the conservative leadership contest is over, and the next prime minister of the united kingdom will be — liz truss. it's monday, it's one o'clock, and we're live in westminster. it's been a long contest — and this is how it ended just half an hour ago. i give notice that liz truss is elected as leader of the conservative and unionist party.

cheering thank you for putting your faith in me to _ thank you for putting your faith in me to lead — thank you for putting your faith in me to lead our great conservative party _ liz truss will become prime minister tomorrow — what's her answer to some major questions facing the uk? i will act immediately on bills and on energy supply. he'll have to leave number 10 first — have we heard the last of him? he will be a great loss to politics, but hopefully it'll only be a temporary loss. and will prime minister truss be able to unite her party after all of this? £40 billion more borrowing. i that is the country's credit card, i it's on children and grandchildren. it has been a busy summer and a busy first day back. i'm joined by gerard lyons, wes streeting, sebastien

payne and isabel hardman. we'll bring you all the developments as they happen. first let's show you how the results looked. just over 57% to liz truss, just over, actuallyjust under 43% to rishi sunak. and let's listen to liz truss speaking after that was announced. i will deliver a bold plan to cut taxes and grow our economy. i will deliver on the energy crisis, dealing with people's energy bills but also dealing with the long—term issues we have on energy supply. applause and i will deliver on the national health service.—

health service. applause but we all _ health service. applause but we all will _ health service. applause but we all will deliver - health service. applause but we all will deliver for. health service. applause i but we all will deliver for our country. and i will make sure that we use all the fantastic talents of the conservative party, our brilliant members of parliament and peers, ourfantastic brilliant members of parliament and peers, our fantastic councillors, our mss,, our msps, our activists and members right across our country. because, my friends, i know that we will deliver, we will deliver and we will deliver. applause and we will deliver a great victory for the conservative party in 202a. thank you.

liz truss with her victory speech there just round the corner in westminster. the result was expected, the polls had pointed to it. let's get a first reaction from our guests, you are an economist, he worked for borisjohnson when he was mayor of london, you broadly support liz truss particularly her plans for the economy and that is going to be at the top of her in tray in terms of cost of living. your response to the wind? i of cost of living. your response to the wind? ~ ., , ., of cost of living. your response to the wind? ~ .,, ., ,.,, the wind? i think it was a positive outcome, the wind? i think it was a positive outcome. it's _ the wind? i think it was a positive outcome, it's good _ the wind? i think it was a positive outcome, it's good she _ the wind? i think it was a positive outcome, it's good she is now- the wind? i think it was a positive i outcome, it's good she is now their she's highlighted the three issues she's highlighted the three issues she has reiterated, energy crisis and the health system. system. i think it's good to finally have her there. the problem is the campaign has gone on for too long, created too much uncertainty, so we should treat it as a positive and later this week i would expect her to start unveiling significant policies. fix. start unveiling significant olicies. �* ., ., policies. a treating it as a positive — policies. a treating it as a positive that _ policies. a treating it as a positive that we - policies. a treating it as a positive that we have - policies. a treating it as a positive that we have a i policies. a treating it as a - positive that we have a result? i think it's unforgivable that despite

the fact_ think it's unforgivable that despite the fact there has been a prime minister— the fact there has been a prime minister and cabinet all summer, we've _ minister and cabinet all summer, we've sing — minister and cabinet all summer, we've sing complete inaction weather on the _ we've sing complete inaction weather on the cost _ we've sing complete inaction weather on the cost of living crisis and rising — on the cost of living crisis and rising energy bills, the crisis in the nhs — rising energy bills, the crisis in the nhs has been worse than the depths— the nhs has been worse than the depths of— the nhs has been worse than the depths of winter crises, in the height— depths of winter crises, in the height of— depths of winter crises, in the height of summer. but bates really ill. height of summer. but bates really iii~ to— height of summer. but bates really iii~ to top— height of summer. but bates really iii~ to top it — height of summer. but bates really ill. to top it off, whether it was her interview yesterday with laura kuenssberg or the frankly very strange — kuenssberg or the frankly very strange speech she gave just then, there _ strange speech she gave just then, there is_ strange speech she gave just then, there is no— strange speech she gave just then, there is no sense of any answers coming — there is no sense of any answers coming from her. how is she going to -rip coming from her. how is she going to grip the _ coming from her. how is she going to grip the cost— coming from her. how is she going to grip the cost of living crisis? what's — grip the cost of living crisis? what's her answer? you can'tjust say i _ what's her answer? you can'tjust say i wiii— what's her answer? you can'tjust say i will deliver for the nhs. deliver— say i will deliver for the nhs. deliver what, when, how? say i will deliver for the nhs. deliverwhat, when, how? how urgently? — deliverwhat, when, how? how urgently? i think the conservative party— urgently? i think the conservative party has— urgently? i think the conservative party has taken the country for granted — party has taken the country for granted this summer, behaving as if they are _ granted this summer, behaving as if they are not — granted this summer, behaving as if they are not currently in power and can't _ they are not currently in power and can't affect — they are not currently in power and can't affect people's lights and worse. — can't affect people's lights and worse, pretending that somehow the mess that _ worse, pretending that somehow the mess that liz truss inherits has been _ mess that liz truss inherits has been someone else's fault, as though someone _ been someone else's fault, as though someone else has been government for 12 years _

someone else has been government for 12 ears. �* ., ., ., ., 12 years. beginning to hear from a liz truss supporter _ 12 years. beginning to hear from a liz truss supporter who _ 12 years. beginning to hear from a liz truss supporter who may - 12 years. beginning to hear from a liz truss supporter who may be i 12 years. beginning to hear from a l liz truss supporter who may be able to answer some of those questions but no doubt we will hear some of the detail over the next few days. it has really been a long, hot, political summer. it has really been a long, hot, politicalsummer. do it has really been a long, hot, political summer. do you think liz truss has a stronger mandate as she would like to deal with these critically important issues? 5?�*s would like to deal with these critically important issues? 57% is 14 oints critically important issues? 57% is 14 points ahead _ critically important issues? 57% is 14 points ahead of— critically important issues? 57% is 14 points ahead of rishi _ critically important issues? 57% is 14 points ahead of rishi sunak- critically important issues? 57% is 14 points ahead of rishi sunak so | 14 points ahead of rishi sunak so it's fairly emphatic but not quite as much as i think her campaign would have liked or probably hoped for. if we go back to 2019, boris johnson with two thirds of the vote againstjeremy hunt and gave him the authority to reshape the cabinet and take a different policy agenda. it still fairly clear for liz truss but not as strong as she would have hoped and this creates the whole problem about her leadership, she doesn't have the majority of conservative mps behind her, she does have a majority of party members but if she's going to pursue a new radical economic strategy, is there going to be the mandate to do

that? i think tory party management particularly among mps is going to be a majorfeature particularly among mps is going to be a major feature of the liz truss premiership because of the fact there will be a lot of mps who supported rishi sunak and penny mordaunt, don't forget liz truss came third to stop until the final ballot of mps, so keeping everybody happy when you've got 57% is going to be tricky. happy when you've got 57% is going to be tricky-— to be tricky. isabel, get your reaction just _ to be tricky. isabel, get your reaction just as _ to be tricky. isabel, get your reaction just as we _ to be tricky. isabel, get your reaction just as we see - to be tricky. isabel, get your reaction just as we see the l to be tricky. isabel, get your - reaction just as we see the pictures outside number 10. journalists have been out there all morning even though the action in terms of the result was about five minutes around the corner. there is larry the cat showing zero interest. can you take us through the choreography of the next 36 hours because of course liz truss isn't going to formally be asked to put together a government until tomorrow when both she and borisjohnson go to balmoral to see the queen. boris johnson go to balmoral to see the rueen. , ., ., .,

the queen. they are travelling on se arate the queen. they are travelling on separate planes _ the queen. they are travelling on separate planes for _ the queen. they are travelling on separate planes for security - separate planes for security reasons, _ separate planes for security reasons, borisjohnson will separate planes for security reasons, boris johnson will see the queen— reasons, boris johnson will see the queen and — reasons, boris johnson will see the queen and give his formal resignation and then liz truss will see the _ resignation and then liz truss will see the queen and there will be the fornral— see the queen and there will be the formal invitation to form a government from the queen. then she will fly— government from the queen. then she will fly hack _ government from the queen. then she will fly back to london, where her reshuffle — will fly back to london, where her reshuffle which she has already largely— reshuffle which she has already largely planned out with some notable — largely planned out with some notable issues will then start to take place. there are a number of people _ take place. there are a number of people who — take place. there are a number of people who backed her thinking they had got _ people who backed her thinking they had got one job, i think at one stage — had got one job, i think at one stage there were ten people who thought— stage there were ten people who thought they were going to be chancellor but that has now narrowed down to _ chancellor but that has now narrowed down to just kwasi chancellor but that has now narrowed down tojust kwasi kwarteng. there are other— down tojust kwasi kwarteng. there are other people who would like higger— are other people who would like biggerjobs than they are likely to be offered, iain duncan smith for instance — be offered, iain duncan smith for instance is— be offered, iain duncan smith for instance is known to not be particularly happy that he won't be getting _ particularly happy that he won't be getting a _ particularly happy that he won't be getting a delivery department and is instead _ getting a delivery department and is instead possibly heading for leader of the _ instead possibly heading for leader of the house of commons which is often _ of the house of commons which is often regarded as a semiretirement position— often regarded as a semiretirement position in— often regarded as a semiretirement position in politics. we often regarded as a semiretirement position in politics.— position in politics. we are going to talk about _ position in politics. we are going to talk about some _ position in politics. we are going to talk about some of— position in politics. we are going to talk about some of those - to talk about some of those appointments which will be announced no doubt some point tomorrow into

wednesday. i said we would talk to one of liz truss's supporters, shell donnellan was education secretary for a couple of days before she resigned in order to ease boris johnson out of downing street. thank you forjoining us. we'll be heading back to the department for education? have you had a phone call? has education? have you had a phone call? �* , education? have you had a phone call? x ., ., education? have you had a phone call? as you know, the process is tomorrow — call? as you know, the process is tomorrow so _ call? as you know, the process is tomorrow so i — call? as you know, the process is tomorrow so i don't _ call? as you know, the process is tomorrow so i don't think - tomorrow so i don't think speculation is helpful. there is the correct process, liz is in charge of his going to be in the cabinet so we'll see what tomorrow brings. your reaction to the _ we'll see what tomorrow brings. your reaction to the result? _ we'll see what tomorrow brings. your reaction to the result? is _ reaction to the result? i3 fantastic, she has won by 20000 and it gives her a clear mandate to move forward, unite the party and as she said deliverfor the forward, unite the party and as she said deliver for the country. forward, unite the party and as she said deliverfor the country. we face horrendous challenges with the cost of living, energy crisis, it's a difficult time to be prime minister but i have no doubt liz truss is completely up to the job. you say that it's a clear mandate, a clear mandate to do what exactly,

