now on bbc news amol rajan interviews: greta thunberg. when i was 15, i wasjust discovering the joys of hip—hop and dreaming of playing cricket for england. at the same age, greta thunberg launched an international movement by skipping school. she's not a politician or a scientist, nor is she the first to campaign against climate change. at school, she was bullied for years, before being diagnosed with asperger�*s syndrome. but in 2018, this swedish schoolgirl found herself hailed as the unlikely voice of global youth. she's become the symbol

of a generation, which, as she puts it, is not being listened to by older people, who won't suffer the consequences of not listening. whether you admire her or despair of her, greta thunberg's influence has already been profound. and she's still a teenager. in 2015, the eu and nearly 200 countries signed the paris agreement, attempting to limit the global temperature increase this century to 1.5 degrees celsius. greta thunberg has pleaded, reasoned and raged in the faces of world leaders to keep their promises. you all come to us, young people for hope. how dare you? in doing so, she has become a modern icon to some, and an alarmist pariah to others. she has graced magazine covers and is mobbed like a rock star.

while politicians and celebrities align themselves with her, to signal their green credentials, and opponents regularly send her family death threats. she's now created a book of essays, written by her and over 100 experts by way of a toolkit for those concerned about climate change. at 19, greta thunberg is no longer the young schoolgirl bursting onto the world stage. so how does she plan to get her message across? and will anybody still listen? and as an adult, what practical solutions can she offer to back up her demands for the planet? i want to understand how she got here, but also explore her plans for the future, both hers and ours. greta, thank you so much for talking to the bbc. i've read your book. i mean, this is a major contribution to debates both about the science and the politics of global warming, you know, it's notjust something that focuses on what the science says,

it comes up with a lot of recommendations for how to go forward. what was your guiding principle when you chose the authors, when you selected who would contribute? i often get, like, asked, "do you have any recommendations "for things i can read and things i can watch, "because i don't know much about the climate crisis, "but i want to learn. "i want to get involved." and then i could send people, like, a long list, like, you can read this book, which talks about this, and then you can read this, which covers this and so on. but there was never something like this covers, like, a broader perspective. so i wanted to create that, because it's very hard to navigate around everything there is on the climate crisis today. one of the ideas behind the book, one of the motivations, that you're moving beyond protests, which is still a big part of what you do, but you're moving into the world of practical policies. because that seems, to me, a big part of what the book is about. i guess you can do different

interpretations of that. the biggest project is educational material and spread awareness. when i started school striking, it wasn't, of course, it was also meant as a kind of protest, but also about spreading information, because i had flyers that i handed out with people with facts i had collected. but the protests idea of it was more resonating with people. i want to talk a little bit about how you got into all this, because i think most people don't know very much about your childhood, and a lot of people won't know that you had depression for many years, and for nearly three years you didn't say very much, you were selectively mute, i think, so you missed a lot of school. yeah. severely depressed. do you know what prompted all of that? it was many different things, but, like, i think i wasjust depressed about the state of the world in general, which, and, yeah, it feltjust meaningless. a lot of people listening

to you, who maybe have had mental health problems, childhood mental health problems, depression, will be interested in what helped you recover. i think the main thing was that ifound something that i was passionate about. because today it feels like so many people lack a sense of purpose and meaning in their life. we're just all going around in this hamster wheel, trying to make money, get likes on social media, whatever. and, of course, that doesn't make you happy. but, yeah, i and many others found purpose in this fight for climate justice, because i feel like i'm doing something that means something, that's meaningful. the book goes into a lot of detail about solutions and practical policies, and i want to — i want to explore some of your views on some of these complex policy issues, where you do have to make choices, and governments do have to make choices. i...pretty much never go into specific things, to talk about, because that would distract from the crisis itself.

