this morning we are in the capital of the uk's oil and gas industry — aberdeen — for the snp conference. i'll be talking live to scotland's first minister, nicola sturgeon. her mission — to make scotland an independent country. her hope — a referendum next year. i can announce that the scottish government is proposing that the independence referendum be held on the 19th of october 2023. in days, a court will consider if a vote can be held. nicola sturgeon�*s had extraordinary success, but not everyone�*s on board. booing. yet the most pressing problem

everywhere affects every one of us. warnings of blackouts to uk ministers... we do have good energy supplies in the uk. we can get through the winter. ..struggling to keep control after spooking the markets... i get it, and i... and i... are you sorry?! i changed the policy. are you sorry? of course i'm sorry. ..and plenty of the public. the question that confronts us, wherever you are this morning — how to be sure this... ..doesn�*t happen. this morning we'rejoined live in the aberdeen art gallery by scotland's first minister, nicola sturgeon. from oxford by the one—time liz truss superfan and former culture secretary, nadine dorries. from london by the prime minister's fixer — the cabinet office minister nadhim zahawi. and with me here in aberdeen is a man known by millions as dijimmy peres. douglas henshall is here to talk about why he walked away from shetland, and

what's next for him. and with me to reflect on the interviews and look at what is making the news is the former labour chancellor alistair darling, the snp mpjoanna cherry — a radical, not a rebel — who was sacked from the frontbench and the chief operating officer of the energy company sse, martin pibworth. a very warm welcome from aberdeen — the snp is gathering just down the road — we're here in the city centre with tonnes to talk about. and of course, alistair darling, what is on so many people's mind is what is on so many people's mind is what has been going on in the

economy. with all of your experience of having been the chancellor in charge during the last crisis how would you describe a situation we are currently in? it is would you describe a situation we are currently in?— would you describe a situation we are currently in? it is chaotic. and aaivin a are currently in? it is chaotic. and giving a textbook _ are currently in? it is chaotic. and giving a textbook example, - giving a textbook example, everything you shouldn't do in difficult times. the problem i have got is at the very few royal time we have high inflation, the strengthening dollar, they have suddenly decided that they were going to have £45 billion of unfunded tax cuts, but particularly it was a disaster because they wanted to reduce the top rate of tax, frankly for people who don't actually need it. the real problem is people are losing credibility in this they don't have any confidence in what they are doing, and it is different to what they told the bank of england they were doing, the bank of england they were doing, the bank of england they were doing, the bank of england suddenly announced it wasn't going to continue with its quantitative easing and they had to go back into the market. the real

problem is, all of this feedback into higher interest rates and two mortgage payers who are suddenly being faced with very, very high modules they were not expecting. there are similar pressures and other countries, the committee is having to contend with that in other parts of the well. you having to contend with that in other parts of the well.— parts of the well. you are right that other _ parts of the well. you are right that other governments - parts of the well. you are right that other governments are . parts of the well. you are right - that other governments are having to deal with it, other governments have high levels of debt. why is it, though, that the pound tanked after this announcement? it was this announcement, it was self—inflicted, would not have happened if they haven't done it. they wanted to do it for political reasons, they didn't prepare the ground, didn't talk to the people they should have talked to, and the result is at one point it was costing this country more to borrow money than it does italy or greece, for example. it is really trashing our reputation, as well as of course millions of people are going to pay the price for this white we will put some of that to the conservative minister nadhim zahawi later. in terms of the pressure this winter, what is happening in the energy market is

such a big part of it. wipe specifically this year is there such a crunch, martin pibworth?- specifically this year is there such a crunch, martin pibworth? there was a crunch, martin pibworth? there was a reort a crunch, martin pibworth? there was a report earlier _ a crunch, martin pibworth? there was a report earlier this _ a crunch, martin pibworth? there was a report earlier this week _ a crunch, martin pibworth? there was a report earlier this week that - a report earlier this week that talked — a report earlier this week that talked about energy balances going forward, _ talked about energy balances going forward, their responsibility to look_ forward, their responsibility to look after the markets. and that report _ look after the markets. and that report had — look after the markets. and that report had some comfort in it in terms _ report had some comfort in it in terms of— report had some comfort in it in terms of the investments the uk has made _ terms of the investments the uk has made historically in renewables, gives— made historically in renewables, gives us— made historically in renewables, gives us a — made historically in renewables, gives us a little bit more security suppty_ gives us a little bit more security supply compared to some of our european — supply compared to some of our european neighbours. there are various— european neighbours. there are various issues going on in the energy— various issues going on in the energy markets. the weaponisation of .as energy markets. the weaponisation of gas supplies by the putin regime is clearly— gas supplies by the putin regime is clearly quite a big issue in terms of the _ clearly quite a big issue in terms of the agility it has caused. the things— of the agility it has caused. the things have happened. french nuclear generation— things have happened. french nuclear generation has been down on its normat — generation has been down on its normal. expectation, that affect us because _ normal. expectation, that affect us because traditionally the french export— because traditionally the french export to — because traditionally the french export to us during the winter months — export to us during the winter months. there are other issues across— months. there are other issues across the _ months. there are other issues across the summer, drought, and in scandinavia — across the summer, drought, and in scandinavia and across europe it has affected _ scandinavia and across europe it has affected the ability of things like

coal barges to go up the river rhine to stop _ coal barges to go up the river rhine to sto -. ., , ., ., to stop. that these through to the ressure. to stop. that these through to the pressure- it _ to stop. that these through to the pressure. it creates _ to stop. that these through to the pressure. it creates more - to stop. that these through to the pressure. it creates more risk. - to stop. that these through to the l pressure. it creates more risk. what rotects pressure. it creates more risk. what protects the — pressure. it creates more risk. what protects the uk _ pressure. it creates more risk. what protects the uk what _ pressure. it creates more risk. what protects the uk what is _ pressure. it creates more risk. what protects the uk what is its _ protects the uk what is its renewable investment it has historically made and this is a great — historically made and this is a great opportunity to look at how we can increase as investments to get better— can increase as investments to get better energy security going forward. . , better energy security going forward. ., , ., ., better energy security going forward. ., ., ., , ,, forward. certainly a lot of pressure to do that- — forward. certainly a lot of pressure to do that. let's _ forward. certainly a lot of pressure to do that. let's look— forward. certainly a lot of pressure to do that. let's look at _ forward. certainly a lot of pressure to do that. let's look at the - forward. certainly a lot of pressure to do that. let's look at the front l to do that. let's look at the front pages in scotland. lots of focus on the snp is the conference. the herald and not done up a national having a conversation. you gave us pages, and we will do about this later. cabinet ministers calling for unity. we'll see if the conservatives have much chance of that in the next few days. joanna cherry, you were watching very keenly what is happening at the snp conference this week. in advance of it you suggested the party could no longerjust keep saying up with this we will not put. what would you like to hear instead? in we will not put. what would you like to hear instead?— to hear instead? in fairness the -a is to hear instead? in fairness the party is no _ to hear instead? in fairness the party is no longer _ to hear instead? in fairness the party is no longer saying - to hear instead? in fairness the party is no longer saying that l to hear instead? in fairness the l party is no longer saying that and we are meeting at a very exciting time for the snp, the first time we

have met in person for three years. first time since our third general election victory in a row. first time since i work for the scottish election victory in a row. independence is riding high in the opinion polls, social attitudes survey shows support at 52%. the tanking of the british economy by the tories have destroyed the argument which alistair ran in the last referendum in terms of the broad shoulders of the uk and scotland being better off in the uk than out with it. the crisis shows the failures of the british government to invest in incredible renewable resources. you government to invest in incredible renewable resources.— government to invest in incredible renewable resources. you have from time to time — renewable resources. you have from time to time been _ renewable resources. you have from time to time been more _ renewable resources. you have from time to time been more keen - renewable resources. you have from time to time been more keen to - renewable resources. you have from| time to time been more keen to hear urgency, haven't you? the time to time been more keen to hear urgency, haven't you?— urgency, haven't you? the first minister has _ urgency, haven't you? the first minister has announced - urgency, haven't you? the first minister has announced a - urgency, haven't you? the first minister has announced a plan. urgency, haven't you? the first- minister has announced a plan which i suggested several years ago, to test the legality of whether or not the scottish parliament can hold an independence referendum that the supreme court next weekend i very much looking forward to going to court and hearing the arguments. i have enjoyed reading the written are

