this is bbc news — these are the latest headlines in the uk and around the world. ukrainians celebrate into the night as russia withdraws thousands of soldiers from the city of kherson after months of occupation. in the us, the democrats have taken a step closer to retaining control of the senate, as mark kelly is re—elected in arizona. former uk health secretary matt hancock has said he is looking for forgiveness on tv show i'm a celebrity get me out of here. what i'm really looking for is a bit of forgiveness. that is what i am really looking for. film of forgiveness. that is what i am really looking for.— really looking for. oh my god, i nearly cried _ really looking for. oh my god, i nearly cried then. _ new zealand have beaten england to win the women's rugby world cup in front of a capacity

crowd in auckland. hello and welcome to viewers in the uk and around the world. we begin in ukraine where people are getting used to the reclaim of kherson. the united states has said ukraine achieved an "extraordinary victory" after its military forces regained control of kherson following a total russian withdrawal.

in kherson, residents celebrated the russian withdrawal long into the night. the bbc�*s david lumb reports. cheering. celebrations marking an important and symbolic win in this bloody war. kherson now back in ukraine hands after eight months of russian occupation. president zelensky called it an historic day, "we are taking our country back," he said, but vladimir putin's spokesman denied the retreat was humiliating, with officials describing the withdrawal as merely a redeployment. kherson is strategically vital. the withdrawal allows the russians to use the dnipro river as a defensive barrier to protect earlier gains. as they left, russian engineers blew up part of the antonovski bridge. lines of troops can be seen using a temporary crossing, before that was cut, too.

speaking at a south east asian summit in cambodia, this morning the ukraine foreign minister said the fight would continue. we won the battle for kherson. kherson in the south, it was quite an exercise, i must say, but the war goes on and i understand that everyone wants this war to end as soon as possible, and we're definitely the ones who want it more than anybody else. the retreat did look better organized than some of russia's others in ukraine. not much left behind. a few dozen shells, mostly rubbish. cheering. for now, a time to celebrate but with russian guns only a few miles away, the people here are not out of danger. david lumb, bbc news.

earlier i spoke to our correspondent in kyiv catherine byaruhanga about what this means in the wider context of the war. the ukrainian officials are calling it a stabilisation process, they haven't moved all of their troops into carson city at once, they have sentin into carson city at once, they have sent in a special unit to try to take control of the city. —— mike kherson. we have heard that there were some russian soldiers left behind, we understand there are still some clashes with ukrainian forces and so the ukrainian government still needs to deal with those remnants of the russian forces. but there are also mines and unexploded munitions all over cuts on city and this is the next process. —— kherson city. they also have to think of rebuilding the city. it has been under russian occupation for eight months, the

centre of a intense battle, water, electricity have been cut off and they still need to bring in people like policemen, nurses, doctors, to rebuild this city that has been under russian occupation. not to mention the fact that the russian forces are nowjust mention the fact that the russian forces are now just across the river, on the eastern bank and there they are putting up their defences and so the fight will continue between the two forces. catherine, we have some _ between the two forces. catherine, we have some pictures _ between the two forces. catherine, we have some pictures showing - between the two forces. catherine, j we have some pictures showing the approach along towards the dam at nearby, there have been reports about that, because we have talked about that, because we have talked about in your report about the bridge over the river and the damage we saw yesterday, the suggestion is that we have potential damage to a damn, how significant is that? what we know about that? this damn, how significant is that? what we know about that?— we know about that? this lies north of kherson city- _ we know about that? this lies north of kherson city. we _ we know about that? this lies north of kherson city. we are _ we know about that? this lies north of kherson city. we are getting - of kherson city. we are getting images from an american satellites,

showing damage to the bridge, earlier there were reports that may be the bridge and the footbridge along the dam could have been destroyed, we don't know the extent of the damage to the dam, but this is a significant piece of infrastructure in southern ukraine, it is three kilometres long, it is supplying water to much of southern ukraine and ukraine under russian occupation. the biggest concern here is if there is significant damage to the dam and it collapses, you could see a deluge of water flooding much of southern ukraine that will have an impact on so many people living in that area, so we are still trying to get more information about this. in the past few weeks we have seen both the ukrainians and the russians accusing each other of plotting to damage this dam. so it has been on in the minds of officials, both here in the minds of officials, both here in kyiv and in moscow, we don't know what has happened to it or who could

