this is bbc news. the headlines.. donald trump's former strategist, steve bannon, has been found guilty of contempt of congress. he was charged after refusing to testify to the inquiry into the january the 6th riots at the us capitol — and could face two years in prison. ukraine and russia have signed a deal which will allow the resumption of ukrainian grain exports from ports on the black sea. they had been blocked by russia, following the military invasion. russian exports will also be guaranteed safe passage. the un says the agreement could help millions avoid hunger. anti—government demonstrations have continued in the sri lankan capital, colombo — as the new prime minister names his cabinet. the protesters remain concerned

at the lack of action taken to end the economic crisis. police have been deployed to remove camps set up outside the presidential palace. that is that for me. tim will be here at the top of the hour. now on bbc news, the media show. hello, iam ros hello, i am ros atkins. welcome to this edition of the media show. we are going to talk about tb political debates, because the conservative party leadership races down to two candidates, rishi sunak and liz truss. there have been two debates between then and some of the other candidates

already. one got cancelled after some of the candidates declined to take parts. the bbc is planning another with just the final two. the whole process, the way the debates that played out have raised broader questions about how they are organised, how they serve voters and the country as a whole, and how the broadcasters find the experience. we are going to be speaking tojonathan experience. we are going to be speaking to jonathan from experience. we are going to be speaking tojonathan from sky news, kristin from channel 4, julie catching them for my tv news as well, but first of all, let's bring in faisal islam, because he will be the on—air team for this bbc debate. tell us more. ., ' team for this bbc debate. tell us more. ., team for this bbc debate. tell us more. y ., ., .,, us more. yelling off a lot has been done. _ us more. yelling off a lot has been done, a _ us more. yelling off a lot has been done, a lot _ us more. yelling off a lot has been done, a lot of— us more. yelling off a lot has i been done, a lot of the legwork has been done by the excellent debates hosted by two of the other people on this call, really rich in terms of drama, and some interesting and intriguing policy proposals that we are yet to hear detail on. i think another factor here is that we haven't heard as many broadcast interviews with some of the candidates to be prime minister as we may have had in the past. these really have been the only way to

independently probe people that could be prime minister in a few weeks' time. i found them tremendously interesting. i think we will try to tease out some of the detail where obviously there can be strategies where such detail is not forthcoming or helpful for the electorate we are trying to impress. it is ourjob to try and hold the two people left in now to account on behalf of the country to try and extract that information, to try and find out what they think about, you know, what really matters right now, and obviously my thoughts on the economy and the. been here faisal— on the economy and the. been here faisal islam _ on the economy and the. been here faisal islam kania - on the economy and the. been here faisal islam kania all- on the economy and the. been here faisal islam kania all of. here faisal islam kania all of these programmes try to tease out policy details but there are different ways going around that. help me understand how you settled on the format that you settled on the format that you went for. you settled on the format that you went for-— you settled on the format that you went for. well, the format was very much _

you went for. well, the format was very much based - you went for. well, the format was very much based on - you went for. well, the format was very much based on whatl you went for. well, the format i was very much based on what we had done — was very much based on what we had done before in 2019, when we did — had done before in 2019, when we did that, conservative leadership contest and a labour party— leadership contest and a labour party leadership contest we had done _ party leadership contest we had done as— party leadership contest we had done as well, which was essentially that the subjects will be — essentially that the subjects will be determined by the invited _ will be determined by the invited audience. they would kick— invited audience. they would kick off — invited audience. they would kick off with questions that would _ kick off with questions that would determine the main topic and then— would determine the main topic and then i— would determine the main topic and then i would follow up with supplementary use. each candidate would get an opportunity to answer each question, but we would take it in turns— question, but we would take it in turns to _ question, but we would take it in turns to give them the first io in turns to give them the first go and — in turns to give them the first go and then after that and it was — go and then after that and it was basically free debate. they were _ was basically free debate. they were free — was basically free debate. they were free to chime in, and it took— were free to chime in, and it took them _ were free to chime in, and it took them a little while. it was — took them a little while. it was interesting. they did start debating, but it took them a little — debating, but it took them a little while to get used to that — little while to get used to that format and to start taking advantage of it. but it was pretty— advantage of it. but it was pretty simple, and what we have done _ pretty simple, and what we have done before. in terms of getting _ done before. in terms of getting them to argue, i mean, what _ getting them to argue, i mean, what we — getting them to argue, i mean, what we kind of had to do was point — what we kind of had to do was point out that they were saying different — point out that they were saying different things. the big one

in the — different things. the big one in the debate was the opening out of— in the debate was the opening out of the economic debate, the question— out of the economic debate, the question of whether you can fund — question of whether you can fund tax _ question of whether you can fund tax cuts through borrowing or not _ fund tax cuts through borrowing or not and — fund tax cuts through borrowing or not and that disagreement between liz truss and rishi sunak— between liz truss and rishi sunak which has become the story— sunak which has become the story of— sunak which has become the story of the campaign. it was fleshed — story of the campaign. it was fleshed out more on the debate on sunday, and i'm sure it will be on sunday, and i'm sure it will he the — on sunday, and i'm sure it will he the core _ on sunday, and i'm sure it will be the core of the debate on monday as well. that's just a question— monday as well. that's just a question of same to liz truss, what — question of same to liz truss, what is — question of same to liz truss, what is your economic policy? rishi — what is your economic policy? rishi sunak, why do you think that's— rishi sunak, why do you think that's fairy tale economics? off that's fairy tale economics? 0ff it — that's fairy tale economics? off it went. that's fairy tale economics? off it went-— off it went. that was the format you _ off it went. that was the format you pursued. - off it went. that was the i format you pursued. julie, i off it went. that was the - format you pursued. julie, i am interested, do you negotiate the format but the candidates are just ring them the format but the candidates arejust ring them up and the format but the candidates are just ring them up and tell them this is how we are doing it? ' . , ., it? effectively, we need to acknowledge, _ it? effectively, we need to acknowledge, and - it? effectively, we need to acknowledge, and i- it? effectively, we need to acknowledge, and i know. acknowledge, and i know christian— acknowledge, and i know christian will— acknowledge, and i know christian will be - acknowledge, and i know christian will be super. acknowledge, and i know. christian will be super aware of this— christian will be super aware of this as _ christian will be super aware of this as well, _ christian will be super aware of this as well, these - christian will be super awarel of this as well, these debates were — of this as well, these debates were literally— of this as well, these debates were literally turned - of this as well, these debates were literally turned around l were literally turned around within — were literally turned around within four _ were literally turned around within four or— were literally turned around within four or five _ were literally turned around within four or five days, - were literally turned around within four or five days, sol within four or five days, so there — within four or five days, so there is— within four or five days, so there is not— within four or five days, so there is not time _ within four or five days, so there is not time for- within four or five days, so there is not time for a - within four or five days, so| there is not time for a long negotiation _ there is not time for a long negotiation and _ there is not time for a long negotiation and we - there is not time for a longl negotiation and we basically decided _ negotiation and we basically decided here _ negotiation and we basically decided here is— negotiation and we basically decided here is a _ negotiation and we basically decided here is a crisp - negotiation and we basically. decided here is a crisp format for itv— decided here is a crisp format for ”v that _ decided here is a crisp format for itv that is _ decided here is a crisp format for itv that is an _ decided here is a crisp format for itv that is an hour- decided here is a crisp format for itv that is an hour long. l for itv that is an hour long. we've — for itv that is an hour long. we've had _ for itv that is an hour long. we've had less _ for itv that is an hour long. we've had less time - for itv that is an hour long. we've had less time than i we've had less time than christian— we've had less time than christian had _

