tv Newsday BBC News November 15, 2022 11:00pm-11:30pm GMT
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welcome to newsday. i'm karishma vaswani reporting live from bali on day two of the 620 as events in europe are overshadowing the summit. poland is putting some of its military on heightened alert after two people were killed by an explosion near the border with ukraine. the explosion in poland happened during a wave of russian missile attacks on ukraine's energy system. but moscow has hit back at reports it was responsible for the explosion inside poland, calling them a provocation aimed at escalation. eu leaders attending the 620
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summit here in bali are likely to meet in the coming hours to discuss the latest developments. the explosion happened during a wave of russian mikhail —— missile attacks. this isn't bbc news. it's newsday. —— this is. hello and welcome to the programme. it's seven in the morning here in bali and the 620 summit is getting under way for its second day. the first day was dominated by conversations around the war in ukraine, and today, leaders will wake up to more discussions about that as well. there are reports that two people in poland i have been killed by missiles. this comes as russian forces have launched missile
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strikes, targeting power stations in one of the biggest coordinated attacks by the russians since the start of the conflict. ukraine's public broadcaster reported that the strikes had targeted kyiv and the wider region, as well as kharkiv, poltava, mykolaiv, dnipro, lviv, cherkassy, 0desa and chernihiv. we start from this report from our internationaljeremy bowen. in the hours after the missiles hit, it wasn't clear whether the deadly eventsjust inside the polish border were a deliberate attack or something else. perhaps a targeting error or a missile malfunction. russian�*s defence ministry denied any involvement, calling it a deliberate provocation aimed at escalation.
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poland's national security council went into emergency session. the poles are coordinating with nato. working out exactly what happened is vital. the north atlantic treaty says an attack on one member is an attack on the whole alliance. translation: because of the seriousness of the situation i that we're dealing with, the president has finished a conversation with the nato secretary—general. we are verifying the circumstances under which we might invoke article four. it follows a day of missile attacks on ukraine, one of the biggest since the war began. there were strikes across the country — this was kyiv. most of ukraine's major cities were hit. attacking the infrastructure of the city is a common tactic in war, trying to pressure a government by making the lives of civilians hard. translation: i am against the war i
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and people have got to remember that you can't give life back at those children will never see their parents again. those children who will never see their parents again. the children who will never be born. a generation is being lost. ukraine's president zelensky is calling for action. translation: this is a russian attack on collective _ security and a very i significant escalation. we must say act. we must act. free people will not be broken by terror~ _ ukraine's president said it wouldn't work. ukraine's president zelensky called for action. this evening in kyiv, emergency services were still at work. what happened here and across the country and what seems to have been a deadly leakage of the war into poland amounts to a challenge
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of the highest order for western leaders. they need exact details and, if necessary, an appropriate response. the attacks on ukraine come a day after president zelensky went to kherson to celebrate its recapture. he declared that defeat here was the beginning of the end for russia in ukraine. the triumphant visit to kherson was followed by severe diplomatic condemnation of russia at the 620 meeting. russia's answer, more likely by design than coincidence, was the day of missile strikes. jeremy bowen, bbc news, 0desa. i want to take you to poland now and hear from our poland, i want to take you to poland now and hearfrom our poland, conversation —— correspondent. the bbc�*s danjohnson is in krakow and had this to say about the reports of missiles landing in poland. when i was reporting here at the beginning of the conflict through the early weeks during march, particularly, people in this city and closer to the uk and border were really worried about that conflict spilling over. either deliberately or accidentally. we sold more poles
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preparing for in case there were attacks that came onto their territory. we saw people packing their cars, packing their close, ready to flee further west. but this will cause a serious concern because whatever is behind this, whatever�*s caused it, whatever sort of accident has occurred here, we set assume it means there would be a fragment of missile. that will confirm people's worst fears. the conflict in ukraine has the potential to spill over and cause issues here. this is very close to the spot where joe cause issues here. this is very close to the spot wherejoe biden landed at the beginning of april in air force one. that was a show of support for the polish people, for people right across eastern europe who are concerned at the time. a show of support for nato. the message that nato would be with
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these nations that border ukraine should the conflict to spill out of that country. now, these reports are out what has has exactly what has happened, what has caused this loss of but it cause major to and cities around poland, i cities around 2 poland, i cit this round 2 poland, i cit this is 1nd 2 poland, i cit this is 1nd “a; sf patents; but this is a 111915; that. sf patents; but this is a mass. that. a: j —— krakov. sf pstsns; but this is s msss inst. is: ,; —— krakov. it will concern people —— krakov. it does say it has the potential to spill over and cause damage and loss of life, in poland, a native country. that was dan johnson. that was danjohnson. ijust that was danjohnson. i just want to bring you some news that was dan johnson. i just want to bring you some news that we're getting from the united states. the official read from presidentjoe biden's call with the polish leader, where he expressed deep concern condolences earlier this evening.
