welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. there are some human experiences which most of us find very hard to get our heads around. my to get our heads around. my guest today experienced the unimaginable torment of more than four decades in solitary confinement in

a tiny cell in one of america's most notorious prisons. albert woodfox was the victim of ingrained racism and brutality inside america's system of criminaljustice. he is now a free man. but what does freedom really mean after everything he has been through? albert woodfox, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. here you are, in london as a free man. but given everything you have been through, is it possible for you to ever feel truly free? yeah, i mean philosophically, mentally and emotionally i was free long before my physical freedom.

my physicalfreedom. and so my physical freedom. and so that was a part of my survival technique. it allowed me to survive being in solitary confinement for such a long period of time. i wonder in terms of, literally in terms of muscle memory, whether the way your body is, whether the way your body is, whether your muscles remember four decades in shackles, whether you still have that feeling of being in an enclosed space, literally two by three metres or has that left your body? i still have claustrophobic attacks occasionally. and i guess several times i wake up and have been disorientated, because i am used to getting up and seeing bars and stuff and you wake up bars and stuff and you wake up and you see a wall and a bedroom... fora and a bedroom... for a brief moment

i am disorientated. you had an awful long time to reflect on the course of your life and i want to take you right back to near the beginning. growing up nearthe beginning. growing up in near the beginning. growing up in louisiana as a young boy, you made choices and you made some very bad choices, i guess one could say now. looking back, why did you make those choices? i was a young african—american kid growing up in the south of the united states. racism was blatant, the opportunities from economic to political to social were almost non—existent. and if you are denied access to society, if you are denied opportunities, the instinct to survive is probably the strongest instinct we have. it was almost predestined that i would turn to petty crime to survive.

i'd like to read to you a little passage from your extraordinarily frank and honest book, solitary, where you talk about being a youth growing up. "i robbed people, iscared them, i threatened them, i intimidated them. i intimidated them. i stole from people who had almost nothing. they were my people, black people. i broke into their homes and took their possessions. i was a chauvinist pig and i never thought about the pain i caused." yes. i made terrible choices. there are things that i did that i will never be able to forgive myself for. and i will spend the rest of my life trying to atone for those things. but i was not a criminal. i thought i had to do criminal things to survive. and later on in life, because of the influence

injoining because of the influence in joining the because of the influence injoining the black panther party i began to understand how society functioned and understand what individual racism supported by institutional racism and the systemic application of racism, how that affected my life individually and as a member of the african—american community. you talk about the black panthers and i guess it was inside the prison in new york where you first really came face—to—face with black men who were committed members of the panther movement. were you already aware of them? were you already aware of them? were you already drawn to that ideology, a sort of extremely strong black power ideology or was it meeting these people that changed your head? there is a question as to whether the influence of the black panther party awaken something already in me

or whether the influence of the black panther party raised my level of consciousness to where i began to understand the forces around me, i began to understand that there were certain policies from the government on down to white america that determined pretty much the course of my life. the black panthers spoke a lot aboutjustice a lot about justice and a lot aboutjustice and equality for black people in the united states after centuries of discrimination and slavery, of course, but post—slavery the discrimination continued. there were also some black panthers who were clearly explicitly committed to violence. were you part of the movement that believed that violence was justified or not? you know, like any organisation, the organisation

has a goal, a perimeter in which they function. there will be people in the organisation who will not adhere to that. we had people like that in the party but overall... what about you? what about you ? me, what about you? me, personally, no. my me, personally, no. my experience with the party was in prison. herman and iformed party was in prison. herman and i formed the only recognised black panther party chapter in a prison. so a lot of the stuff that happened with the party in society, we were not exposed to it. i take your point because, really, your active involvement with the black panthers was all behind bars which takes us to angola.

