as we move towards at the moment. as we move towards that, we have to be on our toes to a certain degree, and if it does break, we have to start to talk about climate change. minor changes notjust about climate change. minor changes not just about britain, about climate change. minor changes notjust about britain, we are not an island in that case, we share the weather, you have to look at other records being broken. certainly, the climate change is having an effect. do we have to look at buildings as having air conditioning, because in other parts of the world it is great? other parts of the world it is ureat? ~ . , , ., , great? we are miles behind, not “ust in buildings. — great? we are miles behind, not “ust in buildings. but fl great? we are miles behind, not “ust in buildings, but in i great? we are miles behind, not “ust in buildings, but in the i great? we are miles behind, not “ust in buildings, but in the way i great? we are miles behind, not “ust in buildings, but in the way that h great? we are miles behind, notjust in buildings, but in the way that we l in buildings, but in the way that we do things. weather dictates what we do, from what we eat to how we feel. it should be a greater part of the education process, from infants go all the way through to universities,

but all that's going to be put into the equation, but if i say something openly, you probably see my book behind me, but my second book is going to be about how to survive climate change, and that is talking about wildfires, floods, extreme heat, all these things are into the equation of climate change, so it is important we start to equip ourselves and educate ourselves going forward, because the titanic has hit the iceberg, and the iceberg are sinking. we has hit the iceberg, and the iceberg are sinking-— are sinking. we have to leave it there, are sinking. we have to leave it there. but _ are sinking. we have to leave it there, but many _ are sinking. we have to leave it there, but many thanks. - now it's time for a look at the weather with sarah. hello. a warm, sunny weekend ahead and if you are hoping for a bit of rain for your gardens,

you're not going to be seeing much certainly over the next few days, temperatures building, high pressure in charge. still a fair bit of cloud lingering in the far north—west, northern ireland, north—west scotland, some rain for the northern isles where temperatures could be as low as 13 degrees, but towards the south of england 27. pretty hot for the women's final today, 27 there, hot and dry for the men's final tomorrow, could be 30 degrees on centre court. this evening and overnight fine and warm, lots of light winds around. fog through the irish sea coast tomorrow, 10 degrees to start the day tomorrow. more the same on sunday, more widespread sunshine, very high levels of uv and pollen, hot and dry, sea breezes along the coast on the south, but inland temperature is 21—29 . goodbye. hello, everybody. a very warm welcome to talking business weekly with me, aaron heslehurst.

let's go and take a look at what is on the show. taking a stand or taking a profit? from climate change to racism, gay rights and the war in ukraine, just why do companies feel they need to get involved in the big social issues of the day? a number of big american companies have spoken out on abortion and offered to help staff with travel costs, but is it worth their while or should theyjust be sticking to making money for their shareholders? from wall street banks to health care giants, this expert right there works with them all and will tell me how companies decide to speak up or when they should decide to just shut up. the online review platform yelp is one of america's most outspoken firms. its diversity chief will tell me why it feels the need to have its say on anything from trans rights to abortion. and in an era of increasing political division round the world, this man who helps some of the biggest businesses on the planet craft their messages will tell us why it is up to private companies to lead the way in shaping our society.

wherever you'rejoining me from around the world, once again, a big hello and a warm welcome to the show. you know, when you buy something in the shops or choose a service from a particular company, how much do you think about their social mission? you know, what role the company plays in society beyond making money for its shareholders? the recent us supreme court decision which outlawed abortion for millions of americans prompted some of the country's biggest companies to speak out against the decision, big names such as disney, jpmorgan and facebook owner meta have told staff they will cover employee travel expenses for abortions. on other subjects, companies are facing tricky balancing acts

such as unilever�*s recent deal to continue selling ben &jerry�*s ice cream across israel, the west bank and eastjerusalem. and sometimes, they are giving in to government demands, such as amazon restricting lgbtq search results in the united arab emirates. the company says it has to follow the law where it operates, but remains committed to diversity and inclusion. and there are plenty of other issues. where big could companies are having their say, but in doing so, it is not without risk, so why do they do it? well, a global survey by marketing giants found that businesses were seen as one of the most effective agents for positive change, scoring higher than governments and the media. climate change, yes, it is the issue in which most people want businesses to do more for the benefit of society. then economic inequality, workforce reskilling and access to health care. however, overall, people still have their doubts about the role businesses play

