this is bbc news, the headlines. the president of ukraine says the war with russia has entered an emotionally difficult stage — after the city of severodonetsk fell to the russian army. in his nightly address, volodymyr zelensky said he didn't how many more blows there would be before victory appeared on the horizon. donald trump has hailed the supreme court ruling that overturned the right to abortion as a victory for the constitution, the rule of law, and life itself. speaking at a republican rally, he said he'd delivered on his promise to appoint judges who would uphold conservative values. police in norway have charged a 42 —year—old man with murder, attempted murder and terrorist acts after a shooting which left two people dead and 21 others injured. shots were fired at a popular

gay venue in the capital oslo and led to authorities cancelling the city's pride parade. now on bbc news — the media show. hello and welcome to the media show. ., ., ., , ., , , show. how the regulator shapes the bbc impacts _

show. how the regulator shapes the bbc impacts everyone - show. how the regulator shapes the bbc impacts everyone who l the bbc impacts everyone who consumes its content and also interacts with it as an institution. let's understand first of all about what ofcom wants. let's hearfrom kevin backus, group director of content and media policy, and cabin, reading a review today, you sound a little underwhelmed by how the bbc explains itself. tell us why. i by how the bbc explains itself. tell us why-— tell us why. i think we feel that the — tell us why. i think we feel that the sac— tell us why. i think we feel that the bbc should - tell us why. i think we feel- that the bbc should absolutely strive all the time to explain itself to audiences and to viewers, and also to be transparent to the audiences who pay the license fee, and also to the rest of the creative industries around the uk about what it is planning, how it is approaching programming, how it is delivering its mission, its publics purposes. the is to make sure the bbc is delivering what is set out, its public purpose, delivering things like

impartial news, learning content, it should be distinctive and creative. secondly, we have a role, which is probably possibly better known as securing content standards on our for the bbc. the third one is we need to make sure anything that the bbc does is carefully considered in terms of its impact on competitors, and assure competition. so is not my point. kevin, before we talk to the other gas, let's get into specifics of people can understand what ofcom is asking of the bbc. you mention impartiality, that is one of three points of emphasis. where is the bbc getting it wrong, or is itjust not explaining how it is going about impartiality well enough? i think the bbc has got a pretty good track record of complying with the broadcasting code, on delivering impartial content, but the director—general has made it clear that the bbc needs to do

better still on that and we would agree with that. the audiences... we have done a lot lot of research and audiences to rate the bbc high for trust and accuracy, but they rated considerably lower for delivering impartial content, therefore, we feel the bbc needs to focus on ways of delivering that, and critically, explaining how it does deliver impartial content. that is what i'm trying to understand my asking the boozy to change the content it creates to make sure it is more impossible, or do you want the bbc to explain how it is making content impartial? it is bbc to explain how it is making content impartial?— content impartial? it is more the latter— content impartial? it is more the latter of— content impartial? it is more the latter of that, _ content impartial? it is more the latter of that, it - content impartial? it is more the latter of that, it is - the latter of that, it is explaining how it is making content impartial and explaining where there are contentious issues around impartiality, how it deals with those, and how it has been achieved. those, and how it has been achieved-— those, and how it has been achieved. . ., , _, achieved. leading to the second oint of achieved. leading to the second point of emphasis _ achieved. leading to the second point of emphasis from - achieved. leading to the second point of emphasis from ofcom, | point of emphasis from ofcom, complaints. people complain about the bbc for a range of reasons, but one of them could

be connected to impartiality. again, help me understand, what is the bbc getting right, what you wanted to do better? the wa the you wanted to do better? the way the is _ you wanted to do better? the way the is to _ you wanted to do better? tue: way the is to complain, you wanted to do better? he way the is to complain, they complained to the bbc first before they come to ofcom. the bbc has an opportunity to deal with it. if audiences aren't happy with that they can then come to ofcom. that is the process. we have intervened already on this over the past few years. we feel the bbc is not open and transparent enough and how it deals with the complaints, the types of complaints, the types of complaints it gets, and in particular where it is dealing with complaints around due in accuracy and impartiality, which is critical to our provision... it doesn't uphold complaints around impartiality. the third focus of ofcom, the services that the bbc provides. as i understand it, you are looking for a change to the

