hello and welcome to the programme, which brings together leading uk commentators with a foreign correspondence who wrote and broadcast to audiences back home from _ broadcast to audiences back home from the _ broadcast to audiences back home from the dateline london. this broadcast to audiences back home from the dateline london.- from the dateline london. this is our 1937 moment, _ from the dateline london. this is our 1937 moment, at _ from the dateline london. this is our 1937 moment, at least - from the dateline london. this is i our 1937 moment, at least according to general sir patrick saunders, newly appointed head of the british

army. his speech this week was a shot across the bow is to politicians attending to national and international talking events, the negus summit in madrid and before that the g7 in the bavarian alps. both promised to support ukraine for as long as it takes. general saunders was arguing for deterrence, the not very surprising deterrent for russia as being, do you want prime ministers to remember you want prime ministers to remember you as being like neville chamberlain, who appeased hitler? are saying we are keen to protect taiwan against beijing. this in a week when china's president visited hong kong 25 years after british control came to an end. he was celebrating its rebirth. the uk as joint was celebrating its rebirth. the uk asjoint guarantor of was celebrating its rebirth. the uk as joint guarantor of hong kong's freedoms. that went well, didn't it? in the studio with me, suzanne lynch, an irishjournalist. polly

toynbee, who has been writing a weekly column for the guardian since 1988, which means she has seen off six prime ministers so far. and isabel hilton spelt many years as a correspondent before founding china dialogue, an independent organisation on that country has to face. you are both in the bavarian alps for the g7. irate face. you are both in the bavarian alps for the g7.— alps for the g7. we run into each other, alps for the g7. we run into each other. yes. _ alps for the g7. we run into each other, yes, there _ alps for the g7. we run into each other, yes, there were _ alps for the g7. we run into each other, yes, there were hundreds| alps for the g7. we run into each l other, yes, there were hundreds of journalists there gathered for the event, yes. journalists there gathered for the event. yes-_ event, yes. let's start with that, suzanne- — event, yes. let's start with that, suzanne. and _ event, yes. let's start with that, suzanne. and with _ event, yes. let's start with that, suzanne. and with what - event, yes. let's start with that, suzanne. and with what the - event, yes. let's start with that, - suzanne. and with what the message coming out of that was. yes. in terms of _ coming out of that was. yes. in terms of the — coming out of that was. yes in terms of the atmosphere at coming out of that was. i9; in terms of the atmosphere at the g7 because it did feel, and even though it wasn't supposed to be, in the end all about ukraine? it it wasn't supposed to be, in the end all about ukraine?— all about ukraine? it was, let's cast our mind _ all about ukraine? it was, let's cast our mind back— all about ukraine? it was, let's cast our mind back a _ all about ukraine? it was, let's cast our mind back a year- all about ukraine? it was, let's cast our mind back a year ago | all about ukraine? it was, let's. cast our mind back a year ago to all about ukraine? it was, let's - cast our mind back a year ago to the last g7 in cornwall, who would have thought that a year on they would be faced with a war on the european continent? it completely changed the dynamic this time around, there was a very obvious focal point and a

pressing team of these few days and i think issues that have emerged from the ukraine war as well the actual situation on the ground dominated everything from sanctions toissues dominated everything from sanctions to issues of food security, to climb it as well and how that links into gas and oil position, sol it as well and how that links into gas and oil position, so i think the leaders were under pressure to come out with results, but i have to say i don't think there was that much progress made. take food security, for example, there was a lot of talk going into the summer that they would be some way of trying to deal with this issue of the tonnes of grain that are stuck in ukraine and can't get out. we really didn't see any progress on that. also with sanctions there was a plan to put a price cap on oil. yes, they agreed that, but the detail is very much still have to be worked out, so in terms of actual meat on the bones, i think it was quite disappointing. in some way see general saunders speech was almost the most dramatic and it wasn't by any leader of any country. it sort of implied a lot of the texts and what we were told, but

this was a kind of very, very direct or you could say, soldiers are bound to say, polly toynbee, that solders want more weapons always and there is a with a risk of war, but the tone of this felt quite different? yes, a moment of reality, for this country. — yes, a moment of reality, for this country, which lives in a fantasy world _ country, which lives in a fantasy world in— country, which lives in a fantasy world in many respects, in how it sees _ world in many respects, in how it sees itself— world in many respects, in how it sees itself across the world, but right _ sees itself across the world, but right across europe, but actually howi _ right across europe, but actually how. are — right across europe, but actually how, are we going to fight in ukraine _ how, are we going to fight in ukraine to the last ukrainian? well, as long _ ukraine to the last ukrainian? well, as long as— ukraine to the last ukrainian? well, as long as president zelensky wants to or as— as long as president zelensky wants to or as long as people want to, but i do think_ to or as long as people want to, but i do think europe has got to terms with what— i do think europe has got to terms with what it is going to cost. not spending — with what it is going to cost. not spending any more money, we don't have any— spending any more money, we don't have any more ammunition left to send _ have any more ammunition left to send to— have any more ammunition left to send to them. we need these heavy weapons _ send to them. we need these heavy weapons. they are not providing them _ weapons. they are not providing them. they keep promising too, but it doesn't— them. they keep promising too, but it doesn't actually turn up and i don't _ it doesn't actually turn up and i don't thihk_ it doesn't actually turn up and i don't think anybody has converted, certainly— don't think anybody has converted, certainly not in this country and probably— certainly not in this country and probably not across europe, where do you realise _ probably not across europe, where do you realise what going back to cold

war really— you realise what going back to cold war really means in terms of defence spending? _ war really means in terms of defence spending? it is vast, it either nteans— spending? it is vast, it either means vast tax raises or huge cuts in terms _ means vast tax raises or huge cuts in terms of— means vast tax raises or huge cuts in terms of things people really care about, like educational health. boris _ care about, like educational health. borisjohnson is not a man with unpleasant realities and he is not facing _ unpleasant realities and he is not facing the — unpleasant realities and he is not facing the country with it and nor is he _ facing the country with it and nor is he facing — facing the country with it and nor is he facing up to do it himself. i want is he facing up to do it himself. want to is he facing up to do it himself. i want to talk about the detail of this in the moment, but on this question of spending in the military, we had a defence review barely a year ago that envisaged a smaller and smaller standing army of cut about another 10,000, just over 70,000 from about 83,000, but actually now we are spending more than a gdp on this until 2030. in a sense, we had the aspiration, but can we actually generate the troops and commitment to do good on the pledges we are making? lmelt. and commitment to do good on the pledges we are making?— and commitment to do good on the

pledges we are making? well, i think as sally polly — pledges we are making? well, i think as sally polly said, _ pledges we are making? well, i think as sally polly said, ever— pledges we are making? well, i think as sally polly said, ever since - pledges we are making? well, i think as sally polly said, ever since 1989 i as sally polly said, ever since 1989 we have _ as sally polly said, ever since 1989 we have tteen— as sally polly said, ever since 1989 we have been cutting _ as sally polly said, ever since 1989 we have been cutting back- as sally polly said, ever since 1989 we have been cutting back on - we have been cutting back on defence. _ we have been cutting back on defence, actually _ we have been cutting back on defence, actually quite - we have been cutting back on. defence, actually quite rightly, we have been cutting back on . defence, actually quite rightly, if we don't — defence, actually quite rightly, if we don't need _ defence, actually quite rightly, if we don't need it— defence, actually quite rightly, if we don't need it don't— defence, actually quite rightly, if we don't need it don't spend - defence, actually quite rightly, if we don't need it don't spend the| we don't need it don't spend the money, — we don't need it don't spend the money, but _ we don't need it don't spend the money, but according _ we don't need it don't spend the money, but according at - we don't need it don't spend the money, but according at least i we don't need it don't spend thej money, but according at least to we don't need it don't spend the - money, but according at least to the military, _ money, but according at least to the military, we — money, but according at least to the military, we have _ money, but according at least to the military, we have gone _ money, but according at least to the military, we have gone so _ money, but according at least to the military, we have gone so far- money, but according at least to the military, we have gone so far that i military, we have gone so far that actually _ military, we have gone so far that actually building _ military, we have gone so far that actually building back _ military, we have gone so far that actually building back up - military, we have gone so far that actually building back up but - military, we have gone so far that actually building back up but only| actually building back up but only takes _ actually building back up but only takes money, _ actually building back up but only takes money, it— actually building back up but only takes money, it takes _ actually building back up but only takes money, it takes time. - actually building back up but only takes money, it takes time. you i takes money, it takes time. you can't _ takes money, it takes time. you can'tiust— takes money, it takes time. you can'tjust conjure _ takes money, it takes time. you can'tjust conjure up _ takes money, it takes time. you can'tjust conjure up troops, - takes money, it takes time. you can'tjust conjure up troops, youj can'tjust conjure up troops, you can't _ can'tjust conjure up troops, you can'tjust— can'tjust conjure up troops, you can't just hand _ can'tjust conjure up troops, you can't just hand wrapped - can'tjust hand wrapped technologies. _ can'tjust hand wrapped technologies. we - can'tjust hand wrapped technologies.- can'tjust hand wrapped technolouies. ~ :, �* ., technologies. we don't have conscription... _ technologies. we don't have conscription... we _ technologies. we don't have conscription... we don't - technologies. we don't havel conscription... we don't have conscription, _ conscription... we don't have conscription, naturally - conscription... we don't have conscription, naturally we - conscription... we don't have j conscription, naturally we are conscription... we don't have - conscription, naturally we are very slow in _ conscription, naturally we are very slow in delivering _ conscription, naturally we are very slow in delivering new _ conscription, naturally we are very slow in delivering new kit, - conscription, naturally we are very slow in delivering new kit, we - conscription, naturally we are very slow in delivering new kit, we are i slow in delivering new kit, we are not very— slow in delivering new kit, we are not very good _ slow in delivering new kit, we are not very good at _ slow in delivering new kit, we are not very good at that, _ slow in delivering new kit, we are not very good at that, so - slow in delivering new kit, we are not very good at that, so it - slow in delivering new kit, we are not very good at that, so it is - not very good at that, so it is going — not very good at that, so it is going to _ not very good at that, so it is going to be _ not very good at that, so it is going to be a _ not very good at that, so it is going to be a fairly— not very good at that, so it is going to be a fairly hard - not very good at that, so it is i going to be a fairly hard reality not very good at that, so it is - going to be a fairly hard reality if we're _ going to be a fairly hard reality if we're going _ going to be a fairly hard reality if we're going to _ going to be a fairly hard reality if we're going to build _ going to be a fairly hard reality if we're going to build back- going to be a fairly hard reality if we're going to build back up. - going to be a fairly hard reality if we're going to build back up. 0n| we're going to build back up. on this we're going to build back up. this issue of defence spending, obviously the us has set for such a long time about nato and the other allies that they were not paying their way enough, but it can be very difficult because some countries, their prime minister, druggie, has got a difficult political situation because the main —— like their main prime minister there has a difficult

