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tv   Dateline London  BBC News  July 11, 2022 3:30am-4:01am BST

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this is bbc news. the headlines: sri lankans continue to pour into the presidential palace demanding gotobaya rajapaksa resigns as he has promised. senior figures there say the president fled the island after the palace was overran but they expect him to return on wednesday. much of europe's experiencing a major heatwave. in spain, temperatures have hit 43 degrees celsius. the heat in neighbouring portugal has sparked wildfires while temperatures are expected to nudge a0 degrees in france. here in the uk, the foreign secretary, liz truss, has become the latest senior party member to join the contest to succeed borisjohnson as conservative leader and prime minister.
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10 other mps from the party have so far announced their intentions to run. now on bbc news, dateline london with shaun ley. hello and welcome to the programme which brings together leading uk columnists with foreign correspondents who write, blog and broadcast from the dateline: london. britain's conservatives like to think of themselves as belonging to the natural party of government. this week, it's looked more like the natural party of farce. two cabinet ministers announced publicly that they'd had enough of borisjohnson.
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mrjohnson had not had enough of himself and for 48 hours, he dug in his heels, refusing to resign as prime minister, even as, one after another, members of his government resigned. in all, five cabinet level and 23junior ministers quit because he wouldn't, along with a couple of dozen parliamentary aides. on wednesday evening, the prime minister sacked one of his oldest allies who'd told him to go. another, who'd accepted promotion from him just the night before, then deserted his cause too. mrjohnson insisted the voters had given him a mandate to govern and he would do just that. some feared he was considering a fresh appeal to the nation by calling a general election. a prime minister who'd dissolved parliament once when he couldn't get his way might do so again. in fact, come thursday lunchtime, borisjohnson had decided he had to go. he announced his resignation — blaming not himself, but what he called "the herd instinct" of his party. when time is up for tory
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leaders, they are visited by "the men in grey suits", political grandees. the verdict in the dateline studio is delivered by men and women with grey hairs — in other words, with decades of experience between them of writing and broadcasting about the uk. janet daley�*s weekly column appears in the sunday telegraph, a source of succour to british conservatives. though he hails from the country which hosts the european union, the belgian economist marc roche — who writes for le point in france — shared borisjohnson�*s enthusiasm for brexit. and thomas kielinger has been explaining the british to his fellow germans for a quarter of a century, although he first lived in this country back in the 1960s. a warm welcome to all of you. you have seen so many british prime ministers come in a blaze of optimism and glory or force majeure because they've succeeded somebody else who has gone, and then you've seen them end, sadly, as i think it was suggested, always
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in tears and always the end of a career in failure. janet daley, was this one written in the stars from long ago? or was it genuinely a surprise in the end, how... it wasn't a surprise to anybody — except for boris johnson, apparently. it was remarkable for one thing, in that it was not to do with policy, it was to do with personality. and the removal of him was being demanded, not because he had made some horrendous mistake in the way he had handled government or dealt with legislation, but because he was considered to be dishonourable, and that puts this in a very different category. and the tragedy is, i suppose, if you would call it — comic tragedy — is that even at the end, as you said, he referred to this herd mentality that pushed him out, obviously, he felt unjustly, even at the end, he did not have enough self—knowledge to understand that it was his character. in fact, when he was abroad and interviewed about this, he said, "if you're expecting me to reconstruct my
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personality or my character, that's not going to happen." and that's absolutely right, that's not going to happen. and he was caught out in a series of what have to be assumed to be deliberate lies and obfuscations. he refused, even to the end, after three or four interviewers asked him whether he had made this extraordinary remark about this predatory man, who was making sexual advances... to other men, yep. to other men. he had... this was a man who was in the government, and he was deputy chief whip, so he was sort of in charge of discipline. he was deputy chief whip at that time. he was... boris made a joke, which is a characteristic borisjoke. those of us... i have known him for 20 years, this was an absolutely characteristic boris joke, when he said, "he's pincher by name" — because that is his name — "and pincher by nature." he was asked in three separate interviews that i saw whether it was true that he'd said that, and he evaded those questions all those times, and that is not acceptable. that...
