this is bbc news, the headlines. the head of the un has told the cop27 climate summit global warming is changing the world at a catastrophic pace. the annual meeting will discuss giving money to poorer countries to deal with climate—related losses and damage they've already suffered. the prime minister of tanzania has confirmed at least 19 people were killed when a passenger plane crashed into lake victoria in tanzania while attempting to land in stormy weather. authorities say more than 20 people survived the crash, and were taken to hospital. leading republicans and democrats in the united states are stepping up their campaign efforts ahead of tuesday's mid—term elections. president biden and donald trump have both addressed rallies in support of their chosen candidates.

about a0 million americans have already cast their ballots. now on bbc news, political thinking with nick robinson. hello and welcome to political thinking, a conversation with rather than an interrogation of someone who shapes our political thinking about what shapes theirs. in a new cabinet dominated by public schoolboys and oxbridge graduates, the new education secretary stands out. gillian keegan�*s old school, a comprehensive in knowsley called st augustine's, was nicknamed st disgusting before it was shut down a couple of years after she left. like most kids at her school, gillian left at the age of 16 and went to be an apprentice at a carfactory.

now, that was a springboard, as we'll hear, for a very successful business career. she went on to become the commercial director at mastercard, chief marketing officer at a big travel firm called travelport. her boss now, rishi sunak, says a good education is the closest thing we have to a silver bullet when it comes to making people's lives better. gillian keegan, welcome to political thinking. thank you for having me. now, just a month ago, i interviewed the new education secretary, kit malthouse, here on political thinking. and my first question was something along the lines of what's it like being the fourth education secretary in five months? you're now the fifth education secretary in six months. it's not good enough, is it? well, you can't get too much education, can you? but, i mean, clearly, as a party, we've been through, you know, a bit of a difficult time over the last couple of months and there's been lots of changes. you know, the great resignation

and then there was movements around the cabinet and then we've obviously had the change of leadership after boris, obviously liz and now rishi, and that's brought about some changes. is there a danger, though, that people in the system, when they hear you, will simply think, just let's wait, let's drag our feet a bit because there'll be another one along in a few months? no, because they've actually got used to me a lot. and one of the things i did when i was the skills and apprenticeship minister is introduce the first t levels, the new t levels, and it was in the pandemic, there was a lot of discussion — let's delay, let's delay a year. i did not buy that. i phoned up every college principal. they were all for going ahead. they said, we've waited too long to reform technical education in this country. let's get on with it. so they know i'm somebody that just. .. you know, i have not come into this job to delay stuff, to write bits of paper that don't go anywhere. i'm really much more about getting stuff done. now, you're a new education secretary, but your friends say in a sense, your life was a preparation for this job. is that how it feels? yes.

even in politics, which i never thought of being a politician at all, i never thought of being an mp. but even when i first started, ifelt like my life had kind of been leading to this point without me knowing. and certainly, education secretary, if you could choose one thing, it would be education secretary, not only going to a failing comprehensive school in knowsley for the full five years and getting really in my dna... people say about levelling up, about recognising that talent is everywhere but opportunity isn't — i lived that and i thoroughly and fully believe it. and i know because i see the faces of all the people who were there, i still see them. all my friends are mostly still in knowsley. we'll talk about the good bits in a second, but first of all, the bad. why was it nicknamed st disgusting? 0h, they werejust jealous, i'm sure. no, i don't know. was it really poor? there were some ten comprehensive schools in knowsley. they were all failing. they were all inadequate. they weren't rated then, but they would have all been inadequate.

92% of the kids left without the four or five 0 levels, as they were when i was there, to get on to the next stage of education, 92% — so that left 8% who did. now, i was one of the 8% which... you got ten o—levels. i did, which was a bit of a miracle. it wasn't really down to me so much as more down to a teacher, and that's why i love education. everyone who goes into teaching, they want to change somebody�*s life. hopefully a lot of kids�* lives. but mr ashcroft, who was my teacher, he changed many lives at st augustine's, and he basically stayed behind after school till 5:30pm every day to enable me to study technical drawing, engineering and that's how i managed to do ten o—levels. and, yeah, he basically guided me there and guided me onto my apprenticeship. that's when you went on to an apprenticeship in a carfactory, which we'll talk about. but you were unusual. a lot of your friends, people you are still in touch with, didn't get ten, maybe didn't get any. so my two best friends and i walking home from school, having picked up our results,

one of them got zero, the other one got one cse grade one and i got ten. the conversation was not about my ten, it was all about why one of them had got one and the other one had got zero. so that was normal. most people did not get any, or one or two, at best. now, we've talked to jackie, yourfriend. oh, god! she said that you always knew the way to get out of where you grew up was through a good education. was that your thinking? this is the way to escape? it was my mother's thinking, but not escape. my dad worked in mcalpine. he was an office manager for road building and he had probably the samejob from when he was about 28. he kind of started morejunior, he got thatjob about 28, and he did thatjob for all of his life. he was getting up early, he was driving to wherever the motorway was being built. sometimes we moved with him, but when we were older we didn't, and he always felt that he was held back because he didn't have what he called the bit of paper.

