the polls and the pound has ladder. the polls and the pound has taken a hammering _ ladder. the polls and the pound has taken a hammering time _ ladder. the polls and the pound has taken a hammering time again. - ladder. the polls and the pound has taken a hammering time again. so i ladder. the polls and the pound has| taken a hammering time again. so is liz truss arrives in birmingham we have one big question, with so much pushback, can she make it work? the prime minister is here — i'll be talking to her in the next ten minutes. and also with me in birmingham is the shadow chancellor, labour's rachel reeves. and with me for the next hour is sharon white, the chair of thejohn lewis partnership, pippa crerar, the guardian's political editor and michael gove — the former levelling up, education, justice, cabinet office and environment secretary — have i missed any michael? — now on the backbenches after attacking liz truss' plans during the leadership election. they'll give their reaction to the prime minister's interview later. but it's not all politics. if anyone in your house loves star wars, you might want to tell them we'll be speaking to luke skywalker himself, mark hamill.

good morning and a very warm welcome to our viewers watching around the world and here at home. pippa, you and i have done a lot of these conferences, big get—togethers. this is pretty unusual, isn't it, to start against this backdrop? in unusual, isn't it, to start against this backdrop?— this backdrop? in 20 years of coverin: this backdrop? in 20 years of covering politics _ this backdrop? in 20 years of covering politics and - this backdrop? in 20 years of covering politics and coming| this backdrop? in 20 years of. covering politics and coming to these annual events i've never been in a situation like this, never seen a situation like this. there is so much liz truss needs to do. she needs to convince her veryjittery party, her members who backed her during the contest and mp5, that she understands their concerns but much more importantly she needs to talk beyond them to the public, who are incredibly anxious about the prospect of mortgage rates going up, their energy bills in the winter we

have a head with many parts of the public sector on their needs, she needs to show she is listening. it’s needs to show she is listening. it's about the economy, sharon white you've got a unique blend of experience, running john lewis and having contact with customers and having contact with customers and having a seniorjob at the treasury, how would you describe what's going on in the economy? it’s on in the economy? it's unprecedented. - on in the economy? it's unprecedented. we - on in the economy? it's unprecedented. we had two micro years— unprecedented. we had two micro years of— unprecedented. we had two micro years of covid and now we are in the biggest _ years of covid and now we are in the biggest cost — years of covid and now we are in the biggest cost of living crisis we've had since — biggest cost of living crisis we've had since the 1970s, so i think the government's progrowth aspiration is very laudable, obviously with the sorts _ very laudable, obviously with the sorts of _ very laudable, obviously with the sorts of risks and turbulence we seen _ sorts of risks and turbulence we seen this— sorts of risks and turbulence we seen this week, the worry is that laudable — seen this week, the worry is that laudable aim is undermined, so certainly— laudable aim is undermined, so certainly i — laudable aim is undermined, so certainly i think businesses, customers worried up and down the country _ customers worried up and down the country i_ customers worried up and down the country. i think we are looking for security— country. i think we are looking for security and — country. i think we are looking for security and stability. what country. i think we are looking for security and stability.— country. i think we are looking for security and stability. what are you sensin: security and stability. what are you sensing from _ security and stability. what are you sensing from your _ security and stability. what are you sensing from your customers? - security and stability. what are you l sensing from your customers? how security and stability. what are you - sensing from your customers? how are people behaving? are they changing their behaviour? i people behaving? are they changing their behaviour?— their behaviour? i think they are. customers _ their behaviour? i think they are. customers are _ their behaviour? i think they are. customers are feeling _ their behaviour? i think they are. customers are feeling it. - their behaviour? i think they are. customers are feeling it. we've l their behaviour? i think they are. l customers are feeling it. we've got more _ customers are feeling it. we've got more customers in waitrose thanjohn lewis— more customers in waitrose thanjohn

lewis but— more customers in waitrose thanjohn lewis but with they are all buying 'ust lewis but with they are all buying just a _ lewis but with they are all buying just a little bit less so you are probably— just a little bit less so you are probably putting off that sofa purchase until next year, obviously with mortgage rates rising that's another— with mortgage rates rising that's another potential drag musso cost of livin- another potential drag musso cost of living is— another potential drag musso cost of living is incredibly important. that's— living is incredibly important. that's been reflected in this morning's front pages, we can take a look at the observer, talking about how public support seems to have slumped for the conservatives. the people are saying you have lost that trust, liz truss, and the telegraph suggesting liz truss has no intention of turning. michael gove, you were critical of her during the election campaign, what do you want to hearfrom her this morning to convince you she is on the right track? , , ., ., convince you she is on the right track? , ., , ., ., track? this is a time of profound uncertainty. _ track? this is a time of profound uncertainty. we _ track? this is a time of profound uncertainty, we are _ track? this is a time of profound uncertainty, we are in _ track? this is a time of profound uncertainty, we are in real- track? this is a time of profound - uncertainty, we are in real economic circumstances, _ uncertainty, we are in real economic circumstances, people _ uncertainty, we are in real economic circumstances, people are _ uncertainty, we are in real economic circumstances, people are facing - uncertainty, we are in real economic| circumstances, people are facing the prospect— circumstances, people are facing the prospect of— circumstances, people are facing the prospect of their _ circumstances, people are facing the prospect of their mortgage _ circumstances, people are facing the prospect of their mortgage rising, i prospect of their mortgage rising, people _ prospect of their mortgage rising, people are — prospect of their mortgage rising, people are looking _ prospect of their mortgage rising, people are looking to _ prospect of their mortgage rising, people are looking to liz - prospect of their mortgage rising, people are looking to liz and - prospect of their mortgage rising, i people are looking to liz and kwasi and want _ people are looking to liz and kwasi and want reassurance. _ people are looking to liz and kwasi and want reassurance. they - people are looking to liz and kwasi and want reassurance. they want l people are looking to liz and kwasii and want reassurance. they want to think— and want reassurance. they want to think this _ and want reassurance. they want to think this has —

and want reassurance. they want to think this has been _ and want reassurance. they want to think this has been well _ and want reassurance. they want to think this has been well thought - think this has been well thought through. — think this has been well thought through. that _ think this has been well thought through, that it— think this has been well thought through, that it will— think this has been well thought through, that it will work, - think this has been well thought through, that it will work, that i think this has been well thought| through, that it will work, that it will command _ through, that it will work, that it will command the _ through, that it will work, that it will command the confidence - through, that it will work, that it will command the confidence ofi through, that it will work, that it. will command the confidence of the money— will command the confidence of the money men — will command the confidence of the money men in _ will command the confidence of the money men in the _ will command the confidence of the money men in the markets - will command the confidence of the money men in the markets and - will command the confidence of the| money men in the markets and also want _ money men in the markets and also want to— money men in the markets and also want to know— money men in the markets and also want to know that _ money men in the markets and also want to know that the _ money men in the markets and also want to know that the prime - money men in the markets and alsoi want to know that the prime minister and chancettor— want to know that the prime minister and chancellor share _ want to know that the prime minister and chancellor share their _ want to know that the prime minister and chancellor share their values, i and chancellor share their values, and chancellor share their values, and this— and chancellor share their values, and this is — and chancellor share their values, and this is a — and chancellor share their values, and this is a critical— and chancellor share their values, and this is a critical question. - and this is a critical question. it's and this is a critical question. it's not — and this is a critical question. it's notiust_ and this is a critical question. it's not just about _ and this is a critical question. i it's not just about commanding economic— it's not just about commanding economic confidence, - it's not just about commanding economic confidence, it's - it's not just about commanding | economic confidence, it's about showing — economic confidence, it's about showing that _ economic confidence, it's about showing that in _ economic confidence, it's about showing that in the _ economic confidence, it's about showing that in the hearts - economic confidence, it's about showing that in the hearts they| economic confidence, it's about - showing that in the hearts they know what people — showing that in the hearts they know what people want _ showing that in the hearts they know what people want to _ showing that in the hearts they know what people want to see _ showing that in the hearts they know what people want to see the - showing that in the hearts they know what people want to see the next - showing that in the hearts they knowi what people want to see the next few years _ what people want to see the next few ears. �* what people want to see the next few ears. . ., what people want to see the next few ears. �* ., y ., ~ , what people want to see the next few ears. �* ., ,, ~ , ., what people want to see the next few ears. . ., i. ~ , ., ., years. and do you think they do from what ou years. and do you think they do from what you seen _ years. and do you think they do from what you seen the _ years. and do you think they do from what you seen the last _ years. and do you think they do from what you seen the last seven - what you seen the last seven days? there were a number of mistakes made last friday— there were a number of mistakes made last friday in _ there were a number of mistakes made last friday in the — there were a number of mistakes made last friday in the fiscal— there were a number of mistakes made last friday in the fiscal event, _ there were a number of mistakes made last friday in the fiscal event, the - last friday in the fiscal event, the mini budget. _ last friday in the fiscal event, the mini budget, but— last friday in the fiscal event, the mini budget, but there _ last friday in the fiscal event, the mini budget, but there is- last friday in the fiscal event, the mini budget, but there is room i last friday in the fiscal event, the i mini budget, but there is room and time to— mini budget, but there is room and time to address _ mini budget, but there is room and time to address them _ mini budget, but there is room and time to address them and - mini budget, but there is room and time to address them and to - mini budget, but there is room and| time to address them and to correct them _ time to address them and to correct them and _ time to address them and to correct them and that — time to address them and to correct them and that is— time to address them and to correct them and that is the _ time to address them and to correct them and that is the challenge - time to address them and to correct them and that is the challenge thisi them and that is the challenge this week _ them and that is the challenge this week. ., ., ., , ., week. you mentioned kwasi kwarteng, the chancellor. — week. you mentioned kwasi kwarteng, the chancellor, pippa, _ week. you mentioned kwasi kwarteng, the chancellor, pippa, i— week. you mentioned kwasi kwarteng, the chancellor, pippa, i want— week. you mentioned kwasi kwarteng, the chancellor, pippa, i want to - week. you mentioned kwasi kwarteng, the chancellor, pippa, i want to ask- the chancellor, pippa, i want to ask you about another story at the sunday times about kwasi kwarteng meeting up with some bankers must hedge fund financiers on the evening of the mini budget. do you think that's going to cause political trouble? i that's going to cause political trouble? .. , , that's going to cause political trouble? ~ , , , trouble? i think it brings his judgment — trouble? i think it brings his judgment into _ trouble? i think it brings his judgment into question. -

trouble? i think it brings his judgment into question. noj trouble? i think it brings his - judgment into question. no sound. trouble? i think it brings his _ judgment into question. no sound. in judgment into question. no sound. in the sunday times _ judgment into question. no sound. in the sunday times story _ judgment into question. no sound. in the sunday times story suggesting, . the sunday times story suggesting, being told that he should double down on his plans and of course as we all know he then went on television on sunday and suggested there might be more changes to come so it definitely brings hisjudgment into question and secondly the big problem the government faces right now is showing people they are on their side, that's already been buffeted a bit with the 45p tax cut and the bankers' bonuses policy and now to make it look as though actually he is prepared to talk and maybe act, though the treasury denies there was the conversation, on the back of a meeting, a champagne reception with hedge fund managers who stood to benefit from the pound collapsing potentially, i think a lot of people will be thinking at home, are they on my side? , ., ., ~' ., side? plenty to talk about with liz truss and probably _ side? plenty to talk about with liz truss and probably we _ side? plenty to talk about with liz truss and probably we would - truss and probably we would expect... no sound.

