hello, and welcome to the programme where british journalists debate the week's news with the correspondents who write, blog, podcast and broadcast from the dateline: london. living with double—digit inflation is an unwelcome, if familiar, experience in many countries. turkey, argentina, zimbabwe and iran started 2022 under that yoke. for the british, it had been a distant memory, but not any more. in the united states, presidentjoe biden signed into law the optimistically titled

inflation reduction act. would it were that simple. another bad memory from the 1980s, the threat to kill the author sir salman rushdie, came close to being fulfilled. liberals are relieved he survived, but have they helped to fuel intolerance? to discuss all that, in the studio are maria margaronis, a documentary—maker who, among other projects, has charted the crises, financial and environmental, which have afflicted greece. henry chu is part of the editorial team at the los angeles times as well as being its london correspondent. abdel bari atwan is a specialist in the politics of the middle east and runs the news website rai al youm. hello youm. to all of you and will be to have hello to all of you and will be to have un the studio with me once again. let's start with the uk. maria, you have reported on how the nation can be atomized by the extraordinary impact of rising inflation and people's efforts of the surviving dented and often

because of forces well beyond their control. what do you through your for britain in the coming months and years? for britain in the coming months and ears? ~ , ., ., , for britain in the coming months and ears? , ., ., , ., years? well, first of all people are auoin to years? well, first of all people are going to suffer- — years? well, first of all people are going to suffer. people _ years? well, first of all people are going to suffer. people are - years? well, first of all people are going to suffer. people are going i years? well, first of all people are l going to suffer. people are going to be if energy prices are not capped and we are never to think they might be up to over £4000 a year, is going to be beyond choosing between heating and eating, it will be not heating and eating, it will be not heating and eating, it will be not heating and not eating. a number of nhs leaders spoke out this morning and said it's going to be a severe health consequences because of this. people suffer horribly both physically and mentally during the greek crisis which he referred to, there was a very steep rise in the suicide rate. it's awful to be in that anxiety about, you know, not just can you go out but can you eat, can you feed your kids? it's terrible, it's corrosive and it's very polarising in a society is not because it sets people against each

other and it's politically polarising as well.- other and it's politically polarising as well. other and it's politically olarisin: as well. �* ., , polarising as well. are there any lessons from _ polarising as well. are there any lessons from what _ polarising as well. are there any lessons from what greece - polarising as well. are there any lessons from what greece wentl lessons from what greece went through in terms of how political leaders should try to steal people for what is coming? because in a sense one got the impression in greece that it caught them completely unawa res greece that it caught them completely unawares and to be fair there were different circumstances. it's a very different circumstance but at this point we'll have to just steal people but we have the ability to do some thing about it. right? there are options on the table about capping energy prices but there is a much longer—term project as we put into play is whelped because what is hitting this country so hard if not just the girl external influences, it's chronic lack of investment in public services. i think public investment in britain was just five or six years ago 34th out of 36 measured by the oecd so railways falling apart, the water is falling apart, the nhs is falling apart, these things need to be dealt with in the meantime everything possible need to be done to put it the most

vulnerable. need to be done to put it the most vulnerable-— vulnerable. henry, situation is not as acute in — vulnerable. henry, situation is not as acute in the _ vulnerable. henry, situation is not as acute in the us _ vulnerable. henry, situation is not as acute in the us as _ vulnerable. henry, situation is not as acute in the us as permitted i vulnerable. henry, situation is not as acute in the us as permitted to | as acute in the us as permitted to hear at least at the moment but how are pocketbook issues affecting americans already? i are pocketbook issues affecting americans already?— are pocketbook issues affecting americans already? i would certainly sa it is americans already? i would certainly say it is not — americans already? i would certainly say it is not as _ americans already? i would certainly say it is not as acute _ americans already? i would certainly say it is not as acute because - say it is not as acute because certainly— say it is not as acute because certainly some submissive society here as _ certainly some submissive society here as there will be insulated but we had _ here as there will be insulated but we had a — here as there will be insulated but we had a pole in my home state of california — we had a pole in my home state of california that showed over a majority _ california that showed over a majority had said they experienced moderate — majority had said they experienced moderate hardship already in a particular— moderate hardship already in a particular from the rising gas prices, — particular from the rising gas prices, which for americans and those _ prices, which for americans and those in — prices, which for americans and those in california and texas really hit the _ those in california and texas really hit the pocket book. that has gone down _ hit the pocket book. that has gone down and — hit the pocket book. that has gone down and there looks to be some relief on — down and there looks to be some relief on the horizon in california. there _ relief on the horizon in california. there are — relief on the horizon in california. there are tax relief in for filling up there are tax relief in for filling up your— there are tax relief in for filling up your tank there are tax relief in for filling up yourtank at there are tax relief in for filling up your tank at the petrol station, but it_ up your tank at the petrol station, but it is— up your tank at the petrol station, but it is still— up your tank at the petrol station, but it is still something that is hitting — but it is still something that is hitting a — but it is still something that is hitting a wide swathe of people and is happening here proportionately for example people of colour, those who are _ for example people of colour, those who are already struggling to get by, who— who are already struggling to get by, who were hit worse for the pandemic— by, who were hit worse for the pandemic than those who were in better— pandemic than those who were in better shape and are also they are

getting _ better shape and are also they are getting pretty badly hit by this rise irr— getting pretty badly hit by this rise in prices. we did not hit the double digits of inflation as you did here — double digits of inflation as you did here and it is going down to my but it's_ did here and it is going down to my but it's hot— did here and it is going down to my but it's not going to go down enough for people _ but it's not going to go down enough for people to be feeling much relief. — for people to be feeling much relief, certainly within the next few months and also in terms of politics— few months and also in terms of politics for — few months and also in terms of politics for the time the midterm elections — politics for the time the midterm elections come around in the us. thats— elections come around in the us. that's really going to be on peorrie's— that's really going to be on people's mines when they go into the voting booth. just people's mines when they go into the voting booth-— voting booth. just on that bit of legislation. _ voting booth. just on that bit of legislation, the _ voting booth. just on that bit of legislation, the inflation - voting booth. just on that bit of. legislation, the inflation reduction act, is there much inflation reduction in this atmore is a good title for an omnibus bill? it is kind of a _ title for an omnibus bill? it is kind of a misleading - title for an omnibus bill? it is kind of a misleading title because that is— kind of a misleading title because that is hot— kind of a misleading title because that is not as same as the aim was to tackle _ that is not as same as the aim was to tackle climate change and other social— to tackle climate change and other social issues such as drug prices. now— social issues such as drug prices. now i_ social issues such as drug prices. now i think— social issues such as drug prices. now i think most or many i should say economists have said that there is some _ say economists have said that there is some built—in inflation reduction in it _ is some built—in inflation reduction in it over— is some built—in inflation reduction in it. over the is some built—in inflation reduction in it. 0verthe medium is some built—in inflation reduction in it. over the medium to long term in it. over the medium to long term in democracies where we are with elections. — in democracies where we are with elections, quick to come around more quickly— elections, quick to come around more quickly than _ elections, quick to come around more quickly than we ever expect, that