position... so particular countries, you see that in germany, chancellor schultz has come in for a lot of criticism, but germany has done a u—turn when it comes to defence spending. a lot of people may have thought it was a bit late, but they're trying to keep a coalition together, so these decisions and this policy—making can be very complex. i this policy-making can be very comlex. ., this policy-making can be very comlex. ~' ., , :, , ., complex. i think there has to be a measure of _ complex. i think there has to be a measure of respect _ complex. i think there has to be a measure of respect for _ complex. i think there has to be a measure of respect for germany | measure of respect for germany because — measure of respect for germany because they _ measure of respect for germany because they have _ measure of respect for germany because they have had - measure of respect for germany because they have had to - measure of respect for germany because they have had to do - measure of respect for germanyj because they have had to do the tiiggest — because they have had to do the biggest somersault, _ because they have had to do the . biggest somersault, intellectually, emotionally, — biggest somersault, intellectually, emotionally, politically, _ biggest somersault, intellectually, emotionally, politically, of- biggest somersault, intellectually, emotionally, politically, ofany- emotionally, politically, ofany country. — emotionally, politically, ofany country, they— emotionally, politically, ofany country, they have _ emotionally, politically, ofany country, they have been - emotionally, politically, ofany country, they have been the l emotionally, politically, ofany. country, they have been the ones emotionally, politically, ofany- country, they have been the ones who don't do _ country, they have been the ones who don't do defence _ country, they have been the ones who don't do defence and _ country, they have been the ones who don't do defence and now— country, they have been the ones who don't do defence and now they - country, they have been the ones who don't do defence and now they have . don't do defence and now they have to face _ don't do defence and now they have to face up— don't do defence and now they have to face up to — don't do defence and now they have to face up to the _ don't do defence and now they have to face up to the fact _ don't do defence and now they have to face up to the fact that _ don't do defence and now they have to face up to the fact that the - to face up to the fact that the russian — to face up to the fact that the russian market— to face up to the fact that the russian market is a _ to face up to the fact that the russian market is a real- to face up to the fact that the . russian market is a real threat, to face up to the fact that the - russian market is a real threat, it is a real— russian market is a real threat, it is a real enemy— russian market is a real threat, it is a real enemy is— russian market is a real threat, it is a real enemy is naturally - russian market is a real threat, it. is a real enemy is naturally germany has to— is a real enemy is naturally germany has to step — is a real enemy is naturally germany has to step up — is a real enemy is naturally germany has to step up as— is a real enemy is naturally germany has to step up as well— is a real enemy is naturally germany has to step up as well and _ is a real enemy is naturally germany has to step up as well and i- is a real enemy is naturally germany has to step up as well and i think- has to step up as well and i think they have — has to step up as well and i think they have done _ has to step up as well and i think they have done remarkably- has to step up as well and i think they have done remarkably well. has to step up as well and i think. they have done remarkably well at it. they have done remarkably well at it well— they have done remarkably well at it we'll see — they have done remarkably well at it. we'll see how— they have done remarkably well at it. we'll see how long _ they have done remarkably well at it. we'll see how long it— they have done remarkably well at it. we'll see how long it lasts. - they have done remarkably well at it. we'll see how long it lasts. the question— it. we'll see how long it lasts. the question is, — it. we'll see how long it lasts. the question is, whose _ it. we'll see how long it lasts. the question is, whose nerve - it. we'll see how long it lasts. the question is, whose nerve lasts - question is, whose nerve lasts longer? — question is, whose nerve lasts longer? president _ question is, whose nerve lasts longer? president putin's- question is, whose nerve lasts longer? president putin's or. question is, whose nerve lasts i longer? president putin's or the rest of— longer? president putin's or the rest of the — longer? president putin's or the rest of the west? _ longer? president putin's or the rest of the west? [— longer? president putin's or the rest of the west?— longer? president putin's or the rest of the west? i was very struck, talkin: to rest of the west? i was very struck, talking to a — rest of the west? i was very struck, talking to a middle-aged _ rest of the west? i was very struck, talking to a middle-aged german . talking to a middle—aged german woman broadcastjournalist in the week who was saying she knows of no

comparable time when people in germany feared about turning a switch on and on the wall and they're not being any power there. you worry about rationing and we now start to think actually we are headed for a really uncertain future. they seem to have realised this. i wonder if we have yet realised it in the uk? ida. this. i wonder if we have yet realised it in the uk? no. we haven't realised _ realised it in the uk? no. we haven't realised it _ realised it in the uk? no. we haven't realised it and - realised it in the uk? no. we haven't realised it and i - realised it in the uk? no. we. haven't realised it and i mean, realised it in the uk? no. we - haven't realised it and i mean, to be fair, _ haven't realised it and i mean, to be fair, germany's _ haven't realised it and i mean, to be fair, germany's dependence . haven't realised it and i mean, toi be fair, germany's dependence on russian _ be fair, germany's dependence on russian energy— be fair, germany's dependence on russian energy is _ be fair, germany's dependence on russian energy is greater - be fair, germany's dependence on russian energy is greater than - be fair, germany's dependence oni russian energy is greater than ours is, but _ russian energy is greater than ours is, but we — russian energy is greater than ours is, but we are— russian energy is greater than ours is, but we are facing _ russian energy is greater than ours is, but we are facing a _ russian energy is greater than ours is, but we are facing a perfect- is, but we are facing a perfect storm — is, but we are facing a perfect storm of— is, but we are facing a perfect storm of brexit _ is, but we are facing a perfecti storm of brexit consequences, inflation, — storm of brexit consequences, inflation, cost _ storm of brexit consequences, inflation, cost of _ storm of brexit consequences, inflation, cost of living, - storm of brexit consequences, inflation, cost of living, and i storm of brexit consequences, i inflation, cost of living, and that reality, i— inflation, cost of living, and that reality, i think. _ inflation, cost of living, and that reality, ithink. how— inflation, cost of living, and that reality, i think. how long - inflation, cost of living, and that reality, i think. how long this. inflation, cost of living, and that reality, i think. how long this is| reality, i think. how long this is going _ reality, i think. how long this is going to — reality, i think. how long this is going to last. _ reality, i think. how long this is going to last, how— reality, i think. how long this is going to last, how slow- reality, i think. how long this is going to last, how slow any- reality, i think. how long this is- going to last, how slow any recovery is going _ going to last, how slow any recovery is going to _ going to last, how slow any recovery is going to be, — going to last, how slow any recovery is going to be, it— going to last, how slow any recovery is going to be, it hasn't— going to last, how slow any recovery is going to be, it hasn't really- is going to be, it hasn't really sunk— is going to be, it hasn't really sunk in— is going to be, it hasn't really sunk in and _ is going to be, it hasn't really sunk in and. we _ is going to be, it hasn't really sunk in and.— is going to be, it hasn't really sunk in and. we could use less ener: , sunk in and. we could use less energy, all— sunk in and. we could use less energy, all of— sunk in and. we could use less energy, all of us, _ sunk in and. we could use less energy, all of us, if— sunk in and. we could use less energy, all of us, if we - sunk in and. we could use less energy, all of us, if we had - sunk in and. we could use less energy, all of us, if we had to, sunk in and. we could use less l energy, all of us, if we had to, if we are _ energy, all of us, if we had to, if we are confronted with that and maybe — we are confronted with that and maybe it — we are confronted with that and maybe it is time that the world actually— maybe it is time that the world actually stopped and thought, we don't _ actually stopped and thought, we don't need to squander the amount of electricity~~~ _ don't need to squander the amount of electricity- - -—

electricity... absolutely, but the res - onse electricity... absolutely, but the response in _ electricity... absolutely, but the response in this _ electricity... absolutely, but the response in this country - electricity... absolutely, but the response in this country to - electricity... absolutely, but the response in this country to that l response in this country to that proposition, _ response in this country to that proposition, you _ response in this country to that proposition, you know, - response in this country to that proposition, you know, the - response in this country to that - proposition, you know, the obvious thing _ proposition, you know, the obvious thing to— proposition, you know, the obvious thing to do— proposition, you know, the obvious thing to do is to insulate british - thing to do is to insulate british houses, — thing to do is to insulate british houses, which _ thing to do is to insulate british houses, which are _ thing to do is to insulate british houses, which are the - thing to do is to insulate british . houses, which are the weakest and least _ houses, which are the weakest and least efficient— houses, which are the weakest and least efficient in _ houses, which are the weakest and least efficient in europe _ houses, which are the weakest and least efficient in europe and - houses, which are the weakest and least efficient in europe and all- least efficient in europe and all the government— least efficient in europe and all the government response - least efficient in europe and all the government response hasi least efficient in europe and all- the government response has been on the government response has been on the supply— the government response has been on the supply side, — the government response has been on the supply side, not— the government response has been on the supply side, not the _ the government response has been on the supply side, not the demand - the supply side, not the demand side, _ the supply side, not the demand side, so — the supply side, not the demand side, so talking... _ the supply side, not the demand side, so talking... instead - the supply side, not the demand side, so talking... instead of- side, so talking... instead of putting — side, so talking... instead of putting forward _ side, so talking... instead of putting forward a _ side, so talking... instead of| putting forward a programme side, so talking... instead of. putting forward a programme to insulate — putting forward a programme to insulate houses, _ putting forward a programme to insulate houses, they— putting forward a programme to insulate houses, they are - putting forward a programme toi insulate houses, they are talking about _ insulate houses, they are talking about more — insulate houses, they are talking about more oil— insulate houses, they are talking about more oil and _ insulate houses, they are talking about more oil and gas— insulate houses, they are talking about more oil and gas on- insulate houses, they are talking about more oil and gas on the i insulate houses, they are talking. about more oil and gas on the north sea, which _ about more oil and gas on the north sea, which will — about more oil and gas on the north sea, which will take _ about more oil and gas on the north sea, which will take 25 _ about more oil and gas on the north sea, which will take 25 years - about more oil and gas on the north sea, which will take 25 years and - sea, which will take 25 years and takes _ sea, which will take 25 years and takes through _ sea, which will take 25 years and takes through 2050. _ sea, which will take 25 years and takes through 2050.— sea, which will take 25 years and takes through 2050. yes, it is very interestin: takes through 2050. yes, it is very interesting in _ takes through 2050. yes, it is very interesting in that, _ takes through 2050. yes, it is very interesting in that, how _ takes through 2050. yes, it is very interesting in that, how this - takes through 2050. yes, it is very interesting in that, how this is - interesting in that, how this is coinciding with ideas about the need to tackle climate change, but i do think really big users of energy ultimately is big industry and big business and there's lots of talk about people in europe, they are prepared to wear an extra sweater or whatever, but really when it comes down to it i think the move is now in europe to not sanction russian gas, that is not on the table at the moment, any more sanctions when it comes to russian gas, in particular. it is really about the dependence of industry and business and i think thatis industry and business and i think that is happening in the background, that is happening in the background, that kind of lobbying. bud that is happening in the background, that kind of lobbying.— that kind of lobbying. and that is really interesting _