people aren't paying more than £2500, a typicalfamily people aren't paying more than £2500, a typical family isn't, making sure we are dealing with the issue of inflation because our energy package is likely to reduce inflation by up to 5%, but also taking action to get the economy growing because that is so vital, both to help us get through this winter which is going to be incrediblytgggh also if he, a in long term, one facing, if i'd come on your show now and we hadn't acted on those things, we would be in serious trouble as a

country. we would be in serious trouble as a count . . , we would be in serious trouble as a count . ., , _ we would be in serious trouble as a count . ., , ., , country. can i 'ust say, on energy, 'ust to country. can i 'ust say, on energy, just to be — country. can ijust say, on energy, just to be completely _ country. can ijust say, on energy, just to be completely clear - country. can ijust say, on energy, just to be completely clear for - just to be completely clear for people, you said you are controlling bills for a typical family. what has actually happened is you've capped the unit price and many people may end up paying more than £2500, and we should be crystal clear about that, shouldn't we? this we should be crystal clear about that, shouldn't we?— we should be crystal clear about that, shouldn't we? this is the bill for an average _ that, shouldn't we? this is the bill for an average family _ that, shouldn't we? this is the bill for an average family but - that, shouldn't we? this is the bill for an average family but what - that, shouldn't we? this is the bill for an average family but what we | for an average family but what we are preventing is those extraordinary bills that people were expecting. it is a big energy package and it's the biggest part of our mini budget and it was important that the government stepped in to deal with this and we are notjust dealing with it as the labour party has suggested for six months, we are dealing with it for two years, to make sure people have that reassurance that they are not facing those ultra... stand reassurance that they are not facing those ultra. . ._ reassurance that they are not facing those ultra... and you've made that oint those ultra... and you've made that point about — those ultra... and you've made that point about your _ those ultra... and you've made that point about your energy _ those ultra... and you've made that point about your energy off - those ultra... and you've made that point about your energy off to - those ultra... and you've made that point about your energy off to the l point about your energy off to the country, you've made that very clear, but something else has happened in the last seven days that's notjust about happened in the last seven days that's not just about what you are doing on energy bills. as we come on air today, doing on energy bills. as we come on airtoday, people doing on energy bills. as we come on air today, people are worried about their mortgages, they are worried about their rent, they are worried

about their rent, they are worried about being able to pay their business loans. do you feel any responsibility for that anxiety? i understand how worried people are and i understand that people are struggling and it's very, very difficult times, and this is a global problem. we've got putin's war in ukraine, the aftermath of covid, and what is happening around the world is that interest rates are rising so the federal reserve has pushed its interest rates up to li% stop this is a global phenomenon in. this is notjust a global problem. absolutely there are issues in economies around the world right now but this is notjust a global problem. what happens when you announced the measures in your mini budget, billions of pounds of tax cuts with no information about how this would be paid for, billions of pounds of extra borrowing with no clarity about how they would be paid for, what happened was that the pound slumped, interest rates shot

up pound slumped, interest rates shot up and that has left people in this country with a deep sense of worry as a result of the decisions that you and your chancellor made. do you accept that?— accept that? well, first of all i want to reassure _ accept that? well, first of all i want to reassure people - accept that? well, first of all i want to reassure people that i accept that? well, first of all i l want to reassure people that we accept that? well, first of all i - want to reassure people that we do have a very clear plan stop first of all about how we are going to get through this winter with our energy plan. through this winter with our energy lan. �* , ., �* ., through this winter with our energy ian, �* , ., �* ., ., through this winter with our energy plan. and you've made that point but i'm askin: plan. and you've made that point but i'm asking you _ plan. and you've made that point but i'm asking you about _ plan. and you've made that point but i'm asking you about the _ plan. and you've made that point but i'm asking you about the mini - i'm asking you about the mini budget, prime minister. hagar i'm asking you about the mini budget, prime minister. how we are deafinu budget, prime minister. how we are dealing with — budget, prime minister. how we are dealing with the _ budget, prime minister. how we are dealing with the issue _ budget, prime minister. how we are dealing with the issue of— budget, prime minister. how we are dealing with the issue of a _ budget, prime minister. how we are dealing with the issue of a slowing i dealing with the issue of a slowing economy and this is important because we also needed to act, laura, this is why we had to act, and that's the point i want to make clear and we had to act as well on taxation to make sure people weren't paying those national insurance rises going into this winter and we also had to act on other areas of taxation to make sure the economy didn't slow down any further and this is important because what the government is trying to avoid is a

serious economic slowdown that would have real difficulties for people, now i did want to answer your question that you asked me about... a direct impact... the question that you asked me about... a direct impact. . ._ question that you asked me about... a direct impact. . .— a direct impact... the issues we've seen this week _ a direct impact... the issues we've seen this week so _ a direct impact... the issues we've seen this week so i _ a direct impact... the issues we've seen this week so i am _ a direct impact... the issues we've seen this week so i am afraid - a direct impact... the issues we've seen this week so i am afraid there is an issue that interest rates are going up around the world and we do have to face that and we do have to, but i do want to say to people, i understand their worries about what has happened this week and i do, i do stand by the package we announced and i stand by the fact that we announce it quickly because we had to act, but i do accept we should have laid the ground better, i do accept that... have laid the ground better, i do accept that. . ._ have laid the ground better, i do accetthat... ., , , ., accept that... you accept you should la the accept that... you accept you should lay the ground _ accept that... you accept you should lay the ground better. _ accept that... you accept you should lay the ground better. and _ accept that... you accept you should lay the ground better. and i've - lay the ground better. and i've learned from _ lay the ground better. and i've learned from that, _ lay the ground better. and i've learned from that, i've - lay the ground better. and i'vej learned from that, i've learned lay the ground better. and i've - learned from that, i've learned from that and i'll make sure that in future we do a betterjob of laying the ground. future we do a better 'ob of laying the ground.— future we do a better 'ob of laying the tround. ., ., the ground. laying the ground, fine, ou've the ground. laying the ground, fine, you've acknowledged _ the ground. laying the ground, fine, you've acknowledged there - the ground. laying the ground, fine, you've acknowledged there was - the ground. laying the ground, fine, you've acknowledged there was a - you've acknowledged there was a problem with communication, you should have explained things better, but i want to show our audience and

you what actually happened because this is notjust a global problem, it's not arguablyjust this is notjust a global problem, it's not arguably just a this is notjust a global problem, it's not arguablyjust a problem of communications, it's a problem of the consequence of the decision that you made. if we look at this graph and you can look at it over there, prime minister, you can see what happened to the cost of government borrowing on the day that you made that announcement. it spiked and it didn'tjust spike, it's predicted to stay high for long. now, the reason that matters is when it costs the government more to borrow, everything costs more, everybody feels the increase in interest rates, whether that's on government on mortgages come on people's rents, this is a direct consequence of the decisions you made last week and interest rate increases are going to mean pressure on people's mortgages and less money for public services. we've been in a very long period of low interest rates and the fact is that due to the war in ukraine, perpetrated by russia, interest rates are rising around the world

and we've seen that in the united states and we've seen that in europe, so i don't accept that part of your argument. now, europe, so i don't accept that part of yourargument. now, on europe, so i don't accept that part of your argument. now, on the subject of government borrowing... will come to that in a second but on that graph, that is a spike in the cost of borrowing for the government which feeds through to everybody else as a direct result of the decisions that you announced on september the 23rd. this is not about what was going on in the war in ukraine already, we know that thatis in ukraine already, we know that that is a huge challenge, but look at the direct result on that day, and the chief economist at the bank of england... and the chief economist at the bank of england- - -— of england... that is not the same as interest — of england... that is not the same as interest rates, _ of england... that is not the same as interest rates, laura, _ of england... that is not the same as interest rates, laura, so - of england... that is not the same as interest rates, laura, so i - of england... that is not the same as interest rates, laura, so i thinkj as interest rates, laura, so i think the audience should be clear that thatis the audience should be clear that that is not the same as interest rates. ~ . ., , that is not the same as interest rates. e . ., , ., rates. which all feeds through. which are _ rates. which all feeds through. which are rightly _ rates. which all feeds through. which are rightly set _ rates. which all feeds through. which are rightly set by - rates. which all feeds through. which are rightly set by the - rates. which all feeds through. i which are rightly set by the bank rates. which all feeds through. - which are rightly set by the bank of england. it’s which are rightly set by the bank of entland. �*, ., england. it's about the cost of government — england. it's about the cost of government borrowing - england. it's about the cost of government borrowing and . england. it's about the cost of. government borrowing and that england. it's about the cost of- government borrowing and that feeds through to so many things and there are problems with countries around the world but the chief economist has said the rise in borrowing undoubtedly had a uk specific

component, standard and pause, one of the world's biggest credit rating agencies, put the government on notice saying the country might have a credit downgrade, you can'tjust say this is something that's happening around the world. ida. say this is something that's happening around the world. no, and i think we've — happening around the world. no, and i think we've made _ happening around the world. no, and i think we've made the _ happening around the world. no, and i think we've made the right - i think we've made the right decision to borrow more this winter to deal with the extraordinary circumstances we face. to to deal with the extraordinary circumstances we face. to deal also with the tax — circumstances we face. to deal also with the tax cuts _ circumstances we face. to deal also with the tax cuts you _ circumstances we face. to deal also with the tax cuts you gave - circumstances we face. to deal also with the tax cuts you gave people. i with the tax cuts you gave people. the alternative, laura, let's rememberwhat the alternative, laura, let's remember what the alternative was, the alternative was people would be paying up to £6,000 on their energy bills, inflation would be 5% higher than would be otherwise, and we would be facing a worse economic slowdown. that was the alternative. we are not living in a perfect world. we are living in a very difficult world where governments around the world are making tough decisions. find around the world are making tough decisions. �* , ., �* , ., around the world are making tough i decisions._ and decisions. and you've explained. and i believe it was _ decisions. and you've explained. and i believe it was the _ decisions. and you've explained. and i believe it was the right _ decisions. and you've explained. and i believe it was the right decision - i believe it was the right decision to increase borrowing this winter. we have the second lowest borrowing in the g7 so we currently borrow less tan france, we borrow less than

