tv Talking Business BBC News July 30, 2022 3:30pm-4:01pm BST
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in the russian—occupied part of the donetsk region, on friday, is a war crime. moscow has accused kyiv of killing the prisoners in a rocket strike. england's women train ahead of the biggest football match of their careers — preparing to take on germany in tomorrow night's euros final. match of their careers — preparing to take on germany now on bbc news... talking business— hello everyone. a warm welcome to talking business weekly with me aaron heslehurst. let's take a look at what is on the show. europe's energy crisis has green governments turning to fossilfuels. so, whatever renewable happened to renewables? why are solar, wind and hydrogen power not the answer governments turn to when they stop buying gas and oilfrom russia? i am going to be discussing all of that with these two, there they are. mike lynch from the energy policy research foundation. and professor dorte fouquet from the european renewable energies federation. also on the show, how did
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private health care do during the pandemic and how are they doing now? i have got the global boss of bupa talking covid, staff, brexit and the future. wherever you arejoining me from around the world, once again a big hello and warm welcome to the show. you know, it has been a record—breaking few weeks for temperatures in europe. wildfires have raged across mediterranean countries like spain, portugal, italy and greece. here in the uk, we had our hottest ever day on record. and yet, it is the coming winter that has been focusing minds, in particular how western europe and other parts of the world
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are going to keep warm amid the rising oil and gas crisis? following the russian invasion of ukraine and heavy sanctions on russia's oil and gas exports, which are to come in at the end of the year. president biden in the last few weeks was in saudi arabia and the middle east. while he didn't secure more oilfrom the country many think trying to do so was one of the reason for his visit. and in europe, the european commission has set out plans asking countries in the union to cut their gas by 15% until the spring. the plan was quickly endorsed by germany's economy minister, robert habeck. translation: i want to clearly stand behind the commission. _ it is a good proposal and it is the right proposal and the solidarity that we want to show among ourselves is also tied to everyone doing their part to save energy. and despite being from the country's green party, robert habeck also said that germany will be burning more coal to meet its energy demands. |translation: in addition to blacki
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coal, which has already been taken out of the reserve, we will also act to vate the brown coal reserves as of october the 1st to save gas by converting brown coal into electricity. so, energy rationing and using more fossil fuels looks like the strategy that western europe is going to take to tackle energy shock this winter. so, what does that mean for business? were we caught up with foreign with florian bockermann who owns a microbrewery in northern germany. this crisis is even bigger than the covid crisis, the second crisis in a row. the packaging prices for example, they rose and increased 200%. the buying prices increased by 30%, gas prices increased by 100%. so, we see a big increase in every part of our business. at the moment we have a big
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reduction in our margin. we tried to keep the prices as long as possible in that area that we are in now. but i think, there will be the time in the next month where we have to raise prices, up to five to 10% to survive. but, here's the question. where in all of this is renewable energy? with oil and gas supplies being an issue, why a country is turning to fossil fuels, which is against their own climate policies, instead of wind, solar and hydrogen, which of course are all better for the climate? in 2020 just over 1/5 of energy came from renewable sources. but consumption was low that year because of covid. and the eu admits that its target of 32%, or a one third of energy to come from renewables by the end of the decade will require massive transformation.