glitz both on behalf of the lord advocate and the scottish national party, which stressed the right of self—determination in international law. the minister has announced that and i'm completely in agreement with her that until such times as we see what thejudgment of her that until such times as we see what the judgment of the supreme court is, there is no need to flush out the later parts of her strategy. we need to wait and see what the supreme court says. we need to take this back to basics because this is not really an issue of law. this is an issue of politics and constitutionality. there is a majority in the scottish parliament in favour of a second independence referendum. the last time that happened, the british government came to the negotiation table and agreed that there could be a referendum. that is the custom and practice of the constitution. lexi the first minister _ practice of the constitution. lexi the first minister has to say. we will be back to you later on. nicola sturgeon is probably the most successful part a politician of a generation. certainly the last one standing after several

prime ministers have come and gone during her time in office. but nicola sturgeon's dream of an independent scotland still eludes her. could the country reach anotherjunction soon? here she is. last woman standing is perhaps not the best intro i have ever had. let's see. we are glad you are here. you have promised to the country, and of the plan, scotland is due to have a referendum in a year and ten days. are you confident it will happen? days. are you confident it will ha en? , days. are you confident it will ha--en? , . .. days. are you confident it will hauen? , . ., happen? yes, i am confident that that can happen. _ happen? yes, i am confident that that can happen, as _ happen? yes, i am confident that that can happen, as joanna - happen? yes, i am confident that| that can happen, as joanna cherry that can happen, asjoanna cherry has been outlining, the supreme court next week will consider the question of, does the scottish parliament have the competence to legislate for that referendum? there is little point speculating on the outcome of that court hearing. but, should the answer to that be yes, we have the plans ready to go to legislate the work on refreshing and updating the substantive case for independence and that will continue over the course of the next days. as joanna has said might wait to see what the court says and i'm

confident scotland will become independent. it confident scotland will become independent.— confident scotland will become independent. confident scotland will become indeendent. ., ., ., independent. if you have devote what is to stop the — independent. if you have devote what is to stop the uk _ independent. if you have devote what is to stop the uk government - independent. if you have devote what is to stop the uk government saying l is to stop the uk government saying we will not participate? i is to stop the uk government saying we will not participate?— we will not participate? i cannot sit here and _ we will not participate? i cannot sit here and predicate _ we will not participate? i cannot| sit here and predicate everything we will not participate? i cannot l sit here and predicate everything i do on the basis that the uk government will continue to act in a deeply anti—democratic fashion. i have to do what i consider to be the right thing, which is firstly respecting the will of the scottish people, which is for an independence referendum, and i was elected last year as this minister on a record share of the vote, a record turnout, a very clear manifesto commitment to a very clear manifesto commitment to a referendum. fin a very clear manifesto commitment to a refer: and 'n. fin ifs-flies a very clear manifesto commitment to a refer: and ii. fin ifs-flies a very clear manifesto commitment to a refer: and i know fat-nice; a very clear manifesto commitment to a refer: and i know what you to points, and i know what you want to haveit points, and i know what you want to have it and believe you have the right to have it, and that practical point, you cannot stop the uk saying we are not taking part. if point, you cannot stop the uk saying we are not taking part. it the we are not taking part. if the sopreme _ we are not taking part. if the supreme court _ we are not taking part. if the supreme court paves - we are not taking part. if the| supreme court paves . way we are not taking part. if the - supreme court paves . way for a supreme court paves the way for a lawful referendum next year i think vast of the of the vast majority of the people of scotland will take part in the uk government might decide to say they don't want them to take part in that but i don't think that is going to prevail. apart from anything else, i think the overwhelming impression that that gives, which i think the

uk government is already giving by their refusal to countenance democracy, is that they don't believe they can win a substantive case. if you are confident in your arguments in politics, confident in the case you are making, you don't fear democracy, you actually relish the opportunity to put your case before the people and let the people decide. �* , . ~ before the people and let the people decide. �*, ., ,, ., decide. let's talk about where the arc uments decide. let's talk about where the arguments are — decide. let's talk about where the arguments are and _ decide. let's talk about where the arguments are and i _ decide. let's talk about where the arguments are and i think- decide. let's talk about where the arguments are and i think we - decide. let's talk about where the arguments are and i think we can | arguments are and i think we can show you and the audience where there is support show you and the audience where there is support for show you and the audience where there is support for independence. this graph goes all the way back to july 2060 and essentially it is 50-50 july 2060 and essentially it is 50—50 and has been for a long time, bouncing up and down a bit. there is another question that people are asked about whether or not they want the choice now or i would they like the choice now or i would they like the choice now or i would they like the choice in a few years? if we look at that, it paints really quite a different picture and if we can bring this up... essentially support for having a referendum now is far, far lower. look at this year, when you want to scottish referendum? people have been asked over time. that is often less than 30%. do you

really feel the public wanted to have this now? the polls suggest something different that you let me make two points. it is a fair question. opinion polls are important. the politician who says opinion polls are not important is credible because we all love opinion polls. on this question of is it a mandate for independence —— independence referendum ago don't have to look at the polls because that election result i talked about, the snp that election result i talked about, the sn ' ., ., , . the snp won on independence referendum. _ the snp won on independence referendum. i— the snp won on independence referendum. i am _ the snp won on independence referendum. i am getting - the snp won on independence - referendum. i am getting criticised in this context for trying to deliver on the commitments but secondly, this is substantive point, we are seeing every day right now theissues we are seeing every day right now the issues you are speaking to the panel about. the consequences for scotland of not being independent. alistair in 2014 told the people of scotland with his colleagues that independence would threaten our membership of the eu, independence would imperil people's pensions, it

would imperil people's pensions, it would cause a currency crisis. look where we are right now, out of the eu, pensions within hours of falling down. , . . eu, pensions within hours of falling down. , ., . ., ., ., ., , down. guidance for and against stockin: down. guidance for and against stocking op _ down. guidance for and against stocking up the _ down. guidance for and against stocking up the currency - down. guidance for and against. stocking up the currency plunging. these are the consequences people are paying the price of right now and these ., ., ., ., and these flow from scotland with not been appended. _ and these flow from scotland with not been appended. the - and these flow from scotland with not been appended. the question| and these flow from scotland with l not been appended. the question of arc uments not been appended. the question of arguments for— not been appended. the question of arguments for and _ not been appended. the question of arguments for and against _ arguments for and against independence is a different one to whether there is really public clamour or demand for about within the next year in 12 months, which is what you would like. what we have shown people this morning is there isn't a huge clamour to have a vote on the arguments are pretty settled, 50-50. i on the arguments are pretty settled, 50-50. ., ., ., . ., ., 50-50. i have fought an election and won overwhelmingly _ 50-50. i have fought an election and won overwhelmingly on _ 50-50. i have fought an election and won overwhelmingly on this. - 50-50. i have fought an election and won overwhelmingly on this. i - won overwhelmingly on this. i believe that there is an appetite for a referendum. more than opinion polls and the headline issue, they come and go. at the end of the day, i believe very firmly, and i think this is a bit of an iron law of politics... if the other side of

this debate really believed people in scotland didn't want a referendum, and if they really believed that people in scotland would vote against independence, they would be the ones clamouring for a referendum.— they would be the ones clamouring for a referendum. maybe they don't want the disruption, _ for a referendum. maybe they don't want the disruption, people - for a referendum. maybe they don't want the disruption, people to - for a referendum. maybe they don't want the disruption, people to go i want the disruption, people to go through it. want the disruption, people to go throu~h it. , ., through it. perish the thought we would have _ through it. perish the thought we would have disruption _ through it. perish the thought we would have disruption in - through it. perish the thought we would have disruption in people's lives right now. the destruction people are suffering right now is coming from decisions that have been imposed on scotland against our will from brexit to the kind of decisions that we saw liz truss take a couple of weeks ago impact on people. as a country, we don't have control over it... white that your view, you make that clear, but i would like to talk... reflect. in aberdeen, for the last five decades, the oil and gas capital of europe, but scotland is now one of the renewable capitals of europe. we have massive renewable energy with the people of scotland facing... taste energy with the people of scotland facin: . .. ~ energy with the people of scotland facina... ~ . ~ energy with the people of scotland facina...~ ., ,, ., ,

