this is bbc news, we will have the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour as newsday continues straight after hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. in overturning roe versus wade the us supreme court rejected the argument that the us constitution guaranteed a woman's right to an abortion. now it's down to lawmakers in individual states to decide. and a host of state legislators have already acted to make abortion illegal.

my guest today is marjorie dannenfelser, president of the susan b anthony pro—life america group, an activist organisation supporting anti—abortion politicians. groups like hers are savouring a big victory. could it yet turn sour? marjorie dannenfelser in washington, dc, welcome to hardtalk. thank you so much, stephen.

let me start first with the human and health care aspects of the supreme court ruling. is there any reason to believe that there will be fewer abortions in the united states because of the decision the supreme court came up with? well, i'm glad you begin therapy because it's a fully human issue. so far we know that there will be fewer abortions because many states have already passed either a complete or partial limit on abortion. even just yesterday in the state of georgia the heartbeat ban, which means there is a limit at the point in which there is a heard heartbeat of the baby, the courtjust lifted its injunction of that law and it went into effect. so that means about 20,000 fewer abortions just in the state of georgia. well, you've immediately made the presumption there that because something is a legal it doesn't happen. but there is a mountain of evidence, notjust from the united states or indeed not from the united states but many other countries which have draconian abortion laws, which says those laws do not stop abortions happening,

they simply happen underground. yeah, that's why your other part of the question about the care of women, about the health care piece of this is vital and important. and in every state where there is a limit of any type there is also companion legislation that addresses the needs of women and their unborn children, later born at least in the first few years of life. so providing a springboard support and help in every way. and when i say every way, i mean, think of a woman who is unemployed, already has a child, doesn't have health care or a home, this is a moment in her life when she actually can get help and hope and practical support where she had not. where some of the fundamental issues that led to the place

where she is are addressed, whether it's addiction or mental health care or finishing a gre, where you are finishing a high school education. so the pro—life movement is a moment ofjustice and mercy and that's exactly where we are right now. well, what you just pointed to is the reality in america that abortion rates are highest amongst women from disadvantage and particularly minority african american communities. listen to the words of terry mcgovern, columbia universities school of public health professor, he says these restrictions that states are now imposing in light of the supreme court's ruling, these restrictions will harm those with the least economic resources and those facing racism in every day medical care. does that not worry you? well, it would worry me greatly if it were found that the truth at the foundation of that statement. first of all, it is not true that women in need have more abortions than other, it is basically a flat graph.

that women who have resources, have abortions at the same percentage across the board. yes, it would be true that if we were denying women health care, women in need, we are at layering over another problem for them that had nothing to do with the human rights of another human being. it would be racist, it would be misogynist, it would be unfair in every way. it would mean the pro life movement was the stupidest movement that ever lived and we should go away. but that is not the reality. the reality is that every single time a woman is pregnant or when most people say congratulations or what can i do to help or have a baby shower, in this instance they are not treated as equal human beings with equal moral status as you and i have. and therefore, we are talking about the care of two human beings every single time. and that's where the mercy and the compassion of the justice of this movement comes from. you keep talking about care, i guess the professionals who are most on the front line of care for pregnant women, they are

medical professionals, they are doctors, doctors say that they fear that mortality rates amongst pregnant women, that is maternal death rates are going to rise as a result of what is happening in the us today. let mejust quote to you one from texas professor in san antonio who says, "doctors whose patients develop pregnancy complications now are struggling to determine whether a woman is sick enough to justify an abortion. the art of medicine is lost and is actually being replaced by fear of. " yeah, the art of medicine i is enshrined in the hippocratic oath, which was changed just because abortion activists in the ways 60s decided it should. the hippocratic oath is do no harm, provide no potion that

would kill another human being, that is the origin and that morality, that fundamental pillar of medicine is the same and hasn't changed even if peoples minds have changed about what is actually happening. when they see pregnant women in deep trouble, in fear for their lives, facing death because of complications of pregnancy, the doctors have to pause now because they are so worried about the legal situation they find themselves in. two things that is, is a ridiculous lie when it comes to an actual doctor. you say doctors worry, well, doctors are not monolithic. doctors have... doctors who are true doctors are always looking to save the health and life of two people. so there's that responsibility on the part of a physician, the other piece is that doctors in the united states, certainly a portion of doctors who are aligning with the most extreme portions of this abortion fight on the left are completely and fully vested