we've had less time than christian had for- we've had less time than christian had for his - we've had less time than i christian had for his debate, and — christian had for his debate, and we _ christian had for his debate, and we presented _ christian had for his debate, and we presented them - christian had for his debate, j and we presented them with christian had for his debate, - and we presented them with what we wanted — and we presented them with what we wanted to— and we presented them with what we wanted to do. _ and we presented them with what we wanted to do. we _ and we presented them with what we wanted to do. we invited - we wanted to do. we invited them — we wanted to do. we invited them all— we wanted to do. we invited them all to— we wanted to do. we invited them all to take _ we wanted to do. we invited them all to take part. - we wanted to do. we invited them all to take part. they. we wanted to do. we invited . them all to take part. they are obviously— them all to take part. they are obviously free _ them all to take part. they are obviously free to _ them all to take part. they are obviously free to do _ them all to take part. they are obviously free to do that - them all to take part. they are obviously free to do that or - obviously free to do that or not — obviously free to do that or not to— obviously free to do that or not to do— obviously free to do that or not to do that, _ obviously free to do that or not to do that, and - obviously free to do that or not to do that, and we - obviously free to do that or not to do that, and we saidj obviously free to do that or i not to do that, and we said on this occasion _ not to do that, and we said on this occasion we _ not to do that, and we said on this occasion we are _ not to do that, and we said on this occasion we are doing - not to do that, and we said on this occasion we are doing in i this occasion we are doing in our~ — this occasion we are doing in our~ there _ this occasion we are doing in our. there won't _ this occasion we are doing in our. there won't be - this occasion we are doing in our. there won't be an- our. there won't be an audience _ our. there won't be an audience. we - our. there won't be an audience. we had- our. there won't be an audience. we had a i our. there won't be an- audience. we had a strong feeling _ audience. we had a strong feeling with— audience. we had a strong feeling with our— audience. we had a strong feeling with our format - audience. we had a strongl feeling with our format that actually _ feeling with our format that actually we _ feeling with our format that actually we were _ feeling with our format that| actually we were introducing the candidates _ actually we were introducing the candidates to _ actually we were introducing the candidates to our- actually we were introducing. the candidates to our audience. they— the candidates to our audience. they many— the candidates to our audience. they many people _ the candidates to our audience. they many people watching - the candidates to our audience. they many people watching at i they many people watching at home — they many people watching at home might _ they many people watching at home might not _ they many people watching at home might not have - they many people watching at home might not have been. they many people watching at. home might not have been aware of them _ home might not have been aware of them or— home might not have been aware of them or know _ home might not have been aware of them or know them _ home might not have been aware of them or know them at - home might not have been aware of them or know them at all, - of them or know them at all, really— of them or know them at all, really come _ of them or know them at all, really come in _ of them or know them at all, really come in terms - of them or know them at all, really come in terms of - of them or know them at all, really come in terms of their| really come in terms of their political— really come in terms of their political standing. _ really come in terms of their political standing. we - really come in terms of their political standing. we had i really come in terms of their political standing. we had a| political standing. we had a slightly— political standing. we had a slightly different _ political standing. we had a slightly different format, i political standing. we had a. slightly different format, and ithink— slightly different format, and i think it's _ slightly different format, and i think it's possible _ slightly different format, and i think it's possible he - slightly different format, and i think it's possible he gave l i think it's possible he gave that— i think it's possible he gave that sort— i think it's possible he gave that sort of— i think it's possible he gave that sort of intensity - i think it's possible he gave that sort of intensity that l i think it's possible he gave l that sort of intensity that you saw play _ that sort of intensity that you saw play out _ that sort of intensity that you saw play out on _ that sort of intensity that you saw play out on sunday- that sort of intensity that you | saw play out on sunday night. county. — saw play out on sunday night. county. do _ saw play out on sunday night. county. do you _ saw play out on sunday night. county, do you rehearse... i saw play out on sunday night. i county, do you rehearse... you didn't have time.— didn't have time. that we didn't have time. that we didn't have _ didn't have time. that we didn't have time. - didn't have time. that we didn't have time. i - didn't have time. that we didn't have time. i didn'tl didn't have time. that we i didn't have time. i didn't know this is— didn't have time. i didn't know this is happening for sure until— this is happening for sure until thursday at about four o'clock _ until thursday at about four o'clock when rishi sunak treated _ o'clock when rishi sunak treated "see you there" and until— treated "see you there" and until that _ treated "see you there" and until that point i was waiting for somebody at channel 4 to say that— for somebody at channel 4 to say that we decided to call it

off, we — say that we decided to call it off, we are not going to air it unless— off, we are not going to air it unless they all turn up. we didn't— unless they all turn up. we didn't have confirmation. it was — didn't have confirmation. it was really only thursday at four — was really only thursday at four o'clock when i started going. _ four o'clock when i started going, right, how is this going to work? _ going, right, how is this going to work? what will we asked? it was only— to work? what will we asked? it was only on friday morning when we got _ was only on friday morning when we got the — was only on friday morning when we got the audience questions and that— we got the audience questions and that we can actually determine what the core of the debate — determine what the core of the debate was going to be about. we had — debate was going to be about. we had obviously thought, well, we would — we had obviously thought, well, we would like to have a section on this, — we would like to have a section on this, a — we would like to have a section on this, a section on that. but we couldn't— on this, a section on that. but we couldn't decide that because we couldn't decide that because we had — we couldn't decide that because we had given a commitment that it would — we had given a commitment that it would be the audience's questions that determine what we talked about. so it was literally— we talked about. so it was literally around 11 o'clock on friday— literally around 11 o'clock on friday that we were going to the questions going, right, most — the questions going, right, most of— the questions going, right, most of the vast majority of these — most of the vast majority of these questions are about liz truss — these questions are about liz truss. that 70%. it got to give a big _ truss. that 70%. it got to give a big amount of programme to that _ a big amount of programme to that -- — a big amount of programme to that -- it— a big amount of programme to that. —— it was about to trust. you _ that. —— it was about to trust. you didn't— that. —— it was about to trust. you didn't have time to rehearse. so what about you, julie? . rehearse. so what about you, jufie? . . rehearse. so what about you, julie? ., ., �* ., julie? have to say i've done uuite a julie? have to say i've done quite a lot _ julie? have to say i've done quite a lot of— julie? have to say i've done quite a lot of these, - julie? have to say i've done quite a lot of these, no i quite a lot of these, no christian— quite a lot of these, no christian has— quite a lot of these, no christian has as - quite a lot of these, no christian has as well, i quite a lot of these, nol christian has as well, as quite a lot of these, no- christian has as well, as soon as i_ christian has as well, as soon as i know— christian has as well, as soon as i know there _ christian has as well, as soon as i know there is— christian has as well, as soon as i know there is one, - christian has as well, as soon as i know there is one, therel as i know there is one, there is a — as i know there is one, there is a part— as i know there is one, there is a part of— as i know there is one, there is a part of my— as i know there is one, there is a part of my brain- as i know there is one, there is a part of my brain alreadyl is a part of my brain already working _ is a part of my brain already working on— is a part of my brain already working on it. _ is a part of my brain already working on it. when- is a part of my brain already working on it. when i- is a part of my brain already working on it. when i got. is a part of my brain alreadyl working on it. when i got the call i — working on it. when i got the

