hello, in a few days the chancellor will tell us what he'll tax and spend. his choices that will affect us all. he's here to explain this morning. first was the emergency. what's next for the economy, with recession on the way? it's not going to be easy. there are going to be some very difficult choices. i've used the word eye watering before, and that's the truth. we can't carry on like this. with growth lower than our competitors. the government can ill afford more political embarrassments. sir gavin williamson has posted a letter. he is resigning from government. rather than take on the bullies, he lines up alongside them and thanks them for their loyalty. money talks, yet money's tight. but being trusted on the economy

is top of this pair's list. we have one big question this morning — what will the autumn statement bring? the chancellor, jeremy hunt, is here and i'll be talking to him in the next few minutes. and i'll be speaking to the shadow chancellor, rachel reeves, live from leeds. and on this remembrance sunday i'll be joined by the chief of the defence staff, sir tony radakin. music: the last post. and don't miss this — we'll mark this notable day, looking ahead to the remembrance service on bbc one with something truly beautiful. and with me at the desk to help us out — the editor of the financial times, roula khalaf. the country's economic referee, pauljohnson, head of the insitute for fiscal studies. and at this big moment for the country, the historian and tv presenter simon

schama is here too. hello and good morning. over the next hour and 15 minutes we've got loads to discuss including dinner with elon musk, what we can learn from the american midterm elections and what is really happening with the war in ukraine. at 10:15am we're going to hand to the cenotaph for live coverage of this morning's remembrance service. but first, you don't need me to tell you how choppy things are when it comes to the economy, and in a few days the government will announce how they hope to make the sums add up. we've carefully chosen a panel of experts to help guide us through what will happen this week

and we have your questions for the chancellor and the shadow chancellor too. pauljohnson, how would you describe the task for the chancellor this week? you are an independent number cruncher and have studied this for a long time. the cruncher and have studied this for a lona time. ., . ., .,, long time. the chancellor has some really tough — long time. the chancellor has some really tough choices. _ long time. the chancellor has some really tough choices. the _ long time. the chancellor has some really tough choices. the bank - long time. the chancellor has some really tough choices. the bank of i really tough choices. the bank of england told us we are in recession and likely to stay in recession for some time to come. in those circumstances you usually want to do something fairly loose fiscally, it may be cut taxes or increase spending to support the economy. but we also have the highest inflation for more than a0 years. the bank of england has had to raise interest rates, partly because of i can say i think the disastrous mini budget of a couple of months ago. and growth is very low, inflation is very high, so we will be looking at very high levels of borrowing and debt over the next several years.— levels of borrowing and debt over the next several years. pretty ugly icture. the next several years. pretty ugly picture- roula _ the next several years. pretty ugly picture. roula khalaf, _ the next several years. pretty ugly picture. roula khalaf, you - the next several years. pretty ugly picture. roula khalaf, you look-

the next several years. pretty ugly picture. roula khalaf, you look at| picture. roula khalaf, you look at the rest of the world as well as the uk. we are not the only country having a hard time so how does the uk compare?— having a hard time so how does the uk comare? ~ ., , ., ,, uk compare? what is happening in the uk compare? what is happening in the uk is bein: uk compare? what is happening in the uk is being watched _ uk compare? what is happening in the uk is being watched all— uk compare? what is happening in the uk is being watched all over _ uk compare? what is happening in the uk is being watched all over the - uk is being watched all over the world _ uk is being watched all over the world. unlike many autumn statements, what the chancellor has to do is_ statements, what the chancellor has to do is not — statements, what the chancellor has to do is not only convince the uk but also — to do is not only convince the uk but also convince his allies and the world _ but also convince his allies and the world that — but also convince his allies and the world that the uk is now fiscally responsible. what happened with the mini budget, the most important thing _ mini budget, the most important thing i_ mini budget, the most important thing i think happened with the mini budget— thing i think happened with the mini budget was that the uk lost credibility and there was concern that the — credibility and there was concern that the turmoil in the markets could _ that the turmoil in the markets could spill over. this is why we had the could spillover. this is why we had the imf_ could spill over. this is why we had the imf intervention for example. i think— the imf intervention for example. i think this _ the imf intervention for example. i think this is — the imf intervention for example. i think this is an unusually important budget— think this is an unusually important budget for— think this is an unusually important budget for the world and not just for the _ budget for the world and not just for the uk. budget for the world and not 'ust for the uk.— budget for the world and not 'ust fer the uk.— for the uk. unusualtime of pressure- — for the uk. unusualtime of pressure. looking - for the uk. unusualtime of pressure. looking at - for the uk. unusualtime of pressure. looking at the i for the uk. unusual time of. pressure. looking at the front for the uk. unusual time of- pressure. looking at the front pages this morning, they are not all going on the economy. the sunday mirror can't help themselves put put matt

hancock in the jungle on the front page again. the observer and the sunday express taking a different view of what should happen in terms of the economy. simon schama, from your perspective, does it feel like the country is at a junction and as the country is at a junction and as the others have suggested this is a uniquely difficult moment? it uniquely difficult moment? it certainly has to be a uniquely difficult — certainly has to be a uniquely difficult moment— certainly has to be a uniquely difficult moment because - certainly has to be a uniquely- difficult moment because actually we are the _ difficult moment because actually we are the only— difficult moment because actually we are the only country _ difficult moment because actually we are the only country that _ difficult moment because actually we are the only country that has - difficult moment because actually we are the only country that has not - are the only country that has not -ot are the only country that has not got the — are the only country that has not got the hack— are the only country that has not got the back so— are the only country that has not got the back so far _ are the only country that has not got the back so far to _ are the only country that has not got the back so far to the - are the only country that has not got the back so far to the kind i are the only country that has notj got the back so far to the kind of ore-pandemic— got the back so far to the kind of pre—pandemic level— got the back so far to the kind of pre—pandemic level of— got the back so far to the kind of pre—pandemic level of growth. . got the back so far to the kind of pre—pandemic level of growth. ii pre—pandemic level of growth. i would _ pre—pandemic level of growth. i would also _ pre—pandemic level of growth. i would also say, _ pre—pandemic level of growth. i would also say, to _ pre—pandemic level of growth. i would also say, to introduce - pre—pandemic level of growth. i would also say, to introduce a l would also say, to introduce a terrible — would also say, to introduce a terrible profanity _ would also say, to introduce a terrible profanity these - would also say, to introduce a terrible profanity these days, i would also say, to introduce a i terrible profanity these days, the would also say, to introduce a - terrible profanity these days, the b word, _ terrible profanity these days, the b word, brexit. — terrible profanity these days, the b word, brexit, and _ terrible profanity these days, the b word, brexit, and we _ terrible profanity these days, the b word, brexit, and we are _ terrible profanity these days, the b word, brexit, and we are not- terrible profanity these days, the b l word, brexit, and we are not allowed to say— word, brexit, and we are not allowed to say anything — word, brexit, and we are not allowed to say anything about _ word, brexit, and we are not allowed to say anything about it _ word, brexit, and we are not allowed to say anything about it because - to say anything about it because people _ to say anything about it because people say— to say anything about it because people say we _ to say anything about it because people say we mustn't - to say anything about it because people say we mustn't litigate . to say anything about it because people say we mustn't litigate it all over— people say we mustn't litigate it all over again _ people say we mustn't litigate it all over again but _ people say we mustn't litigate it all over again but has _ people say we mustn't litigate it all over again but has brexit- people say we mustn't litigate it l all over again but has brexit made these _ all over again but has brexit made these decisions _ all over again but has brexit made these decisions more _ all over again but has brexit made these decisions more difficult? . these decisions more difficult? saying — these decisions more difficult? saving to — these decisions more difficult? saying to your— these decisions more difficult? saying to your point, _ these decisions more difficult? saying to your point, we - these decisions more difficult? saying to your point, we are i these decisions more difficult? saying to your point, we are atj these decisions more difficult? i saying to your point, we are at a juncture — saying to your point, we are at a juncture hut— saying to your point, we are at a juncture but it _ saying to your point, we are at a juncture but it is _ saying to your point, we are at a juncture but it is one _ saying to your point, we are at a juncture but it is one we - saying to your point, we are at a juncture but it is one we have i saying to your point, we are at a . juncture but it is one we have seen again— juncture but it is one we have seen again and — juncture but it is one we have seen again and it — juncture but it is one we have seen again and it is _ juncture but it is one we have seen again and it is a _ juncture but it is one we have seen again and it is a profound - again and it is a profound historical— again and it is a profound historical one. _ again and it is a profound historical one. the - again and it is a profound - historical one. the relationship between — historical one. the relationship between social— historical one. the relationship between social responsibility . historical one. the relationship. between social responsibility and the responsibility—

between social responsibility and the responsibility to _ between social responsibility and the responsibility to the - between social responsibility and | the responsibility to the markets. category— the responsibility to the markets. category one _ the responsibility to the markets. category one is _ the responsibility to the markets. category one is all— the responsibility to the markets. category one is all about - the responsibility to the markets. category one is all about where l category one is all about where spending — category one is all about where spending cuts _ category one is all about where spending cuts will— category one is all about where spending cuts will hurt - category one is all about where spending cuts will hurt the - category one is all about where i spending cuts will hurt the most. this is— spending cuts will hurt the most. this is an — spending cuts will hurt the most. this is an incredibly— spending cuts will hurt the most. this is an incredibly tricky- spending cuts will hurt the most. this is an incredibly tricky issue. i this is an incredibly tricky issue. if this is an incredibly tricky issue. if you _ this is an incredibly tricky issue. if you do — this is an incredibly tricky issue. if you do the _ this is an incredibly tricky issue. if you do the bidding _ this is an incredibly tricky issue. if you do the bidding of- this is an incredibly tricky issue. if you do the bidding of the - this is an incredibly tricky issue. - if you do the bidding of the markets as they— if you do the bidding of the markets as they absolutely _ if you do the bidding of the markets as they absolutely want _ if you do the bidding of the markets as they absolutely want and - if you do the bidding of the markets as they absolutely want and direct l as they absolutely want and direct spending — as they absolutely want and direct spending cuts _ as they absolutely want and direct spending cuts so _ as they absolutely want and direct spending cuts so savagely, - as they absolutely want and direct spending cuts so savagely, you i as they absolutely want and directl spending cuts so savagely, you can generate _ spending cuts so savagely, you can generate another— spending cuts so savagely, you can generate another wave _ spending cuts so savagely, you can generate another wave of - spending cuts so savagely, you can generate another wave of social. spending cuts so savagely, you can. generate another wave of social pain and political— generate another wave of social pain and political anger, _ generate another wave of social pain and political anger, but— generate another wave of social pain and political anger, but you're - generate another wave of social pain and political anger, but you're not i and political anger, but you're not quite _ and political anger, but you're not quite prepared _ and political anger, but you're not quite prepared. we _ and political anger, but you're not quite prepared-— quite prepared. we will get into that with the _ quite prepared. we will get into that with the chancellor, - quite prepared. we will get into| that with the chancellor, jeremy that with the chancellor, jeremy hunt has had an unusual start in the job. he was rushed in by liz truss after she sacked kwasi kwarteng when the markets had a violent reaction to their plans. mr speaker, we are at the beginning of a new era, and as we contemplate... jeering. mr hunt immediately ditched almost every single measure on that tax cutting budget. warning all of us, on this programme, that things were looking pretty grim. he was brought in to be mr sensible

after a couple of wild weeks in westminster, so no surprise when rishi sunak moved into number 10 he kept the man next door. and since then he's had his head down, squirrelled away in number 11 downing street putting together what he has descrbed as "eye wateringly difficult" decisions. thank you for coming in this morning. you have been explicit we face difficult decisions, often code for the fact everyone will have to suffer somehow. the fact everyone will have to suffersomehow. is the fact everyone will have to suffer somehow. is everybody going to pay more tax?— to pay more tax? good morning, laura. to pay more tax? good morning, laura- we _ to pay more tax? good morning, laura- we are — to pay more tax? good morning, laura. we are going _ to pay more tax? good morning, laura. we are going to _ to pay more tax? good morning, laura. we are going to see - to pay more tax? good morning, - laura. we are going to see everyone paying more tax. we will see spending cuts. but i think it's very important to say that we are a resilient country. i think as a simon schama would say, we have faced bigger challenges in our history in the past, and we are also a compassionate country. so we will introduce a plan that will see us