bbc�*s operating license with a more explicit reference to online services provided. can you just explain joblessness what the operating license isn't what you would like to be easy to commit to in terms of online services?— online services? sure, we are required _ online services? sure, we are required to — online services? sure, we are required to set _ online services? sure, we are required to set an _ online services? sure, we are required to set an operating l required to set an operating license to the bbc which is four key areas, how the bbc delivers for audiences, so the amount of news it delivers, for example, on various services — bbc one, bc2, around current affairs, a range of other programming, across tv and radio largely, so far. our view is that as audiences moved dramatically online, the operating license needs to reflect what the bbc does across all services. 50 reflect what the bbc does across all services. so you are lookin: across all services. so you are looking for— across all services. so you are looking for a _ across all services. so you are looking for a shift _ across all services. so you are looking for a shift in _ looking for a shift in commitments of the bbc and perhaps imagination of how it is measured as well. these are the three points of emphasis from ofcom today. kevin bakhurst is going to stay with us, group director of content and media policy for ofcom, but let's bring in some gas to

evaluate how ofcom is communicating with the bbc today. let's bring with owen meredith, chief executive of the news media association, representing uk, national, regional newspapers both in print and digitalform, on, regional newspapers both in printand digitalform, on, we wanted to speak to you because you approached ofcom with thoughts on this review. i wonder what you told it will stop firstly, thank you for having me on the show, a pleasure. having me on the show, a pleasure-— having me on the show, a leasure. ~ , ., , ., pleasure. we primarily have concerns — pleasure. we primarily have concerns around _ pleasure. we primarily have concerns around the - pleasure. we primarily have concerns around the bbc's l concerns around the bbc's digital— concerns around the bbc's digital approach to news and the way— digital approach to news and the way it publishes in written format — the way it publishes in written format news on the bbc website, and how — format news on the bbc website, and how that interacts with the commercial sector. clearly there _ commercial sector. clearly there has been at mary reviews, government commissioned reviews. _ government commissioned reviews, across review primarily, but others since that— primarily, but others since that have looked at the sustainability of the press and independent press, and floral press — independent press, and floral press across the country which

is vitally — press across the country which is vitally important for all of us, society and democracy at the core _ us, society and democracy at the core of it. and clearly having _ the core of it. and clearly having the bbc as a taxpayer funded — having the bbc as a taxpayer funded organisation competing in the — funded organisation competing in the digital space with commercial publishers is presenting a serious challenge to the — presenting a serious challenge to the ability of commercial publishers to monetise, commercialise and therefore sustain— commercialise and therefore sustain business models in that environment. what we presented to ofcom — environment. what we presented to ofcom as part of this review was a number of issues around that, _ was a number of issues around that, and — was a number of issues around that, and how we think the bbc could _ that, and how we think the bbc could he — that, and how we think the bbc could he a _ that, and how we think the bbc could be a better partner to help — could be a better partner to help sustain commercial new sectors, _ help sustain commercial new sectors, which i think is in all interests.— all interests. let's look at the issue _ all interests. let's look at the issue of _ all interests. let's look at the issue of services. - all interests. let's look at| the issue of services. isn't all interests. let's look at i the issue of services. isn't it the issue of services. isn't it the case that the nma was concerned about the bbc having any news product in the digital arena a few years back? so you just see a fundamental issue with the bbc operating in the space? with the bbc operating in the sace? �* �* , , . , space? the bbc is perfectly entitled to _ space? the bbc is perfectly entitled to have _ space? the bbc is perfectly entitled to have a _ space? the bbc is perfectly entitled to have a digital. entitled to have a digital presence and digital presence

in the — presence and digital presence in the news. i think where the parameters need to be discussed and negotiated between the commercial sector and bbc, it is exactly— commercial sector and bbc, it is exactly the scope and scale of that — is exactly the scope and scale of that. at the moment the bbc is the _ of that. at the moment the bbc is the largest use destination side — is the largest use destination side and _ is the largest use destination side and the uk. that is not what — side and the uk. that is not what the _ side and the uk. that is not what the bbc was set up to be. and as — what the bbc was set up to be. and as consumer habits of change _ and as consumer habits of change and as we all discover our news _ change and as we all discover our news changes, the bbc can play— our news changes, the bbc can play a — our news changes, the bbc can play a role _ our news changes, the bbc can play a role in that ecosystem. gladstone park. two we need to make sure it doesn't crowded the commercial sector. let's unpack that a little bit with roger mosey, former head of tv news at bbc and former director of bbc sport, and also alice enders, who works for enders analysis. isn't it inevitable that the bbc proms agreement has to change, it has to involve a kind of products that it provides, that isn't something to criticise the bbc four, is it? no, i think it is good that the bbc— no, i think it is good that the

