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tv   Dateline London  BBC News  July 17, 2022 11:30am-12:01pm BST

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the low ”505. values potentially into the low 305. first values potentially into the low 30s. first thing monday morning, wall—to—wall sunshine, away from the far north of scotland. these are the areas where we have that extreme red heat warning. and as temperatures peaked through the middle of the afternoon, widely into the mid to high 30s, potentially as high as 41 celsius. hello, this is bbc news. the headlines: thousands of firefighters continue to battle wildfires across europe — many people have died from the intense heat. in england and parts of wales, an amber warning for extreme heat has begun. a cargo plane has crashed in northern greece — killing all eight people on board. the five remaining candidates for british prime minister will battle it out in their second
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tv debate later. i think what people want is an end to the toxic politics that we have seen over the last few months, they want to someone that can restore trust. your mission — should you choose to accept it — is to find out if the hollywood superstar, tom cruise is filming in the british lake district. this week, two nations with caretaker leaders,
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in israel, a coalition has collapsed. joe biden has been in a middle east seeking more saudi oil. they and the israelis want the united states to pledge action against iran. here in the uk, the famous and not—so—famous five are vying to succeed borisjohnson as leader of the conservative party and prime minister. but in a context of tax cuts, is that the answer to what even ministers describe as a cost of living crisis? in the studio to discuss all of that, an american journalist and senior writer at bloomberg business week, based in london since the late 1970s, he writes on arab affairs. ian burrow is a columnist with the mail newspapers, he has reported from all around the middle east during his time, and was a speech writer
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on david cameron's successful general election campaign in 2010. welcome to you all. let's begin in the middle east. stephanie, joe biden is engaged in this middle east trip, started in israel, met the palestinian leader, then on to saudi arabia to meet muhammad bin salman, the controversial crown prince. what does he want from this visit? what is he seeking from saudi arabia, particularly? i think this is a trip that you could see he did not really want to make. it is controversial, particularly in the democratic party, because of mohammed bin salman�*s record on human rights, because of it is being seen as a backtracking on his promises on climate change. biden has billed this as primarily about regional security, about, you know, fostering greater ties between israel and arab countries under the abraham accords,
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pushing that further. you know, building, possibly extending the yemen ceasefire. but ultimately, it is about getting more oilfrom saudi arabia. that is probably the most challenging part of the trip. from what we understand, he is unlikely to leave with any concrete commitments on that front. it remains to be seen. but some people are viewing this as a sort of reward for opec committing to increased production injune. but in reality, i think that the scope for both saudi arabia and the emirates to increase production is pretty limited. i think between them they have the capacity to increase production by something like 3 million barrels a day at best. it sounds a lot, but it is not really. it is like 3% of global output. it is seen as more or less
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the amount that russia might produce and be taken out by sanctions by the end of the year, but it is not going to move the dial much in terms of prices at the pump, so to speak. it raises a question in my mind, what happened to energy independence, which was something donald trump boasted about when he was in the white house? well, i think i was more of a trump slogan, a bit of bravado. the us of course is a major world producer of oil and energy, but it is not like the us did not import energy products. russia, for instance, accounts for, like, before the war, accounted for about 8% of us oil imports. the us is tightly integrated with world oil markets. i think that was a bit of a misnomer. it is being used by republicans to attack biden on the right. you know, you really needs to do something ahead of the midterms to try to show that he is responding
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to these rising energy prices. four months or so away. the relationship between, in particular, mohammed bin salman and trump is very close, not least because of the personal relationship between him and the president's son—in—law. we do not think the saudis can offer much, are they pleased about this visit? or do they remain sceptics about the biden presidency? you know, biden was very tough with the saudis. he said he will isolate mohammed bin salman, the crown prince. because of the murder of the journalist jamal khashoggi. also, he avoided most of middle eastern leaders. even egyptian rulers and other parts of the middle east.
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i believe now he is there saying i'm sorry. he wants to achieve four things — first to salvage the relationship between the united states, strategic relationship between the united states and saudi arabia, which lasted for 80 years and recently it has been deteriorating completely. the second thing is to put pressure on saudi and united arab emirates and other oil producing countries to increase their production, hoping that they could bring the prices of oil down. but you said it is limited, a marginal impact. the third thing is how to integrate israel in the middle east to make some sort of integration and to be an integral part of the middle east by normalisation of relationships. the fourth thing is how to confront iran. iran is considered a threat to the middle east and america. he actually declared when he visited
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israel that they will prevent iran from producing weapons. producing nuclear weapons. so he is saying that he wants to establish some sort of arab nato in order to confront iran. that is intriguing. just before we move on directly to iran, which is clearly where it puts them all. when he was in israel, he said he was pleased to be injerusalem, in the capital of israel, which of course really was a concession made by donald trump when he was president. it looks like the biden presidency will stay injerusalem. what other ways do you think donald trump has rewritten the rules of engagement for?