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so is that transformation possible? how long will it take? let's find out, because i have been speaking with a distinguished fellow from the energy policy research foundation. mike lynch, a pleasure to have you on the show. let's start with this, why are renewables not more of the conversation, or the solution in this current energy crisis? the big problem is that renewables are very expensive and they are not dispatchable. you cannot call up a wind turbine and say, give us more power, that power is either there or it isn't. so, when you want to have a surge capacity it is not going to be renewables because generally they operate all the time when they can. and if they are not operating it is because they can't. let me just clarify, what we are talking about it is an issue of capacity and the cost of storing renewable energy? yes, the cost of storing energy is phenomenal, people don't understand that. a battery, a a0 kilowatts battery
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costs about $5,000 and has about as much energy in it as $100 barrel of oil. this is why you do not have wide spread adoption of battery storage in utilities around the world. i am wondering is the problem of capacity likely to linger? i'm wondering won't investment in time and ambition, all of which politicians in europe and america say they have a renewable, won't that mean that it will solve these issues soon? well, you need back up because when the wind is not blowing, the sun is not shining you need another source of energy and storage, if it was cheap, everybody would be doing it. what they have been doing for years is using gas or coal plants, if you need more power you can turn it back on. as you have now in europe with this shortages of gas. but, when you add wind and solar, they're not going to be sitting idle in case
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of an emergency. they are going to be operating full time if they can. we face a current short—term shortage now but we are also facing a long—term problem, aren't we? climate change, what we are calling the climate emergency. surely, we have to solve these issues now. no, we don't need to solve them now. we have to make progress. people think of it is not solved instead it is more, are we reducing emissions? the problem is a lot of the plans are sort of, 0k. in 20 years we will have done all this. when we say, what you doing now? as we are saying, people want cheap energy and so what happens is people turn back to coal or gas. instead of saying, well let's spend $50 or $100 billion to add some more when term by and solar panels. and mike i am holding up my smartphone in this
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little phone can do much as a computer, which used to fill the entire room. why don't we think renewable technology won't progress on the same path? because electronics and chemistry are different in terms of what you can achieve. if wind turbines had advanced the way that computer chips had, you would have an inch high wind turbine that would power an entire city. but it doesn't work out that way. the car battery in a conventional car is 30% better than 20 years ago but the computer is like 3 million times better than 30 years ago. and our generation is very different to the younger generation, they are growing up with a climate sensitive attitude that would surely, surely that would make a difference in the long run, won't it? i think it'll make some difference
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but you are not finding a lot of people saying i want to spend 50% more on electricity to save the planet. this is a big problem and our was told that all nuclear power will solve all the worlds problems and out not to be true. and mike, i am wondering are the current goals if we look at europe, europe says it wants to save 32% energy from renewables by the end of the decade, may even more. are those goals realistic? i don't think so. the energy required would be enormous, the land use and the money. plus if we were to accelerate the buys of renewable equipment, you are going to drive the cost up. political goals usually have a half life of three orfour years. as people start to realise they're not coming close to meet them they tend to revise them down out into the future. we have been seen at the decade is an energy policy and environmental policy and many others. let me end on this, there is a lot of invested interest from traditional power companies, to current industry that would agree with you. is their power the thing
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that is holding back the renewable push? i don't think so for the most part. it varies by country and by industry but the point is you have a huge amount of investment in existing capacity, and when you say let's just tear that apart, knock it down, new power lines and so forth. that is a lot of money and you get consumer distance and that is well from the utility industry. thank you very much for your time. i will check in with you soon. take care. a sceptical view there from mike lynch, but what is the view from the renewable energy sector with the director of the european renewable energy confederation. thank you so much for your time, appreciate you coming on the show. let's start with this, we have seen a german economy minister from the green party say