bbc is — no, i think it is good that the bbc is _ or. no, i think it is good that the . bbc is _ or bad, the bbc's impact, good or bad, on something like newspapers that are local and national? here, i think i will echo roger, while i will also recognise on's point about action with the commercial sector. —— owen. we see this as not being a zero—sum game

online. we see consumers multi— homing. the view thatjust because they bbc exists, that means they will not consult local media sites, that they will not consult mail online, for example, which is another huge presence in the uk is, in our view, huge presence in the uk is, in ourview, not huge presence in the uk is, in our view, not quite correct. i agree with roger that the commercial sustainability of independent commercial news is also very important, but i don't see the bbc as being because of the there. print has always been more attractive as always been more attractive as a commercial product than digital. digitalyields a commercial product than digital. digital yields are very low. it is very difficult for local media sites to, you know, cover the costs of local media newsgathering whether online advertising, and that's

true all over the world. and the solution, in our view, the presence of the bbc at the heart of news and current affairs supply is extremely important, because it is independent of commercial concerns. and kevin, as you listen to these perspectives, where does ofcom fit into this? where do you view the limits of the bbc's digital activity should be, particularly in the context of news? , , ., ., of news? this is one of the toughest — of news? this is one of the toughest areas. _ of news? this is one of the toughest areas. it - of news? this is one of the toughest areas. it is - of news? this is one of the - toughest areas. it is something that we — toughest areas. it is something that we happen talking to our colleagues about in other areas _ colleagues about in other areas. the risk, as roger says, there _ areas. the risk, as roger says, there are — areas. the risk, as roger says, there are gaps around the uk in terms— there are gaps around the uk in terms of— there are gaps around the uk in terms of local reporting and regional— terms of local reporting and regional reporting, and frankly there — regional reporting, and frankly there is— regional reporting, and frankly there is a _ regional reporting, and frankly there is a lot of political pressure around the uk for the bbc to— pressure around the uk for the bbc to step into those gaps and so people around the uk. on the

other— so people around the uk. on the other hand, it is fair to say we are— other hand, it is fair to say we are constantly talking to the bbc about how they could have — the bbc about how they could have more effective and better partnerships with local media to, you — partnerships with local media to, you know... there are existing _ to, you know... there are existing partnerships, and how they— existing partnerships, and how they could build on things like they could build on things like the local— they could build on things like the local democracy scheme, which — the local democracy scheme, which have been rather successfully running. and those are ongoing discussions, so it is the — are ongoing discussions, so it is the hardest conundrum for the bbc_ is the hardest conundrum for the bbc but also the regulator. one of— the bbc but also the regulator. one of our other duties is about— one of our other duties is about media plurality, which is critical— about media plurality, which is critical for— about media plurality, which is critical for all audiences run uk~ — critical for all audiences run uk. �* , ., critical for all audiences run uk. , ., , uk. and the question is, whether— uk. and the question is, whether the _ uk. and the question is, whether the bbc - uk. and the question is, whether the bbc fits - uk. and the question is, | whether the bbc fits into uk. and the question is, - whether the bbc fits into that, if it is supporting that, and if it is supporting that, and if some people feel it is constraining it. on the media show, today we are looking to ofcom's suggestions for the bbc, particularly through three points of emphasis. there about bbc services and how they should be defined, perhaps how they should be limited in some circumstances. next, let's talk about complaints because ofcom is focused on this and how bbc deals with complaints. roger, let me bring you in, used to be

seen at the bbc for many years, don't lodge a complaint is just, the territory of running the bbc, and perhaps it doesn't surprise it should be on the receiving end of a few of them? yoghurt that's right. the bbc's size and scale means we do get complaints. i profess, when i was in the news i hated regulators and complaints processes and i thought we should just get on with it. but polygon, did you feel that way when you were an executive? roger? yes, to be fair a little bit _ roger? yes, to be fair a little bit switch— roger? yes, to be fair a little bit. switch size now. yes. _ bit. switch size now. yes, now i am outside of the bbc you see that accountability is really important and it is really crucial to be accountable. it is rather bad attic and body, really. the complaints process is very complicated. since i have made one complaint and eight and a half years, but i know the system. you just got stuck in this labyrinth of not being able to work out how it was that you got anywhere to acknowledge there was a genuine issue. ~ ., �* �*