through the very choppy waters we are in economically. but we will make sure that we protect the most vulnerable and in particular deal with the single biggest worry for people on low incomes, which is the rising cost of their weekly shop and rising cost of their weekly shop and rising energy prices. economically that makes sense too because as paul johnson was saying, inflation is much higher than it should be and thatis much higher than it should be and that is destabilising people's family finances as well as being very bad for business and the economy. very bad for business and the economy-— very bad for business and the econom . , . , ., ., , economy. explicitly at the outset theole economy. explicitly at the outset peeple will _ economy. explicitly at the outset people will lose _ economy. explicitly at the outset people will lose some _ economy. explicitly at the outset people will lose some of- economy. explicitly at the outset people will lose some of their i people will lose some of their public services and everyone you say will pay more tax, so everyone will notice the consequences from the decisions you will announce on thursday. i decisions you will announce on thursday-_ decisions you will announce on thursda . ~ , ., . thursday. i think people will notice because these _ thursday. i think people will notice because these are _ thursday. i think people will notice because these are difficult - because these are difficult decisions, but they will also see there is a plan to get through this. and if we do this wisely we can make this recession that we may be in a short and shallow as possible. that's certainly what i will try to

do as chancellor. i want people to understand that although these are difficult decisions, we will be doing it in a way that means we get through to the other side. but as a country i think we know that the way you deal with problems is by facing into them, not by pretending they are not there and i want to give people the confidence we are doing that. has people the confidence we are doing that. �* , ., people the confidence we are doing that. a. , people the confidence we are doing that. �* , ., , ., ., people the confidence we are doing that. , ., ., , that. as a country we go into this in a worse _ that. as a country we go into this in a worse position _ that. as a country we go into this in a worse position than - that. as a country we go into this in a worse position than most - that. as a country we go into this i in a worse position than most other major economies. is that because the conservatives have mismanaged the economy for the last 12 years? there were some — economy for the last 12 years? there were some mistakes _ economy for the last 12 years? there were some mistakes with _ economy for the last 12 years? there were some mistakes with a - economy for the last 12 years? there were some mistakes with a mini - were some mistakes with a mini budget and i corrected those within about three days of becoming chancellor.— about three days of becoming chancellor. , , ., ., ., chancellor. this is about more than the last decade. _ chancellor. this is about more than the last decade. all— chancellor. this is about more than the last decade. all the _ chancellor. this is about more than the last decade. all the problems l the last decade. all the problems did not come about under aa days of liz truss and kwasi kwarteng. looking at the last decade, we had the third highest growth in the g7, the third highest growth in the g7, the biggest global economies, and unemployment is at a a0 year low. the headwinds we face are being faced by germany for example, which

is predicting a biggerfall in gdp as a result of the global energy crisis than we are here. you are seeing higher inflation in the eurozone, countries like germany and italy. in america you are seeing taxes go up by $800 billion. these are global headwinds and i am very confident that the british economy has some very good fundamentals that will see us through this.— will see us through this. starting at this moment _ will see us through this. starting at this moment we _ will see us through this. starting at this moment we are _ will see us through this. starting at this moment we are in - will see us through this. starting at this moment we are in a - will see us through this. starting | at this moment we are in a worse position than those other economies you mention. to show viewers a graph, showing every other major economy that has got back to the size it was before the pandemic. we have not, there we are, the uk is lagging furthest behind. every major economy has had to deal with the war in ukraine and energy prices. every country has had to deal with the demands of the pandemic so why are we lagging behind? isn't that down to the last 12 years under your watch? ., , ., , ., ,, ., watch? that is one snapshot. if i may say. — watch? that is one snapshot. if i may say. this — watch? that is one snapshot. if i may say, this year _ watch? that is one snapshot. if i

may say, this year we _ watch? that is one snapshot. if i may say, this year we have - watch? that is one snapshot. if i may say, this year we have the l may say, this year we have the fastest growth in the g7 of all the major countries on that list so we are catching up fast in that respect. do we have issues as a result of the pandemic? yes, we seem to have about 600,000 more people who have left the labour force and we need to understand why that is because it is creating constraints for businesses who find they can't employ the people they need to. that's absolutely something i will talk about on thursday. what i want people to see is that we have a plan thatis people to see is that we have a plan that is notjust to deal with the short—term pressures of the very high energy prices that are causing such worries to families up and down the country, but also a plan to grow the country, but also a plan to grow the economy and make us one of the most prosperous countries in europe, which is what we need if we are going to fund the nhs and public services. we will see both parts of that, a plan that deals with the short term and gets us in good shape for the future. iestate short term and gets us in good shape for the future.— for the future. we will be eager to hear that on _ for the future. we will be eager to hear that on thursday. _ for the future. we will be eager to hear that on thursday. we - for the future. we will be eager to hear that on thursday. we have i for the future. we will be eager to - hear that on thursday. we have asked

viewers for questions and let's take the first one. she goes on to say that brexit is the thing that can't be named. what do you say?— do you say? brexit is a big change that the country _ do you say? brexit is a big change that the country voted _ do you say? brexit is a big change that the country voted for. - do you say? brexit is a big change. that the country voted for. whether it is a success or not is up to us, whether we embrace the opportunities of a different type of economy to one we would have been in as part of the european single market. i believe we can make a tremendous success of it but it will not happen automatically. what you will hear on thursday are some of the ways i think we can make a success of it. on that point you are suggesting that it hasn't happened yet. do you deny that brexit has meant the economy has grown less slowly than it otherwise might have done questionable i don't accept the premise that brexit will make us poorer. at this stage we are the

only major economy that has made it harderfor only major economy that has made it harder for businesses to trade with our nearest trading partner. barriers were introduced. i'm not saying it was the right or the wrong thing, it was what the people decide it but as an economy we made it harderfor it but as an economy we made it harder for businesses to trade and do business. do you deny it had a cost? i do business. do you deny it had a cost? ., �* , ., . , cost? i don't deny there are costs to decision _ cost? i don't deny there are costs to decision like _ cost? i don't deny there are costs to decision like brexit _ cost? i don't deny there are costs to decision like brexit but - cost? i don't deny there are costs to decision like brexit but there l to decision like brexit but there are opportunities and you have to see it in the round. white mccaffrey made the most of those opportunities yet? we within months of formally leaving the eu we had a once in a century pandemic, meaning the process of outlining the opportunities has taken longer but i think we need to do that now. we decided to do it and we need to make it a success. d0 decided to do it and we need to make it a success-— it a success. do think it's part of the reason _ it a success. do think it's part of the reason why _ it a success. do think it's part of the reason why we _ it a success. do think it's part of the reason why we are - it a success. do think it's part of the reason why we are behind i it a success. do think it's part of. the reason why we are behind other economies? i the reason why we are behind other economies?— economies? i don't think it is the bit test economies? i don't think it is the biggest issue- — economies? i don't think it is the biggest issue. it _ economies? i don't think it is the biggest issue. it is _ economies? i don't think it is the biggest issue. it is much - economies? i don't think it is the biggest issue. it is much more i economies? i don't think it is the biggest issue. it is much more to economies? i don't think it is the i biggest issue. it is much more to do with otherfactors in biggest issue. it is much more to do with other factors in the labour market that i want to think about. what i want to promise to everyone is that the decisions we take, we

will be honest about the problems and we will be fair in the approach we take because we are notjust a compassionate country, but this is a compassionate country, but this is a compassionate conservative government and we need to demonstrate that in a way we approach these decisions. let’s demonstrate that in a way we approach these decisions. let's talk about that overall _ approach these decisions. let's talk about that overall approach, - approach these decisions. let's talk about that overall approach, the - about that overall approach, the economy is in a bad place and you keep saying there are difficult decisions. we can listen to the head of a primary school now. what practical strategies would you advise head teachers to use to balance their budgets in light of non—funded pay rises and huge increases in gas and electricity prices? and please could i respectfully ask you not to begin with the phrase, "we've put more money into schools than ever before." thank you. i think andrea should be interviewing politicians. without saying you have already put more money on than before, what do you say to her?— say to her? with the first thing i would want _ say to her? with the first thing i would want to _ say to her? with the first thing i would want to say _ say to her? with the first thing i would want to say to _ say to her? with the first thing i would want to say to andrea - say to her? with the first thing i would want to say to andrea is i say to her? with the first thing i i would want to say to andrea is that the heads in our schools have done an incrediblejob in the the heads in our schools have done an incredible job in the time the heads in our schools have done an incrediblejob in the time my party has been in power. we have seen a dramatic rise in school

standards and i think our state schools are often as good as or even better than independent schools. that isn't her question. she wants to know as a head teacher with inflation tearing into her budget, will you give her extra money and were government departments get extra money this year, now, to deal with the cost of inflation, or will you stick with what they were given in 2021, as people expect? shes you stick with what they were given in 2021, as people expect?- in 2021, as people expect? as you know, in 2021, as people expect? as you know. and — in 2021, as people expect? as you know. and i— in 2021, as people expect? as you know, and i think _ in 2021, as people expect? as you know, and i think andrea - in 2021, as people expect? as you know, and i think andrea knows, l in 2021, as people expect? as you know, and i think andrea knows, i will announce the decisions on those on thursday. what i want to say to andrea is that the progress we have made in state education has been extraordinary and we want to make sure that nothing happens now that undermines that progress because strong public services, including strong public services, including strong education systems, schools and further education, are actually important to the future of the economy. d0 important to the future of the economy-— important to the future of the econom . i. ., . ~ ., ., economy. do you acknowledge that if schools and other _ economy. do you acknowledge that if schools and other parts _ economy. do you acknowledge that if schools and other parts of _ economy. do you acknowledge that if schools and other parts of public - schools and other parts of public services do not get extra cash to deal with inflation, they are going

to have to make decisions that means services suffer and taxpayers lose out and people who rely on public services are going to lose? what i would say is this, schools, hospitals, all our public services, are having to deal with the cost of inflation, and so what andrea and everyone running schools will see as a government that has a plan to tackle the root cause of those pressures that she faces in her school, which are the bills going up, the electricity bill going up, the gas bill going up, and what we need to do is a combination of short—term support for people who are really struggling and absolutely, schools and public services are in that category, but also a plan that says, this is how we are going to get through this. for example, on energy, which often the biggest worry for schools, it's not just the support that we give you this year and next year, it's

also the long—term plan to make sure that we can bring down energy prices to much lower levels. bend that we can bring down energy prices to much lower levels.— that we can bring down energy prices to much lower levels. and the number of times we — to much lower levels. and the number of times i've heard _ to much lower levels. and the number of times i've heard government - of times i've heard government ministers saying we'll have energy plan is like hot dinners, people are talking about things that mattered to them right now. we've got another question from trevor lyttleton, a campaignerfor question from trevor lyttleton, a campaigner for elderly people, he asks, will us chancellor ensure delivery of fully funded social care to reduce bed blocking and the nhs backlog, will you do that, or will you, chancellor, as many people fear, delay the cap on social care costs that borisjohnson promised for taxpayers and families in england? for taxpayers and families in entland? ~ for taxpayers and families in entland? . ., ., ., england? well, again, without exolaining _ england? well, again, without exolaining to _ england? well, again, without explaining to you _ england? well, again, without explaining to you know - england? well, again, without explaining to you know what i | england? well, again, without- explaining to you know what i need to announce properly to the house of commons on thursday, i think i've spent more time involved in the nhs and care system in my time in front line politics than any other area

and the one comment i would make about that question is that you cannot separate the nhs and the care system. they go hand—in—hand. if you have a care system in difficulty, those problems end up in hospitals very quickly indeed, so we have to think of those two sectors together, and we have to recognise that, yes, we are putting a lot more money into the nhs, but there are real precious there because the number of older people is going up and we have to recognise that in terms of how we help the nhs through this period. i help the nhs through this period. i know you want to give us specifics but would you acknowledge if the social care cap is delayed there is going to be a lot of disappointment and potentially a lot of extra i don't want to pretend there aren't going to be lots of difficult decisions that disappoint people, but i think we'll also —— i think what people will also see if this is the government that is committed to helping people with the greatest