call i was _ working on it. when i got the call i was on _ working on it. when i got the call i was on catalonia - working on it. when i got the call i was on catalonia for- call i was on catalonia for my silver— call i was on catalonia for my silver wedding _ call i was on catalonia for my silver wedding anniversary. l silver wedding anniversary. congratulations. _ silver wedding anniversary. congratulations.— silver wedding anniversary. congratulations. imagine how that went down. _ congratulations. imagine how that went down. i _ congratulations. imagine how that went down. i got - congratulations. imagine how that went down. i got a i congratulations. imagine how that went down. i got a call. congratulations. imagine how| that went down. i got a call on monday— that went down. i got a call on monday and _ that went down. i got a call on monday and it _ that went down. i got a call on monday and it was _ that went down. i got a call on monday and it was just - that went down. i got a call on monday and it was just sort i that went down. i got a call on| monday and it was just sort of, 0k, monday and it was just sort of, ok. here — monday and it was just sort of, ok. here is _ monday and it was just sort of, ok. here is a _ monday and it was just sort of, ok, here is a heads— monday and it was just sort of, ok, here is a heads up, - monday and it was just sort of, ok, here is a heads up, and i ok, here is a heads up, and there— ok, here is a heads up, and there may— ok, here is a heads up, and there may he— ok, here is a heads up, and there may be a _ ok, here is a heads up, and there may be a debate i ok, here is a heads up, and there may be a debate on . ok, here is a heads up, and i there may be a debate on sunday night _ there may be a debate on sunday night it— there may be a debate on sunday night it was— there may be a debate on sunday night. it was like, _ there may be a debate on sunday night. it was like, ok, _ there may be a debate on sunday night. it was like, ok, fine. i night. it was like, ok, fine. as soon _ night. it was like, ok, fine. as soon as— night. it was like, ok, fine. as soon as somebody i night. it was like, ok, fine. as soon as somebody has i night. it was like, ok, fine. i as soon as somebody has said that— as soon as somebody has said that to — as soon as somebody has said that to me. _ as soon as somebody has said that to me. i— as soon as somebody has said that to me, i don't— as soon as somebody has said that to me, i don't think - as soon as somebody has said that to me, i don't think therej that to me, i don't think there is a _ that to me, i don't think there is a part— that to me, i don't think there is a part of— that to me, i don't think there is a part of my— that to me, i don't think there is a part of my brain— that to me, i don't think there is a part of my brain that i is a part of my brain that is already— is a part of my brain that is already going _ is a part of my brain that is already going on _ is a part of my brain that is already going on it. - is a part of my brain that is already going on it. i- is a part of my brain that is already going on it. i knew| already going on it. i knew that it _ already going on it. i knew that it was _ already going on it. i knew that it was pretty- already going on it. i knew that it was pretty likely - that it was pretty likely within— that it was pretty likely within hours. _ that it was pretty likely within hours. it - that it was pretty likely within hours. it looked| that it was pretty likely . within hours. it looked as that it was pretty likely - within hours. it looked as if it was— within hours. it looked as if it was moving _ within hours. it looked as if it was moving in _ within hours. it looked as if it was moving in the - within hours. it looked as if it was moving in the right l it was moving in the right direction, _ it was moving in the right direction, it— it was moving in the right direction, it was - it was moving in the right direction, it was akin - it was moving in the right direction, it was akin to l it was moving in the righti direction, it was akin to an automatic— direction, it was akin to an automatic mode. - direction, it was akin to an automatic mode. i- direction, it was akin to an automatic mode. i know. direction, it was akin to an . automatic mode. i know how direction, it was akin to an - automatic mode. i know how i have _ automatic mode. i know how i have to — automatic mode. i know how i have to prep— automatic mode. i know how i have to prep for— automatic mode. i know how i have to prep for these - automatic mode. i know how i have to prep for these and - automatic mode. i know how i have to prep for these and it i have to prep for these and it is really— have to prep for these and it is really detailed, _ have to prep for these and it is really detailed, it - have to prep for these and it is really detailed, it is, - have to prep for these and it is really detailed, it is, you i is really detailed, it is, you know. _ is really detailed, it is, you know. i_ is really detailed, it is, you know, i already _ is really detailed, it is, you know, i already thought. is really detailed, it is, you i know, i already thought about which — know, i already thought about which subject— know, i already thought about which subject areas _ know, i already thought about which subject areas to - know, i already thought about which subject areas to pull - know, i already thought about which subject areas to pull in, j which subject areas to pull in, and they— which subject areas to pull in, and they were _ which subject areas to pull in, and they were very— which subject areas to pull in, and they were very obvious i and they were very obvious subject— and they were very obvious subject areas. _ and they were very obvious subject areas. i— and they were very obvious subject areas. ijust - and they were very obvious subject areas. ijust start . subject areas. ijust start working _ subject areas. ijust start working as _ subject areas. ijust start working as soon - subject areas. ijust start working as soon as - subject areas. ijust start working as soon as i- subject areas. ijust start l working as soon as i know, because _ working as soon as i know, because i_ working as soon as i know, because i know— working as soon as i know, because i know that - working as soon as i know, because i know that there i working as soon as i know, i because i know that there is that— because i know that there is that sort— because i know that there is that sort of— because i know that there is that sort 0— because i know that there is that sort o— because i know that there is that sort 0 that sort of of, ok, you have 'ust not that sort of of, ok, you have just got to — that sort of of, ok, you have just got to prepare _ that sort of of, ok, you have just got to prepare in - that sort of of, ok, you have just got to prepare in case i just got to prepare in case something shifts or changes. i would just like to be across that. i would 'ust like to be across that. �* i would 'ust like to be across that. . ., , that. i'm particularly interested _ that. i'm particularly interested in - that. i'm particularly interested in this - that. i'm particularly. interested in this idea that. i'm particularly- interested in this idea of rehearsal. i note christian is now editor, i would play out

