this is bbc news. the headlines: police in canada have confirmed a man suspected of killing ten people in the mess stabbing his died after being rested. . myles sanderson had been on the run since sunday, prompting a huge man—hunt. a police spokesperson described him as being in "medical distress" during his detention. the european union's outlined plans to introduce a price cap on russian gas. president putin threatened to cut off all energy supplies if such a step was taken. eu governments have accused moscow of using energy to blackmail them in retaliation for western support for ukraine following russia's invasion. officials in california have urged consumers to reduce their electricity usage as demand has soared

because of an extreme heatwave. people in the us state are being urged to turn down their air conditioning, switch off unneccesary lights, and avoid using major appliances in the afternoons and evenings. now on bbc news, it's hardtalk with stephen sackur. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. in three weeks�* time, italians vote in a general election. now, if the opinion polls are to be believed, the country is about to embrace a political movement with its roots in post—war fascism. what would that mean for italy and for europe? well, my guest today, here at the ambrosetti forum — a sort of italy—style davos gathering — is enrico letta, a former italian prime minister and leader of the centre—left democratic party. is his effort to keep the far right out of power doomed to fail?

enrico letta, welcome to hardtalk. thank you so much for the invitation. we appreciate your time, particularly because you are in the middle of a fiercely—fought election campaign. would you accept that right now, you in the centre—left look as though you are going to lose? no, i think we will win. how can you think that, when the raw mathematics of this election look so bad for you? and i say that because the right has coordinated, it has organised, there is a very clear coalition of interests between all the right—wing parties. they are fighting as a team.

you, on the left, are not. there are two reasons. first reason is the fact that there's 40% of the people saying that they will abstain, or they are not decided. they have not decided what they want to do. second, because the unity of the right is a fake. they are united today, but on any topic, they are starting to be divided. and we have three weeks to show that the unity is a fake unity, and we are able to be more accountable, more linear, more able to... mr letta, you may point to what you call the "fakeness" of their unity, but i come back to mathematics. the truth is, they have formed a coalition of interests, which means they are in very good position to win, particularly in the first—past—the—post constituencies, because they've

done a deal, that's the point. and for those watching and listening, it is clear that the brothers of italy, salvini's league, and berlusconi's forza italia have thought long and hard about how to win, and win big. and it looks as though they've got a formula that will work. i'm not saying that they are not in good position. i think they are in good position because their alliance is bigger than our alliance. that's the point. but the electoral campaign is still there. we have three weeks, we will keep fighting. some of your own colleagues think that you and senior leaders in the progressive centre—left have failed the italian people. i'm going to quote you nicola zingaretti, who is a senior figure in your own democratic party. he says, and i'm quoting him, he is "ashamed of the amount

"of internal wrangling on the left". are you ashamed, too? it was a declaration by zingaretti when he was leader before me, when he decided to resign. and then, he said the situation is a very bad situation. and he said exactly what you said. then they asked me to come and to try to unify the party, and to change the mood. so, this declaration is exactly what was the situation before. but with respect, my point is it hasn't really changed. for example, you tried to do a deal with the etzioni party, one of the smaller parties on the centre—left. you declared you had a deal that was going to help you win this election. within, i think, five days, that deal collapsed. the deal collapsed, but just for one part. the deal was with etzioni and piu europa, two parties united. calenda and emma bonino, together. calenda decided not to stay in the deal. he signed the deal,

and then, he left. but emma bonino and piu europa decided to stay. but what do you think the italian people make of it, when you do deals in the centre—left, and then, they collapse within literally days? i think they will sanction the one who decided to leave the deal. isn't the biggest problem of all, coming back to the mathematics — and you say this election is about more than mathematics — but isn't the biggest problem of all, that you have ruled out working with the one party that might make a real difference to your chances of overall success? that is the five star movement. you know, er... five stars movement, and conte, the leader of the five star movement, decided to topple draghi's government. we were the pillar of draghi's government. do you think is possible to say, "ok, we will continue, "and we will work together" if such a divide on the main topic, supporting or toppling a government?