and he was always keen that we were not held back by what he thought was sort of artificial in terms of your abilities, because you can overcome qualifications through experience, etc. that was what held him back and he never get to where he could have got to. so he was the one saying, do your homework, get your exams? yeah, and mum. and so he was the one, you know, basically thinking it was important and mum was also the one who wanted...she had this view that, you know, we were her children, we could be whatever as long as we worked hard and smiled. that was her basic advice in life. for people who don't know knowsley, it's a pretty poor part of merseyside. you were part of a very big liverpool catholic family. yes. all living near to each other, i imagine. yep, yep. there were seven in our street. seven of your family. seven of our family in our street. yeah, well, doors always open, always in and out of. yeah, yeah. i mean, it was good for things like tools, you know, you didn't have to buy a full set, you could all, you know, share it between the households.

that was the saturday morning routine of my dad, my uncles, etc, my cousins. i mean, we're a super close family. my mum and grandad, my paternal grandparents lived on a council estate, you know, less than a mile away and my nanna and grandad lived on a council estate at the end of our road and we were all within a mile of each other. yeah. politics discussed at home? the only time i remember it was my grandad was a miner, so when the miners strike was happening, that was a big discussion. now, miners families. usually, not always, but usually very anti—tory, would have been anti ted heath in the seventies. very opposed to margaret thatcher. and you were in liverpool. yes. in which as it were, it was through the mother's milk often was the idea that you would be anti—tory and frankly i don't think it's too strong a word, hate margaret thatcher. my grandad, i think it's fair to say, he was probably around about hate levels. he also hated arthur scargill,

which was interesting. he thoughtjoe gormley was his man. he was the guy that he thought was reasonable that would have had the right relationship to navigate what he could see was some aspects that needed to be... a union leader of the previous generation. you know, he wasn't a fan of arthur scargill at all. so a little bit of politics in your house. but not a massive amount. what about, though, the fact that at that stage we're now in the early eighties, liverpool is run by a militant with a capital m. in other words, derek hatton of the militant tendency, who was alienated from the labour party and the enemy of margaret thatcher. what did you make of him at the time? if you want to know what not to do in life, how not to run things in life, how not to behave in life, you know, he's the guy. i have nothing really good to say about him. and you came across him, though, once, didn't you? i did, i did. they were opening a wine bar called natterjacks in huyton, and there aren't that many wine bars in huyton, i think it's fair to say there was none. there was just pubs, and it was a room in a hotel.

and my friend jackie and i were there, we were going in and there was a guy there. it was quite astonishing because there was a jag outside with a driver in and there was a guy at the door sort of saying hello to everybody with champagne, moet and chandon. you never saw champagne in huyton in knowsley at all in those days. so, yeah, we met him. he gave me a glass of champagne. oh, really? he did. he gave me and my friend a glass of champagne. it was a moment because you say there wasn't a lot of politics at home. doesn't sound like you were very political when you were young. was that the beginning of a journey away from the politics which you must have grown up in, labour politics, towards the conservative party? or did that have to wait till you were working in that carfactory? well, i'd already started working in the car factory. i started working in the car factory at 16. as you know, the legal age for drinking is 18. so i'd already started working in the car factory. in fact, i probably wouldn't have afforded to be able to go if i hadn't. and is that where the politics began to affect

your apprenticeship? yes. as i understand it, you're buying car parts. well, it was actually a rotation, what would be called now a rotational degree level apprenticeship. so for three years, you went round every single bit of the car factory, whether it was toolmaking, whether it's production, whether it's expediting, whether it was design, accounts, all of the different parts, distribution, advertising. so you went round all of it. it was the most brilliant apprenticeship because by the time you'd gone through those three years, you're pretty much the only few people who understood how the whole business knitted together. it gave me my real love and interest in business. but car factories in those days were very heavily unionised and had a lot of strikes. the union guy used to come and see me on a weekly basis and try and strongarm me intojoining and i didn't like the style of that. i didn't like him trying to threaten me. you know, i'd be the first one out if there was any problems. it just seemed wrong. so you neverjoined. never joined, which was unusual. but then the strikes started happening and the substance of the strikes were artificial

