 children that the commissioner of human rights were saying were forcibly deported. vera, thank you for stressing that some of this is not verified, but it adds to the devastating news that we are hearing about the brutality of the conflict, to the enormous displacement that we are witnessing. and add to that the fact that there is no end in sight and that this seems to be dragging on and vera mentioned borisjohnson, one of the reasons he is so popular in ukraine as he is one of the few — or one of the leading — western figures who has been pressing for the west to keep paying attention and it's hard to escape the notion that for putin, he is hoping time is on his side,

basically if this drags on for a long time, will the west's attention span wane? will the economic problems and the fact that winter is coming mean it is harder to keep a coalition together for months on end? will that cause western unity to flag? if that happens, one can only expect there will be many, many more people spirited out of ukraine and into parts of russia. exactly, as ned picked up, steve, you've got one sentence to speak about this, but borisjohnson described the concerns about fatigue when it comes to this war. yes, and it will be reflected notjust in leaders, but in voters worried about the impact on energy prices, food prices and the longer it goes on, the more that word "fatigue"

could turn into something else altogether and intolerance of the consequences, to use that word again, so a long, drawn—out war of attrition will test not only the will of leaders, but voters too. and in the meantime, it's the civilians, it's the people on the ground, the millions of people that have been displaced and at the start of the war. i was on the border between poland and ukraine and witnessed hundreds of thousands, now millions of people who have had to flee ukraine. we are out of time, but i would like to say a big thank you, vera, it's great to have you here. steve as well, thanks for your contribution. and, ned, on such a historic day for the united states. thank you very much for sharing all your views.

all of our panellists, a big, big thank you and thank you for watching at home. join us again, same time next week, but for the time being, from me and the dateline team, it's goodbye. hello. we've had some dramatic skies across parts of the uk through saturday, especially in the west, where we saw the most frequent showers. and some of those showers brought thunder and lightning and impressive cloudscapes. and it's all been down to an area of low pressure which has been slow—moving to the west of ireland. and that continues gradually north and eastwards through sunday, bringing the most frequent showers to the north and the west of the uk, and the strongest winds here, as well. so, through sunday morning,

most frequent showers across northern ireland, northern and western scotland, north west england, parts of wales, perhaps a few into south west england. not so many getting further eastwards. in fact, the further east you are, the more likely it is to stay dry with the best of the sunshine, and hence the highest temperatures. but somewhat cooler further north and west where you've got the cloud, the showers and also the strength of the wind. so, for western coasts, particularly for irish sea coasts, we could see those gusts touching a5, maybe 50mph through sunday afternoon. so, it's a blustery afternoon. it should push the showers through fairly quickly, and whilst we can't rule out showers at glastonbury, certainly through the second half of the afternoon, it's looking dry. we should see increasing amounts of sunshine as well to end the day. so, fingers crossed for much of the day it should stay mainly dry. but as we had through sunday evening and overnight, thouse showers start to make their way a little bit further eastwards. once again, the further east you are, it should stay mainly dry with some clearer skies, and those showers just starting to ease across parts of

scotland and northern ireland as we head through the early hours of monday morning. and it's a mild night, with most places will be in double figures. so, into monday, here's our area of low pressure. it's still close by, now to the north and west of scotland. we've got a second system starting to approach from the atlantic as well. so, once again on monday, it's a day of sunny spells and showers, but it looks by this stage that the showers will start to move their way a little bit further eastwards. so, nowhere immune from a shower, but there will be some lengthy spells of sunshine in between. the winds not as strong, but it's still a fairly breezy day. and in the sunshine, we'll be seeing temperatures quite widely in the high teens, if not the low 20s celsius. it looks like east anglia and south east england will probably see the warmest conditions on monday. but it is a fairly unsettled week ahead. there'll be showers or longer spells of rain for many, but temporarily it should get a little bit warmer across east anglia and south east england. that's all from me. bye—bye.

hello and welcome to bbc news. russian forces are now said to be fully occupying the ukrainian city of severodonetsk, a key location in the war, in the east of the country. weeks of heavy shelling have reduced the city to ruins and ukraine's army has now pulled its troops out. saturday also saw an upsurge in russian missile strikes across ukraine. in his nightly address, president zelensky said the war had entered "an emotionally difficult stage" and that air defence systems held in storage in allied nations were needed more than ever.

shelley phelps has the latest.