welcome to hardtalk i am stephen sackur. like a gambler desperate to reverse a losing streak, vladimir putin is raising the stakes as he loses ground in ukraine. he has ordered a partial mobilisation for this war that he claims is not a war and is bringing up his threats to go nuclear if necessary. what does this mean for ukraine and the support it relies on in the west? my guest is ivanna klympush—tsintsadze, chair of the ukrainian parliament eu integration committee. can putin's threats undermine support for kyiv?

ivanna klympush—tsintsadze mtf, welcome to hardtalk. ivanna klympush-tsintsadze mtf, welcome to hardtalk.— welcome to hardtalk. thank you for invitin: welcome to hardtalk. thank you for inviting me. _ welcome to hardtalk. thank you for inviting me. it's— welcome to hardtalk. thank you for inviting me. it's a _ for inviting me. it's a pleasure _ for inviting me. it's a pleasure to - for inviting me. it's a pleasure to have - for inviting me. it's a pleasure to have you i for inviting me. it's a i pleasure to have you on for inviting me. it's a - pleasure to have you on the show. ijust wonder that if pleasure to have you on the show. i just wonder that if you have any mixed feelings about the speed and the scale of ukrainian battlefield successes in recent days, given that the response from putin in moscow appears to be a very significant escalation of his military commitment. definitely, you're putting it right. it is about escalation and readiness to escalate that we are seeing in the speech that was delivered by putin. and we see that he is probably trying to address several audiences, from my perspective,

both internal and the russian federation trying to, not to accept that he is basically losing to ukrainian armed forces, but is trying to present this war is a war against the west, against nato countries and is basically trying to ensure that he is fighting the war with the whole west saying to the west that probably, threatening the west and looking for the weak links, maybe someone who can break this unity that we have right now and the support for ukrainian armed forces and for ukrainian armed forces and for ukrainian society and ukrainian state. but also, he wants to ensure that russian people would be even more on board with him at this particular moment.

with him at this particular moment-— with him at this particular moment. �* ., moment. and we will get to the psychological — moment. and we will get to the psychological impact _ moment. and we will get to the psychological impact of - moment. and we will get to the psychological impact of what . moment. and we will get to the psychological impact of what he i psychological impact of what he has said in the west and you have mentioned very carefully that you've been intimately involved with the ukraine's diplomatic relations with the us. talk about the psychological impact on ukrainians themselves when prudence this defence minister and they talk about the immediate call up of 300,000 reservists and the implication that many, many could follow, does that lead to a level of apprehension and fear in ukraine? iii apprehension and fear in ukraine?— apprehension and fear in ukraine? . ., ., apprehension and fear in ukraine? . ., , ukraine? if that was one of his coals, ukraine? if that was one of his goals, definitely _ ukraine? if that was one of his goals, definitely he _ ukraine? if that was one of his goals, definitely he is - ukraine? if that was one of his goals, definitely he is not - goals, definitely he is not reaching that in ukraine. after what we have seen over this, some eight years and seven months of this war because it started back in 2014 and scaled up started back in 2014 and scaled up as of february 2014, we are not scared of russian black

male, of russian propaganda, of russian attacks or we just have to be even more resolute and even more united to push russia back. —— blackmail. to have the country that will be built in a democratic way that we want to have our own way, we have to show that we are protecting our country and that we are freeing it. ., ._ ., , country and that we are freeing it. you may not be scared but there is a _ it. you may not be scared but there is a corrosive _ it. you may not be scared but there is a corrosive effect - it. you may not be scared but there is a corrosive effect to i there is a corrosive effect to russia upping the ante and we had seen it in recent weeks is the targeting of infrastructure and the power infrastructure and the power infrastructure and even new attacks very close to some of ukraine's nuclear energy installations. these have an impact and it cannot be denied. ~ ,,., , , ., denied. absolutely, they do have an impact _ denied. absolutely, they do