will be _ quickly than we ever expect, that will be difficult for the democrats who have — will be difficult for the democrats who have passed this package to really _ who have passed this package to really show that there has been much reduction _ really show that there has been much reduction in _ really show that there has been much reduction in prices going up. so the inflation — reduction in prices going up. so the inflation... inflation reduction act not totally— inflation... inflation reduction act not totally a misnomer but over a longer— not totally a misnomer but over a longer period of time when we see dru- longer period of time when we see drug prices— longer period of time when we see drug prices going down and deficit reduction — drug prices going down and deficit reduction and money being pulled out of the _ reduction and money being pulled out of the economy and also a move towards — of the economy and also a move towards renewable sources of energy that will— towards renewable sources of energy that will not then therefore show bil that will not then therefore show big price — that will not then therefore show big price rises in gas and oil. just over a decade — big price rises in gas and oil. jut over a decade ago, basic economic questions were at the heart of the revolutions that became known as the arab spring. i'm not certainly suggesting anything similar would happen in europe or the us perhaps but in worth reminding people how fundamental things like being able to afford to eat, about filling that taxation system was unfair actually destabilise regimes that had existed for decades almost unchallenged. this is an excellent question

because _ this is an excellent question because to _ this is an excellent question because to be _ this is an excellent question because to be honest- this is an excellent question because to be honest we - this is an excellent questionj because to be honest we are this is an excellent question . because to be honest we are on this is an excellent question - because to be honest we are on the edge _ because to be honest we are on the edge of— because to be honest we are on the edge of arab — because to be honest we are on the edge of arab food _ because to be honest we are on the edge of arab food spring _ because to be honest we are on the edge of arab food spring simply- edge of arab food spring simply because — edge of arab food spring simply because the _ edge of arab food spring simply because the prices _ edge of arab food spring simply because the prices are - edge of arab food spring simply because the prices are shootingj edge of arab food spring simply. because the prices are shooting up and the _ because the prices are shooting up and the people. _ because the prices are shooting up and the people, poor— because the prices are shooting up and the people, poor people - because the prices are shooting up and the people, poor people who i because the prices are shooting up. and the people, poor people who are really— and the people, poor people who are really suffering — and the people, poor people who are really suffering from _ and the people, poor people who are really suffering from this. _ and the people, poor people who are really suffering from this. talking - really suffering from this. talking about _ really suffering from this. talking about 10% — really suffering from this. talking about 10% here, _ really suffering from this. talking about 10% here, to— really suffering from this. talking about 10% here, to .3 _ really suffering from this. talking about 10% here, to .3 in - really suffering from this. talking about 10% here, to .3 in london. really suffering from this. talking. about 10% here, to .3 in london or britain, _ about 10% here, to .3 in london or britain, but you _ about 10% here, to .3 in london or britain, but you look— about 10% here, to .3 in london or britain, but you look at _ about 10% here, to .3 in london or britain, but you look at turkey, . about 10% here, to .3 in london or britain, but you look at turkey, iti britain, but you look at turkey, it is 80% _ britain, but you look at turkey, it is 80% inflation _ britain, but you look at turkey, it is 80% inflation rate _ britain, but you look at turkey, it is 80% inflation rate there. - britain, but you look at turkey, it is 80% inflation rate there. a- britain, but you look at turkey, it i is 80% inflation rate there. a month a-o is 80% inflation rate there. a month ago i _ is 80% inflation rate there. a month ago i was _ is 80% inflation rate there. a month ago i was in — is 80% inflation rate there. a month ago i was in lebanon _ is 80% inflation rate there. a month ago i was in lebanon and _ is 80% inflation rate there. a month ago i was in lebanon and i— is 80% inflation rate there. a month ago i was in lebanon and i went- is 80% inflation rate there. a month ago i was in lebanon and i went to a well-known— ago i was in lebanon and i went to a well—known restaurant— ago i was in lebanon and i went to a well— known restaurant and - ago i was in lebanon and i went to a well— known restaurant and it's - ago i was in lebanon and i went to a well— known restaurant and it's like i well— known restaurant and it's like oxford _ well— known restaurant and it's like oxford street, _ well— known restaurant and it's like oxford street, and _ well— known restaurant and it's like oxford street, and i— well— known restaurant and it's like oxford street, and i was— well— known restaurant and it's like oxford street, and i was shocked. i oxford street, and i was shocked. their— oxford street, and i was shocked. their owner— oxford street, and i was shocked. their owner recognised _ oxford street, and i was shocked. their owner recognised me - oxford street, and i was shocked. their owner recognised me and i oxford street, and i was shocked. i their owner recognised me and said sorry, _ their owner recognised me and said sorry, we _ their owner recognised me and said sorry, we don't— their owner recognised me and said sorry, we don't have _ their owner recognised me and said sorry, we don't have bread. - sorry, we don't have bread. seriously _ sorry, we don't have bread. seriously. and _ sorry, we don't have bread. seriously. and people - sorry, we don't have bread. seriously. and people said, j sorry, we don't have bread. - seriously. and people said, what, bread, _ seriously. and people said, what, bread, you — seriously. and people said, what, bread. you don't _ seriously. and people said, what, bread, you don't have _ seriously. and people said, what, bread, you don't have bread? - seriously. and people said, what, bread, you don't have bread? in. seriously. and people said, what, . bread, you don't have bread? in the middle _ bread, you don't have bread? in the middle east, — bread, you don't have bread? in the middle east, bread _ bread, you don't have bread? in the middle east, bread is— bread, you don't have bread? in the middle east, bread is essential. - bread, you don't have bread? in the middle east, bread is essential. it. middle east, bread is essential. it not like _ middle east, bread is essential. it not like here _ middle east, bread is essential. it not like here we _ middle east, bread is essential. it not like here we can _ middle east, bread is essential. it not like here we can do _ middle east, bread is essential. it not like here we can do with- middle east, bread is essential. it not like here we can do with the l not like here we can do with the roast _ not like here we can do with the roast potato _ not like here we can do with the roast potato or _ not like here we can do with the roast potato or chips, _ not like here we can do with the roast potato or chips, there - not like here we can do with the roast potato or chips, there you j roast potato or chips, there you have _ roast potato or chips, there you have to — roast potato or chips, there you have to have _ roast potato or chips, there you have to have bread _ roast potato or chips, there you have to have bread because - roast potato or chips, there you have to have bread because of. roast potato or chips, there you - have to have bread because of hummus and everything and _ have to have bread because of hummus and everything and anyway _ have to have bread because of hummus and everything and anyway it _ have to have bread because of hummus and everything and anyway it now - have to have bread because of hummus

and everything and anyway it now the l and everything and anyway it now the cues in— and everything and anyway it now the cues in lebahoh— and everything and anyway it now the cues in lebanon for— and everything and anyway it now the cues in lebanon for bread _ and everything and anyway it now the cues in lebanon for bread is - and everything and anyway it now the cues in lebanon for bread is huge. i cues in lebanon for bread is huge. people _ cues in lebanon for bread is huge. people are — cues in lebanon for bread is huge. people are digging _ cues in lebanon for bread is huge. people are digging in _ cues in lebanon for bread is huge. people are digging in the - cues in lebanon for bread is huge. people are digging in the dustbini cues in lebanon for bread is huge. i people are digging in the dustbin in order— people are digging in the dustbin in order to _ people are digging in the dustbin in order to look — people are digging in the dustbin in order to look for— people are digging in the dustbin in order to look for food. _ people are digging in the dustbin in order to look for food. there - people are digging in the dustbin in order to look for food. there are i order to look for food. there are famine _ order to look for food. there are famine spreading _ order to look for food. there are famine spreading and _ order to look for food. there are famine spreading and there - order to look for food. there are famine spreading and there arei order to look for food. there are| famine spreading and there are a order to look for food. there are - famine spreading and there are a lot of alarming — famine spreading and there are a lot of alarming signs _ famine spreading and there are a lot of alarming signs because _ famine spreading and there are a lot of alarming signs because of- famine spreading and there are a lot of alarming signs because of this. i of alarming signs because of this. so i of alarming signs because of this. so i e>