in some cases, you know, they were over sort of restrictive working practices that just were ancient. you didn't need to keep... you needed to have discussions about how to change them. and ijust saw lots and lots of strikes and i used to say to them, you're acting as though you're the only people in the world who can make a car part. you are not. if you carry on like this, you will find that all of these women who work in the shop floor, and it was largely women who really relied on thisjob in kirby — it fitted with the school hours reasonably well — they will be out of a job and there will be nothing that will replace it. that's not easy. it felt right, though. i felt very strongly. when we talk to people about why you've got on in the tory party. you were a remainer. yes. and you're serving a brexiteer. you got given jobs by politicians who you didn't vote for. yes. your friend justine greening said to us it's because you make people laugh, it's because you're gregarious. do you think that's a skill you learnt in that car factory?

definitely. agreeing how to disagree without falling out. and you can do that all the time. you know, in my life, i've always tried to find the one thing we agree on, not the ten things we disagree on. i mean, you mentioned you spoke to jackie. you know, we met when we were very young. we were ten. she's labour. she actually voted leave. i said to her, this was our one time to agree and she, you know, cocked it up. but, anyway, she doesn't agree but we've never agreed on so much stuff and we've been best friends for 44 years. and, you know, that is because you don't have to agree with people, you have to just understand where they're coming from. people will have different opinions and that's perfectly valid. so you leave that car factory. yes. you go into business. well, i was in business. in the car factory, sure. true. but you go into senior business positions. did you, at that stage, think about politics or were you just loving the success you were making in business? i never thought about politics

at all, apart from just voting. so, at the age of 19, when i first voted, i voted conservative and i haven't really changed since, but i didn't think about it as a career at all. i loved what i did. it was really interesting. business was really interesting. trying to create jobs is really interesting. trying to create businesses and grow them internationally is really interesting and that's what i've done. i've always worked for multinationals and i've always worked in different parts of the world and i've even lived in some different parts of the world as well. it was a fascinating journey. i loved it. people who have worked abroad, who lived abroad, often look at britain in a slightly different way. they suddenly look in at their old country... yeah. did you? yes. well, first of all, it makes you love the bbc world service because that is your consistent link to home. secondly, you see how others view your country. and i think it's fair to say that most people view our country much more... hold our country in much higher esteem than perhaps we do ourselves. and i found that in

the foreign office as well when i was briefly there over the summer. you think that's still true? i do, i do. i was only in the foreign office recently. so, there we are, very successful making, i imagine, quite a lot of money as well. yes. what on earth gets into your mind to think, i know what i'll do later in life is i'm going to go into politics? well, the first thing that happened on thatjourney was i came back from madrid in 2009 to live back in the uk, and by that point i wasn't bored of business, i'd loved it, but i thought, you know, we're only here for a short time in this world and i could get a different experience, something completely different. so it opened my mind. but i still didn't come to politics until i met baroness annejenkin in a theatre randomly, and she was with somebody i knew. now she's a conservative peer. yeah. who i think it's fair to say, set herself up. that was then supported to get more women through the conservative party into senior positions. she became your mentor. she set it up with theresa may to get more women involved. she basically goes around

the place looking for conservative women who may want to sort of spend their next career as a conservative mp. you ran first of all, you didn't run for a seat in merseyside where you're from, but you kept your married name to run. were the family ashamed or embarrassed that you were running as a conservative? well, up until that point i had used my maiden name in business, which was gibson. and when i stood, it was actually my dad. he looked a little bit worried and he said, does thisjob come with insurance? i said, what are you talking about? i was putting a poster up. he said, i'm worried someone's going to put something through the window. and i said to him... and it's the first time i thought about actually the impact of my change of career on my parents, who i adore. and i thought, actually, maybe...because i'd been married for years to michael but i thought, what's the point of swapping gibson for keegan? i mean, they're both sort of bog—standard names, right? so i didn't really bother. and i said, would it help

if i sort of moved to keegan and went to gillian keegan, and the look of relief on his face, so that's what i did. i stood as gillian keegan. even though you were living in your old parents�* house? i was in my old bedroom, yeah, back there, which was lovely. and what about their attitude then? worried? yes. were they appalled ? i mean, were they kind of — what are you doing? because your grandparents were from labour stock, weren't they? oh, they're all from labour stock. and most of my cousins are from labour stock. in fact, i found out over the weekend, i think i have a union rep as one of my cousins, which is a national teacher's union, education union. it could be useful or not, i'm not sure. but, yeah. they all come from labour stock. they weren't embarrassed. they're super proud of me, actually. now they're really proud. and when you show a leaflet to your grandma? oh, well i showed my leaflet to my grandma. well, she was in a care home with dementia. she always loved looking at pictures of me and i had lots of pictures on the leaflet. so she's looking. she said, who's that fella?