in chaos right now. they want to make sure that everyone feels confused and that there's a political reaction. the reality is, there is no confusion for a real doctor. there is no confusion, there is well researched by our own institute and physicians that are independent all across the country, there is never a real reason, there is never a reason that requires the death of a child for the mother to live and have her own health. another symbolic case come to light in a recent case, that of a ten—year—old girl who was raped in ohio. she could not get an abortion in ohio because they've since the supreme court ruling, they've change the abortion laws, it would've been illegal. she had to be taken across state lines to indiana where a doctor was legally able

to give that ten—year—old child, who had been raped an abortion. and a very important figure in the anti—abortion movement said, that should not have happened. if he got he's way he said she would have had the baby and as many women who have had babies as a result of rape, we would hope that this child would understand the reason that she had to have the baby and ultimately she would benefit from having the child. do you share that view? here's what we don't know. we do not know, there is an exception in that state for medical necessity, we don't know the details of that. we may never know. but i want to point out something really important that you said before. and that was true care for the needs of people who are in dire situations. it's very possible she could have had that in that state. i honestly don't know and i don't think you know and i don't think anybody who's made a big issue of this also knows.

but i do know that hard cases make terrible law. and you don't base the laws of each state on a really horrible, heart rending case. well... but wait, let me finish the part of actual need of a woman who is living down by the river in a van with lots of kids are ready, she doesn't have a job, say she is underage, what are the needs that she has? abortion is not the panacea for every single lead in her life. her life is just like every body's life and that is complicated. there are reasons that she's gotten to this place, there's a reason that a mother would ever think about taking the life of her unborn child. and it's not because things are going well, it's because things are going badly. and if she needs that help, she decide concerned and the united states, i can't speak for the rest of the world but i can say this, the abortion movement in

the united states wants to give her a pill, and abortion, show her the door and say have a good life because they don't think that there's anything happening that matters during an abortion. it's the one thing you are not focusing on in this interview and i think it's not right and that is what happens in an abortion was up at any stage for that because in our country we weren't allowed untiljust recently, for 50 years to pass a law that would protect a child at any stage under roe versus wade. the privilege that you and your country have of democracy and working that out among citizens and leaders and elected representatives, we have not had for 50 years and now we do. just to continue with this particular case of the ten—year—old girl who was raped and who was pregnant and who ultimately got an abortion... i hope you're going to talk about her rapist and the creep that put her in the situation. is he could be part of this question as well? i hope. well, for all sorts of legal reasons, i'm not focused on him, i'm focused on the child whom, that's a problem. and what happened to this child. you say hard cases don't make, make for bad

law. i'm telling you that it seems to me this is a hard case because it raises very difficult questions about where you place priorities. where is your compassion, where is your morality? you, i think i'm right and saying, and forgive me for asking you a personal question, you are a mother and i believe you have a daughter, is that right? i have three daughters. you have three daughters. if god forbid, god forbid and it's a difficult question to put, little on answer but if that sort of situation concerned one of your daughters are you saying to me you absolutely would insist that your daughter carried that child to term and gave birth? let mejust... stephen, i bet if you have kids you don't talk them out on the air and if you ever did they probably told you to please stop doing that. so i'm not to talk about my children. let's say, let's don't. if i remember, there was somebody i knew that had been raped, somebody that i knew that had deep needs. the first thing i would do

is go after the creep that messed with her and forced her into a situation that she did not invite. then i would make sure she has the medical care she needs, the emotional care, the therapist that she needs to get beyond this point. and we would discuss then with her and not with you, what to do about the child is in her womb. we would discuss that. and so here's what i'm saying, you say there are hard cases make bad law doesn't matter because what you are asking is, where is my compassion, where is the compassion of the pro—life movement? the compassion of the pro—life movement in the united states has built almost 3,000 pregnancy centres around the country. the compassion of the pro—life movement in this country in every single state, even for 50 years when we weren't allowed any success has built a tremendous institution to address the needs of women and unborn children in every level of care. that's where the compassion is. and if you would ask one question about the