acknowledge there was a genuine issue. ~ ., “ issue. won the bbc say you can lo: issue. won the bbc say you can log complaint. _ issue. won the bbc say you can log complaint, with _ issue. won the bbc say you can log complaint, with a _ issue. won the bbc say you can log complaint, with a nurse - issue. won the bbc say you can log complaint, with a nurse at l log complaint, with a nurse at a time — log complaint, with a nurse at a time frame you would get a reply, — a time frame you would get a reply, and in most circumstances people do. what _ circumstances people do. what he is getting at is there is a broader credibility issue, issues like brexit or the wake of the pandemic, and are thinking about some of the key issues that eliminate that. i don't know how the bbc thinks it comes to the pandemic, how it comes to the pandemic, how it covered brexit, all those things were it could eliminate and, on the whole buddong. t and, on the whole buddong. i want to take a full brexit detail but i have several quotes in front of me from various directors of bbc news on exactly how they feel the bbc covers brexit. it has talked about that. but on the broader issues of complaints, he was a stem from the busy today, and by though we did buy the bbc onto the programme but they have sent a statement. retreats, the bbc has the most thorough and transparent complaints process in the uk media. will with, two further improvements to the system. and

claire, i wonder whether with the bbc having commitments in place to deal with place already, is that the risk that this is placing a further burden, further workload on the bbc one perhaps it is better off working out how to take on all of its media competitors? a well, here i think i agree with kevin at ofcom. the research shows the complaints process is not well known, that many people in the uk think of complaining but don't complain because they don't know how to complain. and that is really striking, because, as kevin will tell you, ofcom has only dealt with two complaints since 2019, and they didn't concern and impartiality, media bias and impartiality, media bias and so on. so i think the issue

is like of knowledge in the complaints process. wagg kevin you are the one making the request, so if i google mail bbc complaints, i am quite easily going to— easily going to end up on a taet easily going to end up on a page that _ easily going to end up on a page that says _ easily going to end up on a page that says what - easily going to end up on a page that says what would | page that says what would you like to say to us? the problem what is presumably not that that what happens afterwards. that's entirely right. our research _ that's entirely right. our research shows audiences can google — research shows audiences can google it _ research shows audiences can google it and find their way and — google it and find their way and really easily and quickly and really easily and quickly and they approve of that, and try and they approve of that, and by the — and they approve of that, and by the way in general they approve _ by the way in general they approve of bbc first is the right— approve of bbc first is the right way to deal with complaints. however once they -et complaints. however once they get into— complaints. however once they get into that system they get lost, — get into that system they get lost, and as roger says, it is really— lost, and as roger says, it is really labyrinthine for audiences, that is what our research _ audiences, that is what our research shows. they are not quite — research shows. they are not quite sure _ research shows. they are not quite sure whether you're in the process, they don't like the process, they don't like the tone _ the process, they don't like the tone of language they get a response from the bbc. when we were _ response from the bbc. when we were discussing this with the bbc, _ were discussing this with the bbc, the _ were discussing this with the bbc, the bbc said well, you know— bbc, the bbc said well, you know it _ bbc, the bbc said well, you know it is _ bbc, the bbc said well, you know it is a measure of our success— know it is a measure of our success that people don't come through— success that people don't come through to ofcom that much at the end — through to ofcom that much at the end. our research says that people — the end. our research says that people don't come up through