you know, isaid, oh, that's a college kid i'm talking to. and, you know, so she was asking about the pictures and then i put the leaflet to one side, we were chatting, murder she wrote is on in the background, and she looked and then suddenly her face went like thunder. she went, that's not my party. i said, flipping heck, nan, you can't remember what you had for breakfast, but you remember you're labour, which was hysterical. but did she know it was you, though? she knew that you were running? she did, isaid, nan, we've never agreed on it. we've always had a different viewpoint. she went, oh, love, oh, all right, then. so, she was lovely, my nan. i was very close to her. this was all good preparation for you going into parliament where there's basically a war going on. david cameron's gone by the time you're in there because he's lost that referendum. you were a remainer and you pulled on your business knowledge to argue the case for remain. and what's more, you're a friend of the speaker, john bercow, a family friend. mm—hm. how uncomfortable was that? i think it was uncomfortable for everybody. i mean, i like to get on with people and i don't

like to see, you know, that kind of conflict. i was saved in one way. there's a whatsapp group, a tory mps whatsapp group, and i don't know whether nobody noticed i was there, but i never got put on it. so actually when everyone was arguing on this whatsapp group, which was leaking readily to you probably and many otherjournalists, i wasn't actually on it, so i didn't see the extent of that. but you could see it in the tea room. obviously, you could see it in the chamber, you could see it in the country. in one way, parliamentary democracy and representation was shown, in one way, to represent the country. it was happening in families, it was happening in pubs, it was happening in schools, it was happening in workplaces. everybody was talking about it and having a different view. so it was just something we had to go through as a country. we didn't have to go through. david cameron chose to have a referendum, he could have chosen not to. as someone who'd been a business leader, who worked around the world, worked for global companies, clearly thought leaving the eu was a mistake, did it make you hesitate to go into politics?

just think, i should say to this lot, look, you've just made a terrible mistake? no, not at all. i mean, you have to have your views represented. at that point, i was thinking, well, you know, we've made a difficult decision. there are upsides to the decision. this is not a binary decision. i mean, i came down on remain because i looked at it through the eyes of an international businessperson but there are some upsides as well. there are upsides through autonomy. not economically that we've yet seen. in other words, there are theoretical upsides that we could regulate less or in a different way from the eu. you make your own decisions. you can tax in a different way. but we've yet to see any economic benefits, have we? the benefits will come from being agile, the agility of being able to decide ourselves as opposed to having to get a consensus with 27 others. a little earlier you talked of your friend jackie and you said she cocked it up when you said she voted leave. she cocked up the opportunity for us to agree, not her decision. that the first politician's

answer you've given. well, i'll tell you even more. i think you think she was wron. ., ., ., is it unacceptable now to just say to people, i still think i was right about remaining, we made a mistake? i don't and i'll tell you why and it wasn't jackie. my mum and dad, through this process, i discovered had not even voted to go in in the first place. i never knew that about them. that's how little we discussed politics. but they had made a decision in the �*75 referendum that they did not think it was a good idea just conceptually to be in with this group. and that's when it was a trading relationship. so i respect them and i respect other people's viewpoints. you can argue this either way, but the day after the referendum, and i was upset by the result, i'll be honest, but the day after i thought, we have to do this. we have to do it in a sensible way, and we have to do it in a way that obviously keeps our relationships intact as much as possible.

because i also understood how disappointing it would be for almost every european country. now, ifirst noticed you when you did something extraordinary. you did something that breaks all the rules. you came on the today programme and when asked a question you said, i don't know. you were doing something that people don't normally do. not really. it was such a lesson. so it was when they were changing all the rules, we were in the pandemic, everybody had their own bits of, you know, what we should do, you know? and we had north, east, north sunderland was different from newcastle. we had all these different rules and they said, how many people can sit outside on a picnic bench in somewhere or whatever? and i actually had half a clue because i had looked at great detail, i'm quite a detailed person at these rules, but i wasn't sure whether it was liverpool or somewhere in the north east that you could sit on a picnic bench and i didn't want to mislead people and i said, look, i'm really sorry, i don't know, but there is a website if you want to go and they'll tell you. i thought that was honestly the right thing to do.

