this is bbc news. the latest headlines will follow this programme. welcome to talking business, here's what's coming up. overpower, overtake, overcome — the words of all—time highest earning female athlete serena williams. i'm going to take a look at the booming dollars finally beginning to flow into the world of women's sports. england's lionesses recently won the euros tournament in front of record crowds, in stadiums, on screens and on the streets. that win and the reaction,

just the latest marker in the rise of women's sports, but with fans and brands hungry for more, are the building blocks in place to fulfil all that potential? i will be discussing all that with the director of the english women's football association — soccer to many of us. and a four—time us olympic medal winner now running the sports innovation lab that focuses the spending focuses on the spending habits of women sports fans around the world. plus, levelling the playing field — why is there such a difference in pay between men's and women's sport? when will that gap start closing? i'll find out from sophie goldschmidt, who has hammered out deals from basketball to rugby to golf and brought in equal prize money to the world of surfing. she's now the big boss of us ski and snowboard.

wherever you'rejoining me from around the world, a warm welcome to the show. women's sports is on the rise. here in the uk, the recent euro women's football championship drew record crowds at stadiums and millions more viewers than ever before. thousands of fans took to the streets of london to celebrate their team's victory, the first for an english football team since the 1960s, with the tournament creating a whole new generation of fans. but questions are always asked in these moments of how to build on the momentum created by these big occasions to grow women's sport as a whole. this could really be a turning point for women in sport. as a group of girls, we would love to see that change. we set out to inspire

the next generation, to inspire the nation, but girls in sport, it could be a big turning point, that's what we are excited for. it's not just football on the up and up, with crowds for women's cricket, rugby and basketball all breaking records. but currently the gap in money between women's and men's sports is vast. let's take a look at some of the numbers. global sport was worth around $350 billion in 2021, but only a fraction of that was coming from women's sports, with predictions putting that value at under $1 billion for the year. but that is changing with the growth in sports like women's football leading the charge, it's forecast to be worth over $1 billion per year in the uk alone by the end of the decade. those predictions and the obvious results seen of late have brands and broadcasters realising the huge potential. according to one international study, nearly half of those

asked wanted to, and would, watch more women's sport if only there was more on their screens. more good news from another study — fans of women's sport are 25% more likely to buy sponsors products than for men's sports. and what a bumper year it is for showcasing women's sport, with some events rolled over due to the pandemic. we've had the winter olympics, the tour de femmes, the commonwealth games. and just around the corner, the women's rugby union and rugby league world cup. but it is football that's leading the charge. next year, it's the big one, the fifa women's world cup in australia and new zealand, where they will be hoping the sporting action on the pitch and business action off the pitch will continue to grow. so, to gauge the state of play in the home of football in england on the back of that historic win in the euros, i caught up with the director of the women's professional game at the english

football association. kelly simmons, a pleasure having you on my show. let's start with this. just how important do you think that win in the euros could be for the professional game here in england? hugely important. the whole tournament was important. it shows the full potential of women's football, if you invest in something, market it well, people will come in huge numbers. it wasn't just the final, with over 87,000 people at a sold—out wembley stadium. there were stadiums full right across the country, across the whole tournament. and notjust england games. i knew england games would do well. what i was pleased with was the size of the crowds for the non—england games, which just shows the appetite for great women's sport and great women's football. it has showcased the quality of the product, the fabulous athletes and ambassadors that we have, and the potential for further growth in the women's game. notjust in this country but across the world.

how much of a difference have you seen from sponsors since the win? we had those enormous crowds in trafalgar square. england finally winning a football trophy. have the phones been ringing off the hook? it really has. it hasn'tjust been since the tournament. we have not won this by chance. this is part of a long—term strategy to invest in the whole game. a number of brands before the euros win were investing significantly in the women's game. but fair to say, since the final the phone has been ringing, i'm sure notjust the fa's phone, but the brands are ringing the clubs as well. big interest in brands that want to get behind what is a fantastic cause in helping to develop women's football and put it very much on the map. where do you see the best places for that money to go? in terms of trying to build and maintain on this momentum?