facing... we will talk about energy later. facing... we will talk about energy later- that — facing... we will talk about energy later- that is _ facing... we will talk about energy later. that is a _ facing... we will talk about energy later. that is a good _ facing... we will talk about energy later. that is a good example - facing... we will talk about energy later. that is a good example of i facing... we will talk about energy l later. that is a good example of how westminster... _ later. that is a good example of how westminster... we _ later. that is a good example of how westminster... we are _ later. that is a good example of how westminster... we are going - later. that is a good example of how westminster... we are going to - later. that is a good example of how westminster... we are going to talk| westminster... we are going to talk about energy _ westminster... we are going to talk about energy later. _ westminster... we are going to talk about energy later. let's _ westminster... we are going to talk about energy later. let's say - westminster... we are going to talk about energy later. let's say the - about energy later. let's say the supreme court doesn't allow you to have this vote. you have now said if there isn't a way of having a referendum, you would treat the next general election, the next uk general election, the next uk general election, the next uk general election, as if it were a referendum on independence. to be exactly clear about what you mean, what you are saying is that if more than half of the population voted for parties who backed independence, you believe that would give you a mandate to make scotland independent. that is not my preference, not what i want to happen. that that is not my preference, not what i want to happen-— i want to happen. that is now your plan b? we _ i want to happen. that is now your plan b? we have _ i want to happen. that is now your plan b? we have to _ i want to happen. that is now your plan b? we have to have - i want to happen. that is now your plan b? we have to have an - plan b? we have to have an alternative. _ plan b? we have to have an alternative. if— plan b? we have to have an alternative. if democracy i plan b? we have to have an alternative. if democracy is| alternative. if democracy is blocked, if the route by which it would be right to consider and decide this issue, a lawful, constitutional referendum is blocked by westminster because they fear the democratic choice of the people in

scotland, for me and the snp, the choice is simple. we put our pasty people in election or we give up on scottish democracy. i will never, ever give up on scottish democracy. used to say doing anything other than having a legal, legitimate referendum was a unionist trap, to use your words. a few years ago at your party conference people put forward the idea of using a general election and you said it was a trap. it should be a last resort. i do not want to be in that position. whether you support or oppose independence, both those views are valid. i am clearly on one side of that debate. whatever your view on independence, the way to decide it is in a democratic, lawful referendum. mot the way to decide it is in a democratic, lawful referendum. not a reneral democratic, lawful referendum. not a general election? _ democratic, lawful referendum. not a general election? a _ democratic, lawful referendum. not a general election? a general _ democratic, lawful referendum. not a general election? a general election would not guarantee you independence, would it? if the

renter engine _ independence, would it? if the renter engine is _ independence, would it? if the renter engine is blocked, - independence, would it? if ii�*uéi renter engine is blocked, completely and indefensible blocked by a westminster government, what choice do we have? the voice of scotland does not matter, scottish democracy does not matter, scottish democracy does not matter or we put our case for a general election. that does not matter or we put our case for a general election.— for a general election. that would not for a general election. that would rrot guarantee _ for a general election. that would not guarantee it _ for a general election. that would not guarantee it happening. - for a general election. that would i not guarantee it happening. perhaps it is the case your options in a way sort of running out of road. you promised a referendum in the 2016 election and it did not happen. you tried again in 2019 and it did not happen. promised again in 2021 and it did not happen and now this potential plan b about using the next general election. it is not about saying whether it is a good idea or not, it is about whether or not he may be admit you just do not have the mechanism to make it happen. hf

have the mechanism to make it ha en. , have the mechanism to make it hauen. , ., ,., happen. if my options are limited, which is the _ happen. if my options are limited, which is the case _ happen. if my options are limited, which is the case to _ happen. if my options are limited, which is the case to some - happen. if my options are limited, which is the case to some extent, | which is the case to some extent, thatis which is the case to some extent, that is because scotland is in a system and we face a westminster system and we face a westminster system that simply will not respect scottish democracy, will not look an election result in scotland, electing a government on a manifesto commitment for referendum, saying we will argue against independence in that referendum but it is right and proper we respect the right to the people in scotland. if my rights are limited it is because westminster refuses the rights of scottish democracy. that is one of the most powerful arguments for scotland becoming independent. the uk is meant to be a voluntary partnership of nations. if we have a position where scotland is told we are not even allowed the choice are becoming independent, it is no longer a voluntary partnership of nations, the whole basis of the united kingdom. up. that is a powerful argument for being an independent

country so we had a partnership of equals. it country so we had a partnership of euuals. , ., ., equals. it will be a fascinating few weeks and months _ equals. it will be a fascinating few weeks and months ahead - equals. it will be a fascinating few weeks and months ahead with - equals. it will be a fascinating few weeks and months ahead with the court case. let's turn to energy. we are after all in aberdeen. you have criticised the uk plan to issue new oil and gas licenses and you say they should be climate compatible, there is a system of checking whether or not things tick the right boxes. would you ever support new oil and gas licences? would you approve them not? i oil and gas licences? would you approve them not?— approve them not? i will come directly to _ approve them not? i will come directly to that _ approve them not? i will come directly to that question - approve them not? i will come directly to that question in - approve them not? i will come directly to that question in a i directly to that question in a minute. let me put this into context. the north sea has served scotland well. it is a mature basin, a declining resource, even before we consider the environmental imperative here. we also have the environmental imperative of having to move away from fossil fuels as quickly as possible. igrate to move away from fossil fuels as quickly as possible.— to move away from fossil fuels as quickly as possible. we also need to kee the quickly as possible. we also need to keep the lights _ quickly as possible. we also need to keep the lights on. _ quickly as possible. we also need to keep the lights on. we _ quickly as possible. we also need to keep the lights on. we have - quickly as possible. we also need to

keep the lights on. we have vast - keep the lights on. we have vast renewable _ keep the lights on. we have vast renewable potential. _ keep the lights on. we have vast renewable potential. we - keep the lights on. we have vast renewable potential. we have i keep the lights on. we have vast. renewable potential. we have given the go—ahead for up to 28 gigawatts of offshore wind energy. the go-ahead for up to 28 gigawatts of offshore wind energy.— of offshore wind energy. forgive me for pressing — of offshore wind energy. forgive me for pressing you. — of offshore wind energy. forgive me for pressing you, this _ of offshore wind energy. forgive me for pressing you, this is _ for pressing you, this is questionable principle. can you see circumstances where you would approve licences for new oil and gas exploration? approve licences for new oil and gas exploration?— approve licences for new oil and gas exloration? ~ ., , exploration? whether new or existing licences applying _ exploration? whether new or existing licences applying for _ exploration? whether new or existing licences applying for development - licences applying for development consent, then after every stage be a robust climate compatibility case. they have said there can be no compatible oil and gas. that they have said there can be no compatible oil and gas.- they have said there can be no compatible oil and gas. that is the oint i am compatible oil and gas. that is the point i am coming _ compatible oil and gas. that is the point i am coming on _ compatible oil and gas. that is the point i am coming on to. - compatible oil and gas. that is the point i am coming on to. i - compatible oil and gas. that is the point i am coming on to. i am - compatible oil and gas. that is the point i am coming on to. i am very sceptical as to whether new exploration can pass that test. without seeing the climate compatibility assessments i cannot answer that question in the hypothetical. i am sceptical if any of that occurs. ii hypothetical. i am sceptical if any of that occurs.— hypothetical. i am sceptical if any of that occurs. if they could commit ou of that occurs. if they could commit you might- — of that occurs. if they could commit you might- he _ of that occurs. if they could commit you might. he would _ of that occurs. if they could commit you might. he would not _ of that occurs. if they could commit you might. he would not say - of that occurs. if they could commit you might. he would not say no, i you might. he would not say no, never. , ., , , . ., never. the problem is if the climate compatibility _ never. the problem is if the climate compatibility checks _ never. the problem is if the climate compatibility checks are _ never. the problem is if the climate compatibility checks are not - never. the problem is if the climate

compatibility checks are not being l compatibility checks are not being done... ., ., ., ., compatibility checks are not being l done- - -_ they done... you are not no never. they are not done... you are not no never. they are rrot done _ done... you are not no never. they are not done strongly _ done... you are not no never. they are not done strongly enough i done... you are not no never. they are not done strongly enough in i done... you are not no never. they| are not done strongly enough in the case of new licences.— case of new licences. income taxes devolved in — case of new licences. income taxes devolved in scotland _ case of new licences. income taxes devolved in scotland and _ case of new licences. income taxes devolved in scotland and they i case of new licences. income taxes devolved in scotland and they were different tax rates. liz truss has announced a cut in the base rate. she has announced it but whether it comes into being...— comes into being... when you cut our tax comes into being... when you cut your tax rate _ comes into being... when you cut your tax rate to _ comes into being... when you cut your tax rate to max _ comes into being... when you cut your tax rate to max that - comes into being... when you cut your tax rate to max that the i comes into being... when you cut i your tax rate to max that the people pay less in scotland? iltrui’ith your tax rate to max that the people pay less in scotland?— pay less in scotland? with will set a buduet pay less in scotland? with will set a budget in _ pay less in scotland? with will set a budget in december— pay less in scotland? with will set a budget in december and - pay less in scotland? with will set a budget in december and set i pay less in scotland? with will set a budget in december and set out| pay less in scotland? with will set i a budget in december and set out our tax plans as part of that. we will come to that decision in a balanced way, taking account of the factors you would expect any government too. right now, the majority of income taxpayers in scotland already pay less income tax than the rest of the 93v less income tax than the rest of the gay papers that is why i ask this question. gay papers that is why i ask this ruestion. �* �* , gay papers that is why i ask this ruestion. �* �*, . ., , question. after the uk's changes, scottish taxpayers _ question. after the uk's changes, scottish taxpayers will _ question. after the uk's changes, scottish taxpayers will pay i question. after the uk's changes, scottish taxpayers will pay less i question. after the uk's changes, scottish taxpayers will pay less orj scottish taxpayers will pay less or more if you do not match the tax cuts. ., ., ,., ' .,