have caused the damage. earlier i spoke to the former head of ukraine's national security council, oleksander danylyuk, he told me what gaining kherson means for ukrainians. it's a feeling across ukraine, almost — it's a feeling across ukraine, almost like a national holiday, everyone _ almost like a national holiday, everyone is cheering, congratulating each other, — everyone is cheering, congratulating each other, for me it is even more important — each other, for me it is even more important because my military unit were used — important because my military unit were used to serve before is also there. _ were used to serve before is also there. so— were used to serve before is also there. so i— were used to serve before is also there, so i am receiving messages from _ there, so i am receiving messages from them, — there, so i am receiving messages from them, showing how the population are meeting the army, it is great, _ population are meeting the army, it is great, it— population are meeting the army, it is great, it is— population are meeting the army, it is great, it is great victory. but we understand that war is not over, russia _ we understand that war is not over, russia witi— we understand that war is not over, russia will go into deep defence on the left _ russia will go into deep defence on the left bank and this is like... it will out — the left bank and this is like... it will put them in quite an advantage as a position. so the next months

will be _ as a position. so the next months will be more difficult and we need to understand this and get used to it. i to understand this and get used to it i have _ to understand this and get used to it. i have heard russians had plenty of time _ it. i have heard russians had plenty of time to— it. i have heard russians had plenty of time to retreat from kherson, but i of time to retreat from kherson, but i disagree _ of time to retreat from kherson, but i disagree with a statement that they have done everything perfectly. our army _ they have done everything perfectly. our army managed to capture some helicopters, some armed vehicles, it doesn't _ helicopters, some armed vehicles, it doesn't matter how much time russian army has, _ doesn't matter how much time russian army has, they still... still have this visible — army has, they still... still have this visible week amount, this week motivation — this visible week amount, this week motivation of russian army. they leave _ motivation of russian army. they leave even — motivation of russian army. they leave even on the damaged, very precious — leave even on the damaged, very precious equipment behind. this will be used _ precious equipment behind. this will be used by— precious equipment behind. this will be used by the army and put into use _ be used by the army and put into use. clearly on motivational side, we are _ use. clearly on motivational side, we are prevailing and this is

extremely important for the army and four civilians. can extremely important for the army and four civilians.— four civilians. can good morale on our side four civilians. can good morale on your side overcome _ four civilians. can good morale on your side overcome the _ four civilians. can good morale on your side overcome the obvious . your side overcome the obvious advantage the russians enjoy in terms of their long and well—established military? this terms of their long and well-established military? this is clearl the well-established military? this is clearly the case. _ well-established military? this is clearly the case. i _ well-established military? this is clearly the case. i am _ well-established military? this is clearly the case. i am just - clearly the case. i am just wondering about how russian leadership is communicating this defeat, clear defeat, they can call it a strategic retreat, but don't forget that only a couple of months ago russia annexed kherson territory, they considered it a russian territory and the speaker of putin said yesterday that despite military decisions by military commanders, it is still a russian territory.

the democratic senator for arizona, the former astronaut mark kelly, has beaten his republican rival for his seat in the us congress. his defeat of blake masters means the two parties now have 49 seats each in the senate. there are two races still to call — georgia and nevada — if the democrats win either, they will retain control of the senate. our north america correspondent, david willis, has the details. this is very, very good news for the democrats. they'll be extremely pleased with this result from arizona, given that inflation here is at a a0 year high and joe biden's approval ratings have sunk to a very low level, many people were predicting there will be some sort of rout on the part of the republicans, but it didn't materialise. and the democrats are on course to retain their majority in the upper house or maybe even enhance it. it comes down to two outstanding senate states.

those are nevada and georgia. nevada is said to be neck and neck. georgia, of course, we know, was so close that it's already gone to a runoff. so it may not be until the 6th of december when that runoff takes place that we know the full complexion of the upper house. but this is very good news for the democrats. they also, of course, have been widely predicted to lose a lot of seats in the house of representatives. and it appears that that's not been the case either. i've been speaking to christopher carman from the university of glasgow. i asked him whether the votes in arizona were processed quickly, to quell any doubts over the result. we are already seeing some of those allegations on of the republican side at — allegations on of the republican side at there have been complaints particularly raised by the republican candidate for governor in