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it was his character and integrity that were in question, not his governing policies, and he obviously thought that was deeply unjust. he obviously thought he got the policy right on covid, on the vaccination programme, on the war, so why wasn't that enough? and he did not see that it was simply unacceptable to have a man who could tell lies of that kind or evade the truth in that way as prime minister. and yet, marc roche, there still seemed to be a significant number — though clearly now a minority in the parliamentary conservative party — who still wanted him to stay as prime minister, still in a sense thought the voters had priced in that element of his character, but would still be willing to see him continue because of what they saw as his kind of qualities outweighing his flaws. despite... we knew he was a serial liar. the partners in europe
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have suffered that, when he was saying one thing one day in private, and then another thing in public, so we knew that, but they thought, i suppose, that because he had such an extraordinary victory in the polls and he had managed to take all of these labour constituencies for the first time, that he will do that again, that he had the magic touch with the public, but i'm very happy he went because, on the whole, it is a marvellous lesson of democracy. you cannot lie. in other countries on the continent, politicians often lie and stay and continue. here, he had to go, so i think it shows that the british political system is still based on this rigorous, slightly protestant, slightly...
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where your private life and your public life have to stick together, which is a good thing. and yet, thomas, his party tolerated this behaviour or misbehaviour on more than one occasion, and some might say it is not a great reflection on the conservative party or conservative parliamentary party, that many of them were willing to go into tv studios, parroting the line he had given him and, clearly, on more than one occasion, not really believing it themselves or not being convincing in delivering it. is there a danger for the conservatives that they might think, "we have cauterized the wound. "he's gone." or he will have gone after the election of his successor. but the voters might not be quite as tolerant of that and quite as willing to forgive past sins? the conservatives fell victim to the mantra, |
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"there is no alternative to borisjohnson. - "he is the natural winner, l he will get us through every problem, every thick and thin, so let's forgive some of these | delinquencies, as it were," but it was wrong right - from the start. because one issue that i helped him come out big was brexit, and dominic- cummings said the other day... his former adviser. former chief adviser, i said, "why we got him into downing street— was because we had one issue at the time, not because we thought he would be such i a political great beast." that is a rather, how shall i say, a tragic explanationj of how this party was a one—trick party at l the beginning, brexit overall, forgetting that one _ of the reasons he won so big had to do with corbyn, - the opponent, who was pretty unelectable, so it was - a massive victory, _ but there was just one issue. he was untested and the - forbearance that they showed
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him was beginning to . wane more and more... does that worry you, janet, that he may damage his party, even if he is no longer its leader? he was never properly a team player. he was never really the sort of person who normally gets elected as party leader. i would not take dominic cummings' words absolutely to heart. i know. dominic cummings now loathes him and is out to get him and is delighted at his fall, so i would not take that too seriously. you have to remember, too, that boris was a fantastically popular and successful mayor in the city of london, in a city which is normally solidly labour. that was a perfectjob for him because the mayor of london does not have that much power and cannot pass much legislation, so that was fine, and that kind of popularity, that slightly buffoonish quality that was endearing in a mayor was not so great in a prime minister.
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even without all the serious lying and misleading, that wasn't going to work. he was an actor on . the stage, of course. yeah. and this is a theatre nation. they like theatrical performances. - and we have had theatrical prime ministers before who have still managed to do a good job. yes. also, they like eccentricity. much longer will they tolerate it than people in germany- would, with such a colourful character like johnson. - and that's why i thought it was particularly funnyl that he complained about the eccentric colleagues i who stopped him in this tracks in the middle - of successful management... but the sad thing about him is that, as mayor of london, he was cosmopolitan, he was open to the outside world. it became the seventh city in the world, and then he becomes prime minister and he represents a sort of nationalistic view of england, little england. you know, in europe,
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they talk, "that is not the boris we know." i think there is a misunderstanding there. i mean, i'm very cosmopolitan — i come from an immigrant family, my father did not speak english before he went to school, and i have no problem at all with cosmopolitan cities and ethnic diversity, but i was for brexit and i was for brexit because i think you should elect the people who make you... the result of brexit is about immigration. but let's talk about, before we re—legislate brexit, re—fight that battle, the interesting thing is the european reaction to this, in particular, and then we can talk a bit more about the wider world, but in paris, the elysee palace made not much secret of the fact that it is glad he was gone. notwithstanding... i was at the g7 a couple of weeks ago, and they had those...