difficulties and committed to our public services, and is taking a balanced approach, and the big question people are going to ask is if we are actually in recession, are these measures are making the recession worse or better? we want this to be as short a recession as possible, as shallow a recession is possible, as shallow a recession is possible if we are in it, but we don't have the option of doing nothing, because we saw with the mini budget, you heard what paul johnson said just now, if we do nothing the bank of england will then increase interest rates because they have to do that constitutionally, it's theirjob to bring down inflation, if we don't help them with what we do as a government they will have to take that pressure and we'll see mortgage rates go up, interest rates go up, and that will be damaging for families up and down the country as they see their costs increase in a different way and i think the big point i would make, conservatives know that a dynamic economy needs low taxes and sound money, but sound

money has to come first, because inflation eats away at the pound in your pocket or pounding your bank account every bit as insidiously as taxes, because it pushes up the cost of your weekly shop.— of your weekly shop. everybody is ttoin to of your weekly shop. everybody is going to pay _ of your weekly shop. everybody is going to pay more _ of your weekly shop. everybody is going to pay more tax, _ of your weekly shop. everybody is going to pay more tax, public - going to pay more tax, public services are going to be reduced, you keep saying it's difficult and we have to do this but you do not have to do it like this, we will come to your plans for energy a bit later but one of the things we know you are going to do is freeze tax thresholds and that's why everybody will pay more tax. it's a bit sneaky to do that, isn't it? chancellors have done it before, you will not be the first to do it but essentially millions of people will be paying more tax even though you are not putting taxes up. why don't you just call it a tax rise? you putting taxes up. why don't you 'ust call it a tax rise?�* call it a tax rise? you are being very artful— call it a tax rise? you are being very artful to — call it a tax rise? you are being very artful to get _ call it a tax rise? you are being very artful to get me _ call it a tax rise? you are being very artful to get me to - call it a tax rise? you are being | very artful to get me to confirm elements of the packets on thursday but i'm not going to do that, i'm afraid, but that's what i want to answer, i want to answer the principles. the principal approaches

i'm not going to be hiding anything i'm not going to be hiding anything i do. i'm a conservative chancellor and i think i've been completely explicit that taxes are going to go up and that's a very difficult thing for me to do because i came into politics to do the exact opposite, so i will be honest, i will be fair and it will be a balanced approach that recognises that the economy is struggling at the moment, businesses are struggling, families are struggling, and we need to help people through a difficult time whilst putting in place the long—term plan that gets us through to the other side and allows our economy to take off as i really believe it can.— economy to take off as i really believe it can. you've mentioned enert , believe it can. you've mentioned energy. can _ believe it can. you've mentioned energy. can you _ believe it can. you've mentioned energy, can you confirm - believe it can. you've mentioned energy, can you confirm you - believe it can. you've mentioned energy, can you confirm you will| energy, can you confirm you will tell us what will happen to people plus my energy bills on thursday, i know you won't say what it is. right now prices are capped for everyone, we are a expecting that to change, could the average family in april be facing bills of £3000 or £a000? i facing bills of £3000 or £4000? i think it's very important we do support energy bills. this is something kwasi kwarteng and liz truss got absolutely right because

their price cap doesn'tjust @ but their price cap doesn't 'ust @ but for who, their price cap doesn'tjust @ but for who, chancellor? because i their price cap doesn'tjust @ but i for who, chancellor? because their trice ca- for who, chancellor? because their price cap didn't _ for who, chancellor? because their price cap didn'tjust _ for who, chancellor? because their price cap didn'tjust help _ for who, chancellor? because their price cap didn'tjust help families i price cap didn'tjust help families that are very worried about energy bills it also brought down inflation, so it was the right thing to do. it has to be done on a sustainable basis, but the point i want to make is that a proper energy policy, i know you say you've heard politicians say this many times, but a proper energy policy isn'tjust about the short—term support, its also about showing people credibly and i stress the word credibly that we have a plan that means that we can bring down the price of energy on a long—term basis. bend can bring down the price of energy on a long-term basis.— can bring down the price of energy on a long-term basis. and that will be worthwhile _ on a long-term basis. and that will be worthwhile in _ on a long-term basis. and that will be worthwhile in the _ on a long-term basis. and that will be worthwhile in the long - on a long-term basis. and that will be worthwhile in the long term - on a long-term basis. and that will be worthwhile in the long term but| be worthwhile in the long term but people want to know what will happen to their bills in april. right now everyone is getting support. that will come to an end, won't it? well. will come to an end, won't it? well, i will be announcing _ will come to an end, won't it? well, i will be announcing what _ will come to an end, won't it? well, i will be announcing what will - i will be announcing what will happen from april on thursday. i'm not going to say now what that is, but will we continue to support people? yes, we will. will it be

uncapped, unlimited? we have to recognise that one of the reasons for the instability that followed the mini budget was that people were worried that we were exposing british public finances to the volatility of the international gas market, so there has to be some constraints to it. but, yes, we will continue to ex support families and i'll explain how we will do that. but the average family, orjust i'll explain how we will do that. but the average family, or just the most vulnerable? you can understand a conservative chancellor saying we can only afford to help people who are really struggling, but energy costs are so huge at the moment, many people are finding it extremely difficult to pay. many people are finding it extremely difficult to pay-— difficult to pay. yes, i'm not going to say what _ difficult to pay. yes, i'm not going to say what i'm — difficult to pay. yes, i'm not going to say what i'm going _ difficult to pay. yes, i'm not going to say what i'm going to _ difficult to pay. yes, i'm not going to say what i'm going to announce j to say what i'm going to announce but i recognise that people who are struggling are many families, not just families on the lowest income and we do understand those concerns. have you ditched borisjohnson's long—term energy plan that he announced not so long ago? boris long-term energy plan that he announced not so long ago? boris was treat at

announced not so long ago? boris was great at having — announced not so long ago? boris was great at having a _ announced not so long ago? boris was great at having a big _ announced not so long ago? boris was great at having a big vision _ announced not so long ago? boris was great at having a big vision for - announced not so long ago? boris was great at having a big vision for the - great at having a big vision for the future, there was sometimes an element of cakeism in what he announced so we need to ensure we can deliver the high ambitions with a practical, credible, affordable, deliverable policy. 50 a practical, credible, affordable, deliverable policy.— deliverable policy. so you are ditchint deliverable policy. so you are ditching it _ deliverable policy. so you are ditching it because _ deliverable policy. so you are ditching it because it's - deliverable policy. so you are ditching it because it's a - deliverable policy. so you are . ditching it because it's a fantasy, is that what you are saying? i’m is that what you are saying? i'm sa int is that what you are saying? i'm saying the _ is that what you are saying? i“n saying the opposite, i want to deliver exciting things he outlined but i want people to believe, you were saying you've heard endless minister saying they are going to do a motherhood and apple pie and you sort of stopped believing it, i want to present something that the hard—nosed laura kuenssberg looks at and says, actually, i believe this is going to happen and for energy policy that means recognising there is a global energy crisis and we need to make sure that dictators like putin are not able to put up our energy and gas bills in the future as they are able to at the moment. ~ ., .

future as they are able to at the moment. . ., . .., , future as they are able to at the moment. t ., . .., , ., moment. will watch carefully what ou moment. will watch carefully what you announced _ moment. will watch carefully what you announced on _ moment. will watch carefully what you announced on thursday - moment. will watch carefully what you announced on thursday but. moment. will watch carefully what you announced on thursday but as| moment. will watch carefully what i you announced on thursday but as we come to a close, you've said repeatedly this morning and in the last couple of weeks that there is no alternative, you have no choice, you have to act in this way. that's not actually true, is it? you could try to pay the debt down more slowly. you could put taxes up much more. 0r slowly. you could put taxes up much more. or you could come as some people in the party on the right think cut tax, it's crazy to increase taxes in a recession. this is a political choice. iestate increase taxes in a recession. this is a political choice.— is a political choice. we have choices of— is a political choice. we have choices of course _ is a political choice. we have choices of course and - is a political choice. we have choices of course and we - is a political choice. we have choices of course and we will is a political choice. we have - choices of course and we will make those choices honestly and fairly, but what i would say to people is that unusually for a chancellor i come into office having just tried two months earlier under different leadership exactly the things that some people are advocating, in other words they plan that doesn't show how in the long run we can afford it, in the long run we will start to bring down our debt. we have tried that. we saw it didn't work. we have

learned from those mistakes. and now is a chance to put in place a plan that does stand the test of time and for me that means recognising that families are struggling, also recognising that businesses want a plan for the future that can give them confidence that the uk is a great place to invest in, that we have big opportunities, and we are going to be a fantastic and successful economy. going to be a fantastic and successful econom . . ., , ., successful economy. would you blame some of our— successful economy. would you blame some of our viewers _ successful economy. would you blame some of our viewers who _ successful economy. would you blame some of our viewers who might - successful economy. would you blame some of our viewers who might think | some of our viewers who might think tory cuts, here we go again? ishieilii. some of our viewers who might think tory cuts, here we go again?- tory cuts, here we go again? well, i think austerity _ tory cuts, here we go again? well, i think austerity is _ tory cuts, here we go again? well, i think austerity is it's _ tory cuts, here we go again? well, i think austerity is it's often _ think austerity is it's often characterised, particularly by people who don't vote conservative, as a sort of wilful choice to make things worse in the short term for some long term gain, that is not going to happen. we want to do, as i say, everything we can to make this recession that we appear to be n as short and shallow as possible. we are accepting there will be difficult decisions but we want to do it in a way that's fair and recognises the pressure that

families up and down the country are under the site chancellor, it's great to have you in the studio this morning, we are a little careful —— we listen carefully on thursday. let's find out what our panel recommend to that. roula khalaf, the editor of the financial times, historian simon schama, and independent number cruncher pauljohnson, from the ifs. paul, what do you reckon? that sounds, for code, or something that's going to be very painful potentially for a very long time? yes and i think that's what we've been _ yes and i think that's what we've been hearing from the chancellor for some _ been hearing from the chancellor for some time — been hearing from the chancellor for some time. it's very striking he kept _ some time. it's very striking he kept saying everyone is going to be paying _ kept saying everyone is going to be paying more taxes, that could mean anything _ paying more taxes, that could mean anything from we'll keep to the freezing — anything from we'll keep to the freezing of income tax rates that's already— freezing of income tax rates that's already there to some substantial additional taxes, whether its reintroduction of the national insurance increase, or if it's genuinely— insurance increase, or if it's genuinely everyone paying more taxes the only— genuinely everyone paying more taxes the only way you do that is by increasing _ the only way you do that is by increasing vat. it the only way you do that is by increasing vat.— the only way you do that is by

increasing vat. it striking to hear that from a _ increasing vat. it striking to hear that from a chancellor, _ increasing vat. it striking to hear that from a chancellor, every - increasing vat. it striking to hear i that from a chancellor, every single person will pay more tax? yes. that from a chancellor, every single person will pay more tax?— person will pay more tax? yes, i think what _ person will pay more tax? yes, i think what you _ person will pay more tax? yes, i think what you hear, _ person will pay more tax? yes, i think what you hear, this - person will pay more tax? yes, i think what you hear, this is - person will pay more tax? yes, i think what you hear, this is on i person will pay more tax? yes, i i think what you hear, this is on the negative side, on the positive side what i hear from the chancellor todayis what i hear from the chancellor today is a relief, that no more fantasy economics here, we are going to be fiscally responsible and there will be pain and we will try to spread the pain across. now, two things that are not being said yet in this sort of new era of transparency. 0ne in this sort of new era of transparency. one is that the chancellor has to overcompensate for the mini budget and for the impact of the mini budget and that is the cost today is much higher than it would have been a month ago. so the public might — would have been a month ago. so the public might suffer _ would have been a month ago. so the public might suffer paying _ would have been a month ago. so the public might suffer paying more - would have been a month ago. so the public might suffer paying more tax i public might suffer paying more tax because of mistakes that kwasi kwarteng make.— because of mistakes that kwasi kwartent make. , ., , kwarteng make. exactly on the second toint is ou kwarteng make. exactly on the second point is you tried _ kwarteng make. exactly on the second point is you tried to _ kwarteng make. exactly on the second point is you tried to address _ kwarteng make. exactly on the second point is you tried to address this, - point is you tried to address this, is brexit. there is brexit is the