arizona. _ republican candidate for governor in arizona, saying they believe that the election officials are slow walking — the election officials are slow walking the council, which isjust not true — walking the council, which isjust not true at — walking the council, which isjust not true at all. the rules in place in arizona — not true at all. the rules in place in arizona and nevada are quite rigorous, — in arizona and nevada are quite rigorous, in terms of account. partiattv— rigorous, in terms of account. partially because that was what the republicans set up quite a few years a-o, republicans set up quite a few years ago. so _ republicans set up quite a few years ago. so it— republicans set up quite a few years ago. so it is— republicans set up quite a few years ago, so it is a rather laborious. particularly— ago, so it is a rather laborious. particularly when we get into the ballots _ particularly when we get into the ballots that were submitted by post and in _ ballots that were submitted by post and in a _ ballots that were submitted by post and in a drop box, the processes by which _ and in a drop box, the processes by which those — and in a drop box, the processes by which those are handled, take some time _ which those are handled, take some time it— which those are handled, take some time it is— which those are handled, take some time. it is going to be into next week_ time. it is going to be into next week probably when we would know the result week probably when we would know the resutt for— week probably when we would know the result for nevada. we should also say alaska — result for nevada. we should also say alaska we still don't know, we won't _ say alaska we still don't know, we won't know— say alaska we still don't know, we won't know alaska until the end of novemher— won't know alaska until the end of november as well, we know that'll go a republican. just november as well, we know that'll go a republican-— a republican. just in terms of the results in arizona _ a republican. just in terms of the results in arizona there _ a republican. just in terms of the results in arizona there was - a republican. just in terms of the results in arizona there was an i results in arizona there was an interesting article in the financial

times talking about young voters, about 400,000 votes which were cast by young people, a significantly higher turnout. a similar point being made about women voters over the last couple of days, a lot of analysts have pointed out how strongly women it turned out to vote. are these two factors significant for the democrats apparent ability to withhold what was supposed to be a republican wave? ., .,, , was supposed to be a republican wave? ., , . . ., wave? though those will be crucial democratic — wave? though those will be crucial democratic groups. _ wave? though those will be crucial democratic groups. with _ wave? though those will be crucial democratic groups. with young - wave? though those will be crucial. democratic groups. with young voters in particular— democratic groups. with young voters in particular we saw one at some of the highest — in particular we saw one at some of the highest turnouts since the 2018 mid-term _ the highest turnouts since the 2018 mid—term elections was of this one tooi

is, so _ out, even more so than millennial is, so it— out, even more so than millennial is, so it is— out, even more so than millennial is, so it is an— out, even more so than millennial is, so it is an important demographic group and as you say women _ demographic group and as you say women. the issues of course that drove _ women. the issues of course that drove that— women. the issues of course that drove that seem to be as far as we can tell— drove that seem to be as far as we can tell from exit polls so far the issue _ can tell from exit polls so far the issue of— can tell from exit polls so far the issue of abortion as abortion rights, — issue of abortion as abortion rights, also the broader idea of democracy being on the ballots. there _ democracy being on the ballots. there has— democracy being on the ballots. there has been some reporting out to say that— there has been some reporting out to say that particularly among youngster voters and women that the concern _ youngster voters and women that the concern was — youngster voters and women that the concern was a not just abortion access, — concern was a not just abortion access, trut— concern was a not just abortion access, but the idea that the rolling — access, but the idea that the rolling back of abortion access might— rolling back of abortion access might also be rolling over into contraception or same—sex marriage and there _ contraception or same—sex marriage and there was concern amongst these groups— and there was concern amongst these groups that _ and there was concern amongst these groups that they needed to get out to vote _ groups that they needed to get out to vote in _ groups that they needed to get out to vote in order to protect some of these _ to vote in order to protect some of these rights. the headlines on bbc news. ukrainians celebrate into the night as russia withdraws thousands of soldiers from the city of kherson after months of occupation. in the us, the democrats have taken a step closer to retaining

control of the senate, as mark kelly is re—elected in arizona. new zealand have beaten england to win the women's rugby world cup in front of a capacity crowd in auckland. more on this when we talk to fans from both sides shortly. the uk government insists the deputy prime minister dominic raab "values civil servants" after claims he was rude to staff. reports suggest staff have been anxious about his return to thejustice department and had been offered the chance to transfer out because of his behaviour. the news once again puts the spotlight on prime minister rishi sunak�*sjudgment after he appointed raab over 2 weeks ago. meanwhile, on reality tv programme "i'm a celeb?", former health secretary matt hancock has reiterated his regret and said he is looking for "forgiveness" for breaking social distancing rules during the coronavirus pandemic.

joining me now is the conservative mp for lichfield, michael fabricant, who is himself no stranger to reality tv. although stranger to reality tv. a different sort of beast you although a different sort of beast you were dealing with? i was asked to no on i you were dealing with? i was asked to go on i am _ you were dealing with? i was asked to go on i am in— you were dealing with? i was asked togoonlamina_ you were dealing with? i was asked to go on i am in a celebrity - you were dealing with? i was asked to go on i am in a celebrity get - you were dealing with? i was asked to go on i am in a celebrity get me| to go on i am in a celebrity get me out of here, but i refused, i had just been the government airing whip, the guy who decided which ministers or backbenchers could take time off and couldn't come i thought it would be a bit unfortunate, if i may gave myself a month or two after go off to hunt down under. i didn't do that. i did do one day which only today and was to raise money for cancer charities, so i don't feel too guilty about that one. just in terms of what _ too guilty about that one. just in terms of what is _ too guilty about that one. just in terms of what is happening - too guilty about that one. just in terms of what is happening with | too guilty about that one. just in - terms of what is happening with matt hancock, in a sense it sends a single, if you have an mp who makes a decision partway through a parliament that actually they're going to disappear for weeks on end and nadine dorries did do it, but

