this is bbc news. the headlines: the former british prime minister, borisjohnson, has abandoned his attempt to return to the job just months after he resigned — saying he won't stand in the race to replace liz truss. the front runner in the contest is the former chancellor — rishi sunak. china's leader, xijinping, has extended his rule for at least another five years and taken a firmer grip on power by promoting his allies. mr xi was again chosen as the general secretary of the communist party — the most important political north and south korea have exchanged warning shots along their western sea border. south korea's military said its navy fired shots to repel a north korean ship that had crossed into the sea boundary between

the north and south. north korea's military said it responded by firing ten artillery shots. now on bbc news, it's hardtalk with zeinab badawi. welcome hardtalk with zeinab badawi. to the special editio of welcome to the special edition of hard tour from the taiwanese capital, taipei. people here in taiwan which is self governed live under constant threat from china which lies about 160 kilometres across the waters. beijing claims taiwan as part of its territory, and in the past few months has carried out hundreds of military sorties near taiwan, hundreds of military sorties neartaiwan, leading hundreds of military sorties near taiwan, leading to speculation that it is

preparing for an invasion. taiwan has also been subjected to cyber attacks from china, my guest is the taiwanese digital minister, audrey tang. can taiwan really forge its own path? minister, audrey tang and taipei welcome to hardtalk. thank you, happy to be here. xi jinping reiterated at the recent china party congress that china wants to strive for the prospect of peaceful reunification from taiwan and he will never give up the option to use force. some up briefly the mood and reaction to that? , ., ., ., to that? there is a familiar message — to that? there is a familiar message we _ to that? there is a familiar message we have - to that? there is a familiar message we have been - to that? there is a familiar - message we have been hearing that for quite some time, of we

had to prepare ourselves to face the authoritarian expansionism but that has been the case for as long as i can remember. 50 the case for as long as i can rmember-— the case for as long as i can remember. , ., , ., ., remember. so people have not been at all _ remember. so people have not been at all worried _ remember. so people have not been at all worried by - remember. so people have not been at all worried by the - been at all worried by the renewed threat? mat been at all worried by the renewed threat? not especially worried, renewed threat? not especially worried. of _ renewed threat? not especially worried, of course _ renewed threat? not especially worried, of course we - renewed threat? not especially worried, of course we have - renewed threat? not especially l worried, of course we have been seeing renewed interest in for example countering disinformation, security attacks but i think overall mood is quite calm. because china has — mood is quite calm. because china has claimed _ mood is quite calm. because china has claimed taiwan - mood is quite calm. because china has claimed taiwan as| china has claimed taiwan as part of its territory since 1949 but part of its territory since 1919 but now according to 19119 but now according to intelligence from the united states, xijinping wants intelligence from the united states, xi jinping wants to accelerate the programme in unified taiwan by 2027. so you have this timeframe, we have seen increased military activity, spy planes, bombers, missiles being fired over the taiwan strait, surely you cannotjust taiwan strait, surely you cannot just count the possibility there could be a military conflict?— military conflict? well, in taiwan we _ military conflict? well, in taiwan we face _ military conflict? well, in.

taiwan we face earthquake military conflict? well, in - taiwan we face earthquake and typhoons all the time, it great don't give us a lot of advance notice either, so our role is to be resilient, meaning we prepare for adversity and recover from prepare for adversity and recoverfrom it, our readiness stands high at any given time. you soon —— you sound quite relaxed about it, the foreign minister say the chinese behaviour is provocative and threatening regional peace and stability. taiwan is the greatest of redlines in china isn't it? ~ ., ., isn't it? we are on the frontline _ isn't it? we are on the frontline because - isn't it? we are on the frontline because i - isn't it? we are on the frontline because i amj isn't it? we are on the - frontline because i am the digital minister i would think in the case we face cyber attacks every day. b5 in the case we face cyber attacks every day. as you say uuite attacks every day. as you say quite rightly _ attacks every day. as you say quite rightly you _ attacks every day. as you say quite rightly you face - attacks every day. as you say quite rightly you face cyber . quite rightly you face cyber attack every day. from china. i put it to you that the writer at the global china harbour this is we are already at war, this is we are already at war, this is we are already at war, this is a constant thing, izzy wright, as taiwan constantly