why do you not get into specific policies? because you have, as we'll come on to, you have said that you're an opponent of nuclear policy. you have — you advocate... no. ..have you not? laughs. i mean, i've said... well, i just try to stay away from those things as much as possible. would they distract from the crisis? it does... i mean, isn't the whole point of politics, especially with your platform, that you do have to encourage people to choose? you know, that you do have to say, "take a position "on these things." i mean, if you want to solve the climate crisis as a citizen, or as a citizen who votes, or as a government, you do need to make choices. when we talk about, for example, nuclear power... yeah. ..that is something that is being used a lot by people to distract, because it's something that people feel so strongly about. so when you talk about it, itjust — everyone just runs to it, and forget everything around it. but isn't it part of the mix of a green agenda? first of all, i think when we talk about this,

it seems like this is one silver bullet that will solve everything. first of all, our energy—related emissions aren't all of our emissions. second of all, if we were to build to replace our current fossil fuel—generated energy with nuclear power, we don't have the time to do that, because our c02 budget runs out in less than a decade at current emissions. carbon budgets limit the amount of greenhouse gases a particular country can produce between now and 2050, which is the paris agreement�*s deadline for net zero. the point at which no new greenhouse gases should be added to the atmosphere. this government, i can hear them now, you know, in interviews i do, of them, saying, you know, we've got an ambitious plan for net zero by 2050. there is a range of different stuff that we've got to do to hit that plan. nuclear is part of it. and on that part of it, isn't it reasonable to say that activists should say, do they support it or not? people can do that if they want to. ifido it...

..it�*s — people... ..people get stuck on that thing. the fact that greta supported it. right. yeah. 0r hasn't supported it. yeah. right. i'm sure that if we air this and i talk about nuclear power, people will focus only on that. do you take a similar approach to other issues, where... ..not the debate isn't settled, but divisive issues, shale gas and fracking? shale gas and fracking, joe biden would say, "when i hear climate change, i'm thinking, "jobs, jobs, jobs." laughs. sorry! did i say something? laughs. jobs, jobs, jobs! no, it's an internaljoke! i wasjust channelling joe biden! why is that funny? is that translated to something weird in swedish? you just don't believe it? what's the internaljoke?

me and some friends, we say that sometimes and it's really funny. jobs, jobs, jobs, 0k. that's what arguably the most powerful man in the world says when people start putting to him the case for shale gas and fracking. "so that'll create jobs, jobs, jobs here." "that'll create jobs, jobs, jobs there." "it's going to reduce our reliance on the middle east "for oil and on russia for gas." and that, again, as part of the mix of getting to net zero by 2050, there's renewables, there's nuclear, and shale gas is part of the mix. do you respond to that by saying, "i'm not going "to take a viewjust because, you know, that would "be a distraction?" no. imean... doesn't there come a point where you have to take a view? do you have a view, personally? i don't think that shale gas and fracking is a transitioning solution, because, i mean, it locks us further into a fossil dependency. i think we need to move towards real renewable energy. and i feel that it's greenwashing. to say that we are less dependent on importing fossil fuels from other countries by producing it yourself, is not really a very

thought—through thing to do, i think. one thing that you recommend in the book is free local transport. as i write, it's one of the most low—hanging fruits. and just the fact that that hasn't even been done says a lot about our emissions. how would you pay for it? i mean, i'mjust thinking, in this country, we've just spent £400 billion on the pandemic. there's a cost of living crisis. that's exactly why i don't focus on specific issues. laughs. tell me, why? because then we get stuck on these things, instead of focusing on the crisis itself. but doesn't that leave you exposed to the argument that, by talking only about the broad principle, and trying to change the story, the public narrative on climate change, that you're not prepared to, as it were, get your hands dirty in the real, practical policy solutions? i mean, first of all, i am a teenager. if your house was on fire, would you start arguing about whether to turn

off the oven or not? yeah, you might. you might talk about a range of different things. the metaphor being here, shale gas is one, renewables is another. if you first haven't realised that your house is on fire, once we actually treat it as an emergency, we will talk about every possible detail. but until we are, we are doing that, it's distracting to talk about these individual, specific issues. i want to talk about the second paragraph of your introduction, which, i think, that's not a test, you don't have to memorise it. i'm gonna read it to you, don't worry! but i think the second paragraph of your introduction crystallises, really, one of the central arguments of the book, because it attacks the idea of compromise. and you write, "there are no black—and—white issues in life, "no categorical answers, everything is a subject "for endless debate and compromise. "this is one of the core principles of our current society, a society which, when it comes "to sustainability, has a lot to answer for, "because that core principle is wrong."