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president duda described the explosion near the border and president biden has offered full support with poland's investigation. the two leaders said they and their teams should remind and close touch —— remain in close touch. those comments coming in from the us side. lots we still don't know yet, and lots of information that needs to be verified. for now... the bbc�*s steve rosenberg is in moscow. the message from moscow is one big denial, which is the normal reaction you get from the russian authorities whenever they accused of something. so, tonight, the defence ministry issued a short statement in which it claims that report of alleged russian missiles falling in poland was a deliberate provocation aimed at escalation. the statement also
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claims that there would be no strikes using russian weapons on targets near the ukrainian polish border. although of course we know there were the —— was this massive russian debarment today across ukraine. at times like this, at times of crisis — and this is a dangerous moment — what you need are channels of communication between the opposing sides. you need one side to pick up the phone and talk to the other. we know relations are bad between russia and the west, but these channels of communication do exist, and only yesterday, russia's spy exist, and only yesterday, russia's spy chief met his us counterpart, the cia director, for talks. reportedly, they talked about how to avoid nuclear escalation here in the ukraine war. so, you would expect
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that these kind of moments, conversations would be had. you would hope so. between russia and the west to find out what actually happened. and to avoid further escalation. avoiding forfurther avoiding for further escalation, as steve rosenberg just put it. very much i imagine the sentiment here at the 620 summit. it's just gone about seven o'clock in the morning here, but let's bring in... let's speak now to melinda haring, who's deputy director of the atlantic council, an expert on russia and ukraine. she joins us from washington. thanks so much forjoining us on the programme. just a start by saying, so much we don't know yet, so much more information we do need to verify. but what's your sense of what happened today?- verify. but what's your sense of what happened today? thanks for havin: what happened today? thanks for having me- _ what happened today? thanks for having me- we — what happened today? thanks for having me. we don't _ what happened today? thanks for having me. we don't know. - what happened today? thanks for having me. we don't know. so, . having me. we don't know. so, there's a couple different gases going around. one is that the
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russians intentionally hit poland, which would be an enormous deal, or the second guess is that the russians overshot third guess is the ukrainians' air defence system shutdown russian missile. we don't know, and i think the chief of nato �*s right to say let's hold our horses and wait until the investigation team is done. we're already hearing _ investigation team is done. we're already hearing comments - investigation team is done. we're already hearing comments from l already hearing comments from various officials — the us president speaking to his polish counterpart, and it seems this is a period of fact—finding and internation gathering. but here in bali, we are also hearing that charles michelle says that he will propose a coordination meeting so that they can have further discussions. 50. i
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can have further discussions. so, i hate to be — can have further discussions. so, i hate to be rude, _ can have further discussions. so, i hate to be rude, but _ can have further discussions. so, i hate to be rude, but the _ can have further discussions. so, i hate to be rude, but the 620 - can have further discussions. srr, i hate to be rude, but the 620 is really irrelevant, and we should be calling at the 619 because the russians have left. the 6 28 is focused on food and energy security. it's not a military organisation. the big conversation will happen at nato tomorrow. we note in that sitters will get together under article four, which is the agreement to consult. when the polls have requested this meeting, that's the meaning i'm watching. the conversations in bali arejust meaning i'm watching. the conversations in bali are just to make people feel good. there's nothing that's going to be decided there. . ., �* , nothing that's going to be decided there. . ., �*, . ., , there. yeah, that's certainly the impression _ there. yeah, that's certainly the impression that _ there. yeah, that's certainly the impression that was _ there. yeah, that's certainly the impression that was given - there. yeah, that's certainly the - impression that was given yesterday when the conflict in ukraine was the backdrop for a lot of the global conversations here. but totally understanding the fact that we have
