hello. we are together today at a rare moment. a pause between two ages. caught between the future and the past. a steady force has faded, and what's coming next is yet to reveal itself in full. today, we'll hear from three former prime ministers for whom queen elizabeth was a trusted confidant — maybe even a friend. but as one era closes, another opens. a new king —

and don't forget, a new prime minister, too. change comes gradually... then suddenly, after all. fanfare. a fanfare. singing. a transfer. from queen to king, from mother to son. sadness and memory. even as we grieve, we give thanks for this most faithful life. the clamour stills. and a new sound comes. # god save our gracious king. # long live our noble king. the end of one era. cheering. the journey to the next begun. singing.

i have been speaking to david cameron, theresa may and gordon brown. and what was the view of the queen from across the pond? we will hear from jfk's daughter, now ambassador caroline kennedy, who played with the girls as a girl. in charles close friend and former conservative mp, alison phillips the editor of the daily mirror, and baroness amos, the diplomat and labour peer. welcome to you all. good morning. so much has changed in a week and there is so much to come. i want to show you straightaway what is happening at balmoral. in one hour, the coffin of the queen will make its way to edinburgh. ajourney that will be recorded and shown for

ever and we will bring that to you here on the bbc throughout the day with a special programme. just as the newspapers today are marking this moment it feels like one of those days when you want to buy one of those additions and maybe store it away for the rest of your life. let's look at some historic front pages. a beautiful image of the queen, her late majesty on the front of the sunday times, several of the newspapers, perhaps not surprisingly, picking out those surprise images yesterday of the next generation. harry and meghan appearing by surprise at windsor castle with the prince and princess of. extraordinary front pages. welcome to all of you. what stands out for you from the papers this morning? i out for you from the papers this mornin: ? ~ , out for you from the papers this mornin: ? ~' , ,., morning? i think the very powerful imaue of morning? i think the very powerful imagery of the _ morning? i think the very powerful imagery of the late _ morning? i think the very powerful imagery of the late queen, - morning? i think the very powerful imagery of the late queen, i - morning? i think the very powerful imagery of the late queen, i think| imagery of the late queen, i think the newspapers have carried the most wonderful portraits of her hurt us

in the last two days —— through her reign in the last two days. in the state address of the order of the thistle taken at balmoral against the highland background is a very moving picture and signifies her love of scotland, where she sadly died. they are very powerful images. and record such an extraordinary and longer life. alison phillips, what did you take away from this morning? so much to choose from.— so much to choose from. there really is that i thought _ so much to choose from. there really is that i thought the _ so much to choose from. there really is that i thought the picture _ so much to choose from. there really is that i thought the picture of - so much to choose from. there really is that i thought the picture of the - is that i thought the picture of the family— is that i thought the picture of the family coming out at the gates of balmoral— family coming out at the gates of balmoral was particularly poignant. in london_ balmoral was particularly poignant. in london there was a ceremony of the accession at the same time we have _ the accession at the same time we have to _ the accession at the same time we have to remember there is a family in grief _ have to remember there is a family in grief it— have to remember there is a family in grief it is— have to remember there is a family in grief. it is very personal and her granddaughters all moved to tiers, _ her granddaughters all moved to tiers, sophie wessex, who she had a very close _ tiers, sophie wessex, who she had a very close relationship with, look terribly _ very close relationship with, look terribly upset. it is all the

ceremony and the idea that the whole country— ceremony and the idea that the whole country really wants to join in this mourning — country really wants to join in this mourning. it is a very personal event — mourning. it is a very personal event. ., ,, ~ ., mourning. it is a very personal event. ., ., , event. baroness amos, what struck ou? event. baroness amos, what struck you? relate — event. baroness amos, what struck you? relate the _ event. baroness amos, what struck you? relate the crowds _ event. baroness amos, what struck you? relate the crowds really - event. baroness amos, what struck you? relate the crowds really the l you? relate the crowds really the crowds. i went _ you? relate the crowds really the crowds. i went to _ you? relate the crowds really the crowds. i went to buckingham - you? relate the crowds really the . crowds. i went to buckingham palace and people _ crowds. i went to buckingham palace and peorrle across _ crowds. i went to buckingham palace and people across the _ crowds. i went to buckingham palace and people across the world, - crowds. i went to buckingham palace and people across the world, acrossl and people across the world, across britain, _ and people across the world, across britain, the — and people across the world, across britain, the children. _ and people across the world, across britain, the children. it _ and people across the world, across britain, the children. it is _ and people across the world, across britain, the children. it is all- britain, the children. it is all about— britain, the children. it is all about continuity— britain, the children. it is all about continuity and - britain, the children. it is all| about continuity and change, britain, the children. it is all- about continuity and change, wanting to pay— about continuity and change, wanting to pay their_ about continuity and change, wanting to pay their respects _ about continuity and change, wanting to pay their respects to _ about continuity and change, wanting to pay their respects to the _ about continuity and change, wanting to pay their respects to the late - to pay their respects to the late queen— to pay their respects to the late queen hut_ to pay their respects to the late queen but also _ to pay their respects to the late queen but also wanting - to pay their respects to the late queen but also wanting to - to pay their respects to the late - queen but also wanting to welcome our new_ queen but also wanting to welcome our new king — queen but also wanting to welcome our new king and _ queen but also wanting to welcome our new king and there _ queen but also wanting to welcome our new king and there are - queen but also wanting to welcome our new king and there are some i our new king and there are some marvellous— our new king and there are some marvellous pictures _ our new king and there are some marvellous pictures in _ our new king and there are some marvellous pictures in the - marvellous pictures in the newspapers _ marvellous pictures in the newspapers. st _ marvellous pictures in the newspapers. st james's . marvellous pictures in the - newspapers. st james's palace, i marvellous pictures in the _ newspapers. st james's palace, i was there _ newspapers. stjames's palace, i was there for— newspapers. st james's palace, i was there for the _ newspapers. st james's palace, i was there for the accession _ newspapers. st james's palace, i was there for the accession council. - newspapers. stjames's palace, i was there for the accession council. i- there for the accession council. i saw people — there for the accession council. i saw people there, _ there for the accession council. i saw people there, as _ there for the accession council. i saw people there, as well. - there for the accession council. i. saw people there, as well. people 'ust saw people there, as well. people just materialised _ saw people there, as well. people just materialised out— saw people there, as well. people just materialised out of— saw people there, as well. people just materialised out of nowhere. i saw people there, as well. people i just materialised out of nowhere. it was so _ just materialised out of nowhere. it was so hard — just materialised out of nowhere. it was so hard to— just materialised out of nowhere. it was so hard to get— just materialised out of nowhere. it was so hard to get through. - just materialised out of nowhere. it was so hard to get through. but - just materialised out of nowhere. itj was so hard to get through. but the patients— was so hard to get through. but the patients that — was so hard to get through. but the patients that people _ was so hard to get through. but the patients that people were _ was so hard to get through. but the patients that people were showing, | was so hard to get through. but thel patients that people were showing, i think it _ patients that people were showing, i think it is _ patients that people were showing, i think it is extraordinary. _ patients that people were showing, i think it is extraordinary. [— patients that people were showing, i think it is extraordinary. [intras- think it is extraordinary. i was there yesterday _ think it is extraordinary. i was there yesterday and _ think it is extraordinary. i was there yesterday and the - think it is extraordinary. i was there yesterday and the mall| think it is extraordinary.“ there yesterday and the mall and it was packed. there were smiles with

the sadness and it felt as though people were genuine the coming together, from every background, every generation. that is so rare. one of the other striking things yesterday was the surprise appearance of harry and meghan alongside the prince and princess of is. i know you know the royal family well, they have had a terrible agony over their fractured relationship. what did you think when you saw those images? i what did you think when you saw those images?— those images? i thought it was a very powerful— those images? i thought it was a very powerful picture _ those images? i thought it was a very powerful picture and, - those images? i thought it was a very powerful picture and, as - those images? i thought it was a | very powerful picture and, as you said, grief in a family brings people together and i think it is worth remembering that the royal family... it is only 18 months ago that prince philip died and now the queen has died. they... i think they must be stricken with grief. alison is quite right, it was very touching to see the rest of the family outside. obviously deeply moved by the tribute. it is so striking in moments of grief how the human face