the united states, we borrow less than canada, we borrow less than japan and i think it's important people understand that now of course... and of course we need to bring down borrowing as a proportion of gdp over the medium term and i have a plan to do that, but what would be wrong, what would be wrong, laura, is for us not to have acted and forfamilies to laura, is for us not to have acted and for families to be facing those appalling bills this winter, for the economy to be slowing more and for us to be facing businesses going out of business and the uk not being competitive. of business and the uk not being competitive-— of business and the uk not being competitive. you say this is about ttettin competitive. you say this is about getting the _ competitive. you say this is about getting the economy _ competitive. you say this is about getting the economy growing... i | getting the economy growing... i accept... getting the economy growing. .. i accept--- lt— getting the economy growing... i accept... it was _ getting the economy growing... i accept... it was horror _ getting the economy growing... i accept... it was horror on - getting the economy growing... i accept... it was horror on the - accept... it was horror on the pension _ accept... it was horror on the pension markets. _ accept. .. it was horror on the pension markets. i— accept. .. it was horror on the pension markets. i think- accept... it was horror on the pension markets. i think we i accept... it was horror on the - pension markets. i think we should have laid the _ pension markets. i think we should have laid the ground _ pension markets. i think we should have laid the ground better- pension markets. i think we should have laid the ground better but - pension markets. i think we should have laid the ground better but we| have laid the ground better but we have laid the ground better but we have been dealing with a unique set of circumstances here in the united kingdom which i think the public can appreciate. i want to reassure people that we have a clear plan

moving forward, both to deal with the energy crisis and to deal with inflation but also to get the economy growing and to put us on a good long—term footing and what we also announced last week was plans to speed up rail projects, speed up broadband projects, get britain moving, and moving us towards the high growth, low tax economy that we need to be in order to fund our public services and that's what's important to me. that's what's important to me. that's what's important to me.— important to me. that's what's important to me. and you've made that very clear. _ important to me. and you've made that very clear, getting _ important to me. and you've made that very clear, getting the - important to me. and you've made i that very clear, getting the economy growing is your priority but what many of your mp5 fear is because interest rates are on the way up, because the cost of government borrowing is going up, as we've seen this morning, the fear is that the consequences will be more taxpayers up consequences will be more taxpayers up for cash will be eaten up, there will be less money for everything else. are you going to cut public spending? i

argument and i will do what i can to win hearts and minds of colleagues across the conservative party because i believe we need to grow the size of the pie. that's fundamentally what we need to do as a country and we have had two decades of low growth. low growth means people are not able to get the jobs they deserve. it means lower wages and less money for public services. �* wages and less money for public services. . , ., wages and less money for public services. �* , ., ., wages and less money for public services. . , ., ., ., wages and less money for public services. �* , ., ., ., . services. are you going to cut tublic services. are you going to cut public spending? _ services. are you going to cut public spending? that - services. are you going to cut public spending? that is - services. are you going to cut public spending? that is at i services. are you going to cut| public spending? that is at the services. are you going to cut - public spending? that is at the core of economic — public spending? that is at the core of economic policy _ public spending? that is at the core of economic policy stop _ public spending? that is at the core of economic policy stop what - public spending? that is at the core of economic policy stop what are i public spending? that is at the core i of economic policy stop what are you going to cut public spending. simon clarke are one of your ministers, said this week that we are looking at a state that is extremely large and we need to make sure it is in full alignment with a lower tax economy. full alignment with a lower tax econom . ~ ., full alignment with a lower tax economy-— full alignment with a lower tax econom .~ ., ., , ., ., i] economy. what does that mean? i believe in getting _ economy. what does that mean? i believe in getting value _ economy. what does that mean? i believe in getting value for - economy. what does that mean? i believe in getting value for money | believe in getting value for money for the taxpayer. that is important to me. the way we are going to improve our economy is, for example, helping more people getting to work. that saves the government money but

also contributes to the economy. what we will have his a long—term plan for reform, helping more people getting to work. make our economy more productive, get better value for money for the taxpayer. i have asked you — for money for the taxpayer. i have asked you if _ for money for the taxpayer. i have asked you if you — for money for the taxpayer. i have asked you if you will— for money for the taxpayer. i have asked you if you will cut _ for money for the taxpayer. i have asked you if you will cut spending | asked you if you will cut spending on public services? will you cut spending on public services? what on public services? will you cut spending on public services? what i will do is make _ spending on public services? what i will do is make sure _ spending on public services? what i will do is make sure we _ spending on public services? what i will do is make sure we get - spending on public services? what i will do is make sure we get value i will do is make sure we get value for money for the taxpayer but i am very, very committed to making sure we have excellent front line public services. i'm not going to go into what the chancellor will announce in his medium—term fiscal plan. he will announce that very shortly and it will come together with an obr forecast. that is very important. but my approach is to help people get through this very difficult winter, and it's a problem we are facing internationally... it is t uite facing internationally... it is tuite a facing internationally... it is quite a straightforward question. are you going to cut public spending on public services was that i have asked you a couple of times. normally the fact you don't answer

it directly implies you are going to. ., ., , �* it directly implies you are going to. ., ., ,�* �* it directly implies you are going to. ., ., ,�* , to. no, it doesn't. i can't exactly set out what _ to. no, it doesn't. i can't exactly set out what will _ to. no, it doesn't. i can't exactly set out what will be _ to. no, it doesn't. i can't exactly set out what will be in _ to. no, it doesn't. i can't exactly set out what will be in this i to. no, it doesn't. i can't exactly set out what will be in this plan. | set out what will be in this plan. what i can promise is that we will reduce debt as a proportion of gdp. by reduce debt as a proportion of gdp. by when? the reduce debt as a proportion of gdp. b when? ,., by when? the point in the medium term, and by when? the point in the medium term. and we _ by when? the point in the medium term, and we will— by when? the point in the medium term, and we will set _ by when? the point in the medium term, and we will set out - by when? the point in the medium term, and we will set out exactly i term, and we will set out exactly what that is when we put out the medium fiscal plan, but the point about reducing debt as a proportion of gdp, it all depends on how fast the economy is growing. the key thing is to get the economy growing faster so that the pie is bigger and we can afford more money for great public services as well as helping people keep more money. you public services as well as helping people keep more money. you have an additional challenge _ people keep more money. you have an additional challenge because _ additional challenge because inflation means things are getting more expensive across the board, more expensive across the board, more expensive across the board, more expensive for everyone watching this morning, everyone trying to run a business, it means inflation makes things more expensive for government departments. will you increase public spending for different

departments so they can cope with inflation at different levels because they are dealing with a real terms cut. , , , ., . terms cut. this is why our package is so important — terms cut. this is why our package is so important because _ terms cut. this is why our package is so important because the i terms cut. this is why our package | is so important because the energy announcement we made is estimated to reduce inflation by up to 5%. in the short-term. _ reduce inflation by up to 5%. in the short-term, that _ reduce inflation by up to 5%. in the short-term, that might _ reduce inflation by up to 5%. in the short-term, that might not - reduce inflation by up to 5%. in thej short-term, that might not happen reduce inflation by up to 5%. in the short—term, that might not happen in the long term and some economists have questioned that. you can't be sure of that long term. taste have questioned that. you can't be sure of that long term.— sure of that long term. we expect inflation to _ sure of that long term. we expect inflation to peak— sure of that long term. we expect inflation to peak as _ sure of that long term. we expect inflation to peak as the _ sure of that long term. we expect inflation to peak as the cost i sure of that long term. we expect inflation to peak as the cost of i inflation to peak as the cost of increased energy prices flow through the system and we are expecting inflation to peak. i am not going to write future budgets on your show, much as you would like me to do, laura, but the core principle i believe in is maximising growth in the economy and that's why we are pulling all the levers on everything from making our tax system simpler and lower to also getting projects done quicker, you know, driving reform in our economy as well as we make our public sector more efficient. but i am absolutely

committed to delivering great public services for people. that is very important. services for people. that is very important-— services for people. that is very im-ortant. ., �*, ., important. that's not the same as sa int important. that's not the same as saying you — important. that's not the same as saying you will — important. that's not the same as saying you will make _ important. that's not the same as saying you will make sure - saying you will make sure departments have enough money to combat inflation and is not the same as saying you will cut public spending. i as saying you will cut public spending-— as saying you will cut public s-tendin. , ., , spending. i believe in outcomes. the health secretary _ spending. i believe in outcomes. the health secretary has _ spending. i believe in outcomes. the health secretary has committed i health secretary has committed people will be able to see their gp within two weeks. that's what we are focused on. we are focused on how does it feel for a patient? how it feel for me as a woman walking down the street question of do i feel safe at night? those are the things i am thinking about as prime minister and that's why we are focused on delivering better public services. i think quite often, frankly, the debate focuses too much on the input and not enough and how it actually feels for people in britain, and they want public services and are focused on delivering for them.- services and are focused on delivering for them. let's talk about one _ delivering for them. let's talk about one of _ delivering for them. let's talk about one of those _ delivering for them. let's talk about one of those specifics i delivering for them. let's talk i about one of those specifics and one of those real—life consequences for

government decisions. borisjohnson promised he would raise benefit payments in line with inflation. do you stand by that and will you? this is something _ you stand by that and will you? try 3 is something the department for work and pensions secretary is looking at at the moment. she will make a determination on that and we will announce that this autumn. so as prime minister _ announce that this autumn. so as prime minister you _ announce that this autumn. so as prime minister you will— announce that this autumn. so as prime minister you will not i prime minister you will not guarantee this morning that you will keep boris johnson's guarantee this morning that you will keep borisjohnson's promised to keep borisjohnson's promised to keep benefits in line with inflation? the consequence of that, for many who rely on benefits and most people who claim benefits are working, they will see a cut in their income. let's be clear on what that means. their income. let's be clear on what that means-— that means. this is something the department _ that means. this is something the department for — that means. this is something the department for work _ that means. this is something the department for work and - that means. this is something the| department for work and pensions secretary will look at. it's worth saying on the energy package, not only are we making sure the average household doesn't pay bills of more than around £2500, we are also, for the poorest households, providing an extra £1200 so there is significant support going into the poorest households this winter. i will

