good morning. liz truss' first chancellor good morning. liz truss�* first chancellor lasted 38 dales. later we will hear from the new one. this week has been chaos. you may ask, who is in charge? is she? we week has been chaos. you may ask, who is in charge? is she?— week has been chaos. you may ask, who is in charge? is she? we need to act now to reassure _ who is in charge? is she? we need to act now to reassure the _ who is in charge? is she? we need to act now to reassure the markets - who is in charge? is she? we need to act now to reassure the markets of. act now to reassure the markets of our fiscal discipline. he act now to reassure the markets of our fiscal discipline.— our fiscal discipline. he is certainly _ our fiscal discipline. he is certainly not _ our fiscal discipline. he is certainly not any - our fiscal discipline. he is certainly not any more. . our fiscal discipline. he is - certainly not any more. kwasi kwarteng got off the plane to get sacked. d0 kwarteng got off the plane to get sacked. , ., . kwarteng got off the plane to get sacked. ,, ., ., , ., kwarteng got off the plane to get sacked. ., ., , ., sacked. do you have any faith you can restore _ sacked. do you have any faith you can restore the _ sacked. do you have any faith you can restore the financial - sacked. do you have any faith you can restore the financial markets, sir. can restore the financial markets, sir~ is _ can restore the financial markets, sir. , ., sir. is it him? the fourth chancellor _ sir. is it him? the fourth chancellor in _ sir. is it him? the fourth chancellor in four- sir. is it him? the fourth l chancellor in four months.

sir. is it him? the fourth - chancellor in four months. his sir. is it him? the fourth _ chancellor in four months. his first act was to ditch liz truss�* plans. we will not be able to cut taxes as quickly as we want to and some will have to go up. we quickly as we want to and some will have to go unm— quickly as we want to and some will have to go up. we now at the mercy ofthe have to go up. we now at the mercy of the mighty _ have to go up. we now at the mercy of the mighty markets? _ have to go up. we now at the mercy of the mighty markets? he - have to go up. we now at the mercy of the mighty markets? he wouldn't of the mighty markets? he wouldn�*t be the only one to wonder what on earth is going on. so we have one big question this morning... who is really in charge? this morning, we�*ll hear from the man tasked with saving the economy and liz truss�* premiership — her new chancellor, jeremy hunt. and, as labour keep hold of their huge lead in the polls, i�*ll be speaking to man who wants to be in charge in business in this country — the shadow business secretary, jonathan reynolds. and we�*ll hear from the husband and wife team who designed the first covid vaccine. pfizer biontech�*s professors ugur sahin and ozlem tureci say a cure for cancer is within their grasp. and joining me on the panel throughout the programme is the chair of tesco, john allan, the trade union unison�*s general secretary, christina mcanea,

and the former health secretary now on the backbenches, matt hancock. hello and good morning. through brexit, through jeremy corbyn, through the last financial crisis, i�*ve never seen a week like the last seven days — a total smash up of politics and economics, a mess engulfing a new prime minister just weeks into the job, but also this morning you will want to watch the interview with the two incredible biontech scientists — they were behind the first covid vaccine and have hopes their technoloigy could transform cancer treatment too. you can see that in about half

an hour but we have to start with the political meltdown that�*s been hard to ignore. matt hancock, you�*ve been in your suffolk consituency. what have people been saying to you? it is clear to everybody this needs fixing, it needs sorting. we have a significant political problem and thatis significant political problem and that is a result of a set of policies that were uncosted and underfunded and that approach was never going to work and it hasn�*t worked and i am glad the government is now committed to the sort of financial discipline that is absolutely necessary and bread and butter to any conservative administration. we can set aside, once and for all, these ideas you can go for underfunded policies and they might work. it was funny, in they might work. it was funny, in the intro you said who is in charge of the financial markets? they are the creditors, the people we have borrowed from, you have to take them

into account, you don�*t want to, but it is a reality. the into account, you don't want to, but it is a reality-— it is a reality. the front pages are sa in: it it is a reality. the front pages are saying it needs — it is a reality. the front pages are saying it needs more _ it is a reality. the front pages are saying it needs more than - it is a reality. the front pages are saying it needs more than be - it is a reality. the front pages are l saying it needs more than be fixed. they saying their to be a new prime minister. secret plot to oust the prime minister. the sunday times suggesting it isjeremy hunt in charge. the observer is saying the tories are in talks to oust liz truss. john, what has been on your mind as you have watched the last few days? it mind as you have watched the last few da s? , ., mind as you have watched the last fewda s? , ., , few days? it is important we focus on how all — few days? it is important we focus on how all of _ few days? it is important we focus on how all of this _ few days? it is important we focus on how all of this is _ few days? it is important we focus on how all of this is impacting - few days? it is important we focus on how all of this is impacting on i on how all of this is impacting on people — on how all of this is impacting on people. personalities in politics i am happy— people. personalities in politics i am happy to lead to everyone else to sort out _ am happy to lead to everyone else to sort out. but the reality is, the movement_ sort out. but the reality is, the movement in interest rate is now going _ movement in interest rate is now going to — movement in interest rate is now going to lead to much higher mortgage rates for millions of people. — mortgage rates for millions of people, predicted 7 million people facing _ people, predicted 7 million people facing a _ people, predicted 7 million people facing a doubling of their mortgages liy facing a doubling of their mortgages by the _ facing a doubling of their mortgages by the end of 2024. of people are struggling with the existing elements of the cost of living

crisis. — elements of the cost of living crisis, food and so on. while the politicians — crisis, food and so on. while the politicians are getting on with sorting — politicians are getting on with sorting the politics, we have a moral— sorting the politics, we have a moral responsibility to look after the people who, in the real world, are being — the people who, in the real world, are being impacted by this. christina, a moral responsibility? i agree withjohn, this is serious, this isn't— agree withjohn, this is serious, this isn't the _ agree withjohn, this is serious, this isn't the time _ agree withjohn, this is serious, this isn't the time for— agree withjohn, this is serious, this isn't the time for the - this isn't the time for the conservative _ this isn't the time for thei conservative government this isn't the time for the i conservative government to this isn't the time for the - conservative government to start playing _ conservative government to start playing musical— conservative government to start playing musical chairs _ conservative government to start playing musical chairs with - conservative government to start playing musical chairs with who l conservative government to start| playing musical chairs with who is in charge — playing musical chairs with who is in charge it— playing musical chairs with who is in charge it is— playing musical chairs with who is in charge. it is far— playing musical chairs with who is in charge. it is far too— playing musical chairs with who is in charge. it is far too serious- playing musical chairs with who is in charge. it is far too serious for| in charge. it is far too serious for that _ in charge. it is far too serious for that nobody— in charge. it is far too serious for that. nobody voted _ in charge. it is far too serious for that. nobody voted for _ in charge. it is far too serious for that. nobody voted for this, - in charge. it is far too serious fori that. nobody voted for this, they have _ that. nobody voted for this, they have no— that. nobody voted for this, they have no mandate _ that. nobody voted for this, they have no mandate for— that. nobody voted for this, they have no mandate for this. - that. nobody voted for this, they have no mandate for this. we - that. nobody voted for this, they i have no mandate for this. we have had 12_ have no mandate for this. we have had 12 years — have no mandate for this. we have had 12 years of _ have no mandate for this. we have had 12 years of a _ have no mandate for this. we have had 12 years of a conservative - had 12 years of a conservative government _ had 12 years of a conservative government and _ had 12 years of a conservative government and liz— had 12 years of a conservative government and liz truss - had 12 years of a conservative i government and liz truss comes had 12 years of a conservative - government and liz truss comes in, not only— government and liz truss comes in, not only does — government and liz truss comes in, not only does she _ government and liz truss comes in, not only does she trash _ government and liz truss comes in, not only does she trash the - government and liz truss comes in, i not only does she trash the economy, she trashed _ not only does she trash the economy, she trashed the — not only does she trash the economy, she trashed the party— not only does she trash the economy, she trashed the party record - not only does she trash the economy, she trashed the party record in - she trashed the party record in terms — she trashed the party record in terms of— she trashed the party record in terms of what _ she trashed the party record in terms of what has _ she trashed the party record in terms of what has been - she trashed the party record in - terms of what has been happening over the _ terms of what has been happening over the past— terms of what has been happening over the past 12 _ terms of what has been happening over the past 12 years. _ terms of what has been happening over the past 12 years. it - terms of what has been happening over the past 12 years. it is - terms of what has been happening over the past 12 years. it is time . over the past 12 years. it is time for a _ over the past 12 years. it is time for a complete _ over the past 12 years. it is time for a complete change _ over the past 12 years. it is time for a complete change of- over the past 12 years. it is time l for a complete change of direction and give _ for a complete change of direction and give the — for a complete change of direction and give the british— for a complete change of direction and give the british public- for a complete change of direction and give the british public a - for a complete change of directionl and give the british public a chance to vote _ and give the british public a chance to vote. , ,., and give the british public a chance to vote. , ., and give the british public a chance tovote. , ., , to vote. inside some of the papers, the mail on — to vote. inside some of the papers, the mail on sunday _ to vote. inside some of the papers, the mail on sunday and _ to vote. inside some of the papers, the mail on sunday and the - to vote. inside some of the papers, the mail on sunday and the sun - to vote. inside some of the papers, the mail on sunday and the sun are i the mail on sunday and the sun are