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to be looking at the issue at hand, and just in terms of the response going forward, what are you expecting? i going forward, what are you meeting?— going forward, what are you exectin? ~ , ,., , expecting? i think this is a wake-up call to eumpe _ expecting? i think this is a wake-up call to europe because _ expecting? i think this is a wake-up call to europe because missiles- expecting? i think this is a wake-up call to europe because missilesjustj call to europe because missilesjust hit europe and they hit nato territory. so, ithink hit europe and they hit nato territory. so, i think we're likely to see more support for ukraine in terms of air defence systems and may be aeroplanes. europe has been resisting the united states has been resisting the united states has been resisting sending planes for months and months and months, so hopefully this will be a wake—up call in washington and poland and other countries will finally agree to send the systems. but ukraine is very vulnerable. it's electrical grid is vulnerable. it's electrical grid is vulnerable to russian rockets and it needs air defence systems very badly, and that's hopefully what the message the western world will take away from what happened today. it’s away from what happened today. it's to be expected, but russian officials have denied this. so much we still don't know yet, but when
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you look at the response from moscow, what do you think will happen in the days to come? the hours to come, as we get more information about this? it depends on who's information about this? it depends on wh0's at — information about this? it depends on who's at fault. _ information about this? it depends on who's at fault. was _ information about this? it depends on who's at fault. was it a - information about this? it depends on who's at fault. was it a mistake j on who's at fault. was it a mistake or was it intentional? was that russia's or was it the ukrainian air defence system? we need to know these before we can assess the response. in any case, russia's going to be told to knock it off, to step down and there will be enormous consequences if they strike nato. president biden was right to reaffirm the united states has nato's back. we stand by article 5, which says an attack on one nato country as an attack on us all. this is not a magic bullet, there is no secret sauce here. it is a political decision. if a nato country is hit, all of the nato members have to sit down and agree to defend the country. but that's ironclad, it's
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rock—solid. the problem now is ukraine is not a member of nato and it's not protected.— it's not protected. melinda herring, deu it's not protected. melinda herring, deputy director— it's not protected. melinda herring, deputy director at _ it's not protected. melinda herring, deputy director at the _ it's not protected. melinda herring, deputy director at the atlantic - deputy director at the atlantic capital, thank you so much for your time. i want to take you know to our us correspondent, david willis, who's been listening into all of this. he is in washington enjoins us from there. i know we've just seen some of those comments coming out from that official readout between joe biden and his polish counterpart. 6et us a sense for what the priorities our. you counterpart. get us a sense for what the priorities our.— the priorities our. you mentioned that readout _ the priorities our. you mentioned that readout just _ the priorities our. you mentioned that readoutjust a _ the priorities our. you mentioned that readoutjust a short - the priorities our. you mentioned that readoutjust a short while . the priorities our. you mentioned l that readoutjust a short while ago. just to reiterate the key parts — it's not very long, but this is an account from the white house of the conversation that president biden, who is still in bali for the 620
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summit had with the polish president duda on the phone. it says that president duda described poland's on —— ongoing assessment of the explosions that took place near the border with ukraine, president biden offered full us support for and assistance with poland's investigation. the united states responded very cautiously, adopting a wait and see approach, wanting to corroborate reports that russian missiles landed in poland. a pentagon spokesman said earlier that officials will determine what happened and what the appropriate next steps will be in due course. a key part of this, and you reflected this already in the programme, is intent, of course. the state
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department has said that that will be a key factor as far as the united states is concerned in determining the next steps in this situation. kurt volker, a former us special envoy for ukraine, told the bbc it was very important to establish whether any mess illustrate on polish territory have been accidental or intentional —— any missile strike. he said the us should seek a clear explanation from russia and if a missile had gone astray, then a step should be taken to make sure that this wouldn't happen again. there was of course enormous potential for mistakes, given the vast number of russian missiles that rained down on electricity grids in ukraine today. david willis, thanks so much for giving us that sense of what's happening and washington. how