is —— the human face is so dignified. you looked at the crowds and there was this mixture of grief and there was this mixture of grief and being there together, the sense of being together. aha, and being there together, the sense of being together.— and being there together, the sense of being together. a corporate sense and also may — of being together. a corporate sense and also may be _ of being together. a corporate sense and also may be at _ of being together. a corporate sense and also may be at deliberate - of being together. a corporate sense and also may be at deliberate sense | and also may be at deliberate sense from the royals to show that unity yesterday where there has been such despair and unhappiness between the brothers? ~ ., ., ., brothers? whatever the reason for it all of us can — brothers? whatever the reason for it all of us can be _ brothers? whatever the reason for it all of us can be very _ brothers? whatever the reason for it all of us can be very pleased - brothers? whatever the reason for it all of us can be very pleased to - brothers? whatever the reason for it all of us can be very pleased to see i all of us can be very pleased to see it, and i thought the king in his address made very clear his great love and affection for prince harry and meghan and that was the outward and meghan and that was the outward and visible sign of that happening which is good news. the and visible sign of that happening which is good news.— which is good news. the difficult thin is which is good news. the difficult thing is this _ which is good news. the difficult thing is this is _ which is good news. the difficult thing is this is both _ which is good news. the difficult thing is this is both really - thing is this is both really personal— thing is this is both really personal and _ thing is this is both really personal and also- thing is this is both really personal and also public. | thing is this is both really. personal and also public. we thing is this is both really- personal and also public. we have all been _ personal and also public. we have all been through _ personal and also public. we have all been through these _ personal and also public. we have all been through these moments. personal and also public. we have - all been through these moments with our families, — all been through these moments with our families, where _ all been through these moments with our families, where we _ all been through these moments with our families, where we have - all been through these moments with

our families, where we have had - our families, where we have had tragic— our families, where we have had tragic loss. — our families, where we have had tragic loss, the _ our families, where we have had tragic loss, the pain, _ our families, where we have had tragic loss, the pain, the - our families, where we have had tragic loss, the pain, the grief, i tragic loss, the pain, the grief, and there — tragic loss, the pain, the grief, and there is— tragic loss, the pain, the grief, and there is a _ tragic loss, the pain, the grief, and there is a coming - tragic loss, the pain, the grief, | and there is a coming together, putting — and there is a coming together, putting aside _ and there is a coming together, putting aside differences - and there is a coming together, putting aside differences at - and there is a coming together, j putting aside differences at that moment— putting aside differences at that moment in— putting aside differences at that moment in time. _ putting aside differences at that moment in time. of— putting aside differences at that moment in time. of course - putting aside differences at that moment in time. of course we i putting aside differences at that i moment in time. of course we all hope _ moment in time. of course we all hope this— moment in time. of course we all hope this will— moment in time. of course we all hope this will continue _ moment in time. of course we all hope this will continue but - moment in time. of course we all hope this will continue but i- moment in time. of course we all hope this will continue but i think| hope this will continue but i think it was— hope this will continue but i think it was something _ hope this will continue but i think it was something we _ hope this will continue but i think it was something we were - hope this will continue but i think it was something we were all- hope this will continue but i think. it was something we were all very, very pleased — it was something we were all very, very pleased to _ it was something we were all very, very pleased to see _ it was something we were all very, very pleased to see yesterday. - very pleased to see yesterday. alison? — very pleased to see yesterday. alison? l— very pleased to see yesterday. alison? ~' ., .., ., alison? i think the word came from prince william, _ alison? i think the word came from prince william, the _ alison? i think the word came from prince william, the prince - alison? i think the word came from prince william, the prince of- alison? i think the word came from | prince william, the prince of wales, sorry, _ prince william, the prince of wales, sorry, that _ prince william, the prince of wales, sorry, that this was a show of unity and let's— sorry, that this was a show of unity and let's hope it is not done echo a show— and let's hope it is not done echo a show of— and let's hope it is not done echo a show of unity. a and let's hope it is not done echo a show of unity-— and let's hope it is not done echo a show of unity. a big gesture that we all witnessed _ show of unity. a big gesture that we all witnessed and _ show of unity. a big gesture that we all witnessed and it's _ show of unity. a big gesture that we all witnessed and it's delighted - show of unity. a big gesture that we all witnessed and it's delighted the l all witnessed and it's delighted the crowds to see them coming out together. shortly we will touch and other stories making the news this morning, as well, but with power transferred one of the most important relationships the king will have is with his prime minister. liz truss will be the first to undertake their weekly ritual of the audience with him, as it is properly known, and in the last couple of days i spent some time with three people who have done

the job. time with three people who have done thejob. three people who time with three people who have done the job. three people who were time with three people who have done thejob. three people who were in thejob. three people who were in the room yesterday when king charles formally took the throne. here are eight david cameron, theresa may and gordon brown on the kind of king that charles might be. well, it was a huge privilege to be there because this event has happened in one form or another since anglo—saxon times. so you felt you were part of an extraordinary historical event. everybody saw at the accession council all the former prime ministers, one of the most exclusive clubs in the world, having the odd whisper and word to each other. what were you talking about? well, the number of ex—prime ministers is growing. i said to boris, it's the club that no one wants to join and you never get to leave! but there's always a good sort of camaraderie amongst us. it's interesting because often they were your principal political opponent. i was up against tony blair and then gordon brown. and now when we meet at these things, it's much more talk about how are the children or grandchildren and sort of discussion of those sorts

of things, rather than anything more more profound. so that was mostly what the banter was about, i think, when we were chatting, and welcoming, in boris, our newest member. did he look happy to be welcomed to that club? well, he was looking happy. so i don't know if he was happy to join the club, but he was looking happy. of course, one of the great things of our constitution is as soon as one monarch passes, another monarch accedes to the throne. so it's that continuation of somebody who is there, who will get to know the issues, who will have experience. and, of course, king charles, as prince charles, has been, if you like, in waiting for this role. i had audiences with prince charles when queen elizabeth ii was stood when queen elizabeth ii was still

on the throne because he wanted to start thinking about how to conduct those audiences. and from what i saw, he will be brilliant at thatjob — brilliant at listening, brilliant at asking questions, giving wise advice and sage counsel. i mean, this has probably been the longest apprenticeship in history and he knows so much about so many subjects. and like his mother, he is a superb diplomat. i saw him in action at commonwealth heads of government meetings, and he knows every leader personally. he interacts with them brilliantly. the soft power that the british monarch brings to help a prime minister and a government with all those international relations, it was obviously outstanding under queen elizabeth i think you'll see that charles iii will be a very worthy successor in that regard. what's he like? i mean, your paths will have crossed. and, as you said yourself, he's somebody who has been in public life for many decades before acceeding the throne. what's he like? he's a very thoughtful individual,

but has his mother's sense of fun, as well. a nice person, and i think- you would enjoy meeting him and i think you would enjoyl meeting him and the queen consort, camilla. but obviously, this is a completely differentjob from being the heir. apparent and from being the prince of wales. - and i think quickly he'll understand that he has responsibilities - right across the world. well, the first thing i'd say is he's extremely intelligent and charming. my wife always said when we had to go to one of those banquets or dinners or big meetings, she always said, "i hope i'm sitting next to prince charles. he's the best person to sit next to. he's the most charming company. there's no—one who is better at putting you at your ease and a more charming companion to talk to." and that's her words. so he is immensely charming, he's highly intelligent. you know, while it is incredibly sad that we're mourning the loss

of our greatest monarch, i think the constitutional monarchy is in great hands. when he was still prince of wales, though, he did make representations on many different causes. did he ever write you any of those famous letters that he did as prince of wales, pushing for various of his issues? well, of course, and i had many. conversations with prince charles. you know, i do respect his views on the environment. _ he's been a leader in this. but i think what he was saying when he spoke to the countryl on friday was that he was going to set aside his charities - and his interests in favour- of concentrating 100% on the duties of the monarch. and i think that will involve a huge amount of travelling, _ and i think that will involve | travelling notjust in britain but across the world. and i think we've got to understand that that is a good thing _ for britain, that we have a monarch that is prepared to be _ outward—looking, prepared to speak to countries right across the world. i i never felt he tried to influence me improperly in any way.

i think that the heir to the throne has a perfect right to have an interest in issues like the environment, like preserving wildlife, like his interest in the built environment. in fact, many of the causes he took up back in the '60s and '70s might have looked rather fringe. he picked his subjects superbly, became an expert in things like climate change and the environment long before politicians were talking about them. and i think his pursuit of that was entirely justified. i think it's entirely right that the heir to the throne can discuss things with politicians and write them letters and all the rest of it. why not? and, in fact, i don't see why there should be any public concern about that. in fact, my view was that those letters should remain private. and do you think that the monarchy will need to adapt? i think what prince charles has already indicated - is that the monarchy. is going to be smaller. it's going to be more -

like a scandinavian monarchy in future, i think, but not in a had way _ in the sense that more informal. i think he stopped as he entered buckingham palace and talked . to people in the crowd, _ and that was a signal he was sending that he wanted people to feel - he was approachable and he was not going to be, you know, absent from the publicl or alternatively be unapproachable. if you look at the monarchy and the royal family, they have been steadily evolving a different approach, a different way of doing things over time. and i'm sure that king charles will take that, continue to take that forward. and, of course, he is a different person, and he may want to change things in some ways, but i think critically, as the queen did, any change in the way things are done would be done gradually and very carefully. and beyond that visibility, i suppose, in our communities, in our towns, villages and cities, what do you think the public,

i suppose, have the right to expect from the new king? well, i think they will expect that sense of continuity, but also that sense of recognising that the world is changing, has been changing, continues to change. and so a willingness to evolve alongside that. and i think what they will hope and what they will get is that deep interest in people which her majesty had. and king charles, i believe, has that too. a deep concern for people and wanting to understand people's interests, people's circumstances, different communities around the country, and translating that, actually, into the role that he has as a monarch. i think the most important thing they have a right to expect is service and duty.