why is compromise wrong? it is not compromise itself that is wrong. it's very oversimplified to say that everything is black—and—white — of course that's not the case, it's a metaphor. for example, the paris agreement is one big compromise and that is what we are constantly referring back to. if we are to stay in line with the 1.5—degree target, we don't have time for the small steps in the right direction, we don't have time to reach net zero 2050, which is a big compromise. when it comes to the climate emergency, winning slowly is the same thing as losing. we can't really compromise with the laws of physics and that's kind of the idea. either we go on as a civilisation, or we don't. "build back better, blah, blah, blah." "green economy, blah, blah, blah." "net zero by 2050, blah, blah, blah." "net—zero, blah, blah, blah." "climate—neutral, blah, blah, blah." there are people who say, looking at what you've done

over the past four years, that one of the dangers of your approach to politics is you create a cynicism about politicians. glad you are laughing because not what the politicians are laughing. i mean, people say that, "the thing about greta thunberg "is that she makes people think that all politicians "are rubbish, useless, blah, blah, blah." yeah. what do you say to that? one third of our anthropogenic co2 emissions have been emitted since 2005. that's then the progress, they said, should not be dismissed as a "blah, blah, blah." of course, all of politicians are not evil. i have never said that, i don't understand where that comes from. there are many who are trying, but overall, the people who are in power have been moving us in the wrong direction. would you ever go into politics? i don't want to! why? don't you feel an obligation, a duty? i mean, first of all, i don't want to. laughs. because it feels like

that world is so toxic. but also, the main reason is, as it is now, the changes necessary will only come if there is enough public pressure from the outside. and that is something that we create outside on the streets. it feels to me that the focus of your campaigning has subtly, but significantly changed from an earlier emphasis on "listen to the science," which you obviously still say a lot of, but to something else, which is climatejustice. hmm. but what is climate justice? the people who are affected today are the ones who have done the absolute least to cause it, and therefore we have an obligation to act, to minimise the damages that are being caused. climate justice is everything, because in countries like mine, in sweden, i can imagine the uk as well, people say, i mean, "you don't have to worry, you will be fine. "we have... "we can just turn up the air conditioning, "turn on our sprinklers and we will be fine." and that might be true,

that some of us might initially be able to adapt somewhat to a rapidly, like, warming world. but for many of my own friends, that will not be the case. let me put this in human terms. my dad died a few months ago and, you know, he had a very big family — we have a very big family in india. he was one of 11 siblings. my mum needs to go and meet his siblings and, therefore, fly to india. yeah. my mum, she's in her 70s and she's a wonderful person, she's not going to get the train to india. no! that would be... that would be — that would be weird. i don't think of my mum as privileged, but would it be right to say that, you know, people who follow you and follow your activism could infer from what you're saying that my mum shouldn't fly? no, i mean, i have neversaid that people should stop flying. i have never said that. i think that we need to move away from focusing on individual actions

and what individuals do and so on, because we need we need to focus on the bigger picture. of course, "stop flying" is a way of activism to, like, send a message to people around you that we need to do something about this. that's why i stopped flying. i didn't stop flying and i didn't sail across the atlantic twice to lower my carbon footprint. it was to create a debate around itand it, yeah, it succeeded, i guess. it worked. people seem to see me as an angry teenager who condemns every individual�*s behaviour, which is kind of funny to me. laughs. and you're not that person? no! laughs. what's the difference between that person and who you really are? there's a big difference, erm, yeah. i'm not an angry teenager. yeah, iam — i probably don't take life seriously enough, like in private, yeah. don't you find it weird, then, that you have this reputation for being...? yeah, it is really funny, actually. you find it funny because why?