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big bonhomie, arm around the shoulders, stuff between macron and boris, cuddling up to each other and all the rest of it in support of ukraine and against putin, but in the end, there was very poor relationships, particularly with some european leaders. oh, it was. it was the worst... why does that matter for the future of the uk? it is essential the uk has a good partnership, not an antagonistic partnership, with the eu — and especially with france on defence and security, because those are the two main armies on the continent, and they have atomic bomb and a permanent seat on the security council, so it is essential, and boris was antagonistic to a point where there was a crisis not seen since de gaulle in the '60s, when he refused — quite rightly, i think — to have the british in the european union. laughter. the french could not wait to get rid of him. this being said, on the long term, they do not expect too much from the successor
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because the problems we have, because of brexit, are bigger than one person. is there a worry for you, janet...? you've been consistently and passionately supportive of brexit, and you make the point you did it on the very straightforward grounds of sovereignty, a very clear argument. lots of people voted for it for all kinds of different things and you could argue people voted for it for what they were particularly annoyed about, and that was the skill of the campaign, in the sense that it could bring in all these different concerns, grumpiness and disaffection with politics, all channelled into brexit. are you worried, though, that what gave him that success might undermine the achievements of brexit? in other words, that his great success was to convince people of things that did not turn out to be true, like if we stay in the european union, turkey willjoin and then we won't be able to stop ruminants coming there is all this money
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we painted on the side of a bus that will go to the nhs as soon as we leave the eu, etc, and actually the stuff that was genuine and has been achieved by brexit will be undermined by the sense that we were misled? yes. that is quite a complicated argument. a complicated way of putting it! laughter. the thing is, you have to remember the problems we are having now and a lot of the adamant remain and rejoin camp want to blame on brexit, these are in fact universal problems. everybody is suffering from hyperinflation, everybody is facing economic decline and lack of growth, everybody�*s encountering problems that follow on a pandemic in which everybody�*s economy was put into an induced coma for two years. i mean, in the united states, inflation is wildly out of control and they have a much more serious unemployment problem than we have, so it would be a mistake to think that people will start looking at the eu and think, "maybe we should've stayed in."
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no, that wasn't my point — whether they will feel they were delivered brexit on a false premise. i think the people who believed that have believed it all along. right. there were people who were very angry about the slogans on the side of the bus. you don't think any of the brexiteers, people who voted for brexit, will feel, "hang on — "we voted for this because we trusted you, "boris, and now we've decided you've misled us"? they have decided they don't trust him, and i do not actually think that is going to impact much on their feelings about brexit. got you. but 18% of the british public think brexit has delivered. 18%, while 52% voted for it. and it has not delivered economically. nobody is having a good time economically. laughter. there's going to... ..according to the g7, the worst growth and the worst inflation. but... partly because we came out of the pandemic and lockdowns sooner. we had our little rise before and now, it is dropping again.
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europe is coming out of lockdown more slowly, came out later, so their catastrophe is delayed. . . is delayed, right. in the next year — i am willing to put money on this, if i was a betting person — the euro is going to have a crisis. and it is not — we may have a crisis as well, but ours is not going to be worse than europe. janet, you forget — - talking of brexit, we don't want to go into the ins. and outs of the decision itself, but europe has been. looking at britain as a country so deeply divided by a mistake, so europeans think, that they l inflicted upon themselves. i mean, look at british history — that all foreign dangers - that were a peril for britain saw the society unite - behind their leaders- and now, you have an issue like brexit, which is- self—inflicted, which we introduced into the political debate, and you are unable to unite the country behind this unifying idea... - it was not introduced against the will of the people. you can't introduce a national controversy... 52% is not the people.