engaged in a cyber war with china? �* , engaged in a cyber war with china? �*, _, ., , china? it's quite continuous, for example _ china? it's quite continuous, for example when _ china? it's quite continuous, for example when the - china? it's quite continuous, for example when the us - china? it's quite continuous, - for example when the us speaker nancy pelosi visited, we have seen one single time the peak 23 times higher than the pre— distributed denial of service attack, trying to shut down the websites of the ministry of national defence or the president's office, they didn't succeed in revealing any sensitive and the nation or exposing the confidential documents and at the height of the attack is quite visible to everybody, so because of that there is a renewed interest in strength thing our cyber security. strength thing our cyber security-— strength thing our cyber securi . ., ., ., , security. you have broken many class security. you have broken many glass ceilings — security. you have broken many glass ceilings you _ security. you have broken many glass ceilings you are _ security. you have broken many glass ceilings you are a - security. you have broken many glass ceilings you are a hacker. glass ceilings you are a hacker turned minister, you were a child ology, you established your own technology company at the age of 1a, you were involved in the sunflower student protests in 2014 to try to avoid the fast tracking of a trade bill with china you are

the first openly transgender minister anywhere in the world, a first there. given your own department as the ministry for digital affairs, you need to strengthen taiwan's digital protection, so how capable as your infrastructure? at withstanding cyber attacks from china? i withstanding cyber attacks from china? ., _ withstanding cyber attacks from china? ., ., china? i would say that we build resilient _ china? i would say that we build resilient in _ china? i would say that we build resilient in order- china? i would say that we build resilient in order to l build resilient in order to counter notjust cyber security attacks but this information, the propaganda of the foreign interference, so these to go to hand in hand, on countering disinformation part we rely on journalism but also citizens practising journalism, fact checking for example, is popular pastime for economic students to do their so we put

these antibodies in the mind we are less vulnerable to misinformation. in terms of cyber attacks it has been pointed submarine cables is one of the vulnerabilities in taiwan because these connect us to the world, ukraine are investing 50 million us dollars over the next years to build more than 700 mobile or fixed satellite receivers for the satellite receivers for the satellite in orbit so we can still keep our line open to talk to our democratic allies around the world, even in the event of secret disruption to our submarine cables. the idea art of a our submarine cables. the idea part of a digital— our submarine cables. the idea part of a digital strategy - our submarine cables. the idea part of a digital strategy is - part of a digital strategy is to keep information about taiwan flowing, as part of that ambition you propose a satellite trial programme to try to guarantee internet services across taiwan, given the current tensions with china, these talks are pretty urgent, they between private

sector companies in the taiwanese government price? we are taiwanese government price? - are quite happy with our existing collaboration we have one in middle earth orbit and we will expand that to new vendors to the low earth orbit but taken together this provides a heterogeneous, revised of various different solutions for us to continue the conversation. if you do not have real—time video feed in the event of a disaster the appetite for information is still there so the information will take the place of real journalistic reports if we do not provide journalism at the high speed and with the internet.— high speed and with the internet. ., ., , internet. one thing taiwan is hu:el internet. one thing taiwan is hugely significant _ internet. one thing taiwan is hugely significant for - internet. one thing taiwan is hugely significant for in - internet. one thing taiwan is hugely significant for in the l hugely significant for in the global economy as the factory by 90% of the world's advanced microchips, and these are of course critical in all sorts of ways, microchips were used in phones, cars and laptops, one

taiwanese company council half the global market. how does this affect your relationship with china because china is one of your big partners, economically, trading, and yet, it's this flow we have been discussing and talk about the silicon shield, that this kind of supply microchips can protect you from an attack by china, get on the other hand it could also prove a very attractive, valuable acquisition for china stop so how do you see it? the silicon shield, so-called _ how do you see it? the silicon shield, so-called silicon - shield, so—called silicon shield, so—called silicon shield is a symbol of the trust the entire world places on the maiden taiwan chips because as you mentioned the chip powers everything from military to science and so on, the trustworthiness of the manufacturing of those chips, the cyber security, the eu want