michelle donelan? what are you expecting? will there be a freeze in the energy price cap? what expecting? will there be a freeze in the energy price cap?— the energy price cap? what i'm exectin: the energy price cap? what i'm expecting is — the energy price cap? what i'm expecting is that _ the energy price cap? what i'm expecting is that we _ the energy price cap? what i'm expecting is that we deliver - the energy price cap? what i'm expecting is that we deliver on | the energy price cap? what i'm i expecting is that we deliver on the manifesto that we were elected to do and make good on liz's plan she is communicated, the plan for growth where we alter course, cut taxation, enable people to keep more of their own money from the off instead of giving them hand—outs where it's recycled and we grow our economy to make sure that people move forward and can weather the storm that is coming. and can weather the storm that is cominr. ., �* , . ., coming. you're expecting no hand-outs. _ coming. you're expecting no hand-outs, to _ coming. you're expecting no hand-outs, to use _ coming. you're expecting no hand-outs, to use that - coming. you're expecting no hand-outs, to use that word j coming. you're expecting no - hand-outs, to use that word that has hand—outs, to use that word that has been bandied about during this campaign? 50. been bandied about during this camairn? been bandied about during this campaign?— been bandied about during this cam-iain? ., campaign? so, liz never ruled out hand-outs. _ campaign? so, liz never ruled out hand-outs, what _ campaign? so, liz never ruled out hand-outs, what she _ campaign? so, liz never ruled out hand-outs, what she said - campaign? so, liz never ruled out hand-outs, what she said was - campaign? so, liz never ruled out| hand-outs, what she said was that hand—outs, what she said was that the first step should always be reducing taxation, enabling people to keep more of their own money from the off, that should be what you do first. and of course you can layer it up with additional support and she's going to do a large physical event akin to a budget in the coming weeks where she will be outlining that in thorough detail along with

her chancellor. you that in thorough detail along with her chancellor.— that in thorough detail along with her chancellor. you say that she's aroin to her chancellor. you say that she's going to cut _ her chancellor. you say that she's going to cut taxes, _ her chancellor. you say that she's going to cut taxes, she's - her chancellor. you say that she's going to cut taxes, she's going i her chancellor. you say that she's going to cut taxes, she's going to | going to cut taxes, she's going to do that first it's not what you're expecting before any announcement on how she's going to tackle the soaring bills people are facing, never rising inflation? can we really afford to wait until later in the month to hear what she's going to do for those people? ida. the month to hear what she's going to do for those people?— the month to hear what she's going to do for those people? no, she will be doinr to do for those people? no, she will be doing lot — to do for those people? no, she will be doing lot in _ to do for those people? no, she will be doing lot in a _ to do for those people? no, she will be doing lot in a large _ to do for those people? no, she will be doing lot in a large fiscal- to do for those people? no, she will be doing lot in a large fiscal event i be doing lot in a large fiscal event akin to a budget. i don't think it will be responsible her to have outlined in detail exactly what she'll do without having access to the books. you wouldn't do that if you are about to take over a company. she's outlined the top things she will do and then said, you know, iwill things she will do and then said, you know, i will be providing the detail in a large fiscal event, working with my chancellor, she said her priority is helping people through the crisis, tackling the energy crisis, notjust in the short term but the long—term, growing our economy for the future and

delivering on the manifesto. right. but the delivering on the manifesto. right. tout the state _ delivering on the manifesto. right. but the state of _ delivering on the manifesto. right. but the state of finances _ delivering on the manifesto. right. but the state of finances and i delivering on the manifesto. right. but the state of finances and the i but the state of finances and the state the economy and the price cap that's been announced with people perhaps having to face annual energy bills of 3500, the fiscal event isn't due we think until the 21st of september. are you not expecting her as the new prime minister to set out in the coming days how she's going to help households and businesses? is it going to amount something similar to the fellow skin, something in the region of 70-100,000,000,000 of state intervention —— the furlough scheme. i'm not going to announce the policies of the newly elected leader. i5 policies of the newly elected leader. , ., ., , ., policies of the newly elected leader. , ., ., ., policies of the newly elected leader. , ., ., , ., ., 4' leader. is that what you would like to see? before _ leader. is that what you would like to see? before she's _ leader. is that what you would like to see? before she's even - leader. is that what you would like l to see? before she's even appointed the chancellor. _ to see? before she's even appointed the chancellor. there _ to see? before she's even appointed the chancellor. there is _ to see? before she's even appointed the chancellor. there is a _ to see? before she's even appointed the chancellor. there is a correct i the chancellor. there is a correct way of doing this and i'm sure we will see a statement on this. she has said she's going to that and i believe she doesn'tjust talk

has said she's going to that and i believe she doesn't just talk a has said she's going to that and i believe she doesn'tjust talk a good game, she delivers, she should say that in six departments she has worked in. that's why members have backed her throughout this process, that's why the majority of mps back and she is going to reunite the party, move forward and deliver the country and help constituents including my own in wiltshire. ads, lot including my own in wiltshire. a lot of --eole including my own in wiltshire. a lot of people would _ including my own in wiltshire. a lot of people would say _ including my own in wiltshire. a lot of people would say the party is split in terms of the number of mps who supported her, certainly from the beginning. how serious do you think the situation is, michelle donelan, when it comes to the energy crisis? are people being too alarmist about it? absolutely not. it is extremely _ alarmist about it? absolutely not. it is extremely serious. _ alarmist about it? absolutely not. it is extremely serious. nobody i alarmist about it? absolutely not. it is extremely serious. nobody is| it is extremely serious. nobody is underestimating it but i've heard. i've been out canvassing this summer and time after time people are genuinely worried about this. people of all different types of financial income and that's why it's important we are helping everybody, that's why it's important people are keeping more of their own money and that's why it's important we are reducing taxation. but of course there will

need to be more support and we will see that in the coming weeks as the priority. d0 see that in the coming weeks as the riori . ,., ,, see that in the coming weeks as the riori . ,, , see that in the coming weeks as the riori . , ., ., priority. do you see it on a scale as the pandemic _ priority. do you see it on a scale as the pandemic in _ priority. do you see it on a scale as the pandemic in terms i priority. do you see it on a scale as the pandemic in terms of i as the pandemic in terms of furlough? i as the pandemic in terms of furlough?— as the pandemic in terms of furlou:h? ., �* ~ �*, , furlough? i don't think it's helpful to compare _ furlough? i don't think it's helpful to compare one _ furlough? i don't think it's helpful to compare one crisis _ furlough? i don't think it's helpful to compare one crisis to - furlough? i don't think it's helpful to compare one crisis to another. | furlough? i don't think it's helpful| to compare one crisis to another. i don't think there's anybody out there saying that this is or should be underestimated or isn't worrying people are affecting them or going to impact them as we progress into winter. this has to be taken extremely seriously, it will affect everybody as i just said, of all incomes. that's why we will be helping them. incomes. that's why we will be helping them-— incomes. that's why we will be helping them. incomes. that's why we will be helinr them. ~ , ,, helping them. why did liz truss say esterda , helping them. why did liz truss say yesterday. when — helping them. why did liz truss say yesterday, when she _ helping them. why did liz truss say yesterday, when she was _ helping them. why did liz truss say yesterday, when she was asked i helping them. why did liz truss say l yesterday, when she was asked about it, that we shouldn't be predicting an armageddon scenario? state it, that we shouldn't be predicting an armageddon scenario? we certainly shouldn't, armageddon _ an armageddon scenario? we certainly shouldn't, armageddon means- an armageddon scenario? we certainly shouldn't, armageddon means the i an armageddon scenario? we certainlyj shouldn't, armageddon means the end of the world so we shouldn't be predicting an armageddon scenario. what i'm trying to get from you is where are you, where is liz truss, prime minister truss, going to be in terms of tackling what many people

think could become if not the end of the world but could become a real emergency?— the world but could become a real emergency? well, you 'ust have to look back at — emergency? well, you 'ust have to look back at what i emergency? well, you just have to look back at what she's _ emergency? well, you just have to look back at what she's been i emergency? well, you just have to i look back at what she's been saying, she's been consistent, she has called it a crisis, she has said this is worrying people, that this needs to be the number one priority along with growing the economy. she said that if we don't we're going to sleepwalk into recession where people will be losing jobs, that would be even worse. under her plans she wants to avoid that, make sure we are growing the economy, cutting taxation, facing these challenges are notjust in the short term but the long term so we never put ourselves in this position again in terms of our vulnerability with energy. liz truss is probably the longest serving of all the cabinet members since the conservatives came into power in 2010 in one way or another and it has been a very brutal campaign between rishi sunak and liz truss. how do you think she is going to be able to put the party back

together again when rishi sunak called the sorts of cuts in taxes that you have just outlined and supported as a moral. he said her economic agenda was a fairy tale. during the campaign people will always criticise the opponent. it is more than — always criticise the opponent. it is more than criticising! liz - always criticise the opponent. it is more than criticising! liz truss i always criticise the opponent. it isj more than criticising! liz truss ran a very positive _ more than criticising! liz truss ran a very positive campaign. - more than criticising! liz truss ran a very positive campaign. she i more than criticising! liz truss ran a very positive campaign. she now has the majority of mps backing her from all regions of the country and there is a great desire to now reunite. divided parties do not win elections and don't deliver on manifestos and they don't do well in a crisis. we know that and we are all determined to get back together, focus on the needs of the british public and move forward. that focus on the needs of the british public and move forward.- public and move forward. that is true, divided _ public and move forward. that is true, divided parties— public and move forward. that is true, divided parties don't i public and move forward. that is true, divided parties don't tend l public and move forward. that is. true, divided parties don't tend to win elections. what should liz truss do to reach out to those mps, including rishi sunak, so she can put the party back together again?

she already said in her acceptance speech that she would be utilising the talents across the entire party. we have seen people defect to her during the campaign. i am confident they will rally behind her in the coming days and we will move forward as a party together. coming days and we will move forward as a party together-— as a party together. michelle donelan, _ as a party together. michelle donelan, thank _ as a party together. michelle donelan, thank you - as a party together. michelle donelan, thank you for i as a party together. michelle l donelan, thank you forjoining as a party together. michelle i donelan, thank you forjoining us, liz truss support. is that what will happen, isabel hardman, everybody will come together harmoniously under a liz truss premiership after the campaign that we have witnessed over the last eight weeks? the the campaign that we have witnessed over the last eight weeks?— over the last eight weeks? the tory -a is over the last eight weeks? the tory party is rrot — over the last eight weeks? the tory party is rrot like _ over the last eight weeks? the tory party is not like that _ over the last eight weeks? the tory party is not like that at _ over the last eight weeks? the tory party is not like that at the - over the last eight weeks? the tory party is not like that at the best i party is not like that at the best of times anyway, it is more like a bunch of 14—year—olds at a disco who are desperate for whoever the prime minister of the day is to look at them. party management will always be hard for a prime minister but it is particularly hard for liz truss given the lower support amongst mps, given the lower support amongst mps, given the low margin by which she has beaten rishi sunak. the pressure

