this is bbc news, we will have the headlines— this is bbc news, we will have the headlines and _ this is bbc news, we will have the headlines and the - this is bbc news, we will have the headlines and the main- the headlines and the main story— the headlines and the main story is_ the headlines and the main story is for— the headlines and the main story is for you _ the headlines and the main story is for you as - the headlines and the main story is for you as newsday continues_ story is for you as newsday continues straight- story is for you as newsday continues straight after- continues straight after hardtalk _ welcome to hardtalk from helsinki. i'm stephen sackur. when vladimir putin launched his invasion of ukraine, he probably didn't consider the impact it would have on another neighbour, finland. but maybe he should have, because after decades of pragmatic coexistence, finland has made a big strategic decision to join nato, to send weapons to kyiv, and to build a big fence along the border with russia to keep russians out.

my guest today is the president of finland, sauli niinisto. do finns now see russia as the enemy nextdoor? president sauli niinisto, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. mr president, finland hasjust made a major strategic shift. this country is now prepared to join nato. how big a deal is that? it is, but if you look back at the time before the cold war ended, that is the beginning of the 90s, we have all the time developed our

interoperability with nato. our armament is, well, quite modern, us—based, mostly. so, in a way, we have been very prepared all the time. but the changes, like you said, remarkable. it is remarkable because public opinion has moved so far so fast. just a year ago, polls suggested that 20 to 30% of firms liked the idea ofjoining nato, now it is 75 to 80%. is that based on a new level of fear of neighbouring russia? first of all, even though so many said a year ago that no reason to apply for membership of nato, they were not actually against nato, it was more like a rational or pragmatic opinion, we don't need it now, and that is why we kept on saying, our governments,

that we keep the door open for the possibility to apply. what happened, actually, was that in december last year, putin gave a speech saying that no more enlargement of nato. which was a message, in part, to finland. that was a huge message because so far, i had been explaining, many others, that from our own wheel we stay militarily unaligned, and we even thought that it would in a way balance the situation in the baltic area. now, russia is saying, you can'tjoin. that surely changes. what about... well, let's get to that idea of fear. is there a new level of fear in this country of your great neighbour russia because of putin's

invasion of ukraine? we have centuries of experience of russians and we are cautious. i guess everything is cautious when we talk about russia. fear is a bit exaggeration here. is it? is it exaggeration when you see what has happened since february of this year, see what putin is prepared to do to ukraine? well, you might call it fear, but i see it otherwise. inside finns, like i said for centuries, is a very good knowledge of russia, and that hasn't been so positive all the times we have had experiences. and now after ukraine, attack to ukraine, well, that mind told that, well, we have been cautious for good reasons. let me ask you about

your relationship with vladimir putin. you probably more than any other head of state in europe know putin well, i think you've had a dozen meetings with him over many years. i think i'm right in saying you've played ice hockey with him. you, even as i understand it, introduced him to your own mother. is that true? yes, actually, my mother happened to be in my residence and she wanted to see. so you called putin in may as finland made the decision to seek nato�*s membership. you spoke to him direct? yeah. what did he say to you when you told him? first of all, why i called him, i am not a fellow who sneaks away around the corner so i thought that it's clear, straightforward, telling him, well, we are going to nato. he took it very calmly, saying that you make a mistake, but he, how did he express it?

he doesn't consider it as a threat to russia. this was his comment. and i'm sure that he knew what i why i'm calling for and he had decided to take it calmly. you personally, mr president, have clearly believed you could have a good, positive working relationship with putin. you've had it for years. you were one of the key advocates for a pragmatic cooperation with russia. would you now acknowledge to me that you got putin wrong? you might well think that way, but. well, don't you think that way? i want to refer to our first discussion that took place almost immediately i took the office, when i met him in russia. he said to me that, why are you going to nato? i said that our government has now decided not to do any

preparation on that, but that we will enhance our cooperation with nato, with our partnership with bilaterally with sweden, even with the usa. and i want european union to develop more defense thinking. he asked me why and i said that every independent nations maximize their security. and russian understands that kind of expressions. so why, why it was in a way important to, to try to have normal relations, at least normal relations. we had a long borderline. i know. in 2015, we suddenly saw that they let people come, so—called refugees, from 30 countries to finland, crossing

the border, asking for asylum. you mean weaponising the migration issue? in a way, a human weapon. and you fear that for the future? we are prepared for that, too. let me ask you this. but if i continue that, and i still see that we have to be pragmatic in certain issues like maritime in the gulf of finland, there is a lot of traffic. and finland, estonia, russia are controlling that together. but you bring me this very important point, mr president. you have this long border with a very powerful neighbour. russia has significant leverage it can use against finland, starting with energy, oil and gas. you are now facing a real energy crisis this winter. it's not that you use a huge amount of russian oil

and gas, but you use some. you're facing blackouts this winter. your people may begin to wonder whether you can afford putin as an enemy. no, i do not believe that such a discussion will appear in finland, because actually we are we are not in that bad position with our energy. well, you're going to have blackouts this winter. are you sure? well, your own ministers have said if we do not control the use of electricity and power, we are going to face a crisis. that's a bit different than blackouts, if we try to save energy. and you have to know that we have now a new nuclear power plant starting, a big one. so things are not surely in the best possible way in finland, but we are a lot better, in a lot better position than central european.