humanity of the child at any stage during pregnancy or if there's any point that you would protect a child where most people are having a baby shower and i think you would be doing the world a favour who watches this incredible show to start thinking about the balance or at least acknowledging the two that need help in every single problem pregnancy. i'm going to ask you want more personal question, if i may and then i do want to move onto the politics of of this. but the personal question is this, i'm very mindful that when you were a young woman, you were pro—choice, indeed on your college campus you were a leading voice in the republican support choice movement. 0bviously, since then you have made a 180 degrees turn. i'm just wondering whether that... and you talk about the reasons and the reality of what abortion means come up for you was it coming to a very devout catholic face that led to your complete reversal of position on abortion?

no. the first thing that happened was i got into a really strong debate was somebody on the other side about the humanity of a child. what that thing is, what literally happens in an abortion. is it the same as an appendectomy, the same as a tonsillectomy? is there a chance that that is a human being with an equal moral standing as yourself, at any stage during pregnancy. if there is a stage think about when that is and what that thing is in there. and my first thought was, "i cannot and should not and no one should take the chance that this is just like my friends didn't care in the room with me, someone with equal moral standing who deserves protection, " standing who deserves protection, just like i would go into a dark room and spray bullets around wondering if there is a person in there, you would do that it's too

important a decision. so that debate was not catholic or theological, i became a philosophy majorfor theological, i became a philosophy major for them and have a lot to do with intellectual. lateryes have a lot to do with intellectual. later yes my faith came part of what was i knew i didn't know everything and need to search a little more. but the first was a science of the philosophy behind it. bill science of the philosophy behind it.— behind it. all right. let's talk politics _ behind it. all right. let's talk politics now - behind it. all right. let's talk politics now for - behind it. all right. let's talk politics now for the | talk politics now for the decision be anthony organisation is committed to trying to achieve a political when for the anti—abortion movement on every level, from state to national politics. as a result of the supreme court ruling there are perhaps up to 20 states which are going to severely limit or completely ban abortion. of course there are many other states that for the moment at least are intent on keeping abortion legal. is it your and your movements intention to fight until abortion becomes entirely illegal right across the united

states? are you seeking to change federal law to get there? , ~ ., there? yes. we intend to fight until it's unnecessary - there? yes. we intend to fight until it's unnecessary and - until it's unnecessary and unthinkable in this country. we will always see to, every single time there is a problem pregnancy. there are two that need their lives protected and to that perhaps have needs that need to be addressed. 0n the state level, yes, you're right about your analysis, there are 20 states that right now it is very hard to see moving for a long time, think california, vermont, connecticut, illinois, places like that. so very clearly there is a federal role, we've had many votes on the federal level here in the united states about a 20 week limit. at least limit at 20 weeks. we are one of only seven nations in the world that fails to do that. we are in the company of north korea, china and others. we always get a majority vote. even if that

were past it would not have allowed to go into law because of roe versus wade. there will be a limit that makes sense, thatis be a limit that makes sense, that is consensus in every single state. do you think it's healthy... nw national consensus is welcome sorry. there probably won't be is it reality. it is profoundly and deeply polarised on this issue and abortion is become one of the most divisive political issues in your nation. do you think it's healthy that partly thanks to the millions of dollars you ploughed into republican campaigns that it is now impossible to be a pro choice republican politician? it is simply impossible now. it is impossible, as a pro—choice republican i hope so. that is for sure. republican i hope so. that is forsure. for50 republican i hope so. that is for sure. for 50 years we have not had the blessing of democracy to help form consensus in the station because of the roe versus wade decision. you had that, every