maria, _ could be arab food spring very soon. maria, you _ could be arab food spring very soon. maria, you mentioned _ could be arab food spring very soon. maria, you mentioned that— could be arab food spring very soon. maria, you mentioned that there - could be arab food spring very soon. maria, you mentioned that there arej maria, you mentioned that there are various proposals for capping energy prices and the british labour party, opposition, came up with one that they said it would have an impact on inflation and the experts seemed to agree it would but only a six month plan. agree it would but only a six month ian, �* ., �* , ., agree it would but only a six month plan. again it's a short-term plan, and then a — plan. again it's a short-term plan, and then a longer-term _ plan. again it's a short-term plan, and then a longer-term plan - plan. again it's a short-term plan, and then a longer-term plan is - plan. again it's a short-term plan, j and then a longer-term plan is the and then a longer—term plan is the labour party plan to connect a minimum wage to the cost of living, which seems a very reasonable thing to do, but we definitely need a longer—term strategy and you were saying, henry, about the inflation reduction bill being partly under climate change but the green new deal which is again part of the labour party here's plan seems to be a more sustainable in both senses way of going forward with this. i'm not very good economics at all. i don't have a clue... but it seems to me that if we are going to try to rebuild infrastructure and move forward in a way that makes sense on all the threats facing us at the

moment, that's the way to go. j all the threats facing us at the moment, that's the way to go. i hate to mention — moment, that's the way to go. i hate to mention infrastructure _ moment, that's the way to go. i hate to mention infrastructure in - moment, that's the way to go. i hate to mention infrastructure in the - to mention infrastructure in the context of donald trump's presidency but it's one of the things he expressed a lot of passion about when he was president. and he is still the man to be it looks like on paper. ijust wonder in the light of liz cheney's defeat in the republican primaries in wyoming, whether that is being echoed in other selections. whether that is being echoed in otherselections. is whether that is being echoed in other selections. is it still looking like donald trump's party? first of all on the question of infrastructure, that was notjust first of all on the question of infrastructure, that was not just a donald _ infrastructure, that was not just a donald trump thing but actually the joe donald trump thing but actually the joe biden— donald trump thing but actually the joe biden administration also had a very large — joe biden administration also had a very large infrastructure bill trying — very large infrastructure bill trying to— very large infrastructure bill trying to improve public works across — trying to improve public works across the us but your question about— across the us but your question about donald trump and the republican party after what we just saw it _ republican party after what we just saw it with liz cheney's loss and also _ saw it with liz cheney's loss and also the — saw it with liz cheney's loss and also the fact that of the few republicans who actually voted to impeach _ republicans who actually voted to impeach into that second time, all but two _ impeach into that second time, all but two of— impeach into that second time, all but two of them are now out. either have decided to remove themselves in public— have decided to remove themselves in public life _ have decided to remove themselves in public life or they have been voted

out, so _ public life or they have been voted out, so it — public life or they have been voted out, so it really shows the grip he still has _ out, so it really shows the grip he still has on — out, so it really shows the grip he still has on this party. now this search— still has on this party. now this search of— still has on this party. now this search of his mar—a—lago home and people wonder where it will have a backfire _ people wonder where it will have a backfire effect where it increases support — backfire effect where it increases support for him or if it will show him up — support for him or if it will show him up for being someone who still does not _ him up for being someone who still does not respect the rule of law and thinks _ does not respect the rule of law and thinks of— does not respect the rule of law and thinks of himself as above it. in the us, — thinks of himself as above it. in the us, i— thinks of himself as above it. in the us, ithink thinks of himself as above it. in the us, i think everybody has in their— the us, i think everybody has in their partisan contact lenses that they view— their partisan contact lenses that they view everything with, so if you or someone — they view everything with, so if you or someone he was already inside donald _ or someone he was already inside donald trump, is another sign then of why— donald trump, is another sign then of why he _ donald trump, is another sign then of why he should not be allowed back in the _ of why he should not be allowed back in the oval _ of why he should not be allowed back in the oval office but if you are for donald trump, and it is now becoming — for donald trump, and it is now becoming a _ for donald trump, and it is now becoming a party where it's about the worship of a leader as opposed to necessarily the policies, is further— to necessarily the policies, is further proof that he is someone who is being _ further proof that he is someone who is being unfairly persecuted by an assessment that cannot deal with somebody who is from the outside. some _ somebody who is from the outside. some it _ somebody who is from the outside. some it still is another polarising factor, _ some it still is another polarising factor, but — some it still is another polarising factor, but it is a little bit dangerous and i will say for the

remic— dangerous and i will say for the remic and party which bills itself as the _ remic and party which bills itself as the party of law and or to suddenly— as the party of law and or to suddenly be attacking the fbi and even some saying defund the fbi. that's— even some saying defund the fbi. that's a _ even some saying defund the fbi. that's a little bit of shaky ground for republicans to be on. lots that's a little bit of shaky ground for republicans to be on.- for republicans to be on. lots of speculation _ for republicans to be on. lots of speculation about _ for republicans to be on. lots of speculation about the _ for republicans to be on. lots of| speculation about the documents for republicans to be on. lots of- speculation about the documents that were seized at mar—a—lago by the fbi. top—secret documents and referenced with nuclear documents but not quite clear what it is but lots of rumours look at living in the american press. jn lots of rumours look at living in the american press.— lots of rumours look at living in the american press. in the middle east now, the american press. in the middle east now. on _ the american press. in the middle east now, on speculation - the american press. in the middle east now, on speculation and - the american press. in the middle - east now, on speculation and rumours that actually _ east now, on speculation and rumours that actually president _ east now, on speculation and rumours that actually president trump, - east now, on speculation and rumours that actually president trump, when l that actually president trump, when he was _ that actually president trump, when he was president, _ that actually president trump, when he was president, when— that actually president trump, when he was president, when he - that actually president trump, when he was president, when he was- that actually president trump, when he was president, when he was in. that actually president trump, when. he was president, when he was in the white _ he was president, when he was in the white house, — he was president, when he was in the white house, he _ he was president, when he was in the white house, he wanted _ he was president, when he was in the white house, he wanted to _ he was president, when he was in the white house, he wanted to give - he was president, when he was in the white house, he wanted to give the l white house, he wanted to give the know-how, — white house, he wanted to give the know-how, the _ white house, he wanted to give the know—how, the experience - white house, he wanted to give the know— how, the experience to - white house, he wanted to give the know— how, the experience to the l know— how, the experience to the saudi _ know— how, the experience to the saudi arabia _ know— how, the experience to the saudi arabia how— know— how, the experience to the saudi arabia how to _ know— how, the experience to the saudi arabia how to use - know— how, the experience to the saudi arabia how to use nuclear. saudi arabia how to use nuclear power— saudi arabia how to use nuclear power to— saudi arabia how to use nuclear power to generate _ saudi arabia how to use nuclear power to generate electricity. . saudi arabia how to use nuclear. power to generate electricity. and it seems— power to generate electricity. and it seems there _ power to generate electricity. and it seems there are _ power to generate electricity. and it seems there are speculation - it seems there are speculation saying — it seems there are speculation saying or— it seems there are speculation saying or rumours _ it seems there are speculation saying or rumours saying - it seems there are speculation saying or rumours saying thatl it seems there are speculation - saying or rumours saying that there are a _ saying or rumours saying that there are a lot _ saying or rumours saying that there are a lot of— saying or rumours saying that there are a lot of secrets _ saying or rumours saying that there are a lot of secrets about _ saying or rumours saying that there are a lot of secrets about that, - saying or rumours saying that there are a lot of secrets about that, so l are a lot of secrets about that, so these _ are a lot of secrets about that, so these documents _ are a lot of secrets about that, so these documents could _ are a lot of secrets about that, so these documents could be - are a lot of secrets about that, so| these documents could be related are a lot of secrets about that, so i