suggesting, they are not quite calling for liz truss to go, but they seem to be inching that way. it is important, because they were supportive of the prime minister. just hearing christina and john, union leader and business boss saying, you have got to sort it out because people are suffering, are you embarrassed? i because people are suffering, are you embarrassed?— you embarrassed? i feel like it needs sorting, _ you embarrassed? i feel like it needs sorting, there _ you embarrassed? i feel like it needs sorting, there have - you embarrassed? i feel like it| needs sorting, there have been you embarrassed? i feel like it - needs sorting, there have been signs things are moving in the right direction. we will hear from jeremy hunt later. what is absolutely critical is to get the credible economic plan in place. that is the bread and butter of conservatism is to have credible economic plans. what we want to do is improve the life chances of people across the country. life chances of people across the count . �* ., i. life chances of people across the count .�* ., _ country. but are you embarrassed by what is going — country. but are you embarrassed by what is going on _ country. but are you embarrassed by what is going on because _ country. but are you embarrassed by what is going on because a _ country. but are you embarrassed by what is going on because a lot - country. but are you embarrassed by what is going on because a lot of- what is going on because a lot of viewers will have watched the last seven days and thought, the conservative party are again in this turmoil, they cannot decide what to do and now contemplating changing

leader? ., ., ., ., leader? coming together and having uni as a leader? coming together and having unity as a party _ leader? coming together and having unity as a party is — leader? coming together and having unity as a party is incredibly - unity as a party is incredibly important. you won�*t hear me saying things like we need to get rid of the prime minister now and all of that. what i think is we need to get the plan in place and we need to bring the party together behind that. but to get unity, you need to earn unity. that takes leadership and that is what we need through tough times. this and that is what we need through tough times-— tough times. this isn't about the conservative _ tough times. this isn't about the conservative party, _ tough times. this isn't about the conservative party, it _ tough times. this isn't about the conservative party, it is - tough times. this isn't about the conservative party, it is about i tough times. this isn't about the l conservative party, it is about the country _ conservative party, it is about the country and — conservative party, it is about the country and that _ conservative party, it is about the country and that is _ conservative party, it is about the country and that is the _ conservative party, it is about the country and that is the problem, i conservative party, it is about the . country and that is the problem, the conservative — country and that is the problem, the conservative party— country and that is the problem, the conservative party are _ country and that is the problem, the conservative party are only- conservative party are only concerned _ conservative party are only concerned with _ conservative party are only concerned with how - conservative party are only concerned with how they i conservative party are only. concerned with how they will conservative party are only- concerned with how they will survive the next _ concerned with how they will survive the next election, _ concerned with how they will survive the next election, how— concerned with how they will survive the next election, how will- concerned with how they will survive the next election, how will their- the next election, how will their reputation? _ the next election, how will their reputation? they— the next election, how will their reputation? they have - the next election, how will their reputation? they have lost - the next election, how will their reputation? they have lost the i reputation? they have lost the reputation _ reputation? they have lost the reputation of _ reputation? they have lost the reputation of being _ reputation? they have lost the reputation of being fiscally- reputation of being fiscally competent _ reputation of being fiscally competent. now— reputation of being fiscally competent. now is - reputation of being fiscally competent. now is not- reputation of being fiscallyi competent. now is not the reputation of being fiscally- competent. now is not the time for them _ competent. now is not the time for them to— competent. now is not the time for them to continue _ competent. now is not the time for them to continue to _ competent. now is not the time for them to continue to play _ competent. now is not the time for them to continue to play games. i competent. now is not the time forl them to continue to play games. we need grown-ups _ them to continue to play games. we need grown-ups in _ them to continue to play games. we need grown—ups in charge _ them to continue to play games. we need grown—ups in charge of- them to continue to play games. we need grown—ups in charge of the - need grown—ups in charge of the country— need grown—ups in charge of the country and _ need grown—ups in charge of the country and sorry, _ need grown—ups in charge of the country and sorry, that - need grown—ups in charge of the country and sorry, that is - need grown—ups in charge of the country and sorry, that is not. need grown—ups in charge of the| country and sorry, that is not the people _ country and sorry, that is not the people in— country and sorry, that is not the people in charge _ country and sorry, that is not the people in charge of— country and sorry, that is not the people in charge of the _ country and sorry, that is not the i people in charge of the conservative party _ people in charge of the conservative party hie _ people in charge of the conservative pa . ~ ., ., , ., , , party. we will hear from you guys later in the _ party. we will hear from you guys later in the programme. -

now, i�*ve been meaning to say for a while, but we�*ve had a few things on — if you want to get in touch with the programme we would love you to. you can email me at kuenssberg@bbc.co.uk — i�*d love to hear your ideas or thoughts on what they�*re all arguing about. on social media you can use the #bbclaurak — and if you are one of those people who likes to know what everyone else is thinking and get analysis as we go — the bbc news live page is there for you — at bbc.co.uk/news. in a moment we�*ll hear from the chancellor — yeah, the fourth in four months — the man who is trying to salvage the government�*s reputation. but before we do, so much has happened this week your head might be spinning, so buckle up, let�*s remind ourselves what�*s been going on. it was only on wednesday that liz truss went to see king charles after prime minister�*s questions to be greeted with this. prime minister, your majesty. your prime minister, your ma'esty. your ma'es , prime minister, your ma'esty. your majesty. good * prime minister, your ma'esty. your majesty. good to h prime minister, your ma'esty. your majesty, good to see _ prime minister, your majesty. your majesty, good to see you again. since then things have gone from bad to worse for the pm.

on thursday, kwasi kwarteng went to washington for a meeting of financial leaders as his plans were taking a battering from the markets — but he was sure he was staying put. you will be chancellor and liz truss will be prime minister this time next month?— will be prime minister this time next month? . , ':: ::f ., next month? absolutely 10096, i am not aooin next month? absolutely 10096, i am not going anywhere. _ but by that evening he was summoned home on a commcercial flight to be sacked in person. liz truss hired his replacementjeremy hunt — who we�*ll hear from in a few seconds, on friday morning before taking part in a deeply surreal press conference where she said her "mission remains". my my priority is making sure we deliver the economic stability that our country needs. that is why i had to take the difficult decisions i have taken today. the mission remains the same. but does it really? when the chancellor has junked so much of her plan. i sat down with the new occupant of number 11 and asked him, who is really in charge.

well, i was pretty surprised to be perfectly honest. i�*ve been pretty happy on the backbenches for the last few years, but i�*m in public service. there is a very difficultjob to be done right now, and i talked it through with the prime minister and i wanted to check that she was happy that i�*m totally honest with people about the challenge. and we are going to have to take some very difficult decisions both on spending and on tax. spending is not going to increase by as much as people hoped and, indeed, we�*re going to have to ask all government departments to find more efficiencies than they�*re planned. and taxes are not going to go down as quickly as people thought and some taxes are going to go up. so it�*s going to be very, very difficult and i think we have to be honest with people about that. but the one thing i want to reassure families who are worried at home is that our priority, the lens through which we�*re

going to do this, is a compassionate conservative government, and top of our mind when we�*re making these decisions will be struggling families, struggling businesses, the most vulnerable people. and we�*ll be doing everything we can to protect them. i mean, it feels that the financial markets have been pushing the government around. do you think they�*re holding the uk hostage? well, no government can control the markets. no chancellor should seek to do that. it feels a bit like they�*re controlling the government, the other way round. well, there is one thing we can do, and that�*s what i�*m going to do, which is to show the markets, the world, indeed people watching at home that we can properly account for every penny of our tax and spending plans. and i think for people who�*ve got mortgages who want to know that, as interest rates go up all around the world, they�*re going up by the absolute minimum necessary in this country as well. they need to know that we�*re giving that certainty to the markets, and that�*s really the most important thing to do over the next two weeks. but why do you think you have that ability to calm everything down?

i mean, when the prime minister announced you as chancellor and when the prime minister said the corporation tax cut would be dropped still at that moment, the cost of borrowing went up and the pound went down. now, the markets have already given an instant verdict on her massive u—turn and indeed on your appointment. are you confident the markets are actually going to believe you? why can you give that reassurance? well, ithink, you know, for people trading in markets, actions speak louder than words. the prime minister has changed her chancellor. we are going to have a very big fiscal statement, a bit like a budget, in which we set out the tax and spending plans for several years ahead and that�*s going to be independently verified by the office for budget responsibility. we�*ve been honest that it was a mistake not to do that in the mini—budget before, and that is now going to be sorted out. now i know that you believe in transparency and honesty. you said you told the prime minister that you would be honest. where are you going to

cut public spending? well, i want to be very honest about that, but it�*s going to be two weeks on monday in the house of commons. and they�*re going to affect every single government department? every single bit of government spending is again on the table for potential cuts? i�*m going to be asking every government department to find further efficiency savings. and can you today rule out dumping the other tax cuts that liz truss has promised people? i�*m not taking anything off the table. i want to keep as many of those tax cuts as i possibly can, because our long term health depends on being a low tax economy. and i have very strongly believe that. it sounds, chancellor, like you�*re preparing the country for a period of hardship when mortgages are going to go up, rents are going to go up, and public service are going to be stretched and squeezed again. i mean, this is a return to austerity, isn�*t it? well, i was in the cabinet in 2010 when we had that first period of austerity. i don�*t think we�*re going to have anything like that this time.