itjust seems so untrue to you? yeah, yeah. and i think the people i care about, who i meet, they know that it's not me. and if i meet people personally, they can see that i'm not angry. you ever reflecting quiet moments aboutjust how unlikely your story is? moments about 'ust how unlikely your story is?— i mean, you're this, for three years or more, largely mute, bullied schoolgirl. you end up being the voice of a generation. it's a very unlikely journey, isn't it? it is, yes. one thing that you have described as your superpower is asperger�*s. do you mind just explaining what that is to people who don't know asperger�*s syndrome? you're on the autism spectrum. it's, like, a diagnosis. it means that you work a bit differently. you are a bit sensitive to things that others aren't. you can't, erm. .. sometimes, you can't function in the same ways as others. describing it only as a superpower is misleading

because some people — because many people are very limited by it because under the wrong circumstances, it can definitely hold you back if you — if you have to play on the same terms as everyone else, as is the current situation for most people. but in some ways, it's something that allows you to be — to do things that others can't. like? for example, if you are really interested in something and if you — you can have a very intense focus on something, you can be really determined, erm, to fulfil something. was there a moment in those early weeks where you realised that this was going to be big? where you maybe are texting your friends and saying, "suddenly, we've got interest from the national media, "suddenly, global media. "suddenly, i'm on the front of this newspaper, or whatever." did you think, "i'm actually starting something here"? it must be very exciting. i don't know, because in sweden, people rarely stop you on the streets. what's the word for that again? jantelagen. it was like, no—one

is worth more than others. we don't — like, we leave you alone, kind of. but when i started to go abroad, people started to recognise me and that was like — that was strange. do you like that attention at all? imean, it's... i don't enjoy it, no. no. i don't... no. i mean, it's not something that pleases me, so to speak. the thing that's, like, most difficult is if people close to me or people i love, if they get harmed by it — which, of course, is the case sometimes. how? for example, if people come home to my house and like, uninvited, and stuff like that. because you've had death threats, right? yeah, and my family and people i know and so on. i put your name into various social media platforms on the way here and it is shocking. imean, it's... yeah. ..shocking. ..you know, shocking some of the abuse you get. if you're honest, does it affect you? not insults, no. i think what i am most bothered

about is when people lie about me and spread, like, conspiracy theories, because i can't lie. so, when other people lie about me, it's like, "no, don't!" you've used humour a lot on social media when you're trolled by world leaders and you respond by trolling them back, usually by changing your twitter profile. ijust think it's genuinely funny. laughter. i mean, the most powerful people in the world are, like, feel intimidated by teenagers. that is funny. it says more about them than it does about me. do you actually enjoy being the face of a global movement? it sounds like it comes with quite a lot of pressure. i mean, it was certainly not what i intended to do. you took a boat — a two—week journey across the atlantic. this is because you didn't want to fly to the un.

so you said, "i need to be there. "i'm going to do it by boat." there's a moment i saw in this documentary, where you were recording voice — voice memos. oh, yeah. you said, "i don't want to have to do this. "it's such a responsibility. around the clock. "i know what is at stake, but it's such a responsibility." yeah. it sounded like you were taking the entire weight of a generation on your shoulders and taking it across the atlantic on choppy waters on a solar—powered boat. giggles. and you were, what, 16 at the time? 16, yeah. i mean, it is too much responsibility both for me as an individual, but also for young people — on young people in general. there are many people of all ages who are stepping up but it mostly falls on young people to do this, and it shouldn't be that way. i just wish sometimes that people would take up a bit more responsibility because people always say to me, like, "oh, "it's so hopeful when i see you guys, and it gives me hope "for the future. "i'm not as worried any more." and often, i keep a straight face

and i say, "ah—ha—ha." just like, mm. but then, sometimes i can snap and say, like, "if you think "that all the hope in the world rests on, like, burnt—out "teenagers�* shoulders, i mean, that's not very good." that's not very good. no. do you think you've been transformed by fame? i don't think it's possible for anyone to become so — you have so much attention and not be changed by it. it doesn't have to be for the worse, though. it could also be that you think more of what you do. but, yeah, i do think that if you are not careful and if you get famous at such a young age, it can be very damaging. and also, when all that attention disappears, that would probably be very difficult to deal with. do you think it will disappear? do you think that — yeah? of course. why, because you're not young any more? i mean, maybe. i mean, no person can be in the spotlight for that long

without people getting bored. do you worry about that? no, i think that would be nice. laughs. imean, yeah. do you think it'd be nice if people didn't — if you didn't have the attention that you have at the moment? yeah. wouldn't that diminish your ability to influence the debate on the future of civilisation? it would. that's the dilemma. so how are you going to play that dilemma? i'm just going to accept what happens if — as long as i have a platform and can do these things, i will try to use that platform. but when it disappears, i will, yeah, i will continue, but in different ways. so, if you're not someone that sort of really pursues fame and enjoys fame for fame�*s sake, what does it feel like to be nominated for the nobel peace prize repeatedly or to be a time magazine person of the year? of course, it's good that the climate gets focus and i understand that if, as it is now, focusing on me means focus on the climate — even though it shouldn't be that way — but i mean, i don't really