in the society. in fact, 52% say capitalism as it exists today does more harm than good in the world. so, i have come here, yes, europe's busiest shopping hub, it is oxford street here in london, to find out what attracts people to spend their money with particular companies. let's go and find out. race, diversity, climate change, does it have an impact on whether or not you would spend your money with a particular company? absolutely. i mean, i am a sucker to brands, so of course they are always brand—building. and they get your money. yes, of course. so i am willing to pay more if i really have the feeling a company is doing something good. if they are not socially responsible, you know, i will think twice before investing, because every penny anyone spends with the company, you are actually adding to their profitability and you're adding to their standards. i think consumers are already aware of the impacts and i think _ businesses should take more responsibility when it -

comes to climate change. i do not really look into it, to be fair. as so much goes on, it seems pretty pointless. does the company's moral and ethics values, does it actually have an impact on whether you spend your money with them or not? it does to some extent, absolutely, but i also think it is really hard at the moment to know which companies are telling the truth or not, there is a lot of brainwashing around. more transparency would be great. does a company's corporate and moral values... does that have an impact on whether or not you spend your money with them? absolutely. if they are scandalous _ or treating their employees wrong or have a wrong sense of morals iii any subject. yes. _ absolutely, that would impact how it would spend. - one of your biggest issues would be? gosh, women's rights, i suppose. for a company, when reputation matters so much, picking the right causes to publicly support, that can be difficult.

sometimes the backing of shareholders is crucial and there are a number of investors who put company to take certain positions, like norway's biggest pension fund which controls around $60 billion of assets and has stakes in companies around the world. we assets and has stakes in companies around the world.— assets and has stakes in companies around the world. we do understand the company's _ around the world. we do understand the company's main _ around the world. we do understand the company's main objective - around the world. we do understand the company's main objective is - around the world. we do understand the company's main objective is to l the company's main objective is to make sure they run their business successfully but also they can make sure it does not cause any harm on people or environmental and other fundamental breaches which we have agreed to respect as a society. and thatis agreed to respect as a society. and that is why the companies also need to take that into account, notjust the financial performance. and the other thing is that the financial performance will also be influenced if you are doing quite bad on the social issues. find if you are doing quite bad on the social issues.— if you are doing quite bad on the social issues. . . ., social issues. and in a world where social issues. and in a world where social media _ social issues. and in a world where

social media amplifies _ social issues. and in a world where social media amplifies voices - social issues. and in a world where social media amplifies voices and, | social media amplifies voices and, as we know, there is a shortage of workers, the view of the staff also needs to be taken into account. here is the boss of the world's biggest employment agency.— is the boss of the world's biggest employment agency. workers are lookini employment agency. workers are looking first _ employment agency. workers are looking first and _ employment agency. workers are looking first and foremost - employment agency. workers are looking first and foremost fur- employment agency. workers are looking first and foremost fur i i looking first and foremost furl would say a happy or pleasant work environment and that consists of a number of things, that is colleagues, work they are doing, values of the company and whether they are aligned with their own values, is a happiness in the workplace is very important. let’s workplace is very important. let's dii into workplace is very important. let's dig into why _ workplace is very important. let's dig into why people _ workplace is very important. let's dig into why people choose to speak out in a world that is increasingly polarised. is the saying goes, you cannot please all of the people all of the time, so why bother? paul is a professor at the prestigious dartford university in the us and works with companies ranging from banks such as old and sacks and i'm to japan's corporate giant. thank

