this is bbc news. the headlines — president biden has confirmed, in a live televised address, that the al-qaeda leader, ayman al—zawahiri, has been killed in a us drone strike in kabul. mr biden said al—zawahiri was one of the organisers of the 9/11 attacks on the us, and that his death would bring closure to families of the victims. the speaker of the us house of representatives, nancy pelosi, is expected to visit taiwan, as part of her tour of asia. that's according to several american and taiwanese media reports, although there is no official confirmation on this yet. china has warned of serious consequences if the trip to the self—ruled island goes ahead. an international study says that the risks of a climate

change catastrophe, including human extinction, are not being taken seriously by scientists. now on bbc news, it's time for hardtalk with zeinab badawi. welcome to hardtalk with me, zeinab badawi. i'm at the firstsite gallery, in colchester, in the east of england. my guests are the contemporary artists, the singh twins, who have a major exhibition of their work here. the singh twins combine their dual british and indian heritage to make provocative art that has a strong political message. but sometimes, do these two traditions collide?

singh twins, welcome to hardtalk. now, you were born in england, but you took a trip for the first time to india when you were teenagers in 1980, and that's when you were first exposed to indian miniature paintings. you describe that as a turning point in your lives — why? well, the trip to india was a turning point in our lives for a couple of reasons, really. we were born and brought up in britain. we were aware of our indian heritage, but i don't think we really felt so deeply attached to it until we went to india and we had the opportunity to travel around india and experience that culture in all its diversity, and we really connected with that. and as part of that interest in our heritage, we also came across the style of painting called indian miniature painting, which is a very detailed, exquisite style of artwork, full of satire and symbolism and narrative.

and that was the style that we both adopted as ourformal artistic language. and it was something that really set us off on ourjourney as professional artists. because, originally, you both wanted to become doctors, like your father, but then your artistic talent was identified quite early and he was very supportive in just letting you do what you want. ok, so you've created a unique genre in british art, highly decorative, there's the narrative, it's very symbolic at times. you describe it with this phrase that you've coined, "past—modern." what do you mean by that? well, that phrase really goes back to our days at university when we were studying combined studies degree. and as part of that, there was an art history course, western art history. and it became quite clear to us in that course that anything historical, including the work that we were inspired by, the indian miniature painting tradition, was seen as not worthy, not of any value, especially within contemporary

art expression. and there was this idea of kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, that anything that's in the past, you know, we have to leave there and we have to keep moving on and creating new, diverse works. and we didn't subscribe to that at all. we believe that tradition has a value in contemporary life and we try to reflect that through our artwork. we've always tried to maintain that there's always going to be a connection between the past and the present. you know, we are who we are today because of the history. but isn't that the case that all art, really, be it asian, african, european, contemporary art draws on the past? that's exactly... it's eclectic. that's exactly the case, but the experience that we had at university, because we were developing a style of art that was rooted in this very ancient tradition of indian miniature painting, was really looked down upon by our tutors, and they basically said it was backward and outdated and had no place within contemporary art. and we really set out to challenge that because the course we were studying was western art, western contemporary art development.

and of course, you know, it's well known that people like matisse and gauguin, picasso, were inspired by art forms outside of the western canon — africa, japan, tahiti. and i think, with our work, what we wanted to do was challenge the hypocrisy of what we were experiencing. because at the same time we were being taught that the be all and end all of being an artist was this, you know, this wonderful sort of self—expression. and then we were being told, well, no, you can't express yourself in that way. and you certainly can't look outside the western canon of art for your personal language. and one examiner apparently, reportedly, said, "give them a 2:2," which is at the lower end of a degree mark. and he said, "they won't mind because they'll soon be in an arranged marriage." yes, well... how did that make you feel? well, angry, of course, because it's one of those cultural presumptions and stereotypes that we've grown up with all our lives, you know, and this expectation...