but what i would say at that period... but people were not seeing their mortgages go up, people were not seeing their rent go up. people were not seeing interest rates on the way up. isn�*t this going to be worse? because at the same time as public services are going to be stretched and squeezed, and i know you want to be honest about this, but people in their own lives are also going to see their own costs going up and up and up, whether they�*re trying to put food on the table, trying to buy a house or trying to pay their business loan. well, the two things that i want to reassure people is, first of all, when it comes to people�*s mortgages, it�*s obviously a huge worry. interest rates are going up around the world because of what�*s happening in ukraine and the post... but we know specifically more here because of the decisions that have now been ditched. well, if i take the difficult

decisions that i�*m talking about, that is the best possible way to stop interest rates going higher than they absolutely need to because of these global factors. so that�*s the best thing i can do to help people worried about their mortgage. for people who are on the breadline, finding life extremely difficult... to those people, i want them to know this is a compassionate conservative government and we will be thinking about them at the top of our mind as we make these difficult decisions. but for people watching at home, we�*ve already lost count of the number of u—turns from this government. and you�*ve said very clearly this morning that much of what liz truss promised the public is now gone, disappeared, ditched. why can people now trust anything that this government says? well, she�*s been prime minister for less than five weeks. and i would just say this, the central insight that she campaigned on during her leadership campaign and the reason that i am honoured to serve as her chancellor, is that economic growth is the key thing that we need unlocking that paradox so we can move from half to 1% economic growth to 2.5%. but that�*s like saying that everyone

wants milk and honey coming out of the taps. i mean, everybody wants the economy to grow. what i�*m asking you is why people watching at home this morning can look at what�*s happened at total chaos in the last few weeks, the prime minister again and again changing her mind about things. why should they now be able to trust what she or what you are saying to them? because she�*s listened, she�*s changed. she�*s been willing to do that most difficult thing in politics, which is to change tack. and there�*s a second reason as well. you say it�*s milk and honey to talk about wanting economic growth. well, what we�*re going to do is to show notjust what we want, but how we�*re going to get there. the start of that will be the difficult decisions we take a fortnight on monday that show that we can fund everything we want and that we�*re doing what we can to keep interest rate rises low. but the second half of that will be the broader economic growth plans. the practical things that conservatives understand can make a real difference. and you will go ahead, you hope still to go ahead with things like easing planning

reform, easing red tape on business, those things are still going to happen — those parts of liz truss�*s agenda? well, we are going to go through the whole growth agenda. you�*ve talked about a couple of areas, but i could talk about the potential of our technology industry to be the world�*s next silicon valley, the potential of our life sciences industry to develop new medicines, the fact that we have one of the world�*s two great financial centres, there are lots of things that we can do to turbo—charge our economic growth and that is a central part of what this government will be doing. the strange thing about this, and i have to say, chancellor, actually, it�*s quite staggering, really, a few weeks into a new government to hear you this morning sitting and for reasons you�*ve explained very clearly, but basically ditching the entire thrust of what the prime minister wanted to do with the economy. who�*s in charge? you or her? the prime minister�*s in charge. really? yeah, and i think it�*s important when you talk about ditching things, the biggest element of that mini budget

was the energy price guarantee, where people�*s bills were heading for £6500. and we�*ve heard from her about that on many occasions. that will make a difference to many people. but her promised tax cuts are now not happening. she promised public spending would not be cut. you�*re now saying very clearly, for reasons you�*ve explained, that public spending might be cut. she has ditched central parts of her agenda. it�*s gone and it seems you�*re setting much the direction. she has changed the way we�*re going to get there, she hasn�*t changed the destination, which is to get the country growing. i think she�*s right to recognise in the international situation, the market situation, that change was necessary. but she is absolutely determined to deliver that economic growth that�*s going to bring more prosperity to ordinary families up and down the country. but i know, chancellor, you�*re not going to sit there this morning and deny that she�*s had to ditch much of her programme. you�*ve explained why that�*s happened, but she has ditched much of her programme and with so much

of her agenda gone, to be blunt, some of your colleagues are saying to me, what is the point of liz truss as prime minister? the things that she stood for, the things that she campaigned on have gone. and to be blunt about it, she�*s not there because of her rapport with the public. i mean, look at what�*s happened in the polls. many of your colleagues think it�*s over and that you are coming in as a real sort of last roll of the dice to try to help her out of something that is done. well, what i would say to those colleagues is two things. the first is that when i talk to my constituents in south west surrey, what they want is stability. and the worst thing for that would be more political instability at the top, another protracted leadership campaign. i think that�*s the last thing that people really want to happen. the second thing i�*d say is that when it comes to a general election, when the public give their verdict on this government, they willjudge us much more on what happens in the next 18 months than what�*s happened the last 18 days.

but do you look at liz truss in the last few days and think, blimey, there�*s a confident leader who�*s got a grip of what�*s going on in this country? well, i think she�*s been under extraordinary pressure. i know how difficult thatjob is, having seen many prime ministers at close range over many years. but i would rather a prime minister who recognises when things need to change, is prepared to take difficult decisions. you know, to change your chancellor is a very difficult decision for a prime minister to take. she�*s been prepared to do that. you saw liz truss yesterday when you spoke to her on the phone. how is she? i mean, you�*ve admitted it�*s difficult. it�*s obviously a difficult time. well, we�*ve known each other for very many years, and i appreciate the difficulty of the situation. but what i also saw in her was someone who is absolutely determined to do the right thing and someone who recognises that sometimes that means you�*re not going to be popular. and someone who recognises that some

of the ways she�*s tried to do things in the last few weeks haven�*t worked as planned. and, you know, she�*s willing to change to do that. she wants to get on with the job. and i think we should let her do that. you�*re sitting this morning, you�*re obviously determined to give a message to the country about stability after the last few weeks, perhaps after the last few years. why would our viewers take seriously a promise from a conservative politician that they can bring stability and markets have created created turmoil on the markets? there�*s been prime minister after prime minister, the psychodrama of the tory party leadership contest over the summer. why do you think that you can stabilise things? well, politicians can�*t control markets and i think it�*s very dangerous when they start to try to do that. what we can do is speak with total candor about difficult decisions and i appreciate that i haven�*t announced those decisions, but i want people to know that we are going to make those difficult decisions in lots

of areas, going to affect lots of walks of life in order to do everything we can as a government to bring back that stability. now, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. there�*s now two weeks in which we�*re going to go through a process of doing that. but i think what the country will see at the end of that process is a government that�*s willing to do the tough and difficult things, to secure the long term prosperity that we all want for our families. just finally, if, as many of your colleagues believe liz truss is on her way out, maybe in a few days, maybe in a few weeks, maybe in a couple of months, you might find yourself in a rather interesting position as chancellor, the man next door who�*s had leadership ambition before. would you run again? i think having run two leadership campaigns and, by the way, failed in both of them, the desire to be leader has been clinically excised from me. i want to be a good chancellor. it�*s going to be very, very difficult. but that�*s what i�*m focusing on. what kind of chancellor will you be — a nigel lawson, a george osborne? what kind of character?

well, i�*d be honoured to be compared to either of those two chancellors, but i think right now what people want is an honest chancellor. have they not had that? no, i don�*t say that at all about my predecessor. he tried to do some bold things. some of them didn�*t work out. but we have a very, very challenging situation. and i think above all, people want candor. thank you. jeremy hunt, who right now is on his way to check as i think, to try to find a way out of the crisis with the prime minister. matt hancock, is liz truss the best person to be the prime minister in the country right now? , ~ ., ., , now? yes, i think the idea of yet more instability _ now? yes, i think the idea of yet more instability under _ now? yes, i think the idea of yetj more instability under protracted leadership campaign is not what anybody is looking for. i think people will be very reassured by the interview with the chancellor, because he was really clear about the vital importance of getting a stable financial footing which is

the bedrock of all good policy. that wasn't my question and i noticed you wasn�*t my question and i noticed you said nobody wants a protracted leadership contest. a lot of your colleagues are thinking something different, this is such a mess that we have no option but to install someone to get yourself out of this hole? locate someone to get yourself out of this hole? ~ ., ., , hole? we are not there yet, the prime minister _ hole? we are not there yet, the prime minister needs _ hole? we are not there yet, the prime minister needs to - hole? we are not there yet, the prime minister needs to do - hole? we are not there yet, the| prime minister needs to do three hole? we are not there yet, the - prime minister needs to do three big things and you could see from the interview she has already started to do the first. the first thing is that economically credible plan and that economically credible plan and that means in a fortnight the plan needs to show debt falling, it needs to show not borrowing for current spending, you can�*t borrow on the never—never and if anybody thought that you could the last six weeks have shown that that is totally impossible. the second is that she needs to bring the broad conservative party into her government. aha, conservative party into her government.— conservative party into her . government._ she conservative party into her - government._ she needs conservative party into her _ government._ she needs a government. a reshuffle? she needs a reshuffle because _ government. a reshuffle? she needs a reshuffle because the _ government. a reshuffle? she needs a reshuffle because the reshuffle - government. a reshuffle? she needs a reshuffle because the reshuffle that i reshuffle because the reshuffle that she started her administration with, she started her administration with, she took the decision which was respectable but high risk to only

put in the cabinet people who had voted for her and that means that that�*s only a third of the conservative party in parliament. there is a huge amount of talent on the back benches. i�*m not talking about me, but there are many others who should be brought into government. the third is she needs to restore trust, trust with the voters but also not slagging off micro the institutions that are the bedrock of prosperity. organisations like the bank of england, like the office for budget responsibility, like the imf. you just can�*t go around being, saying that they�*ve all got it wrong. but around being, saying that they've all got it wrong.— around being, saying that they've all got it wrong. but matt hancock, that's a long _ all got it wrong. but matt hancock, that's a long list _ all got it wrong. but matt hancock, that's a long list of _ all got it wrong. but matt hancock, that's a long list of demands i all got it wrong. but matt hancock, that's a long list of demands and i that�*s a long list of demands and also some of your colleagues think it might be too late. if we look at the long read inside the sunday times today, with a litany of chaotic, rude, unpleasant briefings are suggesting the party is at each other�*s throat and that somehow her administration is broken and i note you said we are not yet at the point of a leadership contest. if liz truss does not do those three things