is on her to appoint people who will be good at delivering, as she kept saying slightly wooden lay in that acceptance speech. they only have 18 months to prove they can do something material to make voters think, actually we can back these guys again. they only really have a week and a bit to show that liz truss has an ability to take command of the situation. if by the end of this week or the middle of next week there is a sense of confusion over there is a sense of confusion over the energy bills policy, that's when things will get really tough. do the energy bills policy, that's when things will get really tough.- things will get really tough. do you a . ree with things will get really tough. do you agree with that? _ things will get really tough. do you agree with that? we _ things will get really tough. do you agree with that? we will— things will get really tough. do you agree with that? we will talk- things will get really tough. do you j agree with that? we will talk about the policy itself and you will explain that for us. gerard lyons, do you agree with the notion that her premiership will be made or broken on what she says on the energy crisis and the cost of living? it energy crisis and the cost of livin: ? ., , ., ., living? it might not be made or broken but _ living? it might not be made or broken but there _ living? it might not be made or broken but there is _ living? it might not be made or broken but there is no - living? it might not be made or broken but there is no doubt i living? it might not be made or. broken but there is no doubt she living? it might not be made or- broken but there is no doubt she has to do— broken but there is no doubt she has to do some _ broken but there is no doubt she has to do some thing significant in the next few— to do some thing significant in the next few weeks was top of the three things— next few weeks was top of the three things she _ next few weeks was top of the three things she has to do, two of them

are likely— things she has to do, two of them are likely aren't necessary in the next _ are likely aren't necessary in the next week _ are likely aren't necessary in the next week. one is on the dingy front~ — next week. one is on the dingy front the _ next week. one is on the dingy front. the good news is they will do something — front. the good news is they will do something but the question is how they will— something but the question is how they will do it. —— is on the energy front~ _ they will do it. —— is on the energy front the — they will do it. —— is on the energy front. the second issue is on inflation _ front. the second issue is on inflation. the third issue, which will have — inflation. the third issue, which will have to wait until the 14th or the 21st, — will have to wait until the 14th or the 21st, the so—called fiscal statement, is the whole fiscal policy — statement, is the whole fiscal policy and i thought rishi sunak's comments in the campaign were quite outrageous _ comments in the campaign were quite outrageous. especially since he was chancellor— outrageous. especially since he was chancellor two months ago. on the fiscal— chancellor two months ago. on the fiscal front — chancellor two months ago. on the fiscal front we have a lot more room for manoeuvre. it is quite important that if— for manoeuvre. it is quite important that if we _ for manoeuvre. it is quite important that if we work and to continue with tax hikes _ that if we work and to continue with tax hikes that have been implemented or planned _ tax hikes that have been implemented or planned in the last two years and we are _ or planned in the last two years and we are the — or planned in the last two years and we are the only 67 country to raise taxes _ we are the only 67 country to raise taxes in _ we are the only 67 country to raise taxes in a — we are the only 67 country to raise taxes in a global downturn, if those increases _ taxes in a global downturn, if those increases were allowed to go ahead then we _ increases were allowed to go ahead then we would have a deep recession. what she _ then we would have a deep recession. what she has to do on the fiscal front— what she has to do on the fiscal front is— what she has to do on the fiscal front is not— what she has to do on the fiscal front is not only create the space to address — front is not only create the space to address the energy crisis, she needs— to address the energy crisis, she needs to — to address the energy crisis, she needs to start doing things on the fiscal— needs to start doing things on the fiscal front, which i think she will do to— fiscal front, which i think she will do to hopefully prevent a recession but ideally at the worst case make sure it _

but ideally at the worst case make sure it is _ but ideally at the worst case make sure it is short lived and as shallow— sure it is short lived and as shallow as possible. do sure it is short lived and as shallow as possible. do you agree with that, wes — shallow as possible. do you agree with that, wes streeting? - shallow as possible. do you agree with that, wes streeting? the i shallow as possible. do you agree i with that, wes streeting? the labour party has been at pains to say the tax burden has been way too high. you called for the national insurance increases not to go ahead so presumably you agree with what gerard lyonsjust so presumably you agree with what gerard lyons just said. so presumably you agree with what gerard lyonsjust said. the so presumably you agree with what gerard lyonsjust said.— gerard lyons 'ust said. the reason we have a gerard lyonsjust said. the reason we have a higher— gerard lyonsjust said. the reason we have a higher tax _ gerard lyonsjust said. the reason we have a higher tax economy i gerard lyonsjust said. the reason we have a higher tax economy is l we have a higher tax economy is because — we have a higher tax economy is because we _ we have a higher tax economy is because we have _ we have a higher tax economy is because we have a _ we have a higher tax economy is because we have a low - we have a higher tax economy is because we have a low growth i we have a higher tax economy is- because we have a low growth economy and that's— because we have a low growth economy and that's a _ because we have a low growth economy and that's a direct _ because we have a low growth economy and that's a direct result— because we have a low growth economy and that's a direct result of— because we have a low growth economy and that's a direct result of the - and that's a direct result of the economic— and that's a direct result of the economic policies— and that's a direct result of the economic policies over- and that's a direct result of the economic policies over the i and that's a direct result of the economic policies over the lasti and that's a direct result of the . economic policies over the last 12 years— economic policies over the last 12 years and — economic policies over the last 12 years and the _ economic policies over the last 12 years and the conservatives - economic policies over the last 12 years and the conservatives have| economic policies over the last 12 . years and the conservatives have to accept _ years and the conservatives have to accept responsibility— years and the conservatives have to accept responsibility for— years and the conservatives have to accept responsibility for that. - years and the conservatives have to accept responsibility for that. the . accept responsibility for that. the bil accept responsibility for that. the big problem — accept responsibility for that. the big problem for— accept responsibility for that. the big problem for liz— accept responsibility for that. the big problem for liz truss - accept responsibility for that. the big problem for liz truss is - accept responsibility for that. the big problem for liz truss is she i accept responsibility for that. the i big problem for liz truss is she has created _ big problem for liz truss is she has created so— big problem for liz truss is she has created so marry— big problem for liz truss is she has created so many hostages - big problem for liz truss is she has created so many hostages to - big problem for liz truss is she has. created so many hostages to fortune this summer— created so many hostages to fortune this summer because _ created so many hostages to fortune this summer because she _ created so many hostages to fortune this summer because she has - created so many hostages to fortune this summer because she has talked i this summer because she has talked entirety— this summer because she has talked entirety and — this summer because she has talked entirely and exclusively _ this summer because she has talked entirely and exclusively to _ this summer because she has talked entirely and exclusively to the - entirely and exclusively to the conservative _ entirely and exclusively to the conservative party _ entirely and exclusively to the i conservative party membership entirely and exclusively to the - conservative party membership and not to— conservative party membership and hot to the _ conservative party membership and not to the country. _ conservative party membership and not to the country. she _ conservative party membership and not to the country. she has - conservative party membership and i not to the country. she has promised spending _ not to the country. she has promised spending increases _ not to the country. she has promised spending increases and _ not to the country. she has promised spending increases and tax _ not to the country. she has promised spending increases and tax cuts. - not to the country. she has promised spending increases and tax cuts. to i spending increases and tax cuts. to be clear. _ spending increases and tax cuts. to be clear. if— spending increases and tax cuts. to be clear. if a — spending increases and tax cuts. to be clear, if a labour— spending increases and tax cuts. to be clear, if a labour politician - spending increases and tax cuts. to be clear, if a labour politician has. be clear, if a labour politician has said the _ be clear, if a labour politician has said the things _ be clear, if a labour politician has said the things she _ be clear, if a labour politician has said the things she has— be clear, if a labour politician has said the things she has said - be clear, if a labour politician has said the things she has said all. said the things she has said all summer— said the things she has said all summer we _ said the things she has said all summer we would _ said the things she has said all summer we would be - said the things she has said all summer we would be hauled . said the things she has said all. summer we would be hauled over said the things she has said all- summer we would be hauled over the hot coats _ summer we would be hauled over the hot coats and — summer we would be hauled over the hot coals and every _ summer we would be hauled over the hot coals and every conservative - summer we would be hauled over the hot coals and every conservative in i hot coals and every conservative in the land _ hot coals and every conservative in the land would _ hot coals and every conservative in the land would say _ hot coals and every conservative in the land would say labour - hot coals and every conservative in the land would say labour can't - hot coals and every conservative in the land would say labour can't be| the land would say labour can't be trusted _ the land would say labour can't be trusted with — the land would say labour can't be trusted with the _ the land would say labour can't be trusted with the economy. - the land would say labour can't be trusted with the economy. this - the land would say labour can't be trusted with the economy. this is| trusted with the economy. this is the crux— trusted with the economy. this is the crux of— trusted with the economy. this is the crux of it. _ trusted with the economy. this is the crux of it, everything - trusted with the economy. this is the crux of it, everything we - trusted with the economy. this isi the crux of it, everything we have been _ the crux of it, everything we have been saying — the crux of it, everything we have been saying has— the crux of it, everything we have been saying has been— the crux of it, everything we have been saying has been costed - the crux of it, everything we have been saying has been costed and| the crux of it, everything we have i been saying has been costed and we have explained — been saying has been costed and we have explained how—

been saying has been costed and we have explained how we _ been saying has been costed and we have explained how we would - been saying has been costed and we have explained how we would pay i been saying has been costed and wei have explained how we would pay for it because _ have explained how we would pay for it because that — have explained how we would pay for it because that is— have explained how we would pay for it because that is how— it because that is how politics works — it because that is how politics works the _ it because that is how politics works. the only— it because that is how politics works. the only two - it because that is how politicsi works. the only two questions it because that is how politics- works. the only two questions on any policy, _ works. the only two questions on any policy, who— works. the only two questions on any policy, who benefits _ works. the only two questions on any policy, who benefits and _ works. the only two questions on any policy, who benefits and who - works. the only two questions on any policy, who benefits and who pays. . policy, who benefits and who pays. 0n the _ policy, who benefits and who pays. 0n the cost — policy, who benefits and who pays. 0n the cost of— policy, who benefits and who pays. 0n the cost of living _ policy, who benefits and who pays. 0n the cost of living crisis, - policy, who benefits and who pays. 0n the cost of living crisis, who - 0n the cost of living crisis, who benefits, — 0n the cost of living crisis, who benefits, everyone _ 0n the cost of living crisis, who benefits, everyone would - 0n the cost of living crisis, who i benefits, everyone would benefit 0n the cost of living crisis, who - benefits, everyone would benefit if you help _ benefits, everyone would benefit if you help them _ benefits, everyone would benefit if you help them out _ benefits, everyone would benefit if you help them out and _ benefits, everyone would benefit if you help them out and who - benefits, everyone would benefit if you help them out and who pays, i benefits, everyone would benefit if. you help them out and who pays, the oil and _ you help them out and who pays, the oil and gas _ you help them out and who pays, the oil and gas companies _ you help them out and who pays, the oil and gas companies will— you help them out and who pays, the oil and gas companies will stop - you help them out and who pays, the oil and gas companies will stop liz. oil and gas companies will stop liz truss— oil and gas companies will stop liz truss doesn't _ oil and gas companies will stop liz truss doesn't have _ oil and gas companies will stop liz truss doesn't have to _ oil and gas companies will stop liz truss doesn't have to spend - oil and gas companies will stop liz truss doesn't have to spend time i truss doesn't have to spend time asking _ truss doesn't have to spend time asking civil— truss doesn't have to spend time asking civil servants _ truss doesn't have to spend time asking civil servants what - truss doesn't have to spend time asking civil servants what to - truss doesn't have to spend time asking civil servants what to do. i asking civil servants what to do. there _ asking civil servants what to do. there is— asking civil servants what to do. there is a — asking civil servants what to do. there is a fully _ asking civil servants what to do. there is a fully costed _ asking civil servants what to do. there is a fully costed to, - asking civil servants what to do. there is a fully costed to, well. there is a fully costed to, well argued, — there is a fully costed to, well argued, fully— there is a fully costed to, well argued, fully supported - there is a fully costed to, well argued, fully supported by - there is a fully costed to, well. argued, fully supported by public policy— argued, fully supported by public policy and — argued, fully supported by public policy and she _ argued, fully supported by public policy and she is _ argued, fully supported by public policy and she is welcome - argued, fully supported by public policy and she is welcome to - argued, fully supported by public| policy and she is welcome to take argued, fully supported by public . policy and she is welcome to take it because _ policy and she is welcome to take it because people _ policy and she is welcome to take it because people will— policy and she is welcome to take it because people will benefit - policy and she is welcome to take it because people will benefit across i because people will benefit across the country — because people will benefit across the country on _ because people will benefit across the country-— the country. on that first point of wes streeting, — the country. on that first point of wes streeting, it _ the country. on that first point of wes streeting, it is _ the country. on that first point of wes streeting, it is true - the country. on that first point of wes streeting, it is true that - the country. on that first point of wes streeting, it is true that lizl wes streeting, it is true that liz truss has been talking to a tiny number of people in the country, the conservative party members. that's who she has pitched too. will she change now? to who she has pitched too. will she change now?— change now? to put it in perspective. _ change now? to put it in perspective, she - change now? to put it in perspective, she was - change now? to put it in| perspective, she was the change now? to put it in - perspective, she was the only cabinet — perspective, she was the only cabinet minister, or the first cabinet _ cabinet minister, or the first cabinet minister, or the first cabinet minister to stand up and oppose — cabinet minister to stand up and oppose the national insurance tax increase — oppose the national insurance tax increase. what she actually said at that time _ increase. what she actually said at that time as relevant now. she was making _ that time as relevant now. she was making the — that time as relevant now. she was making the point that you have a lot more _ making the point that you have a lot more room — making the point that you have a lot more room for fiscal manoeuvre. as she said _ more room for fiscal manoeuvre. as she said in _ more room for fiscal manoeuvre. as she said in the last few weeks,