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it's enough to win an election. to win an election, but... you can win a general election with less than that! i'll say! i mean, any political leader who got 50% of a general election vote would think they have died and gone to heaven. that's for a personal decision in an— that's for a personal decision in an election. _ but for an issue to master the future of the british . political culture... what would you have wanted, 60%? what would you demand? no, no, it is not what i demand _ no, no, it is not what i demand. it— no, no, it is not what i demand. it is- no, no, it is not what i demand. it is what - no, no, it is not what i demand. it is what i. no, no, it is not what i. demand. it is what i see no, no, it is not what i- demand. it is what i see before me _ it's in the past. the country is still divided and brexit| is not negotiated to the end. we still have the northern ireland protocol. - yeah. that is an interesting question — to get back to the domestic scene, the consequences of boris johnson going. we don't know how soon he'll actually leave office but is going in the next couple of months, probably. what are the consequences for his successor, not so much of the way he went, but more the fact they are following
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borisjohnson, do you think, janet, in terms of within... whoever the next leader is. they are coming after, i see. my personal preference would be for somebody who would be such the antithesis of borisjohnson... so, boring? laughs. no, no — ben wallace, who would be... the real criticism of boris was he was not serious. so, disciplined? he was under serious. —— he was unserious. and ben wallace is profoundly serious. he's the defence secretary. he's the defence secretary who has been conducting a brilliant campaign over in ukraine, and he would be so different and such a profound contrast that i think that the memory of boris would vanish quite quickly. what you need is, in fact, the same thing that happened when thatcher went and was replaced byjohn major, who made the vote and ratified the maastricht treaty. and that is what you want, and i think ben wallace might— be the sort of person... to bring the arguments with europe to an end? yeah.
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john major... no—one is talking about finalising brexit, but to finish the deal. the country is not arguing about brexit any more! the country is not. we are, and people like us are still arguing about it, but it's really gone, it is done, it's past. but it's the elephant in the room. - northern ireland has yet to seej peace, have yet to see a return to the regional— government and so forth. you cannotjust stuff| that under the table. but i am sorry to say this, but northern ireland is not hugely at the top of priorities for most people in this country. i'm sure, but it is part of the united — i'm sure, but it is part of the united kingdom _ i'm sure, but it is part of the united kingdom still. - and it has been a problem for various tragic reasons for a very long time. agreed. what about the identity of the conservative party? is the public clear about what the conservative party stands for? no, no. after 3.5 years of boris johnson? that is one of the more serious problems. quite apart from boris johnson's personality problems, that has been a very serious
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problem — and partly, again, because of these bizarre circumstances, the covid pandemic, the lockdown, putting the economy into a coma. the question — the rishi sunak argument, which is you must not get into so much debt that you can never pay it off and therefore, you must not cut taxes, is against the alternative argument, espoused by many people... not least the new chancellor of the exchequer, nadhim zahawi. yeah, yeah, which is that you should cut taxes because there's a cost of living crisis, that people are dying of cold because the cost of energy, that has to be addressed, and if you address that, there is an argument that if you reduce the levels of taxation, you get more revenue. you get the laffer curve argument. there is a real argument going on about fiscal policy. that is my question of, "where does the conservative party- "stand?", is probably not to nei answered, cannot be answered.
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they are fighting the - consequences of a worldwide crisis. yes. in trade and... but at the same time, the official government has said that the budget deficit is unsustainable because it is over 100% of gdp at the moment, and so, the next prime minister should in fact diminish public public spending and increase tax, but who, but which prime minister will do that? that's rishi sunak. yeah. that is very difficult, but it is not unique. this is happening in a great many western democracies, having the same arguments because the same circumstances apply. and with the war in ukraine and the cost of actual food going up, the imports of wheat and so on, and cost of energy going up because of what russia is doing, we are all faced with this problem. try and find a coherent philosophy in the facel of all those problems you rightly outline. . it's very hard. we are in a fighting mode - at the moment, trying to cope with so many absolutely
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overwhelming issues, . that parties — i the old parties — germany is the same. the support for the usual catch—all parties... - now down to 22%. they have been smashed. macron has been paralysed. for five years, france is completely paralysed. they are worse off politically than we are! before we are in a worse political predicament than we are, britain is. i began this programme with a disrespectful remark about the colour of your hair! which i think is beautiful, all of you... and you have more hair than me, even now! laughter. but on a serious note, janet daley, you came here from the united states when harold wilson was prime minister. and me, the young one. marc, you came when harold mcmillan was prime minister. you came when margaret thatcher was in her prime. how will borisjohnson rate