great question — we need to invest right across the game. my area is the professional game. we need brands to come in and help us to invest in the league and invest in the clubs, to help move the game forward. we have seen with barclays as title sponsor, they don't just invest in the professional game, they're also putting significant money behind our ambition that there's equal opportunities in schools. we are seeing brands come in who want to support development around the whole game — female empowerment, female opportunities, from little girls who may have been excluded from playing football, right through to professional football. currently, still this vast difference in the money between the men's and women's leagues, with top men's players being paid more in a week than many of the top women's players get for a year. is that all set to change? it is changing.

because in the women's game, obviously the salaries are going up year on year, notjust in this country, but globally, there is a growth in salaries, and commercial endorsements particularly off the back of the euros, where probably for the first time those players became household names. job one is to build the women's game to be sustainable in its own right. to put those foundations in place that will help the women's game grow — investment in people around the club, facilities, stadia, marketing budgets, all the things needed to help amplify and grow women's sport. from there, over a period of time the women's salaries will continue to close that gap. the supporters of women's football tend to be younger, and unsurprisingly more female than the men's game, which certainly looks great for the future, but how do you encourage more of those audiences

to get involved, week in, week out? 0ur challenge and opportunity is that in the euros there were significant numbers of purchasers, over 40% were female, a quarter were children, we saw a big family audience, so it's a real opportunity in the women's game. it is price friendly. it is a welcoming, safe place. a very inclusive place to bring your family. we can pull more families in alongside the traditional football audience that we know are there. at the moment, the women players are perhaps more positive role models than some of their male counterparts — unsullied by scandals or stories of huge wealth. how do you maintain that for professional women players going forward? i know some of the players very well, they are fantastic role models and ambassadors. what's so pleasing is how much

they care about the women's game, they care about the next generation having different opportunities than they had — they had to fight for where they've got to. i don't have to worry about... of all the things we have to do, i know that they will continue to advocate so well for the women's game. they are a fantastic bunch of young women who really care about the sport. on that positive note, kelly, a real pleasure having you on the show. best of luck with everything, i would love to talk to you soon. thanks very much. for more on plugging into some of that untapped demand for women's sport and the potential dollars to be made, i've been speaking to us olympic gold medallist and now the ceo, the big boss of fan analytics company, sports innovation lab. angela ruggiero, a real pleasure having you on my show. thank you for your time. we are using the recent win by the english women's soccer team to explore the growing

business of women's sport. record numbers watching at home and in the stadiums. how important has that tournament been for women's sport? it was a pivotal moment in the course of history. i remember the 1999 world cup, sold—out crowd at rose bowl stadium, that put women's sports, women's soccer specifically, on the map. i think the euros more recently have been able to recatalyse the conversation around the sport itself, women's sport, and just the growth of the game in general. we have been using numbers from some international research that shows people are keen to see more and more women's sports, if only there was more to watch. how do you go about getting better access? fine to watch. how do you go about getting better access?- getting better access? one of the number — getting better access? one of the number one _ getting better access? one of the number one reason -

getting better access? one of the number one reason is, . getting better access? one of i the number one reason is, there hasn't been enough supply. the demand is there, a lot of fans going online, downloading apps, following athletes directly, trying to get their hands on any content they can, and a lot comes in a digitalformat. that shows us there is demand out there, and the supply side of there, and the supply side of the market, when linear tv puts it on tv in a typical broadcast view, those same fans are going to tune in, and more so. a lot of numbers being thrown out in terms of rating, the amount of people that watched the euros. we have been studying these digital interactions, which show there is a massive audience, it is untapped and it wants to spend more time and money on the women's side of the game. money on the women's side of the game-— the game. research from your com an the game. research from your company and _ the game. research from your company and others _ the game. research from your company and others showed i the game. research from your. company and others showed how fans of women's sport might be seriously good news for brands and sponsors. more likely to buy into associated products and spend more time with them.

what is behind those findings? in our research, we found it is about the quality of the fan versus the quantity of the fan. most male sports drive enormous eyeballs, think of the euros on the men's side. everyone expects the ratings to be high, the number of tickets to be sold is high, what we are seeing in the research, while the quantity isn't as high on the quantity isn't as high on the women's side, the quality is much deeper. fans of women's sports, including men and women, you are spending more money with the brands that sponsor your teams and your leagues. you are watching longer, literally spending more time consuming digital and linear content, watching longer, which is very valuable today, when the consumer may not have an attention span, but they are watching longer on the women's side of the equation. they are deeper, more loyal and engaged fans. if you are thinking about growth, going