always make sure, laura, that we protect the make. what about pensions, will they go up in line — make. what about pensions, will they go up in line with _ make. what about pensions, will they go up in line with inflation? _ make. what about pensions, will they go up in line with inflation? i - make. what about pensions, will they go up in line with inflation? i have i go up in line with inflation? i have committed _ go up in line with inflation? i have committed to _ go up in line with inflation? i have committed to the _ go up in line with inflation? i have committed to the triple _ go up in line with inflation? i have committed to the triple lock. i go up in line with inflation? i have committed to the triple lock. thatj committed to the triple lock. that means pensions _ committed to the triple lock. that means pensions will _ committed to the triple lock. that means pensions will rise in lock step with inflation. taste means pensions will rise in lock step with inflation.— means pensions will rise in lock step with inflation. we are trying to tet step with inflation. we are trying to get every _ step with inflation. we are trying to get every single _ step with inflation. we are trying to get every single detail- step with inflation. we are trying to get every single detail of- step with inflation. we are trying to get every single detail of the i to get every single detail of the plan on this show. it is to get every single detail of the plan on this show.— plan on this show. it is an opportunity _ plan on this show. it is an opportunity and _ plan on this show. it is an opportunity and why i plan on this show. it is an opportunity and why you i plan on this show. it is an i opportunity and why you are plan on this show. it is an - opportunity and why you are here. one of the big, bold decisions you have made us prime minister, which you have made a commitment on is to scrap the top rate of tax. there has been a lot of controversy in this policy will stop some people in your party love it and some people in your own party do not love it. opposition parties have decried it and there has been controversy around the decision. are you absolutely committed to abolishing the 45% tax rate for the wealthiest in the country? the 4596 tax rate for the wealthiest in the country?— in the country? yes. and it is part of an overall _ in the country? yes. and it is part of an overall package _ in the country? yes. and it is part of an overall package of _ in the country? yes. and it is part of an overall package of making i in the country? yes. and it is part i of an overall package of making our tax system simpler and lower. it is

worth noting that in the package we announced the vast majority of that package is the energy package. taste package is the energy package. we have talked about that, but i want to talk about... the have talked about that, but i want to talk about. . ._ to talk about... the 45p rate actually raises _ to talk about... the 45p rate actually raises very - to talk about... the 45p rate actually raises very little i to talk about... the 45p rate actually raises very little and makes the tax system more complicated. we need to move away from the idea that everything is about how we redistribute resources. we also need to make sure that we have a tax system that is competitive internationally and is helping us bring in the investment and get people into work. you have said getting — and get people into work. you have said getting the _ and get people into work. you have said getting the economy _ and get people into work. you have said getting the economy going i and get people into work. you have said getting the economy going is i said getting the economy going is your priority. did you discuss scrapping the top rate with your whole cabinet? ida. scrapping the top rate with your whole cabinet?— scrapping the top rate with your whole cabinet? ., �* ., , whole cabinet? no, we didn't. it was a decision that _ whole cabinet? no, we didn't. it was a decision that the _ whole cabinet? no, we didn't. it was a decision that the chancellor - whole cabinet? no, we didn't. it was a decision that the chancellor made. | a decision that the chancellor made. do you think that is the right way to go about developing what has become a very controversial policy? you say it doesn't cost much money

but it is a big decision, isn't it? if you had been in borisjohnson prospect cabinet and he had announced something like that without discussing it first? taste without discussing it first? we committed. — without discussing it first? , committed, and i committed during the leadership campaign, to make our system more competitive, to lower our taxes and to simplify our taxes. i think that is fundamentally important. when budgets are developed, they are developed in a very confidential way. they are very market sensitive. of course the cabinet is briefed but it is never the case on budgets that they are something that is created by the whole cabinet. but the principles are extremely clear.— whole cabinet. but the principles are extremely clear. perhaps some of our are extremely clear. perhaps some of your cabinet — are extremely clear. perhaps some of your cabinet might _ are extremely clear. perhaps some of your cabinet might have _ are extremely clear. perhaps some of your cabinet might have raised - are extremely clear. perhaps some of your cabinet might have raised what i your cabinet might have raised what some of your other colleagues who are not in the cabinet have raised, the optics of all of this. to viewers listening this morning, you will not commit to raising benefits in line with inflation and if you don't that'll mean a cut in income

for some of the least well off in the country. you will commit to cutting tax for the most wealthy. how do you think that looks? lerrel’heztt cutting tax for the most wealthy. how do you think that looks? what i care about. — how do you think that looks? what i care about. is _ how do you think that looks? what i care about, is about _ how do you think that looks? what i care about, is about making - how do you think that looks? what i care about, is about making our i care about, is about making our country successful and making economy successful. and i do think there has been too much focus in politics about the optics, on how things look, as opposed to the impact they have on our economy. the fact is, laura, we have had two decades of relatively low growth. decisions have been made, historically quite often on the basis of, we can't do this because x and y will be annoyed. that leads to and y will be annoyed. that leads to a failure to make decisions over time and we have ended up with a very complicated tax system. we have ended up with our tax system and our tax burden at a 70 year high and that has not led to economic growth. we do need to make, laura, tough

decisions. , �* , . , ., we do need to make, laura, tough decisions. ,�* , . , ., ., decisions. doesn't perception matter in tolitics? decisions. doesn't perception matter in politics? lt— decisions. doesn't perception matter in politics? it does _ decisions. doesn't perception matter in politics? it does matter. _ decisions. doesn't perception matter in politics? it does matter. how- decisions. doesn't perception matter in politics? it does matter. how do i in politics? it does matter. how do ou think in politics? it does matter. how do you think some _ in politics? it does matter. how do you think some people _ in politics? it does matter. how do you think some people will - in politics? it does matter. how do you think some people will think. you think some people will think this morning when they read that kwasi kwarteng, the chancellor, was at a drinks party on the day of the mini budget, with hedge fund managers, some of whom will then have gone on to gain from a fall in the value of the pound? the chancellor _ the value of the pound? the chancellor meets _ the value of the pound? tue: chancellor meets business people all the time. that is hisjob. did chancellor meets business people all the time. that is hisjob.— the time. that is his 'ob. did you know he the time. that is his 'ob. did you knew he was t the time. that is his 'ob. did you know he was going i the time. that is his job. did you know he was going to _ the time. that is his job. did you know he was going to do - the time. that is his job. did you know he was going to do that? i | know he was going to do that? i don't manage kwasi kwarteng's diary, believe me. fist don't manage kwasi kwarteng's diary, believe me. fit a don't manage kwasi kwarteng's diary, believe me. �* ., don't manage kwasi kwarteng's diary, believe me. . . ., , believe me. at a time when many teo . le believe me. at a time when many people are _ believe me. at a time when many people are struggling, _ believe me. at a time when many people are struggling, and - believe me. at a time when many people are struggling, and you i believe me. at a time when many| people are struggling, and you say that you want to reassure them at a hard time and in a hard winter, would you say to him, don't do that again, because it might give people the impression that you care more about people in the city who have a lot of money who will gain from the scrapping of the top rate of tax, then the people you have mentioned who you say you want to reassure and help. would it have been better if help. would it have been better if he didn't go? i

help. would it have been better if he didn't go?— help. would it have been better if he didn't to? , , ., he didn't go? i get up every morning as prime minister— he didn't go? i get up every morning as prime minister thinking, - he didn't go? i get up every morning as prime minister thinking, how i he didn't go? i get up every morning as prime minister thinking, how can | as prime minister thinking, how can i make our country more successful and how can we reassure people and how can we help people get through these very difficult times. we do face difficult times. the war in ukraine is regrettably continuing. vladimir putin is continuing with his sabre rattling rhetoric. we do face very difficult circumstances. that's what i'm focused on. that's what the chancellor is focused on and that is what the whole cabinet is focused on. you and that is what the whole cabinet is focused on.— is focused on. you admitted this mornint is focused on. you admitted this morning there _ is focused on. you admitted this morning there were _ is focused on. you admitted this morning there were mistakes i is focused on. you admitted this | morning there were mistakes and is focused on. you admitted this i morning there were mistakes and you should have prepared people for your announcements. was one mistake not publishing the forecast from the office for budget responsibility, the independent number crunches to check the government prospect sums. i worked with them when i was chief secretary of the treasury, and the issueis secretary of the treasury, and the issue is that it takes a while to produce those forecasts.- issue is that it takes a while to produce those forecasts. hang on, the have produce those forecasts. hang on, they have something _ produce those forecasts. hang on, they have something ready - produce those forecasts. hang on, they have something ready to - produce those forecasts. hang on, they have something ready to go. | produce those forecasts. hang on, i they have something ready to go. we

know that, and there is something you could have put in the public domain that would have given people an idea. the domain that would have given people an idea. , ., , , domain that would have given people an idea. , .,, , ., an idea. the problem is that there is a process _ an idea. the problem is that there is a process you — an idea. the problem is that there is a process you need _ an idea. the problem is that there is a process you need to _ an idea. the problem is that there is a process you need to go - an idea. the problem is that there l is a process you need to go through where the policies are fed in and the forecasters then make their forecast and it is developed over time to stop we civilly didn't have time to stop we civilly didn't have time to stop we civilly didn't have time to go through the process. because it was a very urgent situation. i go back to this point, that we were facing a winter where people would have been paying bills of up to £6,000, where we would have seen inflation 5% higher than it otherwise would have been. and we've had to have seen a more slowing economy and i couldn't let that happen. economy and i couldn't let that ha en. �* , ., economy and i couldn't let that ha--en. �* ., ., ., happen. and you have made that oint. i happen. and you have made that point- i do _ happen. and you have made that point. i do want _ happen. and you have made that point. i do want to _ happen. and you have made that point. i do want to work - happen. and you have made that point. i do want to work with - happen. and you have made that point. i do want to work with the | point. i do want to work with the obr, and point. i do want to work with the obr. and we _ point. i do want to work with the obr, and we had _ point. i do want to work with the obr, and we had a _ point. i do want to work with the obr, and we had a very - point. i do want to work with the obr, and we had a very good i point. i do want to work with the - obr, and we had a very good meeting with them this week. they will be a full part of the medium term fiscal plan. what i couldn't do, and what i absolutely refused to do, is allow people to go into this winter worrying about their fuel bills.

