we will have the stories at the top of the hour as news days continues straight after hardtalk. continues straight after hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur and this is lake como in northern italy, venue for the ambrosetti forum, which every year brings together politicians from around the world. my guest today is one of them, republican senator lindsey graham, who is perhaps the loudest, most loyal defender of donald trump in the us congress. now, mr trump seems intent on running for the white house again in 2024, but his legal troubles are mounting, so republicans face a decision. can they afford to remain the party of trump?

senator lindsey graham, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. senator, you are deep in the political trenches with donald trump, and right now that looks like a pretty unhealthy place to be. does it feel that way to you? no. if you're a republican, it's a good place to be because he's very popular among republicans. emerson college, not exactly, you know, a right—wing polling firm, has trump up in pennsylvania and some of the swing states, so this election coming up in 80 days, they want to make it about trump. republicans want to make it

about a failed presidency of biden and we will see where it shakes out. but no, the truth of the matter is that president trump and the republican party is seen as successful on issues that matter to the country, to conservatism, the court, the border, strong national security. so he's in good standing with republicans. i'm going to stop you if i may. because it seems to me politics isn't just about polling, it's not just about appealing to your core base and activists. you're right. that's where i was headed. it really is about also showing respect for principals, for institutions, and for the democracy that you live under. and right now it really looks as though there are very serious questions about whether donald trump is respecting the laws of the united states of america. yeah, yeah, you know, that's what people will be voting on. i don't think that's what people are going to be voting on. i think that's a bunch of new york times—stirred stuff. the bottom line is, we live in america, right, where you had hillary clinton

set up a server in her basement to get classified information in a way she shouldn't have gotten it. 30,000 e—mails that were subpoenaed were somehow missing. and she got a pass. i don't know what happened... there was a federal investigation. that's right. and the finding was, after a long investigation, there was no wilful intent to abuse the rules. so let's see what happens with trump. let's see. but i just want to ask you, given that i talked about you being in the trenches with trump, do you find it in any way difficult to explain what donald trump was doing with 33 boxes of secret, top—secret, highly confidential information, which he had taken out of the white house, which we now know, thanks to federal findings, that investigators found at various different points in the mar—a—lago estate, including in his personal office. can you explain that?

no, i don't. i haven't talked to him about it, but i don't think that's going to be the issue that decides the 2022 election. he is under investigation. hillary clinton was under investigation. after all the things she did, nothing happened with her. we will see what happens with him. she cooperated. he clearly has not cooperated. he was subpoenaed in may. injune his people said they had handed over all of the possibly relevant documents and that was plainly not true. all i can say is, i don't know what happened. i do know this. what happened with her. we will see what happens with him. the point i'm trying to make is, the hunter biden laptop, republicans love talking about that. liberals love talking about everything with trump. i guess what i'm trying to tell everybody, i tell everybody at home, people want to know what you're going to do about inflation, what you're going to do about crime, what you're going to do about a broken border.

and the question, is trump fit to serve, that will be a question. is biden capable of serving another term? that'll be a question. but the 2022 election is going to be about congress and we'll see how that shakes out. if i may stick to trump, because that's what really matters right now. after that fbi raid in mar—a—lago we saw a spike, and we are still seeing a spike of threats, very real threats being made on fbi offices and fbi agents. totally inappropriate, totally inappropriate. well, if that's inappropriate, why did you, lindsey graham, go on to fox news and say, you know what, if trump is prosecuted for mishandling classified information, you can expect riots on the streets of the united states? why did you say that? number one, i don't want riots, from black lives matter or anybody else. i said it because, i travel the world and i understand what happens when people lose respect for the rule of law. and you don't want me to talk about it, but i am going to talk about it.

hillary clinton's compromised, classified information, in the eyes of many, including me. classified information ended up being on anthony weiner�*s laptop. the bottom line is, i accepted the results of the investigation. the crossfire hurricane investigation was corrupt. i supported mueller not being replaced as a special counsel because you can't fire people because you don't agree with them. but the work product in crossfire hurricane, social media outlets were told by the fbi the hunter laptop thing is russian disinformation. in october before an election. so there is a real deep scepticism that there are elements of departmentjustice and the fbi that hate trump's guts and it doesn't matter what you do to get him... if i may say so, senator, what you said about riots in the streets if he is prosecuted, appeared to be rationalising, maybe even justifying, more political violence... no, i'm not trying

to justify... ..from the right. i'm not trying to justify violence. i rejected it on january the 6th. those people who seized the capitol, i hope they all go to jail. i'm not interested in pardoning them. donald trump is. well, i think that's a mistake. the vice president raised bail money for people who rioted in the black lives matter protests, so i've been pretty consistent here. what i am saying is that the department ofjustice and fbi, when it comes to trump, there seems to be no rules among some. and if you're going to prosecute the likely nominee in 2024, the former president of the united states, for mishandling classified information, and that's it, after hillary clinton, it's going to create a major problem in the united states. if he's done more, then he'll be held accountable. just one more point on your rhetoric and whether you are behaving responsibly. the former george w bush ethics chief, richard painter, a long—time republican said this.