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that they are going to burn more coal. why aren't renewables the answer in this current crisis? thank you for having me having me, it is a pleasure. my answer would be it is false what is the government is at that the movement doing is in crisis mode. naturally we, i am representing their renewable energy sector. we think the argument and logic should be turned around and say that we want much more renewables. and i would explain briefly that that was done as well. in order to get out of the crisis and show our backs to putin, we might for a very short period continue with these damaging energy sources. the ministerfrom the government came up with a package that is indeed increasing
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and giving a lot of momentum for more renewables. more wind, more power from solar power and etc. it is a line that is going ahead, but it is in line with the european agenda. i am wondering, is part of the problem technology, it is more difficult and expensive to store than it is to store coal or gas, so when you have an emergency like we are having, you can burn more coal but stored renewable energy. there needs to come from batteries, which are expensive? yes and no. first of all, the better the interconnection of regions and i'm not talking only within germany within europe, the interconnection of places which have different sort of renewable energies is already helping to balance the safety of the grid. that is the issue number one. on top, we need some storage
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and then you have to decide for different types. so we will have heat pumped into the earth and stored there we will have the pumped storage, with the partitions. but in a modern form. an online reactive hybrid storage system. and we will have other types of storage. but the best storage is our battery, is our grid, sorry. and it is also when we have more electric cars, they are the storage. when you park the car, you can use the battery for storage. the storage issue is not hindering us. we know we have seen a lot of political talk and ambitions to renewable energies. for example, the eu says it wants 32% of power from renewables by the end of the decade. even suggesting it may raise a target to a0%. but surely, we are a long way away
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from that, aren't we? yes we are still. to push them ahead is a really difficult struggle. and that is due to several reasons. the industry not wanting to change. it is a lot of mix of things. but we also have this good example of countries who have had good education legislation and have had private and good planning. in that they are not ideal. for example, my government, for my country we have eight years, when we didn't do enough. that is changing now. i think the most important thing now is clear legislation and clear rules. and also helping the industry and the citizens to do as much and hard
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vesting the renewable energy as a hospital. d0 vesting the renewable energy as a hosital. ,, , ., hospital. do you see that seriousness _ hospital. do you see that seriousness of _ hospital. do you see that seriousness of purpose l hospital. do you see that - seriousness of purpose when you hospital. do you see that _ seriousness of purpose when you talk to the authorities, planning regulators, etc. do they get it? yes, they get it. but sometimes they are in a squeeze between the interest of renewable energy and between nature protection organisations which have sometimes gone a bit overboard. that is why i like it that we have in the new legislative package, within europe as you said discussing the new renewable energy directors. but rolling out renewables is of extreme public importance. it might overrule some concerns from other part of interest. but that does not mean that would be for eternity, i could imagine a wind park in a nature protector zone in eight years. this
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means we should do it differently. but first of all we have to roll out if we do have planning permits, structures all over europe. which can see a certain tack to it, saying first of all, you can roll out but we might have to review it. do you think a new _ we might have to review it. do you think a new younger _ we might have to review it. do you think a new younger generation, . we might have to review it. do you i think a new younger generation, who are more focused on the climate emergency, do you think they will hold politicians to account? yes. emergency, do you think they will hold politicians to account?- hold politicians to account? yes. i am older here _ hold politicians to account? yes. i am older here and _ hold politicians to account? yes. i am older here and i _ hold politicians to account? yes. i am older here and i can _ hold politicians to account? yes. i am older here and i can say - hold politicians to account? yes. i am older here and i can say that l hold politicians to account? yes. i. am older here and i can say that we need them to invigorate and to say, please deliver. we have them on board and that is good. i please deliver. we have them on board and that is good.— board and that is good. i have to ask ou board and that is good. i have to ask you this. _ board and that is good. i have to ask you this, what _ board and that is good. i have to ask you this, what do _ board and that is good. i have to ask you this, what do you - board and that is good. i have to ask you this, what do you say i board and that is good. i have to ask you this, what do you say to | board and that is good. i have to . ask you this, what do you say to the sceptics who say this is just too difficult, changes you are suggesting or talking about is so radical that they just won't happen? it is not radical. it's really not radical. it is already happening. who would invest in anything else