that is what queen elizabeth ii absolutely personified. she was good to her word of what she said as a young princess, age 25, in south africa. "my life, be it long or short, will be dedicated to serving you." but it's more than that, because i think her brilliance was that it was notjust service and duty. it was a profound understanding of the role of the institution, of the history, but above all, a profound understanding of the british people, of the people she was giving that service and duty to. and i think it was because she had that understanding that she was so able to reign so brilliantly for so long and to adapt, often very subtly, to the needs of a changing country. service, duty and understanding — he's got all those things. we will hear more recollections of

the queen later in the programme. sir nicholas, what kind of king do you think charles will be? you are one of few people in the country who know him very well. i one of few people in the country who know him very well.— know him very well. i think is in an extraordinary _ know him very well. i think is in an extraordinary position _ know him very well. i think is in an extraordinary position because - know him very well. i think is in an| extraordinary position because he's kind of a link to the past and the future. i think david cameron put it very well, he has a profound understanding of people. the work of the prince's trust that he has done has helped over a million people. hundreds of thousands of people put into newjobs. i think his understanding of what goes on in the ground in this country is a great deal more thorough then people would even understand possibly, and his manner, his whole manner is sympathetic, understanding and empathy. i think we saw that with the crowd outside buckingham palace yesterday. it is the crowd outside buckingham palace esterda . , , yesterday. it is interesting, alison, that _ yesterday. it is interesting, alison, that he's _ yesterday. it is interesting, alison, that he's chosen . yesterday. it is interesting, - alison, that he's chosen already twice to go on a walkabout and speak to the crowds. the first time he

went back to buckingham palace straight out of the car to greet people. and yet he has over the years compared to his mother seemed more remote figure. whereas we know the queen was held in such affection. how do you think you will make that transition? we could see him outside clarence house smiling and joking and accepting condolence. i think this is interesting as well, of course, — i think this is interesting as well, of course, because his mother in her final decade — of course, because his mother in her final decade really was unable to do the foreign tours much and she wasn't — the foreign tours much and she wasn't able to go out and meet people — wasn't able to go out and meet people because she was into her 90s at that point. so we'll have a much younger— at that point. so we'll have a much younger monaco will be more engaged and out _ younger monaco will be more engaged and out there. we know he is incredible _ and out there. we know he is incredible at the tours he does. in terms _ incredible at the tours he does. in terms of— incredible at the tours he does. in terms of how he will reign, i thought— terms of how he will reign, i thought the speech on friday evening amazing, _ thought the speech on friday evening amazing, and he managed to take the whole _ amazing, and he managed to take the whole national conversation really from _ whole national conversation really from that — whole national conversation really from that point of mourning to being able to— from that point of mourning to being able to imagine him as our next king _ able to imagine him as our next king the— able to imagine him as our next king. the line he used about

endeavouring to serve with loyalty, respect _ endeavouring to serve with loyalty, respect and love, if you look at those _ respect and love, if you look at those words it's quite fascinating. it is respect he understands how different— it is respect he understands how different people are now, how society— different people are now, how society has changed and the emphasis on the _ society has changed and the emphasis on the individual. it is with respect _ on the individual. it is with respect for those and with love. i think— respect for those and with love. i think that — respect for those and with love. i think that is the key point. do you think that is the key point. do you think that is the key point. do you think that speech _ think that is the key point. do you think that speech might _ think that is the key point. do you think that speech might have - think that is the key point. do you | think that speech might have taken your readers a little bit by surprise?— your readers a little bit by surrise? , ~ , ., ,, surprise? yes, i think perhaps it has but in _ surprise? yes, i think perhaps it has but in a _ surprise? yes, i think perhaps it has but in a good _ surprise? yes, i think perhaps it has but in a good way. - surprise? yes, i think perhaps it has but in a good way. can - surprise? yes, i think perhaps it has but in a good way. can i - surprise? yes, i think perhaps it has but in a good way. can i add surprise? yes, i think perhaps it i has but in a good way. can i add to that? because _ has but in a good way. can i add to that? because there _ has but in a good way. can i add to that? because there is _ has but in a good way. can i add to that? because there is something | that? because there is something that? because there is something that we _ that? because there is something that we know— that? because there is something that we know he _ that? because there is something that we know he cares _ that? because there is something that we know he cares about - that? because there is something. that we know he cares about things, we know— that we know he cares about things, we know he — that we know he cares about things, we know he cares _ that we know he cares about things, we know he cares about _ that we know he cares about things, we know he cares about education. that we know he cares about things, i we know he cares about education. we know he _ we know he cares about education. we know he cares— we know he cares about education. we know he cares about _ we know he cares about education. we know he cares about the _ we know he cares about education. we know he cares about the environmentl know he cares about the environment and the _ know he cares about the environment and the impact— know he cares about the environment and the impact on— know he cares about the environment and the impact on the _ know he cares about the environment and the impact on the environment. and the impact on the environment for future _ and the impact on the environment for future generations. _ and the impact on the environment for future generations. we - and the impact on the environment for future generations. we know. and the impact on the environmentj for future generations. we know he cares _ for future generations. we know he cares about— for future generations. we know he cares about inequality _ for future generations. we know he cares about inequality and - for future generations. we know he cares about inequality and what - for future generations. we know hej cares about inequality and what will happen— cares about inequality and what will happen to _ cares about inequality and what will happen to our— cares about inequality and what will happen to our young _ cares about inequality and what will happen to our young people. - cares about inequality and what will happen to our young people. so- happen to our young people. so whilst _ happen to our young people. so whilst i — happen to our young people. so whilst i think— happen to our young people. so whilst i think the _ happen to our young people. so whilst i think the important- happen to our young people. sol whilst i think the important thing about— whilst i think the important thing about making _ whilst i think the important thing about making the _ whilst i think the important thing about making the transition - whilst i think the important thing about making the transition to i whilst i think the important thing i about making the transition to king and being _ about making the transition to king and being absolutely— about making the transition to king and being absolutely impartial, - about making the transition to king and being absolutely impartial, we| and being absolutely impartial, we already— and being absolutely impartial, we already know — and being absolutely impartial, we already know that _ and being absolutely impartial, we already know that he _ and being absolutely impartial, we already know that he has - and being absolutely impartial, we already know that he has those - already know that he has those passions — already know that he has those passions and _ already know that he has those passions and that _ already know that he has those passions and that he _ already know that he has those passions and that he will - already know that he has those passions and that he will bring | already know that he has those - passions and that he will bring that empathy—

passions and that he will bring that empathy to— passions and that he will bring that empathy to the _ passions and that he will bring that empathy to the way— passions and that he will bring that empathy to the way that _ passions and that he will bring that empathy to the way that he - passions and that he will bring that empathy to the way that he is - passions and that he will bring that| empathy to the way that he is king. it empathy to the way that he is king. it was _ empathy to the way that he is king. it was very— empathy to the way that he is king. it was very interesting _ empathy to the way that he is king. it was very interesting though, - empathy to the way that he is king. it was very interesting though, sir i it was very interesting though, sir nicholas, that he also in that speech very carefully drew a line in away under his time as prince of wales. he very clearly said my charities and causes will be for someone else take forward. his life will now be taken up with so many official duties like audiences with prime ministers. he's already had his first one with liz truss. how do you think he will make that transition? i you think he will make that transition?— you think he will make that transition? ~ . ~ transition? i think he will make the transition? i think he will make the transition with _ transition? i think he will make the transition with great _ transition? i think he will make the transition with great ease - transition? i think he will make the transition with great ease because | transition with great ease because he knows perfectly well what the rules are. he's had a long time at the feet of his mother, who after all was one of the greatest greens this country has ever had. he will have watched the way that she did it, and he knows exactly the constitutional propriety. so i think that while some of the issues that prince charles, the king had strong views unlike the environment are now