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it is very interesting that you had biden,| who was critical of trump's policy, but he has done very— little on the two states. there is very little. he did very little in. terms of offering hope towards the palestinians. a very brief meeting - with the palestinian leader, a little bit of aid, - not much more than that. then of course he is having. to turn his whole policy upside down on saudi arabia. in many ways, what you are seeing i think is the weakness _ of the biden, who is doing pretty much what trump was doing - in terms of policy, - with one or two exceptions. at the same time, turning around on all the things i he was saying earlier. if i was watching outside, - if i was perhaps president zelensky looking at this, i would be quite nervous. - america has betrayed afghanistan, which has done the same - to other parts, like iraq - and the middle east, and is now turning turtle on saudi arabia.
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it is not great when you have got the world's most important- democratic power whose word seems so subject to erosion, _ should we say. stephanie? i think part of the trip is about countering russian and chinese influence in the region. i think that is very much on the agenda. you know, in dubai, for instance, you see all these russians moving in to avoid sanctions. that is sort of happening behind the scenes. i'm sure there will be words said about that. so i think it is hard to determine whether or not this will be determined a success orjust a complete waste of time in the end. the fact that it has taken so long to happen, that he has been in office for a year and a half and he has not made any trip to the middle east, and he has made several trips to europe, i think it is long overdue, kind of as an attempt to re—engage.
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i agree that the threat from iran hangs over this whole trip stop i think there is a sign of how iran is a greater threat and that the palestinian issue has receded. they are willing to put the coalition against iran ahead of any palestinian concerns. there is a race now between the americans and russians in the region. lavrov, the foreign minister of russia, was there. and putin, vladimir putin is going to visit tehran next week. so i believe he will strike some sort of alliance and access with the iranians, maybe supplying them with $400, which is their missiles. maybe he will learn from the iranians how to confront the sanctions, the american sanctions against iran. so i believe middle eastern people have lost trust in the americans, to be honest. biden, when he came,
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he was championing human rights, you know, he was against the death of the saudi journalist, and he is saying that he will not shake hands with mohammed bin salman. now he is turning everything around and he is trying to save himself, his popularity in the united states, and to beg them to help them with oil and gas. that is the name of the game now. it raises the question that in a sense it is a bit like coming back to the future. we were talking about how europe is dividing between the nato side, the russian side, just as it is between the west and the soviets. now we hear that the same is happening in the middle east, just as it did in soviet times. what i think is really tragicl about western policy is that in their efforts to curtail iran, all it managed to do - is strengthen iran.
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invading iraq actually ending up | strengthening the hand of iran. j again, we are seeing the same, but they are being sluggish - in their response to assad's brutality. . they gave obama not living up| to his threat that if the red line was crossed and chemical attacks, he did not do anything. _ that gave putin space to move on and establish links to suchl an extent that syria is now, along with north korea, - one of only two countries - in the world which recognises the moscow stooge republics. all the policy seems to be doing. is enhancing and helping because it has been so badly done. stephanie, you hear the temporary caretaker minister of israel, now that this coalition government has collapsed, in a sense offering a bit of cover,
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saying he might sign an iran nuclear deal if it was beefed up, is there any prospect of it being beefed up or is the view now that because of ukraine, because of the global inflation, all the rest of it, this is no longer the game in town? the nuclear deal with iran has happened and it is not coming back? biden did say that he wanted to revive talks with iran over the nuclear deal right before going on this trip. strange timing on that since he knows that many of the people he was going to meet our very against the deal and view iran as an unreliable partner. so i think most people think that the iran deal is dead in the water, that it is going to be impossible to revive given everything that has happened. and that it is... i do not think it will go anywhere at this point. there is so much opposition to it in congress right now. one other thing that is worth
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touching on isjust the politics inside israel. this coalition was unique in the history of israel because for the first time there were arab ministers serving. in the end, that part was one of the reason is that it collapsed. but notwithstanding that, do you think in any sense that has changed the dynamic within israeli politics? could it have a longer term impact? it was a precedent. arabs actuallyjoined the israeli government for the first time in 74 years. so it was a controversial thing among the arabs inside israel and outside. but this government did not last simply because it was about eight parties participating in a coalition. i believe now is really politics are in disarray,