the cyber security, the eu want the service built from taiwan to ensure the trustworthiness of those chips in its computation is very important and we see that is truly an asset that made in taiwan also stands for trustworthiness. and so i think this idea that things made from taiwan can power the science in military and whatever other applications from around the world as a symbol of trust and that is the true shield that unites taiwan and our western allies. g, and our western allies. a symbol of trust but doesn't protect you from chinese aggression? if protect you from chinese aggression?— protect you from chinese an aression? ., , , aggression? if the world sees taiwan as _ aggression? if the world sees taiwan as a — aggression? if the world sees taiwan as a partner— aggression? if the world sees taiwan as a partner in - taiwan as a partner in providing trustworthy computation the entire democratic camp will see us as a very valuable partner and so will come to our defence. another paradox which is quite puzzling about taiwan as you are part of the government, which came to power in 2016

when the president who leads the democratic progressive party the dpp won the election is very decisively. what is the position of the government, when it comes to independent, because polls consistently show the taiwanese people don't want independence and yet they don't want unification with china, so how does the government reconcile this? i how does the government reconcile this?— reconcile this? ithink, all the major _ reconcile this? ithink, all the major parties - reconcile this? ithink, all| the major parties including reconcile this? ithink, all- the major parties including the dpp, the democratic progressive party you mentioned in the parliament project authoritarian suspects in the summer, when we look at hong kong, the so—called one country to system has turned into so—called only patriots can rule hong kong. so we all reject that, and our way of life, of course is a free and one, so in the digital realm we are happy, for example our

domain name is quite independent from .uk. us so people care more about the state as a full—fledged member to the democratic community more than any house. but you are art more than any house. but you are part of _ more than any house. but you are part of the _ more than any house. but you are part of the government, i | are part of the government, i appreciate you are not partisan and part of lynn dpp but the prime minister his comments are quite puzzling in 2020 she told the bbc that we don't have a need to declare independence, we are an independent country already on call ourselves the republic of china. what does she mean by that? the republic of china. what does she mean by that?— she mean by that? the roc government _ she mean by that? the roc government officially - she mean by that? the roc. government officially relocated to taiwan and ever since then we state macro see taiwan weather without the parenthesis to symbolise we talk about privacy domain statistics and

the people in this free country elects the president directly since 1996 so they have become like synonyms the roc and taiwan. ., ., ., ~ ., taiwan. you are talking about shanahai taiwan. you are talking about shanghai check _ taiwan. you are talking about shanghai check having - taiwan. you are talking about shanghai check having left . shanghai check having left china fled to taiwan with 2 million of his followers and we had the republic of china then, it is still not clear the government or the president not backing formal independence, really, and yet saying we reject unification, use words like country but actually only about a dozen very small states and the caribbean or latin america. and the caribbean or latin america-— and the caribbean or latin america. and the caribbean or latin - america._ the america. the vatican city. the vatican recognised _ america. the vatican city. the vatican recognised taiwan - america. the vatican city. the vatican recognised taiwan as i america. the vatican city. the | vatican recognised taiwan as a nation, you are using an argument. you are losing the argument. you are losing the argument-— argument. digitally when we si . ned argument. digitally when we signed the — argument. digitally when we signed the declaration - argument. digitally when we signed the declaration of- argument. digitally when we signed the declaration of the freedom of the internet which i signed on behalf of taiwan we are one of the 61 partners for democracies signing that

declaration, to place our investments jointly, declaration, to place our investmentsjointly, to build and to shape the internet into some that his resilience against authoritarianism and to protect human rights, and the declaration we are all referred to as partners or as democracies, so on that front we are gaining new ground. you sa ou we are gaining new ground. you say you are _ we are gaining new ground. you say you are a — we are gaining new ground. you say you are a country, major countries, the united states all of you don't ricky eyes taiwan is a nationstate, you don't have a seat at the united nations? �* ., ., ., nations? but we do have a top-level _ nations? but we do have a top-level domain. - nations? but we do have a top-level domain. i'm - nations? but we do have a l top-level domain. i'm saying top—level domain. i'm saying there are more multistate holder and hybrid stakeholder meetings, composed of the eu and the vatican city and many other entities that comprise the democratic partnership, which is why in my ministry the ministry of digital fears my

department is called the department of democracy network. department of democracy network-— department of democracy network. ., ., network. the leader of the -a network. the leader of the party criticises _ network. the leader of the party criticises the - network. the leader of the party criticises the dpp, i network. the leader of the l party criticises the dpp, the president, for not maintaining a dialogue with china, even the americans, the us secretary of state anthony lincoln and the chinese foreign minister held talks on the sidelines of general assembly and talk for an hour and a half, why is your president not accepting to talk directly with the chinese? in” directly with the chinese? in i think international date address president tsai said clearly that as long as there is equitable terms for dialogue she is happy to have a conversation to keep the taiwan strait peaceful. but, i mean, she says she would only talk if beijing drops the precondition that taiwan is part of china. you have a deadlock, they are