ofcom — people don't come up through ofcom because they give up the ghost _ ofcom because they give up the ghost going through the bbc complaints process and don't really— complaints process and don't really understand where they are or — really understand where they are or how to advance it. the bbc has _ are or how to advance it. the bbc has defended _ are or how to advance it. tt2 bbc has defended its complaints process but also says it is willing to work further with you to make improvements... t’m you to make improvements... i'm not sure it — you to make improvements... i'm not sure it is _ you to make improvements... i'm not sure it is always, the bbc is more — not sure it is always, the bbc is more transparent- not sure it is always, the bbc. is more transparent than other broadcasters _ is more transparent than other broadcasters for— is more transparent than other broadcasters for a _ is more transparent than other broadcasters for a good - is more transparent than otherl broadcasters for a good reason, they— broadcasters for a good reason, they are — broadcasters for a good reason, they are the _ broadcasters for a good reason, they are the only— broadcasters for a good reason, they are the only ones - they are the only ones receiving _ they are the only ones receiving £5— they are the only ones receiving £5 billion - they are the only ones receiving £5 billion ofi they are the only ones - receiving £5 billion of public money— receiving £5 billion of public money and _ receiving £5 billion of public money and they— receiving £5 billion of public money and they should - receiving £5 billion of public money and they should be. | receiving £5 billion of publicl money and they should be. i don't — money and they should be. i don't think— money and they should be. i don't think it _ money and they should be. i don't think it is _ money and they should be. i don't think it is always - money and they should be. i don't think it is always really helpful— don't think it is always really helpful that _ don't think it is always really helpful that the _ don't think it is always really helpful that the knee - don't think it is always really helpful that the knee jerk. don't think it is always really helpful that the knee jerk isi helpful that the knee jerk is we're — helpful that the knee jerk is we're already— helpful that the knee jerk is we're already doing - helpful that the knee jerk is we're already doing a - helpful that the knee jerk is l we're already doing a brilliant job _ we're already doing a brilliant job i— we're already doing a brilliant job ithink— we're already doing a brilliant job i think it _ we're already doing a brilliant job. i think it is _ we're already doing a brilliant job. i think it is better- we're already doing a brilliant job. i think it is better to - job. i think it is better to look— job. i think it is better to look at _ job. i think it is better to look at the _ job. i think it is better to| look at the independence job. i think it is better to - look at the independence —— the data _ look at the independence —— the data which _ look at the independence —— the data. which is _ look at the independence —— the data. which is what _ look at the independence —— the data. which is what we - look at the independence —— the data. which is what we do. - look at the independence —— the data. which is what we do. the? data. which is what we do. they have said we — data. which is what we do. they have said we will _ data. which is what we do. they have said we will work _ data. which is what we do. they have said we will work with - have said we will work with ofcom on there so i imagine you have further conversations with the bbc. so there are these three areas we are looking at, services, complaints. next let's consider impartiality. we have had from ofcom's chief executive saying it, the bbc, clearly needs to address widespread perceptions about its impartiality. owen meredith from the news media association, do you agree with

that, that there is a perception issue for the bbc here? , , ., ., , , here? yes, it is not really my lace here? yes, it is not really my place to _ here? yes, it is not really my place to hugely _ here? yes, it is not really my place to hugely come - here? yes, it is not really my place to hugely come in - here? yes, it is not really my place to hugely come in on i place to hugely come in on this, but there is definitely a perception problem with the bbc. t perception problem with the bbc. ., , , , bbc. i wonder if it is because man of bbc. i wonder if it is because many of your— bbc. i wonder if it is because many of your members - bbc. i wonder if it is because many of your members are i bbc. i wonder if it is because - many of your members are partly responsible for that perception, because many newspapers have plenty to say about what the bbc is and isn't doing. tiff about what the bbc is and isn't doinu. . ., , about what the bbc is and isn't doint _ . ., , ., doing. of course, and newspapers _ doing. of course, and newspapers are - doing. of course, and newspapers are free | doing. of course, and l newspapers are free to doing. of course, and - newspapers are free to take their own editorial line, i represent the publishing business and industry that publish them, not the editorial line, which individual editors and papers are free to do. but do ou and papers are free to do. but do you think — and papers are free to do. but do you think more broadly, though, that the way the bbc positions itself within uk media, which is relevant to your industry, is impacted negatively by perceptions it is not as impartial as it ought to be? , ~ , not as impartial as it ought to be? , ~' , , be? yes, i think this partly noes be? yes, i think this partly goes back _ be? yes, i think this partly goes back to _ be? yes, i think this partly goes back to our _ be? yes, i think this partly goes back to our wider - goes back to our wider argument, which is if the bbc focuses on the core service of delivering new its are not overstretching its ambitions into analysis, comment, opinion, which i think it often strays into...

opinion, which i think it often strays into. . ._ opinion, which i think it often strays into. . .— opinion, which i think it often strays into. . . strays into... owen, i'm going to interrupt- — strays into... owen, i'm going to interrupt. i— strays into... owen, i'm going to interrupt. i mean, - strays into... owen, i'm going to interrupt. i mean, my- strays into... owen, i'm going to interrupt. i mean, myjob. to interrupt. i mean, myjob title is analysis editor for bbc news, we do analysis as well as reporting, that is part ofjournalism, notjust saying that something has happened but explaining why it has consequence. tiff explaining why it has consequence. explaining why it has conseuuence. , , consequence. of course, buti thinkthat— consequence. of course, buti think that is — consequence. of course, buti think that is where _ consequence. of course, buti think that is where the - think that is where the impartiality issues often arise, so the bbc needs to be considered address this. clearly there is a public concern and i think it goes back to an earlier argument as i was saying, that if the bbc worked better in partnership with the commercial sector, just to pick up on roger's comment, i don't see the bbc as the full problem by any means in terms of the long—term sustainability of the wider sector, but the bbc needs to be a better partner to industry. roger mosey, if i could bring you in here, iam roger mosey, if i could bring you in here, i am very interested in this idea that the bbc has a perception problem, that is off, saying that. if there is one, whose responsibility is that if the bbc is being impartial, does it still need to respond to the fact that it has a perception problem, whether that is fair