fiscal— she said in the last few weeks, fiscal action is now necessary, it is affordable and it is not inflationary. i am is affordable and it is not inflationary. iam not is affordable and it is not inflationary. i am not here to defend — inflationary. i am not here to defend the politics but in terms of economic— defend the politics but in terms of economic thought i think is interesting, and it comes back to your— interesting, and it comes back to your point, — interesting, and it comes back to your point, which you are quite right— your point, which you are quite right on. — your point, which you are quite right on, we have high taxes not 'ust right on, we have high taxes not just because we are a low growth economy— just because we are a low growth economy but because of the choices that have _ economy but because of the choices that have been made in whitehall since _ that have been made in whitehall since the — that have been made in whitehall since the 2008 financial crisis. the view has _ since the 2008 financial crisis. the view has been, growth is low, budget deficit— view has been, growth is low, budget deficit is— view has been, growth is low, budget deficit is structural, and that's why the — deficit is structural, and that's why the treasury said ten years ago austerity— why the treasury said ten years ago austerity was necessary and that's why they— austerity was necessary and that's why they now say tax increases are necessary. you need to turn it on its head. — necessary. you need to turn it on its head. it's _ necessary. you need to turn it on its head, it's like being in a hole and digging deeper. it is its head, it's like being in a hole and digging deeper.— its head, it's like being in a hole and digging deeper. it is like the arsonist trying — and digging deeper. it is like the arsonist trying to _ and digging deeper. it is like the arsonist trying to put _ and digging deeper. it is like the arsonist trying to put out - and digging deeper. it is like the arsonist trying to put out the - and digging deeper. it is like thel arsonist trying to put out the fire. we will— arsonist trying to put out the fire. we will come _ arsonist trying to put out the fire. we will come back— arsonist trying to put out the fire. we will come back to _ arsonist trying to put out the fire. we will come back to the - arsonist trying to put out the fire. we will come back to the issue i arsonist trying to put out the fire. we will come back to the issue of| we will come back to the issue of taxation and your point, as you say, as kwasi kwarteng, who we expect to be next chancellor, who has written in the financial times today saying

he has also said we can afford more borrowing. the headlines in the times, trust team hold talks on freezing energy bills. in the telegraph, a similar headline, liz truss could freeze bills to avoid energy armageddon. is that what is going to happen despite the fact, and she wouldn't rule it out yesterday but she hasn't said she would do that. lip yesterday but she hasn't said she would do that.— would do that. up until now liz truss has _ would do that. up until now liz truss has ruled _ would do that. up until now liz truss has ruled nothing - would do that. up until now liz truss has ruled nothing out. would do that. up until now liz truss has ruled nothing out or| would do that. up until now lizl truss has ruled nothing out or in would do that. up until now liz - truss has ruled nothing out or in so we could be sticking our fingers truss has ruled nothing out or in so we could be sticking ourfingers in the air at the moment. the indications suggest this is where we are heading. there was a meeting a couple of weeks ago between some big energy companies and kwasi kwarteng and jacob rees—mogg, an indication of the roles they will take up in the next government and we expect kwasi kwarteng to be chancellor and jacob rees—mogg to be business secretary. the proposal is that the government will provide state backed loans to allow them to freeze energy bills that will allow them to pay it back long term in the future. it is not entirely dissimilar to the idea labour put forward a couple of weeks

ago. labour proposed a windfall tax. labour have proposed a freeze which it looks like liz truss will do. she would try to combine that with the sort of things gerard has been talking about in terms of taxes. but theissue talking about in terms of taxes. but the issue is, does it add up. that's why kwasi kwarteng's article in the financial times this morning is important because he is saying to financial markets, don't worry too much. he says there will be fiscal loosening, which means borrowing more money to pay for it, but they will be fiscally neutral. i will be watching out for, is there going to be a spending review at some point because if this trust is going to propose a big freezing of bills, plus tax reductions then there will have to be government spending and where does that money come from and where does that money come from and where does that money come from and where do you cut and will that make life more difficult for the public sector bus to knock at the moment it is like, we will do everything, but you can't do everything in those hard choices are what she will face tomorrow evening.— tomorrow evening. reality will hit fairl soon tomorrow evening. reality will hit fairly soon in _ tomorrow evening. reality will hit

fairly soon in all— tomorrow evening. reality will hit fairly soon in all sorts _ tomorrow evening. reality will hit fairly soon in all sorts of - tomorrow evening. reality will hit fairly soon in all sorts of ways. . fairly soon in all sorts of ways. isabel hardman, until it does, what sort of scale are we talking about because people have mooted figures somewhere between 60 and £100 billion. that's a big if it goes up to 100 billion because of the total cost of covid was around 350 billion but furlough was around that 60, 70 billion. is that what you understand the figures to be? i billion. is that what you understand the figures to be?— the figures to be? i think they are the figures to be? i think they are the window _ the figures to be? i think they are the window we _ the figures to be? i think they are the window we talk _ the figures to be? i think they are the window we talk about - the figures to be? i think they are the window we talk about in - the figures to be? i think they are i the window we talk about in politics that has— the window we talk about in politics that has moved and this is something rishi sunak— that has moved and this is something rishi sunak was quite upset by because — rishi sunak was quite upset by because he wanted to move it back to people _ because he wanted to move it back to people not— because he wanted to move it back to people not thinking the government should _ people not thinking the government should step in every time there is a crisis _ should step in every time there is a crisis and — should step in every time there is a crisis and so — should step in every time there is a crisis. and so when keir starmer made _ crisis. and so when keir starmer made his— crisis. and so when keir starmer made his proposal on freezing energy bills over— made his proposal on freezing energy bills over the summer i remember the reaction _ bills over the summer i remember the reaction back in 2013 to ed miliband's energy price cap and how he was _ miliband's energy price cap and how he was written up as dangerous and all these _ he was written up as dangerous and all these quite threatening connotations. everything has changed because _ connotations. everything has changed because of— connotations. everything has changed because of the pandemic and actually those _ because of the pandemic and actually those sums— because of the pandemic and actually those sums and big policies are considered what government should be

doing. _ considered what government should be doing. for— considered what government should be doing, for right or wrong. in terms of the _ doing, for right or wrong. in terms of the reality hitting, and i was talking — of the reality hitting, and i was talking to — of the reality hitting, and i was talking to a conservative mp recently _ talking to a conservative mp recently who said the proverbial is about— recently who said the proverbial is about to _ recently who said the proverbial is about to hit the fan but we can't afford _ about to hit the fan but we can't afford to — about to hit the fan but we can't afford to turn the fan on. that's the awful— afford to turn the fan on. that's the awful dynamic we are going to have this — the awful dynamic we are going to have this winter, where it will be very difficult to confront reality and then — very difficult to confront reality and then to work out what feasibly can be _ and then to work out what feasibly can be done to deal with it because these _ can be done to deal with it because these sums— can be done to deal with it because these sums are stratospheric in terms _ these sums are stratospheric in terms of— these sums are stratospheric in terms of energy bills. then you get onto the _ terms of energy bills. then you get onto the nhs and the pressure the health— onto the nhs and the pressure the health service is facing.— health service is facing. nobody would envy _ health service is facing. nobody would envy her _ health service is facing. nobody would envy her in _ health service is facing. nobody would envy her in that - health service is facing. nobody would envy her in that position. j health service is facing. nobody i would envy her in that position. to would envy her in that position. trr follow up on something you said, we are talking £100 billion and that is just for this winter. this problem is not going away. we are not suddenly going to get to next year and vladimir putin will turn the gas back on and prices will come down. every indication is this is a medium—term problem and it is notable when liz truss talks about the energy crisis, she talks about getting through this winter and also longer term security. borisjohnson

said building nuclear power plants would take ten or 15 years so she has to look at something more immediate because we can't as a country afford to spend 100 billion every quarter or every six months to keep energy bills low. we need to see serious reform. again, very hard choices to be made. lets see serious reform. again, very hard choices to be made.— choices to be made. lets park that for the moment. _ choices to be made. lets park that for the moment. rishi _ choices to be made. lets park that for the moment. rishi sunak, - choices to be made. lets park that for the moment. rishi sunak, who| choices to be made. lets park that - for the moment. rishi sunak, who has lost the contest, has tweeted... it didn't look like one family over the summer! we will talk to one of rishi sunak's supporters later in the programme. your response to that, sebastien payne? he your response to that, sebastien pa ne? . , your response to that, sebastien pa ne? , , .,