these documents could be related to this cooperation _ these documents could be related to this cooperation between _ these documents could be related to this cooperation between donald - this cooperation between donald trump _ this cooperation between donald trump and — this cooperation between donald trump and the _ this cooperation between donald trump and the saudi _ this cooperation between donald trump and the saudi arabians, l trump and the saudi arabians, especially— trump and the saudi arabians, especially that— trump and the saudi arabians, especially that de _ trump and the saudi arabians, especially that de facto - trump and the saudi arabians, especially that de facto ruler. trump and the saudi arabians, | especially that de facto ruler of saudi _ especially that de facto ruler of saudi arabia _ especially that de facto ruler of saudi arabia is— especially that de facto ruler of saudi arabia is really— especially that de facto ruler of. saudi arabia is really maintaining especially that de facto ruler of- saudi arabia is really maintaining a very good — saudi arabia is really maintaining a very good relation _ saudi arabia is really maintaining a very good relation with _ saudi arabia is really maintaining a very good relation with donald - saudi arabia is really maintaining a i very good relation with donald trump and his— very good relation with donald trump and his son—in—law_ very good relation with donald trump and his son—in—law which _ very good relation with donald trump and his son—in—law which is— very good relation with donald trump and his son—in—law which isjared - and his son—in—law which isjared kushner, so— and his son—in—law which isjared kushner, so we don't _ and his son—in—law which isjared kushner, so we don't know- and his son—in—law which isjared kushner, so we don't know yet. i and his son—in—law which isjared i kushner, so we don't know yet. as and his son—in—law which isjared - kushner, so we don't know yet. as us have to _ kushner, so we don't know yet. as us have to say— kushner, so we don't know yet. as us have to say it — kushner, so we don't know yet. as us have to say it again, _ kushner, so we don't know yet. as us have to say it again, it _ kushner, so we don't know yet. as us have to say it again, it is— kushner, so we don't know yet. as us have to say it again, it is rumours- have to say it again, it is rumours and speculation, _ have to say it again, it is rumours and speculation, so— have to say it again, it is rumours and speculation, so we _ have to say it again, it is rumours and speculation, so we are - have to say it again, it is rumoursl and speculation, so we are waiting to see what — and speculation, so we are waiting to see what kind _ and speculation, so we are waiting to see what kind of— and speculation, so we are waiting to see what kind of there - and speculation, so we are waiting to see what kind of there is - and speculation, so we are waitingj to see what kind of there is there? one if— to see what kind of there is there? one if it _ to see what kind of there is there? one if it will— to see what kind of there is there? one if it will actually _ to see what kind of there is there? one if it will actually expose - to see what kind of there is there? one if it will actually expose there | one if it will actually expose there was a _ one if it will actually expose there was a ship — one if it will actually expose there was a ship we _ one if it will actually expose there was a ship. we know— one if it will actually expose there was a ship. we know for— was a ship. we know for example saudi _ was a ship. we know for example saudi arabia _ was a ship. we know for example saudi arabia are _ was a ship. we know for example saudi arabia are on _ was a ship. we know for example saudi arabia are on bad - was a ship. we know for example saudi arabia are on bad terms . was a ship. we know for example. saudi arabia are on bad terms with joe saudi arabia are on bad terms with joe biden— saudi arabia are on bad terms with joe biden and _ saudi arabia are on bad terms with joe biden and the _ saudi arabia are on bad terms with joe biden and the democrats - joe biden and the democrats in general— joe biden and the democrats in general so _ joe biden and the democrats in general so there _ joe biden and the democrats in general so there are _ joe biden and the democrats in general so there are rumours l joe biden and the democrats in. general so there are rumours also say that— general so there are rumours also say that maybe _ general so there are rumours also say that maybe the _ general so there are rumours also say that maybe the democrats - general so there are rumours also i say that maybe the democrats would like to _ say that maybe the democrats would like to use _ say that maybe the democrats would like to use these _ say that maybe the democrats would like to use these documents - say that maybe the democrats would like to use these documents againstl like to use these documents against saudi _ like to use these documents against saudi arabia, — like to use these documents against saudi arabia, who _ like to use these documents against saudi arabia, who humiliated - saudi arabia, who humiliated president _ saudi arabia, who humiliated president biden— saudi arabia, who humiliated president biden when - saudi arabia, who humiliated president biden when he - saudi arabia, who humiliated . president biden when he visited saudi _ president biden when he visited saudi arabia... _ president biden when he visited saudi arabia... his _ president biden when he visited saudi arabia. . ._ saudi arabia... his recent visit, the saudi arabia. .. his recent visit, they never— saudi arabia... his recent visit, they never accepted _ saudi arabia... his recent visit, they never accepted that. - saudi arabia... his recent visit, they never accepted that. his i they never accepted that. his demands to _ they never accepted that. his demands to raise production of oil in order—

demands to raise production of oil in order to — demands to raise production of oil in order to raise the _ demands to raise production of oil in order to raise the prices- demands to raise production of oil in order to raise the prices of- in order to raise the prices of energy— in order to raise the prices of energy down— in order to raise the prices of energy down in— in order to raise the prices of energy down in the _ in order to raise the prices of energy down in the us - in order to raise the prices of energy down in the us and l in order to raise the prices of- energy down in the us and europe. i'm energy down in the us and europe. i'm glad _ energy down in the us and europe. i'm glad you — energy down in the us and europe. i'm glad you talked _ energy down in the us and europe. i'm glad you talked about - energy down in the us and europe. i'm glad you talked about it - energy down in the us and europe. i'm glad you talked about it or if. i'm glad you talked about it or if the size — i'm glad you talked about it or if the size of— i'm glad you talked about it or if the size of fat that is speculation. no one knows what's in these documents right now except for donald — documents right now except for donald trump and his advisers and those _ donald trump and his advisers and those who— donald trump and his advisers and those who have actually... apparently he used to walk around the white house with a valet carrying boxes of stuff like this is my stuff. this weird combination of a six—year—old child and ate maniacal... a six-year-old child and ate maniacal. . ._ a six-year-old child and ate maniacal... �* , r maniacal... anyway. and we may never know. in maniacal... anyway. and we may never know- in my — maniacal... anyway. and we may never know. in my opinion, _ maniacal... anyway. and we may never know. in my opinion, yes. _ maniacal... anyway. and we may never know. in my opinion, yes. even - maniacal... anyway. and we may never know. in my opinion, yes. even with i know. in my opinion, yes. even with the affidavits — know. in my opinion, yes. even with the affidavits that _ know. in my opinion, yes. even with the affidavits that might _ know. in my opinion, yes. even with the affidavits that might be - the affidavits that might be released by the justice department, those _ released by the justice department, those not _ released by the justice department, those not only beat redacted portions _ those not only beat redacted portions and if it is about national security we — portions and if it is about national security we may never find out what precisely _ security we may never find out what precisely was in those documents. ouite _ precisely was in those documents. quite interesting because we all dug into this during the course of this week in the story, newsweek appears to be the source of the principal concerns, but newsweek then says it does not know and is quite honest