"a senator who talks in those terms, of riots in the streets if trump is indicted, should be expelled from the senate because he in effect is inciting january the 6th all over again." yeah, i know him, he hates trump, he hates me. i'm just being honest with you. i was asked a question. if at the end of the day you give clinton a pass and you go after trump forjust mishandling classified information, you will have a real problem in america. and what i hope is we will have a legal system we all can trust. i'm not asking to stop the investigation against president trump. i'm asking the media not to try him before we get all the information and i'm trying to tell you and your audience that the topics that will decide the next election won't be this. but when you talk about rioting on the streets, can you understand that some will make a link between that and joe biden, whojust a day or two ago made a very important speech to

the american public saying, "the republican party is dominated, driven and intimidated by trump, and maga — make america great again — republicans, and their extreme ideology." he is saying there are dark forces at work who are inciting violence and i think he may see you as one of them. the bottom line here is i don't want violence at any level. and the speech by president biden was pathetic in my view and desperate. because he's running for re—election based on the idea you should be afraid of donald trump, i guess me, and every other conservative republican in the country. what he should be running on is his record, and he can't. we will get to his record injust a moment. the idea that it is only partisan democrats led byjoe biden who are accusing the trump wing of the republican party of irresponsibility, of threatening america's key institutions, that's nonsense.

because people like liz cheney, highly respected conservatives, who has senior positions in your party for many years... i like liz. liz cheney says that donald trump is now running a crusade that is undermining american democracy. your lens of what's going on in america is a bit cloudy. liz cheney hates trump's guts. because she hates what donald trump is doing to america. all i can say is that donald trump i think was a consequential president in terms of making america strong, securing the border, taking the fight to al-qaeda in the most effective way. we'll go on and on about his accomplishments but january the 6th was a bad day for the country. but it's notjust about january the 6th. it's about here we are, today, about to go into midterm elections, with donald trump, who de facto is the most important figure in your party who may well be about to announce a run for the presidency in 202a. a man who still says

the election was stolen from him, in effectjoe biden is an illegitimate president and that the united states right now is a delegitimised democracy. he is undermining all of the institutions of your state and you still back him. here's what i would say. the january 6th committee doesn't have one dissenting voice on it. it would be... you know, the soviet union would be proud of this committee. there is nobody on that committee asking questions about, if it was all trump's fault, why did people the night before show up and plant bombs around the democratic national committee? but senator, that contention that there is no dissenting voices is precisely because the republicans refused to serve on it, except for two. there are two republicans, kinzinger and cheney, who just don't fit your view of what the republicans should think. no, no, you're completely wrong. the republican party offered jim jordan and a few others

to serve, and the democrats said no because they didn't like their point of view. we are 80 days before an election. the former president of the united states�* home was raided by the fbi. he is the likely nominee. you are 80 days before an election and there is a suspicion in the air on the conservative side that this is an effort to continue to go after trump, no matter how you do it, it's justified if you are trying to get him. so what i think is going to happen is biden�*s speech in philadelphia is going to fall on deaf ears. most americans have problems with trump, kind of liked his policies, and 70% of the country thinks we are going in the wrong direction on major issues, and that will decide 2022. we will get to those issues injust a moment. one more actually very personal reflection on the legal travails and the trench you are currently in with donald trump. you yourself have been

subpoenaed to face a grand jury in georgia because of a conversation you had with the secretary of state in georgia right after the november 2020 election about what would happen to mail—in votes. a lot of people are very interested in why you made that call and what you discussed with the secretary of state, and you it seems are intent on refusing to testify. why? number one, iam united states senator. it was myjob to vote as to whether or not to certify the results of the election in each state. and i voted to certify all of them, including georgia. i had a real problem with mail—in voting, notjust in georgia but other places. i think i have an obligation to understand the facts before i vote and my case is on appeal. the subpoena was... because you are desperate not to testify under oath? no, i am making sure that county prosecutors, which you're ok with in this case, can't call senators in county courts all over

the country when they make a decision within the confines of being a senator. to my democratic friends, if you like what she's doing to me, there will be a county prosecutor coming for you one day. we have in our constitution, speech and immunity privileges so this very thing can't happen, that you can't have subdivisions of the government opening up — and this is a county prosecutor by the way. so the bottom line is, let's see what the courts do, but my position is, i was doing myjob as a united states senator and that is privileged... or were you doing yourjob as a friend and ally of donald trump, trying to reverse the result of the election by getting a whole bunch of mail—in votes removed from the tally in georgia? i voted to serve at the election. everything i did was proper in my view and we will see what the courts say about it. but if i thought the election, you know, i had concerns about it but i voted to certify it because i think i did my homework. as you have rightly said,