that you have just called for, can she stay on? i that you have 'ust called for, can she stay on?— that you have 'ust called for, can she stay on? i think these are the thins she stay on? i think these are the things that _ she stay on? i think these are the things that she _ she stay on? i think these are the things that she needs _ she stay on? i think these are the things that she needs to - she stay on? i think these are the things that she needs to do. i she stay on? i think these are the things that she needs to do. but l things that she needs to do. but she�*s already demonstrated last week... she's already demonstrated last week... ., ., . ., , she's already demonstrated last week... ., . . ., i, she's already demonstrated last week... ., ., . ., i, ., week... you are clearly setting out conditions. — week... you are clearly setting out conditions. you _ week... you are clearly setting out conditions, you are _ week... you are clearly setting out conditions, you are putting - week. .. you are clearly setting out conditions, you are putting her- week... you are clearly setting out conditions, you are putting her on| conditions, you are putting her on notice, if she doesn�*t do those things. i note you say she can stay. i am not putting her on notice, i�*m not getting into the question of changing the leadership, i don�*t think we need to do that because we need unity but what we do need is this plan to be executed. now, the prime minister has already made a very big shift in moving towards a position of economic responsibility and she set it out herself and her new chancellor is clearly on that track. �* ., , , track. bring the others in but i must say _ track. bring the others in but i must say to — track. bring the others in but i must say to you _ track. bring the others in but i must say to you if _ track. bring the others in but i must say to you if people i track. bring the others in but i must say to you if people who | track. bring the others in but i i must say to you if people who are conservative members and people on the right of the conservative party who wanted to shake up and looked at the last ten years and thought there hasn�*t been gross, it�*s all been a bit soggy centre, what do you say to them, because they feel let down and croissant betrayed? i them, because they feel let down and croissant betrayed?— croissant betrayed? i understand there are people _ croissant betrayed? i understand there are people who _ croissant betrayed? i understand there are people who are - croissant betrayed? i understand there are people who are in i croissant betrayed? i understandj

there are people who are in good faith have made arguments about a libertarian economic policy for many, many years, and i have always been of the view that you need fiscal responsibility first. now, we have tested those arguments about economic libertarianism and borrowing with unfunded, uncosted tax cuts. i�*ve always argued against them. it is now self—evident and for a generation nobody is going to try that again, because it didn�*t work because you have to maintain the confidence of the country, of the financial markets, of the parliamentary party, in order to govern, and so therefore let�*s get to the core economic values of all conservatism, which is that you put responsibility first and you allow people to build prosperity. it would re-resent people to build prosperity. it would represent all _ people to build prosperity. it would represent all conservatives - people to build prosperity. it would represent all conservatives and i people to build prosperity. it would l represent all conservatives and some people might disagree. christina, we want to talk about what you are involved in as well but first,

during that some of the interview, your eyebrows were shooting up to the heavens. what was on your mind? i was thinking we don�*t need to have i was thinking we don't need to have a protracted — i was thinking we don't need to have a protracted leadership election, we should _ a protracted leadership election, we should just have a general election. is should just have a general election. is that _ should just have a general election. is that realistic? how should just have a general election. is that realistic?— is that realistic? how can she stay on as prime _ is that realistic? how can she stay on as prime minister? _ is that realistic? how can she stay on as prime minister? she - is that realistic? how can she stay on as prime minister? she is i is that realistic? how can she stay. on as prime minister? she is fatally damaged _ on as prime minister? she is fatally damaged. she has no credibility. how she can _ damaged. she has no credibility. how she can distance herself after sacking — she can distance herself after sacking her chancellor, the two off then worked in tandem to present this ludicrous huge gamble that almost — this ludicrous huge gamble that almost ruined the country and now she thinks— almost ruined the country and now she thinks she can stay on as prime minister? _ she thinks she can stay on as prime minister? i'm sorry, ithink she thinks she can stay on as prime minister? i'm sorry, i think the conservative party has to actually tell her— conservative party has to actually tell her that she just can't do that — tell her that she 'ust can't do that. g ., ., , ., ., ., that. john, from the boardroom, do ou look that. john, from the boardroom, do you look to — that. john, from the boardroom, do you look to westminster _ that. john, from the boardroom, do you look to westminster across i that. john, from the boardroom, do | you look to westminster across from the city i think this government has any credibility? it�*s the city i think this government has any credibility?— any credibility? it's hard to see it at the moment. _ any credibility? it's hard to see it at the moment. i _ any credibility? it's hard to see it at the moment. i was _ any credibility? it's hard to see it| at the moment. i was encouraged any credibility? it's hard to see it i at the moment. i was encouraged by the interview— at the moment. i was encouraged by the interview with _ at the moment. i was encouraged by the interview with the _ at the moment. i was encouraged by the interview with the new— the interview with the new chancellor _ the interview with the new chancellor we _ the interview with the new chancellor we might- the interview with the new chancellor we might move the interview with the new- chancellor we might move into an the interview with the new— chancellor we might move into an era of economic— chancellor we might move into an era of economic responsibility _ chancellor we might move into an era of economic responsibility which i chancellor we might move into an era of economic responsibility which are i of economic responsibility which are words _ of economic responsibility which are words that— of economic responsibility which are words that matt _ of economic responsibility which are words that matt used. _ of economic responsibility which are

words that matt used. the - words that matt used. the implication _ words that matt used. the implication of— words that matt used. the implication of that - words that matt used. the implication of that was i words that matt used. the implication of that was we | words that matt used. the i implication of that was we had words that matt used. the - implication of that was we had an era of— implication of that was we had an era of irresponsibility. _ implication of that was we had an era of irresponsibility. but- implication of that was we had an era of irresponsibility.— implication of that was we had an era of irresponsibility. but we may have some — era of irresponsibility. but we may have some very — era of irresponsibility. but we may have some very hard _ era of irresponsibility. but we may have some very hard things i era of irresponsibility. but we may| have some very hard things coming down the track. i have some very hard things coming down the track.— down the track. i think there are three absolute _ down the track. i think there are three absolute imperatives. i down the track. i think there are | three absolute imperatives. one, down the track. i think there are i three absolute imperatives. one, we -et three absolute imperatives. one, we get stability— three absolute imperatives. one, we get stability because _ three absolute imperatives. one, we get stability because that _ three absolute imperatives. one, we get stability because that will- get stability because that will start — get stability because that will start to — get stability because that will start to pull _ get stability because that will start to pull interest - get stability because that will start to pull interest rates i get stability because that will. start to pull interest rates down and probably— start to pull interest rates down and probably start _ start to pull interest rates down and probably start to _ start to pull interest rates down and probably start to restore i start to pull interest rates downi and probably start to restore the currency — and probably start to restore the currency which _ and probably start to restore the currency which is _ and probably start to restore the currency which is something i and probably start to restore thej currency which is something that and probably start to restore the i currency which is something that is really— currency which is something that is really causing — currency which is something that is really causing problems _ currency which is something that is really causing problems at - currency which is something that is really causing problems at the i really causing problems at the moment _ really causing problems at the moment two. _ really causing problems at the moment. two, we _ really causing problems at the moment. two, we actually- really causing problems at the i moment. two, we actually look really causing problems at the - moment. two, we actually look after the people _ moment. two, we actually look after the people who — moment. two, we actually look after the people who are _ moment. two, we actually look after the people who are currently- moment. two, we actually look after the people who are currently most i the people who are currently most suffering — the people who are currently most suffering i— the people who are currently most suffering. i said _ the people who are currently most suffering. i said that— the people who are currently most suffering. i said that before. - the people who are currently most suffering. i said that before. and i suffering. i said that before. and three _ suffering. i said that before. and three it's — suffering. i said that before. and three it's not _ suffering. i said that before. and three, it's not enough _ suffering. i said that before. and three, it's not enough to- suffering. i said that before. and three, it's not enough to talk- suffering. i said that before. and i three, it's not enough to talk about growth, _ three, it's not enough to talk about growth, people— three, it's not enough to talk about growth, people have _ three, it's not enough to talk about growth, people have got _ three, it's not enough to talk about growth, people have got to- growth, people have got to demonstrate _ growth, people have got to demonstrate how- growth, people have got to demonstrate how they i growth, people have got to demonstrate how they are i growth, people have got to- demonstrate how they are going to achieve _ demonstrate how they are going to achieve it — demonstrate how they are going to achieve it. we've _ demonstrate how they are going to achieve it. we've had _ demonstrate how they are going to achieve it. we've had ten - demonstrate how they are going to achieve it. we've had ten years- demonstrate how they are going to achieve it. we've had ten years ori achieve it. we've had ten years or more _ achieve it. we've had ten years or more of— achieve it. we've had ten years or more of poor— achieve it. we've had ten years or more of poor relative _ achieve it. we've had ten years or more of poor relative growth, i achieve it. we've had ten years ori more of poor relative growth, what is going _ more of poor relative growth, what is going to — more of poor relative growth, what is going to make _ more of poor relative growth, what is going to make that _ more of poor relative growth, what is going to make that difference? i is going to make that difference? you mentioned _ is going to make that difference? you mentioned interest - is going to make that difference? you mentioned interest rates, i. is going to make that difference? i you mentioned interest rates, iwant you mentioned interest rates, i want to play to people what the bank of england governor said yesterday about what might happen next. we will not hesitate to raise interest rates to meet the inflation target, and as things stand today, my best guess is that inflationary pressures will require a stronger response than we perhaps thought in august. that means in other words they are going up and up and up. what�*s going