that that there was this report made by the house oversight committee published in february 2019 which basically accused the administration of what it said was strong private commercial interest of pressing aggressively for the transfer of highly sensitive nuclear technology to saudi arabia, which posted if you are a potential risk to national security absent adequate safeguards. in a sense progress no great surprise that saudi arabia would want the technology given it knows that being an oil economy is longer—term... that being an oil economy is longer-term. . ._ that being an oil economy is longer-term. .. that being an oil economy is lonuer-term... ~ , , , longer-term. .. absolutely but then ou aet longer-term. .. absolutely but then you get the — longer-term. .. absolutely but then you get the next — longer-term. .. absolutely but then you get the next step _ longer-term. .. absolutely but then you get the next step down - longer-term. .. absolutely but then you get the next step down the - longer-term. .. absolutely but then j you get the next step down the line which is saudi arabia's enmity with a rock and you've got to countries with nuclear power claiming that they are not using it to develop nuclear weapons and what is going on? j nuclear weapons and what is going on? ., ~ nuclear weapons and what is going on? ~' ., ., , on? i think with that oversight committee — on? i think with that oversight committee report, _ on? i think with that oversight committee report, that's - on? i think with that oversight j committee report, that's been on? i think with that oversight - committee report, that's been out in the public— committee report, that's been out in the public domain now for three years— the public domain now for three years also— the public domain now for three years also this is not any kind of mystery— years also this is not any kind of mystery that saudi arabia and other countries, _ mystery that saudi arabia and other countries, notjust saudi arabia, do

want _ countries, notjust saudi arabia, do want nuclear— countries, notjust saudi arabia, do want nuclear technology. it's whether _ want nuclear technology. it's whether president trump actually passed _ whether president trump actually passed any secrets along, and that we don't _ passed any secrets along, and that we don't know and will remain speculation for a long time. in a sense it's _ speculation for a long time. in a sense it's a _ speculation for a long time. in a sense it's a symptom _ speculation for a long time. in a sense it's a symptom of - speculation for a long time. try a. sense it's a symptom of the fbi will be resisting so strongly efforts to give full details of his investigation, which having kind of unseal the warrants, there is not written from some to unseal and including from the media to unseal the whole basis of the investigation.- the whole basis of the investigation. the whole basis of the investiuation. ~ . ., investigation. media, we want transparency _ investigation. media, we want transparency in _ investigation. media, we want transparency in all _ investigation. media, we want transparency in all respects i investigation. media, we wantl transparency in all respects but investigation. media, we want - transparency in all respects but the fbi has— transparency in all respects but the fbi has its— transparency in all respects but the fbi has its procedures and so does a department ofjustice, which they want to— department ofjustice, which they want to adhere to. with president trump _ want to adhere to. with president trump now— want to adhere to. with president trump now is a normal citizen, as they— trump now is a normal citizen, as they do— trump now is a normal citizen, as they do with — trump now is a normal citizen, as they do with any other normal citizen, — they do with any other normal citizen, granted expert sessions and he has _ citizen, granted expert sessions and he has certain benefits that come with having been president, but he is still— with having been president, but he is still also — with having been president, but he is still also under the rule of law as our the — is still also under the rule of law as our the rest of us. so that also means— as our the rest of us. so that also means protections from a law so that certain— means protections from a law so that certain things are not revealed about— certain things are not revealed about you _ certain things are not revealed about you that should not be

prematurely. about you that should not be prematurely-— about you that should not be j prematurely._ it's about you that should not be - prematurely._ it's not prematurely. absolutely. it's not ille . al for prematurely. absolutely. it's not illegal for example _ prematurely. absolutely. it's not illegal for example for _ prematurely. absolutely. it's not illegal for example for the - prematurely. absolutely. it's not. illegal for example for the american administration _ illegal for example for the american administration to— illegal for example for the american administration to give _ illegal for example for the american administration to give help - illegal for example for the american administration to give help to - illegal for example for the american administration to give help to an - administration to give help to an ally like — administration to give help to an ally like saudi _ administration to give help to an ally like saudi arabia, _ administration to give help to an ally like saudi arabia, help- administration to give help to an ally like saudi arabia, help and i ally like saudi arabia, help and a nuclear— ally like saudi arabia, help and a nuclear peaceful— ally like saudi arabia, help and a nuclear peaceful means - ally like saudi arabia, help and a nuclear peaceful means i- ally like saudi arabia, help and a nuclear peaceful means i mean. | ally like saudi arabia, help and a . nuclear peaceful means i mean. so ally like saudi arabia, help and a - nuclear peaceful means i mean. so we know there _ nuclear peaceful means i mean. so we know there is — nuclear peaceful means i mean. so we know there is a — nuclear peaceful means i mean. so we know there is a huge _ nuclear peaceful means i mean. so we know there is a huge competition - know there is a huge competition between — know there is a huge competition between saudi _ know there is a huge competition between saudi arabia _ know there is a huge competition between saudi arabia now - know there is a huge competition between saudi arabia now and i know there is a huge competition i between saudi arabia now and iran in the southeast — between saudi arabia now and iran in the southeast would _ between saudi arabia now and iran in the southeast would like _ between saudi arabia now and iran in the southeast would like to _ between saudi arabia now and iran in the southeast would like to have i the southeast would like to have this clean — the southeast would like to have this clean energy _ the southeast would like to have this clean energy as _ the southeast would like to have this clean energy as they - the southeast would like to have this clean energy as they collectl this clean energy as they collect and produce _ this clean energy as they collect and produce it _ this clean energy as they collect and produce it like _ this clean energy as they collect and produce it like many- this clean energy as they collect i and produce it like many people. so i and produce it like many people. so i believe. _ and produce it like many people. so i believe. i— and produce it like many people. so i believe, i don't _ and produce it like many people. so i believe, idon't know— and produce it like many people. so i believe, idon't know why- and produce it like many people. so i believe, i don't know why the i i believe, i don't know why the administration is _ i believe, idon't know why the administration is shy— i believe, idon't know why the administration is shy over- i believe, i don't know why the l administration is shy over telling the truth — administration is shy over telling the truth about _ administration is shy over telling the truth about it. _ administration is shy over telling the truth about it. it— administration is shy over telling the truth about it. it is— administration is shy over telling the truth about it. it is not, i administration is shy over telling the truth about it. it is not, youi the truth about it. it is not, you know, _ the truth about it. it is not, you know. a — the truth about it. it is not, you know, a nuclear— the truth about it. it is not, you know, a nuclear power- the truth about it. it is not, you know, a nuclear power for- the truth about it. it is not, you i know, a nuclear power for actually producing — know, a nuclear power for actually producing nuclear— know, a nuclear power for actually producing nuclear weapons. - know, a nuclear power for actually producing nuclear weapons. no, . know, a nuclear power for actually producing nuclearweapons. no, it know, a nuclear power for actually . producing nuclearweapons. no, it is only for— producing nuclearweapons. no, it is only for peaceful _ producing nuclearweapons. no, it is only for peaceful means... _ producing nuclearweapons. no, it is only for peaceful means... ti- only for peaceful means... necessarily a very big step only for peaceful means...- necessarily a very big step from nuclear— necessarily a very big step from nuclear power technology and then getting _ nuclear power technology and then getting eventually to a nuclear weapon — getting eventually to a nuclear weapon and that's precisely why there _ weapon and that's precisely why there is— weapon and that's precisely why there is an agreement about iran to begin— there is an agreement about iran to begin with — there is an agreement about iran to begin with. i�*m