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like british politics, to be honest. so what will happen, there will be an election in november, so it is the fifth election in less than four years, so whether they will have a strong government... it means israel would not be able to decide in any issues, especially the two state solution. ok, now the israeli prime ministers said that they accept two state solution, but it isjust talks, no action. i believe the whole region at the edge of the war, lebanon on, and on the edge of the war in iran, because iran is really on the edge of producing nuclear weapons, so we expect a war anytime in that part of the world. the israeli are threatening they are going to bomb iran. it is a state of uncertainty for the whole middle east. on that question of potentially some kind of resolution in terms
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of israel and the palestinians, it looks pretty bleak at the moment. there is clearly not much warmth there. there are americans who think that he is not the greatest interlock in terms of proposing the cause, however much history and support you may have had. it looks as bleak as it has for a long time. i there is not the interest, not the commitment. - it was not seem passionate about it. normally predecessors i pretend they have a plan to get things going, - he barely even did that. the palestinian leadership is terrible, the readership| and gazza, the west bank, it is corrupt, it is awful, .
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it is the israeli leadership looks like a basket case, | the government at the moment - because of their extreme form of pr. it allows so many parties and it has just become impossible to find - a strong and stable government, to use a catch popular here. - one point which is extremely important, now the west bank is changing. now the extremists are having the upper hand, i know there are a lot of attacks against israel to stop simply because people are frustrated. there is not any hope. even biden, when he visited, he did not pay any attention to the two state solution. they are still on the american terrorist list, and he never established a consulate for the palestinians. so i think this trip actually added
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to the problems in the middle east. lets move on to talk about the british conservatives. ian, you have a past connection with the british conservative party, we have the top three candidates. as we are speaking on this programme, sitting here together, there is the first of a number of debates taking place, they will continue through the weekend, they will then continue beyond the weekend as the number of candidates is reduced on monday by british conservatives voting again to whittle the list down. the three frontrunners are pretty clear. rishi sunak, the former chancellor, liz truss, the foreign secretary, and penny mordaunt, who is relatively unknown junior minister. give us a sense of what your impressions are of these three and what they might mean, if anything different, for britain? they will be different. each prime minister brings a different flavour-
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and different character. it has been very interesting to see how far the conservative party has moved in recent years so that everyone is now a brexiteer, i no one accepts that brexit is causing any problems, i so there is this pretencej that it is all going great. the fact that even the most| moderate candidates accept the rwanda asylum deal, _ which is to send refugees and to pay a dictator to host them in rwanda, a pretty repellent dictator at that, l everyone has signed up to that which is a sign of where - they are in terms of immigration. when it comes to tax cuts, - there is a very strong argument as to whether you should have tax cuts now or hold off. _ rishi sunak, as former chancellor, has been putting up taxes partly. to cope with the impact of covid. he is saying we cannot do tax cuts now, but we will do - them in the future. essentially everyone is getting away with saying we want tax cuts, -
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a smaller state, but no one i is defining what is the smaller state and what will be cut. there is this really strong unity. but different characters with each of them. - liz truss is a wannabe _ margaret thatcher, who for a long time has been cosplaying her, doing pictures in tanks - like margaret thatcher and things like this. i rishi sunak, an interesting, - very smart guy, but to some extent hindered by the fact - of his wife's extreme wealth. he kept a green card that allowed him to work in america after he had become a politician and a cabinet minister. what theresa may used to call a citizen of the world, a citizen of nowhere. with the inflation and cost of living issues, that is problematic. penny mordaunt is a blank canvas for many people. l people can project- onto her what they want. she was a brexiteer, but she is also very socially liberal. _ it is a really interesting mixture, and she has a sort of navy- background which ticks boxes
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in the conservative party. - she is an interesting mixture of policies and background. i i was trying to do a broadcast on wednesday evening and there was a brass band playing, not just various military themes and the national anthem, even a selection from mary poppins, which was rather intriguing. we were getting a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down, which i wondered how that would translate to policy terms. this leadership race is so different from previous ones because there is no clear winner that has emerged quickly, like it has in the past. the other thing is because the tories have been in powerfor 12 years, they are all coming out with these ways to fix various problems that we are facing, inflation, the nhs, pretending that they have not been in powerfor 12 years, they are running against the establishment, and that they do not bear any responsibility for it, which is very odd. i think all of them, barring rishi sunak,