off to the women's market is more valuable, because these consumers are deeper, more engaged, they are going to spend more money, and that big money if you can grow that fan base. i money if you can grow that fan base. ., money if you can grow that fan base. . ., ., ., ., base. i am wondering, are a lot of these new — base. i am wondering, are a lot of these new fans, _ base. i am wondering, are a lot of these new fans, so _ base. i am wondering, are a lot of these new fans, so to - base. i am wondering, are a lot| of these new fans, so to speak? people who weren't previously watching? different from what the markets are accustomed to? a lot of them are just sports fans. again, they don't really care about gender, theyjust want great sport, great entertainment. they want a great atmosphere. if you are going to invest and build on the atmosphere in the fan experience, in the product on the field, these fans that have grown up in a different era, not looking at gender, looking at sport, theyjust not looking at gender, looking at sport, they just want to be entertained and have a good time. that is what you are seeing on the women's side of the market, finally able to pack the stadiums and able to bring quality teams to the equation. able to invest in the

fan experience. the market is absolutely there. some of these fans might see it for the first time and go, that was a great time, let's go back. and now the rest of the market, the traditional market, is waking up traditional market, is waking up on the women's game. they are more akin to start—ups. 0n the men's side, it is more like a private, longer term, yeah, it's growing but will it grow at the same pace as the women's side of the market? if i had a $1 bet today, i would put it in the women's market and play the long game. this the women's market and play the long game-— long game. as you say, women's sort long game. as you say, women's sport seems — long game. as you say, women's sport seems to — long game. as you say, women's sport seems to be _ long game. as you say, women's sport seems to be in _ long game. as you say, women's sport seems to be in an - sport seems to be in an incredible time of amazing growth, but the commercial differences to the men are still vast, so i am wondering, what are some of the obstacles in place? is itjust a matter of time that the gap will close? ., ., of time that the gap will close? . ., , ., , close? our data shows the urowth close? our data shows the growth of _ close? our data shows the growth of the _ close? our data shows the growth of the school - close? our data shows the growth of the school of. close? our data shows the | growth of the school of the women's market is, you are not only growing fans at a better

pace, you are retaining them at a better pace, so the market is ripe for investment. that will be the differentiator between women's exports growing at an exponential pace and at an average pace, catching up to the men's side of the market. hearts and minds are starting to change, young people have played sport, men and women are growing up saying they will watch either or, theyjust want to be entertained. the key differential right now, private equity firms and individuals investing on the women's side of the game at the same rate or more so than they have on the men's side. most men's teams lose money but valuations go up year after year. they are playing the long game, banking on the next selling valuation being higher. that is a different game, whereas on the women's side of the equation, you put money in and you want it out quickly and you can't

believe you are in the red for a few years. that is starting to shift, globally we are seeing women's sport as an asset class, very early on, it might be more risky, but if you invest in the athletes, the fan experience, the whole ecosystem at the same rate as you have with the men, you have a great product, a great market that once more. you have to invest, thatis once more. you have to invest, that is the key differentiator. how do you see the future? what is the picture of the future for women's sport?- is the picture of the future for women's sport? the future is very bright. _ for women's sport? the future is very bright, it's _ for women's sport? the future is very bright, it's very - for women's sport? the future is very bright, it's very early i is very bright, it's very early stages, but look no further than the olympics. practically 50% women, it is the largest global sports brand in the world. the ratings at an all—time high. again, that is driven notjust by male athletes, it's driven by men and women. thinking about the success of the olympics and the

business of the olympics, it sets the stage for what to expect across all sports. it might take a few decades, but we are trending in the right direction. we are trending in the right direction-— direction. indeed you are. angela. — direction. indeed you are. angela. an _ direction. indeed you are. angela, an absolute - direction. indeed you are. i angela, an absolute delight having you on the show, good luck with everything and i will checkin luck with everything and i will check in with you soon. staying on the theme of women's sport, my last guest was heading for a tennis career before an injury made her change plans. instead she went into marketing at adidas, and has since worked on the commercial side of the nba, the commercial side of the nba, the rugby football union and the rugby football union and the world surfing league. she is no stranger to negotiating multi—million—dollar deals, so i caught up with her in her latest role as the big boss of us ski and snowboard. sophie goldschmidt, a pleasure having you on. let's start with this. do you think we are now at some sort of tipping point for women's sport, thanks to the euros, and a fabulous year of