scenarios about what would happen that interview. you have a colleague who is pretending to be rishi sunak? taste a colleague who is pretending to be rishi sunak?— to be rishi sunak? we have a whole line-up _ to be rishi sunak? we have a whole line-up of _ to be rishi sunak? we have a whole line-up of colleagues l whole line—up of colleagues pretending _ whole line—up of colleagues pretending to _ whole line—up of colleagues pretending to be _ whole line—up of colleagues pretending to be all- whole line—up of colleagues pretending to be all of- whole line—up of colleagues. pretending to be all of them. whole line—up of colleagues . pretending to be all of them. i -ot pretending to be all of them. i got back— pretending to be all of them. i got back on_ pretending to be all of them. i got back on friday _ pretending to be all of them. i got back on friday night, - got back on friday night, saturday— got back on friday night, saturday morning, - got back on friday night, saturday morning, we i got back on friday night, . saturday morning, we were got back on friday night, - saturday morning, we were in a room _ saturday morning, we were in a room rehearsing, _ saturday morning, we were in a room rehearsing, doing - saturday morning, we were in a room rehearsing, doing a - saturday morning, we were in a room rehearsing, doing a paperj room rehearsing, doing a paper rehearsal— room rehearsing, doing a paper rehearsal with— room rehearsing, doing a paper rehearsal with five _ room rehearsing, doing a paper rehearsal with five standing - rehearsal with five standing candidates. _ rehearsal with five standing candidates. we _ rehearsal with five standing candidates. we are - rehearsal with five standing candidates. we are just - rehearsal with five standing i candidates. we are just very fortunate _ candidates. we are just very fortunate i_ candidates. we are just very fortunate. i do _ candidates. we are just very fortunate. i do these - candidates. we are just veryl fortunate. i do these debates with— fortunate. i do these debates with this _ fortunate. i do these debates with this amazing _ fortunate. i do these debates with this amazing team - fortunate. i do these debates with this amazing team on i fortunate. i do these debatesl with this amazing team on the programme _ with this amazing team on the programme ah_ with this amazing team on the programme. an amazing - with this amazing team on the programme. an amazing array with this amazing team on the . programme. an amazing array of smart— programme. an amazing array of smart producers— programme. an amazing array of smart producers who _ programme. an amazing array of smart producers who are - programme. an amazing array of smart producers who are all- smart producers who are all across— smart producers who are all across att— smart producers who are all across all of— smart producers who are all across all of the _ smart producers who are all across all of the policy- across all of the policy detail, _ across all of the policy detail, and _ across all of the policy detail, and it - across all of the policy detail, and it allows . across all of the policy. detail, and it allows me across all of the policy- detail, and it allows me to test — detail, and it allows me to test out _ detail, and it allows me to test out how— detail, and it allows me to test out how the _ detail, and it allows me to test out how the debate i detail, and it allows me to test out how the debate isj test out how the debate is going _ test out how the debate is going to _ test out how the debate is going to work. _ test out how the debate is going to work, so - test out how the debate is going to work, so we - test out how the debate isj going to work, so we were test out how the debate is- going to work, so we were doing that oh— going to work, so we were doing that on saturday— going to work, so we were doing that on saturday morning. - going to work, so we were doing that on saturday morning. we i that on saturday morning. we did another— that on saturday morning. we did another full— that on saturday morning. we did another full dress- did another full dress rehearsal— did another full dress rehearsal on - did another full dress rehearsal on sunday, j did another full dress- rehearsal on sunday, and for me, — rehearsal on sunday, and for me, they— rehearsal on sunday, and for me, they aren't _ rehearsal on sunday, and for me, they aren't absolutely. me, they aren't absolutely cruciat _ me, they aren't absolutely crucial bit _ me, they aren't absolutely crucial bit of _ me, they aren't absolutely crucial bit of the _ me, they aren't absolutely crucial bit of the process. i me, they aren't absolutely. crucial bit of the process. one ruestion crucial bit of the process. one question i— crucial bit of the process. one question i got— crucial bit of the process. one question i got for _ crucial bit of the process. one question i got for the - crucial bit of the process. question i got for the three crucial bit of the process.“ question i got for the three of you before i bring in our guest from sky news was that faisal islam can your back with us, you can help me here. when this is playing out in real time and there is a lot of information coming your way, a lot of it you wouldn't know is coming her way until you hear it, how do

you fact check it? id catch the things that are maybe not as accurate as they need to be in the moment?— accurate as they need to be in the moment? that is part of the format that _ the moment? that is part of the format that we _ the moment? that is part of the format that we have _ the moment? that is part of the format that we have put - format that we have put together for monday, that we have the brilliant host, sophie ray worth, doing the main questioning, but to myself and my esteemed colleague, chris mason will be to the side checking things interjecting i think and asking some questions. it's not firmly hammered down, but we are that going to gain up the process hasjust been going to gain up the process has just been talked about in the next couple of days. i think it's quite intriguing, actually, we did this with some depth for the brexit referendum when i was working with jonathan at sky, and jonathan was a rather good michael go. it was incredibly difficult in the practice. so difficult that i thought there is no way, it's not very helpful, jonathan, you're being so difficult, it's unrealistic. and he was only half of that tough opponent

that he ended up being. shifter that he ended up being. after that he ended up being. after that failing. _ that he ended up being. after that failing, we _ that he ended up being. after that failing, we have - that he ended up being. after that failing, we have to - that he ended up being. after that failing, we have to bring him in, jonathan, head of newsgathering and operations at sky news, a man who it sounds i can do an impression of michael go when is required. i can do an impression of michael go when is required.— go when is required. i want to do that. but _ go when is required. i want to do that. but | _ go when is required. i want to do that. but i wonder- go when is required. i want to do that. but i wonder if- go when is required. i want to do that. but i wonder if this . do that. but i wonder if this is a little — do that. but i wonder if this is a little frustrating - is a little frustrating listening to all of us, because you are listening to the bbc itv and channel for talking about will happen and what wont happen in your debate didn't. it was very frustrating this week _ it was very frustrating this week. he went into the be come into monday with a commitment of four— into monday with a commitment of four of— into monday with a commitment of four of the five remaining candidates in the race at that point, — candidates in the race at that point, howeverwas candidates in the race at that point, however was left turned up point, however was left turned up and — point, however was left turned up and debate. we felt we had a kind of— up and debate. we felt we had a kind of viable programme that we could — kind of viable programme that we could go ahead with, then unfortunately, for us, monday morning. _ unfortunately, for us, monday morning, liz truss and rishi sunak— morning, liz truss and rishi sunak said they weren't going

to take — sunak said they weren't going to take part, and rishi sunak's team _ to take part, and rishi sunak's team had _ to take part, and rishi sunak's team had not given a commitment, but the others had, so at _ commitment, but the others had, so at that— commitment, but the others had, so at that point, we really didn't— so at that point, we really didn't anticipate given that they— didn't anticipate given that they were two out of the three candidates who were leading the np's ballot that we would have a programme, so it's turned out to he _ a programme, so it's turned out to be but — a programme, so it's turned out to be. but that really speaks to, you _ to be. but that really speaks to, you call the freestyle nature _ to, you call the freestyle nature we were talking about earlier, — nature we were talking about earlier, the kind of wild west nature — earlier, the kind of wild west nature that these debates are organised. he was talking about it as well, — organised. he was talking about it as well, about how he didn't know— it as well, about how he didn't know until— it as well, about how he didn't know until rishi sunak tweeted earlier— know until rishi sunak tweeted earlier in— know until rishi sunak tweeted earlier in the week on thursday, i think it was, that he was — thursday, i think it was, that he was going to turn up to the friday debate. the current wild west _ friday debate. the current wild west way— friday debate. the current wild west way of organising these debates where all the broadcasters do their own things— broadcasters do their own things strengthens the hands of the politicians. is things strengthens the hands of the politicians.— the politicians. is at wild west, the politicians. is at wild west. or _ the politicians. is at wild west, or perhaps - the politicians. is at wild west, or perhaps a - the politicians. is at wild - west, or perhaps a leadership contest in the conservative party is not precisely the same