payne? he is trying to calm everything _ payne? he is trying to calm everything down _ payne? he is trying to calm everything down right - payne? he is trying to calm everything down right now. | payne? he is trying to calm | everything down right now. i payne? he is trying to calm - everything down right now. i think he is aware that they will have to try to get behind liz truss if the whole thing is not going to get difficult. but it's what you would expect from a losing candidate. idistill expect from a losing candidate. will it work? also. _ expect from a losing candidate. will it work? also, he _ expect from a losing candidate. will it work? also, he can _ expect from a losing candidate. will it work? also, he can say _ expect from a losing candidate. will it work? also, he can say one - expect from a losing candidate. will it work? also, he can say one thing | it work? also, he can say one thing but the people _ it work? also, he can say one thing but the people around _ it work? also, he can say one thing but the people around him - it work? also, he can say one thing but the people around him can - it work? also, he can say one thing but the people around him can do | but the people around him can do something — but the people around him can do something else and that largely happened in the campaign for stop he came across _ happened in the campaign for stop he came across as nice and personable. this was— came across as nice and personable. this was the — came across as nice and personable. this was the case for the liz truss campaign — this was the case for the liz truss campaign as— this was the case for the liz truss campaign as well, but then sent acolytes — campaign as well, but then sent acolytes out into the media to growl at someone else. are acolytes out into the media to growl at someone else.— at someone else. are you an forgiveness _ at someone else. are you an forgiveness mode, _ at someone else. are you an forgiveness mode, gerard i at someone else. are you an - forgiveness mode, gerard lyons? you said it was outrageous what rishi sunak said about liz truss's economic plans? i sunak said about liz truss's economic plans?— sunak said about liz truss's economic plans? i think they are bein: far economic plans? i think they are being far too _ economic plans? i think they are being far too pessimistic - economic plans? i think they are being far too pessimistic was - economic plans? i think they are | being far too pessimistic was that we have to be realistic about the near—term challenges with world economy is slowing down, inflationary pressures are easing. this problem is impacting all of western europe and notjust the uk. 0n the inflation side, we are one of the highest in europe. on the inflation side, we are one of the highest in europe.— the highest in europe. western euro -e the highest in europe. western europe could — the highest in europe. western europe could all _ the highest in europe. western europe could all be _ the highest in europe. western europe could all be in - the highest in europe. western europe could all be in the - the highest in europe. western| europe could all be in the same boat. technically we will be higher but i don't think we can get too

worked up about that. you but i don't think we can get too worked up about that. you might be able to say that. _ worked up about that. you might be able to say that. is _ worked up about that. you might be able to say that. is a _ worked up about that. you might be able to say that. is a real— worked up about that. you might be able to say that. is a real problem i able to say that. is a real problem for us and — able to say that. is a real problem for us and for _ able to say that. is a real problem for us and for germany. _ able to say that. is a real problem| for us and for germany. consumer prices are rising more in germany than here. but the reality is that the jobs market is really good and that's a positive. 0n the fiscal side, what we are seeing as far as i can make out, a prime ministerfrom tomorrow who is now going to be confronting the issues and trying to get some balance between monetary and fiscal policy. we haven't talked about monetary policy here but for the last 15 years we have had a real distortion where monetary policy has been the shock absorber, leading to not pricing for risk and it has allowed a pick—up in inflation to take place. nobody is underestimating the challenge and we need a sense of realism but at the same time it is not as bad as you are suggesting and if we actually start to address the problems head on... we will have to wait and see. lots of people don't know much about liz truss yet. if you're one of them, here's vicki young. she's a grafter.

she means what she says, she knows what she wants and she gets it. these are some of liz truss's most supportive friends. activists in her norfolk constituency have nothing but praise for their mp, the next prime minister. thejob is so important to her, getting done what she wants to get done. there's no... ..airs and graces about liz. she's just as you see. she's got the skin of a rhinoceros when it comes to putting up - with people having a go at her, i can assure you. _ several times over the years, colleagues have predicted that liz truss's career was on a downward path, that she'd soon be spending more time here in norfolk than in westminster. but friends say she's always been underestimated and her survival is evidence of a clever politician with a steely determination. her politicaljourney has taken herfrom a family she describes as left wing, where she joined her parents in the campaign for unilateral nuclear disarmament, to oxford university, where she was a liberal democrat and took to the conference

staged to argue in favour of abolishing the monarchy. we liberal democrats believe in opportunity for all. we believe in fairness and common sense. after graduating, she joined the conservatives, worked as an accountant and was selected to fight the safe tory seat of south west norfolk. but her political career was almost derailed when news emerged of an affair with an mp. she fought off attempts to oust her and was elected to parliament in 2010. she was quickly promoted, first to education minister. those who worked with her back then say she was always across the detail. one of the things that successful teams need is someone who really believes in an idea, and liz really believes in a lot of very big ideas. when i worked for her, we called her the minister for maths. this was a real focal point. she can create a team through her beliefs, through her passion, through her evangelism for important ideas. herfirst cabinetjob

was environment secretary. it was obvious, though, that some work would be needed on her presentational skills. we import two thirds of our cheese. that...is...a...disgrace! liz. when the brexit referendum was called, she campaigned to stay in the eu — something she later said was wrong. nicola horlick, a liberal democrat, was part of that remain team. for somebody to say, you know, i have this conviction about one thing, and the next day, actually, i was wrong about that and i've got now a different conviction, when it seems that that's just about getting power, that really concerns me. you don't agree with liz truss on lots of things. do you think she's got any qualities that will make her a decent prime minister? you've got this person who is very disciplined, very well organised, but is lacking on the communication and charisma side. but friends says she does know how to get her message across and her instagram posts show her playful side.

ruder colleagues think her love of a photo opportunity betrays a superficiality. she was certainly mocked for this regal pose last christmas. her promotion to foreign secretary has given her a global platform. some think there are less than subtle echoes of margaret thatcher — a comparison she loves. liz truss will be britain's third female prime minister. life for her, her husband and two daughters is about to change, and no one's underestimating the challenges that lie ahead. vicki young, bbc news, westminster. labour's response, what should be the strategy from keir starmer in terms of dealing with liz truss? well, i think we have to continue to demonstrate that when it comes to sharing the priorities of the british people, having answers to their concerns and being a serious, credible alternative to the

conservatives that when voters go to the ballot box facing another four or five years of a conservative government as a big risk than choosing change with labour. i think across a whole range of issues with demonstrated that we are more serious, more thoughtful and will not going to make promises we can't keep which is probably going to be, in addition to her in tray, the biggest challenge for liz truss is going to be all of these hostages to fortune she's created by making all sorts of promises to conservative members without thinking at all about what's right for the country. so not going to be a change in approach to the way keir starmer dealt with borisjohnson as prime minister? as you say, a serious contender, a thoughtful contender in the way that you have presented it. but liz truss is not borisjohnson, she will be different. she but liz truss is not boris johnson, she will be different.— she will be different. she will try and present _ she will be different. she will try and present herself _ she will be different. she will try and present herself as _ she will be different. she will try and present herself as change i she will be different. she will try i and present herself as change and when you look at the reinvention that liz truss has undergone from remain to be in championed by

brexiteers from the liberal democrat we saw canal being a true blue conservative opening as a conservative, she might well try and present herself as change but really after 12 years of conservative government, with the prospectus she's offering, cannot really answer the call of change the country as crying out for? i'm not convinced. i also think she went into this contest presenting herself as the loyalistjohnson torchbearer. i think when it comes to standards in public life, when it comes to the conduct of government, how she presents herself as a candidate for change. it’s presents herself as a candidate for chance. �* , , . change. it's interesting that contradiction _ change. it's interesting that contradiction that _ change. it's interesting that contradiction that wes - change. it's interesting that - contradiction that wes streeting is right, she has very much played on her loyalty to borisjohnson. we heard it in her speech as she was announced the new leader of the conservative party and praised him and yet she is going to be different or wants to be different. how is she going to pull that off? that

or wants to be different. how is she going to pull that off?— going to pull that off? that is the -e rate going to pull that off? that is the type rate because _ going to pull that off? that is the type rate because in _ going to pull that off? that is the type rate because in this - going to pull that off? that is the type rate because in this contest| type rate because in this contest her policy— type rate because in this contest her policy platform has been true blue, _ her policy platform has been true blue. it's — her policy platform has been true blue, it's what the conservative party— blue, it's what the conservative party wants to hear and that's why she won _ party wants to hear and that's why she won 57%. it's not the 2019 manifesto, it's not about what boris johnson _ manifesto, it's not about what boris johnson was promising, his whole agenda _ johnson was promising, his whole agenda was about tackling inequality through— agenda was about tackling inequality through levelling up but then you heard _ through levelling up but then you heard on— through levelling up but then you heard on her interview yesterday on the bbc_ heard on her interview yesterday on the bbc that not actually interested in that, _ the bbc that not actually interested in that, she is interested in more growth~ — in that, she is interested in more growth. this is why all these comparisons are made to margaret thatcher— comparisons are made to margaret thatcher because that was the core of her _ thatcher because that was the core of her agenda thatcher because that was the core of heragenda in thatcher because that was the core of her agenda in the latter years of her premiership. so, that's where the difference lies but the question is how— the difference lies but the question is how is— the difference lies but the question is how is that going to play with the country? we've got a good while until the _ the country? we've got a good while until the next election, 18 months, could _ until the next election, 18 months, could be _ until the next election, 18 months, could be two years but until that point we'll have to see can she balance — point we'll have to see can she balance those things? it might make the conservative party feel good but will it— the conservative party feel good but will it make the voters feel good he voted _ will it make the voters feel good he voted for— will it make the voters feel good he voted forjohnson in 2019?- voted forjohnson in 2019? there's somethin: voted forjohnson in 2019? there's something quite — voted forjohnson in 2019? there's something quite interesting -