or not? , ., �* ~' or not? yes. i don't think there is _ or not? yes. i don't think there is a _ or not? yes. i don't think there is a crisis _ or not? yes. i don't think there is a crisis but - or not? yes. i don't think there is a crisis but there j or not? yes. i don't think. there is a crisis but there is certainly— there is a crisis but there is certainly a _ there is a crisis but there is certainly a set of challenges. should — certainly a set of challenges. should just say i have literallyjust should just say i have literally just written a should just say i have literallyjust written a book about _ literallyjust written a book about this which is out this week— about this which is out this week about the whole question about— week about the whole question about impartiality and how it is and — about impartiality and how it is and how we tackle it in a modem, _ is and how we tackle it in a modern, digitalage is one modern, digital age is one that of course — modern, digital age is one that of course tim davie has said there — of course tim davie has said there are _ of course tim davie has said there are problems, so the bbc does _ there are problems, so the bbc does believe there is a problem, and i think that when you referred back to brexit and the bbc— you referred back to brexit and the bbc making statement saying it is all— the bbc making statement saying it is alljolly good, i would like — it is alljolly good, i would like some accountability on that, — like some accountability on that, some examination of it at all we — that, some examination of it at all we see _ that, some examination of it at all we see on the bbc annual report— all we see on the bbc annual report is— all we see on the bbc annual report is the brexit cup it was rather— report is the brexit cup it was rather marvellous and so is the 2019— rather marvellous and so is the 2019 general election coverage, my question is, was it? if you believe — my question is, was it? if you believe public service really matters, as i do, you have to make — matters, as i do, you have to make it — matters, as i do, you have to make it better, and the bbc are supposed — make it better, and the bbc are supposed to be notjust make it better, and the bbc are supposed to be not just where the market is, it is supposed to be — the market is, it is supposed to be better than the market, and more _ to be better than the market, and more analysis.— to be better than the market, and more analysis. well, what does a better _ and more analysis. well, what does a better look— and more analysis. well, what does a better look like, - and more analysis. well, what| does a better look like, roger? let's get into the detail here. what does bbcjournalism and

content need to do to demonstrate its impartiality that it demonstrate its impartiality thatitis demonstrate its impartiality that it is not only at the moment? tt that it is not only at the moment?— that it is not only at the moment? ., , ., ., , moment? it as a hold multiple set of reasons. _ moment? it as a hold multiple set of reasons. one _ moment? it as a hold multiple set of reasons. one at - moment? it as a hold multiple set of reasons. one at times l moment? it as a hold multiple| set of reasons. one at times as there _ set of reasons. one at times as there is— set of reasons. one at times as there is too— set of reasons. one at times as there is too much robotic balance _ there is too much robotic balance was top someone says this, _ balance was top someone says this, some insist that, nothing what— this, some insist that, nothing what people want is the kind of analysis— what people want is the kind of analysis that you are doing, that— analysis that you are doing, that tries _ analysis that you are doing, that tries to pick that apart and — that tries to pick that apart and say— that tries to pick that apart and say where is the truth. i think— and say where is the truth. i think it _ and say where is the truth. i think it is _ and say where is the truth. i think it is also the case that the bbc_ think it is also the case that the bbc has had liberal tendencies over the years, which _ tendencies over the years, which makes some audiences sceptical— which makes some audiences sceptical about it, but equally we are — sceptical about it, but equally we are in— sceptical about it, but equally we are in a world now where fiercer— we are in a world now where fiercer partisans are alienated by anything that is public service _ by anything that is public service broadcasting. so the question— service broadcasting. so the question is how does public service _ question is how does public service rebuild itself? i service rebuild itself? should service rebuild itself? i should also point out service rebuild itself? t should also point out that the idea that the bbc leans to the left is one that is often mentioned, and yet lots of colleagues have left the bbc to go to work for political parties on the right—hand side of the political spectrum as well as the left. but you mention politics, roger, let's bring that end, and alex anders from enders you can help,