cuts. there are about1 million eo - le cuts. there are about1 million people in _ cuts. there are about1 million people in scotland _ cuts. there are about1 million people in scotland who i cuts. there are about1 million people in scotland who pay i cuts. there are about1 millionj people in scotland who pay 20 cuts. there are about1 million i people in scotland who pay 20 p. they need to ensure the tax is fair and progressive. we also need to have proper investment in public services, not least the national health service, which is having significant challenges right now. what we will not do, and it is not that long ago, a week or so ago, when scottish conservatives demanded we follow suit to abolish the top rate of tax. we will not cut tax for the wealthiest at the expense of public services. ads, the wealthiest at the expense of public services.— the wealthiest at the expense of public services. a million people in scotland pay _ public services. a million people in scotland pay that _ public services. a million people in scotland pay that rate. _ public services. a million people in scotland pay that rate. you i public services. a million people in scotland pay that rate. you say i public services. a million people in| scotland pay that rate. you say you are not ready to say whether or not they will pay... they will have a cut in the same way as in england. we had a well established budget process in scotland. that we had a well established budget process in scotland.— process in scotland. that is fine. -- we have _ process in scotland. that is fine. -- we have a _ process in scotland. that is fine. -- we have a well— process in scotland. that is fine. -- we have a well established i process in scotland. that is fine. i -- we have a well established budget —— we have a well established budget process. this is a really difficult time for people. we are trying to lift incomes for the lowest... we

have a scottish child payment in scotland nobody else in the uk has. £25 a week almost. we do not papal prescriptions in scotland. —— we do not pay for prescriptions in scotland. taxpayers in scotland get better value for money than anywhere else in the uk. we are running out of time. his liz truss a friend or foe? ~ . of time. his liz truss a friend or foe? ., ,, foe? we are political opponents but i have foe? we are political opponents but i have always _ foe? we are political opponents but i have always tried _ foe? we are political opponents but i have always tried to _ foe? we are political opponents but i have always tried to work - foe? we are political opponents but i have always tried to work with i foe? we are political opponents but i have always tried to work with her| i have always tried to work with her predecessors and i will try to work with her. i would like to be a friend on the basis of areas we can work together constructively. iltrui’hat work together constructively. what about keir starmer? _ work together constructively. what about keir starmer? i _ work together constructively. what about keir starmer? i worked i work together constructively. what about keir starmer? i worked very| about keir starmer? i worked very well with him _ about keir starmer? i worked very well with him over _ about keir starmer? i worked very well with him over brexit. - about keir starmer? i worked very well with him over brexit. i i about keir starmer? i worked very well with him over brexit. i am i well with him over brexit. i am disappointed he has thrown the towel over the european union. he disappointed he has thrown the towel over the european union.— over the european union. he would she refer over the european union. he would she prefer to _ over the european union. he would she prefer to have _ over the european union. he would she prefer to have as _ over the european union. he would she prefer to have as prime i she prefer to have as prime minister? ii she prefer to have as prime minister?—

she prefer to have as prime minister? , ., , ., minister? if the question is would i refer minister? if the question is would i prefer labour _ minister? if the question is would i prefer labour over _ minister? if the question is would i prefer labour over tories _ minister? if the question is would i prefer labour over tories commit l minister? if the question is would i prefer labour over tories commit i | prefer labour over tories commit i detest the tories, it is not difficult to answer that question. being better than the tories is not a high bar to cross right now. please need to see more of a radical alternative. if you are asking either a westminster tory government or at westminster labour government is good enough for scotland, my answer to that question is no. idot answer to that question is no. not to net answer to that question is no. not to get through from what nicola sturgeon has been saying to us. joanna cherry is listening to that. does a general election and referendum stuck up for you? i agree with everything _ referendum stuck up for you? i agree with everything the _ referendum stuck up for you? i agree with everything the first _ referendum stuck up for you? i agree with everything the first has - referendum stuck up for you? i agree with everything the first has said. i with everything the first has said. it has been sometime since i said we should test the legal case. as i stressed earlier, and as the first minister has stressed that there is a majority in the scottish

parliament for a referendum to be held a second time. if we lose the supreme court case it would not stop the british government from coming to the negotiating table and that is what they should do. i would like to say one thing. a lot of people seem to have assumed in advance they will lose. i am not part of this litigation but i have been involved in previous cases. we went on and one in the supreme court and in the european court ofjustice. i would caution people in assuming we are going to lose the case. there are some very strong arguments. i am in agreement with the first minister. she does not need to flesh out her strategy on how she would use a general election is a plebiscite until we see the outcome of the supreme court case. there has to be recognition of the mandate the first minister got in the last election. there has to be recognition that the scottish parliament, the majority of

msps, want to hold a second referendum. if we cannot do that we need some sort of democratic event to demonstrate that the balance of opinion in scotland has changed since 2014. i am with the first minister on this strategy. i am often portrayed as someone to disagree with nicola sturgeon. that is not the case. we have a big disagreement over women's rights and lesbian rights. i advocated for women's rights and lesbian rights in the face of a very aggressive gender identity ideology and i will continue to do that because i think it is the right thing to do. on the course of independence, nicola and i are as one. i have suggested over the years protesting the case and having a people's vote, this has gone on.

having a people's vote, this has one on. ., ., .., ., ,, ., gone on. you and nicola sturgeon did combat in the — gone on. you and nicola sturgeon did combat in the independence - combat in the independence referendum in 2014, how she managed to change your mind? ida. referendum in 2014, how she managed to change your mind?— to change your mind? no. what is strikin: is to change your mind? no. what is striking is that _ to change your mind? no. what is striking is that this _ to change your mind? no. what is striking is that this argument i to change your mind? no. what isj striking is that this argument from the snp _ striking is that this argument from the snp perspective is always characterised by giving the impression that somehow everybody in scotland _ impression that somehow everybody in scotland wants another referendum and it _ scotland wants another referendum and it has _ scotland wants another referendum and it has been botched by the conservative party in westminster. 0pinion— conservative party in westminster. opinion polls are not everything. with the — opinion polls are not everything. with the two policy showed, they are quite instructive. if you look at what _ quite instructive. if you look at what has — quite instructive. if you look at what has happened since 2014, scotland — what has happened since 2014, scotland is split down the middle. this country is tearing itself apart~ — this country is tearing itself apart. that uncertainty is damaging to our— apart. that uncertainty is damaging to our growth prospects and to our well-being — to our growth prospects and to our well—being. the second thing is, it is abundantly clear there is not a majority — is abundantly clear there is not a majority of — is abundantly clear there is not a majority of people in scotland who want another referendum any time soon _ want another referendum any time soon if— want another referendum any time soon. ., , want another referendum any time soon. , ., , ., ,, soon. if scottish voters to the snp as the most _ soon. if scottish voters to the snp as the most popular _ soon. if scottish voters to the snp as the most popular party - soon. if scottish voters to the snp as the most popular party and i soon. if scottish voters to the snp as the most popular party and the|

as the most popular party and the snp has a clear plan to have independence in this country, doesn't she have a point? actually they are unfairly stuck. that doesn't she have a point? actually they are unfairly stuck.— they are unfairly stuck. at every scottish election _ they are unfairly stuck. at every scottish election and _ they are unfairly stuck. at every scottish election and general i scottish election and general election, i remember being told by the snp, _ election, i remember being told by the snp, this is not about independence, we want people to vote that is— independence, we want people to vote that is because they say they can run the _ that is because they say they can run the country properly, which is highly— run the country properly, which is highly debatable, i think. if there really— highly debatable, i think. if there really was — highly debatable, i think. if there really was a surge in support for independence, even expect to see reflected _ independence, even expect to see reflected in polls. these polls are conducted — reflected in polls. these polls are conducted pretty much every week, there _ conducted pretty much every week, there is— conducted pretty much every week, there is no— conducted pretty much every week, there is no shortage of them. what worries— there is no shortage of them. what worries me — there is no shortage of them. what worries me is my argument in 2014, my argument today is i think scotland _ my argument today is i think scotland is stronger. not about the tory government. the idea that scotland — tory government. the idea that scotland could do everything you want _ scotland could do everything you want and — scotland could do everything you want and it would all be lovely with independence just is not true. i understand that the position of the snp now—