have an impact and - denied. absolutely, they do have an impact and we - denied. absolutely, they do have an impact and we see| denied. absolutely, they do - have an impact and we see that russia is already hiding its attempts to ruin critical infrastructure and attack exclusively civilian populations and threaten civilian populations in ukraine but that means for my perspective, only one thing, that more and more weapons have to be delivered to ukraine and faster and faster. they have to be given to ukrainian armed forces were capable of using the instruments if they have them at hand in order to protect the civilians and also to liberate the territories. it's not also about the liberation of territories but also about the liberation of people who have been tortured or have been deported forcefully from occupied territories and those of been raped and killed on those territories and saving those

who survived is of extreme importance. who survived is of extreme importance-— who survived is of extreme importance. you talk of this territories _ importance. you talk of this territories in _ importance. you talk of this territories in the _ importance. you talk of this territories in the key - importance. you talk of this i territories in the key elements of putin's most recent elements is the recommendation that the referendum is going to happen and the next few days in four regions of your country which to a certain extent occupy more or less by russian forces and it was clear that this is the beginning of the process of annexation just like beginning of the process of annexationjust like in beginning of the process of annexation just like in crimea. that changes the dynamic in important ways because russia response defence of its integrity is soon going to include swathes of territory, including the don bass, including the don bass, including almost all of the area as well. this changes the game. i area as well. this changes the name. ~' �* , area as well. this changes the iame_ ~ �*, ., area as well. this changes the name. ~ 2 ., ., game. i think it's important to be clear about _ game. i think it's important to be clear about terminology, i be clear about terminology, stephen. because it is not

referendums, distinct referendums, distinct referendums or no advance or attempts to legitimise the russian presence on the occupied territories but definitely they have nothing to do with real referendums or real polling or real voting on this territories. it is a we all have to be clear about a very happy that a lot of international leaders have already come out with the statement that nobody is going to recognise whatever is going to recognise whatever is going to happen on these occupied territories. you are right when you are saying that putin is going to use this justification for referendums to just justification of his defence of russian territory quote unquote because yes, they can use their armed forces because they want to protect their territories and they can even use nuclear weapons to protect them. you

raise it and — weapons to protect them. you raise it and it's _ weapons to protect them. you raise it and it's very _ raise it and it's very important because perhaps any other part for putin is saying is the west is very much preoccupied with this ramping up preoccupied with this ramping up nuclear rhetoric and he appears in a quote directly from his words, he says of the territorial integrity of the country is threatened, we will certainly use all the means and he is pointing to nuclear capability to protect russian and our people. this is not a bluff. putin telling the west, think about our nuclear power, this is not a bluff. how do you in the ukraine deal with that? first and foremost, you have to understand that we are not naive people in ukraine. we have seen so many atrocities over this period of time and we understand that he might not be just exclusively bluffing. at

the same time, we know that if there will be a clear understanding with an russia that their attempt at using nuclear weapons against any territory in our country will get the response with nuclear response from the west and that could stop absolute mat man that has started this aggressive unprovoked war and that could stop his so—called elite or is click that is accompanying him there from using nuclear weapons. in your oinion, using nuclear weapons. in your 0pinion. what— using nuclear weapons. in your opinion, what putin _ using nuclear weapons. in your opinion, what putin has - using nuclear weapons. in your opinion, what putin hasjust. opinion, what putin hasjust said will not make a blind bit of difference to ukraine's determination to push on with its counteroffensive trying to take back territory and take back, it won't make any

difference at all to your military strategy?- difference at all to your military strategy? difference at all to your milita strate: ? ~ , ., military strategy? why would it sto us military strategy? why would it step us from — military strategy? why would it stop us from liberating - military strategy? why would it stop us from liberating our- stop us from liberating our people and are territories? again, it's about our people, it's about our territories, it's about our territories, it's about our territories, it's about international law and it is aboutjustice, if you wish. and all the people who have been under occupation and got this blessing of being liberated by the ukrainian armed forces, they desperately want prosecution for all of those who have committed crimes in our territory, including their commander mr putin. so, therefore, that would not stop our armed forces and may be on the tactics, that might be the case i'm sure that nothing will change with the resolve and with readiness of ukrainian society. if we stop fighting