country in europe is how the united states. there is going to be a little bit of work to make up for 50 years of our opinion meetings nothing state—by—state. it is absolutely true that there will be consensus for 50 years of our opinion meetings nothing state—by—state. it is absolutely true that there will be consensus. in each state there will be consensus and it will be i want, likely not everything the pro—abortion movement wants for that it will be somewhere in the middle. consensus of the fruit of democracy. we have not had the fruit of engagement for almost 50 years. that is not to be underestimated what that is done to the moral fabric and the civility in this country so now we are just getting started. fix, now we are 'ust getting started.— now we are 'ust getting started. �* , . , ., started. a few years back on the show — started. a few years back on the show we _ started. a few years back on the show we interviewed - started. a few years back on the show we interviewed an | the show we interviewed an evangelical pastor who going back decades was one of the most extreme anti—abortion campaigners who would be picketing those abortion clinics, intimidating doctors and nurses who are working inside. he is now ashamed of

the anti—abortion movement. he points to all sorts of different ways in which is a shame for the violence and intimidation, the fact that cynical manoeuvres were used like paying the realjane roe to renounce her roe that abortion was legitimate. she then near death said that she only said that because of the money given by the abortion movement. even he says, mr schenk that is, even the way in which the christian anti—abortion movement signed a sort of faustian pact with donald trump, he said that was shaming two. do you have any sense of shame?— sense of shame? well, you'll notice i am — sense of shame? well, you'll notice i am not _ sense of shame? well, you'll notice i am not he _ sense of shame? well, you'll notice i am not he and - sense of shame? well, you'll notice i am not he and i - sense of shame? well, you'll notice i am not he and i am l sense of shame? well, you'll. notice i am not he and i am not a pastor. i'm not somebody who went from pro—life to pro—choice, perhaps because he was engaging those things that's all he saw. i don't know and i never knew him. i can say my own conversion came from authentic reasons out of love and justice not because i want to manipulate or anything. your

own country had similar motives of many in the pro—life movement here. that was in the midst of all sorts of discrimination and all sorts of refusing to see that speaking the truth to power is in important thing to do. so in the case of donald trump, the same. �* the case of donald trump, the same. ~ , ., the case of donald trump, the same. �* ,, . ~ the case of donald trump, the same. ~ ., ~ ., same. are you talking donald trum - , same. are you talking donald trump. are — same. are you talking donald trump. are you _ same. are you talking donald trump, are you putting - same. are you talking donald trump, are you putting your. trump, are you putting your money behind donald trump running in 24? i’m money behind donald trump running in 24?— running in 24? i'm still answering _ running in 24? i'm still answering the - running in 24? i'm still| answering the previous running in 24? i'm still- answering the previous question because i think it really does at the heart of what people who don't know pro—life people think. they think there is no way they can have an authentic opinion. there is no way you're going to actually think that there are two people in every problem abortion. there can't be that you actually believe in democracy and its ability to form consensus allow the consensus to make its way into the lodges save children and address the needs of women. but thatis

address the needs of women. but that is in fact the case. that's why it's an organic and growing movement in the united states and all over the world. you can call it inorganic and growing movement, the factors of all the millions you spent on us political action, hang on, let me finish this last point about the public opinion polls consistently and still after the supreme court ruling showed that a clear majority of americans disapprove of criminalising abortion and amongst woman the disapproval is at its highest, 67% and two thirds of women do not want to see abortion ban. does that give you pause?— see abortion ban. does that give you pause? no, i'm giddy that ou give you pause? no, i'm giddy that you actually _ give you pause? no, i'm giddy that you actually asked - give you pause? no, i'm giddy that you actually asked that i that you actually asked that question. because the polling that you just described has says nothing about where the consensus in majorities are. women don't... making the statement, what women do and do want in this country gives no credence to the idea that women even more than met want to stop