there is an agreement about iran to beain with. �* ., ., ., ., begin with. i'm going to say again this is all speculation, _ begin with. i'm going to say again this is all speculation, but - begin with. i'm going to say again this is all speculation, but the i this is all speculation, but the administration might be shy about revealing it because of the kickbacks, because a possible kickbacks, because a possible kickbacks that they received or also because donald trump had a habit all along of acting off his own bat and meeting with vladimir putin not having any notes or things like that, so that is the issue. yeah, and honestly — that, so that is the issue. yeah, and honestly if... _ that, so that is the issue. yeah, and honestly if... we _ that, so that is the issue. yeah, and honestly if... we don't i that, so that is the issue. yeah, | and honestly if... we don't know that, so that is the issue. yeah, i and honestly if... we don't know if there has been relationship but some in the fbi will doubtless be looking at if there is any substance to it. let's turn to this other question which is kind of focused all our minds not least as journalist and that's what happened to salman rushdie last friday when he was knifed repeatedly by a man who attacked him at a literary festival. and there's been lots of discussion over not only the context for salman rushdie himself, still subject to the spot while apparently imposed by

the spot while apparently imposed by the low isolate committee, the late spiritual leader of iran, for the public of the satanic verses which the irani government has distanced itself from but still nonetheless blamed salman rushdie for what happened to him. what are your thoughts on the incident and what it may or may not tell us about our tolerance of freedom of expression? obviously it was terrible, horrifying and kind of like this return of the repressed in some awful way, like the end of a dark area story were fake catches up. it was shocking and surprising and awful. i do think there are many different kinds of threat to free expression, and i would not want to confuse the knifing of a writer with a kind of consensus about what you and not as a double to say in a way that does not involve violence or actual censorship. now there's a lot to be said about... we are in this

moment where there is this thing going on called cancel culture in all of that, and sometimes words are given unimportance which does not take into account the context or the situation in which they are used. and there's this kind of great rise in identity politics in the united states which often seems to me to be partly a sort of defensive move but also an inability to engage in a broader way with social and political issues. but i do think that religious fanaticism and a sense of a shifting consensus about what's suitable to say or talk about are two different things. stand what's suitable to say or talk about are two different things.— are two different things. and of course not _ are two different things. and of course notjust _ are two different things. and of course not just the _ are two different things. and of course notjust the us - are two different things. and of course not just the us this i are two different things. and of. course notjust the us this dealing course not just the us this dealing with cancel culture cannot be leading — with cancel culture cannot be leading the way as we do is to many areas but _ leading the way as we do is to many areas but it— leading the way as we do is to many areas but it certainly has come to this country— areas but it certainly has come to this country as well. and freedom of expression _ this country as well. and freedom of expression is a cudgel that each side has — expression is a cudgel that each side has happily taken up at various times— side has happily taken up at various times throughout even these last few

decades— times throughout even these last few decades to beat the other side with. so it was— decades to beat the other side with. so it was certainly popular amongst liberals _ so it was certainly popular amongst liberals to— so it was certainly popular amongst liberals to beat up on conservatives saying _ liberals to beat up on conservatives saying that — liberals to beat up on conservatives saying that they were not allowing for proper — saying that they were not allowing for proper debate or that they were using _ for proper debate or that they were using language that was deliberately insulting _ using language that was deliberately insulting and gratuitously provocative. but then now you have conservatives he resend the sending about _ conservatives he resend the sending about liberals, that they are not allowing — about liberals, that they are not allowing for proper argument to take place but _ allowing for proper argument to take place but let's also remember that these _ place but let's also remember that these same conservatives in some states— these same conservatives in some states like — these same conservatives in some states like florida are disallowing curriculum about different sexual orientations or about race theory, so there _ orientations or about race theory, so there is— orientations or about race theory, so there is a — orientations or about race theory, so there is a lot of blame that can be spread — so there is a lot of blame that can be spread fairly widely on this issue — be spread fairly widely on this issue. but it does show that we are at a moment that expressing what you believe _ at a moment that expressing what you believe and _ at a moment that expressing what you believe and the way in which you do so is _ believe and the way in which you do so is really— believe and the way in which you do so is really coming under scrutiny and it's— so is really coming under scrutiny and it's hard to find those lines to draw _ and it's hard to find those lines to draw. ., ., ~' and it's hard to find those lines to draw. ., ., ~ ., ., draw. you work in a region where this whole _ draw. you work in a region where this whole debate _ draw. you work in a region where this whole debate about... is i