that kind of lobbying. and that is really interesting because - that kind of lobbying. and that is really interesting because the . that kind of lobbying. and that is| really interesting because the one thing they were able to agree on in g7 was they were going to sanction russian gold exports, which according to one expert i was speaking to bbc news earlier in the week, is a pretties small beer and it is the same problem on his programme mark roche was talking about a few months ago with diamonds, where you can mix the diamonds, where you can mix the diamonds up with other diamonds, so you don't know where they come from. you can do it with oil, indeed, there are a good point. so the sanctioning of these things can be very ineffective and they are going for what you might call the low hanging fruit because the oil and gas is just too tough. the hanging fruit because the oil and gas isjust too tough.— hanging fruit because the oil and gas is just too tough. gas isjust too tough. the price cap initiative is — gas isjust too tough. the price cap initiative is extreme _ gas isjust too tough. the price cap initiative is extreme because - gas isjust too tough. the price cap initiative is extreme because the i initiative is extreme because the g7, the — initiative is extreme because the g7, the clue _ initiative is extreme because the g7, the clue is _ initiative is extreme because the g7, the clue is in _ initiative is extreme because the g7, the clue is in the _ initiative is extreme because the g7, the clue is in the name, - initiative is extreme because the g7, the clue is in the name, that initiative is extreme because the . g7, the clue is in the name, that is seven— g7, the clue is in the name, that is seven countries, _ g7, the clue is in the name, that is seven countries, if— g7, the clue is in the name, that is seven countries, if you _ g7, the clue is in the name, that is seven countries, if you want - g7, the clue is in the name, that is seven countries, if you want a - seven countries, if you want a global— seven countries, if you want a global price _ seven countries, if you want a global price cap— seven countries, if you want a global price cap there - seven countries, if you want a global price cap there are - seven countries, if you want a - global price cap there are another 188 countries _ global price cap there are another 188 countries you _ global price cap there are another 188 countries you might _ global price cap there are another 188 countries you might have - global price cap there are another 188 countries you might have to l 188 countries you might have to consult — 188 countries you might have to consult that _ 188 countries you might have to consult. that is _ 188 countries you might have to consult. that is not _ 188 countries you might have to consult. that is not going - 188 countries you might have to consult. that is not going to - 188 countries you might have to - consult. that is not going to happen tomorrow, — consult. that is not going to happen tomorrow, even— consult. that is not going to happen tomorrow, even if— consult. that is not going to happen tomorrow, even if you _ consult. that is not going to happen tomorrow, even if you were - consult. that is not going to happen tomorrow, even if you were to - consult. that is not going to happen. tomorrow, even if you were to agree, india, _ tomorrow, even if you were to agree, india, china, — tomorrow, even if you were to agree, india, china, the _ tomorrow, even if you were to agree, india, china, the bloc— tomorrow, even if you were to agree, india, china, the bloc countries, - india, china, the bloc countries, actually— india, china, the bloc countries, actually if— india, china, the bloc countries, actually if you _ india, china, the bloc countries, actually if you look— india, china, the bloc countries, actually if you look across - india, china, the bloc countries, actually if you look across asia l actually if you look across asia most — actually if you look across asia most countries _ actually if you look across asia most countries are _ actually if you look across asia most countries are not - actually if you look across asia most countries are not opted i actually if you look across asia | most countries are not opted in actually if you look across asia - most countries are not opted in to sanctions~ — most countries are not opted in to sanctions. , , , , , :,

sanctions. just slightly up to m stic, sanctions. just slightly up to mystic, maybe _ sanctions. just slightly up to mystic, maybe this - sanctions. just slightly up to mystic, maybe this is - sanctions. just slightly up to mystic, maybe this is a - sanctions. just slightly up to mystic, maybe this is a bit l mystic, maybe this is a bit pollyanna —ish, —— back slightly optimistic _ pollyanna —ish, —— back slightly optimistic. but this would be the time _ optimistic. but this would be the time to— optimistic. but this would be the time to be — optimistic. but this would be the time to be thinking about energy policy— time to be thinking about energy policy and this whole drama has put aside _ policy and this whole drama has put aside all— policy and this whole drama has put aside all thoughts about cop26, it has all— aside all thoughts about cop26, it has all gone, nobody is talking about— has all gone, nobody is talking about climate any more, but actually this might _ about climate any more, but actually this might be the crunch moment where _ this might be the crunch moment where a _ this might be the crunch moment where a lot has to be done about climate _ where a lot has to be done about climate just add a force of necessity. climate just add a force of necessity-— climate just add a force of necessity. climate just add a force of necessi . �* , ., ~ ., ., necessity. let's talk about that because i was _ necessity. let's talk about that because i was very _ necessity. let's talk about that because i was very struck - necessity. let's talk about that | because i was very struck when necessity. let's talk about that i because i was very struck when i looked at the communique, which came out on the last day of the g7 and be well trying to scribble and keep up with what they were saying in the various translations of the various leaders' speech, but what chancellor schultz got them to commit to was to end the public support for the international fossil fuel energy sector by the end of 2022, except in limited circumstances clearly defined by each country. in other words, we have two...— defined by each country. in other words, we have two... ease! ijust words, we have two... easy! i 'ust

wonder, in — words, we have two... easy! i 'ust wonder, in that i words, we have two... easy! i 'ust wonder, in that kind i words, we have two... easy! i 'ust wonder, in that kind offl words, we have two... east ijust wonder, in that kind of context, words, we have two... e931i ijust wonder, in that kind of context, is it surprising you get a scepticism from the rest of the world, being told, this is what you should do, except when it gets a bit too painful for us except when it gets a bit too painfulfor us and then except when it gets a bit too painful for us and then we need to find ways out... painful for us and then we need to find ways out. . ._ find ways out... years they have a . reed find ways out... years they have agreed to _ find ways out... years they have agreed to end — find ways out... years they have agreed to end inefficient - find ways out... years they have agreed to end inefficient fossil l agreed to end inefficient fossil fuel subsidies. _ agreed to end inefficient fossil fuel subsidies. we _ agreed to end inefficient fossil fuel subsidies. we subsidise . agreed to end inefficient fossil - fuel subsidies. we subsidise fossil fuels _ fuel subsidies. we subsidise fossil fuels it— fuel subsidies. we subsidise fossil fuels~ it is— fuel subsidies. we subsidise fossil fuels. it is insane _ fuel subsidies. we subsidise fossil fuels. it is insane and _ fuel subsidies. we subsidise fossil fuels. it is insane and that- fuel subsidies. we subsidise fossil fuels. it is insane and that money| fuels. it is insane and that money could _ fuels. it is insane and that money could go— fuels. it is insane and that money could go towards _ fuels. it is insane and that money could go towards the _ fuels. it is insane and that money could go towards the support - fuels. it is insane and that money could go towards the support of l fuels. it is insane and that money. could go towards the support of the energy— could go towards the support of the energy transition, _ could go towards the support of the energy transition, interlacing - energy transition, interlacing houses, _ energy transition, interlacing houses, advancing _ energy transition, interlacing i houses, advancing renewables energy transition, interlacing - houses, advancing renewables and so on, and _ houses, advancing renewables and so on, and to— houses, advancing renewables and so on, and to be — houses, advancing renewables and so on, and to be fair— houses, advancing renewables and so on, and to be fair the _ houses, advancing renewables and so on, and to be fair the european- on, and to be fair the european union _ on, and to be fair the european union has — on, and to be fair the european union has a _ on, and to be fair the european union has a very— on, and to be fair the europeani union has a very comprehensive climate — union has a very comprehensive climate plan, _ union has a very comprehensive climate plan, which _ union has a very comprehensive climate plan, which it— union has a very comprehensive climate plan, which it has- union has a very comprehensive climate plan, which it has not. union has a very comprehensive i climate plan, which it has not gone back from, — climate plan, which it has not gone back from, but— climate plan, which it has not gone back from, but you _ climate plan, which it has not gone back from, but you do _ climate plan, which it has not gone back from, but you do get - climate plan, which it has not gonei back from, but you do get countries with particular— back from, but you do get countries with particular problems _ back from, but you do get countries with particular problems beginningi with particular problems beginning to wiggle, — with particular problems beginning to wiggle, so — with particular problems beginning to wiggle, so there _ with particular problems beginning to wiggle, so there were _ with particular problems beginning to wiggle, so there were those - with particular problems beginning| to wiggle, so there were those that argument _ to wiggle, so there were those that argument at — to wiggle, so there were those that argument at cop26 _ to wiggle, so there were those that argument at cop26 about - to wiggle, so there were those that argument at cop26 about phasing i to wiggle, so there were those that - argument at cop26 about phasing down coal, rather— argument at cop26 about phasing down coal, ratherthan— argument at cop26 about phasing down coal, rather than phasing _ argument at cop26 about phasing down coal, rather than phasing out... - coal, rather than phasing out... yes~ _ coal, rather than phasing out... yes. japan— coal, rather than phasing out... yes. japan making _ coal, rather than phasing out... yes. japan making his- coal, rather than phasing out... yes. japan making his point- coal, rather than phasing out... i yes. japan making his point again, just recently... and japan is just having a really difficult time, the weather is... it is a very short rainy season, full of intense heat, everybody is working on the air