that notorious prison in louisiana where you ended up in louisiana where you ended up in 1971 when you walked through the gate into thatjail and you did not leave it for more than four decades. 44 years. before we get to solitary, talk me through your first impressions of what has long been regarded as the most brutal and perhaps most racist prison in the united states of america. that pretty much sums it up. angola had been designated by various social organisations, including government organisations as being the bloodiest and most violent prison in the united states at that time. almost every day, prisoners — either by security or by prisoner on prisoner crime — someone was stabbed or bludgeoned or murdered so that was the type

of environment that you were forced to survive in. and it was segregated. yes. and the staff, from the governor on down but pretty much all of the staff were white. yes. is a matter of fact, in angola itself you had about 300 personnel in charge of about 5000 or 6000 prisoners. what was unique about angola is that it was a former slave plantation. it had been a plantation throughout the course of the slave period. and you still have families who work there, they go back generation after generation. and you, the black prisoners, were put to work in the fields. mostly. yes. there were a few

janitorialjobs. most of the plum jobs went to the white prisoners. let's get to 1972. the murder of a young white prison guard. did you do it? no. there is such an abundance of physical evidence that clearly. . .you of physical evidence that clearly...you know, says i was not involved in his murder. physical evidence, they found a bloodied fingerprint in mr miller's blood on the door. they never pursued beyond blaming it on me and the other guys who were charged. they did not match any of the people who worked the crime scene. so it raises the obvious question, why were you targeted by the authorities? the prison staff, administrative and security, they were aware that herman and i were members

of the black panthers. herman wallace, your friend, a fellow black panther. and you were explicit in the prison. you organised other prisoners. you organised other prisoners. you formed an antirape squad to try and control the sexual assault and abuse inside your wing of the prison. so you were not hiding your black panther loyalty. no. and to be honest with lasted longer than we thought because there was an internal conflict in the new...doc secretary, department of corrections, so mr miller was murdered in that environment. so you are convicted of a crime that you insist, always insisted you simply did not commit. but the fact is you were hauled off to that special part off to that special part

of the prison for the solitary confinement prisoners. and life in a cell of two metres by three metres began. and i think everyone watching and listening to this will not be able to get their head around what you then experienced for 43 years and ten months. so try and capture it for me. well, it's kind of hard to find words to imagine the horror of being confined to a nine foot long, six foot wide cell. the actual space itself is much smaller because you have metal beds attached to the wall that take up a great part of the cell. a metal table and chair on the other wall and a toilet bowl/sink combination in back so you have a narrow path in which to manoeuvre up in which to manoeuvre up and down the cell. so although the cell is six feet wide and nine feet long, the actual space

is much smaller. try to stay in your bedroom for 23 hours. go in your backyard, draw a box, go in your backyard, drawa box, nine go in your backyard, draw a box, nine feet by six feet and stay in there for 23 hours. now multiply that 1 million times. to add to that, you know there was absolutely nothing you can do to change the situation you are in. and add to that the attitude and behaviour of the guards who are responsible for you. that was a huge element in the, let's use the word, torture that was imposed upon you. now they refer to them as correction officers but at that time they were known as free men. and you add to that you had an inmate guard system

and these guys were brutal. what you mean by brutal? they used physical violence against other prisoners. they beat them, they gassed them, they had pretty much them, they had pretty much the same power and authority as the free men, as they were referred to, who work there. and they never hesitated to use the power they had. but if i may say so, as you has said since, you and herman, your great friend who was locked up in solitary in the same place as you, "me and herman, we didn't put up with all the racist comments. if they talked trash to us, we talked trash back to them just as bad. i forced to them just as bad. iforced myself to them just as bad. i forced myself to learn how to not give into the fear. i would not let fear rule me."