elephant in the room. there is no debate today about the cost of brexit. yes, there are opportunities in brexit, we haven't seen them yet, but by focusing only on there are opportunities in the future and not discussing the cost of brexit, i think that there is more room for transparency, that's what i'm trying to say. transparency, that's what i'm trying to sa . ,, ., transparency, that's what i'm trying to sa _ ,, ., ., transparency, that's what i'm trying to sa . ,, ., ., .,~ ., to say. simon, what did you make of heafint to say. simon, what did you make of hearint a to say. simon, what did you make of hearing a politician _ to say. simon, what did you make of hearing a politician speak _ to say. simon, what did you make of hearing a politician speak like - hearing a politician speak like that, i'm going to be honest and tough but i'll tell you the truth, what did you think? it’s tough but i'll tell you the truth, what did you think?— tough but i'll tell you the truth, what did you think? it's the male fist inside the _ what did you think? it's the male fist inside the velvet _ what did you think? it's the male fist inside the velvet glove - what did you think? it's the male fist inside the velvet glove but i what did you think? it's the male l fist inside the velvet glove but the glove _ fist inside the velvet glove but the glove does — fist inside the velvet glove but the glove does look _ fist inside the velvet glove but the glove does look very— fist inside the velvet glove but the glove does look very velvety, - fist inside the velvet glove but the. glove does look very velvety, that's jeremy— glove does look very velvety, that's jeremy hunt's — glove does look very velvety, that's jeremy hunt's speciality. _ glove does look very velvety, that's jeremy hunt's speciality. as - glove does look very velvety, that's jeremy hunt's speciality. as paul. jeremy hunt's speciality. as paul and roula — jeremy hunt's speciality. as paul and roula have _ jeremy hunt's speciality. as paul and roula have said, _ jeremy hunt's speciality. as paul and roula have said, you - jeremy hunt's speciality. as paul and roula have said, you took. jeremy hunt's speciality. as paul| and roula have said, you took up jeremy hunt's speciality. as paul- and roula have said, you took up the point _ and roula have said, you took up the point about— and roula have said, you took up the point about brexit, _ and roula have said, you took up the point about brexit, i— and roula have said, you took up the point about brexit, i think— and roula have said, you took up the point about brexit, i think this - point about brexit, i think this will generate _ point about brexit, i think this will generate a _ point about brexit, i think this will generate a new _ point about brexit, i think this will generate a new debate . point about brexit, i think this| will generate a new debate not point about brexit, i think this - will generate a new debate not least because _ will generate a new debate not least because the — will generate a new debate not least because the chancellor— will generate a new debate not least because the chancellor did - will generate a new debate not least because the chancellor did say, - because the chancellor did say, well, _ because the chancellor did say, well, inflation _ because the chancellor did say, well, inflation has _ because the chancellor did say, well, inflation has a _ because the chancellor did say, well, inflation has a lot- because the chancellor did say, well, inflation has a lot to - because the chancellor did say, well, inflation has a lot to do i because the chancellor did say, i well, inflation has a lot to do with the cost _ well, inflation has a lot to do with the cost of— well, inflation has a lot to do with the cost of labour, _ well, inflation has a lot to do with the cost of labour, well, - well, inflation has a lot to do with the cost of labour, well, of- well, inflation has a lot to do with| the cost of labour, well, of course issues _ the cost of labour, well, of course issues in — the cost of labour, well, of course issues in the — the cost of labour, well, of course issues in the supply— the cost of labour, well, of course issues in the supply chain - the cost of labour, well, of course issues in the supply chain and - the cost of labour, well, of course issues in the supply chain and the | issues in the supply chain and the cost of— issues in the supply chain and the cost of labour— issues in the supply chain and the cost of labour are _ issues in the supply chain and the cost of labour are not _ issues in the supply chain and the cost of labour are not entirely-

cost of labour are not entirely unrelated _ cost of labour are not entirely unrelated to _ cost of labour are not entirely unrelated to the _ cost of labour are not entirely unrelated to the fact - cost of labour are not entirely unrelated to the fact that - unrelated to the fact that agricultural— unrelated to the fact that agricultural produce - unrelated to the fact that agricultural produce is i unrelated to the fact that - agricultural produce is rotting in the fields, — agricultural produce is rotting in the fields, nhs— agricultural produce is rotting in the fields, nhs staff _ agricultural produce is rotting in the fields, nhs staff has - agricultural produce is rotting in the fields, nhs staff has been i the fields, nhs staff has been wounded _ the fields, nhs staff has been wounded by— the fields, nhs staff has been wounded by the _ the fields, nhs staff has been wounded by the lack- the fields, nhs staff has been wounded by the lack of... - the fields, nhs staff has been| wounded by the lack of... that the fields, nhs staff has been - wounded by the lack of... that has pushed _ wounded by the lack of... that has pushed up — wounded by the lack of... that has pushed up real— wounded by the lack of... that has pushed up real wages, _ wounded by the lack of... that has pushed up real wages, so- wounded by the lack of... that has pushed up real wages, so the - wounded by the lack of... that has pushed up real wages, so the ton pushed up real wages, so the two things— pushed up real wages, so the two things are — pushed up real wages, so the two things are connected _ pushed up real wages, so the two things are connected and - pushed up real wages, so the two things are connected and i- pushed up real wages, so the two things are connected and i say- pushed up real wages, so the ton things are connected and i sayjust one other— things are connected and i sayjust one other thing. _ things are connected and i sayjust one other thing, during, _ things are connected and i sayjust one otherthing, during, over- things are connected and i sayjust one other thing, during, over the. one otherthing, during, overthe course _ one otherthing, during, overthe course of— one otherthing, during, overthe course of the _ one otherthing, during, overthe course of the interview, - one otherthing, during, overthe course of the interview, he - one otherthing, during, overthe course of the interview, he wentl course of the interview, he went from _ course of the interview, he went from standard _ course of the interview, he went from standard conservative - course of the interview, he went from standard conservative view course of the interview, he went - from standard conservative view that we are _ from standard conservative view that we are absolutely— from standard conservative view that we are absolutely committed - from standard conservative view that we are absolutely committed to - we are absolutely committed to heiping — we are absolutely committed to heiping the _ we are absolutely committed to helping the most _ we are absolutely committed to helping the most vulnerable - we are absolutely committed to helping the most vulnerable toi we are absolutely committed to - helping the most vulnerable to more or less _ helping the most vulnerable to more or less admitting _ helping the most vulnerable to more or less admitting is _ helping the most vulnerable to more or less admitting is the _ helping the most vulnerable to more or less admitting is the vulnerable i or less admitting is the vulnerable is the broad middle _ or less admitting is the vulnerable is the broad middle class, - or less admitting is the vulnerable is the broad middle class, the - is the broad middle class, the middle — is the broad middle class, the middle class _ is the broad middle class, the middle class suffering - is the broad middle class, the middle class suffering the - is the broad middle class, thei middle class suffering the pain is the broad middle class, the - middle class suffering the pain are going _ middle class suffering the pain are going to _ middle class suffering the pain are going to have _ middle class suffering the pain are going to have to _ middle class suffering the pain are going to have to pay— middle class suffering the pain are going to have to pay more - middle class suffering the pain are going to have to pay more taxes i middle class suffering the pain are i going to have to pay more taxes but they are _ going to have to pay more taxes but they are also — going to have to pay more taxes but they are also people _ going to have to pay more taxes but they are also people who _ going to have to pay more taxes but they are also people who are - going to have to pay more taxes but| they are also people who are waiting ei-ht they are also people who are waiting eight hours — they are also people who are waiting eight hours for— they are also people who are waiting eight hours for an _ they are also people who are waiting eight hours for an ambience. - they are also people who are waiting eight hours for an ambience. isn’t i eight hours for an ambience. isn't it true, eight hours for an ambience. isn't it true. paul. _ eight hours for an ambience. isn't it true, paul, that _ eight hours for an ambience. isn't it true, paul, that given _ eight hours for an ambience. it true, paul, that given that eight hours for an ambience.- it true, paul, that given that what has happened since we left the eu the unprecedented crisis of the pandemic, things happening with supply chains, global economic turbulence everywhere, isn't it true to say that actually it hasn't been possible to see the opportunities of

brexit yet, and doesn't thereon risk for people on the other side of the debate to be a bit gleeful and say it was all because of that, i was right? not everything we are facing at the moment— not everything we are facing at the moment is— not everything we are facing at the moment is because of brexit, there has been _ moment is because of brexit, there has been a — moment is because of brexit, there has been a series of things happening since then, not least the mini budget, the irony of which, intending — mini budget, the irony of which, intending to be a tax—cutting budget, _ intending to be a tax—cutting budget, is that taxes will be higher than they— budget, is that taxes will be higher than they otherwise would have been because _ than they otherwise would have been because we need to get back to credibility. but with brexit, it is clear— credibility. but with brexit, it is clear that — credibility. but with brexit, it is clear that when you look at investment and trade, it has had a substantially negative effect on the uk economy relative to other economies and that's part of the problem — economies and that's part of the problem the chancellor needs to deal with. , �* .., , problem the chancellor needs to deal with. , �* ,, ., with. isn't it the case, as simon ticked with. isn't it the case, as simon picked up. _ with. isn't it the case, as simon picked up. the _ with. isn't it the case, as simon picked up, the middle - with. isn't it the case, as simon picked up, the middle classes i with. isn't it the case, as simon i picked up, the middle classes will be hit by this because of tax thresholds being frozen. everyone is beint hit at thresholds being frozen. everyone is being hit at the _ thresholds being frozen. everyone is being hit at the moment _ thresholds being frozen. everyone is being hit at the moment and - thresholds being frozen. everyone is being hit at the moment and we - thresholds being frozen. everyone is being hit at the moment and we will| being hit at the moment and we will see possibly a record reduction in real household income this year. looking — real household income this year. looking at — real household income this year.

looking at the current projections on what _ looking at the current projections on what has happened to real household disposable income in the next year— household disposable income in the next year or two, it is falling because _ next year or two, it is falling because obviously wages are rising but not _ because obviously wages are rising but not as— because obviously wages are rising but not as fast as prices and at the same _ but not as fast as prices and at the same time — but not as fast as prices and at the same time taxes are rising. so all of that— same time taxes are rising. so all of that is— same time taxes are rising. so all of that is hitting households and with the — of that is hitting households and with the freezing of the tax allowances and further tax rises, yes, _ allowances and further tax rises, yes, the — allowances and further tax rises, yes, the chancellor couldn't have been _ yes, the chancellor couldn't have been clearer, everyone will be hit by this _ been clearer, everyone will be hit b this. . ., ., ., ., by this. what will it do to our tolitics by this. what will it do to our politics because _ by this. what will it do to our politics because it's - by this. what will it do to our politics because it's a - by this. what will it do to our politics because it's a prettyl by this. what will it do to our - politics because it's a pretty tough sell. , , , w' politics because it's a pretty tough sell. ,, , ,, sell. this is the big trick, because on the one _ sell. this is the big trick, because on the one hand _ sell. this is the big trick, because on the one hand they _ sell. this is the big trick, because on the one hand they don't - sell. this is the big trick, because on the one hand they don't have i sell. this is the big trick, because| on the one hand they don't have a choice. they have to both raise taxes and cut spending. but what they need to do is tell a slightly different story a year from now because we have an election. what will be interesting, and what i will be watching for, is how much is front—loaded and how much is back loaded because it wouldn't be a bad idea from their point of view