completely mainstream. they are no longer highly contentious. the duke of edinburgh used to speak very powerfully on the environment. but clearly he will never get involved in any form of political controversy. it in any form of political controversy.— in any form of political controversy. in any form of political controvers . ., , , , controversy. it was very interesting 'ust to see controversy. it was very interesting just to see him _ controversy. it was very interesting just to see him with _ controversy. it was very interesting just to see him with liz _ controversy. it was very interesting just to see him with liz truss - controversy. it was very interesting just to see him with liz truss at - just to see him with liz truss at that meeting, and there was more access for cameras, microphones were able to pick up some of their words, so do you think we are already seeing an evolution? i so do you think we are already seeing an evolution?— so do you think we are already seeing an evolution? i think we are. it is inevitable. _ seeing an evolution? i think we are. it is inevitable. this _ seeing an evolution? i think we are. it is inevitable. this is _ seeing an evolution? i think we are. it is inevitable. this is a _ seeing an evolution? i think we are. it is inevitable. this is a real - it is inevitable. this is a real transition from the old to the new, and each monarch presumably makes their own role within the monarchy but within the very strict conventions which have bound monarchs through all time now. band monarchs through all time now. and talk about evolution and change. now the queen consort, camilla, by the king's side. alison, how do you think the public will see her in

that role?— think the public will see her in that role? ~ ., , ., ., . that role? when it was announced earlier in the _ that role? when it was announced earlier in the year— that role? when it was announced earlier in the year that _ that role? when it was announced earlier in the year that she - that role? when it was announced earlier in the year that she was i earlier in the year that she was going _ earlier in the year that she was going to — earlier in the year that she was going to take the role... the queen made it very _ going to take the role... the queen made it very clear, _ going to take the role... the queen made it very clear, didn't _ going to take the role... the queen made it very clear, didn't she? - going to take the role... the queen| made it very clear, didn't she? yes, i think made it very clear, didn't she? yes, i think there — made it very clear, didn't she? yes, i think there was _ made it very clear, didn't she? yes, i think there was some _ made it very clear, didn't she? yes, i think there was some concern around — i think there was some concern around the _ i think there was some concern around the king, the prince of wales as he _ around the king, the prince of wales as he was— around the king, the prince of wales as he was then, how this might sit with the _ as he was then, how this might sit with the public but actually everybody really feels she has been an incredible support to him over the last— an incredible support to him over the last two decades since their marriage, — the last two decades since their marriage, and that she is at his side _ marriage, and that she is at his side whenever he travels. and i think— side whenever he travels. and i think there has been a general acceptance that things change, relationships change, and as long as he's happy_ relationships change, and as long as he's happy and he has the emotional support— he's happy and he has the emotional support to _ he's happy and he has the emotional support to do this extremely difficult _ support to do this extremely difficultjob, then support to do this extremely difficult job, then that's support to do this extremely difficultjob, then that's ok. one difficult 'ob, then that's ok. one the difficult job, then that's ok. one the thins difficult job, then that's ok. one the things he _ difficult job, then that's ok. one the things he cares _ difficultjob, then that's ok. que: the things he cares about the difficultjob, then that's ok. (me: the things he cares about the queen cared so much about is the commonwealth. there is discussion around about how this transfer might have an effect on countries considering their role in the commonwealth. we know, baroness amos, barbados has already become a republic, moves towards that in

jamaica, chatter in australia too that perhaps not right now but before too long, knowing the diplomacy and networks what do you think will happen? i diplomacy and networks what do you think will happen?— think will happen? i think there are a coule think will happen? i think there are a coople of — think will happen? i think there are a couple of things. _ think will happen? i think there are a couple of things. one _ think will happen? i think there are a couple of things. one is - think will happen? i think there are a couple of things. one is that - think will happen? i think there are a couple of things. one is that we i a couple of things. one is that we should _ a couple of things. one is that we should all— a couple of things. one is that we should all remember— a couple of things. one is that we should all remember that - a couple of things. one is that we should all remember that as - a couple of things. one is that we i should all remember that as prince of wales, _ should all remember that as prince of wales, king _ should all remember that as prince of wales, king charles _ should all remember that as prince of wales, king charles went - should all remember that as prince of wales, king charles went to - of wales, king charles went to barbados— of wales, king charles went to barbados when— of wales, king charles went to barbados when they _ of wales, king charles went to barbados when they made - of wales, king charles went to| barbados when they made that transition — barbados when they made that transition from _ barbados when they made that transition from the _ barbados when they made that transition from the queen - barbados when they made thati transition from the queen being barbados when they made that - transition from the queen being head of state _ transition from the queen being head of state to— transition from the queen being head of state to becoming _ transition from the queen being head of state to becoming a _ transition from the queen being head of state to becoming a republic. - transition from the queen being head of state to becoming a republic. my. of state to becoming a republic. my sense _ of state to becoming a republic. my sense is _ of state to becoming a republic. my sense is that — of state to becoming a republic. my sense is that he _ of state to becoming a republic. my sense is that he feels _ of state to becoming a republic. my sense is that he feels very- of state to becoming a republic. my sense is that he feels very strongly| sense is that he feels very strongly that this _ sense is that he feels very strongly that this is — sense is that he feels very strongly that this is a — sense is that he feels very strongly that this is a decision _ sense is that he feels very strongly that this is a decision for— sense is that he feels very strongly that this is a decision for the - that this is a decision for the people — that this is a decision for the people of— that this is a decision for the people of those _ that this is a decision for the people of those country- that this is a decision for the people of those country and | that this is a decision for the - people of those country and that the close relationships _ people of those country and that the close relationships we _ people of those country and that the close relationships we have - people of those country and that the close relationships we have with - close relationships we have with those _ close relationships we have with those countries _ close relationships we have with those countries as _ close relationships we have with those countries as a _ close relationships we have with those countries as a result - close relationships we have with those countries as a result of. close relationships we have with those countries as a result of a i those countries as a result of a shared — those countries as a result of a shared history— those countries as a result of a shared history and _ those countries as a result of a shared history and so - those countries as a result of a shared history and so on, - those countries as a result of a shared history and so on, thatl those countries as a result of a - shared history and so on, that those relationships— shared history and so on, that those relationships can _ shared history and so on, that those relationships can still _ shared history and so on, that those relationships can still continue - relationships can still continue even _ relationships can still continue even as— relationships can still continue even as those _ relationships can still continue even as those countries - relationships can still continue even as those countries make | relationships can still continue - even as those countries make those decisions _ even as those countries make those decisions about _ even as those countries make those decisions about who _ even as those countries make those decisions about who is _ even as those countries make those decisions about who is head - even as those countries make those decisions about who is head of- decisions about who is head of state — decisions about who is head of state i— decisions about who is head of state. ithink— decisions about who is head of state. i think we _ decisions about who is head of state. i think we have - decisions about who is head of state. i think we have to - decisions about who is head of state. i think we have to be i decisions about who is head of. state. i think we have to be very careful— state. i think we have to be very careful not — state. i think we have to be very careful not to _ state. i think we have to be very careful not to mix _ state. i think we have to be very careful not to mix up _ state. i think we have to be very careful not to mix up the - state. i think we have to be very. careful not to mix up the decisions that those — careful not to mix up the decisions that those countries _ careful not to mix up the decisions that those countries and _ careful not to mix up the decisions that those countries and the i careful not to mix up the decisionsi that those countries and the people of those _ that those countries and the people of those countries _ that those countries and the people of those countries have _ that those countries and the people of those countries have every- that those countries and the people of those countries have every rightl of those countries have every right to make _ of those countries have every right to make about _ of those countries have every right to make about what _ of those countries have every right to make about what our— of those countries have every right to make about what our future i to make about what our future relationship _ to make about what our future relationship is _ to make about what our future

relationship is in _ to make about what our future relationship is in terms - to make about what our future relationship is in terms of- relationship is in terms of commonwealth _ relationship is in terms of commonwealth countries| relationship is in terms of- commonwealth countries more relationship is in terms of— commonwealth countries more broadly but also _ commonwealth countries more broadly but also with _ commonwealth countries more broadly but also with the _ commonwealth countries more broadly but also with the rest _ commonwealth countries more broadly but also with the rest of— commonwealth countries more broadly but also with the rest of the _ commonwealth countries more broadly but also with the rest of the world. i but also with the rest of the world. you know. — but also with the rest of the world. you know. our— but also with the rest of the world. you know, our previous _ but also with the rest of the world. you know, our previous prime i you know, our previous prime ministers— you know, our previous prime ministers talked _ you know, our previous prime ministers talked about - you know, our previous prime ministers talked about the i you know, our previous prime i ministers talked about the important role the _ ministers talked about the important role the queen— ministers talked about the important role the queen played _ ministers talked about the important role the queen played in— ministers talked about the important role the queen played in terms- ministers talked about the important role the queen played in terms of. role the queen played in terms of diplomacy — role the queen played in terms of diplomacy i— role the queen played in terms of diplomacy. i think— role the queen played in terms of diplomacy. i think we _ role the queen played in terms of diplomacy. i think we will- role the queen played in terms of diplomacy. i think we will see i role the queen played in terms of diplomacy. i think we will see the j diplomacy. i think we will see the same _ diplomacy. i think we will see the same in _ diplomacy. i think we will see the same in king _ diplomacy. i think we will see the same in king charles. _ diplomacy. i think we will see the same in king charles. we- diplomacy. i think we will see the same in king charles.— diplomacy. i think we will see the same in king charles. we will talk about that later. _ same in king charles. we will talk about that later. there _ same in king charles. we will talk about that later. there are i same in king charles. we will talk about that later. there are also i about that later. there are also other hugely important thing is happening in this country at the moment. we willjust briefly touch on them. alison, had this sad event not taken place, we would have been talking endlessly about the huge government intervention in the energy market to help people pay their bills through the winter. we can have a look at how the sunday times is covering that this morning. we know people have been desperately worried about what the next few months might bring. do you think the government intervention will solve that? i government intervention will solve that? “ government intervention will solve that? ., , , that? i think certainly this time last week. _ that? i think certainly this time last week, that _ that? i think certainly this time last week, that was _ that? i think certainly this time last week, that was the i that? i think certainly this time last week, that was the only i that? i think certainly this time i last week, that was the only thing people _ last week, that was the only thing