and do not get them out, we will not survive. it is as easy as that. ., ., , ., ~ will not survive. it is as easy as that. ., ., ~ as that. how do you think those --eole as that. how do you think those peeple and _ as that. how do you think those peeple and the _ as that. how do you think those people and the united - as that. how do you think those people and the united kingdom j people and the united kingdom and in the us who are many of miles away from the front line in ukraine, how will they feel about russia ramping up the real threat, the threat of nuclear war?— real threat, the threat of nuclear war? you see, it is about sobriety _ nuclear war? you see, it is about sobriety of _ nuclear war? you see, it is i about sobriety of assessment nuclear war? you see, it is - about sobriety of assessment of the threat that russia is posing to ukraine. he has been very clear that he wants to reach his goals not only over territories of our country, he wants to get to the borders of 1997. pre—expansion of nato and the eu and that means he is threatening to many more nations than just ukrainian nations. that means that today,

the security come at the future of the european continent and, basically, the western civilisation, is being decided here on our territory with the resources and the courage and capacity of the ukrainian society and ukrainian armed forces with which we are pushing back on the aggressor. as we speak, joe biden is talking in the united states and he is again expressing complete solidarity with ukraine and emphasising putin will achieve nothing by threats in force. so it has not changed, but it's interesting to me that while many of politicians in ukraine say what we need is weapons, weapons from the west, there are things which even the us government, your most loyal provider of weapons is not providing you with and i'm thinking of long—range rocket systems,

tanks, us fighter planes, warplanes, you are not getting things you say you need, still less from many in europe. why do you think that is? unfortunately, it takes some time for our partners to understand the actual need and to understand the actual capacity of ukrainians to use this or that type of weaponry. i wish he would have gone into training of our ukrainian pilots to use american fighter jets already back in march or april but that decision has not been taken yet. and unfortunately, there is some kind of vicious circle that no nation in the world would give us a modern type of tank. it's not only does about that but it's also about from germany or

other countries that have these german tanks as well. so, this is about political will and by readiness to take that responsibility and not being afraid of escalating. putin does not need a pretext for escalation. he is escalating and he is going to escalate anyhow because he is failing. he is failing to reach his political and military goals in ukraine and the more he is failing, the more it will be trained escalate more. we can stop them together if we have all the instruments. be stop them together if we have all the instruments.— stop them together if we have all the instruments. be the key to that is we — all the instruments. be the key to that is we can _ all the instruments. be the key to that is we can stop - all the instruments. be the key to that is we can stop them - to that is we can stop them together and putin sees that ultimately, ukraine for good or ill, is deeply desperately dependent on the continued and increased flow of weapons, military assistance, more ammunition coming from the west and if that flow cannot be

sustained and indeed ramped up, then putin believes you have a serious problem and if you look at the reality, look at germany which you raised with me, what we see is a country still deeply reluctant. german defence minister said just the other day, quote. we are reaching the limits of what we can give out of the german army. that is the reality that you have to deal with. you see, we are seeing — you have to deal with. you see, we are seeing it _ you have to deal with. you see, we are seeing it unprecedented | we are seeing it unprecedented times, unprecedented solutions and actions. because, no one would believe back on the 24th of february the germany would totally change its doctrine and would be ready to provide weaponry to the country that is at war and that is what germany is already doing. so, unfortunately, things are taking more time than we would

like to happen. and unfortunately, that creates additional new graves and postponement and it's creating additional graphs in a territory because of the people were dying from russian aggression and i'm sure that all those political decisions are needed to be taken to protect not exclusive ukraine and i underline, it's not about exclusively us, it's about your well—being, it's about your rules, procedures, values, your future and that is being decided here. and this will be understood that will lead to these elections. he understood that will lead to these elections.— these elections. he tried to rive these elections. he tried to give this — these elections. he tried to give this message - these elections. he tried to give this message to - these elections. he tried to - give this message to europeans loud and clear but you must also be mindfulfor tens of thousands of people who went onto the streets the czech