politically, to leave a lot of the tax increases, to back load them, and then possibly... the tax increases, to back load them, and then possibly. . ._ tax increases, to back load them, and then possibly... the rules can bend after — and then possibly... the rules can bend after all. _ and then possibly... the rules can bend after all. or _ and then possibly... the rules can bend after all. or you _ and then possibly... the rules can bend after all. or you might - and then possibly... the rules canl bend after all. or you might saddle labour bend after all. or you might saddle labour with — bend after all. or you might saddle labour with them. _ bend after all. or you might saddle labour with them. we'll— bend after all. or you might saddle labour with them. we'll talk - bend after all. or you might saddle labour with them. we'll talk to - labour with them. we'll talk to rachel wreaths _ labour with them. we'll talk to rachel wreaths of _ labour with them. we'll talk to rachel wreaths of the - labour with them. we'll talk to rachel wreaths of the labour i labour with them. we'll talk to - rachel wreaths of the labour party in a moment. you talked about elections there. let's talk about the midterms. it takes a while to count the results, but it looks like against expectations, the democrats might not lose the senate, so what do you make of what has gone on because i know you watch american politics keenly, simon. i know you watch american politics keenly. simon-— keenly, simon. i do, and i live in the hudson _ keenly, simon. i do, and i live in the hudson valley. _ keenly, simon. i do, and i live in the hudson valley. this - keenly, simon. i do, and i live in the hudson valley. this is - keenly, simon. i do, and i live in the hudson valley. this is an - the hudson valley. this is an extraordinary— the hudson valley. this is an extraordinary day— the hudson valley. this is an extraordinary day and - the hudson valley. this is an extraordinary day and the - extraordinary day and the vindication _ extraordinary day and the vindication of— extraordinary day and the vindication of american i extraordinary day and the - vindication of american democracy extraordinary day and the _ vindication of american democracy in a way _ vindication of american democracy in a way i_ vindication of american democracy in a way. i only— vindication of american democracy in a way. i only say _ vindication of american democracy in a way. i only say that _ vindication of american democracy in a way. i only say that for— vindication of american democracy in a way. i only say that for one - a way. i only say that for one crucial — a way. i only say that for one crucial reason. _ a way. i only say that for one crucial reason. in _ a way. i only say that for one crucial reason. in the - a way. i only say that for one crucial reason. in the 1970s, | a way. i only say that for one - crucial reason. in the 1970s, there was a _ crucial reason. in the 1970s, there was a political—

crucial reason. in the 1970s, there was a political philosopher- crucial reason. in the 1970s, there was a political philosopher who . was a political philosopher who wrote _ was a political philosopher who wrote a — was a political philosopher who wrote a wonderful— was a political philosopher who wrote a wonderful essay - was a political philosopher who wrote a wonderful essay called | wrote a wonderful essay called politics — wrote a wonderful essay called politics and _ wrote a wonderful essay called politics and lives, _ wrote a wonderful essay called politics and lives, and - wrote a wonderful essay called politics and lives, and she - wrote a wonderful essay called. politics and lives, and she made wrote a wonderful essay called i politics and lives, and she made a very interesting _ politics and lives, and she made a very interesting point _ politics and lives, and she made a very interesting point out - politics and lives, and she made a very interesting point out of- politics and lives, and she made a very interesting point out of left i very interesting point out of left field that — very interesting point out of left field that lies _ very interesting point out of left field that lies are _ very interesting point out of left field that lies are exciting, - very interesting point out of left field that lies are exciting, they| field that lies are exciting, they motivate — field that lies are exciting, they motivate you _ field that lies are exciting, they motivate you because - field that lies are exciting, they motivate you because you - field that lies are exciting, they motivate you because you have j field that lies are exciting, they. motivate you because you have a weirdly— motivate you because you have a weirdly kind _ motivate you because you have a weirdly kind of— motivate you because you have a weirdly kind of politico _ motivate you because you have a weirdly kind of politico erotic - weirdly kind of politico erotic relationship _ weirdly kind of politico erotic relationship with— weirdly kind of politico erotic relationship with a _ weirdly kind of politico erotic i relationship with a manipulation weirdly kind of politico erotic - relationship with a manipulation of the truth — relationship with a manipulation of the truth. truth _ relationship with a manipulation of the truth. truth is— relationship with a manipulation of the truth. truth is much— relationship with a manipulation of the truth. truth is much harder- relationship with a manipulation of the truth. truth is much harder toi the truth. truth is much harder to defend _ the truth. truth is much harder to defend you — the truth. truth is much harder to defend. you are _ the truth. truth is much harder to defend. you are pompous - the truth. truth is much harder to defend. you are pompous and - the truth. truth is much harder to defend. you are pompous and on| the truth. truth is much harder to. defend. you are pompous and on the back foot, _ defend. you are pompous and on the back foot, small— defend. you are pompous and on the back foot, small c— defend. you are pompous and on the back foot, small c conservative. - defend. you are pompous and on the back foot, small c conservative. so i back foot, small c conservative. so the trump — back foot, small c conservative. so the trump rally— back foot, small c conservative. so the trump rally was _ back foot, small c conservative. so the trump rally was the _ back foot, small c conservative. so the trump rally was the model - back foot, small c conservative. so the trump rally was the model of l back foot, small c conservative. so i the trump rally was the model of the eiection— the trump rally was the model of the election being — the trump rally was the model of the election being stolen, _ the trump rally was the model of the election being stolen, it— the trump rally was the model of the election being stolen, it was- the trump rally was the model of the election being stolen, it was rigged l election being stolen, it was rigged and so _ election being stolen, it was rigged and so on — election being stolen, it was rigged and so on what— election being stolen, it was rigged and so on. what has— election being stolen, it was rigged and so on. what has been- and so on. what has been extraordinary— and so on. what has been extraordinary about- and so on. what has been extraordinary about this i and so on. what has been- extraordinary about this election, and nobody— extraordinary about this election, and nobody including _ extraordinary about this election, and nobody including me - extraordinary about this election, and nobody including me thoughtj extraordinary about this election, i and nobody including me thought it would _ and nobody including me thought it would happen, _ and nobody including me thought it would happen. is— and nobody including me thought it would happen, is that _ and nobody including me thought it would happen, is that almost - and nobody including me thought it would happen, is that almost in - would happen, is that almost in every— would happen, is that almost in every case _ would happen, is that almost in every case except _ would happen, is that almost in every case except a _ would happen, is that almost in every case except a few, - would happen, is that almost in every case except a few, the i would happen, is that almost in i every case except a few, the most vehement — every case except a few, the most vehement deniers _ every case except a few, the most vehement deniers of— every case except a few, the most vehement deniers of the - every case except a few, the most vehement deniers of the truth, . every case except a few, the mostl vehement deniers of the truth, the eiection— vehement deniers of the truth, the election truth, _ vehement deniers of the truth, the election truth, have _ vehement deniers of the truth, the election truth, have all _ vehement deniers of the truth, the election truth, have all been - election truth, have all been defeated _ election truth, have all been defeated. and _ election truth, have all been defeated. and beyond - election truth, have all been i defeated. and beyond actually election truth, have all been - defeated. and beyond actually the extraordinary— defeated. and beyond actually the extraordinary fact _ defeated. and beyond actually the extraordinary fact in _ defeated. and beyond actually the extraordinary fact in itself- defeated. and beyond actually the extraordinary fact in itself that - extraordinary fact in itself that this is— extraordinary fact in itself that this is the _ extraordinary fact in itself that this is the best _ extraordinary fact in itself that this is the best record - extraordinary fact in itself that this is the best record an - extraordinary fact in itself that - this is the best record an incumbent president— this is the best record an incumbent president has— this is the best record an incumbent president has had _ this is the best record an incumbent president has had for— this is the best record an incumbent president has had for more - this is the best record an incumbent president has had for more than. this is the best record an incumbentj president has had for more than two decades, _ president has had for more than two decades, there _ president has had for more than two decades, there is _ president has had for more than two decades, there is a _ president has had for more than two decades, there is a sense _ president has had for more than two decades, there is a sense in- president has had for more than two decades, there is a sense in which. decades, there is a sense in which that actually — decades, there is a sense in which that actually democracy, - decades, there is a sense in which|

that actually democracy, american democracy, — that actually democracy, american democracy, which _ that actually democracy, american democracy, which was _ that actually democracy, american democracy, which was thought - that actually democracy, american democracy, which was thought to. that actually democracy, american - democracy, which was thought to have been on _ democracy, which was thought to have been on life _ democracy, which was thought to have been on life support, _ democracy, which was thought to have been on life support, has _ democracy, which was thought to have been on life support, has been - democracy, which was thought to have been on life support, has been taken i been on life support, has been taken off it _ been on life support, has been taken off it one _ been on life support, has been taken off it. one small— been on life support, has been taken off it. one small point, _ been on life support, has been taken off it. one small point, i— been on life support, has been taken off it. one small point, i know, - off it. one small point, i know, iong _ off it. one small point, i know, long winded _ off it. one small point, i know, long winded simon, _ off it. one small point, i know, long winded simon, is- off it. one small point, i know, long winded simon, is that - long winded simon, is that remarkably, _ long winded simon, is that remarkably, even- long winded simon, is that remarkably, even fiercely. long winded simon, is that - remarkably, even fiercely trump supporting — remarkably, even fiercely trump supporting politicians— remarkably, even fiercely trump supporting politicians have - supporting politicians have conceded. _ supporting politicians have conceded, unlike - supporting politicians have conceded, unlike donald i supporting politicians have - conceded, unlike donald trump, supporting politicians have _ conceded, unlike donald trump, who is yet _ conceded, unlike donald trump, who is yet to— conceded, unlike donald trump, who is yet to concede _ conceded, unlike donald trump, who is yet to concede the _ conceded, unlike donald trump, who is yet to concede the election - conceded, unlike donald trump, who is yet to concede the election of- is yet to concede the election of two years— is yet to concede the election of two years ago _ is yet to concede the election of two years ago it _ is yet to concede the election of two years ago-— two years ago. it is still a tricky ticture two years ago. it is still a tricky picture for _ two years ago. it is still a tricky picture for the _ two years ago. it is still a tricky picture for the democrats - two years ago. it is still a tricky picture for the democrats and l two years ago. it is still a tricky i picture for the democrats and our colleague justin picture for the democrats and our colleaguejustin webb is an interesting piece on the sunday times this morning saying it is the democrats a pot of the worst nightmare because joe democrats a pot of the worst nightmare becausejoe biden will feel vindicated and he will definitely then try to stay on as president, running again and is that a problem? it is president, running again and is that a troblem? , ., , , a problem? it is a problem but i would suggest _ a problem? it is a problem but i would suggest we _ a problem? it is a problem but i would suggest we all _ a problem? it is a problem but i would suggest we all focus - a problem? it is a problem but i would suggest we all focus on i a problem? it is a problem but i i would suggest we all focus on gill because gill might tell him not to run. i think there is a big chance he would end up not running, even though he said he would. but he did say that he would be discussing it with his wife, jill. it

say that he would be discussing it with his wife, jill.— with his wife, jill. it would be fascinating — with his wife, jill. it would be fascinating to _ with his wife, jill. it would be fascinating to watch - with his wife, jill. it would be fascinating to watch if - with his wife, jill. it would be fascinating to watch if it - with his wife, jill. it would be i fascinating to watch if it comes with his wife, jill. it would be - fascinating to watch if it comes to pass. and briefly, elon musk has beenin pass. and briefly, elon musk has been in the news a lot. in the news too much! he is giving you and other people a lot of headlines. you are one of the few in this country who has recently spent time with the billionaire twitter owner, rocket man, whatever you else you want to call him. what is he like what is he up to? call him. what is he like what is he u- to? ._ ,. , up to? the way i described him in the dinner. _ up to? the way i described him in the dinner, he _ up to? the way i described him in the dinner, he is _ up to? the way i described him in the dinner, he is like _ up to? the way i described him in the dinner, he is like two - up to? the way i described him in the dinner, he is like two people. | the dinner, he is like two people. two people combined. 0n the one hand you have an inventor, a builder, someone who has a mission and will fight for it. on the other hand, you have a kid, a troublemaker, mischievous, doesn't really believe in rules. doesn't really believe in the rule of law itself. and the combination can in some cases bring genius and in some cases bring