people were talking about. obviously perhaps _ people were talking about. obviously perhaps £100 billion has been spent this week— perhaps £100 billion has been spent this week and it has barely got a line in— this week and it has barely got a line in the — this week and it has barely got a line in the papers this weekend. i think— line in the papers this weekend. i think what— line in the papers this weekend. i think what we have to remember is that when— think what we have to remember is that when this period of mourning is gone, _ that when this period of mourning is gone, the _ that when this period of mourning is gone, the anxiety in people's lives about— gone, the anxiety in people's lives about how— gone, the anxiety in people's lives about how they will pay the bills is reduced. _ about how they will pay the bills is reduced, so that is there. how it has been — reduced, so that is there. how it has been done is the point for debate, — has been done is the point for debate, that the prime minister has refused _ debate, that the prime minister has refused any form of windfall tax so we still _ refused any form of windfall tax so we still have vast profits being made — we still have vast profits being made by— we still have vast profits being made by the energy companies whereas actually— made by the energy companies whereas actually now that this money will sit in _ actually now that this money will sit in the — actually now that this money will sit in the national debt which will have _ sit in the national debt which will have to _ sit in the national debt which will have to be — sit in the national debt which will have to be paid back at some point. but at _ have to be paid back at some point. but at least — have to be paid back at some point. but at least the initial anxiety has been _ but at least the initial anxiety has been taken away. fits but at least the initial anxiety has been taken away.— but at least the initial anxiety has been taken away. as a conservative former mp. — been taken away. as a conservative former mp. how— been taken away. as a conservative former mp, how do _ been taken away. as a conservative former mp, how do you _ been taken away. as a conservative former mp, how do you feel- been taken away. as a conservative former mp, how do you feel about i been taken away. as a conservative i former mp, how do you feel about the massive scale of state intervention, sir nicholas? i massive scale of state intervention, sir nicholas?— sir nicholas? i feel that it was inevitable _ sir nicholas? i feel that it was inevitable given _ sir nicholas? i feel that it was inevitable given the _ sir nicholas? i feel that it was i inevitable given the circumstances. i don't think there was any other way of doing it. i think people's fears were entirelyjustified. the scale of the gas intervention

because of the russian war in ukraine rendered it absolutely essential the government step in. and i think they stepped in very boldly. i agree entirely with alison. of course, the big question that remains is how and when this starts being paid back and we are further loading onto future generations considerable debt, and it will have to be repaid. the natural tory instinct is not to be so pro it but there was nothing else to do. i so pro it but there was nothing else to do. ~ :, , :, to do. i know in the studio we will be talkin: to do. i know in the studio we will be talking about _ to do. i know in the studio we will be talking about that _ to do. i know in the studio we will be talking about that a _ to do. i know in the studio we will be talking about that a lot i to do. i know in the studio we will be talking about that a lot in i to do. i know in the studio we will be talking about that a lot in the i be talking about that a lot in the weeks and months to come, but you mentioned there what has been happening in ukraine. baroness amos, away from the coverage of the monarchy, russian troops appear to have abandoned some key towns. it seems the ukrainians are making a lot of progress. we heard last week from the first lady of ukraine that everybody was pinning their hopes on an advance under turning point. do you think we might be seeing that? i

you think we might be seeing that? i think we all hope so but we don't know _ think we all hope so but we don't know there _ think we all hope so but we don't know. there have _ think we all hope so but we don't know. there have been - think we all hope so but we don't know. there have been various. think we all hope so but we don't- know. there have been various points when _ know. there have been various points when we _ know. there have been various points when we all— know. there have been various points when we all thought _ know. there have been various points when we all thought there _ know. there have been various points when we all thought there will - know. there have been various points when we all thought there will be i when we all thought there will be some _ when we all thought there will be some kind — when we all thought there will be some kind of— when we all thought there will be some kind of peace _ when we all thought there will be some kind of peace deal- when we all thought there will be some kind of peace deal done i when we all thought there will be some kind of peace deal done or| when we all thought there will be i some kind of peace deal done or we could _ some kind of peace deal done or we could move — some kind of peace deal done or we could move forward _ some kind of peace deal done or we could move forward in _ some kind of peace deal done or we could move forward in some - some kind of peace deal done or we| could move forward in some positive way. could move forward in some positive way we _ could move forward in some positive way we are — could move forward in some positive way we are not _ could move forward in some positive way. we are not getting _ could move forward in some positive way. we are not getting any- could move forward in some positive way. we are not getting any kind i could move forward in some positive way. we are not getting any kind ofi way. we are not getting any kind of sense _ way. we are not getting any kind of sense from — way. we are not getting any kind of sense from russia _ way. we are not getting any kind of sense from russia that _ way. we are not getting any kind of sense from russia that they - way. we are not getting any kind of sense from russia that they are i way. we are not getting any kind of sense from russia that they are ati sense from russia that they are at that point— sense from russia that they are at that point where _ sense from russia that they are at that point where they _ sense from russia that they are at that point where they want - sense from russia that they are at that point where they want to i that point where they want to negotiate. _ that point where they want to negotiate, and _ that point where they want to negotiate, and that _ that point where they want to negotiate, and that is- that point where they want to negotiate, and that is my- that point where they want to negotiate, and that is my big| that point where they want to i negotiate, and that is my big worry. isaw— negotiate, and that is my big worry. i saw the _ negotiate, and that is my big worry. i saw the first — negotiate, and that is my big worry. i saw the first stage _ negotiate, and that is my big worry. i saw the first stage of _ negotiate, and that is my big worry. i saw the first stage of this - negotiate, and that is my big worry. i saw the first stage of this when i. i saw the first stage of this when i worked _ i saw the first stage of this when i worked at — i saw the first stage of this when i worked at the _ i saw the first stage of this when i worked at the united _ i saw the first stage of this when i worked at the united nations, i i saw the first stage of this when i| worked at the united nations, and without— worked at the united nations, and without all— worked at the united nations, and without all of _ worked at the united nations, and without all of the _ worked at the united nations, and without all of the countries - without all of the countries involved _ without all of the countries involved wanting _ without all of the countries involved wanting to - without all of the countries involved wanting to come i without all of the countries - involved wanting to come together and wanting — involved wanting to come together and wanting to _ involved wanting to come together and wanting to secure _ involved wanting to come together and wanting to secure some i involved wanting to come together and wanting to secure some kind l involved wanting to come togetherl and wanting to secure some kind of settlement, — and wanting to secure some kind of settlement, this _ and wanting to secure some kind of settlement, this terrible, _ and wanting to secure some kind of settlement, this terrible, terrible i settlement, this terrible, terrible war will— settlement, this terrible, terrible war will continue. _ settlement, this terrible, terrible war will continue. but _ settlement, this terrible, terrible war will continue. but it- settlement, this terrible, terrible war will continue. but it is- settlement, this terrible, terrible war will continue. but it is reallyi war will continue. but it is really important — war will continue. but it is really important ukrainians— war will continue. but it is really important ukrainians have i war will continue. but it is reallyj important ukrainians have made war will continue. but it is really- important ukrainians have made key strategic— important ukrainians have made key strategic advances— important ukrainians have made key strategic advances here. _ important ukrainians have made key strategic advances here. they i important ukrainians have made key strategic advances here. they have i strategic advances here. they have managed _ strategic advances here. they have managed to— strategic advances here. they have managed to cut _ strategic advances here. they have managed to cut off— strategic advances here. they have managed to cut off some _ strategic advances here. they have managed to cut off some of - strategic advances here. they have managed to cut off some of the i managed to cut off some of the supply— managed to cut off some of the supply lines _ managed to cut off some of the supply lines to _ managed to cut off some of the supply lines to the _ managed to cut off some of the supply lines to the russian i managed to cut off some of the i supply lines to the russian forces, so this— supply lines to the russian forces, so this may— supply lines to the russian forces, so this may force _ supply lines to the russian forces, so this may force the _ supply lines to the russian forces, so this may force the russians i supply lines to the russian forces, so this may force the russians to i so this may force the russians to rethink — so this may force the russians to rethink. ~ .., , so this may force the russians to rethink. ~ , , rethink. we can see some very owerful rethink. we can see some very powerful images _ rethink. we can see some very powerful images of _ rethink. we can see some very powerful images of one i rethink. we can see some very powerful images of one of i rethink. we can see some very powerful images of one of the | rethink. we can see some very i powerful images of one of the towns that has been taken back, one of the places that has been liberated. we