scenario as a general election, for example. you might want different programmes, different numbers of programmes depending on the circumstance. the situation that we have seen play out in this context —— contest completely foretells what is likely to happen ahead of a general election whenever it comes in which the broadcasters will all try and gain each other and gain the politicians in order to try to hold their own debates, which is why sky is arguing once again as we did in 2018 for a formal body, and independent debates commission that certainly ahead of general elections and possibly other contests organises this and ensures that we get a series of debates that politicians turn up debates that politicians turn up until and they are properly formatted and over a proper series of times, because fantastic as the debates the weekend, and i enjoyed them both immensely, they were brilliantly chaired and very

illuminating, what we ended up with was two candidate debates within two days of each other and possibly another debate, though— and possibly another debate, though it didn't happen, couple of days— though it didn't happen, couple of days later with three candidates, rather it was something that was coordinated and structured and organised more — and structured and organised more properly. and structured and organised more properly-— and structured and organised more properly. julie, would you refer more properly. julie, would you preferthis_ more properly. julie, would you prefer this to _ more properly. julie, would you prefer this to be _ more properly. julie, would you prefer this to be a _ more properly. julie, would you prefer this to be a centralised i prefer this to be a centralised system where someone brings you “p system where someone brings you up whether you are away with your husband are doing something else and says, actually, this is definitely what is going to happen. you don't have to sit there and wonder. don't have to sit there and wonder-— don't have to sit there and wonder. . , ., , wonder. that is part of my “ob, 'ust wonder. that is part of my “ob, just perfectly i wonder. that is part of my “ob, just perfectly clear. * wonder. that is part of my “ob, just perfectly clear. we h wonder. that is part of my job, just perfectly clear. we know. just perfectly clear. we know that— just perfectly clear. we know that that _ just perfectly clear. we know that that comes _ just perfectly clear. we know that that comes with - just perfectly clear. we know that that comes with the - that that comes with the territory _ that that comes with the territory. it's— that that comes with the territory. it's part - that that comes with the territory. it's part of - that that comes with the territory. it's part of my| that that comes with the i territory. it's part of myjob and — territory. it's part of myjob and i— territory. it's part of myjob and hust— territory. it's part of myjob and iiust get— territory. it's part of myjob and ijust get on— territory. it's part of myjob and ijust get on with - territory. it's part of myjob and ijust get on with that. i and ijust get on with that. that— and ijust get on with that. that is— and ijust get on with that. that is what _ and ijust get on with that. that is what we _ and ijust get on with that. that is what we are - and ijust get on with that. that is what we are here . that is what we are here for. the — that is what we are here for. the thing _ that is what we are here for. the thing is, _ that is what we are here for. the thing is, you _ that is what we are here for. the thing is, you know, - that is what we are here for. the thing is, you know, the. the thing is, you know, the certainty— the thing is, you know, the certain_ certainty especially, if you are in the _ certainty especially, if you are in the position - certainty especially, if you are in the position of - certainty especially, if you | are in the position of being the moderator has obviously a great deal of appeal to me personally. i would like to be able to plot and plan, and work out if i am going to be the and plan, and work out if i am going to be— going to be the person who is moderating- _ going to be the person who is moderating. i'm _ going to be the person who is moderating. i'm not - going to be the person who is moderating. i'm not making l moderating. i'm not making assumptions _ moderating. i'm not making assumptions about- moderating. i'm not making assumptions about that, -

moderating. i'm not making assumptions about that, it i moderating. i'm not makingi assumptions about that, it is obviously— assumptions about that, it is obviously very _ assumptions about that, it is obviously very attractive - assumptions about that, it is obviously very attractive to l obviously very attractive to think— obviously very attractive to think about _ obviously very attractive to think about having - obviously very attractive to think about having these . obviously very attractive to - think about having these things planned — think about having these things planned and _ think about having these things planned and done _ think about having these things planned and done in— think about having these things planned and done in a - think about having these things. planned and done in a measured way because, _ planned and done in a measured way because, frankly, _ planned and done in a measured way because, frankly, as- planned and done in a measured way because, frankly, as a - way because, frankly, as a journalist _ way because, frankly, as a journalist in _ way because, frankly, as a journalist in the _ way because, frankly, as a journalist in the middle . way because, frankly, as a journalist in the middle of| way because, frankly, as a . journalist in the middle of its you know. _ journalist in the middle of its you know, that— journalist in the middle of its you know, that is— journalist in the middle of its you know, that is obviously. you know, that is obviously helpful— you know, that is obviously helpful to _ you know, that is obviously helpful to you. _ you know, that is obviously helpful to you. but - you know, that is obviously helpful to you. but itv - you know, that is obviously helpful to you. but itv has| helpful to you. but itv has taken _ helpful to you. but itv has taken a _ helpful to you. but itv has taken a bit _ helpful to you. but itv has taken a bit of— helpful to you. but itv has taken a bit of a _ helpful to you. but itv has taken a bit of a different. helpful to you. but itv has. taken a bit of a different view about— taken a bit of a different view about the _ taken a bit of a different view about the idea _ taken a bit of a different view about the idea of _ taken a bit of a different view about the idea of a _ taken a bit of a different view about the idea of a debates l about the idea of a debates commission, _ about the idea of a debates commission, because - about the idea of a debates commission, because itv,. about the idea of a debates i commission, because itv, you know, _ commission, because itv, you know. their— commission, because itv, you know, their position _ commission, because itv, you know, their position is- commission, because itv, you know, their position is that - commission, because itv, you know, their position is that it. know, their position is that it is a _ know, their position is that it is a broadcast _ know, their position is that it is a broadcast to _ know, their position is that it is a broadcast to maybe - is a broadcast to maybe invitation. _ is a broadcast to maybe invitation. we - is a broadcast to maybe invitation. we decide i is a broadcast to maybe. invitation. we decide the programme _ invitation. we decide the programme format - invitation. we decide the programme format and i invitation. we decide the i programme format and we invitation. we decide the - programme format and we do it in a sort — programme format and we do it in a sort of— programme format and we do it in a sort of mixed _ programme format and we do it in a sort of mixed economy- programme format and we do iti in a sort of mixed economy way, if you _ in a sort of mixed economy way, if you like — in a sort of mixed economy way, if you like. sometimes, - in a sort of mixed economy way, if you like. sometimes, we - in a sort of mixed economy way, if you like. sometimes, we have| if you like. sometimes, we have had party— if you like. sometimes, we have had party leaders, _ if you like. sometimes, we have had party leaders, head - if you like. sometimes, we have had party leaders, head heads,. had party leaders, head heads, sometimes _ had party leaders, head heads, sometimes there _ had party leaders, head heads, sometimes there are _ had party leaders, head heads, i sometimes there are programmes where _ sometimes there are programmes where the — sometimes there are programmes where the candidates _ sometimes there are programmes where the candidates they- sometimes there are programmes where the candidates they are - where the candidates they are interrogated _ where the candidates they are interrogated by _ where the candidates they are interrogated by an _ where the candidates they are interrogated by an audience. i interrogated by an audience. there's— interrogated by an audience. there's a _ interrogated by an audience. there's a whole _ interrogated by an audience. there's a whole different - interrogated by an audience. | there's a whole different way of mixing _ there's a whole different way of mixing up _ there's a whole different way of mixing up the _ there's a whole different way of mixing up the coverage - there's a whole different way of mixing up the coverage to| of mixing up the coverage to make — of mixing up the coverage to make sure _ of mixing up the coverage to make sure that _ of mixing up the coverage to make sure that you - of mixing up the coverage to make sure that you are - of mixing up the coverage to i make sure that you are offering as a public— make sure that you are offering as a public service _ make sure that you are offering as a public service broadcaster. as a public service broadcaster as a public service broadcaster a really— as a public service broadcaster a really good _ as a public service broadcaster a really good template - as a public service broadcaster a really good template of- a really good template of programmes— a really good template of programmes to - a really good template of programmes to the - a really good template of- programmes to the audience. we 'ust programmes to the audience. we just think. — programmes to the audience. we just think. you _ programmes to the audience. we just think, you know, _ programmes to the audience. we just think, you know, itv- programmes to the audience. we just think, you know, itv has- just think, you know, itv has taken — just think, you know, itv has taken the _ just think, you know, itv has taken the position _ just think, you know, itv has taken the position that - taken the position that broadcasters _ taken the position that broadcasters have - taken the position that broadcasters have a i taken the position that. broadcasters have a right taken the position that - broadcasters have a right to organise _ broadcasters have a right to organise and _ broadcasters have a right to organise and invite - organise and invite participants. - organise and invite participants. the . organise and invite - participants. the participants then— participants. the participants then have _ participants. the participants then have a _ participants. the participants then have a free _ participants. the participants then have a free choice - participants. the participants. then have a free choice whether to take —