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than renewables as a fund, as an energy? i can tell you that i have the figures for germany, i look at the figures for germany, i look at the last numbers. we do have now the share of renewable energy in the energy consumption is at 20% and in electricity it's over a0%. and we have no blackouts or anything and we don't have a lot of extra storage. in europe we do have 22% of the european union is already covered by renewables. and as we said within the european union. at least, it's getting there and some people have missed the boat. they are stubborn in clinging to fossil technology. that is business models that they should have foreseen that it will
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not fly for much longer. i am wondering. _ not fly for much longer. i am wondering, the _ not fly for much longer. i am wondering, the invasion - not fly for much longer. i am wondering, the invasion of. not fly for much longer. i am wondering, the invasion of ukraine has that helped or hindered the push towards renewables? it has has that helped or hindered the push towards renewables?— has that helped or hindered the push towards renewables? it has created a difficult situation. _ towards renewables? it has created a difficult situation. i— towards renewables? it has created a difficult situation. i would _ towards renewables? it has created a difficult situation. i would rather- difficult situation. i would rather not have putin shooting at innocent people and are invading territories which are not russia in order to get renewables off the ground. that is why have problems in answering that question. but the answer we have the sanctions, we need them, 0k. question. but the answer we have the sanctions, we need them, ok. but the answer is all we have to tell... and i think now we pay a lot, we pay the storage. but there is an end to it. and the fact that we get renewables off the ground, especially in the lazier countries, the better. fin lazier countries, the better. on that note, _ lazier countries, the better. on that note, dorte fouquet thank you
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very much fur coming on the show. if we ever needed a reminder about the importance of health and health care, the pandemic certainly provided it. bupa, a uk—based private company providing and care for the elderly. it says 31 million companies in a range of companies from australia to turkey. so, how did it cope with the pandemic? and how is it coping from the fallout from covid, from staffing to supply chains to ukraine. i caught up with the big boss of the group. a pleasure having you on the show, let's start with the war in ukraine, because within ten days of the russian invasion of ukraine, you announced it was ending all relationships with russian businesses. and you are one of the first global corporate is to make such an announcement.-
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first global corporate is to make such an announcement. yes, thank you for sa int such an announcement. yes, thank you for saying that — such an announcement. yes, thank you for saying that because _ such an announcement. yes, thank you for saying that because it _ such an announcement. yes, thank you for saying that because it is _ such an announcement. yes, thank you for saying that because it is true. - for saying that because it is true. we believe big corporations need to have a voice and express that voice it is what we did. but it's not the only have a voice and express that voice it is what we did. but it's not the only thin have a voice and express that voice it is what we did. but it's not the only thin- that have a voice and express that voice it is what we did. but it's not the only thin- that we have a voice and express that voice it is what we did. but it's not the only thin- that we have have a voice and express that voice it is what we did. but it's not the only thin- that we have done. have a voice and express that voice it is what we did. but it's not the only thing that we have done. we have also four example set up a complete health pathway for ukrainian refugees in poland. the invasion was on a wednesday and on the friday hour centre that we prepared to support ukrainian refugees was already handling one 100 calls. we have completed 180,000 procedures coming from refugees in poland. we have also in our hospitals, we have already done 1600 procedures or 1000 ukrainian refugees. 0n procedures or 1000 ukrainian refugees. on top of that we have hired 165 ukrainian health professionals to take care of their own refugees. we have declared, we