that was in the very early years of the government, she had onlyjust been not been elected as mp and she was kicked out of the party for it, she then got the web back, then went back to a cabinet minister position. matt hancock looks like it's the other way round? i matt hancock looks like it's the other way round?— other way round? i think he is t in: to other way round? i think he is trying to reinvent _ other way round? i think he is trying to reinvent himself. - other way round? i think he is trying to reinvent himself. i. other way round? i think he is i trying to reinvent himself. i said to him he should be as obnoxious as possible and then get voted off after the first week and then he would be forgiven by the government web. seems like he has been quite charming people in lichfield, saying he is quite likeable on the programme. i must confess to you, i am not actually watching the show, i'm seeing bits and pieces of it, little clips i have seen, i am actually going back to back and really ploughing into the crown at the moment, which i suspect is rather more entertaining, though rather more entertaining, though rather more entertaining, though rather more fiction. it’s

rather more fiction. it's interesting _ rather more fiction. it's interesting you - rather more fiction. it's interesting you say - rather more fiction. it's interesting you say that because john major, yourformer interesting you say that because john major, your former leader, interesting you say that because john major, yourformer leader, was pretty unhappy with it, i was talking about one of the actors who said... he was absolutely taking very strong line saying that we are upfront about what we are doing, it is very carefully thought through, your contemporary with some of the event is now being betrayed in it, do you think it is accurate or does it smell to you of over fictionalised asian? the private discussions _ fictionalised asian? the private discussions between _ fictionalised asian? the private discussions between the - fictionalised asian? the private discussions between the royall discussions between the royal families and the royal families and john major must be fiction in the sense that nobody would give that information away. however it does sit within the historical framework of events, but as i say the conversations must be pure fiction, and i know thatjohn major is quite upset about it all, in particular when aspect where prince charles is saying can we not get rid of the

queen, i want to be king. that absolutely did not ever happen. i wish actually, although it is pretty obvious because we are british and we know... as you say it is almost getting into recent history, so we brits know what is fiction and what isn't bow to the crown is incredibly popular in the united states and all around the world, so i do wish they had actually put at the beginning that this is fiction, this is in fact, but based on true events. it would be terrible if some views in these states are confusing it, getting mixed up between the crown and a downton abbey. 0n getting mixed up between the crown and a downton abbey. on a more serious note, you may have seen the stories in the guardian today, suggesting that members of dominic robert's of his having given the option of going to anotherjob if they don't relish the thought of working for him again. this is not good for government is it? it is getting a reputation, we had priti

patel, the findings of the independent ministerial adviser althoughjohnson independent ministerial adviser although johnson didn't independent ministerial adviser althoughjohnson didn't agree with them, that she had bullied, the allegations that led to gavin william's resignation. it is not helpful for the government? dominic rob is demanding _ helpful for the government? dominic rob is demanding in _ helpful for the government? dominic rob is demanding in a _ helpful for the government? dominic rob is demanding in a good - helpful for the government? dominic rob is demanding in a good way - helpful for the government? dominic rob is demanding in a good way that| rob is demanding in a good way that you have ministers who say this is the direction i want my department to go in, please go away and dojust that. i know that dominic's style can be quite businesslike if you like and maybe some people don't like and maybe some people don't like that, but to say that he is a bully i just don't see that like that, but to say that he is a bully ijust don't see that in a dominic rob and there are stories of him plucking out tomatoes of a pret a manger role and chucking it at civil servants, a manger role and chucking it at civilservants, he a manger role and chucking it at civil servants, he denies it totally and it does add a little bit unreasonable to me. i am more worried about all of these leaks

coming from the civil service, you do wonder they have to be professional as well as ministers? we never know with leaks whether they come from civil servants over ministers, because we never seem to get to the bottom it. lemon exactly,. i will let you get back to the box set of the crown. in the uk, ministers are considering increasing how many two—year—olds a staff member in england can supervise at any time. the aim is to reduce costs for parents and give nurseries more flexibility. but the parents of a boy who died after choking on food at his nursery are calling on the government not to increase the number of children that staff are allowed to look after. zoe and lewis steeper�*s petition on the issue will be debated by mps on monday, after it passed 100,000 signatures. with me isjoeli brearley who founded the pregnant