you so much forjoining us. is it fair to say companies are increasingly getting involved in it taking a public stance on social issues? . , . ., issues? yes, they are indeed and i think this has — issues? yes, they are indeed and i think this has been _ issues? yes, they are indeed and i think this has been going - issues? yes, they are indeed and i think this has been going on - issues? yes, they are indeed and i think this has been going on for. issues? yes, they are indeed and i think this has been going on for at| think this has been going on for at least the last four or five years and as issue after issue after is come forward, more and more involvement from companies has happened at the same time. loath? involvement from companies has happened at the same time. why do the feel happened at the same time. why do they feel the — happened at the same time. why do they feel the need _ happened at the same time. why do they feel the need to _ happened at the same time. why do they feel the need to get _ happened at the same time. why do they feel the need to get involved i they feel the need to get involved from everything from abortion rights to forced labour and climate change? i think a lot of it is pressure from antagonists, whether it is ngos attacking companies or employees who feel strongly and passionately about issues that are coming forward, but there has also been an increase in there has also been an increase in the role of what businesses do in society, particularly in the united states, and i think people look to companies that answers that government used to respond to in the past. government used to respond to in the iast. �* .. .. .. past. and i am wondering, how did the iick past. and i am wondering, how did they pick what _ past. and i am wondering, how did they pick what to support - past. and i am wondering, how did they pick what to support or - past. and i am wondering, how did

they pick what to support or not? l they pick what to support or not? does it have to be aligned to the line of business or is that separation just not always possible? i would say what companies actually do is completely random depending upon their own experience. of what they should do is tie very much overall to the strategy of the business or the court values that they espoused and i was a way of thinking about that would be helpful, framework, which is one of the things i've developed to help companies. tell the things i've developed to help companies-_ companies. tell us a little bit about that — companies. tell us a little bit about that framework - companies. tell us a little bit about that framework you - companies. tell us a little bit - about that framework you developed. my about that framework you developed. my idea was that companies need to think ahead of time about whether they would respond to particular kinds of issues and come up with a way of thinking about it that it's not ad hoc which is the way most companies look at this. so in my view it would look at is this connected in some way to the overall strategy of the business or the core context of what they do? examples would be you are in a health care business, providing health care

services and you want to weigh in to the roe versus wade situation and give some advice. the second thing i look at is can you do something about this incident or issue. the last piece of it is how are your constituency is going to respond? will most be positive about your decision or will a significant and important constituent weigh in against you and it might cause you more harm than good?— against you and it might cause you more harm than good? touching on that a bit more, _ more harm than good? touching on that a bit more, what _ more harm than good? touching on that a bit more, what is _ more harm than good? touching on that a bit more, what is the - that a bit more, what is the business logic behind getting behind a particular cause or position? and the considerations, what considerations does a company need to make? i considerations does a company need to make? .. considerations does a company need to make? ,. . , considerations does a company need to make? ,. ., ., , to make? i think it has to be something — to make? i think it has to be something that _ to make? i think it has to be something that is _ to make? i think it has to be something that is pretty - to make? i think it has to be i something that is pretty central to make? i think it has to be - something that is pretty central to the overall organisation or is it something that the leaders in the organisation feel passionate about. i will give you an example, like tim cook weighed in in climate change in a shareholders meeting and

shareholders were saying we do not want to own the stock of the company thatis want to own the stock of the company that is so passionate about this and tim cook said if you do not support this, you can get out of our stock. that is a very bold move by a company as an example. which stakeholders _ company as an example. which stakeholders are _ company as an example. which stakeholders are considered . company as an example. which | stakeholders are considered and consulted, and how the companies balance of interest? because speaking up might not always be the most profitable option for shareholders.— most profitable option for shareholders. .. .. .. shareholders. no, it might not, and one of the things _ shareholders. no, it might not, and one of the things to _ shareholders. no, it might not, and one of the things to think _ shareholders. no, it might not, and one of the things to think about - shareholders. no, it might not, and one of the things to think about is l one of the things to think about is who are your key constituencies? let's start with shareholders and then we think about our employees and customers, the communities in which we operate, the suppliers. you have to weigh the situation against those different constituencies and which ones are the most important. for instance, if you are making a decision that might defend your biggest shareholder, you would think about that really carefully before you dived in and justjumped on that. it would probably not be a great idea to do so. the other thing we have not talked about is that