there's a lot of politics in the united states right now and it's not all about donald trump and legal travails. a lot of it is about what the american public are getting from their government. joe biden, it seems, has begun to turn the tide of opinion about his achievements. because in the last few weeks he has actually delivered on a bunch of key promises. and the polls show that his approval rating is actually rising into the low to mid 40s percent. it is. you perhaps assumed there would be a tidal wave of republican support in the house and senate elections in the midterms and it may not happen that way. you know, we are 80 days out and i feel good about a republican takeover of both the house and the senate. but the infrastructure bill, the bipartisan infrastructure bill, is $1 trillion. i voted for it. the gun reform bill,

i voted for it. these are achievements of the biden presidency. he deserves credit. i deserve credit. i guess my point is, i don't mind working with president biden and my democratic colleagues when it makes sense to me. the american rescue plan was throwing gas on a fire in my view. the last... the inflation reduction act i think is going to make problems worse. so we did gun reform, the biggest in 30 years. we did an infrastructure bill that was a fraction of what build back better would have been but it made sense to me. so the bottom line is, when 70% of the people believe we are headed in the wrong direction, the party in power usually loses seats in midterms to begin with, but that's a huge number. you can slice the polls different ways. the polls also show that democrats, compared with

republicans across the country, actually coming up, almost in a tie now. in fact, it looks less likely that you republicans will take the senate because americans it seems quite like whatjoe biden is doing on, for example, massive spending on climate change measures, new renewables infrastructure. they love what he's doing sponsoring massive investment in semiconductor industries across the country. which i voted for, by the way. what i'm painting is a picture where the democrats have found ways of reaching the american people at a time of economic difficulty and you republicans don't appear to have answers. what i'm trying to tell you, you're missing a lot in your analysis. there are two issues that really loom large. three, i guess. crime is up everywhere. the border is a complete national security nightmare. and inflation is crushing the middle class. generally speaking we do well in off years — the party out of power, just us, me, the republican party.

i think it will be the averages plus. usually we pick up about 25 seats in off—year elections, the party out of power. i think it'll be a little north of that. you are optimistic but i want to go into two issues briefly that might disturb your optimism. one is abortion. i am sure you have seen the polls. two thirds of american women do not approve of the supreme court overturning the roe versus wade decision which in essence gave a constitutional right to a woman for an abortion in the us. women don't like it. in 1973, from the time of our founding until 1973, abortion was decided by each state. then you had a supreme court take that issue away from elected officials and created a constitutional right to an abortion, which doesn't exist in my view. they manufactured a right out of the constitution that is popular with many, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

so what will happen in america is that each state, including my own, will decide the issue of abortion based on what they think is best for the people in that state. what about those republicans in congress who say if they get a majority in both houses they will push for nationwide legislation, massively restricting abortion in every state? i don't know who you are talking about but i know this — there are not 60 votes in the united states senate to ban abortion at the federal level. i will be introducing legislation in the fall to make america more in line with the european countries that ban abortion after 15 weeks. so the abortion debate, you're right, is hotly contested, but women, i understand what you're saying, it's a difficult issue. it could be a vote loser for you. according to the new york times, trump privately believes it is a vote loser for republicans. here is why i don't get will change the tide significantly. i think women, you know, people in charge of households,

more time than not are the mothers, are worried about putting food on the table, the economy, crime, being able to send your kids to school and go downtown safely. a final point, specific policy areas. nothing to do with the political horse race in the united states, it's arguably way more important. you are here in italy to talk to europeans, particularly about the state of the ukraine war. yes. about european and american partnership to try to help the ukrainians win that war. can you hand on heart say that if your man donald trump were in the white house you think the american stand confronting putin would be as strong as it has been under joe biden? i can say hand on my heart that if donald trump were still president, putin would not have invaded ukraine. afghanistan set in motion, our withdrawal under biden... hang on, i will stop you right now. let's not talk about afghanistan. i am saying if donald trump was president putin would not have gone into ukraine. donald trump on the eve of

the invasion said it was very smart of vladimir putin to in effect annex those two regions in the donbas. why didn't he do it when trump was president? what makes you think he wouldn't have done it? he didn't do it. trump was president for four years. we lost the east under biden, i mean 0bama. if you think it's an accident that trump gets out of office, biden pulls out of afghanistan in the most shameful, dishonourable way and all of a suddenly everyone gets squirrely in the world, that is pretty naive. and you seriously think donald trump would have spent more than $10 billion already giving military assistance to volodymyr zelensky? you think that donald trump would have committed to defeating putin and getting him out of all ukrainian territory? yeah. we know donald trump said the ukrainians should have given crimea once and for all to russia. here's what i think. i think if donald trump were president putin would not