disaster. i was intrigued by him. very curious. ihie disaster. i was intrigued by him. very curious-— disaster. i was intrigued by him. ve curious. ., ., ,, .,~ very curious. we are about to speak to labour shadow _ very curious. we are about to speak to labour shadow chancellor - very curious. we are about to speak to labour shadow chancellor rachel| to labour shadow chancellor rachel wreaths. paul, how do you think she can position herself? we have heard from jeremy hunt so what are labour trying to do here? thea;r from jeremy hunt so what are labour trying to do here?— trying to do here? they have very difficult position. _ trying to do here? they have very difficult position. if— trying to do here? they have very difficult position. if labour- trying to do here? they have very difficult position. if labour win i trying to do here? they have very difficult position. if labour win in | difficult position. if labour win in a couple of years, it will not be like 97 when they won. we thought of the conservatives as essentially repairing public finances and the economy was in a good position, leaving labour with plenty of opportunity to spend more and do things that they wanted to do with public services. in 202a, 25, that will not be the position. we have seen the economy is likely to be a difficult place, possibly recovering, but the public finances will not have a lot of money around so if labour want to do a lot of the things i think they want to do, they will have to think quite hard about

what they will do on the tax side as well and that's a difficult sell before the election because miserable people like me, when it comes to their manifesto will say, how will you pay for it? you comes to their manifesto will say, how will you pay for it?— how will you pay for it? you have described yourself _ how will you pay for it? you have described yourself as _ how will you pay for it? you have described yourself as miserable i how will you pay for it? you have i described yourself as miserable and jeremy hunt said i was hard—nosed so how many insults will fly by the end of the show? let's see what labour has to say this morning. we heard there how much the economic choices the government is making matter, and we'e heard from jeremy hunt how he's making decisions for thursday. thank you so much for your questions for him, and remember, you can get in touch with any of your thoughts or questions. you can email us at kuenssberg.co.uk, use the hashtag bbclaurak, or on the bbc live page at bbc.co.uk/news follow the conversation this morning. but we have your questions too for labour to say what their alternatives would be. rachel reeves, the shadow chancellor, is in leeds, where she's attending a remembrance service in bramley later, so she joins us from there this morning.

good there this morning. morning, laura. do you agree there good morning, laura. do you agree there will be _ good morning, laura. do you agree there will be a _ good morning, laura. do you agree there will be a big _ good morning, laura. do you agree there will be a big hole _ good morning, laura. do you agree there will be a big hole in _ good morning, laura. do you agree there will be a big hole in the - there will be a big hole in the public finances in the order of tens of billions? it public finances in the order of tens of billions? , public finances in the order of tens of billions?— of billions? it is disappointing that we still _ of billions? it is disappointing that we still don't _ of billions? it is disappointing that we still don't know - of billions? it is disappointing that we still don't know the i of billions? it is disappointing i that we still don't know the state of the public finances. the last chancellor gag to the office for budget responsibility so we we haven't been able to see the details of what our public finances or the state of the economy are. there are two important things i am looking for on thursday from the chancellor and that i would prioritise if it was me as a labour chancellor making the autumn statement. the first is about fair choices to manage the public finances. the second is a serious plan for growth to stop us languishing at the bottom of the global league tables of growth and instead see some of the big opportunities for the industries of the future and investment and jobs here in britain. [30 the future and investment and “obs here in britain.fi the future and investment and “obs here in britain.�* here in britain. do you agree in thrincile here in britain. do you agree in principle that — here in britain. do you agree in principle that there _ here in britain. do you agree in principle that there is - here in britain. do you agree in principle that there is a - here in britain. do you agree in principle that there is a gap, i here in britain. do you agree in principle that there is a gap, a |

principle that there is a gap, a black hole, as some are calling it, do you agree with that assessment that whether it is a conservative government or whether you became chancellor tomorrow, there is a gap between what the government is expecting to have back from taxes and what they want to spend? there is clearl a and what they want to spend? there is clearly a gap. _ and what they want to spend? there is clearly a gap. we _ and what they want to spend? there is clearly a gap, we don't _ and what they want to spend? there is clearly a gap, we don't know- and what they want to spend? ties is clearly a gap, we don't know the scale of it yet, and that is disappointing. it's why i have already started setting out some of the tax changes that we would make and we would prioritise. for example, the prime minister is flying off to the g20 summit later today. there is already global agreement to get global multinationals to pay their fair share of taxes in the countries in which they operate. some of these global multinationals can afford to fly to space but apparently they can't afford to pay their taxes on planet earth. that needs to change and under labour it would. we think it can bring in for britain up to 7 billion per year, so that's one choice that we would be making in an autumn statement. just on the issue

we have discussed on many occasions, laura, around the windfall tax, the prime minister, when he was chancellor, slow pedalled on introducing a windfall tax and the energy profits levy he eventually came up with means that shall is paying none of it in britain. we would reform that energy profits levy to make it a proper windfall tax and we think by backdating it to january when the windfall profits from war started to come into the coffers for energy companies, extending it by an additional two years and closing some of the loopholes and putting up that tax rate so it matches the level of taxes of energy companies in norway, we believe that could bring in an additional £50 billion. it doesn't have tojust be additional £50 billion. it doesn't have to just be heaping the pressure on ordinary working people, which is the message we heard from jeremy hunt earlier in the programme. fairer choices are possible. shes

fairer choices are possible. as alwa s, fairer choices are possible. as always, huge scepticism about what taxes could bring in and we understand the government will extend their energy tax profit levy, probably putting it up by 10% and applying it until 2028 so they are doing it. it applying it until 2028 so they are doint it. , ., , applying it until 2028 so they are doint it. , ., , ., ., doing it. it is only some of it, and this is really _ doing it. it is only some of it, and this is really important. _ doing it. it is only some of it, and this is really important. unless i this is really important. unless they get rid of the investment allowances which mean that energy companies can offset more investment in extraction of oil and gas in the north sea against those taxes, you will still have a situation where some of those companies are not actually paying the energy profits levy. actually paying the energy profits le . . ., , ., , levy. the companies will argue they need to do that _ levy. the companies will argue they need to do that to _ levy. the companies will argue they need to do that to invest _ levy. the companies will argue they need to do that to invest in - levy. the companies will argue they need to do that to invest in the - need to do that to invest in the north sea to keep the lights on. ihie north sea to keep the lights on. we reall north sea to keep the lights on. - really need to see investment in renewables because that is the cheapest form of energy and will boost our energy security in britain and get us to the net zero targets, and get us to the net zero targets, and create thousands and thousands of well—paid, secure jobs and create thousands and thousands of well—paid, securejobs in britain, which is what the labour

green prosperity plan is all about because there are huge opportunities here. ihie because there are huge opportunities here. ~ ., r' because there are huge opportunities here. . ., w , because there are huge opportunities here. . ., , ., because there are huge opportunities here. . , ., , ., , here. we asked viewers to provide us with their questions, _ here. we asked viewers to provide us with their questions, we _ here. we asked viewers to provide us with their questions, we had - here. we asked viewers to provide us with their questions, we had that - with their questions, we had that with their questions, we had that with jeremy with their questions, we had that withjeremy hunt and we have a question from brian matthews. how does labour explain rising interest rates and inflation in the us and europe, in many cases worse than here? 0ur financial problems are primarily due to furlough, lockdown and ukraine — all spending that labour supported. windfall tax or not, we'd be in virtually the same budget hole under a labour government, wouldn't we? what do you say to him? of course there are global— what do you say to him? of course there are global factors _ what do you say to him? of course there are global factors here. - what do you say to him? of course there are global factors here. the i there are globalfactors here. the covid pandemic, the war in ukraine. but we have been uniquely exposed here in britain. we have been languishing in the global league tables for growth over the last decade or so, meaning when these crises, along we are not in a position to be able to deal with them. the last labour government were able to invest in public services because the economy was growing between 2% and 2.5%. in the

last decade we have been growing at just 1.a% on average, lower than most of our international competitors, which is why, as well as the fairer choices i have started to set out, we also need a serious plan for growth, the green prosperity plan, the reform to business rates to help small businesses and high street businesses and high street businesses thrive. the work we're doing to make britain the best place to start and grow a business. and also some of the changes we need to see to brexit work for britain, by sorting out some of the holes in the deal the government did. [30 sorting out some of the holes in the deal the government did.— deal the government did. do you acce tt deal the government did. do you accept that _ deal the government did. do you accept that if _ deal the government did. do you accept that if you _ deal the government did. do you accept that if you became - deal the government did. do you - accept that if you became chancellor tomorrow or you are lucky enough to win the next election, do you accept as chancellor you would also have to rein in public spending and put taxes up? i rein in public spending and put taxes u-? ., rein in public spending and put taxes up?— rein in public spending and put taxesu-? ., ., ., i, ., taxes up? i have already set out some of the _ taxes up? i have already set out some of the tax _ taxes up? i have already set out some of the tax changes - taxes up? i have already set out some of the tax changes an - taxes up? i have already set out - some of the tax changes an incoming labour government would make. i recognise that an incoming labour government would not be able to do everything we want as quickly as possible, and that is frustrating because the way the government have managed our economy and public

finances this last decade, means we both have public services on their knees and public finances in a mess. an incoming labour government would inherit that. i have set out a set of fiscal rules, as you know, and that says that everything in our next manifesto will be fully costed and funded. we recognise we will inherit this mess, it will put constraints on us but it's important we get both the stability and security we need in our economy and we know from reports today that the failure to do that by the conservatives has cost us £30 billion. ., , ., ., billion. rather trying to have it both ways. _ billion. rather trying to have it both ways, aren't _ billion. rather trying to have it both ways, aren't you? - billion. rather trying to have it both ways, aren't you? you i billion. rather trying to have it - both ways, aren't you? you accept, as the conservatives do, you would have to get a grip on public spending and you accept you would have to put taxes up, yet you also are saying that the way the conservatives are doing it is wrong. you are trying to have it both ways and on the left of your party, and some economists, would dispute your view that you have to have your set

of fiscal rules. in other words, some economists and some on the left will say it doesn't matter that much to keep borrowing more money for longer. you could pay the debt down over a much longer period or put taxes up much more. you don't have to take this approach. i worked at the bank of england as an economist for many years and i recognise there are restraints on what governments can do. a lot of these problems are because of mistakes the government has made and it imposes restraints on an incoming labour government but it's so important to have a serious plan for growing the economy and improving living standards of ordinary people. that will give us the money to invest in public services. just because you have to make difficult decisions doesn't mean you have to make the same decisions at the choices labour would be making would make our tax system fairer and would grow the economy so we've got the money for the essential public

services that my constituents rely on, my family relies on, and frankly in a total mess today whether it's our schools or our nhs because of the decisions over the last decade. we've got seven alien people on hospital waiting lists. i don't think our nhs has ever been in such a challenging position as it is today. an incoming labour government, like the last government, like the last government, the last labour government, the last labour government, will tackle those challenges and ensure we have the support for public services but i recognise we won't be able to do as much as we want but that's the reality after 12 years of mismanagement by the conservatives. we have a question from another viewer, ralph, we keep hearing about those with the broadest shoulders should bear the burden. can anyone define this? how much does someone have to earn to be classified as someone with broad shoulders? would rachel reeves, labour, support what you are going to do which make

people pay the highest rate of tax from when they earn £125,000, would you support that? i from when they earn £125,000, would you support that?— you support that? i think it's reasonable _ you support that? i think it's reasonable to _ you support that? i think it's reasonable to ask _ you support that? i think it's reasonable to ask those - you support that? i think it's reasonable to ask those on i you support that? i think it's i reasonable to ask those on the highest incomes to pay a bit more in tax but my key priority would be to crack down on some of the loopholes we've got in the tax system. for example you can make britain your home but not pay taxes here and the non—dom tax status means 70,000 people who have made britain their home are not paying their fair share of tax in britain and that is costing us, this is costing us £3.2 billion a year, so labour would end that non—dom tax status to ensure that non—dom tax status to ensure that we are getting those tax revenues from everybody that makes britain their home. itithi’heztt revenues from everybody that makes britain their home.— revenues from everybody that makes britain their home. what ralph wants to know and — britain their home. what ralph wants to know and i'm _ britain their home. what ralph wants to know and i'm sure _ britain their home. what ralph wants to know and i'm sure other— britain their home. what ralph wants to know and i'm sure other viewers i to know and i'm sure other viewers do, who do you define as someone who should pay more tax? non—dom is, you've set out your policy, but that's a niche group of the population. what about a highly paid head teacher, some of them earning