sometimes it is bestjust to say absolutely nothing. you cannot win in this situation, you have no stake in this situation, you have no stake in the game, you are not planning to do anything about it and all of your constituencies are going to be against it. it constituencies are going to be against it— against it. it does feel like us companies. — against it. it does feel like us companies, perhaps - against it. it does feel like us companies, perhaps amongst| against it. it does feel like us - companies, perhaps amongst those against it. it does feel like us _ companies, perhaps amongst those who find themselves most often under pressure to intervene, but i'm wondering how much does this phenomenon spring to other parts of the world? i phenomenon spring to other parts of the world? .. . phenomenon spring to other parts of the world? ,. . , , . the world? i think it is spreading to other parts — the world? i think it is spreading to other parts of _ the world? i think it is spreading to other parts of the _ the world? i think it is spreading to other parts of the world. - the world? i think it is spreading to other parts of the world. it. to other parts of the world. it might even be a year ago one company was protesting against the olympics in japan as a was protesting against the olympics injapan as a way for that company to weigh in on a very important issue for what was going on there, but what we see primarily as companies that are working in the united states, global companies that are getting some of this heat here in the united states, but that is likely to spread and we can see it with the war in ukraine and some of the responses in the uk to companies' participation in russia

and all of that. bp is an example of that and you're going to see more and more companies throughout the world having to deal with these issues. .. world having to deal with these issues. ., . ., issues. how much convocation easy, such as when _ issues. how much convocation easy, such as when a _ issues. how much convocation easy, such as when a company _ issues. how much convocation easy, such as when a company operates i issues. how much convocation easy, such as when a company operates inj such as when a company operates in different markets we might have competing sensibilities? —— how much of a convocation do you see. it is like playing _ of a convocation do you see. it is like playing chess _ of a convocation do you see. it is like playing chess in _ of a convocation do you see. it 3 like playing chess in four dimensions. if your company doing business in the us, russia, china and turkey and qatar, say, each of those represents challenges for the business and again you have to think ahead of time for what are the repercussions of our actions in each of those markets with each of our key constituencies and do we really want to weigh in to those waters depending on how challenging it is? i have seen companies not really think that through ahead of time and get into trouble as a result of it. if you go back to the middle of the 20th century, companies did not have to think about these things, so it

is very new for many of them, even though it has been around for 50 years, companies are still trying to think about some of these challenges.— think about some of these challenues. .. . . challenges. professor, a real ileasure challenges. professor, a real pleasure having _ challenges. professor, a real pleasure having you - challenges. professor, a real pleasure having you on - challenges. professor, a real pleasure having you on the i challenges. professor, a real- pleasure having you on the show. thank you for your time and i will talk to you soon.— talk to you soon. thank you, pleasure _ talk to you soon. thank you, pleasure to _ talk to you soon. thank you, pleasure to be _ talk to you soon. thank you, pleasure to be with - talk to you soon. thank you, pleasure to be with you. - talk to you soon. thank you, | pleasure to be with you. one talk to you soon. thank you, - pleasure to be with you. one company that has been — pleasure to be with you. one company that has been pretty _ pleasure to be with you. one company that has been pretty vocal _ pleasure to be with you. one company that has been pretty vocal on - pleasure to be with you. one company that has been pretty vocal on the - that has been pretty vocal on the abortion debate in the united states is the online business review platform yelp. the san francisco company which operates in 32 countries that focuses on connecting customers with local businesses. it was one of the past in the us to offer to pay the cost if its staff travelled out of their own state for an abortion and it has been vocal on plenty of other social issues as well. to find out why, i have been speaking to its chief diversity officer. mary, a real pleasure having you on my show, thanks for your time. having you on my show, thanks for yourtime. can having you on my show, thanks for your time. can we start with this, why have you as a company felt the need to be so vocal and ahead of the curve on the abortion debate in the us? ., ,