then screwed charity, campaigning for childcare reform, parental leave and flexible working. thank you very much for talking to us this morning, let's start with this idea, what is wrong with the idea of reducing the numbers, allowing a bit more flexibility, after all the industry is struggling to recruit as it is?— to recruit as it is? increasing ratios was — to recruit as it is? increasing ratios was an _ to recruit as it is? increasing ratios was an idea _ to recruit as it is? increasing| ratios was an idea considered to recruit as it is? increasing - ratios was an idea considered by the coalition government in 2013. but it was rejected because the evidence said of that it was a terrible idea —— overwhelmingly. there is no evidence that this will decrease the cost of evidence, but there is plenty of evidence that tighter ratios are beneficial to child attachment, children's personal, social and emotional development. if

we increase ratios we know that it will impact the quality of early years education that our children are provided and at a time when we have reports of a report showing that children need more support, not less, following covid. meanwhile, we have a staffing crisis in the childcare sector, eight in the ten nurseries say they cannot to recruit the staff they need, because the workforce feel undervalued, underpaid and overworked. by increasing ratios you are going to place even more pressure on a workforce in crisis and so we will see even more childcare professionals leave the workforce. as you acknowledged, there is a recruitment crisis, if there is a crisis, if each childcare says it has to have one or two fewer staff, if it could legally set operate without, it would take some pressure of, wouldn't it? 3�*5�*s without, it would take some pressure of. wouldn't it?— of, wouldn't it? 7596 of childcare professionals — of, wouldn't it? 7596 of childcare professionals have _ of, wouldn't it? 7596 of childcare professionals have said - of, wouldn't it? 7596 of childcare professionals have said that - of, wouldn't it? 7596 of childcare | professionals have said that they

will leave their nursery setting if they increase ratios. so therefore we have already got nurseries that are closing their doors because they cannot recruit, they see more of their workforce leave, we will see more nurseries close. no, i don't see it will reduce the pressure on the providers my... and they agree it will increase the pressure on providers. but also, only 18% of providers. but also, only 18% of providers have said they will increase ratios if this goes through and they can increase those ratios. so i think it will have a very little impact as it is, it really is a red herring, it is not going to make any difference to the sector, but for those providers that do increase those ratios it will simply increase those ratios it will simply increase the pressure on at the workforce. increase the pressure on at the workforce-— increase the pressure on at the workforce. ., ,, , ., , . new zealand have won the women's rugby world cup for a sixth time after a dramatic victory over england at auckland's eden park.

the red roses held the lead for much of the game until new zealand scored a late try with nine minutes to go, putting them ahead by three points. let's speak to a couple of people who are celebrating and someone who's commiserating this morning —— steviejackson is captain of the wasps women amateurs team —— she's also an england fan. alsojoining me is new zealand fans deborah etheredge and christine wilson. thank you all very much for being with us, i suppose i should start with us, i suppose i should start with you guys in new zealand, forgive me, you are in london, i was given a funny stare, everyone is in london. quick reaction from both of you to new zealand's performance this morning. you to new zealand's performance this morning-— this morning. outstanding, outstanding, _ this morning. outstanding, outstanding, we _ this morning. outstanding, outstanding, we are - this morning. outstanding, outstanding, we are so - this morning. outstanding, l outstanding, we are so proud this morning. outstanding, - outstanding, we are so proud of this morning. outstanding, _ outstanding, we are so proud of them as a team, we are so proud to be new zealanders in london, it is great for women's rugby. just amazing. amazing- -- _ for women's rugby. just amazing. amazing... you _ for women's rugby. just amazing. amazing... you can't _ for women's rugby. just amazing. amazing... you can't put - for women's rugby. just amazing. amazing... you can't put words i for women's rugby. just amazing. | amazing... you can't put words in two amounts, because we are here,