understand that the position of the snp now on currencies, they're going to use _ snp now on currencies, they're going to use the _ snp now on currencies, they're going to use the pound, the same pound the tories _ to use the pound, the same pound the tories have _ to use the pound, the same pound the tories have been busy trashing. there _ tories have been busy trashing. there is— tories have been busy trashing. there is a — tories have been busy trashing. there is a policy paper published next week to flesh out that. we will have more time at the end. we asked the first minister about whether or not she would say no, never, to new oil and gas exploration. interesting she was not likely to give us a new answer. isn't it possible we can still have energy security without needing oil and as back—ups? she needing oil and as back-ups? she talks about _ needing oil and as back—ups? sie: talks about the environmental imperative of progressing in terms of these technologies. parts of the renewable system involves some intermittency. you do need flexible back—up to that, part of the solution going forward in the longer term will be carbon capture and hydrogen. hydrogen can be produced from renewables but help in catching needs gas to fuel it. having some

energy security in providing some of that gas would seem sensible to me. will that be the case for quite some time? , ,., . ., time? every politician thinks the ush to time? every politician thinks the push to renewables _ time? every politician thinks the push to renewables is _ time? every politician thinks the push to renewables is a - time? every politician thinks the push to renewables is a good i time? every politician thinks the i push to renewables is a good thing is that sometimes the wind does not blow and the sun does not shine. how long do you think they will need a back—up for oil and gas? it is particular windy today. we have a wind farm coming on right now, huge. when it is fully powered will be able to provide energy for 1.5 million homes. offshore wind farms are getting bigger, reliability is better and internet sissy sa. we will need something to replace the 93p- will need something to replace the gap. “ will need something to replace the gap. —— and intermittency. will need something to replace the gap. -- and intermittency.- will need something to replace the gap. -- and intermittency. there is ressure gap. -- and intermittency. there is pressure from _ gap. -- and intermittency. there is pressure from ukraine. _ gap. -- and intermittency. there is pressure from ukraine. we - gap. -- and intermittency. there is pressure from ukraine. we can i gap. -- and intermittency. there is. pressure from ukraine. we can show people extraordinary scenes with the bridge from russia into crimea. it has had a huge explosion and fire,

something that might be significant in the course of what is going on. just remind us why is the conflict in ukraine putting such pressure on for everybody?— in ukraine putting such pressure on for everybody? russia has been a big rovider of for everybody? russia has been a big provider of gas _ for everybody? russia has been a big provider of gas to _ for everybody? russia has been a big provider of gas to europe _ for everybody? russia has been a big provider of gas to europe and - for everybody? russia has been a big provider of gas to europe and we i provider of gas to europe and we import some gas from europe over the winter. and therefore the reduction in gas supply, the weaponisation of gas, creates a premium in markets but there have been other one—off events. that all leads to a little bit of volatility in the markets, which is almost unprecedented. part of the reason the uk is in a less exposed situation is because of its long—term policy which has led to long—term policy which has led to long—term investment in renewables. and one that all politicians i think of every party should be accelerated going forward, but only to do with the right think going forward to provide energy security for the country. provide energy security for the count . ., ., , , provide energy security for the count . ., , ,, country. the other massive pressure is what is happening _ country. the other massive pressure is what is happening with _ country. the other massive pressure is what is happening with interest i is what is happening with interest rates. there is a big piece in the

telegraph this morning which we can show people about the tensions around that. what's in it is going on between the bank of england and the government. you know what it is like to be a chancellor in a crisis. what is it like, how does it feel? it is not great is the answer to that. . . , it is not great is the answer to that. ., , , ., the key thing when you are facing a crisis is to be able to work with others who can help you and one of the things that worries me about what happened in the last couple of weeks as it appears to me that the government was not talking to the bank of england and it looks like the bank of england monetary policy committee was completely blindsided about an announcement to.— committee was completely blindsided about an announcement to. whether in the dark? i--- — about an announcement to. whether in the dark? i--- i— about an announcement to. whether in the dark? i... i haven't— about an announcement to. whether in the dark? i... i haven't spoken - about an announcement to. whether in the dark? i... i haven't spoken to i the dark? i... i haven't spoken to them but — the dark? i... i haven't spoken to them but i _ the dark? i... i haven't spoken to them but i do _ the dark? i... i haven't spoken to them but i do not _ the dark? i. .. i haven't spoken to them but i do not think— the dark? i... i haven't spoken to them but i do not think they i the dark? i... i haven't spoken to| them but i do not think they knew what the government was going to do. in every budget announcement and every statement may i would always make sure the governor of the bank

of england. they are at it again today, trying to trash the bank of england, along with having excluded the office of budget response this is undermining state government credibility and the unfortunate side effect are the direct effect is that because what is going on just now, interest rates will be higher than they would otherwise be and that feeds directly into the amount of money people pay on their mortgages, as well as prices generally. i think the relationship between the government of the day and the bank of england is absolutely critical. what you cannot do is trash it or just ignore it because they will pay a heavy price and i don't mind if the government is in trouble but i do mine very much what is happening to our country because our credibility has been damaged. what we are going to have to pay in the future because of high prices and so on, that is hugely damaging to our growth prospects stop one of the biggest challenges this government

is t in: biggest challenges this government ist in: to biggest challenges this government is trying to grapple _ biggest challenges this government is trying to grapple with. _ biggest challenges this government is trying to grapple with. the i is trying to grapple with. the business there was only too keen to mention the chaos that has been seen in the tory party. in a seven days since we spoke to the prime minister in birmingham, it feels like chaos has been the norm. if there's been a quicker or dramatic fall in support i can't remember it. not so long ago liz truss was the pick of many of her cabinet allies — one of them nadine dorries, who emerged with this endormsement outside number 10 that she was the one to continue boris johnson's work. the candidate that we select — and for me it's liz— who i'm going to back — _ will continue with those manifesto promises and will continue i to deliver for the government and for the conservative party moving forward. i but fast forward a few weeks, and here we are — accusing number 10 of lurching to the right — saying "we have no mandate to do this" — suggesting if the prime minister wants to procceed she needs a "fresh mandate". nadine joins us from the cotswolds.

good morning and thank you for joining us. good morning and thank you for joining us— good morning and thank you for joining us-_ you i good morning and thank you for l joining us._ you are joining us. good morning. you are one of liz — joining us. good morning. you are one of liz truss' _ joining us. good morning. you are one of liz truss' biggest _ one of liz truss' biggest supporters, why are you so cross with her now?— with her now? laura, can i 'ust clari , with her now? laura, can i 'ust clarify, '— with her now? laura, can i 'ust clarify. i am i with her now? laura, can i 'ust clarify, i am stiui with her now? laura, can i 'ust clarify, i am still one i with her now? laura, can i 'ust clarify, i am still one of h with her now? laura, can ijust clarify, i am still one of her - clarify, i am still one of her biggest supporters. but you have to put that into the context of the fact that we are at 30 points behind labour in the polls and therefore where —— if there were a general election tomorrow it would be a complete wipe—out for the conservative party so i think that now is the time, while we have a new prime minister and a new administration, to reflect on what has gone wrong and what we need to do to put that right, and to reverse that poll deficit was must be our absolute priority at the moment. if she doesn't change course, what should happen then? should she go to country or should her party try to remove her?— remove her? well, i believe that it's not so _

remove her? well, i believe that it's not so much _ remove her? well, i believe that it's not so much changing - remove her? well, i believe that it's not so much changing coursei remove her? well, i believe that i it's not so much changing course as perhaps you are missing —— nuancing the policies she is taking forward. just after a leadership election and at the start of an administration what we don't need is a disruptive, we need a unifier and i think probably at the new prime minister has realised that over the last few weeks. i am fully on—board with an agenda for growth, but we also to be very careful that we don't throw the baby out with the bath water, which i have said many times before. people voted for borisjohnson and it is not liz truss a' fault that conservative mps remove him. they also voted for a mandate and the manifesto. but we can't throw what they voted for out, also, because then we have completely disenfranchised the voting public. so i would just ask liz truss to consider what it is... but so i would just ask liz truss to consider what it is. . .— so i would just ask liz truss to consider what it is... but if she doesnt consider what it is... but if she doesn't reverse _ consider what it is. .. but if she

doesn't reverse her— consider what it is... but if she doesn't reverse her plans - consider what it is... but if she doesn't reverse her plans and l consider what it is... but if she i doesn't reverse her plans and go back to that 2019 manifesto, what should happen then? what you said on social media the other day suggest you think there could be a general election, she needs a fresh mandate. no, i was pointing out the simple principle of our democracy and our unwritten constitution, that if you are going to have a completely fresh mandate, that our policy ideas and a new prime minister, it would be right to go to the country. liz doesn't need to do that and i really hope she won't do that when we are 30 points behind in the polls, but what we do need to do is to ensure that the policies that are being announced... and i think the cabinets letter which is being written by cabinet ministers to mps today, asking them to unify behind her, is the right thing to do, but i think also number 10 need to take a step back and think also about how they unify the party and the policies and how together we do what is right to move forward and decrease that deficit in the polls.