i mean, even from a school point of view, it's the same question one of our teachers asked us. she took us to one side, towards the end of the kind of a—level, the a—levels were coming to the end. and she sat us down and she said, "twins, do you really want to get "an arranged marriage when you leave school?" and we had had no discussions with her whatsoever. it wasn't even on our agenda. but they had this mindset that, you know, all asian parents, they don't want their kids to do art, they want to force them into arranged marriages. and there's all these stereotypes that are also coming through the media, too, which i feel, you know, it made young asians growing up in britain feel ashamed of their heritage and their culture. and so that's why a lot of our early work was about celebrating our traditional identity, punjabi identity, not... obviously, we were born and brought up here, and we're very proud to be british, but we do have that other side to our identity, too. but do you honestly think you can tackle racism and try to overturn stereotypical prejudices through art? art is a very powerful

medium of communication, we feel, and i think it's also a very accessible way of engaging people with very difficult subjects, things that they wouldn't want to pick up a book and read, or perhaps would turn the television off when current affairs come on television. but art has a way, i think, of really capturing people's attention, and particularly the kind of work that we do, which is very narrative and detailed and symbolic and really talks to audiences on many different levels. all right, so you've got a mission. you're on a mission through your art. we are on a mission, yes! you are, ok, so you've put together this wonderful exhibition called slaves of fashion. it took you about four years to do that, and it explores hidden narratives, as you see it, of empire, colonialism, conflict and slavery, through the lens of india's historical textile trade. and at the heart of this exhibition are 11 digital fabric artworks, displayed on light boxes, each highlighting a different theme. and one that i found very striking is the one that's called indigo, and that looks at the roots of the fabric denim, famously made injeans. and you've got the empress, who... mumtaz mahal.

yeah, mumtaz, the empress mumtaz, who died in the 1630s. and she's wearing these denim jeans. so what's the, what's the idea behind this particular piece? well, i mean, all of the artworks were inspired by, to a certain extent, historical collections in national museums liverpool. and as part of our research, we were looking at different objects and seeing how we could tie into the history of indian textiles. so we came across this pair of blue jeans, which were locally— made by a brand in liverpool, and just trying to make those connections. we were thinking, well, obviously they were blue—coloured, and we were wondering, you know, today, does the industry use indigo or indian indigo to dye the jeans? and as part of that research, it uncovered the history of denim itself, which, of course, jeans are made from, and the fact that this denim fabric apparently originated back in the 1600s in a little village called dongri, near bombay, in india a fishing village...

today is mumbai. mumbai, of course, sorry. and, you know, it was the fabric that was used by the fishing villagers and then adopted by visiting sailors, you know, the italians and all the other people that were coming to india to trade, and they started making trousers out of them. so it was a way for us... so you get the word dungarees from dongri. of course, sorry, yes, yes. the village of dongri, that's where the word dungarees comes from. and so it was a perfect way for us to really demonstrate this idea of cultural, or questioning cultural ownership and heritage. because, i mean, lots of people look at us, we choose to wear our traditional indian clothing and a lot of people judge us on that. and judge us as backward and outdated because we're not wearing western clothes. it seems to us that, you know,

this idea of "west is best" has always kind of perpetrated society and it's kind of a hangover of the raj. and we wanted to challenge that because, when you look at people wearing jeans, it's seen as a very western garment, a very kind of contemporary, modern garment. but having this link back to 16th—century india kind of throws that all on its head. it's kind of, how contemporary are the clothes that you wear? you know, there's always that connection with history. and that's a common theme throughout this exhibition. i mean, the paisley print, which we think of today, as being very british, actually, through your exquisite miniature paintings and so on, you show that actually that's very deeply rooted in the indian tradition. so do you feel that your aim there is to try to show how india was so influential on western european fashions? our aim is really to show how india was influential on global fashions, of course, but it's deeper than that. it's also about showing how we're all connected through this common history and how we shouldn't make assumptions about who owns that history and how we relate to that history, too. because someone looking