have seen some amazing video of people coming out of their houses, greeting the ukrainian soldiers. it greeting the ukrainian soldiers. it does feel like an amazing step forward — does feel like an amazing step forward. since we saw the russian abandonment of kyiv fairly soon... this feels— abandonment of kyiv fairly soon... this feels like the biggest turning point _ this feels like the biggest turning point we — this feels like the biggest turning point we have had in the north—east of the _ point we have had in the north—east of the country. but that was largely because _ of the country. but that was largely because the russians have moved their troops further south. while this is— their troops further south. while this is wonderful and we are all looking — this is wonderful and we are all looking for green shoots in the war, we have _ looking for green shoots in the war, we have to — looking for green shoots in the war, we have to be mindful russians are still occupying 20% of ukraine and this will— still occupying 20% of ukraine and this will continue to be a long and bloody— this will continue to be a long and bloody war. this will continue to be a long and bloody war-— this will continue to be a long and blood war. : �* , :, :, bloody war. and let's not forget the human impact _ bloody war. and let's not forget the human impact of— bloody war. and let's not forget the human impact of this. _ bloody war. and let's not forget the human impact of this. i _ bloody war. and let's not forget the human impact of this. i have i bloody war. and let's not forget the human impact of this. i have seen i human impact of this. i have seen this in— human impact of this. i have seen this in many— human impact of this. i have seen this in many situations _ human impact of this. i have seen this in many situations time i human impact of this. i have seen this in many situations time and l this in many situations time and time _ this in many situations time and time again. _ this in many situations time and time again. and— this in many situations time and time again, and it _ this in many situations time and time again, and it is _ this in many situations time and time again, and it is absolutelyl time again, and it is absolutely dreadful — time again, and it is absolutely dreadful. the _ time again, and it is absolutely dreadful. the impact _ time again, and it is absolutely dreadful. the impact on - time again, and it is absolutely. dreadful. the impact on women, children— dreadful. the impact on women, children and _ dreadful. the impact on women, children and families. _ dreadful. the impact on women, children and families. it - dreadful. the impact on women, children and families. it is- dreadful. the impact on women, i children and families. it is people at the _ children and families. it is people at the heart — children and families. it is people at the heart of _ children and families. it is people at the heart of this. _ children and families. it is people at the heart of this.— children and families. it is people at the heart of this. thank you. we will be back— at the heart of this. thank you. we will be back with _ at the heart of this. thank you. we will be back with you _ at the heart of this. thank you. we will be back with you later - at the heart of this. thank you. we will be back with you later on, i at the heart of this. thank you. we will be back with you later on, and | will be back with you later on, and we will hear too from the three

prime ministers with some of their memories about their times with the late queen. david cameron said her late queen. david cameron said her late majesty had been the world's greatest diplomat and we can see how her death is being marked right around the world. here we can see the sydney opera house lit up in tributes, the brandenburg gate in berlin, the new york skyline, ottawa in canada and the remarkable monument that overlooks rio in brazil. many cities around the world have been especially lit in her memory. her majesty's diplomacy was both powerful in public but also personal. no more so may then for the kennedy family. the young american president and his wife jackie came to meet the queen in 1961, but after his death in britain granted an acre of land at runnymede where the magna carta were assigned to the us as a permanent memorial to john f kennedy. at the ceremony was a seven—year—old caroline kennedy,

his daughter. now the united states ambassador to australia. i have been speaking to her about what she remembers from that unique event. i think for americans, the queen has been a constant presence in our lives. we feel very connected to britain and, of course, to the royal family, having watched them over so many years. and with the knowledge that our alliance goes back so far and is the most enduring and partnership — we share values, and certainly the queen embodied those values. her commitment to democracy, her sense of obligation, her steadfastness, her warmth. and what did she mean to you and your family with their various meetings and connections over the years? well, my grandfather was ambassador to the court of st james' when her father was king, and so my parents�* generation, my aunts and uncles, my father, all spent time in london before

the war and studied that period of british history. my father was such an admirer of england and had so many close relationships there. and certainly the service in the war that the queen performed, that my father and his sister and brother, it made them all part of the same generation. and in 1965, the queen dedicated a memorial here in the uk to your father. you were there with your mother and your brother at the ceremony. can you tell us a bit about what you remember? this memorial is an acre of land at runnymede, which is where the magna carta was signed, obviously. but i think that it really represented the foundation of democracy. and so for the queen, for the british people to donate that in memory of president kennedy and ourjoint commitment

to democracy, to freedom, to a constitutional government was something that was so significant, so unprecedented. the british government of that day resolved to establish here a memorial to be at runnymede for centuries to come. presented to her majesty were persons closely connected with the memorial appeal. the little kennedy children took every eye. what are your memories of the tribute? well, i was just seven, so i do remember that we were taken to windsor castle for lunch before we went to runnymede, and it was me and my brother and my little cousins. and so i do remember that we...that the grown—ups had a more formal lunch, but we were able to have running races in the hallway to keep us busy while they went to the formal ceremony!

but suddenly it was something that i was aware was incredibly meaningful to my mother, especially, and it was a very solemn sort of moment. and i think i... i remember it in a way that i don't remember kind of my father's funeral, but it was something that all my aunts and uncles i think deeply, deeply appreciated. and do you remember, was it king charles in the running races or princess anne or andrew? amazingly enough, i can't remember that. and what do you think that all meant to your mother? did she treasure those memories? throughout her life, she had these very special programmes printed. this is the one i have that was mine of the occasion, which is inscribed by my mother. it says, "to caroline, who came to runnymede

when she was seven years old," and it has the programme and then it has all the remarks, including her majesty's speech, as well as other dignitaries, both british and american. so i think it was always...these were always the most treasured things in our house. and so it was nice to be able to see them again today. and that amazing state visit, those amazingly glamourous images when your parents came to the uk in 1961, what do you think that was like for them? it was part of that trip to europe — paris, vienna, where my father met khrushchev — and then they came to to london, where my aunt and uncle were living and my cousin has just born so there was a christening. so again, it was a combination of family and official moments on that trip, but i think obviously the most

important or exciting was the visit to buckingham palace. and my mother was a great scrapbook and a great archivist and collector of memory, and so she has this scrapbook of her time. one for each of us. and so in it the pages are yellow and they're falling out, but there's this picture of them at the state visit. and i think they had a wonderful time. now, you've served as an ambassador to japan and now australia. how would you describe the queen's role as a diplomat? she obviously was an incredibly skilled diplomat and leader and a constant presence that was able to provide continuity in terms of these issues over time, and i think people really looked to her for a sense of what was right and where things were headed, and to sometimes make more gentle

the political conflicts of the time. ambassador caroline kennedy, thanks so much for speaking to us. a thanks so much for speaking to us. peak injackie i scrapbooks. a peak injackie kennedy at�*s scrapbooks. amazing to hear about her personal experiences but also, baroness amos, a focus on the queen as a diplomat. you are a diplomat and have been in the presence of her late majesty on many occasions. what difference did it make? her experience _ difference did it make? her experience and _ difference did it make? her experience and the - difference did it make? h9 experience and the things she had seen it made an enormous difference and i certainly know not only from my conversations with her but my conversations with others, that she gave leaders around the world the confidence to do things that sometimes they thought they would not get through because they were so hard. because she was able to give them a little gentle advice. they knew this would not become public in any way. and people listened to her

and it wasn'tjust any way. and people listened to her and it wasn't just a any way. and people listened to her and it wasn'tjust a heads of any way. and people listened to her and it wasn't just a heads of the commonwealth, it is heads from countries across the world. so that experience that she had, that light touch, that abilityjust experience that she had, that light touch, that ability just to give experience that she had, that light touch, that abilityjust to give a little nudge was extraordinarily helpful for them little nudge was extraordinarily helpfulfor them but little nudge was extraordinarily helpful for them but also for us in terms of the relationship between britain and other countries. flan terms of the relationship between britain and other countries. can you cive us an britain and other countries. can you give us an example _ britain and other countries. can you give us an example of _ britain and other countries. can you give us an example of other- britain and other countries. can you give us an example of other things i give us an example of other things that might not have happened were it not for that little nudge? i that might not have happened were it not for that little nudge?— not for that little nudge? i don't think that would _ not for that little nudge? i don't think that would be _ not for that little nudge? i don't think that would be fair. i not for that little nudge? i don't think that would be fair. don't i think that would be fair. don't divulue think that would be fair. don't divulge any — think that would be fair. don't divulge any confidence - think that would be fair. don't divulge any confidence if - think that would be fair. don't divulge any confidence if you | think that would be fair. don't divulge any confidence if you don't feel you can do what you have given a sense of how crucial her role sometimes was but also she was a true diplomatic celebrity. i remember in the g7 summits in cornwall last year, president macron, angela merkel, these world leaders are trampling over each other in order to be pictured next to the queen, who made them all laugh, put them at their ease. do you think king charles will have that same kind of star power? i