voted forjohnson in 2019? there's something quite interesting in - voted forjohnson in 2019? there's something quite interesting in the| something quite interesting in the way wes— something quite interesting in the way wes talks _ something quite interesting in the way wes talks about _ something quite interesting in the way wes talks about the - something quite interesting in the way wes talks about the labour. way wes talks about the labour party's — way wes talks about the labour party's pitch~ _ way wes talks about the labour party's pitch~ it _ way wes talks about the labour party's pitch. it sounded - way wes talks about the labour party's pitch. it sounded to - way wes talks about the labour party's pitch. it sounded to me| way wes talks about the labour. party's pitch. it sounded to me as though— party's pitch. it sounded to me as though you — party's pitch. it sounded to me as though you were _ party's pitch. it sounded to me as though you were saying _ party's pitch. it sounded to me as though you were saying the - though you were saying the british people _ though you were saying the british people would _ though you were saying the british people would quite _ though you were saying the british people would quite like _ though you were saying the british people would quite like a - though you were saying the british people would quite like a party- people would quite like a party that's— people would quite like a party that's a — people would quite like a party that's a bit— people would quite like a party that's a bit boring. _ people would quite like a party that's a bit boring. everythingi people would quite like a partyi that's a bit boring. everything is sorted _ that's a bit boring. everything is sorted said _ that's a bit boring. everything is sorted said about _ that's a bit boring. everything is sorted said about we _ that's a bit boring. everything is sorted said about we are - that's a bit boring. everything is. sorted said about we are serious, that's a bit boring. everything is- sorted said about we are serious, we don't _ sorted said about we are serious, we don't rush— sorted said about we are serious, we don't rush policies— sorted said about we are serious, we don't rush policies and _ sorted said about we are serious, we don't rush policies and we _ sorted said about we are serious, we don't rush policies and we are - sorted said about we are serious, we don't rush policies and we are goingi don't rush policies and we are going to be _ don't rush policies and we are going to be less _ don't rush policies and we are going to be less of— don't rush policies and we are going to be less of a — don't rush policies and we are going to be less of a risk— don't rush policies and we are going to be less of a risk than _ don't rush policies and we are going to be less of a risk than the - to be less of a risk than the conservatives. _ to be less of a risk than the conservatives. given- to be less of a risk than the conservatives. given that l to be less of a risk than the i conservatives. given that liz to be less of a risk than the - conservatives. given that liz truss can be _ conservatives. given that liz truss can be quite — conservatives. given that liz truss can be quite erratic— conservatives. given that liz truss can be quite erratic at— conservatives. given that liz truss can be quite erratic at times, - conservatives. given that liz truss can be quite erratic at times, we l can be quite erratic at times, we see that — can be quite erratic at times, we see that during _ can be quite erratic at times, we see that during her— can be quite erratic at times, we see that during her campaign- can be quite erratic at times, we. see that during her campaign with various— see that during her campaign with various u—turns_ see that during her campaign with various u—turns and _ see that during her campaign with various u—turns and also - see that during her campaign with. various u—turns and also anecdotes from _ various u—turns and also anecdotes from colleagues _ various u—turns and also anecdotes from colleagues who very - various u—turns and also anecdotes from colleagues who very much - various u—turns and also anecdotes from colleagues who very much a l from colleagues who very much a supporter— from colleagues who very much a supporter but _ from colleagues who very much a supporter but think— from colleagues who very much a supporter but think she _ from colleagues who very much a supporter but think she can - from colleagues who very much a supporter but think she can be i from colleagues who very much a supporter but think she can be ai from colleagues who very much a . supporter but think she can be a bit random, _ supporter but think she can be a bit random, but— supporter but think she can be a bit random, but perhaps _ supporter but think she can be a bit random, but perhaps boring - supporter but think she can be a bit random, but perhaps boring is- supporter but think she can be a bit. random, but perhaps boring is good. are you _ random, but perhaps boring is good. are you going — random, but perhaps boring is good. are you going to— random, but perhaps boring is good. are you going to own _ random, but perhaps boring is good. are you going to own boring? - random, but perhaps boring is good. are you going to own boring? we are takin: a are you going to own boring? we are taking a serious _ are you going to own boring? we are taking a serious approach _ are you going to own boring? we are taking a serious approach and - are you going to own boring? we are taking a serious approach and we - are you going to own boring? we are taking a serious approach and we are j taking a serious approach and we are mindful of why we lost the last election, in fact why we lost the last four. , , ., �* last four. definitely won't boring then. last four. definitely won't boring then- know. _ last four. definitely won't boring then. know, you can _ last four. definitely won't boring then. know, you can be - last four. definitely won't boring then. know, you can be as - last four. definitely won't boring i then. know, you can be as exciting as ou then. know, you can be as exciting as you like — then. know, you can be as exciting as you like but _ then. know, you can be as exciting as you like but if _ then. know, you can be as exciting as you like but if you _ then. know, you can be as exciting as you like but if you are _ then. know, you can be as exciting as you like but if you are shocking | as you like but if you are shocking people in the wrong way and repelling voters, you don't get a chance to deliver anything. we make no apologies for the fact, sometimes we come in for a bit of criticism of

racial policy on x, y, or will we spend eight, b or c? unless we thought it through, unless we can show how we would pay for it and unless it answers the challenges of the country we aren't going to be shooting from the hip every week. when i think we'd be very effective this summer is taking the single biggest issue facing the country, having a well thought through solution that would help everyone in our country with the cost of living but also particular recognise that pensioners and people on lower incomes are particularly suffering and we are funding it with a windfall tax on oil and gas companies. what i found amusing about the front pages today, particularly the daily telegraph, is that liz truss seems to be tying himself in knots trying to deliver the same outcome that labour is proposing, but she doesn't want to go near the windfall tax for no other reason than labour is proposing it. ithink other reason than labour is proposing it. i think that's very short—sighted and churlish, it's short—sighted and churlish, its popular with voters and would really deliver in people's pockets and would be a fair way of funding it,

she should just do it. abs, would be a fair way of funding it, she should just do it.— she should 'ust do it. a lot of --eole she should 'ust do it. a lot of people in — she should just do it. a lot of people in labour— she should just do it. a lot of people in labour might - she should just do it. a lot of people in labour might feel. she should just do it. a lot of- people in labour might feel quite pleased _ people in labour might feel quite pleased with the result. there was a poll this— pleased with the result. there was a poll this morning that shows with liz truss— poll this morning that shows with liz truss as prime minister the labour— liz truss as prime minister the labour lead increases from ten to 17. labour lead increases from ten to i7~ is _ labour lead increases from ten to i7~ is there — labour lead increases from ten to 17. is there a danger you're underestimating her? she's gone through— underestimating her? she's gone through those different changes you've _ through those different changes you've talked about and some might see that _ you've talked about and some might see that as— you've talked about and some might see that as a criticism but others might— see that as a criticism but others might see — see that as a criticism but others might see it has a flexibility that she will— might see it has a flexibility that she will need to get through this crisis? _ she will need to get through this crisis? . she will need to get through this crisis? , ., .., , .y she will need to get through this crisis? , ., , .y ., crisis? there is no complacency on our art crisis? there is no complacency on our part and _ crisis? there is no complacency on our part and we — crisis? there is no complacency on our part and we know _ crisis? there is no complacency on our part and we know that - crisis? there is no complacency on our part and we know that we - crisis? there is no complacency on our part and we know that we are l crisis? there is no complacency on i our part and we know that we are not going to win the next general election simply because the conservatives are rubbish and have a terrible record. we need people to believe in the alternative. that means having the right leadership, team, policies and programme and it needs to be trusted. that's why we've placed so much emphasis on showing how we can pay for policies, how we can deliver and how we would make a meaningful difference to people is lives.— people is lives. let's hear from keir starmer _ people is lives. let's hear from keir starmer the _ people is lives. let's hear from keir starmer the labour - people is lives. let's hear from | keir starmer the labour leader, reacting to the result. well, we've heard far more

from the latest prime minister about cuts to corporation tax over the summer than we have about the cost of living crisis — the single most important thing that's bearing down on so many millions of households. and that shows not only that she's out of touch, but she's not on the side of working people. so she needs to deal with the cost of living crisis, she needs to deal with the fact the nhs is on its knees, and she needs to deal with the collapse of law and order. and there can be nojustification for not freezing energy prices. there's a political consensus that that needs to happen. she needs to answer the question, how is she going to pay for that. that was keir starmer. nicola sturgeon, more reaction from the first minister.

you heard keir starmer, she is out of touch, she doesn't understand working people, despite what she has said throughout the campaign. and as a result she isjust said throughout the campaign. and as a result she is just continuity borisjohnson. a result she is 'ust continuity boris johnson._ a result she is 'ust continuity boris johnson. she's going to be 'udued b boris johnson. she's going to be judged by her — boris johnson. she's going to be judged by her actions. _ boris johnson. she's going to be judged by her actions. i - boris johnson. she's going to be judged by her actions. i don't i boris johnson. she's going to be i judged by her actions. i don't think there's anything continuity about it. the one continuity is her positive longer term vision. the difference with borisjohnson is she really goes into detail about what needs to done now.— really goes into detail about what needs to done now. except for saying whether energy _ needs to done now. except for saying whether energy bills _ needs to done now. except for saying whether energy bills should - needs to done now. except for saying whether energy bills should be - whether energy bills should be frozen. f whether energy bills should be frozen. j ., . whether energy bills should be frozen. f ., . . ., . whether energy bills should be frozen. j ., . . ., . ., ., frozen. they've got a choice of two thins. frozen. they've got a choice of two things- what _ frozen. they've got a choice of two things. what you _ frozen. they've got a choice of two things. what you think _ frozen. they've got a choice of two things. what you think she - frozen. they've got a choice of two things. what you think she should | things. what you think she should do? the choice _ things. what you think she should do? the choice continuation - things. what you think she should do? the choice continuation so i things. what you think she should j do? the choice continuation so far this ear, do? the choice continuation so far this year. let _ do? the choice continuation so far this year, let the _ do? the choice continuation so far this year, let the price _ do? the choice continuation so farj this year, let the price mechanism take the hit but then give temporary, targeted help to those people in need, helping out those people in need, helping out those people who can't afford their bills. the challenge without so far this year has been that small firms have not received as much help as they would have liked. plan b which is probably where one should be now

focusing its prices are now so high that people and firms are already adjusting their behaviour. prices are so dislocated, therefore there is a strong argument to get in and cut prices and then the government takes the risk of consumers, the general public and firms. so, the positive is that there will be action. the question is whether you go down the price rate or the fixing. mil go down the price rate or the fixina. �* �* , ,., fixing. all right. let's get some reaction from _ fixing. all right. let's get some reaction from the _ fixing. all right. let's get some reaction from the secretary i fixing. all right. let's get some reaction from the secretary of i fixing. all right. let's get some i reaction from the secretary of state for wales, reaction from the secretary of state forwales, robert reaction from the secretary of state for wales, robert buckland is there on college green. initially supporting rishi sunak up until relatively recently and then liz truss who is now going to be prime minister. shameless, says wes streeting in the studio, robert. your reaction to the result. well, it is a very _ your reaction to the result. well, it is a very important _ your reaction to the result. well, it is a very important moment. i your reaction to the result. well, i it is a very important moment. now we have a debate within the conservative party, it's now time to unite and focus upon the issues affecting people up and down the country, most notably the challenge

upon energy with regard to business and households. that is what i'm confident the new government will focus on, notjust in the weeks ahead but in the days ahead in order to address this unprecedented challenge. 50 to address this unprecedented challenue. i. �* to address this unprecedented challenue. �* , . challenge. so you're expecting something _ challenge. so you're expecting something in _ challenge. so you're expecting something in the _ challenge. so you're expecting something in the next - challenge. so you're expecting something in the next few i challenge. so you're expecting| something in the next few days rather than waiting for the next few weeks. what made you switch allegiance? it weeks. what made you switch allegiance?— weeks. what made you switch alleiance? .,, ., ., , ,, allegiance? it was a long process and it wasn't _ allegiance? it was a long process and it wasn't easy, _ allegiance? it was a long process and it wasn't easy, frankly. i've l and it wasn't easy, frankly. i've had my critics but frankly i did it at a time when i didn't really know what the outcome is going to be, it was about a month ago.— was about a month ago. really? i think we've _ was about a month ago. really? i think we've known _ was about a month ago. really? i think we've known for _ was about a month ago. really? i think we've known for about i was about a month ago. really? i think we've known for about six . think we've known for about six weeks. ma; think we've known for about six weeks. g . , ., think we've known for about six weeks. g .,., . think we've known for about six weeks. g . , weeks. my decision was made 'ust under a month i weeks. my decision was made 'ust under a month ago i weeks. my decision was made 'ust under a month ago and i i weeks. my decision was made just under a month ago and i looked i weeks. my decision was made just under a month ago and i looked at the issues, in particular i had reasons relating to constitutional law and the bill of rights which i've written about extensively in the national newspapers. i was particularly concerned that we reflected what i want to see from constitutional rights reform and also i got a sense that liz was