well, it turned out i became the news story. i was on gogglebox, i was on the news quiz. which conservative politician doesn't know...? as though i was the stupidest person. obviously the knowsley comprehensive education... did that come out? it didn't... it did with a few people. "you're always a little bit too thick to know the answer." yes, yes. and i thought, well, you're too thick to see what i've done in the intervening period. you know, it's all there on wikipedia. this is the perfect set—up for me to ask you some questions about what you'll do as education secretary because... i hope i know! this is not, you know, a news interrogation, as i always say. if you don't know or don't want to say yet, you can say. money you'll know is going to be one of the big ones, isn't it? oncejeremy hunt, the new chancellor, announces spending on schools per pupil, real terms, is lower than it was when the tories came into power in 2010. truth is, it's not going to get higher, is it? well, this is the real difficulty across all of government and, you know, i have a lot of sympathy with jeremy and the prime minister,

who are now sort of sat there trying to figure out how we navigate this, these economic challenges without making things worse. we have to tackle inflation and bring it under control, if we don't, any spending decision that's made, whether it's up or down, any of it, will all get eaten by inflation. so the number one thing you have to do is you need to get inflation under control. otherwise, all the other numbers are kind of irrelevant. so that's the number one thing. they have to focus on that, and that's what we'll do. after saying that, everybody knows, and we did get a big increase actually in this spending review, we got another £4 billion for schools and we've got a big increase in skills as well... that will disappear because of inflation. well, that showed at the time that there was a real recognition that we really did need to invest in education. and the school standards have gone up massively since 2010. so you say about the money going down, but the standards have gone up massively. so it's not all about money. money is important,

but it is about the teaching and our teachers are fantastic and they just want to get better and better. just a few quick ones which you may not be able to say. you may not have decided because you're just in the job. more grammar schools, new ones, notjust extending the old ones, yes or no? well, the thing about grammar schools is 90—odd% of kids just never get to go to one. there was no grammar school anywhere near knowsley. someone will find one now, but i didn't know of it if it existed. what i'm focused on is the 90—odd% who will go to comprehensive education like i did. i'm not against them. it is not a priority. i think that people who went to the grammar school will see them as a life—changing moment. and they have changed lives like my apprenticeship. so, you know, people love them but we've got to focus on the 90—odd% who don't get to go to them. so given all that you've said, you're new in thejob, money's short. the amount of time you've got

before the next election is short, what is the key thing you'll want to look back on and say, even if i only ended up with a year and a half in thisjob, and you hope for longer, but it's that, i've done this? it's the reform of our technical education and making sure everybody has access to quality apprenticeships. we have 1.3 million high qualityjobs in this country, vacancies, and we have businesses that want to grow. i have one crucial final policy question. if you were in charge, what would you force matt hancock to eat in the jungle? oh, goodness. his words. i don't watch thejungle programme. i can't think of anything worse than going on that programme but i guess he's chosen a different career. and he might get to eat a kangaroo penis. i guess you could do that without going, i don't know! if that's your goal in life, i'm sure you could order one online. you obviously go to different restaurants and cafes than i do! no, no, no. i think we should leave it there. gillian keegan, thank you very much forjoining me on political thinking.

thank you very much for having me. it's that personality. it's that ability to deal with conflict, to still be friends with people you fundamentally disagree with — that is clearly such an important part of gillian keegan's rise to the top. the difficulty for her, for all of us, in truth, though, is that for many business leaders, that is a route they simply do not want to take. there are very many talented people who find the politics of today completely alienating. that's it from this edition of political thinking. thanks for watching. hello, a barely cloudy and damp day on monday for many, a bit of sunshine here and there,

east of england and north of scotland, but kent and sussex lots of rain this weekend, some showers which could cause flooding, they will ease a bit. the hills of snowdonia, west cumbria and dumfries and galloway, some rain at times. sunshine in the north—east of scotland and the southern counties at the end of the day, pretty mild even with the cloud, because the wind is coming in from the south, it will strengthen later, and a wild night to come. heavy rain in wales and the south—west in the evening, spreading east across england and wales before gradually clearing. we will all see rain on monday night and tuesday, but the winds could wake you up, maybe 60 mph at times. still coming from the south, so a mild night to take us into tuesday. tuesday will be a day of sunshine and showers.

welcome to bbc news — i'm rich preston — our top stories. more than four and a half million ukranians are living without power as president zelensky warns russia is planning to continue attacking his country's infrastructure. there's devastation in the city of mariupol — where an estimated 25 thousand people were killed during russian bombardments — we have a special report. a dire warning for the future of the planet — as the un's annual climate change summit gets under way in egypt, research suggests the last eight years could be the hottest on record. we must answer the planet's distress signal through action and credible climate action. at least 19 people have died after a passenger plane crashes

into lake victoria in tanzania during stormy weather.