but as a result, you got the pain and the brutality even worse. yeah, we were seeing a lot. they referred to us troublemakers and ringleaders. and um, they had no idea of the political foundation or the philosophy, that we did the things we did — motivated us to fight against injustice and inhumanity. horrible physical conditions, the lack of clothing, lack of adequate food. if i asked you right now, looking back, what was the worst thing, the thing that really got closest to breaking you? that would be my mother's death. 0ther mother's death. other than that, with all i went through and all that happened to me, i never came close to being broken. when i lost my mom in 1994 to cancer there was a policy

in to go home for the funeral and in african—american families it's important to be able to say that final goodbye. it usually occurs at the wake or the funeral. and because of who i am and because they had singled me out as a troublemaker, i was denied that. so i had to carry that burden for 27 years. fortunately, before my mother passed away, my life had changed tremendously. a transformation from criminal to political and social activist had occurred and i was in the process of constantly educating and re—educating myself and re—educating myself and i used it to try and i used it to try and raise my level of

conscience and so i was able to thank herfor conscience and so i was able to thank her for the things that she values and what she tried to instill in me and to tell her she was my first hero. you did an awful lot of reading in prison and became something of a legal expert. you looked at so many legal books. you launched so many appeals and you did, actually, deliver change to the prison regime while you were there. and thanks also to people working outside on your behalf, there were various appeals against the conviction and, finally, in 2016 you didn't get the exoneration you were looking for, but you got the offer of a plea deal. it's called an alford plea. yeah. it's a plea does not admit guilt but it admits that the state has enough evidence to bring you to trial. because you had always said "i will walk out

of here when i am declared an innocent man" and you were not. yeah, i still have problems with it. there are times when i feel very angry and there are times when i am disappointed that i took the plea deal. because for my whole life i had taught men to fight, to stand for what was right and, you know, itried to do it by notjust words, but examples. so in the final analysis, you know, i accepted a plea deal. and there were many factors involved but i think that the one factor is a conversation i had with my brother. and he said that he was visiting with my daughter and she broke down crying. he asked what was wrong and she said "why don't i have a daddy?" and he said you have a daddy, and the things he's accomplished in the prison system, you would be

very proud of him. and she said "no, i don't know what it is to call him daddy and get a response, i don't know what it is for him to hold me in his arms and comfort me when i'm troubled. and i don't know if i'll ever experience that." and that was kind of the tipping point of the mental and emotional battle i was waging with myself. and you do have that now. yes. you can hug your daughter and your grandchildren and your grandchildren and your grandchildren and your great—grandchildren. i have beautiful great—grandchildren. you can do all that. but you were released and now live as a free man in a united states of america where there is still clear racial injustice at the heart of the criminal justice racial injustice at the heart of the criminaljustice system. one only has to look at the statistics on rates of incarceration, one only has to look at what happens to too many young black people, particularly young black men in their experiences

with the police in different parts of your country. yes. how does that make you feel after everything you have been through? when i was released from prison, it took me about three weeks of being in society to realise that nothing had changed. i want to be clear with you. so nothing had changed? racism was still part of the very fibre of american society. and that the brutality of racism had not changed in its application. it had just changed in how it was applied. but i'm mindful that you walked out in the very year that barack 0bama served his last year as president of the united states of america, the united states of america, the first black man to hold that position. can you really say to me that nothing had changed in 44 years? a technicality. i was in prison when president 0bama was elected. my

president 0bama was elected. my reality was that nothing would change. you know? this is one man, we have a culture of racism and bigotry and white supremacy that goes back to the founding of america. and one manjust can't of america. and one man just can't change that in eight years. that's the longest period of time he would be allowed to be president. will it change? ijust wonder what will it change? i just wonder what you say to your children and your great—grandchildren because you speak as a guy who all those years ago committed to the black panther movement to achieve what you regarded as justice for black people in america. how do you think your grandchildren and great—grandchildren should carry out that struggle? if you still see it as a struggle. well, yeah, ithink it's a social struggle. as a matter of fact, it's one of the personal motivations for me. i don't want my great—grandkids 30 years from now to be sitting

here being interviewed on a stage talking to people about racism and institutional racism and systemic application of racism. as martin luther king said, i would rather that society that has evolved to the point where they are judged where they arejudged by where they are judged by content of character not the colour of their skin or their ethnicity or physical features or hair checks.. let me ask you this. a different sort of question but the same thing, are you proud of your country today? my proud of your country today? my country, yes. yes. untry, my co my my country, yes. my government, no. and a last thought, and ifind this remarkable about you and the strength of your mind, you say that when you consider everything that had happened to you in your life, and i mean everything, you say "i wouldn't change one thing.