but we _ two amounts, because we are here, but we know— two amounts, because we are here, but we know that we had lots of support, — but we know that we had lots of support, notjust here but in new zealand _ support, notjust here but in new zealand obviously, just amazing for women's _ zealand obviously, just amazing for women's sport. you zealand obviously, 'ust amazing for women-s sport.— zealand obviously, 'ust amazing for women's sport. you are watching bbc news, to women's sport. you are watching bbc news. to our— women's sport. you are watching bbc news, to our views _ women's sport. you are watching bbc news, to our views internationally, i news, to our views internationally, thanks to being with us. stevie, it looks at one point as if this might be the match where england made the breakthrough and they might end new zealand's impressive run of victories in the world cup. yes, and it was a devastating _ victories in the world cup. yes, and it was a devastating end _ victories in the world cup. yes, and it was a devastating end for- victories in the world cup. yes, and | it was a devastating end for england today, _ it was a devastating end for england today, they— it was a devastating end for england today. they have _ it was a devastating end for england today, they have finally... _ it was a devastating end for england today, they have finally... their- today, they have finally... their world _ today, they have finally... their world record _ today, they have finally... their world record run _ today, they have finally... their world record run victory - today, they have finally... their world record run victory record. today, they have finally... their. world record run victory record has ended _ world record run victory record has ended the — world record run victory record has ended. the most _ world record run victory record has ended. the most of— world record run victory record has ended. the most of much - world record run victory record has ended. the most of much that i world record run victory record has ended. the most of much that you world record run victory record has. ended. the most of much that you are i’ilht ended. the most of much that you are right under— ended. the most of much that you are right under the — ended. the most of much that you are right under the last _ ended. the most of much that you are right under the last minute, _ ended. the most of much that you are right under the last minute, what i ended. the most of much that you are right under the last minute, what a i right under the last minute, what a match, _ right under the last minute, what a match, we — right under the last minute, what a match, we thought _ right under the last minute, what a match, we thought they— right under the last minute, what a match, we thought they would i right under the last minute, what a i match, we thought they would manage it for a _ match, we thought they would manage it fora minute— match, we thought they would manage it for a minute there _ match, we thought they would manage it for a minute there and _ match, we thought they would manage it for a minute there and i'm _ it for a minute there and i'm devastated _ it for a minute there and i'm devastated for— it for a minute there and i'm devastated for them - it for a minute there and i'm devastated for them for- it for a minute there and i'm devastated for them for all i it for a minute there and i'm i devastated for them for all the it for a minute there and i'm - devastated for them for all the hard way the _ devastated for them for all the hard way the average _ devastated for them for all the hard way the average put _ devastated for them for all the hard way the average put in, _ devastated for them for all the hard way the average put in, but - devastated for them for all the hard way the average put in, but it- devastated for them for all the hard way the average put in, but it has. way the average put in, but it has been _ way the average put in, but it has been a _ way the average put in, but it has been a fantastic _ way the average put in, but it has been a fantastic few— way the average put in, but it has been a fantastic few weeks - way the average put in, but it has been a fantastic few weeks of- way the average put in, but it has. been a fantastic few weeks of rugby, we have _ been a fantastic few weeks of rugby, we have got— been a fantastic few weeks of rugby, we have got to — been a fantastic few weeks of rugby, we have got to see _ been a fantastic few weeks of rugby, we have got to see out _ been a fantastic few weeks of rugby, we have got to see out there - been a fantastic few weeks of rugby, we have got to see out there on i been a fantastic few weeks of rugby, we have got to see out there on the i we have got to see out there on the international— we have got to see out there on the international stage. _ we have got to see out there on the international stage. iflatmat— we have got to see out there on the international stage.—

international stage. what did you make of the _ international stage. what did you make of the new _ international stage. what did you make of the new zealand - international stage. what did you i make of the new zealand performance? as a fan of england? thea;r make of the new zealand performance? as a fan of england?— as a fan of england? they were outstanding- — as a fan of england? they were outstanding. and _ as a fan of england? they were outstanding. and for _ as a fan of england? they were outstanding. and for me i as a fan of england? they were outstanding. and for me it i as a fan of england? they were outstanding. and for me itjust| outstanding. and for me itjust hrings— outstanding. and for me itjust hrings me _ outstanding. and for me itjust brings me such— outstanding. and for me itjust brings me suchjoy_ outstanding. and for me itjust brings me such joy to - outstanding. and for me itjust brings me suchjoy to see i outstanding. and for me itjust- brings me suchjoy to see england -et brings me suchjoy to see england get to— brings me suchjoy to see england get to compete _ brings me suchjoy to see england get to compete with _ brings me suchjoy to see england get to compete with a _ brings me suchjoy to see england get to compete with a team - brings me suchjoy to see england get to compete with a team who i brings me suchjoy to see england . get to compete with a team who are so ferocious, — get to compete with a team who are so ferocious, have _ get to compete with a team who are so ferocious, have been _ get to compete with a team who are so ferocious, have been so - get to compete with a team who are so ferocious, have been so inspiringj so ferocious, have been so inspiring and it— so ferocious, have been so inspiring and it was— so ferocious, have been so inspiring and it was such _ so ferocious, have been so inspiring and it was such a _ so ferocious, have been so inspiring and it was such a well _ so ferocious, have been so inspiring and it was such a well matched i so ferocious, have been so inspiringl and it was such a well matched game and it was such a well matched game and in _ and it was such a well matched game and in the _ and it was such a well matched game and in the end— and it was such a well matched game and in the end new— and it was such a well matched game and in the end new zealand - and it was such a well matched game and in the end new zealand took- and it was such a well matched game and in the end new zealand took the| and in the end new zealand took the points _ and in the end new zealand took the oints. , ,., . and in the end new zealand took the .oints. , ., ., and in the end new zealand took the oints. , ., ., , points. deborah and christine, -auttin points. deborah and christine, putting the — points. deborah and christine, putting the shoe _ points. deborah and christine, putting the shoe on _ points. deborah and christine, putting the shoe on the i points. deborah and christine, putting the shoe on the other| points. deborah and christine, i putting the shoe on the other foot now as it were, what did you make of england? you can be magnanimous now because you have one? we england? you can be magnanimous now because you have one?— because you have one? we needed to because you have one? we needed to be honest, because you have one? we needed to be honest. they _ because you have one? we needed to be honest, they were _ because you have one? we needed to be honest, they were just _ because you have one? we needed to be honest, they were just amazing, . be honest, they were just amazing, all credit to them, i am a rugby fan and| all credit to them, i am a rugby fan and i will call a good team a good team and they were just... i and i will call a good team a good team and they werejust... i am blessed that there were only 14 angus players in the field, because i think if there had been 15 players