i ask you this morning, if she doesn't ditch the policy is that you don't like, that people didn't vote for in 2019, what happens then? we both know there are people in the conservative party discussing whether or not they might need to remove liz truss. what should happen if she doesn't reverse? itrefoil. remove liz truss. what should happen if she doesn't reverse?— if she doesn't reverse? well, i think there — if she doesn't reverse? well, i think there are _ if she doesn't reverse? well, i think there are people -- - if she doesn't reverse? well, i think there are people -- i - if she doesn't reverse? well, i i think there are people -- i think think there are people —— i think those people doing that need to stop. we cannot have a leadership election, put a new leader in place and immediately start to discuss how we remove. they need get behind her and support her and how they do that is by engaging both with number 10, and ten need to start engaging with parliamentary party. i don't believe that liz is politically suicidal... sorry i am just answering your last question... but sorry i am just answering your last question- - -— question... but can you really say with a straight _ question... but can you really say with a straight face _ question... but can you really say with a straight face this _ question... but can you really say with a straight face this morning i with a straight face this morning that your colleagues should get behind her when you have gone public in the last few days the same she

has lurched to the right, that she doesn't have a mandate, but he has to ditch her policies? some viewers might think this morning that you and others are part of the problem. i am wondering —— and willjust be wondering why the conservative party cannot get its act together. the conservative _ cannot get its act together. tue: conservative party cannot get its act together. t'te: conservative party was cannot get its act together. ttl: conservative party was 30 cannot get its act together. ttl conservative party was 30 points behind, actually 38 points behind in the redwall seats before i even made an utterance. so i think at the time when the party is failing so badly does remember it is still was five point behind on the day boris johnson was removed. when the parties in such a dangerous position it is incumbent upon mps to discuss with number 10 and with the leader what we think is the right way forward because we all know our constituencies and we know what our voters voted for. i would say it is time now for ten and four liz truss just like sitting down with conservative mps and discussing what it is that we need to do to move the party forward, to reduce that deficit in the polls. i would

suggest that you know, one of her policies i completely agree with. we need right now in the uk 3000 spanish telecommunications engineers who are in spain. we need suella to say they don't need the english—language test to have a short—term visa to come here and help with the gigabit roll—out programme. that would get was from 70% to 95% gigabit. that is an agenda for growth. some of the policies i absolutely agree with what she needs to discuss with backbench mps and decide how to go forward. d0 backbench mps and decide how to go forward. ,, backbench mps and decide how to go forward. , :, ., backbench mps and decide how to go forward. i. ., i. forward. do you feel that you clearly feel — forward. do you feel that you clearly feel an _ forward. do you feel that you clearly feel an obligation - forward. do you feel that you clearly feel an obligation to l forward. do you feel that you - clearly feel an obligation to speak out about how bad things are. can you see a situation where boris johnson returns as prime minister? you speak to him often tell.- you speak to him often tell. er... so the only _ you speak to him often tell. er... so the only message _ you speak to him often tell. er... so the only message from - you speak to him often tell. er... so the only message from boris l so the only message from boris johnson to anyone is to support liz and back care. for that to happen, there is no process for that to

happen, i think it would take a bizarre reversal of what normally happens. instead of graham brady going to see him without revolver i think he would need to take an olive it is something mps would have to want. it is not something boris johnson is even thinking about. but could it happen was i notice you are not ruling out. i could it happen was i notice you are not ruling out-— not ruling out. i doubt... i have been in politics _ not ruling out. i doubt... i have been in politics a _ not ruling out. i doubt... i have been in politics a long - not ruling out. i doubt... i have been in politics a long time, . not ruling out. i doubt... i have been in politics a long time, i l been in politics a long time, i don't rule anything out, but i would say it is highly, extremely unlikely. say it is highly, extremely unlikely-— say it is highly, extremely unlikel . :, , unlikely. 0k. nadine dorries, carefully not _ unlikely. 0k. nadine dorries, carefully not quite _ unlikely. 0k. nadine dorries, carefully not quite ruling - unlikely. 0k. nadine dorries, carefully not quite ruling out| unlikely. 0k. nadine dorries, | carefully not quite ruling out a return of borisjohnson. thank you so muchjoining us from the cotswolds this morning. lets get away from politics for a moment. take a breath. you might know him asjimmy perez, the brooding detective with a trademark peacoat managing not to shiver on shetland. the actor douglas henshall spent nearly a decade playing the character in the massive hit drama, with fans all around the world. but having upset fans around the world by leaving, he's now back in the theatre

with a new play that re—tells the brutal downfall of mary queen of scots. we'll be talking to him in just a second but first, we had a look at rehearsals ahead of its opening night. in the meantime, you stay here, missus. there's no—one you can go and talk to, is there? you cannae make me. aye, ican. son, this is going to turn around. the wheel will turn, the wheel always turns. a canny man sees it moving and gets himself onto the half going up while the rest goes doon. so you get that gate open, you come and see me in a few weeks. i can't do that. that's... those are not my orders. well, you need to start taking your orders from me now. that's what you need to be doing. you can see that, eh? i could see you raising an eyebrow watching that. we will talk about the play in just a second but most people watching this morning know you from shetland. why did you leave? :, , :, , :,

leave? i... to be honest, i thought we had murdered _ leave? i... to be honest, i thought we had murdered enough - leave? i... to be honest, i thought we had murdered enough people i leave? i... to be honest, i thought| we had murdered enough people on leave? i... to be honest, i thought. we had murdered enough people on a small island. laughter ten years is a very big chunk of time. i think we have explored his personal story, time. i think we have explored his personalstory, i time. i think we have explored his personal story, i think all of the ends of those threads when needing to be tied up in some ways. can ends of those threads when needing to be tied up in some ways.- to be tied up in some ways. can the programme — to be tied up in some ways. can the programme exist — to be tied up in some ways. can the programme exist without _ to be tied up in some ways. can the programme exist without that - programme exist without that character? they are going on, you have said it is weird for them to be filming it, or it feels weird for you. is it right that it is going on? :, you. is it right that it is going on? ., ., , you. is it right that it is going on? :, :, , , on? yeah. i am very happy it is auoin on? yeah. i am very happy it is going on _ on? yeah. i am very happy it is going on and — on? yeah. i am very happy it is going on and l— on? yeah. i am very happy it is going on and i hope _ on? yeah. i am very happy it is going on and i hope it - on? yeah. i am very happy it is going on and i hope it does - on? yeah. i am very happy it is. going on and i hope it does well, on? yeah. i am very happy it is- going on and i hope it does well, it means there is a lot more work for scottish actors, more work for the crew commit more money coming in for the islands. ijust hope they don't make a mess of it, that is all white do you think it should carry on? you obviously feel _ do you think it should carry on? you obviously feel that the ends were tied up, maybe they have been too many murders. was it the right thing? i many murders. was it the right thin ? ~ ., , many murders. was it the right thin ? ~ .,, ., many murders. was it the right thin? ~ :,, ., .,, �* thing? i think it was and i wasn't auoin to thing? i think it was and i wasn't

going to leave- _ thing? i think it was and i wasn't going to leave. david _ thing? i think it was and i wasn't going to leave. david and - thing? i think it was and i wasn't going to leave. david and i - thing? i think it was and i wasn't going to leave. david and i have| thing? i think it was and i wasn't i going to leave. david and i have to series five sat down and thought, how many of these can we credibly do? we thought if we did another two seasons we katai up and ended well but that was to end the whole show. not just to but that was to end the whole show. notjust to end jimmy peres. that bbc had decided they were going to resurrect it and we invented it to a degree so it will not be the show i was in that it gives them room to do something different. find was in that it gives them room to do something different.— was in that it gives them room to do something different. and more work for scottish actors. _ something different. and more work for scottish actors. we _ something different. and more work for scottish actors. we are _ for scottish actors. we are surrounded by scottish history in this beautiful gallery in aberdeen. your play is about to open. what made you want to do a play about mary queen of scots? and extra new character from the neck from history but for those not familiar with her, what was the appeal?— but for those not familiar with her, what was the appeal? appeal was this was rona's particular _ what was the appeal? appeal was this was rona's particular play, _ what was the appeal? appeal was this was rona's particular play, it - what was the appeal? appeal was this was rona's particular play, it is - was rona's particular play, it is not conventional, it centres around events that happened at dunbar castle and it has taken a modern