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in the panoply of time? he might have thought . he was another benjamin disraeli — a sort of| public intellectual, writer and so forth, and politician to boot, - who has to be taken seriously. disraeli was originally was regarded as a joke. he was, and people then grew to like and respect his talents. - therefore, he falls out i of the template of british politicians to be measured. he was and he continues to remain an outsider, . an eccentric, an intellectual, of great powers and ability, i and i think people will try not to rate him as a politician- but just as a colourful. person who enriched... and just happened to become prime minister? ..enriched the political debate j while he was there and helped us understand _ it's not quite that easy to be a politician when you lack certain other talents. -
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now, he had other talents which were so huge... - great communicator. yeah! but he forgot about the entire political rule book. _ janet? i think that he will be rehabilitated as a personality, as thomas says, but he must get out of the way quickly. i wish he had gone on the day he made that statement. it is unacceptable, as i said, for someone whose party has decided he was dishonourable... and so overwhelmingly... yes. ex—sun acceptable for him to carry on and he should have allowed dominic raad, who would have been the caretaker, to take over. the worst prime minister ever, ithink, because he is a serial liar. and for me, british politics has always been that people are moral. of course, blair did lie also with iraq, and he is having that cross to bear. anthony eden lied. well, he didn't stay long after. but in the case ofjohnson, he should have never been prime
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minister. he did not have any of the qualities of seriousness, partnership... gravitas. ..gravitas that you need in a prime minister or french president, and unfortunately, there is a different mould. marc roche, janet daley, thomas kielinger, thank you very much. one name we have not mentioned, you may want to go back and look in the history books, david lloyd george. a great and successful wartime prime minister who split his party and continued to undermine it by leading his own faction. borisjohnson might want to reflect on that. that is it for dateline london this week. we are back same time next week. goodbye.
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hello. sunday, scotland and northern ireland saw their highest temperatures of the year so far. monday could well be the turn of wales and england, so feeling just as hot out there, if not hotter. and a lot of sunshine, yes, though increasing high cloud will turn things hazier out there. and if you're looking for rain, this is the next five days. while some will push in towards north—western areas — not very much, mind you — but where temperatures are at their highest for the next couple of days at least, well, it will stay mainly dry, just exacerbating the very dry conditions out there with high pressure close by. although some changes from low pressure, slowly, as we go through the next few days. a lot of sunshine as monday begins, temperatures rocketing. misty, low cloud just pulling away from some irish sea coasts. an increase in high cloud from the north, again, turning things hazier out there and temperatures widely into the upper 20s from eastern scotland through wales. a large swathe of england 30 or above, maybe 33 in south east england. strong sunshine, high, very high uv levels.
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cooler sea breezes around the coast. going into monday night, look at the change for northern ireland and scotland from that low pressure system i showed you — we see some outbreaks of rain moving in. ahead of all of that, though, it will be a much warmer night going into tuesday, and that does make it tougherfor sleeping. the house really doesn't want to cool down after it's been so hot during the day. well, slowly, we take some outbreaks of rain away from scotland and northern ireland on tuesday, where it'll be cooler, fresher, brightening up. the chance of a shower. breezier, too. thicker cloud with maybe the odd splash of rain working into parts of wales and england, bringing temperatures down a little — though still for east anglia and the south—east into the low 30s, with for london, for example, a heatwave continuing to be throughout the week and into next weekend, whereas elsewhere, it will cool off a touch. wednesday brings temperatures much closer to average, particularly across northern areas of the uk. some patches of cloud. the chance of a few showers around. for many, though, it'll be staying dry. still into the upper 20s in south east england. for most locations, though, well shy of that at this stage — and, thankfully, if you're not a fan of the heat. looking further ahead, whilst scotland and northern ireland are no great change, wales and england heat up again
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— look at that temperature potentially for london into next weekend. i just want to show you the uk high temperature record. there is a concern that this will come under threat next weekend — not a guarantee, but there's a potential for some extreme heat to build in across southern areas next weekend — and that's certainly something we are watching.
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welcome to bbc news — i'm david eades. our top stories: senior figures in sri lanka say the president's fled the island, but is expected to resign on wednesday. his palace is now a protest site as crowds continue to pour inside. our correspondent is there. how does it feel to swim in the president's personal pool? after months of frustration this feels like re— relief. crowds surging to get inside this palace. and they get to see what life is like for the political class. to enjoy or endure? a heatwave hits western europe. parts of spain reach 43 degrees. eleven and counting. here in the uk, candidates are lining up in their bid
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to take over from borisjohnson as leader of the conservative

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