£100,000, do they have broad shoulders? would they pay more tax under a labour government?- under a labour government? labour have no proposals _ under a labour government? labour have no proposals to _ under a labour government? labour have no proposals to increase - under a labour government? labour have no proposals to increase rates| have no proposals to increase rates of national insurance or income tax, in fact it's the tories who have been increasing tax on working people. we think if you get your income from tax and shares, there is a case for looking at how that is taxed because it's taxed at a lower rate than going out to work. there are so many loopholes in the system that means the system isn't fair and often those with the most resources are able to get out of paying their fair share of tax. look at the private equity industry, for example, private equity bosses say their income is capital gains and so pay 28 cent tax rather than a5% tax, that's not right and we would close that's not right and we would close that loophole. d0 that's not right and we would close that loophole-— that loophole. do you believe you would be able _ that loophole. do you believe you would be able to _ that loophole. do you believe you would be able to raise _ that loophole. do you believe you would be able to raise all - that loophole. do you believe you would be able to raise all the - that loophole. do you believe you would be able to raise all the tax| would be able to raise all the tax you need for all the public services you need for all the public services

you want from closing loopholes? i think there's an awful lot you can get out, the non—dom changes, those are some of the proposals that labour have put forward to close some of the gap in the public finances, but the point is and the difference between labour and the conservatives is that the tories keep coming back to working people and asking them to pay more and they do little to close these loopholes that mean some of the wealthiest people and businesses in society are still not paying their fair share and that's the change i want to see us why are you guaranteeing this morning that you would not put income tax up, is that what you are saying? i'm not going to write my manifesto for the labour party on this programme, but i've got no plans to increase income tax. in fact it's jeremy plans to increase income tax. in fact it'sjeremy hunt through his stealth taxes that is increasing income taxes because he is not willing or not able to tackle some of these loopholes that see some people in society not paying their fair share of tax and that's the

difference between whatjeremy hunt will be doing on thursday and what i will be doing on thursday and what i will be doing if i was chancellor of the exchequer. ii will be doing if i was chancellor of the exchequer.— the exchequer. if you were chancellor _ the exchequer. if you were chancellor what _ the exchequer. if you were chancellor what would - the exchequer. if you were chancellor what would you | the exchequer. if you were i chancellor what would you do the exchequer. if you were - chancellor what would you do about theissue chancellor what would you do about the issue of climate change? last week on this programme ed miliband said a labour government would pay compensation to countries that are being terribly affected already by environmental damage and those who haven't been big emitters in the past but who are now suffering. how much would you spend on that? there is already global _ much would you spend on that? there is already global agreement _ much would you spend on that? ties is already global agreement to help those countries that are most affected by climate change and that is right but the biggest contribution that the uk can make is to get in a plan our own things we can do here in britain to get to net zero as quickly as possible and that has a number of benefits. first of all it reduces the price of energy for british consumers because we know that renewable energy is the cheapest form. it boosts our energy security and makes us less reliant on putin and other dictatorial

regimes. through that investment we can create those good quality, well—paid secure jobs all across britain in carbon capture, and green hydrogen, in floating offshore wind, in green steel, jobs of the future paying good wages in former industrialised communities and in coastal communities, and it gets us to net zero and play our role in the global field to net zero and play our role in the globalfield in getting to net zero and play our role in the global field in getting to to net zero and play our role in the globalfield in getting to net to net zero and play our role in the global field in getting to net zero and passing on to our children and grandchildren a green and inhabitable planet, but it has the huge benefit of ensuring good qualityjobs here in britain. i want to seize those opportunities because some country in the world is going to be the global leader in these industries and it it can and should be britain. .,. industries and it it can and should be britain. .. , industries and it it can and should be britain. , ., ~' ,, be britain. rachel reeves, thank you for “oinint be britain. rachel reeves, thank you forioining us— be britain. rachel reeves, thank you forjoining us this _ be britain. rachel reeves, thank you forjoining us this morning, - be britain. rachel reeves, thank you forjoining us this morning, i'm - forjoining us this morning, i'm sure in the next weeks and months we'll talk more about the plans you are outlining their but thank you for being with us this weekend. i reckon every sunday is special — we get to talk about what's going on in the world,

but this sunday, every year, is a moving and sombre moment — the service of remembrance, live from the cenotaph, begins straight after the show. a familiarface, sophie raworth, is there for us this morning. good morning from the cenotaph and a very misty whitehall and what a morning it is going to be. 9,750 veterans — that's how many are expected to take part in the march past today, one of the biggest that we have seen in many years, and also the public, 10,000 people are expected to gather here in whitehall. they are arriving now, many have been waiting since seven o'clock this morning to make sure they can be here to take their places and watch the march past. i'm joined by a man who has been here many times and will be marching again today, terry bullingham, who is marching with blind veterans uk. terry, lovely to see you. it's particularly poignant for you, isn't it, because it's the a0th anniversary of the falklands war, in which you served.

yes. and i was on hms antrim, county—class destroyer, looking after humphrey, the embarked anti—submarine helicopter, and we were in san carlos water, 21st of may, protecting canberra as she started to disembark the troops. and we had four skyhawks did a low pass over us, bombed us, but they didn't go off, thank goodness, and at the same time preoccupied but on the flight deck, two argentinian mirage fighters came down, probably 500 knots, 50 feet, incredible sort of speed, and the last thing i actually saw was the star on the side of them. and the cannon shot in the water pointing at me, and i got shrapnel in my eyes and i've been totally blind ever since. what does it mean for you to be here today? it's an absolute privilege. the atmosphere, and of course the viewers aren't going to pick that up, but to actually be here is a privilege,

and hear big ben strike at 11, wonderful. and i think of lots of people from the falklands... and i'm from afghanistan and iraq, but mainly from the falklands. hms glamorgan, which was our sister ship, took her exocet in the hangar on the 12th ofjune, just before the end, and i lost six good friends there. and there are other fleets on which people died, and i met people from 2 para, 3 para, who were really involved, and had a comradeship. you come back here year after year, don't you, i think more than 30 years you have come. but particularly important to be here this year. yes, yes. i march with the blind veterans contingent. i'm proud to march with them. they gave me my life back, back in 1982, taught me to read braille, taught me to type, and men didn't type back in 1982.

and taught me to get around with a long cane. and without that training i would be up the creek without a paddle. so, always grateful to them. terry bullingham, thank you for talking to us this morning. thank you very much. one of the most important people at the ceremony later will be the chief of the defence staff, sir tony radakin, and i talked to him a little earlier on. admiral sir tony, thank you for coming in, this will be the first remembrance sunday that her majesty the queen won't be there. will it be different? it the queen won't be there. will it be different? , ., different? it will be a little different? it will be a little different but _ different? it will be a little different but much - different? it will be a little different but much of- different? it will be a little different but much of it. different? it will be a little different but much of it is| different? it will be a little i different but much of it is the same. this is an enormous moment for the nation every year. it involves the nation every year. it involves the whole nation, so clearly in london but also edinburgh, cardiff, belfast, all of our cities, our towns, our villages, all around the

globe, and it's a special moment where we pause, we reflect and i think it does have additional poignancy particularly with the loss of her manchester the queen. she represented duty and service but also that dignity of that wartime generation handles that they sacrificed for our freedom and there is the additional poignancy that once again we have war in europe but it's always a special day but especially today.— it's always a special day but es-eciall toda . �* , , . especially today. and her presence will be notably _ especially today. and her presence will be notably absent _ especially today. and her presence will be notably absent but - especially today. and her presence will be notably absent but of - especially today. and her presence | will be notably absent but of course many others of that generation, that wartime generation, are also passing awayjust because of the passage of time. do you think it becomes harder for people to remember? does it become harderfor people now for people to remember? does it become harder for people now to understand what the sacrifices really meant as we lose that generation?—

really meant as we lose that teneration? ., ., , ., , , generation? potentially it does, but ithink generation? potentially it does, but i think there — generation? potentially it does, but i think there has _ generation? potentially it does, but i think there has been _ generation? potentially it does, but i think there has been an _ generation? potentially it does, but i think there has been an enormous| i think there has been an enormous effort to educate. i love the programmes within schools, where they are taught what this really means. i think all of us have family stories and we know our own stories about our relatives that served, and then i also think it goes beyond the first world war and the second world war, we've got to acknowledge the sacrifice and the conflict that came afterwards, whether that was korea, whether that's iraq, afghanistan, northern ireland, there is a continual commitment and sacrifice in order to preserve our freedom, our self—determination, the values that we cherish. you our self-determination, the values that we cherish.— our self-determination, the values that we cherish. you mentioned there a ttoinan that we cherish. you mentioned there a poignancy about _ that we cherish. you mentioned there a poignancy about today's _ that we cherish. you mentioned there a poignancy about today's services i a poignancy about today's services because there is a game war in europe. it's not so long that you were here last time and we discussed how ukraine at that point was making a success in the north—east of the country, pushing back. we seen them retaking the city of kherson and we

can see some of the images of people responding as soldiers go in and liberate that city. what do you think this victory for ukraine means in terms of the war? ihie think this victory for ukraine means in terms of the war?— think this victory for ukraine means in terms of the war? we are seeing a continued failure _ in terms of the war? we are seeing a continued failure by _ in terms of the war? we are seeing a continued failure by russia. - in terms of the war? we are seeing a continued failure by russia. we - in terms of the war? we are seeing a continued failure by russia. we saw. continued failure by russia. we saw that at the outset. russia wanted to take the cities, it failed. russia wanted to subjugate ukraine, it's failed and it's failing dramatically stop russia wanted to weaken nato and nato is even stronger. if you come down to the tactical fight, we are seeing continued success by ukraine. when i was last on it was kharkiv and the ingenuity and determination of the ukrainian people to win their country back again and now you are seeing that in kherson and you will continue to see the strength and resolve of the ukrainian people to defeat russia and ourjob is to support ukraine and ourjob is to support ukraine and to support them politically, diplomatically, militarily. you can

see on the _ diplomatically, militarily. you can see on the faces _ diplomatically, militarily. you can see on the faces of _ diplomatically, militarily. you can see on the faces of people - diplomatically, militarily. you can see on the faces of people in - diplomatically, militarily. you can see on the faces of people in that j see on the faces of people in that city as their own troops arrive to liberate them just how much it means, but in terms of the progress of the war, is this a very significant turning point? does this change things? does this mean that russia is losing?— russia is losing? russia is losing sto . russia is losing? russia is losing stop russia _ russia is losing? russia is losing stop russia has _ russia is losing? russia is losing stop russia has been _ russia is losing? russia is losing stop russia has been losing - russia is losing? russia is losing j stop russia has been losing from russia is losing? russia is losing - stop russia has been losing from the very outset. i'm wary of turning point language. this is a messy, protracted conflict, and the likelihood is that it's going to continue to be a messy, protracted conflict, and so ukraine can take some tactical gains in kharkiv, it's a significant gain with kherson and all that kherson represents, but there will be ebbs and flows throughout this war. ii there will be ebbs and flows throughout this war. if ukraine has the momentum _ throughout this war. if ukraine has the momentum though, _ throughout this war. if ukraine has the momentum though, does - throughout this war. if ukraine has the momentum though, does that| the momentum though, does that potentially mean it's a moment where with that momentum they could go to

the negotiating table, your opposite number in the states has made that case, we understand, that actually the ukrainians should now be thinking about negotiating. do you agree with that? i think these are decisions for president zelensky. we have been clear that we support ukraine. it is ukraine that has been invaded and is fighting for its freedom. we are on remembrance day and we have a country in europe that has been illegally invaded and we have a population fighting like crazy to get their nation back again. and that's why we've got to be respectful and acknowledge that it is president zelensky who is going to determine for his nation when is the right negotiating point. does that mean there _ the right negotiating point. does that mean there is _ the right negotiating point. does that mean there is some - the right negotiating point. does that mean there is some suggestion of that from the united states up to the side. are you saying from the uk that there is no push and no suggestion that ukraine should go to