think you well. he is already in his own right and accomplished diplomat —— | own right and accomplished diplomat —— i think he will. the amount of travelling, the people he has met, he built relationships, these relationships are sometimes not possible for the government to have closely. there are several very senior figures around the world who have a very strong personal relationship with the king and i think that will now be developed and i think, as our life goes on and, you know, in the years to come, as we rebuild our british foreign policy after brexit, i think he will have a very, important role to play bringing people together. one thing thatis bringing people together. one thing that is absolutely unique about the king is that he is the first one, the first prince of wales and the first to ever use this astonishing convening power of being able to get

people together. he has that in spades, an extraordinary ability. people will come, they always came when he was prince of wales and they will now he is king.— will now he is king. diplomacy is about trust- _ will now he is king. diplomacy is about trust. and _ will now he is king. diplomacy is about trust. and the _ will now he is king. diplomacy is about trust. and the queen - will now he is king. diplomacy is about trust. and the queen had | will now he is king. diplomacy is| about trust. and the queen had it and king — about trust. and the queen had it and king charles _ about trust. and the queen had it and king charles has _ about trust. and the queen had it and king charles has it— about trust. and the queen had it and king charles has it precisely. and king charles has it precisely because — and king charles has it precisely because of— and king charles has it precisely because of those _ and king charles has it precisely because of those relationships i and king charles has it precisely. because of those relationships you talked _ because of those relationships you talked about _ because of those relationships you talked about.— because of those relationships you talked about. people who certainly trusted her— talked about. people who certainly trusted her late _ talked about. people who certainly trusted her late majesty, - talked about. people who certainly trusted her late majesty, and - talked about. people who certainly trusted her late majesty, and the. trusted her late majesty, and the person will have to build a relationship with the king is the prime minister. the ceremony of the next week has been so carefully choreographed. at 10am today the coffin of her late majesty will be taken from balmoral and the bbc has a special programme to cover that journey. let's show you as preparations are being made. it sounds like a real hush at the gates, piles and piles of flowers at the gates. balmoral was so important to the queen and the royal family, a

symbol of their connection to scotland and the place where she spent time notjust scotland and the place where she spent time not just with friends and family but with her prime ministers over the years. david cameron, gordon brown and theresa may have shared some of their memories of those trips and the reflections of the monarch they knew so well. well, the first thing was that it was just the most extraordinary privilege to spend an hour every week with, you know, really the world's greatest public servant — someone who's been on the throne for so long, who had so much experience, who'd met every world leader, who's travelled to every country. and i was her 12th prime minister. so, as you explained why the economy wasn't growing or this bit of public service wasn't working, you thought to yourself, she's literally heard all this before — she's heard every excuse in the book! but it was an immense privilege. and what you found was, not only was she a great listener, but also sage counsel and advice and brilliant questions. and what you found — i found — at the end of the hour, you would walk out of that room — there's no—one there taking notes,

there's no—one else with you... the world's problems hadn't changed, your problems hadn't changed, but you felt you were better—equipped to deal with them. it turns into a conversation. it's not a sort of debriefing. it is a conversation about issues. because the queen does her homework — did her homework. she would read her red boxes, she would read government papers, she would know what was going on. and, of course, she had tremendous experience of issues and of people. did she ever lead you to change your mind — wittingly or unwittingly? well, i can't reveal any particular conversations, but i think the great thing is, yes, that, coming from a slightly different angle, from a slightly different perspective can make you think... "i haven't sort of looked at that quite as closely as maybe i need to." and what's the best advice she ever gave you? well, everything you say to her and everything she says to you is obviously private.

but i think she was a believer that, in order to make good decisions, you have to try and make sure your life is in good equilibrium, that yourfamily are happy, that your home life is stable, that you get some sleep from time to time, that you're ready to face the next challenges. i never had any advice — . and she wouldn't give that, but she would listen, - she would ask questions. she would be endlessly knowledgeable about everything happening _ in the commonwealth. i was very embarrassed one day - because i went in to see her at 6:00 and i didn't know that one - of the commonwealth leaders had been ousted and that _ a new government had been formed. and she was telling me - what was happening when i was supposed to report to her! and even on british affairs — - you know, i'd been in the house of commons all afternoon in endless debates or cabinet meetings - or something, and she, i think, had been watching television, l she was getting notes from her secretaries, | and she actually knew better about what was happening . to the country than i was.

it was quite embarrassing, but itjust showed how- conscientious she was, i how well up on the detail. and i think right to the last. and you could see that| in the meeting she had with liz truss when she became . prime minister, and borisjohnson | when she left, that she fulfilled | her duties right up until the end. but she listened and| she asked questions. and i remember famously she asked, you know, - "why have these bankers got it all wrong?" _ in 2008. but she would never impose her will. and this is the modern monarchy. and i think she set the tone for what king charles - and other monarchs will do. did she ever change your mind? i think in...the commonwealth, yes. i mean, she was so supportive of the commonwealth. - of the commonwealth. one of her great friends - and probably the two greatest i leaders at the time were herself. and nelson mandela, and they had a great relationship. and i knew mandela well, and he used to tell me . these stories, you know, - when he talked to the queen, and phoned her up from from south africa, you know, - we would have said, "your majesty, ma'am, how are you?" _ he said, "hello, elizabeth,

how's the duke?" - i mean, these were the words he actually used. _ to you, how important was it to have a monarch who was a woman through the 20th century and into the 21st? at a time when a woman was not expected to be in a leadership role, i think it was hugely important. i was asked a little while ago why it was that the united kingdom had had — at that stage — two female prime ministers, now a third. and i said, "i'm not sure what it is about the uk, except perhaps that we have had a woman on the throne for so many years, so people don't have any

hang—ups about a woman being in that leadership position." it's said that part of her sense of humour was sometimes to do impersonations. i've read that sometimes she impersonated you. did she ever do that in front of you? is that true? is that scurrilous? never in front of me. but i think a scottish accent's not too difficult, not too difficult to do. and i was with rory bremner last week, and we were saying that, you know, it's so easy to impersonate a scottish accent. so i don't know how well she did it, but i'm sure it was probably making me sound dour and...| don't know. now, at one point you had to apologise to the queen for telling — i think it was michael bloomberg — who said she had purred down the phone when you told her the result of the scottish independence referendum. what was it like having to apologise to the queen? well, it was a very upfront and very fulsome apology, done very quickly at the beginning of an audience. and i think that's all i should say.

but from ever onwards, i've been more careful when cameras and microphones are around and i learnt my lesson! did she tell you off? um, obviously, everything said those meetings is entirely private. she also, for prime ministers, traditionally would invite you and yourfamilies also to balmoral. and what was that like? she made you completely at home. and there was a barbecue she organised for everybody on the saturday night, and she would actually drive you to this barbecue — which was miles away — and you had to go through different estates, open and close gates and everything. and she was in the driving seat, she was actually at the wheel. and i was sitting next to sarah, who was behind her. and i think at that stage it was the moderator of the church of scotland. so we were all in this car and she was driving. and then we arrived at this small place for the barbecue and there was prince philip, and he was doing the cooking. and she started setting the table and providing the plates. i remember going for a walk

with samantha and getting completely lost, and this car turns up and the duke of edinburgh winds down the window and goes, "prime minister, you're completely lost, aren't you?" and i had to say, yes, i was. but going up from balmoral into the...up into where the queen and prince philip would cook and make you dinner. he did the barbecue and she laid the table — and i'm not making this up — and served the food and cleared the plates. and seeing her in that very informal setting and talking about everything in life and politics and beyond, that's a sort of unforgettable memory and a huge privilege. it was one of the picnics which was taking place in one of the bothies in the balmoral estate. and the hampers of food had come from the castle. and we were all — everybody was mucking in, all the guests were mucking in with the royal family to put the food on the table. and i picked up some cheese, i put it on the plate, and i went to transfer it to the table and the cheese fell on the floor.