at a paisley shawl in england may not necessarily feel they're connected to india, but when they understand the history of that little motif, then there is definitely a link back, which they can identify with. but there's also relevance to the sort of modern challenges that we see today. so, for example, in this exhibition, you say, if you care about the environment and you care about human rights, then you should really care about what you're putting in your shopping basket, too. because your exhibition, particularly about the pursuit of the acquisition of luxury goods, raises questions about how we consume and the question of ethics. that's right. well, the slaves of fashion series is very much about the history of empire through textiles and the slaves of fashion title, if you like, is making that clear link. but it's also looking at how we as consumers are tied into this lifestyle of materialism without necessarily thinking of the consequences

of what we're buying into, who suffers down the supply chain, and the story of the empire and colonial period is also about this link between trade and enslavement and consumerism. so we try to make that link very clear within the work, but also show how that is an ongoing relevance today. you know, we think of slavery as something of the past very often. many of us think that, "oh, what a terrible period in our history." but actually, if we look around us today, there's a similar kind of labour exploitation and environmental exploitation linked to the products that we all buy into so that consumerism and the human and environmental cost of that is a very clear message. it runs throughout the whole exhibition too. and the very clear message that runs out through the whole exhibition also is a lot about conflict. i mean, perhaps less about celebration. and i know that's a theme that you explore very much in your work.

so one very prominent work is called entwined, which looks at the indian mutiny of 1857 when there was this uprising by indians against increasing british control, you know, brutally suppressed, and it resulted in direct british rule of india. why is it important for you to try to bring this perspective of this particular aspect? well, again, it's linking, it's the past—modern thing. it's linking the past to how that is relevant to us today, how the past impacts on today. so trade has always been connected with conflict. as long as you can remember, you know, people building empires was about conquering other lands and acquisition of resources, at the end of the day, and controlling those resources. and nothing much has really changed. if you look at modern day conflicts, they're always tied into somebody somewhere making a lot of money, basically. modern—day culture. i'll tell you what the british artist grayson perry, who's a great admirer of your work, has said. he said, "the singh twins combine traditions from both

eastern and western art to make provocative and sharply political work. " so just looking at contemporary challenges today, i mean, this picture behind me, for example, you have a british indian nurse on a horse and she's slaying the covid dragon. and you're referring there quite directly to the fact that we know in the uk so many people of south asian descent were instrumental in treating people who got covid. so again, is that political message very important for you to make because you feel that it's something that's not properly appreciated ? well, our work has always looked at issues of the relationship between culture and identity

and politics. and we're particularly interested in exploring that, because we hope that the messages that we convey do enable people to view the world around them in slightly different ways. so this idea of the contribution of the, you know, the black, asian and minority communities to the national health system, which is something that came out very clearly during the covid pandemic, also links into debates about migration and particularly, you know, kind of the histories of brexit, for example, you know? a campaign that was very much run on the idea of where immigrants stand within this country. and there was a section of the community that felt that the immigrants were not of value to our british society when, in actualfact, you know, just that one example of how they contributed to, you know, kind of keeping... described, i think, in the media at the time as being the backbone of the nhs and the health care sector, very clearly puts a different light on that particular issue of immigration and where migrants stand and how they contribute to our society. but that's something that's

always been the case through history as well. so making that link, in the same artwork, we have britannia sitting on the horizon and it's making that link again to the past history of empire and how, you know, our country today was built on the backs of peoples from other countries who were colonised under british rule. who were often looked upon as not having any place here, that they don't belong here, but they clearly have contributed. let me tell you what the british asian writer sathnam sanghera has said on this programme when he was a guest, and he says, "there's no more thorny subject than empire in britain." it's a long quote, but i'll say it to you. "the british empire," he says, "is at the centre of a culture war between left and right, in which whatever your intentions, you get drawn into the question of whether it was good or bad. "this balance sheet view of history is asinine history, and the people who made it were complicated." we see our artwork as very much redressing what we feel is the imbalance in the way that colonial history is taught. there are many kind of stories

out there that come through from the days of empire which are showing positive elements. people think about it as this benevolent force for good. you know, you takejust a really common example, of britain gave india the railways, for example. well, actually, you know, they didn't give them the railways. they were built off the backs of indians, through indian taxes. and they were there really to benefit the british empire because they were used to kind of transport goods and military personnel and keep the empire ticking over. so what we've tried to do through our work is redress the balance of how the colonial histories have been taught. and necessarily that involves trying to uncover a lot of the hidden, darker sides of what that history was about. but you also... ok, you look at empire and trying to, as you say, bring your perspective. but in looking at contemporary issues as well, for example, there's the picture of trump there behind you as a kind