curve on the abortion debate in the us? . y , ., ., , us? certainly when we started to see where this was _ us? certainly when we started to see where this was headed, _ us? certainly when we started to see where this was headed, looking - us? certainly when we started to see where this was headed, looking at. where this was headed, looking at the state of texas last year when there are starting to put forth a very restrictive abortion ban then known as sph, we started to recognise that employees spread across all 50 states here in the us, we would have it enact some sort of benefit that would allow them to get the same standard of care regardless of the state they lived in and so not only did we want to protect and safeguard our own employees by creating a travel reimbursement to allow them to get abortion care in another state if the state that they lived in had banned it, we also recognise that our employees, our consumers and our customers were looking for us to be vocal on this issue and the reason that, aaron, is because the vast majority of americans agree that abortion access should be safe and legal and first 50 years in america, we have enjoyed

the political, legal and moral safeguards that allow for abortion to be a choice between a person and their doctor and after the reversal of roe versus wade several weeks ago, we have recognised the need to become even more vocal on this issue and from that we hear very frequently not only from our employees with notes of gratitude but also from people around the country and now even the world on this stance. country and now even the world on this stance-— this stance. some will say this is not necessarily _ this stance. some will say this is not necessarily profitable - this stance. some will say this is. not necessarily profitable because it will cost you money for the travel of your staff if they want an abortion, so what prompts you to do it? is it because your staff or customers want you to? in it? is it because your staff or customers want you to? in the us, health is incredibly _ customers want you to? in the us, health is incredibly expensive - health is incredibly expensive because it is privatised. it is not only for our employees, but it is also for their dependence or their spouses who are covered under our insurance plan and yes i think it is

also the reason why we speak out on this issue, because it affects so many people. sometimes people think about abortion are simply a women's issue, but i would say this is a human rights issue. when you look at the progress made over the last 50 years in civic life, women's careers, the way that they are certainly not sitting just on boards, baton many more corporate boards, baton many more corporate boards than in the past, and they can have the decision of when to have children.— can have the decision of when to have children. what other issues around the _ have children. what other issues around the world _ have children. what other issues around the world have _ have children. what other issues around the world have you - have children. what other issues around the world have you felt . around the world have you felt compelled to take a stance on and why? i compelled to take a stance on and wh ? .. ~ ~ , compelled to take a stance on and wh ? ,. . . , ., why? i think fundamentally we have taken stances _ why? i think fundamentally we have taken stances on _ why? i think fundamentally we have taken stances on issues _ why? i think fundamentally we have taken stances on issues that - why? i think fundamentally we have taken stances on issues that are - taken stances on issues that are issues of human rights and so some of the most biggest stances we have taken most recently have certainly been related to the proliferation of

anti lgbt and specifically anti—transgender youth laws that anti—tra nsgender youth laws that have anti—transgender youth laws that have been coming out in the us and similar abortion bans that you see in states. members of the lgbtq community are our friends, customers, consumers, and if we do not take a stance with the massive platform we have available to us, it is really an incredible missed opportunity on a moral level, and a social level, and also because our employers are saying we not only wants you to have values that are may be posted on a wiki somewhere or on a wall, we want you to live into those values and part of those values are we care about all people regardless of their gender identity or social orientation. but regardless of their gender identity or social orientation.— or social orientation. but there must be times _ or social orientation. but there must be times when _ or social orientation. but there must be times when you - or social orientation. but there j must be times when you speak or social orientation. but there - must be times when you speak out about an issue in one country, perhaps trans writes in the united

states which does not go down similar another country, let's say a less liberal country, how do you balance that? it less liberal country, how do you balance that?— balance that? it is always a balance. — balance that? it is always a balance, whether - balance that? it is always a balance, whether you - balance that? it is always a balance, whether you are l balance that? it is always a - balance, whether you are looking at anti lgbtq laws in the us or gun violence prevention in the us, which again is something our ceo has been very vocal about, the fundamental thing we are faced with is really how would you protect human rights in all the places our employees are living and the vast majority are in north america and also in the uk and germany, and so while these topics may not be presenting themselves in quite the same way in different countries, certainly our employee population overall is happy and heartened by the fact we are speaking out on these issues, as difficult as they may be in some cases. �* . .. ~' difficult as they may be in some cases. �*. . ,. ., difficult as they may be in some cases. �*. . _ ., cases. let's talk about the cynics and the critics. _ cases. let's talk about the cynics and the critics. many _ cases. let's talk about the cynics and the critics. many of- cases. let's talk about the cynics and the critics. many of them - cases. let's talk about the cynics| and the critics. many of them will argue that companies like