all i went through made me the man i am today." do you really mean that? that you wouldn't, on reflection, take different decisions that would have avoided those 44 years in solitary confinement? no. no, i wouldn't change a thing. because for one thing, i didn'tjust survive i didn't just survive solitary i didn'tjust survive solitary confinement, i prospered as a human being. i prospered as a human being. i developed moral principles, values, a code of conduct and discipline. i self—educated myself. all the things that society had denied me as a human being i was able to provide myself in a hostile and isolating environment. so, no, iwouldn�*t change a thing. as painful as it has been, as brutal as it has been

the beatings, the gassings, being forced to drink out of the toilet because they turned the water off while i was in the dungeon, you know. all the things i went through, they helped build me and shape they helped build me and shape the man i am today and my mum used to always tell me to always be proud of what you look at in the mirror each morning. and so far i think the way i have conducted myself and the way i have transformed myself and the way i have evolved, i'm very proud of what looks back at me. albert woodfox, it has been a pleasure to talk to you. thank you for being on hardtalk. thank you.

hello there. i'm sure a lot of people are thinking it's warm enough already, but it will get hotter to the rest of this week. temperatures will continue to rise with heatwaves spreading to many parts of the uk. a lot of people may be headed to the coast hoping for something a little bit cooler with some sea breezes. but already, we've seen temperatures hitting 30 degrees in surrey in the sunshine on monday. you may be surprised to learn the temperatures could be as low as 8 or 9 degrees first thing on tuesday morning in rural parts of wales in northern england. and northern england. it's going to be warmer in northern scotland for the breeze being ploughed in a little bit of rain. that gets pushed away to get more sunshine developing

in scotland and it will be a sunny day on tuesday in northern ireland and again across england and wales. sea breezes a bit cooler and in the and temperatures continuing to rise among england and wales. widely 29—30 degrees, 25 or so east of scotland and northern ireland. the heat is building underneath that area of high pressure and keeping the rain to the far northwest of scotland. later on in the week, we will start to pick up in east or south easterly breeze and that will draw in some the heat that we've got in western europe where it is hot in many places already. we're not expecting to break any records this time. however, by the end of the week, temperatures to the west of london could be reaching 36 celsius. as we head into wednesday, sunny skies and pretty much across the board, there will be breezy in the far northwest of scotland but should stay dry here this temperatures are continuing to rise at 27 degrees and eastern parts of scotland and the northeast of england, and 32 is likely to the midlands, towards the east of england as well. that heat will linger for some time. you can see it maintain above 30 degrees in london to the weekend.

it's not going to be as hard in scotland and northern ireland, and temperatures may start to drop a bit over the weekend. but the rain is been all or nothing since the 1st ofjuly and nothing across many parts of the uk and a lot of rain in the highlands of scotland. some people are looking for some rain and asking when it's going to come. the signs are that early next week, with falling pressure, temperatures will be dropping and there could be some rain.

welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, i'm monica miller. the headlines: the former us president, donald trump, says his home in palm beach, florida, has been raided by fbi agents. the star of grease, olivia newton—john, one of the most successful music artists of all time, has died at the age of 73. fans honour her memory at the hollywood walk of fame and her grease co—star, john travolta, signs off his tribute with "your danny — yourjohn — "you made all of our lives so much better." asjoe biden�*s climate change bill clears the us senate, the us president travels to kentucky, where at least 37 people died in flash flooding last month.