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are proposing unfunded tax cuts and the bonfire brexit regulations is the way to kick—start the economy. i think that is not really going to cut it in the end. what we are facing in the winter is a very bleak scenario of energy crisis, rising gas prices, putin probably cutting off gas from europe, and already the nhs is on its knees. i do not think any of them have the ideas to really solve the problems at hand. i mean, it isjust remarkable that there has been four prime ministers in 12 years. it has been governing by chaos. how can you set an economic policy effectively if there is just so much crisis? governing by crisis? i have been in this country for 40
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years, i have never seen this country facing this stagnation, political stagnation. to be honest, problems after problems, scandals, stabbing in the back, divisions. the political process is not actually as it used to be. i do not want to sound like an old man. perish the thought! now we have hopefully some changes. this country is drowning, to be honest. there must be strong leadership. the conservative party, labour party, these two pillars of british politics, they have to move to save the country. now we have inflation 10%, we have problems of energy, public services are deteriorating, stephanie said. this country should be saved. i believe there is a chance. so i hope it will be fruitful.
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sometimes we have to wait. two candidates are a little way back, next week we will get it out of the final two, then they go out to conservative party members, we will not get a new prime minister until september. to win this battle, you've got to appeal first of all to mps l and a party which has basically been made by brexit and borisjohnson, i so it has shifted to a more populist right, then you're going to appeal. to the constituency, i who tend to be older and quite conservative. and then your purchase amount flip and appeal to the whole country. i it has a slightly odd process. this is the problem i have with this process, the next prime minister will be elected by 150,000 tory... we do not know. we note that they are overwhelmingly white, mostly male, mostly older, and more of them supported brexit by far than the country as a whole. so i think it raises questions about
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the legitimacy of the government. i do not think any tory leader would dare to call an election now. it is possible they will hold one quickly if they have _ a bubble in the polls. we have to finish, forgive me. ten seconds. i am happy rishi sunak is top for the time being. thank you all very much. just one last thought, since we are going to get heavy temperatures in the uk next week, up to perhaps a0 degrees. an emergency minister has been appointed for that. it brings back memories of the ministerfor the drought back in 1976. in 200 years, there had not been a summer as hot as it was in 1976, the then prime minister appointed dennis howe as the minister for the drought. a few days later, it began to rain. let's hope the rains are coming soon. whatever you're doing next week, keep well, keep covered, and keep indoors if you can.
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back at the same time next week, whatever the weather brings! from all of us, goodbye. hello. heat continues to build across the uk. during the early hours of monday morning, we have ourfirst ever extreme heat warning that's been issued by the met office, and that is due to the fact that temperatures could exceed a0 degrees. temperatures like that could have a direct impact on your health, so please take extra care for the rest of sunday. however, we've got lots of blue sky and sunshine starting to develop. early morning rains easing away
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from the north east of scotland and england, and temperatures here will peak into the mid—20s, but highest values through the rest of this afternoon, potentially into the low 30s. that's the 90s in terms of fahrenheit. first thing monday morning is wall to wall sunshine pretty much away from the far north of scotland. these are the areas where we have that extreme red heat warning. and as temperatures peak through the middle of the afternoon, widely into the mid to high 30s, potentially as high as 41 celsius.
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this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. thousands of firefighters continue to battle wildfires across europe — many people have died from the intense heat. in england and parts of wales, an amber warning for extreme heat has begun. the five remaining candidates for british prime minister will battle it out in their second tv debate later. a cargo plane has crashed in northern greece — killing all eight people on board. translation: there were flames, we were scared. — translation: there were flames, we were scared. a — translation: there were flames, we were scared, a lot _ translation: there were flames, we were scared, a lot of— translation: there were flames, we were scared, a lot of cars _ translation: there were flames, we were scared, a lot of cars came - translation: there were flames, we were scared, a lot of cars came but. were scared, a lot of cars came but they could not approach because they were continuous explosions. the uk chief of the defence staff speaks out about vladimir putin. some of the comments that he is not well awe that actually, surely,
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somebody is going to assassinate him or take him out,

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