care for those things. what do you do for fun? laughs. you know? that's a good question. laughs. it wasn't meant to be a funny question! what do you do for fun? i like reading, i like being with my dogs. i like being with friends. one thing i do is i crochet frog hats. you crochet frog hats? yeah! are these hats that go on the heads of frogs? no! laughs. no. it's a green, like, kind of bucket hat that i crochet with eyes. 0k. yeah. just for you and your mates sort of thing. this is a sort of a fun thing? yeah. 0k. i want to come to some very final thoughts in a couple of minutes. first, i've got some quick—fire questions. 0k? maximum 10 words, minimum one. 0k? yeah. what de—stresses you? going for long walks. person you'd most like to meet who's dead? i wouldn't want to meet a dead person. laughs.

laughter. i never thought about it like that. but, if they came back alive, but... when did you last cry? probably because i saw some pretty flowers or something. what's your worst personal habit? that i can't shut up. probably. ok, let's turn to final thoughts. given all the concern that you've expressed about the environment, what are your hopes and dreams for the future? what do you want your — how do you want your life to pan out? i have absolutely no idea. ijust kind of, like, know there's no point in thinking about it because everything changes every single day, so i can't plan anything ahead. so, i — ijust want to be able to do as much as i can where it's possible. greta, it's a real pleasure to chat to you. thank you so much for your time. thank you.

hello. it's been a wet start to november and, as a result of half a month's worth of rain across some south—eastern areas, still flood warnings are in force. but it looks like a window of drier weather for the day ahead before we look to storm martin out in the atlantic, which is going to throw these weather fronts our way — here it is, that storm system — and then plenty of showers follow behind. the concern, again, is, though, this weather front will become slow—moving across southern and eastern areas. and even ahead of that, there are still, through the remainder of the night, a few heavy, thundery downpours to contend with — in southern areas in particular —

and gusty winds as well, so lots of spray and standing water on the roads if you're out in the next few hours — those gusts up to 50—60 mph — but high pressure�*s building in and the showers will dampen for many. and it's a cold start this morning. a touch of frost across northern areas, grass frost in the south and even a little bit of fog because the winds are falling lighter here. so, what's left of that showery rain scoots away very quickly. we've got a weak weather front introducing showers in the north—west, perhaps some patchy fog to clear away, possibly through the central belt, one or two patches elsewhere but otherwise, it does look like the driest, brightest day of the week with some good spells of sunshine coming through and lighter winds generally. 10—14 celsius is just around the average for this time of year. but that window of drier weather doesn't last. we've got, behind me, gathering some more rain and that moves in through friday night and saturday — some quite heavy bursts of rain for a time — and then it slows progress down as it reaches southern and eastern areas. brighter skies certainly following with one or two showers.

11—14 — on a par with those of friday. but to say that weather front could become slow—moving once again across southern and eastern areas. the ground saturated, we still have flood warnings in force. and it's bonfire night, so it could be that we have quite a lot of cloud in eastern areas, showers and blustery winds elsewhere but some clear spells around, as well. but there's uncertainties, as i say, through the forecast, through the latter part of the weekend, given the amount of rain that could fall in southern and eastern areas, and also because of the fetch from that storm, we could have some really large waves saturday night into sunday around the western coast — 5 or 6 metre waves, potentially. lots of blustery showers, heavy and thundery, rolling in behind our weatherfront. a distinctly unsettled—looking picture. you can find out more about the warnings and the flood warnings online.

this is bbc news. i'm mark lobel. our top stories — gunfire pakistan's former prime minister imran khan survives a gun attack during a protest march. we're on the front line, as ukraine makes a slow advance on the russian—held city of kherson, amid reports russia could be preparing to withdraw. they are under the russian guns. and this is what happens to them every day. that's why since the summer they've been talking about it, and it is hard to move forward. german

chancellor 0laf