of devil, that that picture's called get off our necks, referring, of course, to the murder of george floyd. you've got a picture of tony blair, former british prime minister, and president george bush, about the iraq war. and tony blair is standing on a poodle because you're saying there that he was a poodle to the americans, and there's a thieving magpie and so on. there's so much going on in your work, and sally shaw, director of this gallery, firstsite, has said, "it's a fantastic show. it's for everybody. it covers geography, history, fashion, textiles, and it's a beautiful—looking show." but are you trying to do too much? i don't think we try to do too much. i think we try to get people to think in different ways. there'sjust so much going on. i understand what you're saying. there's a lot to take in, there is, and we do deal with a lot of diverse issues and narratives. but for us as artists, it's about communicating to as many people as possible and showing those interconnections between past,

between present, between history, identity, culture. that's what makes humanity what it is. we're not this defined kind of monolithic existence or experience or single history. and we've always been fascinated by history and those links and the connection between past and present. and we're simply trying to convey that through our work. but also because, you know, how we view the past does have an impact on the present. we talked about the particular work behind us, which is looking at the history of racism in america. it has a very clearly defined link back to the colonial history of america and its involvement in the enslavement of africans. you can't ignore that. and it is a story which crosses over those boundaries between trade, between consumers and between conflict, luxury kind of lifestyle, and perceptions of east and west... ..east and west, as well. you pick up on the issue of sugar and slavery and other commodities. we can't get away from that, and that's what our work is trying to connect with. you also say your work is to celebrate the duality of your identities — british and also asian, indian, sikh.

so, do they come into conflict at times? because just looking at your pictures and paintings, it seems as though there is a bit of a collision. oh, well, we don't see a collision at all. i think we've grown up with... i mean, as artists, our work is very eclectic. people will see that we draw on so many different cultures — you know, western and eastern cultures. and from a personal perspective, you know, we grew up in a very white—dominated community where we were, there was almost this expectation that we should have this conflict between, are we indian or are we british, orare we english or indian? and it never occurred to us, we've never had a conflict. you know, we went to a catholic convent school and we threw ourselves into the life of going to mass every friday. and there was no conflict with our sikh identity because,

you know, we're all, you know, we're all praying to the same god. there was no conflict at all. we've always embraced our different identities and i think we have more than even two identities. as i say, we really have been inspired by so many different areas of world culture. but however, in 2011, when you were both awarded the mbe, the medal of the british empire, here you are with your views about empire and colonialism. and we've had prominent ethnic minority britons like benjamin zephaniah, the british caribbean poet, who has said, "i'm not accepting one of these awards. it's got e, which stands for empire in it." you were jolly proud when you received it, as your family were too, and so excited about going to buckingham palace and seeing the queen award you these empire, these medals. how do you justify that? well, we were very proud to receive an mbe, and it is a discussion that we had when we were first invited to accept this, because obviously we were aware

of the nature of our work and we had to try and tally that with the integrity of what we're, we're saying. and really, we decided to accept the mbe because we felt it really validated what we were trying to achieve as artists, which was trying to change the mind—set within how contemporary art is defined and evaluated. going back to our experience of the prejudice that we experienced, you know, from a position of being told that your work is absolutely worthless, backward, outdated, has no place in contemporary art, simply because it's drawing on an ancient indian tradition, to then being offered an award, you know, a very public kind of... recognition. ..statement of recognition for your services to contribution to contemporary art, was to us notjust showing ourselves, but it's a public statement showing that it is possible to change mind—sets about culture and identity and how those are evaluated. so it was within that context that we were very pleased to accept it. and now, one thing i want to ask you is — your work is always credited to the singh twins, even if only one of you has done, has made the work, or has worked on it predominantly. and i think it takes

you anything between... 50 hours to 1,000 hours. so a lot of work goes into it. but is that fair, though, that you have this joint credit? what do you mean by fair? i mean, is it honest? if one of you has made it and the credit is both of you. it's very honest because we present ourselves as a united front, as one artist, and our, our kind of, our goals in life as artists, we have a kind of common goal as artists, and it really goes back to us challenging this whole identity of individualism, this concept of individualism that we have in the west. but also the way that we create our work, although the physical creation of it can sometimes be mine or hers, if you like, before that even starts, there's always a period of in—depth research, and that's something that we collectively do together. we pool our ideas and we kind of share the information between us.