you talked about the traffic of people across your borders. finland has taken the decision to stop all tourist visa entry from russia. yes. alongside the baltic states. a clear message to moscow? yes. france and germany have said they're not prepared to do that. in fact, the germans think it's a mistake because they think it's going to stop those young men who want to avoid serving in the russian military, it's going to stop them seeking safe haven in the european union. do you think you might have made a mistake? france and germany don't have a common border. it's easy to shout a bit further away, but you have to keep in mind that finland respects its international agreements and legislation, for example, concerning asylum. so if people are in a position

of having an absolute need for shelter, they will surely ask asylum. and finland is prepared to offer russians political asylum if they say they are opposed to putin's regime? that will be studied case by case. when it comes to the european reaction to what is happening in ukraine, are you satisfied with the level of assistance, both military and financial, that europe is giving to kyiv? i'm almost sure that nobody... ..and specifically not russians could estimate earlier on how big the european american help will be, how extensive.

with armament, with money. the other question is whether it's enough or not. and what's the answer? what we have seen actually is that in the very beginning, after february 24th, there were lots of fears about enlargement and the escalation of the crisis. and little by little we have seen heavier armament, more armament delivered to ukraine. but the point is, mr president, the vast majority of that weaponry, particularly the most powerful weapon, is coming from the united states. that is true. their military assistance amounts to something like 27 billion usd. now, key economies in europe, france, germany, i dare say yours to your contributions in terms of military equipment are minimal

compared with the americans. why? do you know what i'm thinking when we happen to have this long border line, too, what about if we give up our armament? well, right now, ukraine's need is more serious than yours. well, but... or are you actually, are you more frightened of russia than you wanted to tell me at the beginning of this interview? like i said, after ending of cold war, we have all the time in building up our military resources. and i would say that we are proportionally one of the strongest, if not strongest, in europe. we never gave up and we have understood all the time to be cautious. but continue being cautious is also important. but ukraine's need is now. and it is urgent. and it is not even

just about weaponry, it's about money, too. the imf reckons that ukraine will need roughly e3 billion per month to get through. and you have to keep in mind... actually, i have been talking to president zelensky often, and he will express his very clearly what they want. there are very few elements we haven't given them, but most of their needs we have fulfilled. and when it comes to monetary aid... ..we have been helping international organisations, and you can't see that as a direct help to ukraine, even though it's used in ukraine. let's talk about the future and about the end game for this ukraine, russia war and crisis for all of europe. do you believe that europe, finland, must support ukraine

with weapons and money until every last russian soldier has been forced out of every inch of ukrainian territory? in other words, is total ukrainian victory your vision of what the end of this looks like? my vision is that the moment ukraine announces that they are satisfied and they start maybe negotiations or whatever, then... listening to them. rather than making your own decisions on situations. so you will be entirely driven by president zelensky and the ukrainian government's view? what they want. zelensky�*s view is quite clear there will be no more negotiations with vladimir putin. he, according to the ukrainian government, is a war criminal and they will not deal with him.

are you now prepared to deal with vladimir putin, to talk to him as you've done in the past so many times? first of all, i know what president zelensky has been saying and, well, we are following now what he's saying. have you talked to putin since may when you told him you were joining nato? no. do you do you regard vladimir putin today as a war criminal? uh, there are investigations, and i support that. it has to be investigated like it's proposed. mr president, you see the facts on the ground, as i do, from bucha to mariupol. do you need investigations to answer a question as simple as this? is vladimir putin responsible for war crimes? that should be condemned, like in international legislation, we have agreed.

is vladimir putin responsible for war crimes? it seems to be the case. is that a yes? hm? i believe that it is... it seems to be the case that he is responsible what has been happening and done criminal acts. thank you for being clear. in that case, how can you or emmanuel macron or 0laf scholzjustify the idea of still talking to vladimir putin? i am a strong supporter of macron and scholz continuing if there is a possibility of saving human lives. you have to keep that also in mind. if there is a possibility, is so, it has to be used. but i don't see just at

the moment such a possibility. we've talked a lot about your relationship with russia and how it is changing, in fact, changing in dramatic ways. one area, arena, of potential confrontation in the future is the arctic north. hmm. do you believe that the world's great powers, i'm thinking of the united states, i'm thinking of russia, i'm thinking of china, too, do you think that they are looking at the arctic and actively wanting to exploit its oil and gas resources, its commodities and its shipping routes in a way that is going to further damage the planet, release more greenhouse gases, and actually leave your country struggling even more? trying even to aim that the arctic will melt. really... you think...? that's you know,

i do not believe that. but yes, there are huge expectations of maritime routes and natural resources. and the interest hasn't been only russian—chinese, it has been also european. i said sometimes that there are both both benefits and dangers. now i'm turning more only to dangers because benefits — actually more gas, more oil when we are trying to get rid of fossil, that's not a benefit. are you going to go to cop27 in egypt and deliver that message to the united states, to china, to russia? not this time. but i have delivered this

message to both president putin and president trump very clearly that if we lose the arctic, we lose the globe. mr president, i want to end actually with one other challenge you faced in the last few months. it's one that the world has watched with some interest. your prime minister, who you obviously have to work with very closely, sanna marin, she got into trouble in this country because some pictures and video was leaked which showed her partying with friends in the summer. now, she regretted some of those pictures that were leaked. she agreed to take a drug test, which, of course, proved negative. but there was much discussion in this country first of all, of what she did, but also whether it was fair the way it was reported. you work with her very closely. i'd be very interested to know what you said to her at the time and whether you think it's done damage both to her and to finland?