conditioning... and they are worrying about everything else. everybody is facing a problem and collies _ everybody is facing a problem and collies being — everybody is facing a problem and collies being extended _ everybody is facing a problem and collies being extended quietly- everybody is facing a problem and collies being extended quietly alli collies being extended quietly all over the — collies being extended quietly all over the place _ collies being extended quietly all over the place.— over the place. even by green ministers _ over the place. even by green ministers in — over the place. even by green ministers in a _ over the place. even by green ministers in a german - over the place. even by green | ministers in a german coalition government.— ministers in a german coalition government. , , ., , ~ government. yes, but that is i think tem ora government. yes, but that is i think temporary and _ government. yes, but that is i think temporary and you _ government. yes, but that is i think temporary and you have _ government. yes, but that is i think temporary and you have to - government. yes, but that is i think temporary and you have to keep - government. yes, but that is i think temporary and you have to keep the lights _ temporary and you have to keep the lights on, _ temporary and you have to keep the lights on, mostly, _ temporary and you have to keep the lights on, mostly, but— temporary and you have to keep the lights on, mostly, but not— temporary and you have to keep the lights on, mostly, but not to - lights on, mostly, but not to abandon— lights on, mostly, but not to abandon the _ lights on, mostly, but not to abandon the longer—term . lights on, mostly, but not to _ abandon the longer—term commitment. i abandon the longer—term commitment. i mean, _ abandon the longer—term commitment. i mean, that— abandon the longer—term commitment. i mean, that is— abandon the longer—term commitment. i mean, that is the _ abandon the longer—term commitment. i mean, that is the irony— abandon the longer—term commitment. i mean, that is the irony of— abandon the longer—term commitment. i mean, that is the irony of this, - i mean, that is the irony of this, that in one sense, as polly was saying, that it underlines for everyone, what has happened with the russia and ukraine war, how we need to get on top of our fossil fuels, but on the other hand disallow in some countries off the hook, so particularly countries in northern europe are taking a tough stance against russia, they can turn around to the eu and say, we need to continue using our coal plants because what has happened is oil and gas... so it is actually allowing them to prolong the use of other fossil fuels, them to prolong the use of other fossilfuels, so them to prolong the use of other fossil fuels, so this could be temporary, but that depends how long this war is going to go on. that shift our focus _ this war is going to go on. that shift our focus a _ this war is going to go on. that shift our focus a bit _ this war is going to go on. that shift our focus a bit from - this war is going to go on. that shift our focus a bit from europe to china and the near east and in particular, two things that struck

me. one was the other big thing that happened in the 12 months since the last g7 was the pull—out from afghanistan and it is as if afghanistan and it is as if afghanistan has not happened. nobody talked about it, even at nato or it g7, which is a pretty damning admission of, you know, by its absence, of quite how dramatic it has been and nobody wants to talk about it, even though certainly from about it, even though certainly from a military point of view there was direct intervention for 20 years. but the other thing was in terms of china and this investment strategy. i wonder what you made of that? this commitment to provide money, £400 billion, overa number of years, investment strategy, which seemed to be a dad to be built on road policy. bolton road, yes. i put the wrong way round! itlat bolton road, yes. i put the wrong way round!— way round! not at all, it is easy do. yes, _ way round! not at all, it is easy do. yes, this _ way round! not at all, it is easy do. yes, this is _ way round! not at all, it is easy do. yes, this is actually - way round! not at all, it is easy do. yes, this is actually slightly refurbished _ do. yes, this is actually slightly refurbished and _ do. yes, this is actually slightly refurbished and repainted - do. yes, this is actually slightly. refurbished and repainted version do. yes, this is actually slightly- refurbished and repainted version of build back— refurbished and repainted version of build back better. _ refurbished and repainted version of build back better. yes. _ refurbished and repainted version of build back better.— build back better. yes, as if we could forget! _ build back better. yes, as if we could forget! it _ build back better. yes, as if we

could forget! it was _ build back better. yes, as if we could forget! it was only - build back better. yes, as if we could forget! it was only one i build back better. yes, as if we | could forget! it was only one g7 auo. and could forget! it was only one g7 ago- and again, _ could forget! it was only one g7 ago. and again, with _ could forget! it was only one g7 ago. and again, with great - could forget! it was only one g7 - ago. and again, with great fanfare, we are _ ago. and again, with great fanfare, we are going — ago. and again, with great fanfare, we are going to— ago. and again, with great fanfare, we are going to challenge - ago. and again, with great fanfare, we are going to challenge belton i we are going to challenge belton road _ we are going to challenge belton road because _ we are going to challenge belton road because china _ we are going to challenge belton road because china is— we are going to challenge belton road because china is a... - we are going to challenge belton road because china is a... we i we are going to challenge beltonl road because china is a... we are transparent— road because china is a... we are transparent and _ road because china is a... we are transparent and all— road because china is a... we are transparent and all of— road because china is a... we are transparent and all of that, - road because china is a... we are transparent and all of that, but i transparent and all of that, but then— transparent and all of that, but then nothing _ transparent and all of that, but then nothing happens, - transparent and all of that, but then nothing happens, so- transparent and all of that, but then nothing happens, so we i transparent and all of that, but i then nothing happens, so we are refurbishing _ then nothing happens, so we are refurbishing this— then nothing happens, so we are refurbishing this policy— then nothing happens, so we are refurbishing this policy again - then nothing happens, so we are| refurbishing this policy again with a little _ refurbishing this policy again with a little more... _ refurbishing this policy again with a little more... find _ refurbishing this policy again with a little more...— a little more... and in some of those essential _ a little more... and in some of those essential beneficiary - those essential beneficiary countries invited to put the case to the g7 members at this summit. indonesia, argentina, india, etc. yes, but none of it will mean anything _ yes, but none of it will mean anything unless— yes, but none of it will mean anything unless it _ yes, but none of it will mean anything unless it is - yes, but none of it will meani anything unless it is delivered yes, but none of it will mean. anything unless it is delivered at the problem _ anything unless it is delivered at the problem about _ anything unless it is delivered at the problem about delivery- anything unless it is delivered at the problem about delivery is i anything unless it is delivered at. the problem about delivery is that while~~~ _ the problem about delivery is that while~~~ a — the problem about delivery is that while... a chinese _ the problem about delivery is that while... a chinese enterprise - the problem about delivery is that while... a chinese enterprise can| while... a chinese enterprise can take _ while... a chinese enterprise can take a _ while... a chinese enterprise can take a big — while... a chinese enterprise can take a big risk— while... a chinese enterprise can take a big risk in _ while... a chinese enterprise can take a big risk in country- while... a chinese enterprise can take a big risk in country x - while... a chinese enterprise can l take a big risk in country x because it has— take a big risk in country x because it has the _ take a big risk in country x because it has the state _ take a big risk in country x because it has the state bank— take a big risk in country x because it has the state bank behind - take a big risk in country x because it has the state bank behind it, - take a big risk in country x because it has the state bank behind it, it. it has the state bank behind it, it has access— it has the state bank behind it, it has access to _ it has the state bank behind it, it has access to capital, _ it has the state bank behind it, it has access to capital, regardless| it has the state bank behind it, it. has access to capital, regardless of risk and _ has access to capital, regardless of risk and if— has access to capital, regardless of risk and if the — has access to capital, regardless of risk and if the state _ has access to capital, regardless of risk and if the state owned - risk and if the state owned enterprise _ risk and if the state owned enterprise goes— risk and if the state owned enterprise goes belly- risk and if the state owned enterprise goes belly up i risk and if the state owned i enterprise goes belly up the risk and if the state owned - enterprise goes belly up the state is going _ enterprise goes belly up the state is going to — enterprise goes belly up the state is going to bail— enterprise goes belly up the state is going to bail it— enterprise goes belly up the state is going to bail it out, _ enterprise goes belly up the state is going to bail it out, so- enterprise goes belly up the state is going to bail it out, so actuallyl is going to bail it out, so actually it is the — is going to bail it out, so actually it is the state _ is going to bail it out, so actually it is the state taking _ is going to bail it out, so actually it is the state taking the - is going to bail it out, so actually it is the state taking the risk. - is going to bail it out, so actually| it is the state taking the risk. our system _ it is the state taking the risk. our system does _ it is the state taking the risk. our system does not _ it is the state taking the risk. our system does not allow _ it is the state taking the risk. our system does not allow that, - it is the state taking the risk. our system does not allow that, so i it is the state taking the risk. our. system does not allow that, so you want _ system does not allow that, so you want private — system does not allow that, so you want private capital _ system does not allow that, so you want private capital to— system does not allow that, so you want private capital to to _ system does not allow that, so you want private capital to to go - system does not allow that, so you want private capital to to go in? . system does not allow that, so you want private capital to to go in? iti want private capital to to go in? it

is looking — want private capital to to go in? it is looking round _ want private capital to to go in? it is looking round for— want private capital to to go in? it is looking round for who _ want private capital to to go in? it is looking round for who is - want private capital to to go in? it is looking round for who is the - is looking round for who is the guarantor, _ is looking round for who is the guarantor, looking _ is looking round for who is the guarantor, looking for- is looking round for who is the - guarantor, looking for multilateral endings— guarantor, looking for multilateral endings to — guarantor, looking for multilateral endings to come _ guarantor, looking for multilateral endings to come with _ guarantor, looking for multilateral endings to come with it _ guarantor, looking for multilateral endings to come with it and - guarantor, looking for multilaterall endings to come with it and putting those _ endings to come with it and putting those things — endings to come with it and putting those things together— endings to come with it and putting those things together requires - endings to come with it and puttingl those things together requires focus and consistency, _ those things together requires focus and consistency, which _ those things together requires focus and consistency, which is _ those things together requires focus and consistency, which is big - and consistency, which is big promises _ and consistency, which is big promises so _ and consistency, which is big promises so far— and consistency, which is big promises so far haven't - and consistency, which is big promises so far haven't had. | promises so far haven't had. bluntly, _ promises so far haven't had. bluntly, do _ promises so far haven't had. bluntly, do you _ promises so far haven't had. bluntly, do you think, - promises so far haven't had. i bluntly, do you think, wearing promises so far haven't had. - bluntly, do you think, wearing a trade hat, as it were, but this is a good investment? in other words, is it going to get the influence we seem to hope we will get and prevent china further extending its influence in africa, the caribbean i think it may do, but the big problem is is it too late?— is is it too late? china has been auoin is is it too late? china has been going into _ is is it too late? china has been going into these _ is is it too late? china has been going into these countries - is is it too late? china has been going into these countries for l is is it too late? china has been - going into these countries for some time and as you are saying there, from the eu and the western partners, they have a lot more checks and balances and is more long—term investment and really in some conferences recently african leaders made the point, how long are we supposed to wait? when someone is offering the money straight up and they are ready to go in, they don't see the advantage of waiting for the european money. linking back to what you said there about afghanistan, who seemed to have been forgotten