that was my priority.- worrying about their fuel bills. that was my priority. there are calls now _ that was my priority. there are calls now for — that was my priority. there are calls now for you _ that was my priority. there are calls now for you to _ that was my priority. there are calls now for you to publish - that was my priority. there are l calls now for you to publish what you have already from the obr, those forecasts. the opposition and some people in your own party are calling for it so will you publish it before the end of november? m0. for it so will you publish it before the end of november?— for it so will you publish it before the end of november? no, for the followin: the end of november? no, for the following reason. _ the end of november? no, for the following reason. it _ the end of november? no, for the following reason. it is _ the end of november? no, for the following reason. it is not - the end of november? no, for the following reason. it is not yet - following reason. it is not yet ready. it has to go through this process. we ready. it has to go through this rocess. ~ ., ready. it has to go through this rocess. ~ . ., . ., ready. it has to go through this - process._ there process. we have that clear. there is no point — process. we have that clear. there is no point in _ process. we have that clear. there is no point in publishing _ process. we have that clear. there l is no point in publishing something thatis is no point in publishing something that is not ready. you is no point in publishing something that is not ready.— that is not ready. you have made that is not ready. you have made that very clear. _ that is not ready. you have made that very clear. what _ that is not ready. you have made that very clear. what is _ that is not ready. you have made that very clear. what is in - that is not ready. you have made that very clear. what is in a - that is not ready. you have made that very clear. what is in a lot i that is not ready. you have made l that very clear. what is in a lot of people doesn't mind is this morning is how they feel they have been affected by the decisions you have made. we know hundreds of mortgage products were taken off the market and people are worried about interest rates. you have mentioned your energy bill but we had an e—mailfrom a viewer last your energy bill but we had an e—mail from a viewer last night saying, we are grateful for the help we have had with the energy bills but the effect of the mini budget on mortgages has meant hundreds more each month for us in mortgage

payments. your energy help may help millions of people. it may be generous. but the cost is being wiped out for other people by costs on the increase in mortgages. what is the logic of giving people money to help with their energy bills if they then lose some of it because their mortgage goes through the roof because of the consequence of the decisions you have made? i understand that people are worried and people are struggling. it's a very difficult time. we have to look at the mortgage issue separately, which is the bank of england set interest rates, not the government. this is rightly been independent since 1997 and we are facing a world in which interest rates are rising. in fact, our interest rate, set by the bank of england, are lower than those of the federal reserve, lower than those other countries. [30 those of the federal reserve, lower than those other countries.- than those other countries. do you acknowledge _ than those other countries. do you acknowledge some _ than those other countries. do you acknowledge some people - than those other countries. do you acknowledge some people are - than those other countries. do you i acknowledge some people are going than those other countries. do you - acknowledge some people are going to be worth off because their mortgage has gone up by more than their energy bill has been controlled by

the government? we energy bill has been controlled by the government?— energy bill has been controlled by the government? we want to do what we can to help — the government? we want to do what we can to help homeowners. - the government? we want to do what we can to help homeowners. we've i we can to help homeowners. we've helped with stamp duty. that was one of the announcements on the budget but ultimately interest rates are a matter for the independent bank of england and the independent bank of england and the independent bank of england do have to look at what is happening around the world. mortgages are not set by the bank of england, mortgage rates are a product of all sorts of factors including... fix, product of all sorts of factors including. . ._ including... a key factor, the interest rates _ including... a key factor, the interest rates are _ including... a key factor, the interest rates are a - including... a key factor, the interest rates are a key - including... a key factor, the | interest rates are a key factor including... a key factor, the i interest rates are a key factor in mortgage rates and those are set by the bank of england and they are somewhat dependent on the global market, so, laura, we are not dealing with the issues we are dealing with the issues we are dealing with the issues we are dealing with in isolation, we are dealing with in isolation, we are dealing with in isolation, we are dealing with these issues in a world where there is a slowing global economy, where there are rising interest rates, where there is huge inflation, mainly driven by energy caused by vladimir putin's war, and l, caused by vladimir putin's war, and i, as prime minister, and the chancellor, have to deal with that in the way that we think will help

people in britain most get through these very difficult short—term circumstances but put our country on the best long—term footing and that is what, that is what the package... we are running out of time and you've made that point. how many people voted for your plan? what you've made that point. how many people voted for your plan? what do ou mean people voted for your plan? what do you mean by — people voted for your plan? what do you mean by that? _ people voted for your plan? what do you mean by that? you _ people voted for your plan? what do you mean by that? you set - people voted for your plan? what do you mean by that? you set out i people voted for your plan? what do you mean by that? you set out a i you mean by that? you set out a significant _ you mean by that? you set out a significant change _ you mean by that? you set out a significant change of _ you mean by that? you set out a significant change of direction i you mean by that? you set out a i significant change of direction from the conservative government that you were part of for many years, but how many people voted for you to do that? ., , if ' many people voted for you to do that? ., , ii" ., ., that? people in 2019 who voted conservative _ that? people in 2019 who voted conservative voted _ that? people in 2019 who voted conservative voted for - that? people in 2019 who voted conservative voted for a - that? people in 2019 who voted i conservative voted for a successful country where we are levelling up all parts of the country and where we are driving growth, enterprise and opportunity. now, any government has to deal with the circumstances it faces and we faced this situation of, you know, which was unforeseen, huge energy costs, rising inflation due to the war in ukraine and the

aftermath of... but due to the war in ukraine and the aftermath of. . ._ due to the war in ukraine and the aftermath of... but you know there are a small — aftermath of... but you know there are a small number _ aftermath of... but you know there are a small number of _ aftermath of... but you know there are a small number of people i aftermath of... but you know there are a small number of people in i aftermath of... but you know there| are a small number of people in the conservative party, tens of thousands, ratherthan conservative party, tens of thousands, rather than the whole country, voted for you in the leadership contest, perfectly legitimately, but do you feel you've put the country on a path it didn't ask for because you believe it will lead to growth? what happens if it doesn't work?— doesn't work? well, what people voted for in _ doesn't work? well, what people voted for in 2019, _ doesn't work? well, what people voted for in 2019, when - doesn't work? well, what people voted for in 2019, when they i doesn't work? well, what people i voted for in 2019, when they voted for conservative, sometimes for the first time in many years, as they voted for a different future. they voted for a different future. they voted for a different future. they voted for investment into their towns and cities, they voted for higher wages, they voted for economic growth, and that is what our plan will deliver. i'm confident it will deliver, i'm confident on what we are doing on speeding up road projects, unleashing investment from the city, reducing taxes, will deliver that. from the city, reducing taxes, will deliverthat. i'm from the city, reducing taxes, will deliver that. i'm not saying it's not going to be difficult, we do

face a very turbulent and stormy time, but it will deliver, it will deliver on the promises we made, and in the circumstances i'm very clear that we had to act quickly to get this plan going. ok. that we had to act quickly to get this plan going-— that we had to act quickly to get this [an anoin. ~ , this plan going. 0k, prime minister, thank ou this plan going. ok, prime minister, thank you for— this plan going. 0k, prime minister, thank you forjoining _ this plan going. 0k, prime minister, thank you forjoining us _ this plan going. 0k, prime minister, thank you forjoining us in _ thank you forjoining us in birmingham this morning. just to say — thanks for sticking with us during some technical glitches during that interview. let's hear what our panel had to say. what did you make of liz truss, michael gove, some interesting nuggets in there?— michael gove, some interesting nuggets in there? there certainly was and it was _ nuggets in there? there certainly was and it was right _ nuggets in there? there certainly was and it was right for _ nuggets in there? there certainly was and it was right for the i nuggets in there? there certainly| was and it was right for the prime minister to acknowledge that the fiscal event needs to be revisited, there needs to be a recognition of mistakes, but it's still the case on what the prime minister said that she was very clear and authoritative, but it still the case that there is an inadequate realisation at the top of government of the scale of change required, so, yes, the energy package was the most important thing in the fiscal event but broadly, 35% of the additional money that we are borrowing is not

to cut energy costs, it is for unfunded tax cuts.- to cut energy costs, it is for unfunded tax cuts. �* , ., u, , unfunded tax cuts. and you can send about that- — unfunded tax cuts. and you can send about that. profoundly. _ unfunded tax cuts. and you can send about that. profoundly. profoundly l about that. profoundly. profoundly concerned? _ about that. profoundly. profoundly concerned? yes, _ about that. profoundly. profoundly concerned? yes, because - about that. profoundly. profoundly concerned? yes, because there i about that. profoundly. profoundly| concerned? yes, because there are two thin . s concerned? yes, because there are two things that _ concerned? yes, because there are two things that are _ concerned? yes, because there are two things that are problematic, i concerned? yes, because there are two things that are problematic, to | two things that are problematic, to major things that are problematic with the fiscal event. the first is the sheer risk of using borrowed money to fund tax cuts. that is not conservative. and the second thing is the decision to cut the 45p rate andindeed is the decision to cut the 45p rate and indeed at the same time to change the law which governs how bankers are paid in the city of london. ultimately at a time when people are suffering and you are quite right to point out the concerns that people have notjust over mortgages but over benefits, when you have additional billions of pounds in play, to have us your principal decision the headline tax move, cutting tax for the wealthiest, that is a display of the wrong values. it

wealthiest, that is a display of the wrong values-— wealthiest, that is a display of the wrong values. it sounds right now if thins wrong values. it sounds right now if things carry — wrong values. it sounds right now if things carry on _ wrong values. it sounds right now if things carry on as — wrong values. it sounds right now if things carry on as they _ wrong values. it sounds right now if things carry on as they are - wrong values. it sounds right now if things carry on as they are you i things carry on as they are you won't be able to vote for these measures as a conservative mp? i5 won't be able to vote for these measures as a conservative mp? is a measures as a conservative mp? is a aood thin measures as a conservative mp? i3 —. good thing and there are many good things that liz truss said and i welcome the broader point is about growth but the critical thing is liz has acknowledged that with hindsight, with welcome hindsight, that mistakes were made in the preparation... that mistakes were made in the preparation- - -— preparation... you are carefully avoidin: preparation... you are carefully avoiding my _ preparation... you are carefully avoiding my question _ preparation... you are carefully avoiding my question about i preparation... you are carefully i avoiding my question about whether or not you will vote for this in the house of commons. i or not you will vote for this in the house of commons.— or not you will vote for this in the house of commons. i don't believe it's riuht. house of commons. i don't believe it's right- that _ house of commons. i don't believe it's right. that sounds _ house of commons. i don't believe it's right. that sounds like - house of commons. i don't believe it's right. that sounds like a - house of commons. i don't believe it's right. that sounds like a no. i it's right. that sounds like a no. sharon white, _ it's right. that sounds like a no. sharon white, you _ it's right. that sounds like a no. sharon white, you sounded i it's right. that sounds like a no. i sharon white, you sounded pretty concerned, has that reassured you? the big issue is even with the energy— the big issue is even with the energy package _ the big issue is even with the energy package which - the big issue is even with the energy package which is i the big issue is even with the energy package which is veryl energy package which is very welcome, _ energy package which is very welcome, i_ energy package which is very welcome, i think— energy package which is very welcome, i think we - energy package which is very welcome, i think we had i energy package which is very welcome, i think we had a i energy package which is very. welcome, i think we had a good debate — welcome, i think we had a good debate on — welcome, i think we had a good debate on this, _ welcome, i think we had a good debate on this, is _ welcome, i think we had a good debate on this, is that - welcome, i think we had a good debate on this, is that you've i welcome, i think we had a good. debate on this, is that you've got people _ debate on this, is that you've got people and — debate on this, is that you've got people and businesses _ debate on this, is that you've got people and businesses and - debate on this, is that you've got i people and businesses and households who are _ people and businesses and households who are still_ people and businesses and households who are still going _ people and businesses and households who are still going to _ people and businesses and households who are still going to be _ people and businesses and households who are still going to be facing - people and businesses and households who are still going to be facing a - who are still going to be facing a real cost— who are still going to be facing a real cost of— who are still going to be facing a real cost of living _ who are still going to be facing a real cost of living squeeze, i who are still going to be facing a real cost of living squeeze, so i. real cost of living squeeze, so i think_ real cost of living squeeze, so i think about _ real cost of living squeeze, so i think about my— real cost of living squeeze, so i think about my own _ real cost of living squeeze, so i think about my own business i real cost of living squeeze, so i i think about my own business and we are unusual— think about my own business and we are unusual as— think about my own business and we are unusual as a _ think about my own business and we are unusual as a partnership - think about my own business and we | are unusual as a partnership because we are _ are unusual as a partnership because we are owned — are unusual as a partnership because we are owned by— are unusual as a partnership because we are owned by our— are unusual as a partnership because we are owned by our employees, - are unusual as a partnership because we are owned by our employees, our partners. _ we are owned by our employees, our partners. we — we are owned by our employees, our partners. we are— we are owned by our employees, our partners, we are stepping _ we are owned by our employees, our partners, we are stepping in - we are owned by our employees, our partners, we are stepping in as- we are owned by our employees, our partners, we are stepping in as a - partners, we are stepping in as a business — partners, we are stepping in as a business to— partners, we are stepping in as a business to provide _ partners, we are stepping in as a business to provide cost - partners, we are stepping in as a business to provide cost of- partners, we are stepping in as a business to provide cost of living i business to provide cost of living support. —