to happen to house prices? what is going to happen to people�*s ability to get a house, to rent? it going to happen to people's ability to get a house, to rent?— to get a house, to rent? it will have an impact _ to get a house, to rent? it will have an impact on _ to get a house, to rent? it will have an impact on house i to get a house, to rent? it will| have an impact on house prices to get a house, to rent? it will- have an impact on house prices and in the _ have an impact on house prices and in the short— have an impact on house prices and in the short term _ have an impact on house prices and in the short term on _ have an impact on house prices and in the short term on mortgages i have an impact on house prices and in the short term on mortgages butj have an impact on house prices andi in the short term on mortgages but i think if— in the short term on mortgages but i think if in— in the short term on mortgages but i think if in the — in the short term on mortgages but i think if in the long _ in the short term on mortgages but i think if in the long term _ in the short term on mortgages but i think if in the long term we - in the short term on mortgages but i think if in the long term we create i think if in the long term we create the reality— think if in the long term we create the reality that _ think if in the long term we create the reality that we _ think if in the long term we create the reality that we have _ think if in the long term we create the reality that we have got - the reality that we have got stability— the reality that we have got stability in _ the reality that we have got stability in the _ the reality that we have got stability in the longer- the reality that we have got| stability in the longer term, interest— stability in the longer term, interest rates— stability in the longer term, interest rates will— stability in the longer term, interest rates will come i stability in the longer term, i interest rates will come down stability in the longer term, - interest rates will come down which is what _ interest rates will come down which is what we — interest rates will come down which is what we need _ interest rates will come down which is what we need provided _ interest rates will come down which is what we need provided we - interest rates will come down which is what we need provided we have i interest rates will come down which i is what we need provided we have got a government— is what we need provided we have got a government which _ is what we need provided we have got a government which ever _ is what we need provided we have got a government which ever party - is what we need provided we have got a government which ever party it i is what we need provided we have got a government which ever party it is i a government which ever party it is that has, _ a government which ever party it is that has, can — a government which ever party it is that has, can clearly— a government which ever party it is that has, can clearly demonstrate i a government which ever party it isl that has, can clearly demonstrate is going _ that has, can clearly demonstrate is going to _ that has, can clearly demonstrate is going to be — that has, can clearly demonstrate is going to be different— that has, can clearly demonstrate is going to be different in— that has, can clearly demonstrate is going to be different in the - that has, can clearly demonstrate is going to be different in the future i going to be different in the future than its— going to be different in the future than it's been— going to be different in the future than it's been in— going to be different in the future than it's been in the _ going to be different in the future than it's been in the last - going to be different in the future than it's been in the last ten - than it's been in the last ten years — than it's been in the last ten years we _ than it's been in the last ten years. we have _ than it's been in the last ten years. we have slipped - than it's been in the last ten| years. we have slipped down than it's been in the last ten - years. we have slipped down the economiw _ years. we have slipped down the economiw i_ years. we have slipped down the economic... i saw— years. we have slipped down the economic... i saw a _ years. we have slipped down the economic... i saw a league - years. we have slipped down the economic... i saw a league tablei economic... i saw a league table which _ economic... i saw a league table which said — economic... i saw a league table which said ireland _ economic... i saw a league table which said ireland is _ economic... i saw a league table which said ireland is now- economic... i saw a league table| which said ireland is now number four in_ which said ireland is now number four in terms— which said ireland is now number four in terms of— which said ireland is now number four in terms of gdp— which said ireland is now number four in terms of gdp per- which said ireland is now number four in terms of gdp per head, . which said ireland is now numberi four in terms of gdp per head, we are number— four in terms of gdp per head, we are humber34~ _ four in terms of gdp per head, we are number34. you _ four in terms of gdp per head, we are number 34. you know, - four in terms of gdp per head, we are number 34. you know, we - four in terms of gdp per head, we i are number 34. you know, we have four in terms of gdp per head, we - are number 34. you know, we have way underperformed — are number 34. you know, we have way underperformed for— are number 34. you know, we have way underperformed for a _ are number 34. you know, we have way underperformed for a very— are number 34. you know, we have way underperformed for a very long - underperformed for a very long period — underperformed for a very long period of— underperformed for a very long period of time _ underperformed for a very long period of time and _ underperformed for a very long period of time and changing - underperformed for a very long i period of time and changing that underperformed for a very long - period of time and changing that is going _ period of time and changing that is going to _ period of time and changing that is going to be — period of time and changing that is going to be difficult. _ period of time and changing that is going to be difficult. now, - period of time and changing that is going to be difficult. now, i'd - period of time and changing that is going to be difficult. now, i'd likei going to be difficult. now, i'd like to hear— going to be difficult. now, i'd like to hear from _ going to be difficult. now, i'd like to hear from the _ going to be difficult. now, i'd like to hear from the government - going to be difficult. now, i'd likei to hear from the government after they got— to hear from the government after they got through _ to hear from the government after they got through the _ to hear from the government after they got through the thing - to hear from the government after they got through the thing at - to hear from the government after they got through the thing at the i they got through the thing at the end of— they got through the thing at the end of october— they got through the thing at the end of october very _ they got through the thing at the end of october very quickly, - they got through the thing at the | end of october very quickly, what they got through the thing at the i end of october very quickly, what is their concrete — end of october very quickly, what is their concrete plan— end of october very quickly, what is their concrete plan for— end of october very quickly, what is their concrete plan for growth? - end of october very quickly, what is their concrete plan for growth? i- their concrete plan for growth? i think— their concrete plan for growth? i think labour— their concrete plan for growth? i think labourare _ their concrete plan for growth? i think labour are already- their concrete plan for growth? i think labour are already to - their concrete plan for growth? i think labour are already to set l their concrete plan for growth? i. think labour are already to set out a ptah _ think labour are already to set out a ptah for— think labour are already to set out a plan for growth. _ think labour are already to set out a plan for growth. they've - think labour are already to set out a plan for growth. they've at - think labour are already to set out a plan for growth. they've at least| a plan for growth. they've at least put their—

a plan for growth. they've at least put their ideas _ a plan for growth. they've at least put their ideas on _ a plan for growth. they've at least put their ideas on the _ a plan for growth. they've at least put their ideas on the table - a plan for growth. they've at least put their ideas on the table and i put their ideas on the table and well— put their ideas on the table and we'll hear— put their ideas on the table and we'll hear more _ put their ideas on the table and we'll hear more from _ put their ideas on the table and we'll hear more from jonathanl we'll hear more from jonathan reynolds _ we'll hear more from jonathan reynaldo— we'll hear more from jonathan re nolds. ~ . . , , reynolds. wheel him and a second but ou've reynolds. wheel him and a second but you've acknowledged _ reynolds. wheel him and a second but you've acknowledged clearly _ reynolds. wheel him and a second but you've acknowledged clearly and - reynolds. wheel him and a second but you've acknowledged clearly and it - you've acknowledged clearly and it sounds like you are very worried about what a lot of your customers might experience in the next couple of months, but tesco, your projected profit is around £2.5 billion. would it be possible for big businesses to maybe absorb more of the cost? we are, we have taken our forecasts of profit _ we are, we have taken our forecasts of profit dowrr~ — we are, we have taken our forecasts of profit down-— of profit down. down to 250 billion? yes, a lot of profit down. down to 250 billion? yes. a lot of — of profit down. down to 250 billion? yes, a lot of businesses _ of profit down. down to 250 billion? yes, a lot of businesses are - of profit down. down to 250 billion? yes, a lot of businesses are more i yes, a lot of businesses are more than _ yes, a lot of businesses are more than that, — yes, a lot of businesses are more than that, we _ yes, a lot of businesses are more than that, we are _ yes, a lot of businesses are more than that, we are doing _ yes, a lot of businesses are more than that, we are doing the - yes, a lot of businesses are more than that, we are doing the best. yes, a lot of businesses are more i than that, we are doing the best to hold down— than that, we are doing the best to hold down prices— than that, we are doing the best to hold down prices and _ than that, we are doing the best to hold down prices and we _ than that, we are doing the best to hold down prices and we are - than that, we are doing the best to hold down prices and we are doing| hold down prices and we are doing best for— hold down prices and we are doing best for our— hold down prices and we are doing best for our colleagues, _ hold down prices and we are doing best for our colleagues, we - hold down prices and we are doing best for our colleagues, we have i best for our colleagues, we have 'ust best for our colleagues, we have just had — best for our colleagues, we have just had another— best for our colleagues, we have just had another wage _ best for our colleagues, we have just had another wage increase l best for our colleagues, we have i just had another wage increase for the people — just had another wage increase for the peopte oh— just had another wage increase for the people on the _ just had another wage increase for the people on the shop— just had another wage increase for the people on the shop floor, - the people on the shop floor, because — the people on the shop floor, because we _ the people on the shop floor, because we recognise - the people on the shop floor, because we recognise they. the people on the shop floor, i because we recognise they are the people on the shop floor, - because we recognise they are really being _ because we recognise they are really being adversely— because we recognise they are really being adversely affected. _ because we recognise they are really being adversely affected. let’s - because we recognise they are really being adversely affected.— being adversely affected. let's talk about -a , being adversely affected. let's talk about pay, christina, _ being adversely affected. let's talk about pay, christina, you _ being adversely affected. let's talk about pay, christina, you are - about pay, christina, you are balloting members at unison, more thani million people for the possibility of strike action and

sharon graham, one of your union colleagues at unite talking about coordinated action. talking about may be a million people going on strike this autumn, what is going on? i strike this autumn, what is going on? , ~ . ~ . strike this autumn, what is going on? , ,, , ,, , ., strike this autumn, what is going on? , 4' ., on? i genuinely think strikes are a s mtom on? i genuinely think strikes are a symptom of _ on? i genuinely think strikes are a symptom of a _ on? i genuinely think strikes are a symptom of a problem. _ on? i genuinely think strikes are a symptom of a problem. they - on? i genuinely think strikes are a | symptom of a problem. they don't cause the problem, they are the symptom. even the rhetoric we get, trade union barring, it is people who take strike action and they do so afterjumping through lots of hips because we have strict legislation. we are asking for pay to keep rate with inflation of give people a decent pay increase so they can live. john has already said, i know a lot of the big retail organisations have given people two pay rises this year. my members who work in the nhs, the nurses, physiotherapists, cleaners and the health care assistants have been