not going to do that, president xi hasjust reiterated xi has just reiterated unification must happen and so you have no dialogue. maybe a videoconference, then?- videoconference, then? that's not even taken _ videoconference, then? that's not even taken place. - videoconference, then? that's not even taken place. are - videoconference, then? that's not even taken place. are you | not even taken place. are you encouraging her to do that? my oint encouraging her to do that? m point here encouraging her to do that? ii point here is encouraging her to do that? ii1 point here is that if there are ways for beijing authorities and the taiwan government to have a bore matter—of—factly conversation around the day—to—day conversations of the matters were in it concerns to people's livelihoods and so on, but has been going on for quite a while but what you're asking is essentially the political question. but from my point of view, because i am non—partisan, i think it's far easier if we focus on the parts, for example, advancing democracy, human rights and so on. we work as the ministry of digital affairs through the department of democracy and network notjust department of democracy and network not just with government entities, fellow

democracies but also people who are advocating for a democracy and independentjournalists so evenif and independentjournalists so even if they live in other regimes and on these topics we happy to have conversations. what is the political question where there is a lack of clarity, even taiwan's defence strategy is lacking, taiwan's former top military initial agreement for admiral says the taiwanese army is not prepared and that it must think strategically which he says it isn't doing, his criticisms highlight the inertia in the taiwanese army because it was the armed wing of the kmt, the chinese nationalist party, that rules under martial law for decades and so therefore, it is not reinvented itself sufficiently for the modern era, so what do you say to that criticism? i era, so what do you say to that criticism?— criticism? i believe you were mentioning _ criticism? i believe you were mentioning the _ criticism? i believe you were mentioning the asymmetricl mentioning the asymmetric defence concept.—

mentioning the asymmetric defence concept.- i - mentioning the asymmetric defence concept. yes. i think in the cybersecurity - defence concept. yes. i think in the cybersecurity domain, this is obviously the case. we need to create places where we spent, as minimal as possible, in order to counter the far more resources that adversaries throw at us so when i talk about for example mitigating the denial of service attacks following nancy pelosi's visit is august, we developed a way to tie our defence, the web to and web three defences, the international backbones that powers the nfts, the cryptocurrencies and so on so you take this down and then you also must take down. crosstalk. military hardtalk, _ also must take down. crosstalk. military hardtalk, really, - military hardtalk, really, that's what the admiral criticisms were. president tsai has just announced a 40% boost in taiwan's defence spending. you face a standing army of about 2 million in total, i think you've got something like 170,000. you have cut your army

personnel by more than half since the 1990s. kind of defence strategy at the admiral is referring to and so, that's all pretty unwise, isn't it, that kind of approach? we've seen recently _ that kind of approach? we've seen recently that _ that kind of approach? we've seen recently that under - that kind of approach? we've seen recently that under the | seen recently that under the call of the all—out mobilisation, people are having an interest of getting the training they need in order to, well, again, learning from ukraine, contribute in a time of invasion. and putting the domain of cybersecurity, which i more familiar with, we also have people from students to the people already working, to learn notjust a basic cyber, like, sanitation or good habits but also ways to again, learning from ukraine, to work with the international people. sure. ~ . with the international people. sure. ~ , ., ., sure. when the times come for a kind of all-out _ sure. when the times come for a kind of all-out defence _ sure. when the times come for a kind of all-out defence so - sure. when the times come for a kind of all-out defence so i - kind of all—out defence so i think this notjust kind of all—out defence so i