business to provide cost of living support. so— business to provide cost of living support. so we _ business to provide cost of living support, so we are _ business to provide cost of living support, so we are giving - business to provide cost of living support, so we are giving everyi support, so we are giving every partner— support, so we are giving every partner £500 _ support, so we are giving every partner £500 each... _ support, so we are giving every partner £500 each... 'l'o - support, so we are giving every partner £500 each. . ._ support, so we are giving every partner £500 each... to help them make ends — partner £500 each... to help them make ends meet. _ partner £500 each... to help them make ends meet. free _ partner £500 each... to help them make ends meet. free food - partner £500 each... to help them make ends meet. free food over. make ends meet. free food over winter and _ make ends meet. free food over winter and that's _ make ends meet. free food over winter and that's before - make ends meet. free food overl winter and that's before mortgage rates _ winter and that's before mortgage rates start— winter and that's before mortgage rates start to _ winter and that's before mortgage rates start to rise. _ winter and that's before mortgage rates start to rise. find _ winter and that's before mortgage rates start to rise.— rates start to rise. and from what the ro rates start to rise. and from what the pro minister— rates start to rise. and from what the pro minister said, _ rates start to rise. and from what the pro minister said, did - rates start to rise. and from what the pro minister said, did you - rates start to rise. and from what. the pro minister said, did you have more faith that they are putting the economy on the wrong path in what are clearly very serious problems? it comes back to what happens next, so i it comes back to what happens next, so i think— it comes back to what happens next, so i think for— it comes back to what happens next, so i think for the _ it comes back to what happens next, so i think for the security— it comes back to what happens next, so i think for the security and - it comes back to what happens next, so i think for the security and the - so i think for the security and the stability— so i think for the security and the stability that _ so i think for the security and the stability that people _ so i think for the security and the stability that people and - so i think for the security and the . stability that people and businesses need. _ stability that people and businesses need. i_ stability that people and businesses need. ithink— stability that people and businesses need, i think the _ stability that people and businesses need, i think the fiscal— stability that people and businesses need, i think the fiscal plan - stability that people and businesses need, i think the fiscal plan and - need, i think the fiscal plan and ensuring — need, i think the fiscal plan and ensuring that _ need, i think the fiscal plan and ensuring that the _ need, i think the fiscal plan and ensuring that the numbers - need, i think the fiscal plan and ensuring that the numbers addi need, i think the fiscal plan and i ensuring that the numbers add up, need, i think the fiscal plan and - ensuring that the numbers add up, so seeing _ ensuring that the numbers add up, so seeing how— ensuring that the numbers add up, so seeing how public— ensuring that the numbers add up, so seeing how public spending _ ensuring that the numbers add up, so seeing how public spending balancesi seeing how public spending balances with tax— seeing how public spending balances with tax will — seeing how public spending balances with tax will be _ seeing how public spending balances with tax will be really— seeing how public spending balances with tax will be really important. - with tax will be really important. so for _ with tax will be really important. so for us. — with tax will be really important. so for us, what _ with tax will be really important. so for us, what we _ with tax will be really important. so for us, what we will _ with tax will be really important. so for us, what we will gain - with tax will be really important. so for us, what we will gain on . so for us, what we will gain on corporation _ so for us, what we will gain on corporation tax _ so for us, what we will gain on corporation tax reductions, - so for us, what we will gain on corporation tax reductions, wei so for us, what we will gain on - corporation tax reductions, we will lose even— corporation tax reductions, we will lose even more _ corporation tax reductions, we will lose even more in— corporation tax reductions, we will lose even more in terms— corporation tax reductions, we will lose even more in terms of- corporation tax reductions, we will lose even more in terms of higher| lose even more in terms of higher interest— lose even more in terms of higher interest rates _ lose even more in terms of higher interest rates. that— lose even more in terms of higher interest rates. that will— lose even more in terms of higher interest rates. that will be - lose even more in terms of higher interest rates. that will be true, l interest rates. that will be true, of your— interest rates. that will be true, of your £25,000, _ interest rates. that will be true, of your £25,000, maybe - interest rates. that will be true, of your £25,000, maybe will- interest rates. that will be true, i of your £25,000, maybe will gain bym _ of your £25,000, maybe will gain b ~ of your £25,000, maybe will gain by... whether you are a huge business _ by. .. whether you are a huge business or— by... whether you are a huge business or a _ by... whether you are a huge business or a tiny _ by... whether you are a huge business or a tiny business. l by... whether you are a huge - business or a tiny business. whether ou are a business or a tiny business. whether you are a huge _ business or a tiny business. whether you are a huge business _ business or a tiny business. whether you are a huge business or— business or a tiny business. whether you are a huge business or tiny - you are a huge business or tiny business — you are a huge business or tiny business but _ you are a huge business or tiny business but for— you are a huge business or tiny business but for most - you are a huge business or tiny business but for most ordinary| business but for most ordinary people — business but for most ordinary peopte they— business but for most ordinary peopte they are _ business but for most ordinary people they are going - business but for most ordinary people they are going to - business but for most ordinary people they are going to lose i people they are going to lose thousands— people they are going to lose thousands potentially -

people they are going to lose thousands potentially on - people they are going to lose - thousands potentially on mortgage rates and _ thousands potentially on mortgage rates and gaining _ thousands potentially on mortgage rates and gaining much _ thousands potentially on mortgage rates and gaining much less- thousands potentially on mortgage rates and gaining much less tax . rates and gaining much less tax changes — rates and gaining much less tax chances. . rates and gaining much less tax chances. ,, ,, rates and gaining much less tax chances. . ,, ., rates and gaining much less tax chances. ,,, ,, ., , changes. pippa, you will have been havin: changes. pippa, you will have been having similar _ changes. pippa, you will have been having similar conversations - changes. pippa, you will have been having similar conversations to - changes. pippa, you will have been having similar conversations to me | having similar conversations to me with tory mps, some of them unhappy, some still content with the plan but do you think what we heard this money is going to calm anyjitters or maybe make it worse? i money is going to calm any 'itters or maybe make it worse?h money is going to calm any 'itters or maybe make it worse? i doubt it because my — or maybe make it worse? i doubt it because my big _ or maybe make it worse? i doubt it because my big takeaway - or maybe make it worse? i doubt it because my big takeaway from - or maybe make it worse? i doubt iti because my big takeaway from that or maybe make it worse? i doubt it i because my big takeaway from that is the prime _ because my big takeaway from that is the prime minister is sticking to her guns~ — the prime minister is sticking to her guns. she's acknowledged problems with communication but as far as _ problems with communication but as far as she _ problems with communication but as far as she can sense, it wasn't with the substance of the announcement itself~ _ the substance of the announcement itself the _ the substance of the announcement itself. the conversation i've had with— itself. the conversation i've had with mps— itself. the conversation i've had with mps are about the substance of it. with mps are about the substance of it one _ with mps are about the substance of it. one extra bit i thought was striking — it. one extra bit i thought was striking was when you asked about the 45p _ striking was when you asked about the 45p rate she was very clear it was the — the 45p rate she was very clear it was the chancellor's decision and it's the _ was the chancellor's decision and it's the first time i've heard her point _ it's the first time i've heard her point the — it's the first time i've heard her point the finger of blame at him and that nrakes— point the finger of blame at him and that makes you wonder is everything actually. _ that makes you wonder is everything actually, how is that relationship going _ actually, how is that relationship going to — actually, how is that relationship going to be going forward because one of— going to be going forward because one of the — going to be going forward because one of the things tory mps are saying — one of the things tory mps are saying is— one of the things tory mps are saying is as well as making some changes— saying is as well as making some changes to — saying is as well as making some changes to the package itself, they also are _ changes to the package itself, they also are asking if it's feasible for kwasi _ also are asking if it's feasible for kwasi kwarteng to continue in his

role as— kwasi kwarteng to continue in his role as chancellor.— kwasi kwarteng to continue in his role as chancellor. let's talk about somethin: role as chancellor. let's talk about something else, _ role as chancellor. let's talk about something else, ukraine _ role as chancellor. let's talk about something else, ukraine of- role as chancellor. let's talk about something else, ukraine of course| something else, ukraine of course there is a lot of coverage in the newspapers about what's going on and president putin's extraordinary claim, the fake referendums in the last few days, but there's also discussion of ukraine's request to join nato. michael gove, should the uk support that bid? trio. wh?i join nato. michael gove, should the uk support that bid?- wh? uk support that bid? no. wh? i think it would be too _ uk support that bid? no. wh? i think it would be too grave _ uk support that bid? no. wh? i think it would be too grave a _ uk support that bid? no. wh? i think it would be too grave a risk _ uk support that bid? no. wh? i think it would be too grave a risk for - uk support that bid? no. wh? i think it would be too grave a risk for the i it would be too grave a risk for the united kingdom and the alliance. i believe that the support we are giving to president zelensky is right, we should do everything we can in order to support him in that conflict, but is a significant step to extend a guarantee to ukraine, which would mean that in any future conflict, if ukraine's territorial integrity were in french we would be committed to sending british armed forces into that conflict. i think that's a step can be far. interesting to hear that, we seen

pictures of world leaders particularly borisjohnson travelling to kyiv to meet resident zelensky but he is also getting huge support online and from hollywood stars to show their support for the country and mark hamill, who played luke skywalker in the star wars movies, has been in the news all over the world this week because president zelensky has asked him to help. one headline reads mark hamill joins forces with zelensky comparing russia to the evil empire. he is supporting the ukraine army of drones project and a bit earlier this morning i spoke to him to ask him exactly what that is all about. well, i think i first came on their radar when i tweeted in support of the ukraine back in february, when they were first invaded — on social media, on twitter and instagram. when i did meet with him he asked me to become an ambassador to united 24. so what does this project, united 2a, actually seek to achieve?