given £1400 flat rate. that's nothing for most of them. if you are in the main group of professional staff, nurses, physios, ambulance workers, it is about 4%. is it staff, nurses, physios, ambulance workers, it is about 496.— workers, it is about 496. is it what the country _ workers, it is about 496. is it what the country needs? _ workers, it is about 496. is it what the country needs? some - workers, it is about 496. is it what the country needs? some people| workers, it is about 496. is it what i the country needs? some people will be thinking, this is a hard time at the last thing we need is people causing disruption by going out on strike? ., ., , strike? that would be true if it hadn't been — strike? that would be true if it hadn't been for _ strike? that would be true if it hadn't been for the _ strike? that would be true if it hadn't been for the past - strike? that would be true if it hadn't been for the past 12 - strike? that would be true if it l hadn't been for the past 12 years where pay has not kept pace with inflation. pay has been kept down and we were told in the first five years of austerity we were all in this together. what has not delivered for public services? this idea that somehow public services is a drain on the economy is not true. it helped to revitalise the economy is in local areas because you get people who earn their money, they spend it and they will spend in tesco. if spend it and they will spend in tesco. , ., ., spend it and they will spend in tesco. ., ., , spend it and they will spend in tesco. y., ., ., , , tesco. if you go to the picket lines and there are _ tesco. if you go to the picket lines and there are strikes _ tesco. if you go to the picket lines and there are strikes across - tesco. if you go to the picket lines and there are strikes across the i and there are strikes across the picket lines, would you want the

labour front bench to be with you on the picket line? it is labour front bench to be with you on the picket line?— the picket line? it is a total distraction. _ the picket line? it is a total distraction. would - the picket line? it is a total distraction. would it - the picket line? it is a total distraction. would it be - the picket line? it is a total- distraction. would it be helpful to our distraction. would it be helpful to your cause _ distraction. would it be helpful to your cause if _ distraction. would it be helpful to your cause if labour _ distraction. would it be helpful to your cause if labour was - distraction. would it be helpful to your cause if labour was with - distraction. would it be helpful to | your cause if labour was with you? distraction. would it be helpful to i your cause if labour was with you? i don't think it makes a difference, i would like them as a party to be with us, and i think they will be when it comes to fighting for better pay, but on the picket line, it is immaterial. when you are on strike, it is not a game or therefore a photo opportunity, it is there people trying to make a point and get decent pay for themselves. irate get decent pay for themselves. we will be back to you in a bit. we'll be back to politics later. it's never very far away. but let's talk about something different that has affected every single one of us in the last couple of years. the number of people who've got covid has been going up again. let's look at the latest numbers from the office for national statistics — they show a rise of 31% in a week. around 1.7 million people had it in the uk. that's not a reason for panic — we're not back where we were during the pandemic. there are signs it may have peaked this time round.

but we all know how much the nhs is already stretched — with us heading into winter. as we talked about last week, senior doctors are already warning us to take care when visiting elderly relatives. that's susan hopkins, who said if you're not well, "avoid contact with elderly people or people more likely to have severe disease". and, nearly 90% of us have had two doses of the vaccine and the autumn booster programme is under way. remember though how it changed everything when the vaccines were discovered? we've been talking to the remarkable couple behind one of the most successful vaccines — ugur sahin and ozlem tureci — who worked on covid and still work on combating cancer. do they think the pandemic is over? we don't have a crystal ball and we would not dare to speculate in any way. we on our side make sure

that we are prepared for anything which could happen, monitor new emerging variants, try to understand the extent of danger there could be or could not be. and the worst could be that a new variant could come out and we can reduce the likelihood by wearing masks, because every individual who is infected is a motor for the evolution of the virus. and should people then still wear masks in public places or when travelling? should government still be encouraging people to do that? we are doing that. we are doing that, yes, we are doing that. everywhere you go, orjust in your workplace? it's interesting. in public places and places where there is too much of an accumulation, a gathering of people, in particular people who have been travelling, for example, and have been exposed to potential

sources of virus. on the covid vaccine, how have you reacted to people spreading information against vaccines, saying that vaccines don't work, the anti—vax movement that's grown up? how have you responded to that? the way scientists always respond — to continue to do their work and to be very transparent with their findings and the data. are you concerned at how some of the nonsense has spread so freely? should social media companies do more to stamp out on that misinformation? we need definitely ways to ensure that the true information is spread faster and more effectively, as wrong information. you can even see that as a scientific challenge — how to ensure to mark false

information and ensure that this type of information is not further spreading. you're known around the world for creating a covid vaccine, but seeking a cure for cancer has really been your life's work. what was your motivation to do that? we are physicians by training, and when we were young we were treating patients — oncology patients with advanced cancer. and we experienced that most of the times we had to tell our patients that there was nothing we could offer them. and we could only endure these sad situations because we were leading a double life. by day we were working on the cancer wards and in the evenings we were working as scientists, as immunologists at the bench, and were encountering the beauty

of science and of immunology, and that was the motivation for us to ask the question — how can we bring science, our science, to the patients? can you explain simply how the technology that you've developed works? so mrna acts as a blueprint and allows you to tell the body to produce the drug of a vaccine which you would otherwise produce externally, in bioreactors, for example. and when you use mrna as a vaccine what you basically do is that the mrna is the blueprint for the wanted poster of the enemy — in this case, the cancer antigens which distinguish cancer cells from normal cells. and we first invested our research towards finding and defining

those cancer antigens, which allow us to paint the wanted poster, and then we used mrna to communicate them to the patient�*s immune system. so if i've understood this correctly, your cancer vaccine would train the body to attack the cancer itself? yes, to recognise and attack the cancer. the goal that we have is can we use this vaccine approach, this individualised vaccine approach, to ensure that directly after surgery patients receive a personalised individual vaccine, and we induce an immune response so that the t cells in the body of the patient can screen the body for remaining tumour cells and ideally eliminate the tumour cells, and thereby reduce

or completely inhibit the metastatic relapses which would come two or three years later. and some people in the scientific community are still sceptical about whether mrna will provide an answer for cancer. is there still a chance that it doesn't work, it doesn't achieve the goal that you hope for? i don't think so, because everything we have learned about the immune system and about what we achieve with the cancer vaccine shows in principle the clear activity. we can induce those killer t cells, we can direct them. the question is, how, with which type of other interventions do we need to combine this? and what else do we need to tweak in order to have at the end of the day really patients'

cure, patients' survival? when do you believe this might be — cancer vaccines might be something that many patients around the world would be able to access? we believe that this will happen definitely even on a bolder scale before 2030. the success of the technology you've worked on for years was proven to the world with your covid vaccine. could a positive of the pandemic actually be that you find a way of defeating cancer more quickly than you otherwise would have done? yes, this is actually very interesting. what we have developed over decades in cancer, for cancer vaccine development, has been the tailwind for developing the covid—19 vaccine, and now the covid—19 vaccine and our experience in developing it gives back to our cancer work. we have learned how to better and faster manufacture vaccines,

we have learned about in a large number of people how the immune system reacts towards mrna. and not only we, also the regulators, have learned about mrna vaccines and how to deal with them, so that this will definitely accelerate also our cancer vaccine. you said before, i asked you, did you feel a cure for cancer is in your grasp? yes, we feel a cure for cancer or to changing cancer patients' life, is in our grasp. you know, scientists tend to show humility because nature and biology has so many secrets and you only

find out about them when you enter this unknown territory which we have been navigating since three decades now. every step, every patient we treat in our cancer trials, helps us to find out more about what we are against and how to address that. therefore as scientists we are always hesitant to say we will have a cure for cancer. we have a number of breakthroughs and we will continue to work on them. what's it like working together as husband and wife? because you are professor and professor, but husband and wife. do arguments come to the lab or arguments from the lab go home? what happens? it's actually easier than you would think! no arguments at all. you never argue?

we have scientific debates! but no arguments! i must also ask you about something else that's happening with a court case. biontech has been hailed with coming up with a vaccine, but moderna is saying you used some of their intellectual property to do so. what's your response to that? we can't publicly comment on that. but i must ask you that they say you copied two key elements of their intellectual property. do you think that you will be able to fight off that claim? we have made an announcement about this and i can't comment more than we have already said. our innovations are original. we have spent 20 years of research in developing this type of treatment, and of course we will fight for this, for our intellectual property. professor and professor, thank

you so much for speaking to us. thank you. a remarkable couple behind the biontech vaccine, a reminder that progress and good exciting things in the world away from what's going on in westminster. the wild conservative psychodrama has been answered by the public by notjust a dip, but a crash in the polls — there is a clear pattern that shows labour well on track to win the election, whenever it comes. but as the party doing more than profiting up the tories�* chaos. the man who'd be labour's business secretary if they won is jonathan reynolds, and he's here. is the new chancellor right that the state of the economy is such that they will have to be a squeeze on spending and tax rises quite yellow well, the latest chancellor, lets see how long he is in position for, i'm not sure what the government's economic policy is, i don't know which bits of the budget still apply

and i don't know what we'll hear next week. any cuts the conservative party brings forward are entirely of its own making, entirely because of its own making, entirely because of its own making, entirely because of its own incompetence, and i would just heed any conservative mp and ask them, where do they think they are going to find cuts? look at the state of the nhs, look at the state of the criminal justice state of the nhs, look at the state of the criminaljustice system, look at law and order in this country. i don't think they'll find that. we can't make decisions until we know what the picture is, it's speculation at the minute. it's clear that the conservative party has notjust done terrible damage to people's mortgage repayments and business investment but to the national finances as well. precise numbers by _ national finances as well. precise numbers by weight _ national finances as well. precise numbers by weight we _ national finances as well. precise numbers by weight we may - national finances as well. precise numbers by weight we may be i national finances as well. precise | numbers by weight we may be not national finances as well. precise . numbers by weight we may be not in 2023-24, numbers by weight we may be not in 2023—24, when there is a general election, we can't be sure of that, what we can be pretty sure of, the obr and imf, well respected number crunches, they are all clear that there is going to be a significant black hole in the country's finances. so i'll ask again, do you accept that there will have to be either a squeeze on spending,