think this not just about the ministry of national defence but also about equipping our citizens. so but also about equipping our citizens. ., ., , citizens. so for example the taiwanese _ citizens. so for example the taiwanese tycoon _ citizens. so for example the taiwanese tycoon robert i taiwanese tycoon robert sauer has pledged 23 million us dollars to help train civilian fighters as you are referring to their but he is doing the job of government there, isn't it, trying to fill in the holes for the lack of proper defence strategy that the government should be addressing. —— robert tsao. i should be addressing. -- robert tsao. ~ . should be addressing. -- robert tsao. ~ , ., should be addressing. -- robert tsao. ~ . ., ., ~ tsao. i think these to work in tandem- _ tsao. i think these to work in tandem- i — tsao. i think these to work in tandem. i have _ tsao. i think these to work in tandem. i have a _ tsao. i think these to work in tandem. i have a heart- tandem. i have a heart condition that stops me from enrolling in the compulsory two—year military service but it does not mean that i don't want to know about our defence strategy and get training in cybersecurity and other matters when the time comes so i think the connection between people who willing to contribute and the national defence, that is the national defence, that is the bridge that we are building. the bridge that we are building-— the bridge that we are buildinu. ~ _, , the bridge that we are buildini. ~ _, , ., building. when it comes to defence. — building. when it comes to defence, it _ building. when it comes to defence, it seems - building. when it comes to defence, it seems like - building. when it comes to i defence, it seems like taiwan is going to be relying a great deal on the united states, the us senate has passed a bill to provide $6.5 billion to fund weapons and other military

support for taiwan, strong bipartisan strategy for the americans there. and president biden, it seems, has been abandoning american policy which has been called strategic ambiguity for many years, not spelling out what would happen from america's point of view if china did invade taiwan but now, he is saying that the us would get involved militarily if china invaded taiwan. he says yes, that's the commitment we made and when pressed in an interview on american tv whether that meant that american men and women would defend taiwan, he answered yes. so what is your interpretation now of us policy towards taiwan? it now of us policy towards taiwan?— now of us policy towards taiwan? , ., , , ., taiwan? it is obviously to deter expansionism, i taiwan? it is obviously to deter expansionism, by l taiwan? it is obviously to i deter expansionism, by their other authoritarian regimes by making clear, as i mentioned, that the cost will be insurmountable if they even consider... insurmountable if they even consider. . .— insurmountable if they even consider... , consider... did you see a shift in policy? _ consider... did you see a shift in policy? an _ consider... did you see a shift in policy? an abandonment. consider... did you see a shift in policy? an abandonment of| in policy? an abandonment of that strategic ambiguity in favour of a more robust

approach crosstalk. spelling it out as ou approach crosstalk. spelling it out as you mentioned, _ approach crosstalk. spelling it out as you mentioned, yes. i approach crosstalk. spelling it out as you mentioned, yes. so i out as you mentioned, yes. so do ou out as you mentioned, yes. so do you think that is reassuring for the taiwanese or arguably it could put you right in the middle of the growing tensions between china and the united states, you could end up becoming a pawn in the superpower rivalry. yes, a cou . le superpower rivalry. yes, a couple of _ superpower rivalry. yes, a couple of things. - superpower rivalry. yes, a couple of things. i - superpower rivalry. yes, a couple of things. i think i superpower rivalry. yes, a l couple of things. i think first of all, clarity doesn't mean escalation. like we are escalating the tension here. that's the first thing. the second thing is as i mentioned, there is a lot of willingness from notjust the us but also european counterparts and many other democratic allies, all the 60 signatories of the declaration for the future of the internet, have committed... crosstalk. the internet, have committed... crosstalk— crosstalk. free and open. stickini crosstalk. free and open. sticking with _ crosstalk. free and open. sticking with the _ crosstalk. free and open. sticking with the tensions, l crosstalk. free and open. i sticking with the tensions, you are not escalating the tensions but the tensions over china and the united states and are escalating and joe biden has the export controls are on the

chinese technology and so on and my point is how is taiwan viewing this because, i'll give you a quote, michael swain from the quincy institute for responsible statecraft says's uluru statement from the's statements make taiwan less secure because they of the us being pulled into a war. it makes you less secure. he's right. makes you less secure. he's ri i ht. makes you less secure. he's riiht. , ., makes you less secure. he's riiht. �* ., ,, makes you less secure. he's ri ht, , ., �* ., ~' , right. the point i'm making is for example _ right. the point i'm making is for example the _ right. the point i'm making is for example the uk. - right. the point i'm making is for example the uk. they i right. the point i'm making is| for example the uk. they also realised that previously considered inexpensive 5g communication equipments from other authoritarian regimes are actually expensive if you think about the risk it poses to national security. so it's not like only us has made that assessment. everyone else is doing the same assessment and concludes that taiwan is the more trustworthy partner. when it comes to powering the secure medications or any scientific military computation needs. has military computation needs. as the better democratic part of they are willing to commit. exactly. they are willing to commit. exactl . ~ . , they are willing to commit. exactl.~ ,,, they are willing to commit. exactl.~ ,, exactly. military supplies and that is something _ exactly. military supplies and that is something good i exactly. military supplies and that is something good in i exactly. military supplies and l that is something good in your opinion?