nadine dorries the culture secretary has retweeted what ofcom has had to say early on and says being open, impartial is vital to the bbc maintaining trust. the bbc must significantly improve its handling of complaints. ofcom's report will feed into the bbc mid—term review. as our national broadcaster the bbc must deliver for its audiences. alice anders, is it inevitable whether ofcom intended it or not that this review becomes instantly political? tt is instantly political? it is inevitable _ instantly political? it is inevitable but - instantly political? it is inevitable but i - instantly political? it is inevitable but i would i instantly political? it is i inevitable but i would like instantly political? it is inevitable but i would like to add to — inevitable but i would like to add to the _ inevitable but i would like to add to the comments - inevitable but i would like to add to the comments that i inevitable but i would like to| add to the comments that we inevitable but i would like to - add to the comments that we are living _ add to the comments that we are living in— add to the comments that we are living in a — add to the comments that we are living in a very— add to the comments that we are living in a very opinionated - living in a very opinionated and — living in a very opinionated and polarised _ living in a very opinionated and polarised environment living in a very opinionated - and polarised environment that certainly— and polarised environment that certainly is _ and polarised environment that certainly is a _ and polarised environment that certainly is a finding _ and polarised environment that certainly is a finding that - certainly is a finding that 0fcom _ certainly is a finding that ofcom might _ certainly is a finding that ofcom might have - certainly is a finding that - ofcom might have highlighted more — ofcom might have highlighted more today _ ofcom might have highlighted more today. in _ ofcom might have highlighted more today. in that _ ofcom might have highlighted more today. in that context, i ofcom might have highlightedj more today. in that context, if a person— more today. in that context, if a person doesn't _ more today. in that context, if a person doesn't see - more today. in that context, if a person doesn't see their- a person doesn't see their opinion— a person doesn't see their opinion perfected, - a person doesn't see their opinion perfected, the - a person doesn't see their. opinion perfected, the view that— opinion perfected, the view that as _ opinion perfected, the view that as an— opinion perfected, the view that as an issue _ opinion perfected, the view that as an issue of - that as an issue of impartiality. - that as an issue ofl impartiality. sitting that as an issue of - impartiality. sitting on the fence. _ impartiality. sitting on the fence. in _ impartiality. sitting on the fence. in a _ impartiality. sitting on the fence, in a funny- impartiality. sitting on the fence, in a funny way, -

impartiality. sitting on the fence, in a funny way, is. fence, in a funny way, is taking _ fence, in a funny way, is taking a— fence, in a funny way, is taking a position. - fence, in a funny way, is taking a position. that l fence, in a funny way, is| taking a position. that is fence, in a funny way, is- taking a position. that is what many— taking a position. that is what many people _ taking a position. that is what many people believe. - taking a position. that is what many people believe. and - taking a position. that is whatj many people believe. and you see this — many people believe. and you see this in _ many people believe. and you see this in commercial- many people believe. and you see this in commercial radio, i see this in commercial radio, which — see this in commercial radio, which is _ see this in commercial radio, which is far— see this in commercial radio, which is far more _ see this in commercial radio, j which is far more opinionated when — which is far more opinionated when they— which is far more opinionated when they are _ which is far more opinionated when they are dealing - which is far more opinionated when they are dealing with i which is far more opinionated i when they are dealing with news and current _ when they are dealing with news and current affairs. _ when they are dealing with news and current affairs. i— when they are dealing with news and current affairs. i know, - and current affairs. i know, because _ and current affairs. i know, because i_ and current affairs. i know, because i am _ and current affairs. i know, because i am supposed - and current affairs. i know, because i am supposed to| and current affairs. i know, l because i am supposed to be and current affairs. i know, - because i am supposed to be the person— because i am supposed to be the person that — because i am supposed to be the person that they— because i am supposed to be the person that they get _ because i am supposed to be the person that they get to _ because i am supposed to be the person that they get to beat - because i am supposed to be the person that they get to beat up l person that they get to beat up on those — person that they get to beat up on those media, _ person that they get to beat up on those media, and _ person that they get to beat up on those media, and i- person that they get to beat up on those media, and ijust - on those media, and ijust think— on those media, and ijust think that's _ on those media, and ijust think that'sjust_ on those media, and ijust think that's just where - on those media, and ijust think that's just where we| on those media, and ijust i think that's just where we are as a _ think that's just where we are as a society— think that's just where we are as a society not _ think that's just where we are as a society not just - think that's just where we are as a society not just of- think that's just where we are as a society not just of the . as a society not just of the uk but more _ as a society not just of the uk but more generally. - as a society not just of the uk but more generally. in- as a society notjust of the uk but more generally.— but more generally. in which case let's — but more generally. in which case let's ask _ but more generally. in which case let's ask kevin - but more generally. in which case let's ask kevin back - but more generally. in which| case let's ask kevin backjust about that, given that lots of broadcasters, lbc, gb news and others have opinions that express opinions but across that outfit you deemed them to be balanced, why can't the bbc go that way too? t be balanced, why can't the bbc go that way too?— go that way too? i think the bbc has a — go that way too? i think the bbc has a unique _ go that way too? i think the bbc has a unique position i go that way too? i think the | bbc has a unique position in british life, a unique funding system are a unique accountability, and actually it uniquely has its own set of editorial guidelines as well, which go beyond the ofcom guidelines, and rightly so. and the bbc in many ways it sets the bbc in many ways it sets