global sporting events? i certainly hope so. i feel momentum has been building for many years now, but you do have these opportunities where you take a bigger leap forward. certainly in the uk and europe, the euros was a fantastic success and it got a lot of exposure over here. women's soccer as we call it over here, rather than football, has been growing and high on the radar for a few years, especially with the us national team being so dominant. some of the coverage that has been very high profile over the last couple of years. i was back in europe during the euros and it was such an awesome experience. is there a danger in some sporting circles that the momentum gained from these huge events starts to peter out? for example, some of the rising female us stars from the winter olympics falling out of focus. 0lympics falling out of focus. how do you stop that happening? it's always a challenge for

sports and entertainment in general because there is so much competition. we are all on the verge of having add these days, with social media, it is hard to have longevity because the new cycle is so fast. but the new cycle is so fast. but the more great moments you have, it becomes commonplace and accepted, and that is big for women's sports, just to become part of the general sports narrative and i believe that happening. we have more stars cutting through across a wide variety of sports. with us skiand wide variety of sports. with us ski and snowboard, we are trying to punch above our weight with the other sports. are we going to get headlines every day? that would be unrealistic. but with each year i hope we take up more and more of the winter and spring season. of the winter and spring season-— of the winter and spring season. ~ . , . season. we have been hearing about the _ season. we have been hearing about the great _ season. we have been hearing about the great marketing - about the great marketing potential that women's sports can offer. do you think it is becoming easier to make the case to potential sponsors that women's sport is most definitely worth backing?

absolutely, i have experienced that first hand. a couple of things have changed, a, just societal pressure on drams investing in men's sport, you better invest in women's sport, because the fans demand it. in this day and age, you need to get behind it. —— en brands investing in men's sport. the second thing is, it's a more commercially interesting enterprise. there is more data, the fan base is growing. the stories these women have the tell from a brand perspective are much more relatable. 0ften are much more relatable. often these women have one or two jobs, maybe they have a family, they are living normal lives as well as being superhuman athletes as well. from a brand perspective that's really encouraging, and they know these amazing long models are going to relate to a much broader audience than perhaps other athletes in male sports. —— role models. you have been

involved in installing equal prize money for men and women inserting, it is important to have this reward system. it’s have this reward system. it's what we all _ have this reward system. it�*s what we all need to strive for. the economic reality is you want to make sure it is sustainable. if you suddenly invest or pay women in a way that actually the business can't support, that doesn't do anyone any good. unfortunately we have seen over the years different teams and leagues globally on the women's side of things not succeed. as they might have. sometimes we can try to go too far, too fast. having said that, when the data is there, when the audience is there, ifeel very is there, when the audience is there, i feel very strongly the prize money needs to increase accordingly. but to go to equal prize money, you do need the commercial interest and support. it can't always change overnight. we were very fortunate in the world is earthly to have an incredible supportive ownership group who felt they wanted to pay it forward. —— world surfing

league. we were in a financial position where we could afford to do it and we got commercial interest, but i know it's not the same in other sports. i work for the rfu in rugby and we made tremendous strides but to think we could pay the women the same as the men, the women's team wouldn't have been able to exist a very long. but it is changing over time. it's what we should strive for. you have been _ what we should strive for. you have been part _ what we should strive for. you have been part of _ what we should strive for. you have been part of broadcasting negotiations through your career. we are hearing it's about gaining exposure. how do you go about putting a value to broadcasters? it’s you go about putting a value to broadcasters?— broadcasters? it's a really interesting _ broadcasters? it's a really interesting point - broadcasters? it's a really interesting point and - broadcasters? it's a really interesting point and at i broadcasters? it's a really. interesting point and at the moment it's more of an art than a science. 0ften women's sports rate below men's, but we are seeing more and more instances where that's not the case. 0ften where that's not the case. often when they are rating below, it's because they haven't had the consistent exposure and promotional marketing. if you had one wnba