abortion around 15 weeks. women more than men, pro—choice women think it shouldn't be allowed after the first trimester. so when you say that they want to preserve roe versus wade it means there was a complete misunderstanding for a very long time about what it was. rove disallowed laws of women and... i rove disallowed laws of women and... , ., and... i 'ust wonder whether ou and... i just wonder whether you ever _ and... i just wonder whether you ever worry _ and... i just wonder whether you ever worry that - and... i just wonder whether you ever worry that you - and... i just wonder whetherj you ever worry that you have and... i just wonder whether i you ever worry that you have to be careful of what you wish for. you've made this abortion issue front and centre in the forthcoming midterm elections, probably in the presidential elections in 2020 for. if the polls continue to tell you that americans do not want to see row versus wade overturned and do want to see the right to abortion maintaining america... they don't. abortion maintaining america... they don't-— they don't. will suffer the consequences. _ they don't. will suffer the consequences. if - they don't. will suffer the consequences. if that - they don't. will suffer the | consequences. if that were they don't. will suffer the - consequences. if that were true or be super worried. it's literally not true. after poll, harvard poll a couple of weeks ago, 10% agree with the

position that this united states is set for the last 50 years. that means abortion up to the end paid for by taxpayers. 72% believe there should be a limit somewhere along the spectrum after the first trimester for most of the pets are getting everything i want. it certainly isn't what the pro—choice movement wants. what it means is that we can finally get to a place where we agree. in the meantime, we will serve many women, with a save the lives of many children and it again because it me? it will worry me if what you say is true. the good news is we have a great political moment to avail ourselves of elections and legislatures all of the country on the state and federal level and it's good news. ., , news. mar'orie dannenfelser, we have to news. marjorie dannenfelser, we have to end _ news. marjorie dannenfelser, we have to end there. _ news. marjorie dannenfelser, we have to end there. thank- news. marjorie dannenfelser, we have to end there. thank you - have to end there. thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk.

hello. sunday was another hot day in south east england and east anglia, temperatures up to 32 celsius in norfolk. you know in scotland and northern ireland it's been a weekend of torrential downpours in places and it will for monday be quite a few showers out there in what's going to be a blustery day. the area of low pressure has brought rain over the weekend, it is moving on toward scandinavia. as it moves away, around it bringing a cooler, fresher northwesterly flow into the uk, where it has been hot, temperatures have been set to come down. will still be quite a warm and humid start towards that southern and eastern parts, particularly as monday begins. we've got some rain in northern scotland, that's going to sink right through the southwards through scotland as a day go on, riding up behind it in the north with a few showers and in the afternoon the cloudier skies, the chance of rain pushes into northern england.

elsewhere, it's a story of scattered showers, a good deal of cloud during the first after the tending to brighten up into the afternoon and some places will become dry and fine to end the day. it will feel cooler, temperatures up to 10 degrees lower in eastern scotland compared to sunday, talking mid 20s in east anglia but that's a long way down for where we were on sunday. now, we continue with a few showers around going into monday evening but a lot of them are going to die out as we go through the night and into tuesday morning because we've got a ridge of high pressure just starting to edge in from the west. we've also got some lower temperatures overnight as well, actually, tuesday night will be even cooler still. on tuesday there will be a few sunny spells around, quite a bit of cloud, although we've got an area of high pressurejust nudging in from the west. they'll still be showers out there, scotland, northern ireland, perhaps down the eastern side of england and nowhere immune from catching a shower. notice how much temperatures have come down for belfast,

for manchester for glasgow, these temperatures are below average for the time of year. now the area of high pressure will moving across the uk for wednesday to thursday, a weak disturbance heading in from the southwest, it's here on wednesday, there could be one or two showers and always a chance for the odd shower here and there. but the emphasis will be on a lot of dry weather. starting with some sunny spells, the clouds tending to build during the day, although should brighten up again as we go towards sunset, very similar temperatures. towards the end of the week we will see a wetter weather system moving in for scotland and for northern ireland. for england and wales it looks mainly dry and in fact going into next weekend it will be turning warmerfor a time.

welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, i'm karishma vaswani. the headlines. as firefighters in california struggle to contain the latest huge wildfire. the us considers declaring a climate emergency. summers have become timer bunnies as people wonderjust how bad fires raging in the east of the state are going to get and politicians are being pressured to act. get and politicians are being pressured to act. russia admits it attacked the port of odessa — a day after an agreement to resume grain export — but its foreign minister denies they are to blame for causing a world food crisis. more than 20,000 police on duty ahead of the new president of the phillipine's state

of the nation address where large protests are expected.