then have a free choice whether to take part _ then have a free choice whether to take part. but _ then have a free choice whether to take part-— to take part. but i wonder whether— to take part. but i wonder whether you _ to take part. but i wonder whether you all, - to take part. but i wonder whether you all, and - to take part. but i wonder whether you all, and you | to take part. but i wonder. whether you all, and you all have great experience making these programmes, but you also have great experience of doing longform interviews. faisal islam, let's bring you income your political editor for sky news before you joined the bbc as economics editor. you have done lots of high—profile longform interviews. do they not reveal more, perhaps, but the candidates and their policy positions and their personality than the more complex and harder to define formats that come with these leadership debates? i come with these leadership debates? ~ , come with these leadership debates? ,, . debates? i think sky and channel _ debates? i think sky and channel 4 _ debates? i think sky and channel 4 develop - debates? i think sky and channel 4 develop a - debates? i think sky and i channel 4 develop a format debates? i think sky and - channel 4 develop a format that was very interactive interview alongside a town hall. that was pretty effective, sadly, it didn't happen at the last election, and it was interesting because it was two broadcasters joining together. i think when you look back over the past six or seven years a decade or so when these debates first happened, back at the 2010 general election, i guess the reality is that it was

felt, that they had a material impact on the results, and various people in the negotiations don't want them to have that material impact. so it's a very delicate situation and they are happening less. and that is one set of problems. i think the absence of longform interviews as well as a real problem. we have very deep and complicated problems, dilemmas, trade—offs that all benefits, i think, from discussion and benefit from some accountability. you know, everyone here does superb interviews. it benefits hugely with those longform interviews happening. they are also under threat, as is the debate format. i threat, as is the debate format-— threat, as is the debate format. ., , . format. i went to understand from all of — format. i went to understand from all of you _ format. i went to understand from all of you how - format. i went to understand from all of you how you - format. i went to understand from all of you how you try i format. i went to understand i from all of you how you try and make these formats work. you have all taken different approaches both in the last few days, but across the last few years as well. before we talk any further, let's listen to one thing thatjulie did during the itv debate on sunday night, which was an effort to ask a

question but get them to answer using their hands. if he wished to serve, who here would be happy to have borisjohnson in their cabinet? please raise your hands. if he wished to serve, would you have boris johnson in your cabinets if you were prime minister? not a single person— were prime minister? not a single person would have boris johnson back— single person would have boris johnson back and... _ single person would have boris johnson back and... the - single person would have boris johnson back and... the neck i j johnson back and... the neck i would like to say something... i think it's only fair. we are going to go back to that after the break. hold that thought. julie, juggling every thing as well as having to go into a break. i wonder why you decided to do that? you must have, i assumed from a plan to do that in advance. assumed from a plan to do that in advance-— in advance. yes, yes. we plan to, and in advance. yes, yes. we plan to. and its— in advance. yes, yes. we plan to, and its because _ in advance. yes, yes. we plan to, and its because when - in advance. yes, yes. we plan to, and its because when we i in advance. yes, yes. we plan i to, and its because when we are thinking about formats, we are thinking about formats, we are thinking about, 0k, we are asking our audience to stay with us for an hour. that is quite a tight time. it might seem an odd thing to say, it is quite hard to cover with four candidates, a lot of subject in an hour, it's a good bit of

shorthand. it switches things up shorthand. it switches things up a bit. it gives a different tempo to the programme. i mean, it is television. it's a visual. it's a great bit of visual. it's a great bit of visual shorthand, even though those hands were down. and it's just one of those little moments. and it also helped us to tee up before we went to the outbreak that we were going to get into the issue of character, and wejust get into the issue of character, and we just thought that was a punchy quick sharp way of doing it, and it was the thing that was picked up. is a thing that was picked up. is a journalistically satisfying to do these debates when you go into them? trying to balance all of these different, sometimes competing factors? i sometimes competing factors? i think that... that is a really great question because actually, they are satisfying as a moderator, they are not always journalistically satisfying because your instinct as a journalist is to want to do and follow—up questions, to go down the route that they sent you on and follow up and interrogate, but you are actually in those formats, you are there to