sensibility to look back at those events and see it through the prism of consent, really, and it... it was actually my wife, when she read it, she said "you are doing this". i think what rona has done is pretty ground—breaking but it is a brutal play. it ground-breaking but it is a brutal .la , , ., ground-breaking but it is a brutal -la . , ., ., ground-breaking but it is a brutal play. it is, and when i read it, you see all these _ play. it is, and when i read it, you see all these issues _ play. it is, and when i read it, you see all these issues between - play. it is, and when i read it, you see all these issues between meni play. it is, and when i read it, you - see all these issues between men and women and it is set in the 16th century in the context of something that really happened. but from your reading of it, what does it tell us? it tells us that mary queen of scots was raped, that is the most important thing it tells us. why didn't i know about that? basically because a group of men signed a document into law saying she was not in orderforjames vi, document into law saying she was not in order forjames vi, james the first and sixth to be able to save face that we allow this to happen to

our queen. there would have been a huge embarrassment, i would imagine, they thought. history said she was not. , , ., , , they thought. history said she was not. , , , ., they thought. history said she was not. , not. this player tells a different truth. it not. this player tells a different truth- it is _ not. this player tells a different truth. it is fascinating, - truth. it is fascinating, interesting to see how people respond when they see it. they had been talking to nicola sturgeon this morning about desk and still a very live conversation in scotland. you were sympathetic to scottish independence. can you see the question being settled now? you move back from london to live in scotland again. there is a line in the play which stuck in my mind, scotland is a nation which lives in argument. yes. i think, a nation which lives in argument. yes. ithink, around a nation which lives in argument. yes. i think, around the idea that john knox wasjust yes. i think, around the idea that john knox was just coming to the full at the time i play is set, with regards to... actually, i say the

line, we are a nation that lives in argument. at that particular time, we were looking for alliances with france and england. it was far more conducive to... we were going in the reverse direction and we are just now. i don't know i don't think you can ever settle an entire country's opinion, can you? can ever settle an entire country's opinion. can you?— opinion, can you? much as politicians _ opinion, can you? much as politicians might _ opinion, can you? much as politicians might like - opinion, can you? much as politicians might like to . opinion, can you? much as| politicians might like to try. opinion, can you? much as- politicians might like to try. thank you forjoining us in aberdeen. back to the modern brutal politics in government. the play opens later this month at the hampstead theatre. back to modern brutal politics, what's going on in the government? a few minutes ago, we heard nadine dorries say that there is no mandate for liz truss's new policies and that number 10 needs to step back and think again.

how can the conservative party put itself back together after the last few weeks? nadhim zahawi is a senior member of the cabinet — the one with the most obscure title, the chancellor of the duchy of lancaster. he's been writing today about unity. let's talk to him now. thank you so much forjoining us. nadine dorries has said liz truss is on borrowed time. can you see a situation where the party ousts her. i think what the party will d will get behind liz truss. why do i say that? as you havejust get behind liz truss. why do i say that? as you have just shown with my article, delay is a great enemy, division will cause delay. ultimately, if we do not deliver in the next 2a months on the growth plan, on the energy plan to make sure we invest in nuclear... i notice you did not ask nicola

sturgeon about why she is blocking investment in scotland, investing in more offshore and onshore wind and hydrogen and of course in gas. we produce our buy gas at the moment. we are asking you questions this morning. is it sensible for the government to be avoiding running a public information campaign telling people to cut back public information campaign telling people to cutback on energy plans? that row has happened in westminster this week. why don't you explain to people how they can cut costs and bills. :, ~ :, i. people how they can cut costs and bills. :, ~ :, :, :, bills. you know if you can go on the government — bills. you know if you can go on the government website _ bills. you know if you can go on the government website you _ bills. you know if you can go on the government website you can - bills. you know if you can go on the government website you can see i bills. you know if you can go on the i government website you can see lots of ways on how to cut costs as a business and a household. both the national grid and 0fgem are running a campaign to further explain to people how they can do that. that is a good thing. we did not want to spend a further £40 million of taxpayers money on a separate campaign. some of this stuff, you and your colleagues describe these

things as if it is some sort of a big divide. that is not true. what we are trying to do is deliver the economic growth plan, which we had, and the energy plan that will deliver, and we will demonstrate to the nation in 24 months�* time when we had done what we have done, how we had done what we have done, how we have performed. it can be measured. my role as chief operating officer for liz truss�*s government is to focus on delivery. delays are great enemy. that is why it is important to focus on the plan. we know their business department prepared an energy campaign to help people cut bills and energy use. we think they spent £50 million on it. why not roll out and prevent it happening?— why not roll out and prevent it ha enin: ? :, :, :, :, why not roll out and prevent it ha ..enin ? ., ., ., ., ”i happening? you have at the wrong way round. happening? you have at the wrong way round- what — happening? you have at the wrong way round. what the _ happening? you have at the wrong way round. what the prime _ happening? you have at the wrong way round. what the prime minister, - round. what the prime minister, quite rightly, as she has done, is to say we do not need to spend £40

million, £50 million on another campaign. if you go on the government website, on our platform, you will see how you can actually save energy stock that is, i think, being prudent with taxpayers money. it is not a divide, it is basically saying, we have both national grid and 0fgem doing work, a lot of the energy providers are also in direct contact with customers, as they would be in supporting them. it is right to spend our time, energy and money supporting 8 million households that as most vulnerable and now she has gone further and delivered an unprecedented energy intervention to cap energy costs for households, the average household will not pay more than £2500. that is the right thing to do with taxpayers money, the prudent thing to do with taxpayers money. i5 taxpayers money, the prudent thing to do with taxpayers money. is the to do with taxpayers money. is the government _ to do with taxpayers money. is the government preparing _

to do with taxpayers money. is the government preparing for- to do with taxpayers money. is the government preparing for the - government preparing for the possibility of blackouts? it is a very unlikely _ possibility of blackouts? it is a very unlikely scenario. - possibility of blackouts? it is a | very unlikely scenario. national grid put out its report, i chair the meetings on resilience. we have done a couple of things to make us more resilient. we have the same buffer in terms of energy as last year. we have made shall we continue to invest in our gas. gas production is “p invest in our gas. gas production is up 26% this year. we also have the second largest lng processing terminal in europe in the united kingdom. i am confident the resilience is there, people can enjoy christmas and feel the government is behind them, helping them with energy bills and also we have to make sure that resilience is in place. the way you do that is by working on all of these things, including investing in nuclear and renewables. you including investing in nuclear and renewables-— including investing in nuclear and renewables. you are preparing for the possibility _ renewables. you are preparing for the possibility of— renewables. you are preparing for the possibility of blackouts. - renewables. you are preparing for the possibility of blackouts. we i the possibility of blackouts. we hear your view it is unlikely and you are confident the government has

enough resilience to be able to cope. to be completely clear, you are preparing for the possibility of blackouts. let are preparing for the possibility of blackouts. , _, , , blackouts. let me be completely clear, it blackouts. let me be completely clear. it is _ blackouts. let me be completely clear, it is extremely _ blackouts. let me be completely clear, it is extremely unlikely. i blackouts. let me be completely. clear, it is extremely unlikely. we have the same buffer as we did last yearin have the same buffer as we did last year in the energy system. we have war on our continent. you are showing pictures of the bridge being hit, connecting crimea to russia. we have all on our continent, interconnected with our neighbours. in the extreme, unlikely event of several things having to align in a bad way, that is what national grid was talking about. i do not believe that will happen. we are making sure it does not happen by investing in our own. we produce our own and import half. we have is the second—largest terminal. if you look at centrica and others, what they had done, we take 3% of gas from russia. we are in the fortunate position compared with our

neighbours in europe. we are looking at every scenario. you would expect no less from the chief operating officer of the government to look at every scenario. it is extremely unlikely because of the measures we have taken. you unlikely because of the measures we have taken. :, :, unlikely because of the measures we have taken. :, ., ., unlikely because of the measures we have taken-— unlikely because of the measures we have taken. :, ., ., ., , have taken. you have made that very clear. another _ have taken. you have made that very clear. another thing _ have taken. you have made that very clear. another thing our _ have taken. you have made that very clear. another thing our viewers i have taken. you have made that very clear. another thing our viewers are l clear. another thing our viewers are perhaps starting to worry about a little this morning, what is happening with covid. the latest stats say one in 50 people have covid. there has been a warning about visiting elderly or vulnerable people. i about visiting elderly or vulnerable eo - le. :, , about visiting elderly or vulnerable --eole. ., people. i was the vaccine and deployment _ people. i was the vaccine and deployment minister - people. i was the vaccine and deployment minister and i i people. i was the vaccine and | deployment minister and i will people. i was the vaccine and i deployment minister and i will be getting my booster in the coming weeks as welcome as i am over 55. everyone who is eligible should get a boosterjab. the nhs has plans to be able to cope with both covid and winter flu as well. as i talked