potential spending cuts, or tax rises? i potential spending cuts, or tax rises? �* potential spending cuts, or tax rises? ,, . ., potential spending cuts, or tax rises? �* ,, . ., ., rises? i can't speculate. in our lan... rises? i can't speculate. in our plan" it's— rises? i can't speculate. in our plan" it'sa— rises? i can't speculate. in our plan... it's a simple _ rises? i can't speculate. in our plan... it's a simple question. | rises? i can't speculate. in our| plan... it's a simple question. i need to know, _ plan... it's a simple question. i need to know, there _ plan... it's a simple question. i need to know, there is - plan... it's a simple question. i i need to know, there is newspaper speculation overnight as to what the scale of the damage might be but you've got to know that before you make a decision.— you've got to know that before you make a decision. jonathan reynolds, that's not speculation _ make a decision. jonathan reynolds, that's not speculation about - make a decision. jonathan reynolds, that's not speculation about a - that's not speculation about a number here or there, everybody who is independent has looked at the state of the british economy right now and says there's going to be a whole and it's going to have to be filled somehow so that's a question on principle. we'll have to be a squeeze on spending and tax rises to get out of this mess? in squeeze on spending and tax rises to get out of this mess?— get out of this mess? in the plans we've already _ get out of this mess? in the plans we've already put _ get out of this mess? in the plans we've already put forward - get out of this mess? in the plans we've already put forward we - get out of this mess? in the plans we've already put forward we arel we've already put forward we are clear where we wish to increase day—to—day spending we will increase revenue to pay for that, for example we'd abolish the non—dom rule, that would bring in over £3 billion, weed tax private equity differently, private schools wouldn't be charities.— private schools wouldn't be charities. �* ., , , charities. but those are pennies... if ou charities. but those are pennies... if you wish — charities. but those are pennies... if you wish to _ charities. but those are pennies... if you wish to increase _ charities. but those are pennies... if you wish to increase spending, l if you wish to increase spending, the nhs workforce, breakfast clubs for young people, we will always

identify expenditure for that. we are committed to the fiscal rules where we will not borrow for day—to—day expenditure. we have a completely different economic philosophy as to how growth happens but also how you pay for things, we don't agree with borrowing money for tax cuts and it is the fiscal rules that will win out and apply. that is the rule set _ that will win out and apply. that is the rule set by _ that will win out and apply. that is the rule set by your— that will win out and apply. that is the rule set by your shadow - the rule set by your shadow chancellor where you will not spend money on the day—to—day stuff by borrowing in order to do it. taste money on the day-to-day stuff by borrowing in order to do it. we will borrowing in order to do it. we will borrow to invest _ borrowing in order to do it. we will borrow to invest as _ borrowing in order to do it. we will borrow to invest as part _ borrowing in order to do it. we will borrow to invest as part of - borrowing in order to do it. we will borrow to invest as part of our - borrow to invest as part of our industrial strategy, net zero and getting good jobs. it’s industrial strategy, net zero and getting good jobs. getting good 'obs. it's important for the getting good jobs. it's important for the audience _ getting good jobs. it's important for the audience to _ getting good jobs. it's important for the audience to understand l getting good jobs. it's important - for the audience to understand where you stand on what the government is actually doing, so there is a suggestion that a government might not cut income tax from 20p to 19 p. we had from the chancellor everything is on the table. if they do not put that income tax down to 19p, will you support that? ilrrui’eilii. 19p, will you support that? well, look, our argument _ 19p, will you support that? well, look, our argument on _ 19p, will you support that? well, look, our argument on what - 19p, will you support that? well, look, our argument on what they brought forward initially has always been that personal taxation is high because growth has been so poor over the last 12 years. we will have to

see what they bring forward. we honestly don't know what will happen. we'll have to see what the obr has said. happen. we'll have to see what the obr has said-— obr has said. accept your party's conference _ obr has said. accept your party's conference in _ obr has said. accept your party's conference in liverpool, - obr has said. accept your party's conference in liverpool, keir- conference in liverpool, keir starmer said to is very, very clearly that labour would support cutting that rate of income tax from 20p down to 19p. irate cutting that rate of income tax from 20p down to 19p— 20p down to 19p. we would have because it's _ 20p down to 19p. we would have because it's consistent _ 20p down to 19p. we would have because it's consistent with - because it's consistent with everything that we have said, that was before the conservative party set fire to the british economy, has caused... . ,, set fire to the british economy, has caused... ., i. , caused... can you tell us whether ou will caused... can you tell us whether you will support... _ caused... can you tell us whether you will support... as _ caused... can you tell us whether you will support... as soon - caused... can you tell us whether you will support... as soon as - caused... can you tell us whether you will support... as soon as we j you will support... as soon as we know what _ you will support... as soon as we know what the _ you will support... as soon as we know what the government - you will support... as soon as we know what the government is - you will support... as soon as we l know what the government is doing and what the obr forecast is. we have to go on information, not speculation. have to go on information, not speculation-— have to go on information, not seculation. ~ . ,, ., speculation. what did keir starmer when he said _ speculation. what did keir starmer when he said yesterday _ speculation. what did keir starmer when he said yesterday we - speculation. what did keir starmer when he said yesterday we should | speculation. what did keir starmer i when he said yesterday we should be clear about what fiscal responsibility, we should be clear about what that means, it means not being able to do things, good, labour things, as quickly as we might like. what does that mean? it means that the scale of the damage the conservative party has done is

evident, to personalfinances, to business finances and the national finances. people know, they don't expect a labour government can wager magic want and fix all these problems overnight and keir is being level and straight with people about that. ~ ., ., , ., ., that. what does that mean in concrete terms? _ that. what does that mean in concrete terms? we - that. what does that mean in concrete terms? we can't - that. what does that mean in concrete terms? we can't do | concrete terms? we can't do everything — concrete terms? we can't do everything as _ concrete terms? we can't do everything as quickly - concrete terms? we can't do everything as quickly as we | concrete terms? we can't do - everything as quickly as we would like because there's been a real and lasting impact on the british economy over the incompetence and disgraceful behaviour of the last three weeks but what people want is hope for the future, a government that has plan for growth and not a trickle—down fantasy of tax cuts and there is real commitment to public services and jobs in this country, they will get that from labour. people will hear you are not answering that specifically but it sounds like the message is a message to design to say it's going to be tough, we might have to cut spending and we'll have to put taxes up? no, it's not talking _ and we'll have to put taxes up? idrr, it's not talking about a return to

austerity but it's an acknowledgement, when the last labour government left office we were talking about seeing a gp in 48 hours, now the height of the government passed my ambition is two weeks. you can't turn it around overnight, getting the police in you can have a better plan for the future, you can give people hope for the future, you can make different that's what they will get. i'm struggling to hear won't tell us whether or not public spending will be cut and taxes will have to go up and i notice you keep saying we don't know what the government is going to do but if you can't tell us that central question, whether or not you will cut public spending, and people going to scratch their heads and think what labour is for? no, because first of all we can be _ be delayed and it was under the last labour government, our plans for long—term investment and industrial strategy, fixing business rates and

improving our trading relationship with the single market, all things are real and practical, changes that will improve things and where we want to increase spending we'll identify where that revenue will come from. that's what people expect. they don't want vague promises. they don't want a sense that you can just turn around the sheer scale of the damage that has been done, notjust in the last three weeks but over the last 12 years. three weeks but over the last 12 ears. ., , ._ , ., , three weeks but over the last 12 ears. .,, , . , ,., years. people may understand why you don't want to — years. people may understand why you don't want to make _ years. people may understand why you don't want to make specific _ don't want to make specific commitments because i have been so much turmoil, but it does sound like both by next election people have to understand that it will be a tough outlook, that you will not be able if you are lucky enough to win to suddenly do what you would like to, you are not going to turn the taps on and milk and honey will flow across the land? ihla on and milk and honey will flow across the land?— on and milk and honey will flow across the land? no one expects that, turned around overnight. the average household when they are remortgaging an extra £500 a month. of course that has a huge impact on the economy. you can't turn that around immediately. once you have lost

confidence, which the government have lost the confidence of the people who lend money to the government, you can'tjust turn that round. back. no conservative can restore the confidence that the government has lost in the last three weeks. it requires a general election and a fresh start on the labour government to do that. , ., .,, ., , , to do that. they would obviously challenae to do that. they would obviously challenge that _ to do that. they would obviously challenge that but _ to do that. they would obviously challenge that but thank - to do that. they would obviously challenge that but thank you - challenge that but thank you for giving us your views, jonathan right, we are getting to ten o'clock. we've heard some of how labour says they'd run things differently, but listening to the new chancellor earlier, whoever is in charge, the reality of what's happened to the economy, the tricky issues everywhere, and the damage that's been done in the last couple of weeks, means we face a hard time ahead. we are going to have to take some very difficult decisions both on spending and on tax, spending is not going to increase by as much as people hoped and indeed we are going to have to ask all government departments to find more efficiencies than they planned and taxes are not going to go down as