so, they decided, they took the decision, they took their own responsibility. and we were... it was, for what we considered, it was necessary to take consequence of that. right, but i understand why you might feel bitterness and resentment, you were a great... it's not resentment, it's politics. but politics is about winning. and without five star, without the capacity to do a deal with them, you cannot win. let's be honest, you cannot win. but they decided to leave the coalition, because they decided to... but that's the past, that's the past, mr letta. the future is that if you are to be the next prime minister of italy... july the 20th is not the past. it was exactly what happened, to have this crazy situation. you know, we had draghi as prime minister. draghi means to have ronaldo or messi as prime minister. and they decided to topple draghi and to say, "now, game over with draghi".

i think it was an irresponsible choice. and we decided to say, "ok, we are accountable. "linear continuity. "we think that we were right, not wrong in the decision. "you were wrong when you decided to topple "the government." would it be fair to say that your chief tactic in this election campaign is try to scare italians? try to frighten them with the prospect of a far—right government, which some in your own party describe as neo—fascist? it is the reality. i think it's not a scare, it's not scaring. the reality is the fact that italy will choose in the next elections. as you said, there's the constituencies, so the first—past—the—post constituencies, then the situation is a situation in which we have their

proposal, our proposal. their proposal means to be, for instance, europe. their europe means poland, hungary, orban. the idea to be against brussels, against the communitarian way to work. our idea of europe means brussels, the relationship with the main european countries, so france, germany, spain. for us, if we win, italy will be in the first division in the europe, in the european union of the first division. if they win, italy will pass into a second division, in a different way to think about europe. this is just one example, i give you a second example — very important also for young people. they are in complete denial mode on climate change.

we are in a boot on climate change that fighting against climate change is the main mission of our generation. and i'm sure that young people, for instance, young people, i trust young people, i'm confident that young people will support us, because we are showing that our commitment on climate change is much better and important than their commitment. we'll come back to the substance, but i... actually, if i will, if i may, i'm going to repeat my question about your message on fear. one of your colleagues, laura boldrini, she says this. "giorgia meloni", she says, leader of the brothers of italy, er... ..has never had a reckoning with her movements past. "brothers of italy", says ms boldrini, "is infiltrated by declared fascist elements". is that your position? er...brothers of italy had a past, and a relationship with the past. this relationship with the past

is clear, is there, and italians are aware of that. my point is that we will win if we show to the italian people that they are a danger for italy of today because of their position of today. their position of today are a danger for the country, because they will put the country in a corner at european level, because they will create a problem on climate change, on the economy. the economy will, er... you know, they were in government ten years ago. ten years ago, they were in... 11 years ago, they were in government. and they bring...they brought italy close to bankruptcy. they will bring italy in a situation in which, on individual rights, for instance, part of the country won't be part of the family of being part of this community. which...which parts

of the country? the lgbtqi, for instance, community. they are against these kind of individual rights. their attitude is an attitude that is not the fair attitude that we want to have and to apply. but what we... this is just one example that i am giving you. meloni says she represents a patriotic italy, an italy of family values, of christian, conservative values. and it seems that is resonating with the italian public. how do you, on the progressive, the centre—left, fight that message? because we think that their idea, the idea of salvini, for instance, to say our model is the hungarian, orban family model, is not the one that we would like to support. this model is the model where women are at home, not working. this model is a model in which women educated is not the mission for the country.

this model is a model where the possibility to have equal opportunities is not the way in which the countries have to work. frankly speaking, for us, it is the moon and the sun. it's a completely different mood. and we will work to explain to the people the difference between us and them. but, with respect, there is evidence that many italians see you as a classic voice of the italian elite. it is fair to say that you've actually just come from an academicjob in paris, where you were working at sciences po, one of the leading universities in europe. now, that's impressive, but it doesn't indicate that you are in touch with the grassroots, with the ordinary lives of italian people. and the brothers of italy have an extraordinary grassroots organisation, where they clearly have devoted themselves to

listening to and talking with ordinary working italians. maybe you're out of touch. no, because we won all the most—important elections at local level in the last two years. it is the demonstration that, er...the mayors in italy, we won the largest part of the mayors in italy. so, when we go to the ground, we are showing that our party is a party of the people. the party where boots on the ground, we are there. we are a very popular party. and i have to say also, our main proposal is to say on the tax side of the programme, is to lower taxes on labour, because we think that the main problem of the country in italy is the fact that taxes on labour are higher than taxes on finance.