offering... also i got a sense that liz was offering- - -_ also i got a sense that liz was offerin: . .. ,, ., ., ., offering... she was going to win! look, offering... she was going to win! look. the — offering... she was going to win! look, the result _ offering... she was going to win! look, the result to _ offering... she was going to win! look, the result to date - offering... she was going to win! look, the result to date has i offering... she was going to win! | look, the result to date has been slightly closer than people thought, it's still a comprehensive victory but people are entitled to change their mind and to do so honestly and straightforwardly. i’m their mind and to do so honestly and straightforwardly.— straightforwardly. i'm 'ust going to... i straightforwardly. i'm 'ust going to... r mosh straightforwardly. i'm 'ust going to... i make no_ straightforwardly. i'm just going to... i make no apology. - straightforwardly. i'm just going to... i make no apology. sorry l straightforwardly. i'm just going | to... i make no apology. sorry to straightforwardly. i'm just going i to... i make no apology. sorry to be rude but we — to... i make no apology. sorry to be rude but we were _ to... i make no apology. sorry to be rude but we were just _ to... i make no apology. sorry to be rude but we were just looking i to... i make no apology. sorry to be rude but we were just looking at i rude but we were just looking at pictures of liz truss on the steps of conservative central office, she going in no doubt to talk to staff ahead of what's going to unfold. apologies for cutting across you. if you are going to convince anybody? it's clear that people switch allegiance because they want to back the winner and you may still have a place in the cabinet. fundamentally, this leadership _ place in the cabinet. fundamentally, this leadership debate _ place in the cabinet. fundamentally, this leadership debate shouldn't i this leadership debate shouldn't have been about the personalities, it's about the issues, actually any issues that matter to the british people and this is a very serious time for government. it's time for people to put aside whatjob they

want and think about what matters to the public and the issue of the day, the public and the issue of the day, the big issue is the cost of energy, the big issue is the cost of energy, the cost of fuel. that is what the new government has to deal with and thatis new government has to deal with and that is what we've got to focus on resolutely. that is what we've got to focus on resolutely-— resolutely. right. what was it in our resolutely. right. what was it in your mind. _ resolutely. right. what was it in your mind, because _ resolutely. right. what was it in your mind, because as - resolutely. right. what was it in your mind, because as you i resolutely. right. what was it in your mind, because as you say l resolutely. right. what was it in i your mind, because as you say those are the big issues, that is the biggest issue, the cost of living and people trying to find the money to pay their bills. at one point rishi sunak's campaign, which is supported, said that her plans were immoral. so when they become moral? that was a problem for me. conservatives shouldn't accuse each other of being immoral, we are not immoral, we are trying to sincerely with good will reach the right conclusions to reflect the concerns of the people. i knew that we would be facing the new average price cap, i knew that any prime minister whether rishi sunak or liz truss would be faced with a very serious challenge. and pragmatism and sense of realism is the order of day.

that's what we are going to see from liz in the early days of her premiership. how will she do that? will there be other mp5 who have supported rishi sunak throughout who will follow what you say now, or will there be i suppose an understandable level of bitterness? ma; suppose an understandable level of bitterness? ., . . bitterness? my strong advice about --eole bitterness? my strong advice about eo - le who bitterness? my strong advice about people who might _ bitterness? my strong advice about people who might be _ bitterness? my strong advice about people who might be on _ bitterness? my strong advice about people who might be on the - bitterness? my strong advice about people who might be on the losing | people who might be on the losing side is, don't get bitter about it. deal with the situation. i faced the situation last year when i left government unexpectedly. no point in being bitter, pick yourself up and work togetherfor being bitter, pick yourself up and work together for the good of the country. that's what conservatives have been historically very good at and that's what i expect every conservative mp and colleague to do now bearing in mind what is in the minds of businesses and households as we speak today. we owe it to the british people to rise to the level of events and i'm confident liz truss and her new team can do that. robert buckland, secretary of state

for wales, thank you. i know what you think... for wales, thank you. i know what you think- - -_ you think... sorry for heckling. that was _ you think... sorry for heckling. that was clear _ you think... sorry for heckling. that was clear throughout, i you think... sorry for heckling. l that was clear throughout, what you think... sorry for heckling. i that was clear throughout, what you think. isabel hardman, your reaction. i think. isabel hardman, your reaction-— think. isabel hardman, your reaction. ~ , ., reaction. i think his point about the conservatives _ reaction. i think his point about the conservatives being - reaction. i think his point about the conservatives being very i the conservatives being very dedicated to winning is an important one. they are not like the labour party in that they are never comfortable losing, sorry, wes. there will be a will to try to achieve the gravity defying trick of winning the next election, which will be very difficult for them but i think there are so many holes that liz truss can trip over in the next few months. we have talked about the cost of living butjust to come back to an obsession of mine and your obsession as well, wes, the nhs. i have finished a book on it, and its 75 year history, and i don't think the health service has been in this great and existential crisis in its entire history and i am not sure the conservatives have ever been more clueless about how to fix it.-

clueless about how to fix it. gerard l ons, clueless about how to fix it. gerard lyons. more _ clueless about how to fix it. gerard lyons, more clueless? _ clueless about how to fix it. gerard lyons, more clueless? i— clueless about how to fix it. gerard lyons, more clueless? i was - clueless about how to fix it. gerard lyons, more clueless? i was going| clueless about how to fix it. gerard i lyons, more clueless? i was going to ut in lyons, more clueless? i was going to put in another _ lyons, more clueless? i was going to put in another additional _ lyons, more clueless? i was going to put in another additional issue. - lyons, more clueless? i was going to put in another additional issue. in - put in another additional issue. in terms _ put in another additional issue. in terms of— put in another additional issue. in terms of health, the conservative approach — terms of health, the conservative approach will probably be that in terms _ approach will probably be that in terms of— approach will probably be that in terms of the nhs they have provided lots of— terms of the nhs they have provided lots of money to it and it's about public— lots of money to it and it's about public sector reform. the issue raised — public sector reform. the issue raised earlier was about indexation of public— raised earlier was about indexation of public services generally. higher inflation _ of public services generally. higher inflation has given the treasury win full boost _ inflation has given the treasury win full boost sound revenues but it will pose — full boost sound revenues but it will pose questions about departmental budgets and benefits. they will— departmental budgets and benefits. they will be cut. lots departmental budgets and benefits. they will be cut.— they will be cut. lots of these thin . s they will be cut. lots of these things probably _ they will be cut. lots of these things probably don't - they will be cut. lots of these things probably don't have - they will be cut. lots of these l things probably don't have time they will be cut. lots of these - things probably don't have time to be addressed in september. the budget— be addressed in september. the budget will either have to be fully before _ budget will either have to be fully before the end of the year, if it is called _ before the end of the year, if it is called the — before the end of the year, if it is called the statement in the next three _ called the statement in the next three weeks or an early budget in march _ three weeks or an early budget in march next year when they will be addressed. i was going to say bigger issues, _ addressed. i was going to say bigger issues, things outside downing street's— issues, things outside downing street's control, mainly in terms of the financial markets. the last few weeks _ the financial markets. the last few weeks have seen a strong dollar across _ weeks have seen a strong dollar across the — weeks have seen a strong dollar across the board with the pound weakening. the last few weeks across western _ weakening. the last few weeks across western europe bond yields have

risen _ western europe bond yields have risen because interest rates are higher— risen because interest rates are higher and inflation is going up. it will higher and inflation is going up. will cost higher and inflation is going up. it will cost more to service the debt. that is not really the issue in the sense _ that is not really the issue in the sense that — that is not really the issue in the sense that it is fully costed in the sense _ sense that it is fully costed in the sense that — sense that it is fully costed in the sense that 25% of borrowing doesn't come _ sense that 25% of borrowing doesn't come out _ sense that 25% of borrowing doesn't come out of day to day spending. we can still— come out of day to day spending. we can still borrow at around 3% which is negative — can still borrow at around 3% which is negative to the interest rates and rates — is negative to the interest rates and rates of inflation. i was going to say— and rates of inflation. i was going to say that — and rates of inflation. i was going to say that in terms of the financial— to say that in terms of the financial markets, one needs to have policies _ financial markets, one needs to have policies that — financial markets, one needs to have policies that are seen as credible and effective so that the pound will probably— and effective so that the pound will probably continue to weaken because the dollar— probably continue to weaken because the dollar is so strong but we don't want _ the dollar is so strong but we don't want to— the dollar is so strong but we don't want to see — the dollar is so strong but we don't want to see a situation where the turbulence — want to see a situation where the turbulence in the markets becomes peculiar— turbulence in the markets becomes peculiar to— turbulence in the markets becomes peculiar to the uk as opposed to at the moment where it is more broad—based. do the moment where it is more broad-based.— the moment where it is more broad-based. do you agree with substantial _ broad-based. do you agree with substantial amounts _ broad-based. do you agree with substantial amounts of - broad-based. do you agree with l substantial amounts of borrowing going up at this particular point, to firstly help people and also support departments like the nhs? lute support departments like the nhs? , have been very careful to avoid just reaching for borrowing is the answer. rachel reeves set out fiscal rules that made a distinction

between capital investment, investment in things like railways, bricks and mortar, things that ultimately pay for themselves in the long term and help drive economic growth, and day to day spending. we said in ourfiscal growth, and day to day spending. we said in our fiscal rules we will not borrow for day to day spending. that's why we set out our plans for the windfall tax to help people with bills, we didn't say put on more borrowing. when we think about investment in public services, we are hesitating before setting out clear spending commitments because we know by the next election so much will depend on the climate and the economy and how much fiscal headroom there race and we are being cautious and careful and we are being, i hope, reassuring to voters because i do think, and the irony for me in discussions like this, and this is something i think the left finds hard to hear sometimes, we are judged by the same people, the electorate, on completely different terms to the conservatives. we could announce identical policies and we could both say they are funded by borrowing. if a conservative says it

is funded by borrowing they will go, it's all right, it's the tories. if labour reaches for that answer then people don't buy it so we are thinking carefully about making sure we address voters' concerns while also reassuring we can deliver. we are not going to create hostages to fortune. i think rachel reeves has been very clear about attacking the high tax economy we have which is driven by low growth. ourfocus high tax economy we have which is driven by low growth. our focus on getting growth back into the economy, and i must make this point, if the economy under this government had grown at the same rate as under the last labour government, there would be £30 billion more to spend on public services without raising a single additional penny in taxes. just briefly, in response to that. is it true that they are judged by different metrics? l is it true that they are 'udged by different metrics?— is it true that they are 'udged by different metrics? i think there is certainly some — different metrics? i think there is certainly some truth _ different metrics? i think there is certainly some truth to _ different metrics? i think there is certainly some truth to that. - different metrics? i think there is l certainly some truth to that. there is more _ certainly some truth to that. there is more of— certainly some truth to that. there is more of a — certainly some truth to that. there is more of a natural inclination to trust _ is more of a natural inclination to trust politicians on the right with