actually, we haven't been talking with her about that. so damage... well, we see that her support, according to polls, is like it used to be. so no damage. and i do not believe that it has damaged finland's reputation. do you think she was... do you think she was treated... you know you've been in politics a long time. do you think she was treated differently because she is a woman, relatively in political terms, a young woman? well, i have to say that during my times when i was younger, uh, well, i met quite a lot of critics for good reasons. but nevertheless... so he was dealt quite hardly. but i know a lot of politicians

who have been dealt hardly. you have served, what, at least ten years in this office? you're one of the longest serving leaders and heads of state in all of europe. do you contemplate leaving office, as you will, in a year or two's time, feeling very positive about europe's future? or not? i don't know at the moment. i'm very worried. like we all are, i guess, because we are facing like we all are, i guess. because we are facing now in europe a world which we couldn't imagine a year ago or let's say two years ago. let's take an example about daily discussion of using nuclear bombs. ten years ago, you didn't hear

the burning nuclear bomb being publicly said. so do you think... putin again, you know putin well. do you really think putin is capable of first use of a nuclear weapon in the ukraine war? i don't know him that well and what he's thinking, but what... what i...think or what i have seen actually, that he has like a poker player put all in, including himself at his fate. and...it�*s very difficult to try to estimate. i don't know him, but... to try to estimate. ..for any person who is in such a position, what will happen when the truth comes to your face? what will happen? that's a question for me to...

to which you fear the answer is maybe the worst possible outcome? i wouldn't. .. i'm not thinking about nuclear bombs. because, well, everybody who is using nuclear bomb or thinking about that has to realise that nobody is winning anything. and, at the end, everybody is losing as much. we have to end there, but president niinisto, thank you very much indeed for being on hardtalk. thank you.

hello. river flows across the uk have been responding to the much—needed rainfall we have had this week. for some, though, it has been a bit too much all at once. in kent and sussex in particular where only six days into the month, we have already had double the normal november rainfall in a few spots. that will help to top the reservoirs up, it will take a little bit longer, but more rain to come, some heavy showers across the south—east through the night and into the morning, and then the rest of the week with low pressure dominating to the west. for monday, though, it is throwing weather fronts and plenty of moisture our our way in terms of cloud. cloud and outbreaks of rain across most parts of the uk through monday will come and go. most persistent through the cumbrian fails, perhaps dumfries and galloway, and across snowdonia. there will be some brighter spells towards southern england and northern parts of scotland, especially. but even though we have got excessive amounts of cloud, the winds coming from the south—west,

temperatures above where we should be at this stage in november, 12 to 15 degrees. those winds strengthen through the evening, a spell of squally rain will keep some of you awake monday night into tuesday, wind gusts through monday night could be around 40, 50, maybe 60 miles an hour at times before that band of heavy rain gradually clears towards the east. and then it puts us into a straightforward mixture of sunshine and showers, and the temperature staying on the mild side. this is how we start tuesday, ten to 13 degrees. just to give you a bit of context, this is where we should be by day at this time of the year. this is the chart for tuesday, low—pressure to the north—west, around it we will see plenty of bands of showers pushing their way in but compared with monday, that will be more sunshine, so sunshine, showers, sunshine, showers, it will be one of those ever—changing days. staying dry for longest if not completely dry in parts of northern scotland and some in eastern england, again, temperatures above where we should be for this stage in the year. wednesday, the winds shift a little bit to more of a westerly direction. so, early showers around the english channel will fade

and some south—eastern areas will get through the day largely dry, if not completely dry, showers more frequent in parts of scotland, northern ireland and north—west england. a touch fresher on wednesday but through wednesday night into thursday, the next deep load for the north atlantic starts to drag up ahead of these weather fronts some very mild air all the way from the mid—atla ntic. that will bring warmer conditions any time of year but this time of the year it will bring lots of cloud around. of rain and drizzle in the west but that cloud will start to break up later in the week with a bit more sunshine and temperatures still continuing to climb.

welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, i'm karishma vaswani. the headlines. dire warnings for the future of the planet — as the un's annual climate change summit, gets under way in egypt. research suggests the last eight years could be the hottest on record. we must answer the planet's distress signal through action and credible climate action. at least 19 people have died — after a passenger plane crashes into lake victoria in tanzania — during stormy weather. pakistan's former prime minister, imran khan, criticises the police for allegedly not investigating the gun attack against him on thursday.