yourselves, you jump on board with these social issues because it is just good for business, whether you believe in them or not. is that fair or how do you show that that is not the case? i or how do you show that that is not the case? .. or how do you show that that is not the case? ., . . , or how do you show that that is not the case? ., . . i- , the case? i would certainly say this is not a bandwagon _ the case? i would certainly say this is not a bandwagon situation - the case? i would certainly say this is not a bandwagon situation and l the case? i would certainly say this is not a bandwagon situation and itj is not a bandwagon situation and it is not a bandwagon situation and it is certainly not lip service. in order to be as vocal as we have been about this issue, frankly many corporate actors are silent, and potentially attempting to remain neutral on a decision that frankly i think neutrality is not going to be looked on favourably, particularly from a historic looking lens. find from a historic looking lens. and ou from a historic looking lens. and you would _ from a historic looking lens. and you would believe that this kind of corporate activism, it is here and it is going to stay, and it is going to grow? i it is going to stay, and it is going to crow? , .. it is going to stay, and it is going to crow? , ., .. it is going to stay, and it is going to crow? , .. .. ~' to grow? i definitely do not think cor-orate to grow? i definitely do not think corporate activism _ to grow? i definitely do not think corporate activism is _ to grow? i definitely do not think corporate activism is going - to grow? i definitely do not think| corporate activism is going away, but i certainly think that in a country like the united states, where the government does not offer things like the rest of the wealthy world is like paid parental leave, paid sick leave, substantially

subsidised childcare, then it is a comment on employers to answer. wonderful to have you on my show, thanks forjoining me, i will talk to you soon. thanks forjoining me, i will talk to you soon-— thanks forjoining me, i will talk- to you soon._ from to you soon. thank you, aaron. from racism to gender _ to you soon. thank you, aaron. from racism to gender equality, _ to you soon. thank you, aaron. from racism to gender equality, climate i racism to gender equality, climate change, in forced labour, there are so many worthwhile issues out there that as a company it is not always easy to work out which of the right or most effective causes to back. when i'm 20 and 20 of the world was �*s biggest companies, from apple to coca—cola and hsbc, to disney, they are all members of an organisation called chief executives for corporate purpose. that help them work out what they speak out on and how they should do so and i have been speaking to its big boss.

daryl, a real pleasure having you on my show. can restart with this, by just explaining in a bit more detail how you work with companies and what you help them to achieve? lode how you work with companies and what you help them to achieve?— you help them to achieve? we found with other leading _ you help them to achieve? we found with other leading ceos _ you help them to achieve? we found with other leading ceos and - you help them to achieve? we found with other leading ceos and we - with other leading ceos and we help them learn about things they did not learn about in business school but are increasingly important in today's world, things like engagement with your community, sustainable business, climate issues, working on diversity, equity, inclusion, engaging your employees and telling your story. you mentioned paul newman was amongst others who set up the organisation, why did they feel there was a need for something like this? i there was a need for something like this? .. there was a need for something like this? ~' .. there was a need for something like this? ~' ., . ,. ., . this? i think we go back to the late 90s, last century, _

this? i think we go back to the late 90s, last century, this _ this? i think we go back to the late 90s, last century, this was - this? i think we go back to the late 90s, last century, this was the - this? i think we go back to the late 90s, last century, this was the day of greed is good, business has only one responsibility and that was to increase profit and i think while thatis increase profit and i think while that is an important aspect of what companies are here to do, companies realise that to increase profit every time, they need to be good citizens of the world and this is the time in the tech bubble and other areas where it has really gained tremendous momentum over the last quarter of a century and today, 69 of the world's largest 100 economic units are corporations, the others are countries, so these are big companies. it really can be a positive force for the world and companies more and more understanding to drive sustainable long—term success they need to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. part of the solution and not part of the problem-— part of the solution and not part of the iroblem. ~ . . ., .. , , the problem. according to the survey mentioned at — the problem. according to the survey mentioned at the _ the problem. according to the survey mentioned at the start _ the problem. according to the survey mentioned at the start my _ the problem. according to the survey mentioned at the start my show, - the problem. according to the survey mentioned at the start my show, onl the problem. according to the survey| mentioned at the start my show, on a global the public regard business is the most effective proponent of positive change, why do you think that is? i positive change, why do you think