united 2a is the fundraising platform that you can get to if you go to u24.gov.ua. would money that goes to that platform potentially be used for lethal weapons? what's happening in ukraine is extremely serious and a brutal conflict. ukraine needs drones. they have some drones, but not nearly as many as the russians. you know, i was really fascinated with this man, president zelensky, because he's been absolutely heroic and the ukrainian people have been inspirational. he's an amazing man. did he talk to you about star wars? is he a star wars fan? because he has spoken of working with you and has said, as in star wars, good will triumph over evil and light will overcome darkness? yes, he did reference the movies and it's not hard to understand why.

star wars was always a fairy tale for children and fairy tales are morality tales of good versus evil, where good is clearly defined, evil is clearly defined, and it's not hard to extrapolate an evil empire with russia invading a sovereign nation, so it's not surprising and that's probably what appealed to him about me. would you describe president zelensky as a fan? you've talked about star wars with him, but were they films that were important to him? apparently so. i mean, he was properly just a little boy when they first came out. we didn't dwell on it, obviously. i mean, i was surprised he had the time in his schedule to even talk to me. we spoke for so long, i thought, don't you have to get back to work? mark hamill, thank you so much for speaking to us this morning.

thanks for having me. mark hamill, who has become somebody involved in the war effort in helping ukraine in one way or another. before we move on, michael gove, i want to ask you about liz truss, unusually candid perhaps for a senior politician, who admitted straight out she hadn't consulted the cabinet about the 45p rate. if you'd been in the cabinet and that had happened what would you have to be fairto to be fair to liz truss, it is that the chancellor and treasury design the chancellor and treasury design the budget, and are not shared with cabinet in that way. i have sat around the cabinet table knowing george osborne as a friend but not knowing until he stood up exactly what would be announced. for something _ what would be announced. for something that is politically controversial, that you said is about values as well, is it a surprise? it about values as well, is it a

surprise?— about values as well, is it a surrise? . , ., surprise? it is entirely legitimate for the prime _ surprise? it is entirely legitimate for the prime minister _ surprise? it is entirely legitimate for the prime minister and - for the prime minister and chancellor to make that decision. there are other things the cabinet could have understandably asked for, including more detail and clarity from the obr and more detail and clarity on how tax cuts would be paid for, but making a decision like thatis paid for, but making a decision like that is entirely within the prime minister and chancellor's remit. while the conservatives and the country are grappling with a new reality, the labour party can hardly believe their luck — cheered by the huge turnaround in the polls. the woman who'd run the economy if the party did make it to number ten is rachel reeves, and she is here in birmingham with us today. rachel, what did you make of what liz truss had to say? i thought some of it was quite shocking, to be honest. you showed the prime minister a chart of what had happened to government borrowing costs and then you rightly made the point that that was impacting on people's mortgages and she said the two things were different. they are different, because the borrowing costs on mortgages are even higher

than what you showed in that chart, and they leapt last week on the government budget and then the expectation is that the bank of england will have to hike rates further and faster because of that huge injection of spending into the economy through unfunded tax cuts. taking a family in my constituency in leeds. mum and dad earning around £25,000 a year. they borrow 200,000 for a mortgage on a fixed three—year deal that comes up in april. they are on an interest rate of 2% at the moment but at the moment it looks like it'll be 6% when they renew in april, meaning £8,000 extra in a yearin april, meaning £8,000 extra in a year in extra borrowing cost, more than £600 per month. people can't cope with those sorts of increases and the prime minister doesn't understand the anxiety and fear. this crisis was made in downing street but its ordinary working people who will pay the price. she would dispute your characterisation of what she is doing but isn't it reasonable for liz truss to say that

after many years of sluggish growth, it's time for something radical? the onl thin i it's time for something radical? tia: only thing i would agree it's time for something radical? ti9: only thing i would agree with it's time for something radical? ti9 only thing i would agree with the chancellor and prime minister on is that we need to get the economy growing. the economy was growing by around 2.5% per year under the last labour government and growth has collapsed since then. we are all paying the price for that, lower living standards and less money for public services. this idea that trickle down economics will somehow deliver the 2.5% growth we all want to see is for the birds. the prime minister and chancellor are doing some mad experiment with the uk economy and trickle—down economics. it has failed before and it will fail again. it has failed before and it will failagain. myself it has failed before and it will fail again. myself and it has failed before and it will failagain. myselfand keir it has failed before and it will fail again. myself and keir starmer set out at our conference last week a real plan for economic growth, a green prosperity plan for all parts of the country to get good jobs so we can be a global leader in the future. :, , :, , future. you 'ust said the only thing ou would future. you just said the only thing you would agree —

future. you just said the only thing you would agree with _ future. you just said the only thing you would agree with liz _ future. you just said the only thing you would agree with liz truss - future. you just said the only thing you would agree with liz truss and j you would agree with liz truss and kwasi kwarteng on is increasing growth. your plans also require quite a lot of borrowing. can you explain why the large amount of borrowing you would do if you are in charge of the economy would not spook the markets in the same way as the government? people are thinking, you both want to borrow money, so what's the difference? taste you both want to borrow money, so what's the difference?— what's the difference? we said on national insurance, the increased taxes on working people and the businesses that employ them, it's the wrong approach and we welcome that it has been reversed. it was the sheer scale of borrowing in the mini budget without an obr forecast, and the gratuitous borrowing to fund tax cuts for the wealthiest. hagar tax cuts for the wealthiest. how would you _ tax cuts for the wealthiest. how would you pay _ tax cuts for the wealthiest. how would you pay for— tax cuts for the wealthiest. how would you pay for it? _ tax cuts for the wealthiest. how would you pay for it? you say it's the wrong thing to go ahead with that tax rise but how would you pay for it, and critically how would you pay for social care, which the tax was designed to fund, if you are not going ahead with it? i will

was designed to fund, if you are not going ahead with it?— going ahead with it? i will add to the second _ going ahead with it? i will add to the second part _ going ahead with it? i will add to the second part and _ going ahead with it? i will add to the second part and then - going ahead with it? i will add to the second part and then the - going ahead with it? i will add to i the second part and then the first. when kwasi kwarteng delivered the mini budget he said that although they were reducing national insurance back to where it was previously, it wouldn't affect a budget for health and social care. that's really important because we know that money is needed and he said it would not affect the budget. rachel wreaths, how would you pay for it? ~ . �* rachel wreaths, how would you pay forit? :, �* , , rachel wreaths, how would you pay forit? :, �* , for it? what i'm saying is they are not for it? what i'm saying is they are rrot reducing _ for it? what i'm saying is they are not reducing the _ for it? what i'm saying is they are not reducing the money _ for it? what i'm saying is they are not reducing the money for - for it? what i'm saying is they arej not reducing the money for health and social care so there is not a black hole to be filled. to take your wider point about labour borrowing. i set out to set off fiscal rules and i said everything in our master esther would be fully costed and funding and it would get down as a share of gdp. —— in our manifesto. we are in the middle of a cost of living crisis and everybody understands that to get through that, as we did during covid, limited borrowing is needed to address the cost of living crisis. that's why we have said for ages that there needs to be a package to help people with their energy bills. that is not what spooked the

markets. what spooked the markets is the scale of the package. let’s markets. what spooked the markets is the scale of the package.— the scale of the package. let's talk about our the scale of the package. let's talk about your plans. _ the scale of the package. let's talk about your plans. something - the scale of the package. let's talk about your plans. something we i the scale of the package. let's talk - about your plans. something we asked your boss, labour leader keir starmer last week in liverpool, labour at the moment is only guaranteeing to freeze people's energy bills for six months, not the two years that the government is going ahead with. taste two years that the government is going ahead with.— two years that the government is going ahead with. we set out a fully costed and funded _ going ahead with. we set out a fully costed and funded plan _ going ahead with. we set out a fully costed and funded plan well - going ahead with. we set out a fully costed and funded plan well before | costed and funded plan well before the government had any plan in place. the government had any plan in lace. ~ . the government had any plan in lacer ., ., ,, , the government had any plan in lace. . :, the government had any plan in lace. :, , place. what happens after six months, that's _ place. what happens after six months, that's my _ place. what happens after six months, that's my question. | place. what happens after six i months, that's my question. we welcome the _ months, that's my question. 9 welcome the fact the government have come forward with the package and we support the support for the two—year period forced up the difference between us and the conservatives is that we would fund part of that package by an extension of the windfall tax on the big profits that north sea aligned gas.— windfall tax on the big profits that north sea aligned gas. that's about how ou north sea aligned gas. that's about how you will — north sea aligned gas. that's about how you will pay — north sea aligned gas. that's about how you will pay for _ north sea aligned gas. that's about how you will pay for it, _ north sea aligned gas. that's about how you will pay for it, not - north sea aligned gas. that's about how you will pay for it, not for - north sea aligned gas. that's about how you will pay for it, not for how| how you will pay for it, not for how long people will get help they need. what happens to people after six months because at the moment the big difference for the public is they can hear what the government is saying, we will help for two years.