and we think that we have to push, to boost labour workers, and, er...we think that is our, also, mission. we are a party coming from the progressive side. mm. and progressive side means also, er... ..having the possibility to help workers to have a better life. but you are also seen as the party, perhaps, of the status quo. you talk about your admiration for draghi. frankly, in recent years, italy has not looked, to many italians, like a country that has solutions to problems. take one big challenge — migration. i... if one looks at the figures... hang on. if one looks at the figures most recent, this year, in the first half of the year, 3a,000 people arrived, migrants, arrived in italy by sea — much higher than the year previous.

it's a problem that is growing, and the current status quo doesn't appear to have answers. the right say they will completely change the situation by a naval blockade, ensuring that no migrants get into italian waters. you don't have a solution. that is a fake solution. you know very well that the naval blockage is a fake solution, useful only for political rallies before the electoral campaign. there's no naval blockage that is possible to be applied. so, you're saying there is no solution to the migration problem? no, there is no solution with the naval blockage. it's just an idea for... ..a rhetoric idea for propaganda during the electoral campaign. the migration problem needs a solution at european level. but you mentioned... but with respect, we've heard that year on year... no.

and none of the solutions that the commission, that brussels have come up with, have worked. none of them. you mentioned figures that are not showing that there's an invasion of italy. we are not under invasion. the main problem on migration, if i have to say, the main problem on migration is the hundreds of thousands of young italians leaving the country to go abroad to find a job. this is my mission — our mission, is to solve the problem of migration. that is the main problem of migration — to help these young people to find a solution, to find a job. the rest is manageable. it is manageable with the cooperation with the rest of europe. of course, you mentioned the problems of the european union on that, and you're right. i'm not, er...saying that there's no problem at european level. but the main problem —

the main problem is the fact that europe needs decisions and unanimity on these topics. but how urgent is this problem? because we see in lampedusa, for example... it is not the... ..we see ordinary italian people saying enough is enough. we see violence, frankly, on the streets of italian towns and cities... yes, but it is not... ..directed at migrants. it is not the number one problem, even for italians. if you ask in the polls, which is the main problem today for italy — jobs, energy costs — these are the two problems. migrants — we are talking migrants because we are in an electoral campaign, and because salvini and meloni are raising the flag because they want to scare people. they want to scare people. but talking of scaring people, you have suggested that if giorgia meloni becomes prime minister of italy, italy will no longer get the huge financial support that is currently coming from the european union. what — 200 billion euros

of support italy is going to get over the coming years, you say that will be cut off. giorgia meloni says that is entirely untrue. she is committed, she says, to working with the eu and respecting the eu's demands of italy. it's not true. she said she wants to renegotiate this deal. and i... she said she will try to work with brussels. she didn't say she'd walk away from the table. it is not renegotiable, because this deal is done. the italian parliament voted with a large majority. she didn't, because she were at the opposition, against draghi. but the rest of the majority, even salvini and berlusconi, in her, er...today, support, they voted in favour of the plan. and the plan is there. this european money is the future of the country. mm. if they lose this money... if they win the election, if they lose this money

because they are mismanaging the relationship with brussels, the responsibility will be enormous. so, my point is that they have... if... whoever wins the elections has one mission — to apply this money, this plan, and to show that, maybe for the first time, italians are good in spending european money. there's one important aspect of this we haven't touched on. that is italy's international role. and right now, of course, as part of the european union and nato, italy is one of the partners confronting vladimir putin's aggression in ukraine. your message, again, talking of fear, your message seems to be that nato partners, eu partners, should fear that the right would fundamentally change italy's position on putin, on the ukraine war. what evidence do you have for that?

it is not because of meloni on that, because meloni took a right position, even if she were at the opposition, she were in the opposition, but she supported draghi's government in taking the position against putin. my fear is about salvini and berlusconi. salvini and berlusconi took very ambiguous positions in these months. very ambiguous positions. and i'm sure that if the right wins in italy, the one who will be the happiest the night of september 25 would be vladimir putin. the second one will be trump and the third will be orban, but the first one will be putin. you've claimed that russia is meddling in this election, just as you claimed that russia meddled and tried to facilitate the downfall of mario draghi. where is your evidence? because i have seen you produce