the standard, or should set the standards for things like accuracy and impartiality. to come back to your point about the politics and our mid charter review, part of the function of that is to try to help inform the government's mid charter review of the bbc. what i would say is ofcom is an independent regulator, we are trying to bring the evidence to the discussion. we have looked at the evidence and we are trying to present it... but that you _ trying to present it... but that you have _ trying to present it... but that you have interactions with the government while you were having this review put together?— having this review put totether? ., ., together? not about the specifics. _ together? not about the specifics, about - together? not about the specifics, about the - together? not about the - specifics, about the mechanism but not about what we put into the review, which is wholly our own work and no discussion has gone on about it. the outcome, we safer stop— we safer stop kevin, we're out of time. thank— we safer stop kevin, we're out of time. thank you _ we safer stop kevin, we're out of time. thank you to - we safer stop kevin, we're out of time. thank you to all - we safer stop kevin, we're out of time. thank you to all of. of time. thank you to all of our guests, kevin backus from ofcom, owen from the news media organisation, roger mosley from selwyn college, cambridge university and alice anders, director of research at enders

analysis. we will be back at the usual time but for the moment thanks very much for watching. see you soon. goodbye. hello. we've had some dramatic skies across parts of the uk through saturday, especially in the west, where we saw the most frequent showers. and some of those showers brought thunder and lightning and impressive cloudscapes and it's all been down to an area of low pressure which has been slow moving to the west of ireland, and that continues gradually north and eastwards through sunday, bringing the most frequent showers to the north and the west of the uk and the strongest winds here as well. so, through sunday morning, most frequent showers across northern ireland, northern and western scotland, north west england, parts of wales, perhaps a few into south west england, not so many getting further eastwards — in fact, the further east you are, the more likely it is to stay dry with the best of the sunshine and hence, the highest temperatures. but somewhat cooler further north and west, where you've

got the cloud, the showers and also the strength of the wind. so, for western coasts, particularly for irish sea coasts, we could see those gusts touching a5, maybe 50 mph through sunday afternoon, so it's a blustery afternoon but it should push the showers through fairly quickly. and whilst we can't rule out showers at glastonbury, certainly through the second half of the afternoon, it's looking dry. we should see increasing amounts of sunshine as well to end the day, so fingers crossed for much of the day it should stay mainly dry. but as we head through sunday evening and overnight, those showers start to make their way a little bit further eastwards. once again, the further east you are, it should stay mainly dry with some clearer skies and those showers just starting to ease across parts of scotland and northern ireland as we head through the early hours of monday morning. and it's a mild night with most places being in double figures. so, into monday, here's our area of low pressure. it's still close by, now to the north and the west of scotland, but we've got a second system starting to approach from the atlantic

as well so, once again on monday, it's a day of sunny spells and showers but it looks, by this stage, that the showers will start to move their way a little bit further eastwards, so nowhere immune from a shower but there will be some lengthy spells of sunshine in between. the winds not as strong but it's still a fairly breezy day and in the sunshine, we'll be seeing temperatures quite widely in the high teens, if not the low 20s celsius. it looks like east anglia and south east england will probably see the warmest conditions on monday. but it is a fairly unsettled week ahead. there'll be showers or longer spells of rain for many but temporarily, it should get a little bit warmer across east anglia and south east england. that's all from me. there'll be showers or longer spells of rain for many but temporarily, it should get a little bit warmer across east anglia and south east england. that's all from me. bye— bye.