about. a lot of leaders in africa are saying, we know there is a huge war in ukraine, but we have conflicts all over our continent all the time and why isn't there the same level of interest in that? taste same level of interest in that? we will talk about food towards the end of the programme, but let's talk a bit about china in particular in light of the hong kong anniversary and xijinping's light of the hong kong anniversary and xi jinping's interesting interpretation of recent history. isabel hilton, remind us of how we got to the stage? the history of this wasn't british, we had it under a long lease. take us back. {liiq a long lease. take us back. 0k, oium a long lease. take us back. 0k, opium war, _ a long lease. take us back. 0k, opium war, 1842, _ a long lease. take us back. 0k, opium war, 1842, we _ a long lease. take us back. 0k, opium war, 1842, we get hong kong island: _ opium war, 1842, we get hong kong island. ~ :, :, opium war, 1842, we get hong kong island. ~ . . , . island. what are the most shameful events in british _ island. what are the most shameful events in british history. _ island. what are the most shameful events in british history. i _ island. what are the most shameful events in british history. i would - events in british history. i would not art ue events in british history. i would not argue with _ events in british history. i would not argue with that. _ events in british history. i would not argue with that. that - events in british history. i would not argue with that. that gave i events in british history. i would| not argue with that. that gave us hong _ not argue with that. that gave us hong kong — not argue with that. that gave us hong kong island _ not argue with that. that gave us hong kong island in— not argue with that. that gave us hong kong island in perpetuity, i not argue with that. that gave us i hong kong island in perpetuity, but hon- hong kong island in perpetuity, but hong kong — hong kong island in perpetuity, but hong kong island _ hong kong island in perpetuity, but hong kong island is— hong kong island in perpetuity, but hong kong island is in— hong kong island in perpetuity, but hong kong island is in sustainable i hong kong island is in sustainable on its _ hong kong island is in sustainable on its own, — hong kong island is in sustainable on its own, so— hong kong island is in sustainable on its own, so we _ hong kong island is in sustainable on its own, so we then _ hong kong island is in sustainable on its own, so we then later- on its own, so we then later acguired _ on its own, so we then later acquired calhoun— on its own, so we then later acquired calhoun and - on its own, so we then later acquired calhoun and in - on its own, so we then laterl acquired calhoun and in 1898 on its own, so we then later- acquired calhoun and in 1898 we acquired — acquired calhoun and in 1898 we acquired a100 _ acquired calhoun and in 1898 we acquired a100 year— acquired calhoun and in 1898 we acquired a100 year lease - acquired calhoun and in 1898 we acquired a100 year lease on - acquired calhoun and in 1898 we acquired a100 year lease on the | acquired calhoun and in 1898 we - acquired a100 year lease on the new territories _ acquired a100 year lease on the new territories. now, _ acquired a100 year lease on the new territories. now, that— acquired a100 year lease on the new territories. now, that lease - acquired a100 year lease on the new territories. now, that lease was - territories. now, that lease was coming — territories. now, that lease was coming to— territories. now, that lease was coming to an _ territories. now, that lease was coming to an end, _ territories. now, that lease was coming to an end, which- territories. now, that lease was i coming to an end, which wrenched territories. now, that lease was - coming to an end, which wrenched so the new— coming to an end, which wrenched so the new territories _ coming to an end, which wrenched so the new territories take _

coming to an end, which wrenched so the new territories take in _ coming to an end, which wrenched so the new territories take in hong - the new territories take in hong kong, _ the new territories take in hong kong, carl— the new territories take in hong kong, carl hoon... _ the new territories take in hong kong, carl hoon... no, - the new territories take in hong kong, carl hoon... no, not- the new territories take in hong kong, carl hoon... no, not the| kong, carl hoon... no, not the island, — kong, carl hoon... no, not the island, that— kong, carl hoon... no, not the island, that is— kong, carl hoon... no, not the island, that isjust _ kong, carl hoon... no, not the island, that is just the - kong, carl hoon... no, not the| island, that isjust the mainland part of— island, that isjust the mainland part of it, — island, that isjust the mainland part of it, but _ island, that isjust the mainland part of it, but from _ island, that isjust the mainland part of it, but from that - island, that isjust the mainland part of it, but from that main. island, that isjust the mainland i part of it, but from that main part, or the _ part of it, but from that main part, or the water, — part of it, but from that main part, or the water, energy, _ part of it, but from that main part, or the water, energy, you - part of it, but from that main part, or the water, energy, you can't- or the water, energy, you can't survive _ or the water, energy, you can't survive on — or the water, energy, you can't survive on hong _ or the water, energy, you can't survive on hong kong - or the water, energy, you can't survive on hong kong island i or the water, energy, you can't- survive on hong kong island without the back-ups— survive on hong kong island without the back—ups from _ survive on hong kong island without the back—ups from the _ survive on hong kong island without the back—ups from the mainland, i survive on hong kong island without the back—ups from the mainland, soj the back—ups from the mainland, so without— the back—ups from the mainland, so without that — the back—ups from the mainland, so without that lease _ the back—ups from the mainland, so without that lease it _ the back—ups from the mainland, so without that lease it was _ the back—ups from the mainland, so without that lease it was clear- the back—ups from the mainland, so without that lease it was clear hong| without that lease it was clear hong kon- without that lease it was clear hong kong island — without that lease it was clear hong kong island was _ without that lease it was clear hong kong island was going _ without that lease it was clear hong kong island was going to _ without that lease it was clear hong kong island was going to have - without that lease it was clear hong kong island was going to have to i without that lease it was clear hongj kong island was going to have to go back to _ kong island was going to have to go back to china, — kong island was going to have to go back to china, so _ kong island was going to have to go back to china, so we _ kong island was going to have to go back to china, so we began - kong island was going to have to go back to china, so we began to - back to china, so we began to negotiate _ back to china, so we began to negotiate. thatcher— back to china, so we began to negotiate. thatcher and - back to china, so we began to negotiate. thatcher and xi - back to china, so we began to - negotiate. thatcher and xi jinping's her predecessor— negotiate. thatcher and xi jinping's her predecessor signed _ negotiate. thatcher and xi jinping's her predecessor signed the - her predecessor signed the declaration, _ her predecessor signed the declaration, which- her predecessor signed the declaration, which was - her predecessor signed the declaration, which was to l her predecessor signed the i declaration, which was to the assistant— declaration, which was to the assistant principal— declaration, which was to the assistant principal which - declaration, which was to the - assistant principal which promised that for— assistant principal which promised that for 50 — assistant principal which promised that for 50 years _ assistant principal which promised that for 50 years hong _ assistant principal which promised that for 50 years hong kong - assistant principal which promised| that for 50 years hong kong would stay pretty— that for 50 years hong kong would stay pretty much _ that for 50 years hong kong would stay pretty much internally, - that for 50 years hong kong would stay pretty much internally, as - that for 50 years hong kong would stay pretty much internally, as it i stay pretty much internally, as it was, _ stay pretty much internally, as it was, but — stay pretty much internally, as it was, but the _ stay pretty much internally, as it was, but the sovereignty- stay pretty much internally, as it was, but the sovereignty would i was, but the sovereignty would return — was, but the sovereignty would return to — was, but the sovereignty would return to china. _ was, but the sovereignty would return to china. find _ was, but the sovereignty would return to china.— was, but the sovereignty would return to china. and that was in 1947? indeed, _ return to china. and that was in 1947? indeed, and _ return to china. and that was in 1947? indeed, and the - return to china. and that was in 1947? indeed, and the details l return to china. and that was in | 1947? indeed, and the details of that were further _ 1947? indeed, and the details of that were further negotiated - 1947? indeed, and the details ofj that were further negotiated and what is _ that were further negotiated and what is called _ that were further negotiated and what is called the _ that were further negotiated and what is called the basic- that were further negotiated and what is called the basic law, - that were further negotiated and i what is called the basic law, which is the _ what is called the basic law, which is the hong — what is called the basic law, which is the hong kong _ what is called the basic law, which is the hong kong mini— what is called the basic law, which is the hong kong mini constitution| is the hong kong mini constitution and that— is the hong kong mini constitution and that guaranteed _ is the hong kong mini constitution and that guaranteed rule - is the hong kong mini constitution and that guaranteed rule of- is the hong kong mini constitution and that guaranteed rule of law, l and that guaranteed rule of law, separation — and that guaranteed rule of law, separation of _ and that guaranteed rule of law, separation of powers. _ and that guaranteed rule of law, separation of powers. the - and that guaranteed rule of law, i separation of powers. the liberties hong _ separation of powers. the liberties hong kong — separation of powers. the liberties hong kong had, _ separation of powers. the liberties hong kong had, with— separation of powers. the liberties hong kong had, with the _ separation of powers. the liberties hong kong had, with the promise. separation of powers. the liberties i hong kong had, with the promise that they would _ hong kong had, with the promise that they would be — hong kong had, with the promise that they would be a — hong kong had, with the promise that they would be a widening _ hong kong had, with the promise that they would be a widening of— hong kong had, with the promise that they would be a widening of the - they would be a widening of the franchise — they would be a widening of the franchise and _ they would be a widening of the franchise and they— they would be a widening of the franchise and they would - they would be a widening of the franchise and they would have i they would be a widening of thej franchise and they would have a wider— franchise and they would have a wider chance _ franchise and they would have a wider chance to _ franchise and they would have a wider chance to elect _ franchise and they would have a wider chance to elect the - franchise and they would have a i wider chance to elect the executive council _ wider chance to elect the executive council and — wider chance to elect the executive council and so, _ wider chance to elect the executive council. and so, that— wider chance to elect the executive council. and so, that was- wider chance to elect the executive council. and so, that was fine - wider chance to elect the executive