quickly as people thought and some taxes are going to go up.— taxes are going to go up. christina mcanea, you _ taxes are going to go up. christina mcanea, you are _ taxes are going to go up. christina mcanea, you are ahead _ taxes are going to go up. christina mcanea, you are ahead of- taxes are going to go up. christina mcanea, you are ahead of a - taxes are going to go up. christina mcanea, you are ahead of a big i mcanea, you are ahead of a big health union, more than a million members, how tough do you think this winter is going to be? it’s members, how tough do you think this winter is going to be?— winter is going to be? it's going to be horrible. _ winter is going to be? it's going to be horrible, quite _ winter is going to be? it's going to be horrible, quite frankly, - winter is going to be? it's going to be horrible, quite frankly, but - winter is going to be? it's going to be horrible, quite frankly, but it's| be horrible, quite frankly, but it's not inevitable that it's like that, so we _ not inevitable that it's like that, so we are — not inevitable that it's like that, so we are balloting about 400,000 nhs workers and we will be working with the _ nhs workers and we will be working with the other unions that are also balloting _ with the other unions that are also balloting and if we get a yes vote and we _ balloting and if we get a yes vote and we will get in some places then we will— and we will get in some places then we will be _ and we will get in some places then we will be taking members out on strike _ we will be taking members out on strike. nobody wants that to happen and as i_ strike. nobody wants that to happen and as i say— strike. nobody wants that to happen and as i say it's not inevitable. the _ and as i say it's not inevitable. the government could talk to us about— the government could talk to us about it so — the government could talk to us about it so we are in the middle of talks— about it so we are in the middle of talks in— about it so we are in the middle of talks in scotland, with the scottish government about this, i'm pretty certain— government about this, i'm pretty certain that mark drakeford and wales will talk to us about it, but i'm getting nothing from this government. they'll find time to get what do _ government. they'll find time to get what do you mean, nothing? i government. they'll find time to get what do you mean, nothing?- what do you mean, nothing? i have written to liz _ what do you mean, nothing? i have written to liz truss, _ what do you mean, nothing? i have written to liz truss, we've - written to liz truss, we've contacted therese coffey, nothing and the _ contacted therese coffey, nothing and the kind of comments we get there _ and the kind of comments we get there about if nurses don't like it they should just leave, i don't know

they should just leave, idon't know where they— they should just leave, i don't know where they were magic up all the extra _ where they were magic up all the extra nurses when there are huge shortages — extra nurses when there are huge shortages. will extra nurses when there are huge shortaaes. ~ ., ,, extra nurses when there are huge shortaaes. ~ . ,, ., extra nurses when there are huge shortales, . ., ~' ., ., shortages. will talk about that in the weeks ahead. _ shortages. will talk about that in the weeks ahead. john, - shortages. will talk about that in the weeks ahead. john, you - shortages. will talk about that in i the weeks ahead. john, you follow politics closely and you are a big businessman, do you feel like you are convinced by either side? you took a dim view of what's been happening in the conservatives but having heard from jonathan reynolds, are you willing to be persuaded? i think what both parties need to speu think what both parties need to spell out because we only have two choices in this country with our electoral system.— choices in this country with our electoral system. some people will disarree, i electoral system. some people will disagree, iwill_ electoral system. some people will disagree, i willjust _ electoral system. some people will disagree, i willjust say. _ electoral system. some people will disagree, i willjust say. and - disagree, i will 'ust say. and frankl i disagree, i will 'ust say. and frankly i don't _ disagree, i willjust say. and frankly i don't think - disagree, i willjust say. fific frankly i don't think we've seen a growth plan from the conservatives. i hope we will. we have seen the beginnings, i think of a quite plausible growth plan from labour so at the moment their ideas are on the table and many of them are actually one macro actionable and attractive and i wait to hear what the government has to say in due course but at the moment there is only one team on the field. matt but at the moment there is only one team on the field.— team on the field. matt hancock, final word to _ team on the field. matt hancock, final word to you, _ team on the field. matt hancock, final word to you, are _ team on the field. matt hancock, final word to you, are you - team on the field. matt hancock, | final word to you, are you worried your party is going to be terribly punished at the next election for

everything that has happened? i think it's vital we sort it out and -et think it's vital we sort it out and get off— think it's vital we sort it out and get off the _ think it's vital we sort it out and get off the hope _ think it's vital we sort it out and get off the hope for— think it's vital we sort it out and get off the hope for the - think it's vital we sort it out and get off the hope for the future. | think it's vital we sort it out and - get off the hope for the future. you see blancmange _ get off the hope for the future. you see blancmange from _ get off the hope for the future. you see blancmange from the _ get off the hope for the future. you see blancmange from the labour. get off the hope for the future. you i see blancmange from the labour party and the _ see blancmange from the labour party and the threat of _ see blancmange from the labour party and the threat of strikes _ see blancmange from the labour party and the threat of strikes that - see blancmange from the labour party and the threat of strikes that would . and the threat of strikes that would only get— and the threat of strikes that would only get worse _ and the threat of strikes that would only get worse and _ and the threat of strikes that would only get worse and so _ and the threat of strikes that would only get worse and so it's - and the threat of strikes that would only get worse and so it's in - and the threat of strikes that would only get worse and so it's in the - only get worse and so it's in the national— only get worse and so it's in the national interest— only get worse and so it's in the national interest that _ only get worse and so it's in the national interest that we - only get worse and so it's in the national interest that we pull i national interest that we pull together, _ national interest that we pull together, we _ national interest that we pull together, we put— national interest that we pull together, we put in- national interest that we pull together, we put in place - national interest that we pulll together, we put in place that planned — together, we put in place that planned that _ together, we put in place that planned thatjohn_ together, we put in place that planned that john was - together, we put in place that - planned that john was mentioning together, we put in place that - planned thatjohn was mentioning and that i've _ planned thatjohn was mentioning and that i've been — planned thatjohn was mentioning and that i've been calling _ planned thatjohn was mentioning and that i've been calling for, _ planned thatjohn was mentioning and that i've been calling for, and - planned thatjohn was mentioning and that i've been calling for, and we - that i've been calling for, and we have _ that i've been calling for, and we have a _ that i've been calling for, and we have a credible _ that i've been calling for, and we have a credible positive - that i've been calling for, and wel have a credible positive optimistic plan that— have a credible positive optimistic plan that can _ have a credible positive optimistic plan that can take _ have a credible positive optimistic plan that can take advantage - have a credible positive optimistic plan that can take advantage of. have a credible positive optimistic. plan that can take advantage of the many— plan that can take advantage of the many positives _ plan that can take advantage of the many positives that _ plan that can take advantage of the many positives that i— plan that can take advantage of the many positives that i going - plan that can take advantage of the many positives that i going on - plan that can take advantage of the many positives that i going on in i many positives that i going on in the welt — many positives that i going on in the well. , ., , ._ many positives that i going on in the well. , , ., the well. some people may prefer to blancmange — the well. some people may prefer to blancmange to _ the well. some people may prefer to blancmange to the _ the well. some people may prefer to blancmange to the chaos _ the well. some people may prefer to blancmange to the chaos we've - the well. some people may prefer to blancmange to the chaos we've seen j blancmange to the chaos we've seen in your party in the last couple of weeks. �* . in your party in the last couple of weeks. �* , . , ., , weeks. it's incumbent to pull it together. _ weeks. it's incumbent to pull it together. sort _ weeks. it's incumbent to pull it together, sort it _ weeks. it's incumbent to pull it together, sort it out _ weeks. it's incumbent to pull it together, sort it out and - weeks. it's incumbent to pull it together, sort it out and offer. weeks. it's incumbent to pull it. together, sort it out and offer that plan and _ together, sort it out and offer that plan and hope _ together, sort it out and offer that plan and hope for— together, sort it out and offer that plan and hope for the _ together, sort it out and offer that plan and hope for the future - together, sort it out and offer that plan and hope for the future and i together, sort it out and offer that. plan and hope for the future and i'm confident— plan and hope for the future and i'm confident we — plan and hope for the future and i'm confident we can do _ plan and hope for the future and i'm confident we can do that _ plan and hope for the future and i'm confident we can do that but - plan and hope for the future and i'mi confident we can do that but we need to make _ confident we can do that but we need to make it— confident we can do that but we need to make it happen _ confident we can do that but we need to make it happen.— to make it happen. testing times ahead or round, _ to make it happen. testing times ahead or round, thank _ to make it happen. testing times ahead or round, thank you - to make it happen. testing times ahead or round, thank you all- to make it happen. testing times i ahead or round, thank you all three of you for coming in this morning, it's been great to have your thoughts. now then, we began this morning by asking who is charge of the country. when i asked the new chancellor if it was him or his boss, he said, not that comfortably perhaps, it was the prime minister. he said too, very clearly,

that liz truss has changed — quite something to hear, when she's only a few weeks into thejob. but the most extraordinary thing wasjeremy huntjunking most of the prime minister's plan for the economy, the one she told us about in this studio only a few weeks ago, the one she stood by, again, two weeks ago in birmingham — the platform that got her elected by the membership of her party. but as the markets have battered the government's reputation, her credibility has been stretched to breaking point, as herformer as has been made clear this morning. the prime minister might hang on — don't be too quick to write her off. but whether she can stay in number ten won't be down to her — but the markets, her colleagues, her critics, her chancellor maybe, and all of you. so the answer to our question this morning of who is in charge? as we say goodbye today, it's not the prime minister on her own. as ever, you can catch up on anything you missed on the iplayer and there's tonnes more on bbc online. we will definitely be here this time next week — i'm not sure how much else

we can know. thanks so much for being here, goodbye.

ido i do think that coming together and having _ i do think that coming together and having that unity as a party is incredibly— having that unity as a party is incredibly important, so you won't hear— incredibly important, so you won't hear me _ incredibly important, so you won't hear me saying things like we need to get rid of the prime minister now and all of that. what i think it is we need to get a plan in place and we need to get a plan in place and we need _ we need to get a plan in place and we need to— we need to get a plan in place and we need to bring the party together behind _ we need to bring the party together behind that plan. i'm not taking anything off the table. i want to keep as many of those tax cut as they possibly can because our long—term health depends on being a low tax economy. this is bbc news broadcasting in the uk and around the globe. our top stories. the uk chancellorjeremy hunt tells the bbc that nothing is off the table over future tax changes, but says that the government will be compassionate. i'm not taking anything off the table. i want to keep as many of those tax cuts as i possibly can because our long—term health depends on being a low—tax economy.

china's president xijinping has been defending his controversial