have invaded ukraine. the bottom line is, china is just all over taiwan. there is a weakness in the world that started with afghanistan and it needs to be repaired. congress has been very bipartisan. we broughtjoe biden to the dance. we begged for preinvasion sanctions and the administration fought us tooth and nail. i've got legislation with bob menendez, who's here at this conference, to beef up our relationship with taiwan and they are trying to stop it from moving forward. let's just say this, i appreciate what president biden has done. he has signed into law very robust aid. i want to say something about your country. of all the countries out there, from the right, left and centre, great britain, the british people, have really been stalwarts for ukraine and i think there is bipartisanship. i want to end by reflecting on what might happen next in the united states. 0k. you have said to me in the past, in the end it's the mid—term elections of 2022

which will define whether donald trump will be the republican nominee in 202a. it will have a lot to do with it, yes it will. what will it take for you, the ultimate trump loyalist, to walk away from donald trump? is it the republicans don't take both chambers of the us congress? is it if he gets criminal prosecut... criminal charges? what is it that would get you to leave donald trump? here's what i would say. that's a ridiculous question. it's not about what. .. you know, isupported the president. i still do. when he wanted to pull out of syria i was his worst nightmare. i like president trump. i understand the problems with president trump, trust me! i've had my time with him too. i think if he runs in 2024... and you think you will. i think he will. and if he'll talk about, it doesn't have to be this way, folks.

the border, too many illegal crossings. crime rampant, inflation out of control, terrorism on the rise, i think he would have a hell of a case. you see this in polling. you may not like all the things i do and say, and i get that too, but i know how to fix the problems that have been caused by this presidency ofjoe biden. if he does that, i think he has a good chance of winning. senator lindsey graham, we have to end it there but i thank you so much for being on hardtalk. thank you. hello, it has been a weekend

of extremes across the uk, warm sunshine helping temperatures up to 26 celsius across east anglia, torrential rain, particularly for northern ireland and scotland, and that heavy rain has been coming from this area of low pressure which is the dominant feature in the week ahead. so, for those of us that need the rain, there will be some notable rain in the forecast over the coming days. there will be some warm spells of sunshine, too, and gradually the temperatures will start to come down. and we start monday with some rain across north—east england and across scotland, that will be pushing its way north and east words, it may linger across the northern isles for much of the day. behind it, warm spells of sunshine for many, a few heavy and thundery showers, most will stay dry, but those showers becoming more frequent across wales and south—west england through the afternoon. a breezy day, some gusty winds across south west england, irish sea coasts and also for the northern isles, but warm in the sunshine, temperatures getting up to the low if not made 20 celsius, 25 celsius the expected high across some eastern parts of england. now, through the evening, those showers push their way further

northwards into the midlands, into northern england, northern ireland, and eventually we will see some rain pushing its way across scotland as well, some heavy and potentially thundery. behind it, some clearer skies, maybe a few patches of mist and fog. once again, it's another warm and muggy night with temperatures not much lower than 14 or 15 celsius. so, this is then how tuesday shapes up. this area of low pressure still parked to the west of the uk, notice the squeeze in the isobars, still some gusty winds, particularly for irish sea coasts, and once again, plenty of showers. now, some of us will start dry on tuesday, there will be some warm spells of sunshine but it won't be long before those showers start to get going, you can see them developing like a rash across a large swathe of the uk, they'll be heavy and thundery, they could well merge to give a longer spell of rain. not quite so many showers getting across to the eastern side of england. warm in the sunshine again, 23 or 24 celsius. where we have got the showers and the breeze, more like 18 or 19 celsius. low pressure makes slow progress eastwards across the uk as we head through the middle and latter part of the week. slowly, the winds start to ease

down but still plenty of showers so those showers will be slow—moving, but it looks like we should get some rain for areas that need them. so, the week ahead, really, is going to be a mixture of sunny spells but also some heavy and potentially thundery showers, and slowly the temperatures start to come down as well. goodbye.

welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, i'm karishma vaswani. the headlines. at least ten people have been killed and many more injured in a series of stabbings in canada. police say two suspects, a pair of brothers, are on the run, and are urging people to stay inside. we are still looking for the two suspects. we are asking residents to cross saskatchewan and neighbouring provinces to be vigilant. the polls have now closed in chile, where millions are voting in a historic referendum for a new constitution. britain is about to get a new prime minister, with the result due

in the conservative leadership election.