this whole debate about... is a passionate _ this whole debate about... passionate discussion but it's this whole debate about...“ passionate discussion but it's not for most think god not a life or death issue but it can be a part of the middle east and has been recently. the middle east and has been recentl . ., ., , ~ . , recently. not only the middle east. there are to _ recently. not only the middle east. there are to be _ recently. not only the middle east. there are to be people _ recently. not only the middle east. there are to be people all - recently. not only the middle east. there are to be people all over- recently. not only the middle east. there are to be people all over the| there are to be people all over the world _ there are to be people all over the world we — there are to be people all over the world. we should _ there are to be people all over the world. we should differentiate i world. we should differentiate between — world. we should differentiate between them _ world. we should differentiate between them and _ world. we should differentiate between them and europe i world. we should differentiate between them and europe and world. we should differentiate - between them and europe and western worlds _ between them and europe and western worlds in _ between them and europe and western worlds in particular. _ between them and europe and western worlds in particular. they— between them and europe and western worlds in particular. they have - between them and europe and western worlds in particular. they have a - worlds in particular. they have a feeling _ worlds in particular. they have a feeling there. _ worlds in particular. they have a feeling there, about _ worlds in particular. they have a feeling there, about 90% - worlds in particular. they have a feeling there, about 90% of- worlds in particular. they have a feeling there, about 90% of the| feeling there, about 90% of the people — feeling there, about 90% of the people of— feeling there, about 90% of the people of the _ feeling there, about 90% of the people of the muslim _ feeling there, about 90% of the people of the muslim world i feeling there, about 90% of the i people of the muslim world believe freedom _ people of the muslim world believe freedom of— people of the muslim world believe freedom of expression _ people of the muslim world believe freedom of expression is _ people of the muslim world believe freedom of expression is practisedl freedom of expression is practised only to _ freedom of expression is practised only to insult — freedom of expression is practised only to insult muslims. _ freedom of expression is practised only to insult muslims. you - freedom of expression is practised only to insult muslims. you know. freedom of expression is practised i only to insult muslims. you know you have a _ only to insult muslims. you know you have a problem — only to insult muslims. you know you have a problem with _ only to insult muslims. you know you have a problem with cartoons - have a problem with cartoons offensive _ have a problem with cartoons offensive towards _ have a problem with cartoons offensive towards a _ have a problem with cartoons offensive towards a permit i have a problem with cartoons i offensive towards a permit about mohammed _ offensive towards a permit about mohammed and _ offensive towards a permit about mohammed and now— offensive towards a permit about mohammed and now these - offensive towards a permit about mohammed and now these the i offensive towards a permit about - mohammed and now these the satanic verses— mohammed and now these the satanic verses are _ mohammed and now these the satanic verses are blasphemous _ mohammed and now these the satanic verses are blasphemous completely. verses are blasphemous completely and is _ verses are blasphemous completely and is offensive. _ verses are blasphemous completely and is offensive. salman _ verses are blasphemous completely and is offensive. salman rushdie, . verses are blasphemous completelyl and is offensive. salman rushdie, he was very— and is offensive. salman rushdie, he was very cruel— and is offensive. salman rushdie, he was very cruel when _ and is offensive. salman rushdie, he was very cruel when he _ and is offensive. salman rushdie, he was very cruel when he talked - and is offensive. salman rushdie, he was very cruel when he talked abouti was very cruel when he talked about the prophet — was very cruel when he talked about the prophet muhammad _ was very cruel when he talked about the prophet muhammad and - was very cruel when he talked about the prophet muhammad and his- was very cruel when he talked about| the prophet muhammad and his wife and a _ the prophet muhammad and his wife and a talk— the prophet muhammad and his wife and a talk about _ the prophet muhammad and his wife and a talk about the _ the prophet muhammad and his wife and a talk about the wives _ the prophet muhammad and his wife and a talk about the wives of - the prophet muhammad and his wife and a talk about the wives of the i and a talk about the wives of the profit _ and a talk about the wives of the profit is — and a talk about the wives of the profit is realty _ and a talk about the wives of the profit is really very— and a talk about the wives of the profit is really very dangerous. . profit is really very dangerous. peopte — profit is really very dangerous. peopte i— profit is really very dangerous. people i believe _ profit is really very dangerous. people i believe 95% - profit is really very dangerous. people i believe 95% of- profit is really very dangerous. people i believe 95% of the . profit is really very dangerous. - people i believe 95% of the people never— people i believe 95% of the people never read — people i believe 95% of the people never read the _ people i believe 95% of the people never read the satanic— people i believe 95% of the people never read the satanic verses. - people i believe 95% of the people never read the satanic verses. i. people i believe 95% of the people l never read the satanic verses. i was here wherr— never read the satanic verses. i was here when it — never read the satanic verses. i was here when it was _ never read the satanic verses. i was here when it was published - never read the satanic verses. i was here when it was published in - never read the satanic verses. i was here when it was published in this. here when it was published in this country— here when it was published in this country 40 — here when it was published in this country 40 years _ here when it was published in this

country 40 years ago. _ here when it was published in this country 40 years ago. there - here when it was published in this country 40 years ago. there were i country 40 years ago. there were demonstrations— country 40 years ago. there were demonstrations all over _ country 40 years ago. there were demonstrations all over the - country 40 years ago. there were l demonstrations all over the muslim world _ demonstrations all over the muslim world and _ demonstrations all over the muslim world and many— demonstrations all over the muslim world and many people _ demonstrations all over the muslim world and many people were - demonstrations all over the muslim world and many people were killed i world and many people were killed and again— world and many people were killed and again with _ world and many people were killed and again with the _ world and many people were killed and again with the cartoons, - and again with the cartoons, offensive _ and again with the cartoons, offensive cartoons, - and again with the cartoons, offensive cartoons, again . and again with the cartoons, . offensive cartoons, again there and again with the cartoons, - offensive cartoons, again there was a huge _ offensive cartoons, again there was a huge demonstration _ offensive cartoons, again there was a huge demonstration against - offensive cartoons, again there was a huge demonstration against this i a huge demonstration against this and many— a huge demonstration against this and many peopte _ a huge demonstration against this and many people were _ a huge demonstration against this and many people were killed - a huge demonstration against this. and many people were killed again. so it is— and many people were killed again. so it is a _ and many people were killed again. so it is a dilemma _ and many people were killed again. so it is a dilemma here. _ and many people were killed again. so it is a dilemma here. people - and many people were killed again. so it is a dilemma here. people arei so it is a dilemma here. people are asking _ so it is a dilemma here. people are asking why— so it is a dilemma here. people are asking why there _ so it is a dilemma here. people are asking why there are _ so it is a dilemma here. people are asking why there are people - so it is a dilemma here. people are asking why there are people and i asking why there are people and there _ asking why there are people and there was— asking why there are people and there was a _ asking why there are people and there was a particular— asking why there are people and i there was a particular specialising in offending — there was a particular specialising in offending the _ there was a particular specialising in offending the 2— there was a particular specialising in offending the 2 billion - there was a particular specialising in offending the 2 billion muslims| in offending the 2 billion muslims all over— in offending the 2 billion muslims all over the — in offending the 2 billion muslims all over the world. _ in offending the 2 billion muslims all over the world. you _ in offending the 2 billion muslims all over the world. you know, - in offending the 2 billion muslims| all over the world. you know, they cannot— all over the world. you know, they cannot separate _ all over the world. you know, they cannot separate themselves - all over the world. you know, they cannot separate themselves in - all over the world. you know, they cannot separate themselves in the way they— cannot separate themselves in the way they like — cannot separate themselves in the way they like but— cannot separate themselves in the way they like but leave _ cannot separate themselves in the way they like but leave our - cannot separate themselves in the way they like but leave our profit i way they like but leave our profit atone _ way they like but leave our profit atone you — way they like but leave our profit alone. you should _ way they like but leave our profit alone. you should not— way they like but leave our profit alone. you should not actually. alone. you should not actually talk about _ alone. you should not actually talk about hint — alone. you should not actually talk about hint i— alone. you should not actually talk about him. i have— alone. you should not actually talk about him. i have read _ alone. you should not actually talk about him. i have read the - alone. you should not actually talk about him. i have read the satanic verses— about him. i have read the satanic verses a _ about him. i have read the satanic verses a tong _ about him. i have read the satanic verses a long time _ about him. i have read the satanic verses a long time ago. _ about him. i have read the satanic verses a long time ago. it- about him. i have read the satanic verses a long time ago. it is very. verses a long time ago. it is very difficult _ verses a long time ago. it is very difficult for — verses a long time ago. it is very difficult for order— verses a long time ago. it is very difficult for order people - verses a long time ago. it is very difficult for order people to - difficult for order people to understand _ difficult for order people to understand it. _ difficult for order people to understand it. in— difficult for order people to understand it. in english i difficult for order people toi understand it. in english or difficult for order people to - understand it. in english or arabic, but few— understand it. in english or arabic, but few other — understand it. in english or arabic, but few other languages _ understand it. in english or arabic, but few other languages was - but few other languages was pubtishing _ but few other languages was pubtishing it _ but few other languages was publishing it because - but few other languages was publishing it because simply| but few other languages was i publishing it because simply it but few other languages was - publishing it because simply it was not allowed — publishing it because simply it was not allowed to _ publishing it because simply it was not allowed to be _ publishing it because simply it was not allowed to be translated - publishing it because simply it was not allowed to be translated and l not allowed to be translated and pubtished~ — not allowed to be translated and pubtished~ a _ not allowed to be translated and published. a publishing - not allowed to be translated and - published. a publishing organisation pubtished _ published. a publishing organisation