no specific evidence. but the most important evidence is the fact that the energy cost crisis is happening now. and italy is the country, with germany... but... yes, yes, it is now, and... but that's not evidence that russia is actively trying to intervene in italian politics. but this point about the energy cost, as you know, is the most important point of the electoral campaign. if they continue to put the country in difficulty because of the cost of energy, that will create, for the right in italy, an enormous boost. at the beginning of the war, on the eve of the invasion, i believe italy's economy was, in terms of its usage of gas, 40% reliant on russian gas. in this coming winter, you are not going to have access to that level of russian gas. you may not get much

russian gas at all. what is your prescription for how italy copes with this massive energy shock? there are three main issues. first issue — we have to continue the diversification that draghi's government conducted. that means, of course, changing the way and the countries. no more russia and more angola or more mozambique or more algeria. having the gas terminals to, er...have the gas arriving from these countries. there are two main terminals. we are building two more terminals in the country. the second point is the price cap at european level. that is exactly what von der leyen and the rest of the european leaders are discussing in these very days. and the third point — we have to help italian companies, and we have to help them cutting taxes on energy.

otherwise, the italian companies�* competitiveness will be at risk. and i have to say, it is notjust for italy, also for the rest of europe. if one looks at the big three west european countries — france, germany, italy, inside the eu, italy could be on the threshold of becoming the first of them to embrace a far—right government. the stakes are high. do you think the italian people understand that? the italian people are wise, and i'm sure that they will understand. until now, maybe because we were in august and the electoral campaign just started, the awareness is not complete. this is why, i think, our chances are there, and we will keep fighting until the last day of the campaign to make italian people completely aware. if you lose, how worried

about the consequences are you? of course, it depends on the result, er... ..but i am confident that the country will understand in the next three weeks. and if we lose, of course, we will keep fighting from the opposition. enrico letta, i thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you. hello there. over the last few nights, mother nature has been putting on a pretty impressive display of thunder and lightning.

late in the day on wednesday, we had a number of storms move across northern england, and that was one of them late in the day in county durham. and recently, the storms have been forming thanks to this area of low pressure just to the south of the republic of ireland. we've had these trough features, these organised bands of showers being thrown in from the south and west, and for wednesday night, we had two clutches of storms — one affecting north wales, the north midlands, northern england. that really was the most active. but we also have another area of storms in the south—east as well. here's the weather picture over the next few hours. there will be a few more downpours coming and going, one or two mist and fog patches forming as well. perhaps some more persistent and heavier rain setting in across some central and eastern area of scotland, and these are the kind of temperatures you'll have to start the day heading into thursday. thursday is another day of sunshine and showers, broadly speaking, but i think we could see an area of persistent heavy rain affecting central and eastern areas of scotland and perhaps lasting through thursday into friday as well, bringing the risk of some localised flooding here, but otherwise, it's another day of showers. for many of you, there'll be quite a lot of showers,

so most of you will see at least one or two, perhaps more than that through the course of the day, and by the afternoon, some of them, again, will be turning thundery in nature. the area of low pressure driving this lot will continue to bring showery weather across all parts of the uk through friday. again, some hefty downpours, but notice there is that zone of heavier, more persistent rain affecting some central and eastern areas of scotland, with a heightened risk of seeing some localised flooding as those rainfall totals continue to build up during the course of the next couple of days. beyond that, we'll take a look at the weather pattern into the weekend. that area of low pressure finally clears out of the way — good, it's been with us all week. we get this ridge of high pressurejust for a time on saturday, but then we see more rain arriving from the west. so, saturday looks like a dry day for the vast majority. make the most of that because sunday sees a return of some heavy rain, particularly across western areas. now, one thing you might have noticed — i certainly have — recently is that it's been getting dark pretty quickly. at this time of the year, we're losing daylight at its fastest rate. that means in london, we're losing, well,

nearly four minutes of daylight each and every day, but it gets worse the further north you go. in lerwick, we're losing nearly five and half minutes each and every day. that's the latest.

this is bbc news. i'm victoria fritz with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. police in canada confirm a man suspected of killing ten people in a mass stabbing has died after being arrested. nearby, ems were called by police to attend the scene and he was transported to hospital in saskatoon. he was pronounced deceased at the hospital. potentially world changing, a new malaria vaccine offers 80% protection for two years in african trials. looking for the man in black. russian anti—war protesters try to find the police officer they say tortured them.

and stolen from the old world, being returned from the new.