council. and so, that was fine for. council. and so, that was fine for the first— council. and so, that was fine for the first 10-15— council. and so, that was fine for the first 10—15 years, _ council. and so, that was fine for the first 10—15 years, although i council. and so, that was fine for the first 10—15 years, although iti the first 10—15 years, although it was being — the first 10—15 years, although it was being nibbled _ the first 10—15 years, although it was being nibbled at. _ the first 10-15 years, although it was being nibbled at.— the first 10—15 years, although it was being nibbled at. yes. ,- the first 10—15 years, although it was being nibbled at. yes. , butj the first 10—15 years, although it - was being nibbled at. yes. , but the trouble was being nibbled at. , but the trouble began when the was being nibbled at.“ , but the trouble began when the chinese - trouble began when the chinese wanted — trouble began when the chinese wanted to— trouble began when the chinese wanted to reform _ trouble began when the chinese wanted to reform the _ trouble began when the chinese wanted to reform the school - wanted to reform the school curriculum, _ wanted to reform the school curriculum, which _ wanted to reform the school curriculum, which provokedl wanted to reform the school. curriculum, which provoked the students, — curriculum, which provoked the students, led _ curriculum, which provoked the students, led by— curriculum, which provoked the students, led byjoshua - curriculum, which provoked the students, led byjoshua wong, | curriculum, which provoked the - students, led byjoshua wong, then 14, to _ students, led byjoshua wong, then 14, to protest — students, led byjoshua wong, then 14, to protest and _ students, led byjoshua wong, then 14, to protest and from _ students, led byjoshua wong, then 14, to protest and from then - students, led byjoshua wong, then 14, to protest and from then on- students, led byjoshua wong, then 14, to protest and from then on it i 14, to protest and from then on it was an— 14, to protest and from then on it was an escalating _ 14, to protest and from then on it was an escalating series - 14, to protest and from then on it was an escalating series of- 14, to protest and from then on it i was an escalating series of attempts by china _ was an escalating series of attempts by china to _ was an escalating series of attempts by china to impose _ was an escalating series of attempts by china to impose controls - was an escalating series of attempts by china to impose controls and - by china to impose controls and progressive _ by china to impose controls and progressive resistance - by china to impose controls and progressive resistance from - by china to impose controls and progressive resistance from a i by china to impose controls and - progressive resistance from a hong kong, _ progressive resistance from a hong kong, which— progressive resistance from a hong kong, which ended _ progressive resistance from a hong kong, which ended up _ progressive resistance from a hong kong, which ended up in _ progressive resistance from a hong kong, which ended up in the - progressive resistance from a hong kong, which ended up in the final. kong, which ended up in the final year with— kong, which ended up in the final year with really_ kong, which ended up in the final year with really quite _ kong, which ended up in the final year with really quite violent - year with really quite violent confrontation. _ year with really quite violent confrontation. but _ year with really quite violent confrontation. but after- year with really quite violent confrontation. but after a i year with really quite violent i confrontation. but after a year year with really quite violent - confrontation. but after a year of very violent _ confrontation. but after a year of very violent confrontation, - confrontation. but after a year of very violent confrontation, whichj very violent confrontation, which was a _ very violent confrontation, which was a response _ very violent confrontation, which was a response to _ very violent confrontation, which was a response to carrie - very violent confrontation, which was a response to carrie lam, i very violent confrontation, which i was a response to carrie lam, the then— was a response to carrie lam, the then chief— was a response to carrie lam, the then chief executive, _ was a response to carrie lam, the then chief executive, trying - was a response to carrie lam, the then chief executive, trying to - then chief executive, trying to impose — then chief executive, trying to impose an _ then chief executive, trying to impose an extradition - then chief executive, trying to impose an extradition law, - then chief executive, trying to i impose an extradition law, which would _ impose an extradition law, which would mean _ impose an extradition law, which would mean people _ impose an extradition law, which would mean people from - impose an extradition law, which would mean people from hong i impose an extradition law, which . would mean people from hong kong could be _ would mean people from hong kong could be tried — would mean people from hong kong could be tried in _ would mean people from hong kong could be tried in china, _ would mean people from hong kong could be tried in china, big - could be tried in china, big problem, _ could be tried in china, big problem, after— could be tried in china, big problem, after a _ could be tried in china, big problem, after a year- could be tried in china, big problem, after a year of. could be tried in china, big. problem, after a year of those could be tried in china, big - problem, after a year of those very, very fierce _ problem, after a year of those very, very fierce confrontation _ problem, after a year of those very, very fierce confrontation is, - problem, after a year of those very, very fierce confrontation is, there i very fierce confrontation is, there were _ very fierce confrontation is, there were some — very fierce confrontation is, there were some district _ very fierce confrontation is, there were some district elections, - very fierce confrontation is, there were some district elections, the| were some district elections, the lower— were some district elections, the lower level— were some district elections, the lower level elections _ were some district elections, the lower level elections and - were some district elections, the lower level elections and the - lower level elections and the opposition— lower level elections and the opposition won _ lower level elections and the opposition won 90% - lower level elections and the opposition won 90% of- lower level elections and the opposition won 90% of the i lower level elections and the - opposition won 90% of the seats. so carolann's_ opposition won 90% of the seats. so carolann's position, _ opposition won 90% of the seats. so carolann's position, that— opposition won 90% of the seats. so carolann's position, that she - opposition won 90% of the seats. so carolann's position, that she was - carolann's position, that she was defending — carolann's position, that she was defending the _ carolann's position, that she was defending the people _ carolann's position, that she was defending the people of- carolann's position, that she was defending the people of hong - carolann's position, that she was i defending the people of hong kong against _ defending the people of hong kong against these — defending the people of hong kong against these nasty— defending the people of hong kong against these nasty opposition - against these nasty opposition figures, — against these nasty opposition figures, was _ against these nasty opposition

figures, was completely- against these nasty opposition - figures, was completely destroyed and that— figures, was completely destroyed and that is— figures, was completely destroyed and that is when _ figures, was completely destroyed and that is when the _ figures, was completely destroyed and that is when the national- and that is when the national security— and that is when the national security law— and that is when the national security law comes - and that is when the national security law comes in - and that is when the national security law comes in and i and that is when the national. security law comes in and that and that is when the national- security law comes in and that locks up security law comes in and that locks up the _ security law comes in and that locks up the opposition, _ security law comes in and that locks up the opposition, it _ security law comes in and that locks up the opposition, it postpones - security law comes in and that locks up the opposition, it postpones the i up the opposition, it postpones the legislative — up the opposition, it postpones the legislative elections, _ up the opposition, it postpones the legislative elections, which- up the opposition, it postpones the legislative elections, which were i legislative elections, which were due in— legislative elections, which were due in a — legislative elections, which were due in a year's— legislative elections, which were due in a year's time _ legislative elections, which were due in a year's time and - legislative elections, which were due in a year's time and now- legislative elections, which were due in a year's time and now we | legislative elections, which were - due in a year's time and now we have hong _ due in a year's time and now we have hong kong, _ due in a year's time and now we have hong kong, which _ due in a year's time and now we have hong kong, which has _ due in a year's time and now we have hong kong, which has lost _ due in a year's time and now we have hong kong, which has lost its - hong kong, which has lost its liberty— hong kong, which has lost its liberty and _ hong kong, which has lost its liberty and will— hong kong, which has lost its liberty and will be _ hong kong, which has lost its liberty and will be reduced to| hong kong, which has lost its - liberty and will be reduced to being another— liberty and will be reduced to being another city — liberty and will be reduced to being another city in _ liberty and will be reduced to being another city in china. _ liberty and will be reduced to being another city in china. buil— liberty and will be reduced to being another city in china.— another city in china. but did you in any- -- did _ another city in china. but did you in any... did you _ another city in china. but did you in any... did you have _ another city in china. but did you in any... did you have any - in any... did you have any expectation, really, that these freedoms would last? it always seemed — freedoms would last? it always seemed unrealistic and we left not really— seemed unrealistic and we left not really very— seemed unrealistic and we left not really very honourably, kind of knowing — really very honourably, kind of knowing that they had had it. 0pinions _ knowing that they had had it. opinions varied, to be honest. i was at the _ opinions varied, to be honest. i was at the beginning _ opinions varied, to be honest. i was at the beginning relatively _ at the beginning relatively pessimistic, _ at the beginning relatively pessimistic, but _ at the beginning relatively pessimistic, but then - at the beginning relatively pessimistic, but then teni at the beginning relatively - pessimistic, but then ten years i thought— pessimistic, but then ten years i thought i— pessimistic, but then ten years i thought i was— pessimistic, but then ten years i thought i was wrong, _ pessimistic, but then ten years i thought i was wrong, i— pessimistic, but then ten years i thought i was wrong, i thought i pessimistic, but then ten years i - thought i was wrong, i thought china needs— thought i was wrong, i thought china needs hong — thought i was wrong, i thought china needs hong kong _ thought i was wrong, i thought china needs hong kong because _ thought i was wrong, i thought china needs hong kong because it- thought i was wrong, i thought china needs hong kong because it was... i needs hong kong because it was... because _ needs hong kong because it was... because the — needs hong kong because it was... because the golden _ needs hong kong because it was... because the golden egg. _ needs hong kong because it was... because the golden egg. it- needs hong kong because it was... because the golden egg.— because the golden egg. it was the noose that because the golden egg. it was the goose that laid _ because the golden egg. it was the goose that laid the _ because the golden egg. it was the goose that laid the golden - because the golden egg. it was the goose that laid the golden egg - because the golden egg. it was the goose that laid the golden egg and | goose that laid the golden egg and it actually— goose that laid the golden egg and it actually doing _ goose that laid the golden egg and it actually doing any _ goose that laid the golden egg and it actually doing any harm, - goose that laid the golden egg and it actually doing any harm, hong i it actually doing any harm, hong kong _ it actually doing any harm, hong kong was— it actually doing any harm, hong kong was not— it actually doing any harm, hong kong was not actually— it actually doing any harm, hong kong was not actually damaging | kong was not actually damaging china~ _ kong was not actually damaging china~ when _ kong was not actually damaging china. when you _ kong was not actually damaging china. when you get _ kong was not actually damaging china. when you get to - kong was not actually damaging china. when you get to the - kong was not actually damaging i china. when you get to the point kong was not actually damaging. china. when you get to the point of 2012 when— china. when you get to the point of 2012 when xi — china. when you get to the point of 2012 when xi jinping _ china. when you get to the point of 2012 when xi jinping comes - china. when you get to the point of 2012 when xi jinping comes in - china. when you get to the point of 2012 when xi jinping comes in and i 2012 when xi jinping comes in and the party— 2012 when xi jinping comes in and the party is — 2012 when xi jinping comes in and the party is seriously— 2012 when xi jinping comes in and the party is seriously anxious - 2012 when xi jinping comes in and.