the result may well have been different and england would be waiting winners flags right now —— 14 england players. they were just amazing, england have been amazing all the way through this tournament and they rightly held the team to beat. i'mjust and they rightly held the team to beat. i'm just grateful that new zealand were able to come in and scrape out a win. showcase women's rugby, and it wasn'tjust new zealand, england, god, they were just amazing. it’s zealand, england, god, they were just amazing-— just amazing. it's a high standard that has been _ just amazing. it's a high standard that has been set _ just amazing. it's a high standardj that has been set internationally. stevie, i wonder one thing that we will hear a bit more about deborah and christie in a moment, one issue for you as captain of women's amateurs is recruitment, and presumably that is true for the national side as well? that if the

girls are not there, then the women will not be there at the club level and then the women cannot be there at the national team level, because there is not enough to draw on? is that still an issue?— that still an issue? yes, and it is all about grassroots _ that still an issue? yes, and it is all about grassroots rugby, i that still an issue? yes, and it is all about grassroots rugby, girls| all about grassroots rugby, girls are not— all about grassroots rugby, girls are not often— all about grassroots rugby, girls are not often encouraged - all about grassroots rugby, girls are not often encouraged to i all about grassroots rugby, girls| are not often encouraged to play rughv _ are not often encouraged to play rugby and — are not often encouraged to play rugby and we _ are not often encouraged to play rugby and we are _ are not often encouraged to play rugby and we are starting - are not often encouraged to play rugby and we are starting to i are not often encouraged to play rugby and we are starting to see| rugby and we are starting to see that change _ rugby and we are starting to see that change which _ rugby and we are starting to see that change which is _ rugby and we are starting to see that change which is fantastic. l rugby and we are starting to see i that change which is fantastic. when i that change which is fantastic. when i was _ that change which is fantastic. when i was at _ that change which is fantastic. when i was at school — that change which is fantastic. when i was at school rugby _ that change which is fantastic. when i was at school rugby wasn't - i was at school rugby wasn't offered, _ i was at school rugby wasn't offered, i_ i was at school rugby wasn't offered, i didn't— i was at school rugby wasn't offered, i didn't start - i was at school rugby wasn'tl offered, i didn't start playing untit— offered, i didn't start playing until i— offered, i didn't start playing until i was— offered, i didn't start playing until i was an _ offered, i didn't start playing until i was an adult - offered, i didn't start playing until i was an adult and i offered, i didn't start playingj until i was an adult and clubs offered, i didn't start playing i until i was an adult and clubs like this, _ until i was an adult and clubs like this, here — until i was an adult and clubs like this, here in— until i was an adult and clubs like this, here in london, _ until i was an adult and clubs like this, here in london, that- until i was an adult and clubs like this, here in london, that is- until i was an adult and clubs like. this, here in london, that is where it att— this, here in london, that is where it all begins, — this, herein london, that is where it all begins, we_ this, here in london, that is where it all begins, we have _ this, here in london, that is where it all begins, we have a _ this, here in london, that is where it all begins, we have a girl's - it all begins, we have a girl's section— it all begins, we have a girl's section here _ it all begins, we have a girl's section here and _ it all begins, we have a girl's section here and we - it all begins, we have a girl's section here and we have i it all begins, we have a girl's l section here and we have been it all begins, we have a girl's i section here and we have been by showcasing — section here and we have been by showcasing the _ section here and we have been by showcasing the world _ section here and we have been by showcasing the world cup - section here and we have been by showcasing the world cup and i section here and we have been by- showcasing the world cup and women's ru-by showcasing the world cup and women's rughv getting _ showcasing the world cup and women's rughv getting a — showcasing the world cup and women's rughv getting a bigger— showcasing the world cup and women's rugby getting a bigger and _ showcasing the world cup and women's rugby getting a bigger and bigger- rugby getting a bigger and bigger platform. — rugby getting a bigger and bigger platform. the _ rugby getting a bigger and bigger platform, the six— rugby getting a bigger and bigger platform, the six nations - rugby getting a bigger and bigger platform, the six nations being l platform, the six nations being played — platform, the six nations being played at — platform, the six nations being played at