about earlier, the focus on delivery, ea, b, c, d that to read coffee talked about. the ambulances backlog. —— therese coffey talked about. d0 backlog. -- therese coffey talked about. ,, ~ backlog. -- therese coffey talked about. ~ , , . about. do you think the public should start _ about. do you think the public should start to _ about. do you think the public should start to change i about. do you think the public should start to change its i should start to change its behaviour? it should start to change its behaviour?— should start to change its behaviour? ., ., , :, behaviour? if you have relatives or elderly people. — behaviour? if you have relatives or elderly people. get _ behaviour? if you have relatives or elderly people, get them - behaviour? if you have relatives or elderly people, get them boosted. behaviour? if you have relatives or i elderly people, get them boosted. be sensible, get yourself boosted. be sensible. we have brought the dharna, which protects against covid and flu, which is a good thing. —— we have bought moderna. and flu, which is a good thing. -- we have bought moderna. nadine dorries did not _ we have bought moderna. nadine dorries did not rule _ we have bought moderna. nadine dorries did not rule out _ we have bought moderna. nadine dorries did not rule out the i we have bought moderna. nadine| dorries did not rule out the return of borisjohnson. can you see that happening one day? tia.

of boris johnson. can you see that happening one day?— of boris johnson. can you see that happening one day? no, i cannot. the revious happening one day? no, i cannot. the previous prime — happening one day? no, i cannot. the previous prime minister— happening one day? no, i cannot. the previous prime minister is _ happening one day? no, i cannot. the previous prime minister is rightly i previous prime minister is rightly telling anyone who is willing to listen, and he is a friend of mind and i worked closely with him both in vaccines, as secretary of state for education and chancellor of the exchequer for for education and chancellor of the exchequerfor him. telling people for education and chancellor of the exchequer for him. telling people to get behind liz truss, delays are the enemy and ultimately defeat of keir starmer. nicola sturgeon talks about testing the conservatives. that language is really dangerous. i prefer to work with my colleagues on scotland and delivering their free ports, their green ports thejohn swinney and others. the ports, their green ports the john swinney and others.— ports, their green ports the john swinney and others. the clock is our enem on swinney and others. the clock is our enemy on the _ swinney and others. the clock is our enemy on the programme. - swinney and others. the clock is our enemy on the programme. thanki swinney and others. the clock is our. enemy on the programme. thank you swinney and others. the clock is our- enemy on the programme. thank you so much forjoining us on london this morning. a brief word with the panel. you had told me you are an optimist. do you feel more or less optimistic? i are an optimist. do you feel more or less optimistic?— less optimistic? i am an optimist. the reason _ less optimistic? i am an optimist. the reason the _ less optimistic? i am an optimist. the reason the uk _

less optimistic? i am an optimist. the reason the uk has _ less optimistic? i am an optimist. the reason the uk has a - less optimistic? i am an optimist. the reason the uk has a resilient| the reason the uk has a resilient energy system is because of past investments into renewables. we have the opportunity to expand further the opportunity to expand further the natural resources. we have expertise with carbon capture and carbon to help us out of the energy crisis. i carbon to help us out of the energy crisis. :, : ., ,:, crisis. i am cheerful about the prospects _ crisis. i am cheerful about the prospects for _ crisis. i am cheerful about the prospects for scotland, i crisis. i am cheerful about the prospects for scotland, the i prospects for scotland, the underlying trend is very much in favour— underlying trend is very much in favour of— underlying trend is very much in favour of independence. i am asking english _ favour of independence. i am asking english viewers of this, in 2015 they— english viewers of this, in 2015 they voted for david cameron and they voted for david cameron and they wanted a referendum on whether or not— they wanted a referendum on whether or not to _ they wanted a referendum on whether or not to leave the european union. imagine _ or not to leave the european union. imagine how they would have held had the european union said, you cannot have your— the european union said, you cannot have your referendums is that they were _ have your referendums is that they were justifiably have been very annoyed — were justifiably have been very anno ed. �* , :, were justifiably have been very anno ed. �*, :, :, ., annoyed. let's not get into that riaht annoyed. let's not get into that right now- _ annoyed. let's not get into that right now. alistair _ annoyed. let's not get into that right now. alistair darling, i annoyed. let's not get into that i right now. alistair darling, reasons to be cheerful. he started the programme feeling pretty gloomy about what has been going on. i haee about what has been going on. i have not cheered — about what has been going on. i have not cheered up _ about what has been going on. i have not cheered up in _ about what has been going on. i have not cheered up in the _ about what has been going on. i have not cheered up in the last _ about what has been going on. i have not cheered up in the last hour. i i not cheered up in the last hour. i am worried — not cheered up in the last hour. i am worried about _ not cheered up in the last hour. i am worried about the _ not cheered up in the last hour. i am worried about the prospects. not cheered up in the last hour. i. am worried about the prospects of

this country. — am worried about the prospects of this country. i_ am worried about the prospects of this country, i worry _ am worried about the prospects of this country, i worry about - this country, i worry about scotland _ this country, i worry about scotland. if _ this country, i worry about scotland. if you _ this country, i worry about scotland. if you have i this country, i worry about i scotland. if you have another referendum. _ scotland. if you have another referendum, you're - scotland. if you have another referendum, you're going i scotland. if you have another referendum, you're going to| scotland. if you have another i referendum, you're going to have divisions. — referendum, you're going to have divisions, uncertainty, _ referendum, you're going to have divisions, uncertainty, you're i referendum, you're going to have i divisions, uncertainty, you're going to have _ divisions, uncertainty, you're going to have insecurity, _ divisions, uncertainty, you're going to have insecurity, which— divisions, uncertainty, you're going to have insecurity, which is- to have insecurity, which is damaging. _ to have insecurity, which is damaging. not— to have insecurity, which is damaging, notjust - to have insecurity, which is damaging, notjust of- to have insecurity, which is damaging, not just of the i to have insecurity, which is- damaging, notjust of the country to have insecurity, which is- damaging, not just of the country as a whole _ damaging, not just of the country as a whole but — damaging, not just of the country as a whole but to— damaging, not just of the country as a whole but to us _ damaging, not just of the country as a whole but to us as _ damaging, not just of the country as a whole but to us as individuals. i a whole but to us as individuals. you have — a whole but to us as individuals. you have the _ a whole but to us as individuals. you have the same _ a whole but to us as individuals. you have the same thing i a whole but to us as individuals. you have the same thing from i a whole but to us as individuals. i you have the same thing from my point _ you have the same thing from my point of— you have the same thing from my point of view _ you have the same thing from my point of view. two _ you have the same thing from my point of view. two government's. point of view. two government's north— point of view. two government's north and — point of view. two government's north and south _ point of view. two government's north and south of— point of view. two government's north and south of the _ point of view. two government's north and south of the border. point of view. two government'sl north and south of the border and point of view. two government's i north and south of the border and i and very— north and south of the border and i and very depressed _ north and south of the border and i and very depressed at _ north and south of the border and i and very depressed at the - north and south of the border and i and very depressed at the picture i and very depressed at the picture they are — and very depressed at the picture theyare painting _ and very depressed at the picture they are painting. i— and very depressed at the picture they are painting.— sorry to end with a depressing message but fascinating. that�*s all for this morning at the end of this year�*s party conference season — "glastonbury for weirdos", as one insider described it. i would probably include myself as one of them. what�*s changed in the last few weeks? the snp�*s still locked in the "will they, won�*t they" be able to hold another vote on independence? the first minister told us she will never stop making the case, as she put it, "to give up on scottish democracy." to use a line from douglas henshall�*s new play, scotland is a nation that lives in argument — and that was from the 16th century!

labour is straining to look like an alternative government — while the conservatives are, there�*s no other way of saying it, in disarray. more importantly than any of that many of the public worry about making ends meet and what this winter really has in store. plenty for politicians to get on with when they get back to westminster next week. if you want to catch up from anything from today you can check it out on iplayer — but that�*s all for now, see you next week. goodbye.

this is bbc news broadcasting in the uk and around the globe. our top stories... russia investigates how and what caused the explosion that severely damaged its state—of—the—art and well defended bridge to crimea. officials in the ukrainian city of zaporizhzhia say 70 people have been killed by a russian missile strike on an apartment block. in iran, protesters appear to hack at a state—run television as demonstrations against the regime continue. # i can see for miles and miles... and a retrospective on the who in a new interactive exhibition.