the party is seriously anxious about its own— the party is seriously anxious about its own survival, _ the party is seriously anxious about its own survival, and _ the party is seriously anxious about its own survival, and there - the party is seriously anxious about its own survival, and there is - the party is seriously anxious about its own survival, and there is a - its own survival, and there is a list of— its own survival, and there is a list of things _ its own survival, and there is a list of things that _ its own survival, and there is a list of things that the - its own survival, and there is a list of things that the party - list of things that the party regards _ list of things that the party regards as— list of things that the party regards as a _ list of things that the party regards as a threat - list of things that the party regards as a threat to - list of things that the party regards as a threat to its i list of things that the party - regards as a threat to its continued survival _ regards as a threat to its continued survival they— regards as a threat to its continued survival. they include _ regards as a threat to its continued survival. they include rule - regards as a threat to its continued survival. they include rule of- regards as a threat to its continued survival. they include rule of law, i survival. they include rule of law, freedom — survival. they include rule of law, freedom of— survival. they include rule of law, freedom of the _ survival. they include rule of law, freedom of the press, _ survival. they include rule of law, freedom of the press, all- survival. they include rule of law, freedom of the press, all the - survival. they include rule of law, i freedom of the press, all the things that hong _ freedom of the press, all the things that hong kong _ freedom of the press, all the things that hong kong have _ freedom of the press, all the things that hong kong have and _ freedom of the press, all the things that hong kong have and that- freedom of the press, all the things that hong kong have and that is- freedom of the press, all the things l that hong kong have and that is when you begin _ that hong kong have and that is when you begin to— that hong kong have and that is when you begin to see _ that hong kong have and that is when you begin to see the _ that hong kong have and that is when you begin to see the control... - that hong kong have and that is when you begin to see the control... find. you begin to see the control... and is that the — you begin to see the control... and is that the point _ you begin to see the control... is that the point at which we then start to worry about tie oneof the... ~ . . v start to worry about tie oneof the... ~ . . �*, , , start to worry about tie oneof the... . . �*, , , the... well, taiwan's destiny starts to worry about _ the... well, taiwan's destiny starts to worry about taiwan _ the... well, taiwan's destiny starts to worry about taiwan because - the... well, taiwan's destiny starts to worry about taiwan because the | to worry about taiwan because the proposition— to worry about taiwan because the proposition for— to worry about taiwan because the proposition for taiwan _ to worry about taiwan because the proposition for taiwan was - to worry about taiwan because the proposition for taiwan was going l to worry about taiwan because the i proposition for taiwan was going to be another— proposition for taiwan was going to be another version _ proposition for taiwan was going to be another version of _ proposition for taiwan was going to be another version of one - proposition for taiwan was going to be another version of one country. be another version of one country two systems, _ be another version of one country two systems, as _ be another version of one country two systems, as it— be another version of one country two systems, as it actually- be another version of one country two systems, as it actually was i be another version of one country two systems, as it actually was in tibet _ two systems, as it actually was in tibet you — two systems, as it actually was in tibet. you know, _ two systems, as it actually was in tibet. you know, the _ two systems, as it actually was in tibet. you know, the initial- tibet. you know, the initial agreement— tibet. you know, the initial agreement in— tibet. you know, the initial agreement in tibet - tibet. you know, the initialj agreement in tibet allowed tibet. you know, the initial- agreement in tibet allowed internal autonomy, — agreement in tibet allowed internal autonomy, all— agreement in tibet allowed internal autonomy, all the _ agreement in tibet allowed internal autonomy, all the things _ agreement in tibet allowed internal autonomy, all the things that - agreement in tibet allowed internal autonomy, all the things that you i autonomy, all the things that you see in— autonomy, all the things that you see in hong — autonomy, all the things that you see in hong kong _ autonomy, all the things that you see in hong kong and _ autonomy, all the things that you see in hong kong and that - autonomy, all the things that you see in hong kong and that didn'ti see in hong kong and that didn't last _ see in hong kong and that didn't last so — see in hong kong and that didn't last so of— see in hong kong and that didn't last. so of course, _ see in hong kong and that didn't last. so of course, tie _ see in hong kong and that didn't last. so of course, tie one - see in hong kong and that didn't last. so of course, tie one then. last. so of course, tie one then thinks — last. so of course, tie one then thinks there _ last. so of course, tie one then thinks there is _ last. so of course, tie one then thinks there is going _ last. so of course, tie one then thinks there is going to - last. so of course, tie one then thinks there is going to be - last. so of course, tie one then thinks there is going to be no. thinks there is going to be no satisfactory _ thinks there is going to be no satisfactory resolution - thinks there is going to be no satisfactory resolution for- thinks there is going to be no. satisfactory resolution for them thinks there is going to be no- satisfactory resolution for them —— tie won— satisfactory resolution for them —— tie won then — satisfactory resolution for them —— tie won then thinks _ satisfactory resolution for them —— tie won then thinks this. _ satisfactory resolution for them —— tie won then thinks this. so - satisfactory resolution for them —— tie won then thinks this. so yes, i tie won then thinks this. so yes, that becomes _ tie won then thinks this. so yes, that becomes a _ tie won then thinks this. so yes, that becomes a hostile - tie won then thinks this. so yes, | that becomes a hostile situation. under— that becomes a hostile situation. under xi — that becomes a hostile situation. under xi jinping _ that becomes a hostile situation. underxijinping this— that becomes a hostile situation. under xi jinping this all- that becomes a hostile situation. | under xi jinping this all happened in the last ten years or so and then this is kind of... and that is why this is kind of... and that is why

this concern about taiwan in particular. this concern about taiwan in particular-— this concern about taiwan in articular. . , , . . , . particular. perhaps admirable that liz truss should _ particular. perhaps admirable that liz truss should talk _ particular. perhaps admirable that liz truss should talk to _ particular. perhaps admirable that liz truss should talk to about - liz truss should talk to about taiwan and she is supportive... ida. taiwan and she is supportive... no, it is not admirable, it is pathetic, it is not admirable, it is pathetic, it sounds— it is not admirable, it is pathetic, it sounds absurd. little england strutting — it sounds absurd. little england strutting about, saying... was saying — strutting about, saying... was saying in— strutting about, saying... was saying in the times today, the uk will not _ saying in the times today, the uk will not rest until hong kong gets back its— will not rest until hong kong gets back its freedoms. but will not rest until hong kong gets back its freedoms.— back its freedoms. but that is the cuestion i back its freedoms. but that is the question i raise, _ back its freedoms. but that is the question i raise, whether- back its freedoms. but that is the question i raise, whether in - back its freedoms. but that is the question i raise, whether in a - back its freedoms. but that is the i question i raise, whether in a sense you can sabre rattle like palmerston used to sabre rattle, but you have got to have something... is hong kong unfortunately an example of us not being able to follow through on our promises? and therefore why would taiwan take up our promises seriously? taste would taiwan take up our promises seriousl ? ~ . , ., seriously? we were directly involved because we are _ seriously? we were directly involved because we are a _ seriously? we were directly involved because we are a signatory - seriously? we were directly involved because we are a signatory of - seriously? we were directly involved because we are a signatory of an - because we are a signatory of an international— because we are a signatory of an international treaty _ because we are a signatory of an international treaty and - because we are a signatory of an international treaty and we - because we are a signatory of an international treaty and we were j international treaty and we were meant _ international treaty and we were meant to— international treaty and we were meant to help _ international treaty and we were meant to help guarantee - international treaty and we were meant to help guarantee hong i international treaty and we were - meant to help guarantee hong kong's future _ meant to help guarantee hong kong's future the _ meant to help guarantee hong kong's future. the united _ meant to help guarantee hong kong's future. the united states _ meant to help guarantee hong kong's future. the united states plays- meant to help guarantee hong kong's future. the united states plays that i future. the united states plays that role in _ future. the united states plays that role in taiwan — future. the united states plays that role in taiwan and _ future. the united states plays that role in taiwan and actually- future. the united states plays that role in taiwan and actually it - future. the united states plays that role in taiwan and actually it is - role in taiwan and actually it is worse — role in taiwan and actually it is worse li2— role in taiwan and actually it is worse. liz truss _ role in taiwan and actually it is worse. liz truss talking - role in taiwan and actually it is worse. liz truss talking about i worse. liz truss talking about supplying _ worse. liz truss talking about supplying arms _ worse. liz truss talking about supplying arms to _ worse. liz truss talking about supplying arms to taiwan, - worse. liz truss talking about i supplying arms to taiwan, guess worse. liz truss talking about - supplying arms to taiwan, guess who we have _

supplying arms to taiwan, guess who we have actually— supplying arms to taiwan, guess who we have actually supplied _ supplying arms to taiwan, guess who we have actually supplied arms - supplying arms to taiwan, guess who we have actually supplied arms to? i we have actually supplied arms to? it is we have actually supplied arms to? it is the _ we have actually supplied arms to? it is the chinese _ we have actually supplied arms to? it is the chinese navy, _ we have actually supplied arms to? it is the chinese navy, we - we have actually supplied arms to? it is the chinese navy, we have - it is the chinese navy, we have supplied — it is the chinese navy, we have supplied them _ it is the chinese navy, we have supplied them with _ it is the chinese navy, we have supplied them with radar- it is the chinese navy, we have - supplied them with radar equipment, despite _ supplied them with radar equipment, despite there — supplied them with radar equipment, despite there being _ supplied them with radar equipment, despite there being an— supplied them with radar equipment, despite there being an embargo- despite there being an embargo imposed — despite there being an embargo imposed after _ despite there being an embargo imposed after tiananmen - despite there being an embargoi imposed after tiananmen square. despite there being an embargo- imposed after tiananmen square. find imposed after tiananmen square. and also imposed after tiananmen square. also supplies and fine military socks to china, i know because i went to the factory two years ago, and i was given two pairs of them, which are declared. fin and i was given two pairs of them, which are declared.— and i was given two pairs of them, which are declared. on liz truss, to be fair, joe — which are declared. on liz truss, to be fair, joe biden, _ which are declared. on liz truss, to be fair, joe biden, the _ which are declared. on liz truss, to be fair, joe biden, the president i which are declared. on liz truss, to be fair, joe biden, the president of| be fair, joe biden, the president of the united states, during his trip to japan in the united states, during his trip tojapan in may the united states, during his trip to japan in may also suggested that the us would go in militarily, if needed. �* ~ ., , needed. and the white house then went to clarify... _ needed. and the white house then went to clarify... he _ needed. and the white house then went to clarify... he has _ needed. and the white house then went to clarify... he has done - needed. and the white house then went to clarify... he has done that| went to clarify... he has done that three _ went to clarify... he has done that three times — went to clarify. .. he has done that three times-_ three times. the analogy is, and come out _ three times. the analogy is, and come out of _ three times. the analogy is, and come out of a — three times. the analogy is, and come out of a nato _ three times. the analogy is, and come out of a nato summit - three times. the analogy is, and come out of a nato summit this | three times. the analogy is, and - come out of a nato summit this week because for the first time china was mentioned as a challenge in a big blueprint of every ten years... find blueprint of every ten years... and even made — blueprint of every ten years... and even made it _ blueprint of every ten years... and even made it into the g7 communique. exactly, but the analogy everyone was talking about there was is china going to be the next russia? could there be an invasion, the weather was with russia and ukraine? it there be an invasion, the weather was with russia and ukraine? it does make a bit more _ was with russia and ukraine? it does make a bit more sense _ was with russia and ukraine? it does make a bit more sense for _ was with russia and ukraine? it does make a bit more sense forjoe - was with russia and ukraine? it does make a bit more sense forjoe bidenl make a bit more sense forjoe biden to say— make a bit more sense forjoe biden