republic who said they want to focus entirely on domestic issues like the soaring price of energy rather than see the government give more and more assistance to ukraine. he must be aware that the italian people are about to go to boat and may vote for a far right government, including someone who was a long—time friend of putin. you must see that there are trends in some parts of europe which are not necessarily to your advantage, particularly in the long term with winter coming, soaring energy costs, people with winter coming, soaring energy costs, people looking inward in europe rather than outward. ., , ., ., , outward. you see all of this demonstrations _ outward. you see all of this demonstrations are - outward. you see all of this| demonstrations are actually happening not without engagement of russian federation. the russian federation. the russian federation has been investing in political corruption over a different european capitals over decades, including an

propaganda as well and that gives some result also to the dependency of the european countries over the russian energy resources through, sometimes through corruption which has created additional problems right now for the eu countries that cannot easily deviate in and change their resources or energy in the ways in which they are receiving it. when we were all of the morning about that and saying that —— warning that this is actually totally geopolitical and has nothing to do with the economy and no one wanted to believe us, but then finally, the sobriety as an eye—opening experience for many and so, we have to be very responsible and it's about time for politicians to explain to the societies

that we have to go through these decisions in order to live in our devon future, a prosperous future and not end “p prosperous future and not end up in the territory and our countries which will be as attacked by the russian federation and if it's not stopped or not stopped there it is right now. do stopped or not stopped there it is right "ow-— is right now. do you not have to be responsible _ is right now. do you not have to be responsible have - is right now. do you not have to be responsible have a - is right now. do you not have| to be responsible have a duty to be responsible have a duty to tell your ukrainian people the truth that actually there are real problems in parts of europe with believing support for your country is going to be sustainable and eu in particular have worked so hard to get ukraine to candidate status in the eu, you have to be honestly people seem despite polls believe ukrainians could come within two years, it's probably not going to come for a decade or more. there's so many hoops you have to jump through before you get anywhere near becoming a member state of the eu. maybe it is time for you to be a little bit realistic about what ukraine

can achieve and where europe is in terms of support for ukraine. i in terms of support for ukraine.— in terms of support for ukraine. ~ �* , , ukraine. i think i've been very vocal in clear— ukraine. i think i've been very vocal in clear about _ ukraine. i think i've been very vocal in clear about any - vocal in clear about any prospects for ukraine they also believe that it is incredibly important to focus on the homework we must deliver in order to get to a state where we can knock on the door of the already members and the eu and hopein already members and the eu and hope in nato as a strong and capable member. if i hope in nato as a strong and capable member.— capable member. if i may interrupt. _ capable member. ifi may interrupt, president - capable member. ifi may. interrupt, president zelensky seemed to abandon the nato objective and so, that surely is wishful thinking? i objective and so, that surely is wishful thinking?- objective and so, that surely is wishful thinking? i think he kind of changed _ is wishful thinking? i think he kind of changed his _ is wishful thinking? i think he kind of changed his mind - is wishful thinking? i think he | kind of changed his mind back to the ukrainian constitution which foresees the strategic goal to become nato members and from my perspective, i don't see any other security guarantee neither fruit ukraine

are basically for nato. besides ukrainejoining nato and are basically for nato. besides ukraine joining nato and that will make both actors, both ukraine and nato much stronger from my perspective that's the only way, i don't believe many fig leaves budapest memorandums or other arrangements that will be discussed at this particular moment. four if you say that actually ukraine is intent on nato membership, itjust makes me feel. nato membership, it 'ust makes me feel. ., , nato membership, it 'ust makes me feel. . , ., ., ., me feel. that will be out of an existential _ me feel. that will be out of an existential conflict _ me feel. that will be out of an existential conflict with - existential conflict with vladimir putin which can only end in one or two ways, either he wins and ukraine as we know it is destroyed or you win and putin and his regime will be destroyed. will you agree with that analysis? there is no room for negotiation any more. it seems that this is an existential struggle which will either see ukraine or putin finished. either see ukraine or putin finished-—