that is? .. .. positive change, why do you think that is? ,. . , ., , positive change, why do you think that is? ,. . , .,, , that is? i think what people see around the _ that is? i think what people see around the globe _ that is? i think what people see around the globe is _ that is? i think what people see around the globe is that - that is? i think what people see - around the globe is that businesses are confident and get stuff done, they are adaptable, they can change and adjust as time moves on and i think they are increasingly ethical. businesses are not perfect, let's remember that, businesses are not perfect, let's rememberthat, but businesses are not perfect, let's remember that, but relative to other major institutions like government and media even, except for the bbc of course, it is just being a trusted effort and frankly if i do not like with the company is doing, i do not have to wait for six years for another election, i do not have to wait for six years foranother election, i i do not have to wait for six years for another election, i can change my purchase behaviour right now. find my purchase behaviour right now. and we know you have been a chief executive officer yourself, running crispy cream doughnuts, so want to know, what are the biggest challenges ceos face when deciding to speak out on an issue while still running their company both effectively and profitably? i remember one time, oreos was our great global brand and we were talking about some of the key public

issues, one of our directors said just shut up and make the oreos. that is not the opportunities any more, companies need to think through those issues that are relevant to them, how they will respond and maybe even take action before these become major issues. i am wondering, when companies are struggling with basics such as surging inflation, this cost of living crisis all around the world, they are worried aboutjust not having enough staff, do you think we could see less involvement of companies in certain social issues? yes, i think it will adjust based on the times. again, i get back a decade ago when i was a ceo, very few ceos ever spoke out. as issues hit, the murder of george floyd, socialjustice issues, climate issues etc, we saw a surge in how companies were speaking out. today we really counselled companies. we take an example on a global basis of the difference of how companies responded to apartheid in south africa which took literally decades

the companies to reach mass relative to ukraine. we are in a matter of days, companies who had businesses in russia and ukraine had already stepped up in this issue. the speed at which that happened really accelerated over the last decade. let me end on this, because when society only seems to be becoming more and more polarised... to take a leadership role on some of these issues? . .. leadership role on some of these issues? . ,. ., , issues? yes, i think it does. the role is to — issues? yes, i think it does. the role is to really _ issues? yes, i think it does. the role is to really step _ issues? yes, i think it does. the role is to really step up. - issues? yes, i think it does. the role is to really step up. but - issues? yes, i think it does. the role is to really step up. but i i role is to really step up. but i think business has an opportunity, if not to find common ground, but to find a higher ground that society can move towards.— find a higher ground that society can move towards. darryl, the big boss of jeep _ can move towards. darryl, the big boss of jeep is _ can move towards. darryl, the big boss of jeep is acting _ can move towards. darryl, the big boss of jeep is acting for - can move towards. darryl, the big| boss of jeep is acting for corporate boss ofjeep is acting for corporate purpose, thanks for your time, really appreciate it. you can keep

up really appreciate it. you can keep up with the latest business online or on the app. or contact me on twitter. thanks watching, goodbye.

this is bbc news. i'm chris rogers and these are the latest headlines: the defence secretary ben wallace rules himself out of the race to become the next conservative party leader and prime minister. meanwhile senior tory tom tugendhat explains why he's running. chanting protesters in sri lanka storm the president's official residence over the handling of the country's worst economic crisis in decades. the country's prime minister says he's willing to stand down. police injapan admit there were flaws in the security for the former prime minister, shinzo abe, who was shot dead on friday. elon musk is threatened with legal action after pulling out of a £36.5