that is something good in your oiinion? . that is something good in your oiinion? , , ., ., opinion? right, this is not a us- prc— opinion? right, this is not a us- prc thing, this is - opinion? right, this is not a us- prc thing, this is a - opinion? right, this is not a j us- prc thing, this is a free us— prc thing, this is a free democratic alliance thing. finally, as ministerfor digital affairs audrey tang, you are trying to transform taiwan into a digital democracy around 87% of people under the age of 12 are connected and you know you want to increase citizen participation online. how do you think you are going to be able to develop this? could you go the way of china that uses surveillance to increase its authoritarianism? increase its authoritarianism ? america, increase its authoritarianism? america, we have sinned the incident being used in a way that polarises society more? how are you going to avoid falling into either trap? fiur falling into either trap? our ioint is falling into either trap? our point is democracy - falling into either trap? oi" point is democracy can deliver if it becomes more democratic, so that everybody can participate. you mentioned relocation of the roc government to taiwan in the 40s. government to taiwan in the 405. at government to taiwan in the 40s. at the time, there is very, like, it will be very different life experiences suddenly having to coexist

together. my own grandma is a local taiwanese who studied japanese and my grandpa comes from china so in my family, i understand the need to collaborate across diversity. today, taiwan is home to like 20 national languages and many different ethnic people so the point i'm making is that democracy must build collaboration across diversity and that's the way we are employing these digital technologies to do. audrey tan i , technologies to do. audrey tang, minister— technologies to do. audrey tang, minister for - technologies to do. audrey tang, minister for digital i tang, ministerfor digital affairs here in taiwan, thinking indeed for on hardtalk.— thinking indeed for on hardtalk. ., ~ ., hardtalk. thank you. live long and prosper- — hello there.

we certainly have seen some lively weather over the past 24 hours — multiple bands of heavy rain, some thunderstorms for a while. things are beginning to quieten down by monday morning but over the week ahead, we're going to stay in this very mild air, but that brings the potentialfor more rain, which could be heavy and thundery at times. now, we've got the overnight rain to clear away from some eastern parts of england out into the north sea and we've still got some rain in the far north of scotland but otherwise, this west to south—westerly breeze will bring sunshine and a scattering of showers on monday. those will get blown into some eastern areas but there will be some sunshine in between, and we're still making a mild 15 degrees in scotland and 17, maybe 18 across south—eastern parts of england. now, this is the general weather pattern, really, over the rest of the week. this is the jet stream, the upper level winds. you can see how that is buckled to the west of the uk, not really changing very much. within that buckle, you find areas of low pressure spinning around and bringing us most of the rain. but because of the orientation of the jet stream, we're

on the warmer side of it, so we've got winds coming from a long way south, bringing us those higher temperatures. and as we head into tuesday, we start generally dry with some sunshine. there'll be a few showers around first thing, one or two continuing in the west. and then, as the southerly wind picks up, the cloud will thicken in the south—west and we'll start to see some rain coming in here. a lot of places, though, will have a dry day, probably, on tuesday. a chance to take a breather, and it is still pretty mild — temperatures reaching 17 or 18 degrees. still got low pressure sitting to the west of the uk, then, and around it, this weather front is focusing all the rain. that rain could turn heavy and thundery as it runs northwards overnight, sitting across more northern parts of the uk early on wednesday and then moving away. still got those brisk, southerly winds. those will bring a mixture of sunshine and showers and again, mostly showers will be towards western parts of the uk with those temperatures beginning to rise a bit in that sunshine there across many eastern areas. and we continue to run those winds from a long way south. more areas of low pressure pushing more rain in, mainly across the western side of the uk. there will be a few showers

around on thursday, some of them could be heavy and thundery, but more in the way of sunshine coming out across eastern parts of the uk still with those southerly winds, so temperatures continuing to rise — we could make 21 in the south—east of england — and those temperatures are about four or five degrees above the average.

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