the table? shill suggestion that ukraine should go to the table? �* ., the table? all i am saying from the uk's toint the table? all i am saying from the uk's point of _ the table? all i am saying from the uk's point of view _ the table? all i am saying from the uk's point of view is _ the table? all i am saying from the uk's point of view is that _ the table? all i am saying from the uk's point of view is that there - the table? all i am saying from the uk's point of view is that there is i uk's point of view is that there is no change with kherson. the uk has always supported president zelensky. what steps do you think vladimir putin might take? 0ne what steps do you think vladimir putin might take? one of the problems for the west is that he is an unpredictable leader. there has been a lot of perhaps loose talk about dangling a nuclear threat. what other steps could he take and what other steps do you think he might take now? i what other steps do you think he might take now?— what other steps do you think he might take now? i think he is under tressure. might take now? i think he is under pressure- i— might take now? i think he is under pressure. i think _ might take now? i think he is under pressure. i think you _ might take now? i think he is under pressure. i think you are _ might take now? i think he is under pressure. i think you are seeing - pressure. i think you are seeing some desperate moves with the mobilisation. but i also think he is rational. you saw in those early days, the ambition to take the cities, he was defeated and he dropped back. the ambition to take most of the territory of ukraine. he was defeated and he dropped back. he then reoriented his forces. you saw then reoriented his forces. you saw the ambition to annex the various

regions and that failed. he took kherson as a provincial capital and that has failed. russia still behaves in a rational way. part of the challenge _ behaves in a rational way. part of the challenge for— behaves in a rational way. part of the challenge for russia - behaves in a rational way. part of the challenge for russia and - behaves in a rational way. part of the challenge for russia and part| behaves in a rational way. part of i the challenge for russia and part of the challenge for russia and part of the reason it has gone so wrong is, as you alluded to, that solid support from the west including the uk. in terms of the uk's capabilities to support countries like ukraine and take action on the world stage, there is pressure on budgets. we have heard from the chancellor how difficult things might be. i understand you and the defence secretary went to see the prime minister and chancellor this week to talk about money. what do you need, and if you do not get rises in terms of inflation, what would that mean for our capability around the world? ihie would that mean for our capability around the world?— would that mean for our capability around the world? we need continued investment and _ around the world? we need continued investment and that's _ around the world? we need continued investment and that's continued - investment and that's continued investment and that's continued investment over the long term. i welcome the conversations we can have with the prime minister and

chancellor and accompanying the defence secretary. these are incredibly serious times. they are serious economic times but they are also serious security times with a war in europe. and both of those have to be dealt with. when you look at the security aspect, these are long—term threats and they require long—term threats and they require long term investment. it long-term threats and they require long term investment.— long-term threats and they require long term investment. it sounds like ou are long term investment. it sounds like you are quite — long term investment. it sounds like you are quite carefully _ long term investment. it sounds like you are quite carefully trying - long term investment. it sounds like you are quite carefully trying to - you are quite carefully trying to save the long term budgets for the mod not be cut. for save the long term budgets for the mod not be cut.— save the long term budgets for the mod not be cut. for the ambition of the government _ mod not be cut. for the ambition of the government to _ mod not be cut. for the ambition of the government to be _ mod not be cut. for the ambition of the government to be met, - mod not be cut. for the ambition of the government to be met, we - mod not be cut. for the ambition ofj the government to be met, we need mod not be cut. for the ambition of. the government to be met, we need to maintain that investment. and the defence secretary has been very clear about that and the government has been very clear about its own ambition to respond to the threats that are out there and to have a stronger defence. i that are out there and to have a stronger defence.— that are out there and to have a stronger defence. i want to ask you about something _ stronger defence. i want to ask you about something the _ stronger defence. i want to ask you about something the defence - about something the defence secretary talked about in the commons this week. he revealed a british raf plane on patrol over the

black sea in september was interacted with, whatever that really means, by russian aircraft. he said a russian aircraft released a missile in the vicinity of a british plane. you may not be able to tell us very much but that sounds like something very serious so can you tell us what happened? i thrill you tell us what happened? i will not to you tell us what happened? i will rrot go into _ you tell us what happened? i will not go into the _ you tell us what happened? i will not go into the detail _ you tell us what happened? i will not go into the detail of - you tell us what happened? ihh ii. not go into the detail of that, but again, it is a reflection that when we have this close interaction between russia and nato forces, we have to maintain our professionalism. we have to maintain our commitment to fulfil our task, but to avoid miscalculations. and both of us have to have the right communication between our nations to ensure we don't have miscalculations. and there was a potential risk of a miscalculation in that scenario and fortunately it

was averted. these cases are aberrant, they are not our values. they are not the values we are reflecting on remembrance day, and the sacrifices and integrity of those that have gone before us. —— these cases are abhorrent. and there is no place for that abuse in our services and we have to root it out, we have to be really clear with our leadership, we have to give the confidence to those that are abused or do feel threatened or concerned that we will deal with that and they will have the confidence to report it. we have done a whole series of measures. we have strengthened our relationship with our networks to try to understand better what are some of the things that have gone on in the past. we are just introducing a zero tolerance, in the same way we have for drugs. if you are caught taking drugs, you are kicked out of the armed forces. if you are caught

in any kind of situation where you have abused somebody and there is a sexual nature to that, we will kick you out, and that is the right response. but we have recognised that we have to deal with this because these are people impugning our values and the things we stand for and the things that our nation expects of us. 5ir for and the things that our nation exoects of us-_ for and the things that our nation expects of us. sir tony, thank you for coming — expects of us. sir tony, thank you for coming in _ expects of us. sir tony, thank you for coming in again _ expects of us. sir tony, thank you for coming in again and _ expects of us. sir tony, thank you for coming in again and we - expects of us. sir tony, thank you for coming in again and we hope i expects of us. sir tony, thank you i for coming in again and we hope the service later today goes well. thank ou. chief service later today goes well. thank you- chief of — service later today goes well. thank you. chief of the _ service later today goes well. thank you. chief of the defence _ service later today goes well. thank you. chief of the defence staff - service later today goes well. thank you. chief of the defence staff tony | you. chief of the defence staff tony rabkin in the _ you. chief of the defence staff tony rabkin in the studio _ you. chief of the defence staff tony rabkin in the studio earlier. - at 10.15 we'lljoin the remembrance service live at the cenotaph, but before that let's look back at what we heard today, from the chancellor, jeremy hunt. we are going to see everyone paying more tax. spending cuts, but i think it's very important to say that we are a resilient country. and we are also a compassionate country. we will make sure we protect the most vulnerable.

that might be the headline in some newspapers tomorrow. we've heard from both the chancellor and the shadow chancellor this morning. pauljohnson, do you think the labour position is credible and does it add up? the labour position is credible and does it add u . ? , ., , it add up? the first really encouraging _ it add up? the first really encouraging thing - it add up? the first really encouraging thing is - it add up? the first really encouraging thing is that| it add up? the first really i encouraging thing is that the recognition that there are constraints on what labour can do and there is not whatever spending they want and taxes will rise if they want and taxes will rise if they want and taxes will rise if they want to increase spending and everything won't happen immediately. there is a recognition of constraints, ratheras there is a recognition of constraints, rather asjeremy hunt was saying. the thing i was less convinced by what is the indication at all that can be paid for by closing loopholes and tax on corporations and so on. yes, there are definitely things you can do to make the tax system better and fairer by changing things like capital gains tax, the taxing of land, dividends and housing and all those things, but you can't close the whole hole like that. you can't do itjust by tax corporates. we are

getting corporation tax to its highest level in history in this country. highest level in history in this count . , , ,, highest level in history in this count . ,, ,, ., highest level in history in this count. ,, ,, ., country. there is pressure on labour to sell country. there is pressure on labour to spell out — country. there is pressure on labour to spell out whether _ country. there is pressure on labour to spell out whether that _ country. there is pressure on labour to spell out whether that is - to spell out whether that is realistic. roula khalaf, you are listening with interest at what sir tony had to say about ukraine. what do you have to say on that? i was interested — do you have to say on that? i was interested in _ do you have to say on that? i was interested in what _ do you have to say on that? i was interested in what you _ do you have to say on that? i was interested in what you said - do you have to say on that? i —" interested in what you said about a messy and protracted conflict. i'm starting to wonder, given what he said about all the victories, and i think taking her sixth is a milestone and whether the ukrainians are going to win, you are starting to hear voices from the west saying perhaps it's time for negotiation. —— the taking of kherson. i don't see what room there is today for negotiation. see what room there is today for negotiation-— negotiation. we'll see how that involves. simon, _ negotiation. we'll see how that involves. simon, it— negotiation. we'll see how that involves. simon, it has- negotiation. we'll see how that involves. simon, it has been i negotiation. we'll see how that i involves. simon, it has been great to have you in the studio this morning. you as a historian have a big historical project and a tv programme called the history of now. it ponders the notion that actually

a lot of— it ponders the notion that actually a lot of the great things, be it what — a lot of the great things, be it what we — a lot of the great things, be it what we were talking about earlier, how raw _ what we were talking about earlier, how raw can — what we were talking about earlier, how raw can capitalism be without a social— how raw can capitalism be without a social conscience and how will it help _ social conscience and how will it help democracy live, civil rights. this in— help democracy live, civil rights. this in america has been roe—vember, as predicted _ this in america has been roe—vember, as predicted. the notion that second wave feminism had won was reversed by the _ wave feminism had won was reversed by the supreme court. things that happened — by the supreme court. things that happened during my lifetime, and how the arts— happened during my lifetime, and how the arts and _ happened during my lifetime, and how the arts and culture, and we have been _ the arts and culture, and we have been talking politics, as is your job. _ been talking politics, as is your job, laura, _ been talking politics, as is your job, laura, but| been talking politics, as is your job, laura, but i want to say, especially— job, laura, but i want to say, especially in light of cuts, the arts are — especially in light of cuts, the arts are not a luxury. we featured george _ arts are not a luxury. we featured george orwell, james morgan, ai weiwei. _ george orwell, james morgan, ai weiwei, and they change minds. poets can't stop— weiwei, and they change minds. poets can't stop tax but they can change history— can't stop tax but they can change history and — can't stop tax but they can change history and that's what the series is about — history and that's what the series is about -- _ history and that's what the series is about. —— james baldwin. history and that's what the series is about. -- james baldwin. that's on bbc two _ is about. -- james baldwin. that's on bbc two from _

is about. -- james baldwin. that's on bbc two from sunday - is about. -- james baldwin. that's on bbc two from sunday the - is about. -- james baldwin. that's on bbc two from sunday the 27th | is about. -- james baldwin. that's i on bbc two from sunday the 27th of november. thank you to the three of you for being here this morning and helping us through some chunky debates and grappling with big issues. now, we know one thing — we are all going to be paying more tax. and the public services millions rely on are going to be hard—pressed. we're seeing the backdrop for the next election emerge — an argument over how to make the best of a bad situation for the economy, maybe not a struggle for inspiration, or hearts and minds. we will see. as ever you can catch up on anything you've missed on iplayer later. but let's call time for now on those political battles, and as i promised you we'd do on the show, on occasion, we'll bring you something unashamedly beautiful to savour. the last post always signifies the end of the day. today, on remembrance sunday, it has a special resonance, so let's hear an incredible version just for you today. so just before we cross to the cenotaph for the remembrance sunday service,

i'm delighted to leave you with pianist alexis ffrench and trumpeter aaron akugbo. i'll see you next week, and goodbye. arrangement of last post

king charles iii will lead the nation in honouring those who lost their lives at war in his first remembrance sunday service as sovereign.the royal family will lay wreaths at the cenotaph and the uk will fall silent at 11 o'clock this morning as part of the commemorations. daniela relph reports. there is so much that is familiar about remembrance sunday — the rhythm of the day unchanged for decades. but this year, as the final preparations are made, there will be one significant difference. for nearly all of her 70 years on the throne, queen elizabeth ii was at the cenotaph on remembrance sunday, honouring service and sacrifice. this year, after her death, she will be one of those we remember today. later this morning, for the first time as monarch, the king will lay a wreath here at the cenotaph. it is a new design that will incorporate his racing colours

of scarlet, purple and gold — a tradition set by his