pubtished this — published. a publishing organisation published this translation _ published. a publishing organisation published this translation of - published. a publishing organisation published this translation of it - published. a publishing organisation published this translation of it in - published this translation of it in the arab — published this translation of it in the arab world, _ published this translation of it in the arab world, it _ published this translation of it in the arab world, it will _ published this translation of it in the arab world, it will be - published this translation of it in the arab world, it will be bad. i published this translation of it in| the arab world, it will be bad. of the arab world, it will be bad. girl course the arab world, it will be bad. course are on the wrong one translator was murdered and another was attacked... translator was murdered and another was attacked. . ._ was attacked... yes, publisher attacked it- — was attacked... yes, publisher attacked it. but _ was attacked... yes, publisher attacked it. but definitely - was attacked... yes, publisher | attacked it. but definitely there are people. _ attacked it. but definitely there are people, secular— attacked it. but definitely there are people, secular people - attacked it. but definitely there are people, secular people in l attacked it. but definitely there i are people, secular people in the arab _ are people, secular people in the arab and — are people, secular people in the arab and muslim _ are people, secular people in the arab and muslim worlds - are people, secular people in the arab and muslim worlds who - are people, secular people in the arab and muslim worlds who are | arab and muslim worlds who are against — arab and muslim worlds who are against this— arab and muslim worlds who are against this kind _ arab and muslim worlds who are against this kind of _ arab and muslim worlds who are against this kind of crime - arab and muslim worlds who are against this kind of crime to - arab and muslim worlds who are l against this kind of crime to attack and offer— against this kind of crime to attack and offer sibley— against this kind of crime to attack and offer sibley because _ against this kind of crime to attack and offer sibley because he - and offer sibley because he expressed _ and offer sibley because he expressed himself- and offer sibley because he expressed himself in - and offer sibley because he expressed himself in a - and offer sibley because he expressed himself in a way| and offer sibley because he . expressed himself in a way or and offer sibley because he - expressed himself in a way or like that _ expressed himself in a way or like that and — expressed himself in a way or like that. and those _ expressed himself in a way or like that. and those people _ expressed himself in a way or like that. and those people actually i that. and those people actually atso, _ that. and those people actually also, there _ that. and those people actually also, there are _ that. and those people actually also, there are harassed - that. and those people actually also, there are harassed or- that. and those people actuallyi also, there are harassed or even attacked — also, there are harassed or even attacked by— also, there are harassed or even attacked by radical— also, there are harassed or even attacked by radical muslims. - also, there are harassed or even| attacked by radical muslims. and this fatwa. — attacked by radical muslims. and this fatwa. it _ attacked by radical muslims. and this fatwa, it was _ attacked by radical muslims. and this fatwa, it was about - attacked by radical muslims. and this fatwa, it was about 40 - attacked by radical muslims. and this fatwa, it was about 40 yearsi this fatwa, it was about 40 years ago _ this fatwa, it was about 40 years ago now— this fatwa, it was about 40 years ago now why— this fatwa, it was about 40 years ago now why they— this fatwa, it was about 40 years ago. now why they revived - this fatwa, it was about 40 years i ago. now why they revived it, while this government... _ ago. now why they revived it, while this government... infe— ago. now why they revived it, while this government. . .— this government... we won't know that until his _ this government... we won't know that until his trial _ this government... we won't know that until his trial if _ this government... we won't know that until his trial if we _ this government... we won't know that until his trial if we ever - this government... we won't know that until his trial if we ever knowl that until his trial if we ever know it. maria, iwas that until his trial if we ever know it. maria, i was going to quote you as of a minute or so left, and the sunday times accuse liberals of over 30 years having worked as the de facto accomplices of the ayatollah because he said they are resisting the task of dismantling speech. free

what is you make of that?— what is you make of that? sorry, i think that's _ what is you make of that? sorry, i think that's rubbish, _ what is you make of that? sorry, i think that's rubbish, as _ what is you make of that? sorry, i think that's rubbish, as henry - what is you make of that? sorry, i | think that's rubbish, as henry said. if notjust liberals. every side is using... wanting... i disagree. but also i thinkjust to throw out something at the very end, what is most boring to me is how difficult it is to know what we hear is true and what is not the moment. that there is speech itself has become notjust there is speech itself has become not just contested there is speech itself has become notjust contested but unreliable. and that is to me almost more worrying than attacks. i and that is to me almost more worrying than attacks.- and that is to me almost more worrying than attacks. i hope we do it from our— worrying than attacks. i hope we do it from our remaining _ worrying than attacks. i hope we do it from our remaining few _ worrying than attacks. i hope we do it from our remaining few weeks . worrying than attacks. i hope we do | it from our remaining few weeks on. thank you all and thank you very much for your company. dateline is back at the same time next week and i would just try to save a member of that magic word we all sometimes forget, empathy. goodbye.

good evening. as the cloud cleared away the far south—east during this afternoon, it took with it the humid air, so it will be much more comfortable for sleeping tonight. and there will be another opportunity to witness the spectacular northern lights. this was taken last night, as you can see, in highland, but again, although not quite as strong as last night, the aurora forecast is that it should be seen again across scotland, particularly the north of scotland. we should see some clearer skies as well. we've got showers with us through this evening, but they should start to ease away, and then you can see some clearer skies on the satellite to the west of us for a time. and the showers elsewhere ease away as well across northern ireland, across northern england and any remaining across england and wales. so, a quiet start to this

evening and overnight, but through the second half of the night, we get yet more rain pushing into scotland and northern ireland, driven in by a stronger wind. in fact, gales for the hebrides, so temperatures don't drop much here. further south, i think it will be a lot fresher. these are towns and cities, but we could get into single figures in the countryside, so the thing to take away is it will be more comfortable for sleeping. under a ridge of high pressure near the south tomorrow, more sunshine and dry weather to come, but our weather front will sink southwards and it'll still maintain some of the intensity. so, there could be some heavier bursts of rain, some thundery bursts as well as it sinks its way into southern scotland, away from northern ireland, into northern england, pushed away by those strong winds. some showers, though, will follow up, and there'll be some showers to the south of that weather front as well, but it's either side of it where we'll see more sunshine. temperatures perhaps a degree or so down today because the wind will be a bit fresher, so it will feel still pleasant in the sunshine. then through the night, that weather front weakens further as it sinks into southern parts

of england and, meaning cloudier skies potentially sunday. in fact, it could turn quite misty and murky around hills and coasts in the west with the advance of some initially quite light and patchy rain. but i think later in the day, some quite heavier rain, but instead with a ridge of high pressure further north, it looks drier for scotland, for northern england, for northern ireland as well. and as i say, feeling pleasantly warm in the strong august sunshine. but then through sunday evening and overnight, it looks as if many areas will see a dampening of the ground as that rain moves its way eastwards, perhaps about ten millimetres, possibly more over the higher ground. not guaranteed for all. it's a showery band of rain, and showers follow in the north thereafter, but it looks drier from midweek on further south.

this is bbc news. the headlines at eight. fears the nhs will be overloaded as people's health will suffer from rising energy gusts with households forced to choose between eating meals and heating their homes. el shafee el sheikh, one of four islamic state militants known as the beatles, gets life in prison in america, over the deaths of four us citizens. lead that sentencing make clear to all who dare to kidnap, torture or kill any american citizen abroad that usjustice will find kill any american citizen abroad that us justice will find you wherever you are. in a phone conservation with president macron vladimir putin agrees on need to send inspectors to the zaporizhzhia nuclear plant in ukraine while russia threatens to cut off power supplies to the plant.