you support a package for two years yellow we support that package but the only difference is how you pay for it. ~ the only difference is how you pay forit.~ , , the only difference is how you pay forit.~ , ., for it. we support the package and welcome the _ for it. we support the package and welcome the fact _ for it. we support the package and welcome the fact the _ for it. we support the package and welcome the fact the government | for it. we support the package and - welcome the fact the government have finally come to the table with a package of measures but the big difference is how do you fund it. the government are putting it all on borrowing. we have said there should be an extension of the windfall tax on the big profits that oil and gas companies are making, energy generators are making. the government are leaving tens of billions of pounds on the table that could be taxed to pay for this. that means every pound that is left on the table that the government has to borrow more. that's the problem with their package of measures. it is all funded by borrowing.— funded by borrowing. labour has chanced funded by borrowing. labour has changed in _ funded by borrowing. labour has changed in the _ funded by borrowing. labour has changed in the last _ funded by borrowing. labour has changed in the last seven - funded by borrowing. labour has changed in the last seven days i funded by borrowing. labour has - changed in the last seven days then? are you committing to supporting people's energy bills over two years? you say you would pay that with a windfall tax. you are an economist by training and you know

the numbers inside out. help me with this number, because the two—year cost of supporting energy bills might come out at around 100, 120 billion. six months is around 60 billion. six months is around 60 billion. the windfall tax is projected only to raise 8 billion. 8 billion versus 120 billion, how do you come up with the rest of it? taste you come up with the rest of it? we are you come up with the rest of it? 9 are saying an extension of the windfall tax. 50 are saying an extension of the windfall tax.— are saying an extension of the windfall tax. :, , ' ~ windfall tax. so that might be 16. we haven't _ windfall tax. so that might be 16. we haven't got — windfall tax. so that might be 16. we haven't got any _ windfall tax. so that might be 16. we haven't got any numbers - windfall tax. so that might be 16. | we haven't got any numbers from windfall tax. so that might be 16. - we haven't got any numbers from the government in any forecast. we think we can raise tens of billions of pounds through an extension of the windfall tax, backdating it to january of this year when profits started to go through the roof, extending it to all energy generators beyond just oil and gas and to extend it for a longer period of time and it could raise tens of billions that then wouldn't have to be funded through government borrowing. at the moment the government are putting all the cost

of the energy package on current and future taxpayers who are going to have to pay for this eventually. at the same time they leave windfall profits their untaxed and that's not right. profits their untaxed and that's not riuht. .,. . profits their untaxed and that's not riuht. :,: , ., :, right. rachel reeves, we have to leave it there _ right. rachel reeves, we have to leave it there but _ right. rachel reeves, we have to leave it there but thank - right. rachel reeves, we have to leave it there but thank you - right. rachel reeves, we have to leave it there but thank you for l leave it there but thank you for coming to birmingham this morning. as we come towards the end of the programme let me remind of our central question this morning. in the face of so much pressure and pushback, can the prime minister make her plan work? this is what she had to say earlier. i do stand by the package we announced and i stand by the fact that we announced it quickly, because we had to act, but i do accept we should have laid the ground better. i do accept that. you accept you should have laid the ground better. i have learned from that, and i will make sure that in future we do a betterjob of laying the ground. sharon white, you've heard from the shadow chancellor and from the prime minister.

do you feel better or worse over the next six months?— next six months? everybody is riuhtl next six months? everybody is rightly anxious. _ next six months? everybody is rightly anxious. thinking - next six months? everybody is rightly anxious. thinking as . next six months? everybody is rightly anxious. thinking as a i rightly anxious. thinking as a retailer, but many families will be thinking of christmas, and how we have a affordable christmas. we have a response ability as a business, and other businesses up and down the country, how can we make sure people have a great end to the year that is affordable, more value for money? we are looking at how we can freeze prices so that struggling families can still have a great time, but i think all of us have got to step into this cost of living crisis and do what we can.— into this cost of living crisis and do what we can. michael gove, will liz truss be — do what we can. michael gove, will liz truss be able _ do what we can. michael gove, will liz truss be able to _ do what we can. michael gove, will liz truss be able to get _ do what we can. michael gove, will liz truss be able to get plans - do what we can. michael gove, will liz truss be able to get plans pastl liz truss be able to get plans past the conservative party and will she be prime minister at this time next year? i be prime minister at this time next ear? . . . be prime minister at this time next ear? ., , , : , year? i am sure she will. as liz indicated. _ year? i am sure she will. as liz indicated, there _ year? i am sure she will. as liz indicated, there needs - year? i am sure she will. as liz indicated, there needs to - year? i am sure she will. as liz indicated, there needs to be i year? i am sure she will. as liz indicated, there needs to be a| indicated, there needs to be a course — indicated, there needs to be a course correction and... she indicated, there needs to be a course correction and... she is not willin: to course correction and... she is not willing to do _ course correction and... she is not willing to do that, _ course correction and... she is not willing to do that, she _ course correction and... she is not willing to do that, she has - course correction and... she is not willing to do that, she has been i willing to do that, she has been clear that she will not, this morning. i clear that she will not, this morning-— clear that she will not, this morninu. ,, :, , , , morning. i think reality bites. one ofthe morning. i think reality bites. one of the things _ morning. i think reality bites. one of the things that _ morning. i think reality bites. one of the things that liz _ morning. i think reality bites. one of the things that liz indicated - morning. i think reality bites. one of the things that liz indicated as| of the things that liz indicated as well is _

of the things that liz indicated as well is that the additional work government requires to do in order to show— government requires to do in order to show how the package will be paid. _ to show how the package will be paid. the — to show how the package will be paid, the so—called medium—term fiscal— paid, the so—called medium—term fiscal plan— paid, the so—called medium—term fiscal plan or strategy, that will have _ fiscal plan or strategy, that will have to — fiscal plan or strategy, that will have to be brought forward. i think when _ have to be brought forward. i think when liz— have to be brought forward. i think when liz said the ground wasn't perhaps— when liz said the ground wasn't perhaps properly prepared, i hope what she — perhaps properly prepared, i hope what she meant was that the additional detail, which will help -ive additional detail, which will help give confidence to the markets, but more _ give confidence to the markets, but more importantly give reassurance to the public. _ more importantly give reassurance to the public, that needs to be accelerated and i hope we will see that nruch— accelerated and i hope we will see that much sooner rather than later. very briefly. — that much sooner rather than later. very briefly, you have been critical this morning but are you trying to be helpful?— this morning but are you trying to be helpful? yes. pippa crerar, how much trouble _ be helpful? yes. pippa crerar, how much trouble does the government facing the next few days in birmingham? abs, facing the next few days in birmingham?— facing the next few days in birmingham? facing the next few days in birminuham? : ., ., , ~ birmingham? a huge amount this week, but if ou birmingham? a huge amount this week, but if you think — birmingham? a huge amount this week, but if you think that _ birmingham? a huge amount this week, but if you think that is _ birmingham? a huge amount this week, but if you think that is difficult, - but if you think that is difficult, wait _ but if you think that is difficult, wait until— but if you think that is difficult, wait until they— but if you think that is difficult, wait until they are _ but if you think that is difficult, wait until they are back - but if you think that is difficult, wait until they are back in - wait until they are back in parliament— wait until they are back in parliament next- wait until they are back in parliament next week - wait until they are back in - parliament next week because it wait until they are back in _ parliament next week because it will be much _ parliament next week because it will be much more — parliament next week because it will be much more difficult _ parliament next week because it will be much more difficult then. - parliament next week because it will be much more difficult then.- be much more difficult then. sounds like there will _ be much more difficult then. sounds like there will be _ be much more difficult then. sounds like there will be lot _ be much more difficult then. sounds like there will be lot of _ be much more difficult then. sounds like there will be lot of trouble - like there will be lot of trouble for liz truss back at the ranch unless she changes her mind. thank you to you for being with us this morning and thank you for watching.

liz truss' start in government has been like no other — in a few short weeks her plans for the economy have been battered by the markets and her reputation hammered at the polls. listening to her this morning, she admits her plan could have been explained better, but she is clear she won't change direction. michael gove, meanwhile, wouldn't even confirm he would vote for her plans in the commons. so trouble in the party and the markets. even her heroine margaret thatcher once warned, if you try to buck the markets, you will find that the market bucks you. there is opportunity and danger for liz truss in the next few days. you can catch up with anything you missed or watch again on iplayer later. who knows where she'll be by the time we meet again next sunday. until then, goodbye. i regret this tragedy and i hope this is the last tragedy to occur in indonesian football. we cannot have any more in the future. it's portsmouth ship humanity

hello. it was certainly a soggy start to sunday across some southern parts of england and wales, but that rain continues to clear its way southwards and eastwards, and we'lljoin the rest of the country with a fine afternoon with sunny spells. it was this weather system which was a little bit further south than we were expecting 2a hours ago. because of that, it clears away a little bit quicker, too, which means a brighter, drier afternoon for most. clearing away from the southeast corner by the time we get to lunchtime, maybe a few showers continuing across the channel islands through the afternoon, but away from that isolated showers mainly to the north and west of scotland. but overall, fewer showers than yesterday and temperatures up a little bit. and that's because we'll have lighter winds than yesterday, especially for england and wales. still a keen breeze across parts of the north and west of scotland, that will keep temperatures up here through the night, as it will do in northern ireland

as the breeze picks up. but away from that, across england and wales, particularly southeast scotland, a few mist and fog patches forming with clear skies. a bit more cloud pushing in from the west later, but that won't stop the temperatures from dropping too much. this is how we look in the towns and cities to start your monday morning commute. the mildest weather, cloudiest, breeziest weather is towards the west of scotland and northern ireland, but in some rural parts of england and wales we could see temperatures around two or three degrees. that's low enough for a touch of frost on the grass and the cars. so it's that ridge of high pressure which keeps things dry to begin with with light winds. but as these weather fronts push into the north and west through the day with strengthening wind. we will see some cloud run ahead of it. so not quite as sunny as it will be for some of you this afternoon, but there will still be some spells of hazy sunshine around. isolated chance of a shower in cumbria, maybe across devon, cornwall and dorset. but rain will come and go north and west of scotland, turning heavier through the afternoon. same, too, across parts of northern ireland where it'll become more extensive

later in the day. it's a southerly wind, so temperatures will be on the milder side for this stage in october and a mild night to come then through the night and into tuesday. weatherfronts pushing their way southwards. a wet start across parts of scotland, northern ireland, but basically two batches of rain working their way into england and wales through the day and gradually fizzling. brightening up through scotland, northern ireland on tuesday. after that wet start. east anglia, the south east, could stay dry throughout with temperatures around 20 or 21 degrees, but that area of cloud extends back into another system, which will bring more widespread wind and rain on wednesday. and the end of the week looks fairly blustery and it's back to a mix of sunshine and showers. see you soon.

this is bbc news. i'm luxmy gopal and these are the headlines. one of the world's worst stadium disasters. at least 174 people have died in a stampede at an indonesian football match after police tear—gassed pitch invaders. britain's prime minister admits to the bbc that she should have laid the ground better ahead of the government's mini budget announcement which sparked a week of chaos on the financial markets. king charles will now not be at next

month's climate change conference in egypt following reports that prime minister liz truss "ordered" him not to attend.