encourage debate between the candidates, and it is absolutely right that quick follow—ups and points of information are necessary that you simply cannot start fact checking every little detail that gets thrown up within the conversation, you are there to encourage debate. that is what it is. it is not a longform interview, it's not even a short form interview, in some ways, it is quite hard because you have to park some of your instincts at the door when you get on with it and just left them and interrogate one another�*s position. flan them and interrogate one another's position. can you relate to — another's position. can you relate to that _ another's position. can you relate to that christian? . another's position. can you i relate to that christian? that is absolutely _ relate to that christian? that is absolutely the _ relate to that christian? that is absolutely the case. - relate to that christian? that is absolutely the case. you i is absolutely the case. you inevitably have a huge amount of material up your sleeve, all of material up your sleeve, all of the — of material up your sleeve, all of the candidates ready for it, you arises— of the candidates ready for it, you arises and all sorts of things— you arises and all sorts of things as _ you arises and all sorts of things as a moderator you could perceive — things as a moderator you could perceive that you end up not pursuing _ perceive that you end up not pursuing because, you know, it's not— pursuing because, you know, it's not yourjob it's not an interview. _ it's not yourjob it's not an interview, as you say. but you have _ interview, as you say. but you have to — interview, as you say. but you have to do _ interview, as you say. but you have to do is try to get them to answer— have to do is try to get them to answer the questions and debating each other. i think

they— debating each other. i think they have been very, these debates. _ they have been very, these debates, the two debates that have _ debates, the two debates that have happened have been really substantial in terms of what they— substantial in terms of what they have revealed. and i think they— they have revealed. and i think they opened up a debate that had been going on behind closed doors, _ had been going on behind closed doors, behind the scenes, and also _ doors, behind the scenes, and also opened up the rivalry and that the — also opened up the rivalry and that the trial between some of the candidates that have been going — the candidates that have been going on— the candidates that have been going on behind the scenes and with briefings of newspapers. i was surprised in some ways that they wear— was surprised in some ways that they wear as open as they ended up being. — they wear as open as they ended up being, but i think as exercises go, they were a substantial.— exercises go, they were a substantial. �* , , , substantial. but presumably, jonathan knapp _ substantial. but presumably, jonathan knapp sky - substantial. but presumably, jonathan knapp sky news, i substantial. but presumably, i jonathan knapp sky news, you have concluded that one of the reasons your eyes didn't go ahead was because of what happened during julie and krishnan's in the days before hand? i krishnan's in the days before hand? ~' ~' ., krishnan's in the days before hand? ~' ,, ., . ., hand? i think we know that now, because after— hand? i think we know that now, because afterjulie's _ hand? i think we know that now, because afterjulie's debate - hand? i think we know that now, because afterjulie's debate on i because afterjulie's debate on sunday— because afterjulie's debate on sunday evening, _ because afterjulie's debate on sunday evening, it _ because afterjulie's debate on sunday evening, it is _ sunday evening, it is understood - sunday evening, it is understood that - sunday evening, it is| understood that rishi sunday evening, it is - understood that rishi sunak looked _ understood that rishi sunak looked to— understood that rishi sunak looked to liz— understood that rishi sunak looked to liz truss - understood that rishi sunak looked to liz truss and - understood that rishi sunak looked to liz truss and said| looked to liz truss and said why— looked to liz truss and said why are _ looked to liz truss and said why are we _ looked to liz truss and said why are we doing _ looked to liz truss and said why are we doing this? - looked to liz truss and said why are we doing this? or. looked to liz truss and said - why are we doing this? or words to that _

why are we doing this? or words to that effect _ why are we doing this? or words to that effect and _ why are we doing this? or words to that effect and they— why are we doing this? or words to that effect and they then - to that effect and they then decided _ to that effect and they then decided not _ to that effect and they then decided not to _ to that effect and they then decided not to do _ to that effect and they then decided not to do it - to that effect and they then decided not to do it or- to that effect and they then decided not to do it or not. decided not to do it or not to do it— decided not to do it or not to do it that _ decided not to do it or not to do it that tuesday— decided not to do it or not to do it that tuesday after. - decided not to do it or not to do it that tuesday after. i. do it that tuesday after. i think— do it that tuesday after. i think what— do it that tuesday after. i think what comes - do it that tuesday after. i | think what comes through do it that tuesday after. i - think what comes through from all of— think what comes through from all of this— think what comes through from all of this discussion _ think what comes through from all of this discussion is - think what comes through from all of this discussion is the - all of this discussion is the debates— all of this discussion is the debates were _ all of this discussion is the debates were great, - all of this discussion is the debates were great, they. all of this discussion is the - debates were great, they were illuminating, _ debates were great, they were illuminating, they— debates were great, they were illuminating, they were - illuminating, they were relevant _ illuminating, they were relevant tory, - illuminating, they were relevant tory, they- relevant tory, they demonstrated - relevant tory, they demonstrated why| relevant tory, they- demonstrated why they relevant tory, they— demonstrated why they needed to take place. — demonstrated why they needed to take place. but— demonstrated why they needed to take place, but it _ demonstrated why they needed to take place, but it also _ demonstrated why they needed to take place, but it also comes- take place, but it also comes to this — take place, but it also comes to this discussion _ take place, but it also comes to this discussion is - take place, but it also comes to this discussion is ten - take place, but it also comes| to this discussion is ten years on from — to this discussion is ten years on from where _ to this discussion is ten years on from where we _ to this discussion is ten years on from where we secured i on from where we secured working _ on from where we secured working together- on from where we secured working together as- working together as broadcasters, - working together as broadcasters, the l working together as- broadcasters, the great working together as— broadcasters, the great debates in 2010, — broadcasters, the great debates in 2010, the _ broadcasters, the great debates in 2010, the three _ broadcasters, the great debates in 2010, the three across - broadcasters, the great debates in 2010, the three across the i in 2010, the three across the general— in 2010, the three across the general election— in 2010, the three across the general election here, - in 2010, the three across the general election here, over. in 2010, the three across the general election here, over a decade — general election here, over a decade on _ general election here, over a decade on from _ general election here, over a decade on from that, - general election here, over a decade on from that, they i general election here, over a. decade on from that, they are still not — decade on from that, they are still not a _ decade on from that, they are still not a cemented _ still not a cemented consistence - still not a cemented consistence feature | still not a cemented . consistence feature of still not a cemented - consistence feature of our still not a cemented _ consistence feature of our good political — consistence feature of our good political and _ consistence feature of our good political and broadcast - political and broadcast landscape. _ political and broadcast landscape-— political and broadcast landscape. political and broadcast landscae. �* , landscape. they aren't, but, some would _ landscape. they aren't, but, some would argue, - landscape. they aren't, but, some would argue, i - landscape. they aren't, but, some would argue, i guess, | landscape. they aren't, but, - some would argue, i guess, that perhaps the different formats tease out different things from the candidates, julie, i'm really interested to know whether before, during or perhaps afterwards, you saw indications that liz truss and rishi sunak realised that they where showing and abrasiveness within their relationship that perhaps we hadn't seen before.