to say it _ make a bit more sense forjoe biden to say it because _ make a bit more sense forjoe biden to say it because there _ make a bit more sense forjoe biden to say it because there is _ to say it because there is uncertainty, _ to say it because there is uncertainty, the - to say it because there is uncertainty, the chinesel to say it because there is - uncertainty, the chinese can't be cermin— uncertainty, the chinese can't be certain what _ uncertainty, the chinese can't be certain what the _ uncertainty, the chinese can't be certain what the americans - uncertainty, the chinese can't bel certain what the americans might uncertainty, the chinese can't be - certain what the americans might do and who— certain what the americans might do and who knows— certain what the americans might do and who knows who _ certain what the americans might do and who knows who will _ certain what the americans might do and who knows who will be - certain what the americans might do and who knows who will be the - certain what the americans might do and who knows who will be the nextl and who knows who will be the next american _ and who knows who will be the next american president, _ and who knows who will be the next american president, what _ and who knows who will be the next american president, what kind - and who knows who will be the next american president, what kind of. american president, what kind of lunatic_ american president, what kind of lunatic it — american president, what kind of lunatic it might— american president, what kind of lunatic it might be _ american president, what kind of lunatic it might be or— american president, what kind of lunatic it might be or not? - american president, what kind of lunatic it might be or not? they. lunatic it might be or not? they can't _ lunatic it might be or not? they can't predict _ lunatic it might be or not? they can't predict how— lunatic it might be or not? they can't predict how the _ lunatic it might be or not? they| can't predict how the americans would _ can't predict how the americans would behave _ can't predict how the americans would behave if— can't predict how the americans would behave if they _ can't predict how the americans would behave if they did - can't predict how the americans would behave if they did invade| would behave if they did invade taiwan, — would behave if they did invade taiwan, so— would behave if they did invade taiwan, so that _ would behave if they did invade taiwan, so that makes - would behave if they did invade taiwan, so that makes some i would behave if they did invade - taiwan, so that makes some sense, but you _ taiwan, so that makes some sense, but you have — taiwan, so that makes some sense, but you have liz— taiwan, so that makes some sense, but you have liz truss _ taiwan, so that makes some sense, but you have liz truss strutting - but you have liz truss strutting about — but you have liz truss strutting about. �* ., but you have liz truss strutting about. �* . ., , , , about. but there are many ways they can recover — about. but there are many ways they can recover of— about. but there are many ways they can recover of taiwan _ about. but there are many ways they can recover of taiwan and _ about. but there are many ways they can recover of taiwan and the - about. but there are many ways they can recover of taiwan and the least l can recover of taiwan and the least certain— can recover of taiwan and the least certain is_ can recover of taiwan and the least certain is to — can recover of taiwan and the least certain is to actually launch an invasion _ certain is to actually launch an invasion. were they to do that, you should _ invasion. were they to do that, you should look— invasion. were they to do that, you should look to japan, where the american — should look to japan, where the american bases injapan would have to be _ american bases injapan would have to be taken— american bases injapan would have to be taken out and japan is rub conscious— to be taken out and japan is rub conscious of this and is now getting over its— conscious of this and is now getting over its dislike of the idea of being — over its dislike of the idea of being a _ over its dislike of the idea of being a nuclear power. public oinion being a nuclear power. public opinion is... _ being a nuclear power. public opinion is... not _ being a nuclear power. public opinion is... not a _ being a nuclear power. public opinion is... not a member. being a nuclear power. public| opinion is... not a member of being a nuclear power. public - opinion is... not a member of nato, japan have clearly had some input on that communique.— that communique. yes, because if it were to be — that communique. yes, because if it were to be an _ that communique. yes, because if it were to be an assault _ that communique. yes, because if it were to be an assault on _ that communique. yes, because if it were to be an assault on taiwan - that communique. yes, because if it were to be an assault on taiwan by i were to be an assault on taiwan by china, _ were to be an assault on taiwan by china, japan— were to be an assault on taiwan by china, japan is— were to be an assault on taiwan by china, japan is absolutely- were to be an assault on taiwan by china, japan is absolutely in - were to be an assault on taiwan by china, japan is absolutely in the i china, japan is absolutely in the firing _ china, japan is absolutely in the firing line — china, japan is absolutely in the firing line and _ china, japan is absolutely in the firing line and when _ china, japan is absolutely in the firing line and when biden- china, japan is absolutely in the| firing line and when biden visited japan, _ firing line and when biden visited japan, the — firing line and when biden visited japan, the chinese _ firing line and when biden visited japan, the chinese and _ firing line and when biden visited japan, the chinese and the - firing line and when biden visited i japan, the chinese and the russians

did a joint— japan, the chinese and the russians did a joint flyover— japan, the chinese and the russians did a joint flyover of _ japan, the chinese and the russians did a joint flyover of the _ japan, the chinese and the russians did a joint flyover of the sea - did a joint flyover of the sea of japan, — did a joint flyover of the sea of japan, just— did a joint flyover of the sea of japan, just to _ did a joint flyover of the sea of japan. just to say, _ did a joint flyover of the sea of japan, just to say, hey, - did a joint flyover of the sea of japan, just to say, hey, guys, i did a joint flyover of the sea of . japan, just to say, hey, guys, we are here — japan, just to say, hey, guys, we are here. ., , japan, just to say, hey, guys, we are here. . , ., ., are here. that is the other fear, that is chinese- _ are here. that is the other fear, that is chinese- russian - are here. that is the other fear, l that is chinese- russian alliance, that is chinese— russian alliance, and china has been trying to thread and china has been trying to thread a line there at the un, for example, it protects russia all the time and the nato chief said this explicitly in madrid, saying, isn't this interesting, a nato alliance was set “p interesting, a nato alliance was set up as a bulwark against russia in a found its mojo again because now they are faced with a russian war, but yet now is to talking about china on the other side of the world, so that has huge ramifications if it is really what it is supposed to be. yes, whether thatis it is supposed to be. yes, whether that is just a warning, but that sense that people feel that appeasement, that people took their eye off the ball with russia, now usa is happening with china. thea;r usa is happening with china. they didn't equate _ usa is happening with china. they didn't equate them, _ usa is happening with china. they didn't equate them, the threat they said chiha _ didn't equate them, the threat they said china post _ didn't equate them, the threat they said china post was _ didn't equate them, the threat they said china post was a _ didn't equate them, the threat they said china post was a threat - didn't equate them, the threat they said china post was a threat to - didn't equate them, the threat they said china post was a threat to the| said china post was a threat to the functioning — said china post was a threat to the functioning of— said china post was a threat to the functioning of the _ said china post was a threat to the functioning of the global— said china post was a threat to the functioning of the global system, i functioning of the global system, not a _ functioning of the global system, not a military— functioning of the global system, not a military threat, _ functioning of the global system, not a military threat, so - functioning of the global system, not a military threat, so they - functioning of the global system, i not a military threat, so they were not a military threat, so they were hot equatihd _ not a military threat, so they were not equating-— not a military threat, so they were noteaauatin. . ., ,

not equating. won the last messages from the g7 was _ not equating. won the last messages from the g7 was the _ not equating. won the last messages from the g7 was the need _ not equating. won the last messages from the g7 was the need for - not equating. won the last messages from the g7 was the need for g7 - from the g7 was the need for g7 democracies and boy, do we need them now. suzanne lynch, polly toynbee and isabel hilton, thank you all very much. excuse this, they were looking for intelligent life! that is the end of dateline london this week. we are back next week at the same time. hello. signs of a slightly different weather pattern heading away for next week, but for the time being this weekend we stick with that shower scene out there across the uk and it will feel rather cool at times in the breeze and in the cloudier moments, the cloud will increase through saturday at wimbledon, but optimistic it should stay dry for the bulk of the day, a

few showers as we head into the evening. early doors showers for the cricket at edgbaston between england and india, but that will cause some interruptions, but later telling drier and brighter. at silverstone for the qualifying during the afternoon we will see the showers move in, which could make for interesting conditions, always a bit on the cool side. though showers coming courtesy of this weather system, which will be tracking eastwards in south through the country tonight and into the early hours of tomorrow morning bringing outbreaks of rain across scotland, down across northern england, wales and edging towards the south—west. clear skies behind it and temperatures in rural part down to single figures, most of us down to 10-13 single figures, most of us down to 10—13 as we start saturday morning. in the east and south—east it could stay dry as we head into the evening. a bit of rain in yorkshire taught south—east wales and, as we had for the midlands as we go for the day, brightening up with some

sunshine and showers. northern ireland with sunshine and shows throughout the day, but northern scotland with persistent outbreaks of rain and drizzle, the lightest prince here, more the further south you are, and it will feel rather call for the stage ofjuly, but nice enough when the sun is on your back. as we finish the day, outbreaks of rain in the east, showers in the north—west of scotland, most places becoming dry for a time for the night, but sunday is the pressure edges to the north of us, little troughs and areas from the northwood track west and east, but overall sunday fewer showers, mostly dry, where we do see showers they will be on the heavy side, but light winds as well and in sunny moments it will feel a touch warmer than saturday. as we go into next week, high pressure will try to build in, but only slowly and it means across the northern half of the country lots of cloud at times, rain and drizzle around hills, but for many it will be dry, not especially warm, buttery further south and east to art is going to warm up the week and we

should see some good cloud rates and a bit more on the way of sunshine. take care.

this is bbc news. i'm shaun ley. the headlines at 8pm. the senior conservative mp chris pincher is suspended from the party over allegations of sexual assault. doctors are warning of a shortage of beds due to covid—related staff sickness as cases across the uk jump by 32% in a week. the uk's supreme court will decide whether or not to ban protests amid calls for more protection for staff and women who use abortion clinics. a man accused of murdering a woman in a street attack in east london has appeared at the old bailey. china celebrates the 25th anniversary of taking hong kong back from britain — and claims the territory now has true democracy. coming up on tonight's news watch,