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are very happy to invest. we will be here until we are needed. mi are very happy to invest. we will be here untilwe are needed.— here untilwe are needed. all that treatment you _ here untilwe are needed. all that treatment you gave _ here untilwe are needed. all that treatment you gave the _ here untilwe are needed. all that treatment you gave the refugees, here until we are needed. all that i treatment you gave the refugees, is that free of charge? it is treatment you gave the refugees, is that free of charge?— that free of charge? it is free of chart e that free of charge? it is free of charge for _ that free of charge? it is free of charge for them. _ that free of charge? it is free of charge for them. that _ that free of charge? it is free of charge for them. that is - that free of charge? it is free of charge for them. that is being i charge for them. that is being funded by us. charge for them. that is being funded by us-_ charge for them. that is being funded b us. , ., ~ ., ., funded by us. lets talk about covid, so many businesses _ funded by us. lets talk about covid, so many businesses were _ funded by us. lets talk about covid, so many businesses were affected. | so many businesses were affected. beyond that, you are a health business, adapting to the pandemic was obviously core to what you do. i am wondering which country was the hardest for how you had to adapt your services?— hardest for how you had to adapt your services? probably spain and poland because _ your services? probably spain and poland because in _ your services? probably spain and poland because in spain _ your services? probably spain and poland because in spain and - your services? probably spain and i poland because in spain and poland we had a lot of provision services like hospitals and clinics and in both countries we were declared as part of the solution for covid. so probably in those two places, we could have learnt a lot as you can imagine, through these years. for
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me, 'ust imagine, through these years. for me, just briefly explain, how did you adapt your services? what took place? for you adapt your services? what took lace? ., ., , ,, ., place? for example, in spain what we did is we campaigned _ place? for example, in spain what we did is we campaigned hospitals - place? for example, in spain what we did is we campaigned hospitals in - did is we campaigned hospitals in our parking slots, the whole thing was to have two avenues. it's called the clean avenue, people without covid, and the covid avenue, for people with covid. and if our patient needed to be, to stay in the hospital there was a specific pathway to them to go into the rooms. some of the rooms were blocked only for covid purposes. the idea here was to preserve all of the other people that had existing episodes, existing illnesses that we had to take care of. this was just one example, we have a few. brute had to take care of. this was 'ust one example, we have a few. we know we continue — one example, we have a few. we know we continue seeing _ one example, we have a few. we know we continue seeing a _ one example, we have a few. we know we continue seeing a global— one example, we have a few. we know we continue seeing a global staff - one example, we have a few. we know we continue seeing a global staff so . we continue seeing a global staff so shortage all across the world in all
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industries. where are you most feeling the pinch in terms of staff shortages? brute feeling the pinch in terms of staff shortates? ~ . feeling the pinch in terms of staff shortages?— feeling the pinch in terms of staff shortates? ~ . , ' ., ., shortages? we are suffering all of these inflation _ shortages? we are suffering all of these inflation pressures. - these inflation pressures. translated into staff shortages, and also the fact that there is staff shortages because of covid. so, we suffered as any other industry dead. today, we are in a much better place. this morning i was talking to our ceo in the uk who was telling me the numbers of infected patients and it's still going down. it's a much lower number than it was in the past. so we are still there but we are seeing better numbers now. find are seeing better numbers now. and as we know. — are seeing better numbers now. and as we know, britain where your headquarters are. left the european unionjust a few headquarters are. left the european union just a few weeks before the first covid lockdown in 2020. what impact hasn't had on staffing here
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in the uk? ., , , ., _, , in the uk? now this is nothing comes ve clear, in the uk? now this is nothing comes very clear. to — in the uk? now this is nothing comes very clear. to be _ in the uk? now this is nothing comes very clear, to be honest. _ in the uk? now this is nothing comes very clear, to be honest. we thought| very clear, to be honest. we thought at the beginning we were going to lose nurses. but we haven't lost that many, to be honest. but lose nurses. but we haven't lost that many, to be honest.- lose nurses. but we haven't lost that many, to be honest. but in a written submission _ that many, to be honest. but in a written submission to _ that many, to be honest. but in a written submission to the - that many, to be honest. but in a written submission to the uk - written submission to the uk parliament your company said it had long—standing workforce challenges which were before the pandemic, so things were tough pre—covid and pre—brexit. do you think ultimately, this might apply worldwide, that you need to find a technical solution to staffing shortages? even suggested use of robots. 5taii staffing shortages? even suggested use of robots-— use of robots. staff shortages, robabl use of robots. staff shortages, probably we — use of robots. staff shortages, probably we are _ use of robots. staff shortages, probably we are suffering - use of robots. staff shortages, probably we are suffering at i use of robots. staff shortages, l probably we are suffering at the myself at this before and today. but if you asked me whether the main reason is brexit i would, i can't say that. it's probably more because of inflation cast, and also people have been sick. the robots today and