so i had a split—second decision... and i picked up the cheese and i put it on the plate and i put it on the table. and then i looked around and realised that, standing there, watching my every move was her majesty the queen. and i looked at her. and she looked at me. and she just smiled. so the queen perhaps was a believer in the 30—second rule. i think maybe she was, yes! she met my sons for the first time, and they were very- young at this time. and it was just after lunch _ and we came out into the courtyard, and all her corgis came out with her. _ and suddenly the first words my children heard from the queen, | talking to her corgis, was, "shut up!" - and they couldn't believe this! amazement! and every time, of course, - we upbraided them in the next few months and said, | "you've got to behave yourself," they said, _ "even the queen says 'shut up' — we can say that, too!" and that just showed how human - and what a wonderful person she was. and she was so keen to make

people feel at home. - and she could have acted as if she was above us, . but actually she was alongside us. and i think that's whati the british people feel. i have to say, i have interviewed all three of those politicians quite all three of those politicians quite a few times. i have never seen them light up like that with those very personal memories. today of course is a sombre day, and in a few minutes on bbc one we will see the beginning of thejourney minutes on bbc one we will see the beginning of the journey is the queen's coffin leaves belle moral. sir nicholas, what will your abiding memory of her late majesty be? her memory of her late ma'esty be? her race, her memory of her late majesty be? he: grace, herwarmth, and memory of her late majesty be? h9 grace, herwarmth, and i memory of her late majesty be? h9: grace, herwarmth, and i am inexpressibly proud that i had the honour to know herjust a little bit. but you were never her aura, you were never in any doubt that you were in the presence of the sovereign. and yet she managed to maintain this extraordinary

familiarity with her people and understanding of them and they of her, but without forever one moment surrendering the mystique of monarchy. surrendering the mystique of monarchy-— surrendering the mystique of monarch . : , :, monarchy. and she loved your grandfather. _ monarchy. and she loved your grandfather, winston - monarchy. and she loved your| grandfather, winston churchill, monarchy. and she loved your - grandfather, winston churchill, too. he loved her. he had known her since she was a child and he loved her very much indeed. he revered her. thank you so much for sharing your recollections. it is a very difficult few days actually for you as a personal friend difficult few days actually for you as a personalfriend of difficult few days actually for you as a personal friend of the difficult few days actually for you as a personalfriend of the royal family. thank you to all three of you. as ourtime family. thank you to all three of you. as our time today comes to a close, ifeel, perhaps you. as our time today comes to a close, i feel, perhaps you you. as our time today comes to a close, ifeel, perhaps you feel too, that we understand now a bit more about one of the thread that ties our unwritten constitution is a real life because we have heard from three people who lived in number ten who have shared a bit of how the private conversations they had at the palace helped them, challenged them too, as they made the decisions

that affect us all. we have heard their hopes for how the monarchy will endure and evolve. in a moment we will take you to balmoral where her coffin will start its long, last journey. but there will still be a moment for something different, maybe something unashamedly beautiful, so this morning we will close with music from the violinist tamzin whaley: who played for the queen at the age ofjust eight and shared her talent with king charles too. —— tamsin waley—cohen.

thank you to tamsin for playing a stunning piece of music from hundreds of years ago for this day of history, and thank you to our guests this morning. thank you also to you for being with us. you can as always catch up with anything on the iplayer. perhaps those reflections from three of the queen's prime ministers that will be their too. i will see you next week but now we will see you next week but now we willjoinjane hill for coverage of will join jane hill for coverage of queen willjoinjane hill for coverage of queen elizabeth's finaljourney. welcome to this bbc news special, where we are bringing you continuing coverage of a poignant day. the hearse bearing the queen's coffin is due to leave balmoral within the next few moments to make the journey to the palace of holyroodhouse in edinburgh.

with my guests, i'll be guiding you through the day, and we expect thousands of people to come out along many parts of the route to pay their respects. my colleague annita mcveigh is in balmoral. and we all wait to find out what our own individual emotions will be at that moment, at the moment we see the coffin driven out of the gates of balmoral, a place that the queen loved so much.— loved so much. jane, i think that is absolutely right. _ loved so much. jane, i think that is absolutely right. we _ loved so much. jane, i think that is absolutely right. we are _ absolutely right. we are anticipating that moment when we see the queen's coffin for the first

time. you know, a lot of people have said to over the past few days, it doesn't seem real. after all, they saw that photograph of the queen just five days ago meeting the new prime minister. but this moment, when the coffin emerges, that will be something that is tangible. let me give you a little sense of what is happening and what has been happening over the last few minutes at the castle. we know that six gamekeepers from the balmoral estate will carry the coffin from the ballroom, where it has been resting, through the small dining room, out to the hearse. and the queen will be played out of balmoral for the final time by her piper, the sovereign's piper, and these are the moments,

have been here since thursday, also how close personal staff, many of whom have served herfor decades, will be spending those last private moments with the queen, saying those final goodbyes here at balmoral, the place that she loved so much and spent so much happy time in. we understand that the oak coffin will be direct with the royal standard for scotland, and we have been getting a little bit of detail about the simple wreath which will be placed on the coffin, and we are told it will be made up of sweet peak, dahlias, other plants from the estate. i think there will be a simplicity to this part of the journey, in contrast to the solomon

grundy other no doubt we will see for the state funeral. but there will be a simplicity to this which i think is very much reflective of what the royals and the queen loved about this place. because here, their life was much simpler, it was a normal life, impaired to perhaps their other residences. and i spoke to the minister at the church in ballater, which is the nearest town to balmoral castle, and which has a close association with the royal family. i spoke to him yesterday, and he told me that metaphorically, when the queen arrived here, she hung her crown on the castle gates. said this was a place where she could be a wife, a mother and later a grandmother, and great grandmother. it was a place where she could relax, breathe, could be

with family and friends, with her dogs, and really relax. to have that conversation with the minister, because he has met the queen on a number of occasions, spoken to her at length. let me tell you about one of the anecdotes that he shared with me. he was talking about the floods in ballater, which caused huge destruction to part of the town in 2015, and later, after repairs had been made, the queen paid a visit to thank volunteers. fine been made, the queen paid a visit to thank volunteers.— thank volunteers. one of the people that she spoke _ thank volunteers. one of the people that she spoke to _ thank volunteers. one of the people that she spoke to was _ thank volunteers. one of the people that she spoke to was a _ thank volunteers. one of the people that she spoke to was a gentleman l that she spoke to was a gentleman one go younger than the queen, he had always taken care of the war memorial in front of the church in ballater. and although he was elderly, after the floods, he painstakingly restored the war memorial to its pristine condition and when the queen was meeting him,

she said, you do remember me, don't you? and it turned out that he was the son of someone who worked here on the estate and that the queen and he had played together as children. and he said, yes, ma'am, of course i remember you but i didn't want to presume. and then the two of them reminisced about playing together, and it was clear, the reverend told me, that the queen have such fond and happy memories of her childhood here, and of course she spent part of her honeymoon at balmoral as well, and all of those summer holidays where she could really relax. i was also reflecting with him that this moment, jane, as you alluded to, when we see the coffin, it will be an incredibly emotional time for people, for many reasons. there is of course that grief for the queen, perhaps bringing to the

surface feelings of grief for people that we have lost. and also i think it will be about the change that her death represents, because she has been a constant for so long, for 70 years of her reign. she has been described by people here to me as steadfast, as a rock, as a beacon of hope, the politicians have come and gone, but she has been a constant. and she has been a constant through turbulent times, turbulence which we still live through, the pandemic, the financial crisis, the war that is going on in ukraine, but the queen has always been the constant through all of those times, but now she is gone. and it is no coincidence that king charles iii, in his address to the nation, he mirrored some of the language at the

queen also used when she was crowned. we see that the police officers who have been standing guard at the gates have moved. just before you came to us, we have seen police motorcycle outriders and other vehicles moving past this position, down to the balmoral bridge that leads out to the maine road. and to crathie kirk, the church where the royals worship when data here over the summer holidays. so, we take this as a signal that the hearse carrying the queen's coffin is close by. we understand that we will also see the princess royal, princess anne and her husband vice admiral tim lawrence accompanying the coffin on its journey. we understand that the

other members of the royal family who are here, we saw them looking at the floral tributes yesterday and thanking people who had come to pay their respects, we understand they will stay here at the castle for the moment, but will at some point after that follow on to edinburgh, which is, of course, the destination for the cortege today. and once the hearse has left the castle, it will make its way through the aberdeenshire countryside, including two ballater, that town i mentioned, where people said they felt so protective of the queen, they of course still feel protective of her, they say they feel protective of the royal family at all times, but especially in these days. it will make its way through ballater, and

then onto the outskirts of towns including aberdeen, dundee and then edinburgh, the royal mile, and to the palace of holyroodhouse. this will take them pastjust a short distance from where i am standing, crathie kirk, the church where the royals worshipped during the summer holidays, in fact, just about a week ago, the queen was speaking to the right reverend dr ian brown shields, the moderator of the general assembly of scotland, here at balmoral, he said that she was obviously frail but absolutely on the ball, and very much engaged going on in the church, and that was what we saw reflected on tuesday,

when she had those audiences with the outgoing prime minister boris