so there are elements of the work which is a collaborative process that is not necessarily linked to the physical production, but what goes on before that too. we often use each other as soundboards as well, so we might be working side by side on our own works. but there's always, you know, looking over the shoulder of what each other are doing, and very often constructive criticism, you know, going between us. so we never really consider the works as individual in that sense either. finally, it's very clear that you want to make a difference to what people perceive about various issues. you want to provoke debate about your work, about various topics. but look, you are fantastic artists. your work is exquisite, the vibrancy of the colour and so on. why can't people just appreciate your art and not have to be bombarded with lots of political messages? we'd be very pleased for people to appreciate our workjust based on the aesthetics alone. i mean, we love the idea that,

when people look at our work, they do relate to it in different ways. not everybody wants to go into the in—depth narratives and histories and politics, which is fine. you know, we would love people to be able to take what they can from our work on whatever level they like, even if it's just aesthetically pleasing to them. that would be just as brilliant. singh twins, thank you very much indeed for coming on hardtalk. you're very welcome, thank you. thank you for inviting us. of course, july 2022 will be remembered for the first time the uk saw temperatures widely in excess of a0 celsius. however, it's also been a very dry month — and in southern england, it's been the driestjuly

on record — those records date back to 1836 by the met office. now, anywhere in the brown has seen below—average rainfall, but the darker brown�*s way below the average rainfall totals for this time of year, and 1—2 stations along the south coast have not seen any measurable rain. now, if you can see over the next few days, we won't see any rainfall either across the far south and east. the heaviest of the rain will be out to the north and west — that's because you're closest to an area of low pressure that's moving in at the moment. the isobars squeezing together, it'll turn pretty windy, and it will be quite wet as well. so that means it could be a pretty damp start for the commonwealth games in birmingham, but quickly brightening up by lunchtime, so an improving story. and that will be the story generally across the country. some heavy bursts of rain across northwest england and wales drifting their way steadily eastwards. the rain never getting as far south, really, as the south midlands, and then behind it, brightening up with 1—2 showers.

a strong south—westerly wind as we go through the day — so blustery, but from a very warm source. it'll feel once again quite humid across the country — 2a celsius in eastern scotland, highs of 30 celsius perhaps in southeast england — that's the mid—80s fahrenheit. now, as we go through the evening and overnight, there's another frontal system that will sink its way south, just really a band of cloud and a few scattered showers, can you see, stretching from hull down to the bristol channel. again, it stays very warm, so a humid start to wednesday morning. that frontal system — a weak affair, a band of cloud, a few isolated showers — continues to sink south. but behind, it's introducing fresher air as the winds here come round to a northwesterly. so more showers being driven in by that northwesterly wind, and temperatures down a few degrees. not so in the far southeast, as that fresher air hasn't quite yet arrived, but it will do so. the northwesterly wind direction continues to dominate for a few days. high pressure then builds in from the west, quietens things down.

so, over the next few days, it's dry, settled, and sunny, but just that little bit fresher.

this is bbc news. i'm sally bundock, with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. president biden confirms the head of al-qaeda, ayman al—zawahir, has been killed by a us drone strike in kabul. he made videos, including in recent weeks, calling for his followers to attack the united states and our allies. now, justice has been delivered, and this terrorist leader is no more. al—zawahiri had previously been 0sama bin laden�*s number two, and was deeply involved in the 9/11 attacks on the united states in 2001. one of america's most senior politicians, nancy pelosi, is now expected to visit taiwan on tuesday, putting further strains on relations with china.