the economy. this comes to the heart of li2— the economy. this comes to the heart of liz truss's — the economy. this comes to the heart of liz truss's biggest challenge. he says she _ of liz truss's biggest challenge. he says she won't be made or broken by this winter— says she won't be made or broken by this winter but i think she might be. this winter but i think she might be if_ this winter but i think she might be if the — this winter but i think she might be. if the cost of living package doesn't — be. if the cost of living package doesn't meet what the country needs, doesn't _ doesn't meet what the country needs, doesn't calm down the markets and doesn't _ doesn't calm down the markets and doesn't create a public debt crisis, but if— doesn't create a public debt crisis, but if any— doesn't create a public debt crisis, but if any of— doesn't create a public debt crisis, but if any of those go wrong then it's it _ but if any of those go wrong then it's it for— but if any of those go wrong then it's it for her premiership and she will spend — it's it for her premiership and she will spend until the next election on the _ will spend until the next election on the back foot and labour can make the argument, the conservatives have brokered _ the argument, the conservatives have brokered it. _ the argument, the conservatives have brokered it, give us a chance. but if she _ brokered it, give us a chance. but if she gets — brokered it, give us a chance. but if she gets a — brokered it, give us a chance. but if she gets a right and does what labour— if she gets a right and does what labour has — if she gets a right and does what labour has suggested with some tax cuts thrown in, i think she will start— cuts thrown in, i think she will start offer— cuts thrown in, i think she will start offer better foot in 23 and she is — start offer better foot in 23 and she is an — start offer better foot in 23 and she is an opportunity to do as she says— she is an opportunity to do as she says and — she is an opportunity to do as she says and deliver some extra stuff. to come _ says and deliver some extra stuff. to come to — says and deliver some extra stuff. to come to back to what wes says about _ to come to back to what wes says about hesitating _ to come to back to what wes says about hesitating with _ to come to back to what wes says about hesitating with policies. - to come to back to what wes says| about hesitating with policies. you have had _ about hesitating with policies. you have had big — about hesitating with policies. you have had big policy— about hesitating with policies. you have had big policy wins _ about hesitating with policies. you have had big policy wins with - about hesitating with policies. you have had big policy wins with the l have had big policy wins with the energy— have had big policy wins with the energy bill— have had big policy wins with the energy bill freeze, _ have had big policy wins with the energy bill freeze, is _ have had big policy wins with the energy bill freeze, is it _ have had big policy wins with the energy bill freeze, is it not - have had big policy wins with the energy bill freeze, is it not timel energy bill freeze, is it not time to stop — energy bill freeze, is it not time to stop hesitating _ energy bill freeze, is it not time to stop hesitating and _ energy bill freeze, is it not time to stop hesitating and get - energy bill freeze, is it not time to stop hesitating and get more| energy bill freeze, is it not time - to stop hesitating and get more news out there _ to stop hesitating and get more news out there to — to stop hesitating and get more news out there to make _ to stop hesitating and get more news out there to make people _ to stop hesitating and get more news out there to make people more - out there to make people more comfortable _ out there to make people more

comfortable. we _ out there to make people more comfortable.— out there to make people more comfortable. ~ ., ., .., . comfortable. we do have conference cominu comfortable. we do have conference coming up- — comfortable. we do have conference coming up- we _ comfortable. we do have conference coming up- we only _ comfortable. we do have conference coming up. we only have _ comfortable. we do have conference coming up. we only have about - comfortable. we do have conference coming up. we only have about six l coming up. we only have about six minutes left _ coming up. we only have about six minutes left on _ coming up. we only have about six minutes left on the _ coming up. we only have about six minutes left on the programme. i minutes left on the programme. doesn't time fly when you're having fun, to quote. damian green is on couege fun, to quote. damian green is on college green, rather conveniently for us. the first secretary of state under theresa may and back to rishi sunak in the leadership contest. your man lost, what's your response? obviously i would have preferred rishi sunak to win but it's now the job of all of us in the conservative party to rally behind liz truss is the new prime minister and in particular, picking up on your previous discussion, i am looking forward to hearing the energy support package she says she will produce very urgently. i think that's exactly the right thing to do and the country needs it. that'll be the first big announcement and i agree that it's very important to hit the ground running. rishi sunak and liz truss _ hit the ground running. rishi sunak and liz truss class _ hit the ground running. rishi sunak and liz truss class throughout - hit the ground running. rishi sunak and liz truss class throughout in i and liz truss class throughout in terms of the response, economically, to the crisis. do think liz truss's

plans to cut tax are immoral? his. to the crisis. do think liz truss's plans to cut tax are immoral? no, i don't. plans to cut tax are immoral? no, i don't- we — plans to cut tax are immoral? no, i don't- we don't _ plans to cut tax are immoral? no, i don't. we don't know _ plans to cut tax are immoral? no, i don't. we don't know what - plans to cut tax are immoral? no, i don't. we don't know what the - plans to cut tax are immoral? idol, i don't. we don't know what the plans are yet. some of the support will obviously have to come directly into people's pockets and we can all discuss over the coming days what the exact mix should be but i think part of that needs to be a significant part of the response. but having some tax cuts is another part of the response is perfectly sensible. d0 part of the response is perfectly sensible. , ., ~ , ., sensible. do you think they are fair, the policies _ sensible. do you think they are fair, the policies she _ sensible. do you think they are fair, the policies she has - sensible. do you think they are - fair, the policies she has suggested in terms of cutting taxes for all, which would benefit those higher up the income scale or not? the?r which would benefit those higher up the income scale or not?— the income scale or not? they can be. and i suspect _ the income scale or not? they can be. and i suspect they _ the income scale or not? they can be. and i suspect they will - the income scale or not? they can be. and i suspect they will be, - be. and i suspect they will be, because they will be part of a wider package. more importantly, the people in the country who are worried about their bills willjudge them on the overall package, the balance between direct support, perhaps particularly targeted on non—those who need it most and tax cuts that might affect and be

welcomed by the whole population. l welcomed by the whole population. i am using some of these words, some of the things rishi sunak said throughout the campaign. can you now so easily stand there within one hour or so of liz truss being announced as the next conservative leader and prime minister of the country and just forget about the fact that you agreed with the sentiment that borrowing your way out of this was going to cause destitution for further generations? we have had an election campaign and in all campaigns tough things are said. ,, , ., ., ., said. sure, did you mean them or did ou not at said. sure, did you mean them or did you not at the — said. sure, did you mean them or did you not at the time? _ said. sure, did you mean them or did you not at the time? i _ said. sure, did you mean them or did you not at the time? i haven't - said. sure, did you mean them or did you not at the time? i haven't said i you not at the time? i haven't said an of you not at the time? i haven't said any of that- _ you not at the time? i haven't said any of that- l _ you not at the time? i haven't said any of that. i supported _ you not at the time? i haven't said any of that. i supported tom - any of that. i supported tom tugendhat, then penny mordaunt and then rishi sunak. is tugendhat, then penny mordaunt and then rishi sunak.— then rishi sunak. is her economic ian then rishi sunak. is her economic [an a then rishi sunak. is her economic plan a fairy _ then rishi sunak. is her economic plan a fairy tale? _ then rishi sunak. is her economic plan a fairy tale? no. _ then rishi sunak. is her economic plan a fairy tale? no. i _ then rishi sunak. is her economic plan a fairy tale? no. i am - plan a fairy tale? no. i am confident _ plan a fairy tale? no. i am confident that _ plan a fairy tale? no. i am confident that my - plan a fairy tale? no. i am. confident that my conscious plan a fairy tale? no. i am - confident that my conscious you are using rishi sunak's words. liz truss said she will concentrate

on delivery and she has said within a few days we will have the outlines of the support package and i think it is sensible for everyone to judge her and new government on what's in that package and that's what matters to people in their real lives. she won the majority _ to people in their real lives. she won the majority of party members but not the parliamentary party. the last person to be elected leader of the conservative party in that situation was iain duncan smith. does it bode well? i situation was iain duncan smith. does it bode well?— does it bode well? i think it's a ureatl does it bode well? i think it's a greatly different _ does it bode well? i think it's a greatly different situation - does it bode well? i think it's a i greatly different situation because he was elected as leader of the opposition and liz truss is prime minister, therefore she has the government machine at her disposal and she is facing a hell of an in tray. everyone across the political spectrum agree that as prime minister she is facing a very difficult set of circumstances and what she said today is the perfectly sensible point that she will crack on straightaway at dealing with them and that's what will decide the success of her prime ministership.

damian green, thank you forjoining us today. let's talk about boris johnson. he hasn't left a number ten yet. gerard lyons, are you disappointed by the fact that maybe he won't be involved in front line politics again or are you hoping he will take a big back—seat? l politics again or are you hoping he will take a big back-seat?- politics again or are you hoping he will take a big back-seat? i have a neutral view— will take a big back-seat? i have a neutral view on _ will take a big back-seat? i have a neutral view on both _ will take a big back-seat? i have a neutral view on both of _ will take a big back-seat? i have a neutral view on both of those. in | neutral view on both of those. in terms of his record in the last few years, as was mentioned quite often this morning on the radio and probably across at qe2 centre, positive on brexit, positive on the vaccine and ukraine. we all know the reasons why he has left. i would tend to prefer to move on and come back to some of the points we were talking about with liz truss, actually. it is positive that at least the vision of borisjohnson is there but it's now probably more achievable to have a clear economic plan to go with it. instill achievable to have a clear economic plan to go with it— plan to go with it. will he take a back-seat? _ plan to go with it. will he take a back-seat? no. _ plan to go with it. will he take a back-seat? no. you _ plan to go with it. will he take a back-seat? no. you will- plan to go with it. will he take a back-seat? no. you will always | plan to go with it. will he take a i back-seat? no. you will always be on the front line — back-seat? no. you will always be on the front line in _ back-seat? no. you will always be on the front line in one _ back-seat? no. you will always be on the front line in one way _ back-seat? no. you will always be on the front line in one way or _ the front line in one way or another, _ the front line in one way or another, whether it's the green benches — another, whether it's the green benches in _ another, whether it's the green benches in the house of commons,

speaking _ benches in the house of commons, speaking tours, quiz shows, he is not someone who will retire to the library— not someone who will retire to the library and — not someone who will retire to the library and write think tank pamphlets. that's not going to happen — pamphlets. that's not going to happen. it's notjust about money. she not— happen. it's notjust about money. she not only has him on the backbenches, she also has rishi sunak— backbenches, she also has rishi sunak and — backbenches, she also has rishi sunak and theresa may was up quite a lot of people lined up. theresa may used to— lot of people lined up. theresa may used to criticise boris johnson quite — used to criticise boris johnson quite politely and cynically, getting up and asking a short and damning — getting up and asking a short and damning question before sitting down again _ damning question before sitting down again i_ damning question before sitting down again. i think boris might get more attention— again. i think boris might get more attention for his.— attention for his. boris johnson has told his friends _ attention for his. boris johnson has told his friends he _ attention for his. boris johnson has told his friends he wants _ attention for his. boris johnson has told his friends he wants to - attention for his. boris johnson has told his friends he wants to put i attention for his. boris johnson has told his friends he wants to put hay in the attic and sort out his personal financial situation. as we report in the financial times today, he might head out to the us and earn a quarter of $1 million per speech at various midwestern universities you haven't heard of. he might return to memoirs and newspapers but we haven't had the last of him for a long time. we we haven't had the last of him for a lona time. ~ . �* ., long time. we haven't mentioned the rivileues long time. we haven't mentioned the privileges committee. _ long time. we haven't mentioned the privileges committee. we _ long time. we haven't mentioned the privileges committee. we will-

long time. we haven't mentioned the privileges committee. we will have . privileges committee. we will have to deal with that tomorrow. thank you to my guest today. that's all for today, but i will be back tomorrow with more politics live at 12:15 here on bbc two and on the bbc iplayer.

this is bbc news. i'm jane hill. liz truss is chosen as the new conservative leader and will now suceed borisjohnson as our next prime minister. she won the backing of conservative party members, beating rishi sunak with 57% of the vote and says she will govern as a conservative and deliver what was promised to voters. i will deliver a bold plan to cut taxes and grow our economy. i will deliver on the energy crisis, dealing with people's energy bills, but also dealing with the long—term issues we have on energy supply. applause

the cost of living is likely to dominate a full