twickenham - platform, the six nations being played at twickenham stadium| platform, the six nations being i played at twickenham stadium next year for _ played at twickenham stadium next year for the — played at twickenham stadium next year for the women's _ played at twickenham stadium next year for the women's side, - played at twickenham stadium next year for the women's side, that- played at twickenham stadium next year for the women's side, that wel year for the women's side, that we will see _ year for the women's side, that we will see the — year for the women's side, that we will see the difference _ year for the women's side, that we will see the difference here - year for the women's side, that we will see the difference here on i will see the difference here on wednesday— will see the difference here on wednesday nights— will see the difference here on wednesday nights at - will see the difference here on wednesday nights at training i will see the difference here on l wednesday nights at training for will see the difference here on i wednesday nights at training for a women _ wednesday nights at training for a women was — wednesday nights at training for a women was my— wednesday nights at training for a women was my session _ wednesday nights at training for a women was my session as - wednesday nights at training for a women was my session as well, i women was my session as well, because — women was my session as well, because it — women was my session as well, because it is _ women was my session as well, because it isjust_ women was my session as well, because it is just the _ women was my session as well, because it isjust the best - women was my session as well, because it is just the best fun i women was my session as well, i because it is just the best fun you can have — because it is just the best fun you can have and _ because it is just the best fun you can have and you _ because it is just the best fun you can have and you won't _ because it is just the best fun you can have and you won't look- because it is just the best fun you can have and you won't look back| can have and you won't look back once _ can have and you won't look back once you — can have and you won't look back once you join _ can have and you won't look back once you join a _ can have and you won't look back once you join a rugby _ can have and you won't look back once you join a rugby team. i can have and you won't look back once you join a rugby team. once you 'oin a rugby team. deborah and once you join a rugby team. deborah and christine. _ once you join a rugby team. deborah and christine, what _ once you join a rugby team. deborah and christine, what do _ once you join a rugby team. deborah and christine, what do you _ once you join a rugby team. deborah and christine, what do you think - and christine, what do you think that england rugby could learn from

the new zealand experience, in terms of that path from the girls playing in schools or in local teams, in their own time to women topping the global stage as rugby players? it global stage as rugby players? it has to be coming in from a grassroot level _ has to be coming in from a grassroot level our_ has to be coming in from a grassroot level. our daughterwho has to be coming in from a grassroot level. our daughter who is in high school, _ level. our daughter who is in high school, she — level. our daughter who is in high school, she really didn't come into it until_ school, she really didn't come into it until i _ school, she really didn't come into it until i would say lower level of hi-h it until i would say lower level of high school, she is 16 now. but she didn1— high school, she is 16 now. but she didn't have — high school, she is 16 now. but she didn't have any of it at primary school — didn't have any of it at primary school level.— didn't have any of it at primary schoollevel. . , , , ,, school level. that surprises people sto - school level. that surprises people sto sin school level. that surprises people step sign that _ school level. that surprises people stop sign that there _ school level. that surprises people stop sign that there just _ school level. that surprises people stop sign that there just wasn't - stop sign that there just wasn't anyone going into the school is promoting its, actively promoting it. figs promoting its, actively promoting it. ~ , , promoting its, actively promoting it. a , . promoting its, actively promoting it. ~ , , . . promoting its, actively promoting it. as kiwis we are born with a ball in our hands. _ it. as kiwis we are born with a ball in our hands, so _ it. as kiwis we are born with a ball in our hands, so her— it. as kiwis we are born with a ball in our hands, so her father- it. as kiwis we are born with a ball in our hands, so her father is - it. as kiwis we are born with a ball in our hands, so her father is a - in our hands, so her father is a player— in our hands, so her father is a playerand_ in our hands, so her father is a player and a _ in our hands, so her father is a player and a coach as well and... so she player and a coach as well and... she didn't have player and a coach as well and... 6r she didn't have a chance really with the three of you?—