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health, robots are being used for some surgeries. there is a robot that we have in many places they can help with many different things. today we do not have robots substituting people. idat today we do not have robots substituting people. not today. do ou see a substituting people. not today. do you see a future _ substituting people. not today. do you see a future in _ substituting people. not today. do you see a future in that? _ substituting people. not today. do you see a future in that? while - substituting people. not today. do you see a future in that? while we| you see a future in that? while we are always — you see a future in that? while we are always checking _ you see a future in that? while we are always checking what - you see a future in that? while we are always checking what is - are always checking what is happening so, if there is a point where that make sense, but we don't see it happening very soon to be honest. ~ ., ., ., ., ,, , ., honest. well on that note, thank you so much for— honest. well on that note, thank you so much for your _ honest. well on that note, thank you so much for your time. _ honest. well on that note, thank you so much for your time. much - so much for your time. much appreciated, good luck with everything and i would what you soon. . ~' everything and i would what you soon. . ~ i. everything and i would what you soon. . ~ ., ., everything and i would what you soon. ., ~' , ., ., ., that soon. thank you for having me. that is it for this — soon. thank you for having me. that is it for this week _ soon. thank you for having me. that is it for this week so _ soon. thank you for having me. that is it for this week so don't _ soon. thank you for having me. that is it for this week so don't forget - is it for this week so don't forget you can get all the updates on the war in ukraine and the impact it is having on our economy on the bbc
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website, you can also follow me on twitter. you can get me at bbc aaron. thank you for watching, goodbye. good afternoon. a bit of a messy weather picture out there today. many of us have started cloudy, but there are some breaks in the cloud. there's some sunshine and some warmth across the south coast. as you can see from bournemouth earlier on, it's feeling quite muggy out there. but further north and west the cloud has been thick enough for some patchy light rain today. this was cumbria just a few hours ago and if we take a look at the satellite and the radar combined, you can see how extensive the cloud is and how fragmented, but a bit of a nuisance. that rain is pushing its way steadily eastwards, never really getting into the south east corner
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and a brighter afternoon in scotland. but here noticably fresher, particularly on those exposed west coast. we're looking at 1a to 20 degrees, highest values in the sunshine peaking at 25 celsuis. that's 77 fahrenheit. now, as we go through the evening and overnight, there's more cloud and outbreaks of rain to come pushing in across wales, the southwest eventually moving its way through the midlands through the early hours of sunday morning. it's going to stay on the muggy side, temperatures into the mid to high teens for many across england and wales. but that weather front will gradually sink its way steadily south and east. it might bring a little bit of welcome rain across the south east corner. don't get too excited. not everyone will see but there is the risk of a few scattered showers, easing away during sunday. a fair amount of cloud across england and wales with the best of the sunshine. further north and west, temperatures ranging from 1a to 26 once again. now that bodes well for the euros final that's going to be
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taking place at wembley. if we do see a little bit of rain, it will ease away and it's still going to be warm and predominantly dry. now, as we move out of sunday into monday, more weather fronts starting to push in from the atlantic. but once again, it doesn't look likely that we're going to see that much in the way of useful rain in areas that are desperately starting to need it now. so southern and eastern areas on monday, starting off dry with some sunshine, there'll be a good deal of sunshine across eastern scotland as well, clouding over from the west with that frontal system gradually starting to push in and the winds will increase. still warm ahead of it with 26 degrees the high, but the rain looks likely to continue to be a feature. further north and west on tuesday stays dry, sunny and warm again further south.
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this is bbc news, i'm martine croxall. the headlines at ltpm. police investigating the death of nine—year—old lilia valutyte have made an arrest. a22—year—old man on suspicion of murder. we'll be hearing from officers shortly. widespread disruption to train services throughout the uk as drivers from seven operators walk out over pay. the british ambassador to ukraine has called for an investigation into an explosion at a prison in the country's east, in which dozens of ukrainian prisoners of war were killed. and pope francis has said he may need to consider stepping down and would do so, if his health meant that he could not serve in the way he should. england's women train ahead of the biggest football match of their careers — preparing to take on germany in tomorrow night's euros final. and at the commonwealth games, england'sjohnboy smith wins
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