either see ukraine or putin finished. ~ �* , finished. we've been saying that this is _ finished. we've been saying that this is absolutely - that this is absolutely existential, if we stop fighting, we will cease to exist because russia has decided that we are nonexistent and they want to eradicate us. and it erases from the map of the world. and that means that there has to be russia's defeat, rush is weakening and russia's punishment for this absolutely illegal aggressive war that they are fighting. right now and call and get a special operation, now may be changing a little bit because of the partial mobilisation that they are announcing today, basically. and, yes, we are sure that despite russia being defeated, there is no peace, not for ukraine. there is no peace for european continent and basically, there is no peace for the globe as well. because russia, they will use

its victory if it is allowed to win this war for a continuation of the aggression or continuation of the atrocities of other parts, and other parts of other parts, and other parts of the world and being not punished for the crimes. and it will raise the appetite for additional attacks. will raise the appetite for additionalattacks. it will raise the appetite for additional attacks.- additional attacks. it is inconceivable - additional attacks. it is inconceivable that - additional attacks. it is i inconceivable that ukraine additional attacks. it is inconceivable that ukraine can win in this conflict without massive sustained long—term support from the west and europe, are you sure you're going to get that sustained, massive support? irate going to get that sustained, massive support?— going to get that sustained, massive support? we are going to work on _ massive support? we are going to work on it — massive support? we are going to work on it and _ massive support? we are going to work on it and since - massive support? we are going to work on it and since we - to work on it and since we believe that we are standing here, for those values that are being declared by western nations, the being declared by civilised nations, we hope that we will be able, not only to sustain, but also to increase that support that is coming at

this particular moment in order for all of us to win over this evil and the light has to propel over the darkness —— prevail. propel over the darkness -- revail. ., ., prevail. ivanna - klympush-tsintsadze, prevail. ivanna _ klympush-tsintsadze, thank you klympush—tsintsadze, thank you for joining klympush—tsintsadze, thank you forjoining us. hello there. the weather is going to be changing through the rest of this week. but on wednesday, temperatures reached 22 degrees in surrey. but also in the northeast of scotland where we had some sunshine for a while. towards the northwest of scotland, things are rather different and looming large really on the satellite picture is this broad band of cloud that is heading down from the northwest. it's due to a weather front,

of course, and that front is notjust bringing cloud but his band of rain. that wetter weather is pushing further into scotland and northern ireland. and that weather front will take the rain south eastwards over the next couple of days, pushing away the warmer air ahead of it and replacing things with more of a northwesterly breeze and bring cooler conditions following the rain. but the rain is still falling early on thursday morning in scotland and northern ireland. heavy in places, that rain will just trickle down in northern england and will get wetter here during the day, especially in the northwest of england. some rain in the afternoon heading into wales, but ahead of the rain, midlands, much of southern and eastern england will be dry, some spells of sunshine and still quite warm air. so, we could make 22 degrees again in the southeast. but following the band of rain, whilst we'll get some sunshine in scotland and northern ireland, and the winds will be quite light and it's cooler air so temperatures will be typically 15 or 16 degrees. that band of rain still initially rather heavy in places would just trickle down into the midlands and head towards the southeast by friday morning.

we will have clear skies following in the court is whether on friday morning will be across the northern half of the uk in which milder further south where we have the rain. frederick you look a little different across east anglia in the southeast with more cloud, some rain at times and some of weather likely to be here across kent and sussex. away from here some spousal sunshine, scattering of some light showers, mainly because scotland and northern ireland but temperatures are typically going to be around 17 degrees on friday to end the week. let's head into the weekend and we could still see some rain not far away from the far southeast of england, high pressure trying to build in from the atlantic but this is going to be at the end of the weekend, when weather beginning to arrive. but for much of the weekend, it's going to be but rather cool to see some sunshine from time to time. goodbye.

welcome to newsday — reporting live from singapore. i'm karishma vaswani. the headlines: thousands protests in russia as president putin orders the mobilisation of military reservists and has this warning for the west. translation: if the territorial integrity of our country is threatened, then to defend russia, and our people, we will, of course, use all means at our disposal. i am not bluffing. russia's invasion is condemned at the un general assembly. president biden says it's a shameless violation of the un charter.