well, i have to be honest, it was very genial before we went to air, and you've always got those ski moments where you are on the site, as the moderator, i've got the countdown in my ear. you know, it was very chatty, very genial, you know, actually when we came off air, and i always say, please, can we build in a few moments of that shop at the end to see if they are going to go and shake hands or whatever. i genuinely, and this may be in my miss interpretation of things, but i didn't get a sense when they were blocking off the set that they necessarily knew the impact that they had had, you know, outside. it wasn't something that i particularly witnessed at all. i saw a few of them in the corridor is, in the green room afterwards when they were coming out of the dressing rooms and all of the rest of it, and everything was very good—natured. d0 rest of it, and everything was very good-natured.— rest of it, and everything was very good-natured. do you think that was because _ very good-natured. do you think that was because he _ very good-natured. do you think that was because he didn't - very good-natured. do you think that was because he didn't have | that was because he didn't have an audience, said he didn't

pick up on how they were reacting? quebec and the way that big brother contests emerge from the house and don't realise how the audience has reacted to them? laughter well, i hadn't thought of that comparison necessarily, but i thought, you know, a lot about it since. i think that may well have been a factor. it is so intense when you are in that space, it is so intense, and i am used to doing it with an audience on the other side or behind me, and you can pick up on the vibe in the room, but there wasn't a vibe. it was just this little, sort of, intensity, you know? and krishnan. _ intensity, you know? and krishnan, what _ intensity, you know? and krishnan, what about - intensity, you know? and. krishnan, what about you? intensity, you know? and krishnan, what about you? did you pick up on dynamics between the candidates which then played out on the tv? well, as julie says. _ played out on the tv? well, as julie says. no. _ played out on the tv? well, as julie says, no, they _ played out on the tv? well, as julie says, no, they come - played out on the tv? well, as julie says, no, they come on i julie says, no, they come on and — julie says, no, they come on and it's— julie says, no, they come on and it's of— julie says, no, they come on and it's of a straight forward. ithink— and it's of a straight forward. i think actually what this may have — i think actually what this may have revealed is a relative lack— have revealed is a relative lack of— have revealed is a relative lack of experience in these candidates. 90 sorts of debates, and i think that may have — debates, and i think that may have also— debates, and i think that may have also been revealed in the

negotiations leading up to them _ negotiations leading up to them. you know, you don't have to fall— them. you know, you don't have to fall out — them. you know, you don't have to fall out in _ them. you know, you don't have to fall out in these debates. the — to fall out in these debates. the debates became acrimonious because — the debates became acrimonious because they did so, and maybe they did — because they did so, and maybe they did so by accident, or maybe _ they did so by accident, or maybe they did so on purpose. i certainly — maybe they did so on purpose. i certainly got the impression that— certainly got the impression that having opened up the economic argument and the argument on the culture were on the friday— argument on the culture were on the friday night, they seem to have _ the friday night, they seem to have come into the sunday night determined to really thrash it out — determined to really thrash it out and _ determined to really thrash it out. and you know, to really go at each — out. and you know, to really go at each other. it seemed to be quite _ at each other. it seemed to be quite a — at each other. it seemed to be quite a deliberate thing. that may— quite a deliberate thing. that may be — quite a deliberate thing. that may be wrong and it mayjust be my impression as a viewer, i think. — my impression as a viewer, i think. i'm _ my impression as a viewer, i think, i'm not sure they had thought— think, i'm not sure they had thought that clearly about what the impact of a disagreement like that— the impact of a disagreement like that would be.— like that would be. finally, faisal islam, _ like that would be. finally, faisal islam, you - like that would be. finally, faisal islam, you are - like that would be. finally, i faisal islam, you are listening to all of this, no doubt taking mental notes and talking to your colleagues about what julie and krishnan have been sharing. how do you and chris mason and sophie ray with plan to interact with liz truss and

rishi sunak if at all before they go on the tv with you? i they go on the tv with you? i don't think there will be much interaction between now and monday. there will be plenty of interaction between us as a team to try to find out the best ways of teasing out this information.— best ways of teasing out this information. �* ., , . information. but would be meat that candidates _ information. but would be meat that candidates have _ information. but would be meat that candidates have an - information. but would be meat that candidates have an hour i that candidates have an hour before and say hello or would you not see them at all before you not see them at all before you engage them on air? i you not see them at all before you engage them on air? i don't think there _ you engage them on air? i don't think there was _ you engage them on air? i don't think there was much _ you engage them on air? i don't think there was much form - you engage them on air? i don't think there was much form for i think there was much form for this, i do remember doing the sky referendum debate in my green room and opened the door and outside is a much taller than you would david cameron just waiting there for me sort of eyeballing me just to say i am here, a bit like a defender putting in a quick tackle on a striker at the beginning of the match. . , . ., striker at the beginning of the match. . , . . ., match. that is an image to leave us — match. that is an image to leave us with. _ match. that is an image to leave us with. thank - match. that is an image to leave us with. thank you i match. that is an image to i leave us with. thank you very much indeed to you, to krishnan from channel 4 news tojulie from channel 4 news tojulie from my tv news, and also jonathan from sky news. thank you to all four. thank you for

watching the media show. we will be back at the usual time next week. bye—bye. hi. we are forecasting rain this weekend, but not an awful lot of it, and most of it will fall in western areas of the uk, particularly the northwest. there'll be some sunshine around, too, and many of us will actually escape the rain all together, rain that we really need because the gardens are very parched. so, here's the low pressure that will approach us. in fact, it's approaching us right now, the unsettled weather out towards the west. but ahead of this weather front in east anglia, in the southeast, we'll see very warm weather as south—westerly winds develop and tap into some of that heat that's across france right now. but let's have a look at the here and now and the rain approaching northern ireland through early saturday morning. elsewhere, it's generally dry, quite a bright start to the day, a mild one too,

17 celsius in london, 15 celsius in hull and around 1a celsius in the lowlands of scotland. so, the forecast for saturday shows increasing amounts of cloud out towards the west. you can see that rain moves in, it's a fairly broken area of rain, so it'll wax and wane through the morning, into the afternoon, and in fact, if anything, the skies may clear in northern ireland middle of the day, and it'll be quite sunny and pleasant with temperatures up to 20 degrees. it'll stay dry generally east of the pennines, across east anglia and the south coast. so, a fine day for portsmouth, southampton, brighton, and temperatures will be in the low 20s. but towards evening, notice this lump of rain heads towards northern ireland and southwestern scotland, and that could really be quite heavy for a time saturday night into sunday. here's sunday's weather forecast. so, the low pressure, slow—moving and just to the northwest of us, brisk south—westerly winds pushing in clouds and showers, but most of the showers escaping east anglia and the southeast, where warm south—westerly winds will draw in that heat from france. so, temperatures temporarily

reaching 30 celsius there in norwich, and by that, i mean it'sjust going to be the one day. in fact, by the time we get to monday, and this is monday's weather map, the low pressure moves out into the north sea. 0n the back side of it, the winds are coming in from the north. so fresher conditions sweep across the country and it'll cool off. so, here's the forecast for a couple...for a few cities, then, northern areas staying a little unsettled into monday and fresher. further south, also cooling off, but staying generally dry. bye— bye.

this is bbc news. i'm tim willcox, with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. steve bannon, the former aide to president trump, faces jail after being found guilty of contempt of congress. speaking to reporters, he remains defiant. the prosecutor missed one very important phrase. i stand with trump and the constitution, and i will never back off that, ever. ukraine and russia sign a deal allowing the resumption of ukrainian grain exports from ports on the black sea. the un says the agreement could help millions avoid hunger. this is an agreement for the world. it will bring relief for developing countries

on the edge of bankruptcy and the most vulnerable people