game a week for example on espn versus 11—5 nba games, the fans struggle to find it and they don't get that kind of consistent exposure. so it is no surprise the audiences are lower. if you gave women's sports the same platform, i think you would find the audiences would be very similar, in some cases exceed. we have seen that time and again. we have seen that time and aaain. ., ., ,. , we have seen that time and aain. ., ., ,. , again. you have described your 'ob as a again. you have described your job as a bit _ again. you have described your job as a bit of _ again. you have described your job as a bit of a _ again. you have described your job as a bit of a whirlwind - again. you have described your job as a bit of a whirlwind so i job as a bit of a whirlwind so far, dropping into the beijing winter far, dropping into the beijing winter olympics during the pandemic, getting to grips with a whole new organisation. how do you see the prospect of winter sports going forward? i am very bullish on the prospects. as you mention, a bit of a whirlwind, in many ways a fantastic time to start, sown in the deep end during covid getting ready for an 0lympics. coming to the start of the next strategic cycle. looking to transform the organisation in various ways.

for me, i have loved my first eight months on the job. snow sports is that a real tipping point. i now have an even deeper appreciation for what these athletes are doing. when you talk about superhuman, it is interesting, formula 1 comes up is interesting, formula 1 comes up at the moment, but when you compare those drivers to what the downhillers are doing, they go 100 miles an hour without anything around them, putting their bodies on the line in a way i don't think any athletes elsewhere are doing. the same with the half pipe athletes, jumping ten feet or more above the top of the pipe, if they get it wrong, if they are off by an inch, they can be in a very treacherous situation. for me, look, for good and bad reasons, dangerand me, look, for good and bad reasons, danger and really understanding how much risk people are taking draws attention, it draws in viewers, so there is a real opportunity for us to bring to life in a more meaningful and relatable

way just what these athletes are doing-— are doing. so say, a real pleasure _ are doing. so say, a real pleasure talking - are doing. so say, a real pleasure talking to - are doing. so say, a real pleasure talking to you | are doing. so say, a real. pleasure talking to you and are doing. so say, a real- pleasure talking to you and i would like to check in with you soon. that is it for this week, i hope you enjoyed it. keep up with the latest on our global economy on the bbc website or the app. you can follow me on twitter. you can get me on bbc aaron. i'll see you soon, goodbye. hello. many of us can expect some quite murky conditions at times during tuesday. that is one symptom of some very warm and humid air wafting its way across the country. there will be a few showers, equally some spells of sunshine but generally quite a lot of cloud. low pressure in charge at the moment, one wriggling weather front which will bring

some rain during tuesday night and into wednesday, some other weather fronts focusing some showers in places, but this very humid air picking up a lot of moisture over the atlantic as it moves in our direction, so that will bring some rather misty, murky conditions, some fog patches to start tuesday, particularly murky for the coasts and hills of wales and the south—west. we will see quite large amounts of cloud on tuesday, bringing some rain at times, but a little sunnier in the south and east. a few showers for western scotland in the afternoon. but it will feel warm and muggy, 26 for london, 27 in norwich, and that muggy feel certainly continues into the night. we will see a lot of cloud, still some mist and fog and heavy bursts of rain starting to develop especially across some western and northern parts, but overnight lows, 1a in glasgow, 18 in cardiff and in london, so to start wednesday, a lot of cloud

and some outbreaks of rain. there is uncertainty as to where exactly this line of wet weather will end up, pulses of heavier rain moving along it, but to the north and west of that band of cloud and rain, it will feel cooler and fresher to the south—east of that band of cloud and rain, while the heat will be building up to around 29 degrees in parts of east anglia. but that band of cloud and rain in association with this weather front should shift its way south eastwards into thursday, probably not much rain left on it by this stage. could just see a few showers into the south—east corner, we will keep an eye on that. more cloud working into northern ireland in western scotland with splashes of rain, but for many there will be sunshine and a fresh feel by this stage, still 27 degrees by this stage in london, but elsewhere generally high teens or low 20s. as we head into the weekend, a bank holiday for many, and there will be a lot of dry weather around. more cloud and may be some rain for scotland and northern ireland, and a fresher feel for all of us.

welcome to bbc news. i'm simon pusey. our top stories... three, two, one... mission to the moon — nasa gives the go—ahead for its latest test flight — artemis will launch next monday. we are going for a launch, which is absolutely outstanding. this day has been a long time coming. lawyers for donald trump take legal action following the raid on his florida home — claiming it was an attempt to stop him running for office. when the lights go out — shanghai's skyline is cast into darkness — as china's severe drought leads to a power shortage. return of the liberator. brazil's first emperor arrives

to celebrate its