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closely the us is watching this. everybody watching these developments very closely, particularly out here in bali. they were meant to talk about the digital economy today and heading out towards a mangrove jungle, economy today and heading out towards a mangrovejungle, but economy today and heading out towards a mangrove jungle, but i imagine that the focus will have shifted dramatically. to get a sense of how asian leaders might be reacting, i want to bring in simon baptist now from the and, in intelligence use it —— economist intelligence use it —— economist intelligence unit. this puts countries out here in a difficult position. we've seen these media reports of a draught communique circulating, western country trying to get harsh language in there. there was some initial resistance. do you think this changes things? it certainly is a development that the original powers like india and
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indonesia welcome. they would really just rather this whole situation goes away. asian countries are very nationalistic and there's not a lot of history in this region of countries compromising on national interest goals to meet multilateral objectives. while india and indonesia, and personable, would like to be more powerful and like the ideas of themselves, but they don't actually have a clear objective about what they would like to achieve with their power and they're not willing to address some of the compromises, the challenges that have come alongside being a global power. you'll see in indonesia, they're talking a lot about the importance of dialogue and trying to keep conversations going. that's useful and better than in those conversations not happening, but we haven't really seen any evidence that indonesia is putting itself on the line in any way to try
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and encourage russia to change its behaviour. asia's approach so far has been to hope that europe and the us will deal with the situation, go softly on sanctions and take different approaches more on board with sanctions. places like indonesia, much less on board. asia also taking advantage of the economic opportunities that the war has provided. india ramping up its purchases of russian energy. even if it's got a medium to long—term goal of reducing its reliance on russian military hardware because russia's behaviour means it is getting more and more challenging and risky for countries like india to be reliant on russian military in the future.
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yeah, simon, just briefly, this really does show the fragmentation of the international community. do you think it puts more pressure on beijing perhaps to take a firmer stance on russia or is that unlikely? at stance on russia or is that unlikely?— stance on russia or is that unlikel ? �* ., ,, ., stance on russia or is that unlikel ? �* ., ,, . , unlikely? at the moment, russia is one of china's _ unlikely? at the moment, russia is one of china's few _ unlikely? at the moment, russia is one of china's few reliable - unlikely? at the moment, russia is one of china's few reliable friends l one of china's few reliable friends in the international scene. friend is a bit of a strong word. it's more an alliance of convenience between the two. where we have seen common ground at the moment is on the issue of nuclear weapons. that's kind of been the fiddly or the prism through which everyone has been able to pretend there's some unity on this issue. with china saying there shouldn't be the use of weapons, and india arguing that now is not the time for war. i'm sure everyone can agree with that, but it doesn't have agree with that, but it doesn't have a lot of teeth. the 620 was
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conceived originally as an economic thinking community. it's more often a political gathering of the biggest economies, but china is certainly not going to reduce its support for russia because it's one of the friends of scott.— russia because it's one of the friends of scott. indeed. simon ba tist, friends of scott. indeed. simon baptist. chief _ friends of scott. indeed. simon baptist, chief economist - friends of scott. indeed. simon baptist, chief economist at - friends of scott. indeed. simon baptist, chief economist at the | baptist, chief economist at the economist intelligence unit, thanks forjoining us on the programme. let's move on now and bring in the european security specialist, the president of the chicago council on public affairs under president 0bama. kurt volker told us there may have been an accident but we need to
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hear russia say that. what explanations you think might be? it's either an accident or deliberate. it's if it's an accident, we have to figure out whether the includes the possibility whether the includes the possibility whether that was a missile trying to intercept the russian missiles, close to 100 of which were being targeted on ukraine. not only on infrastructure, but civilians throughout the country, and it's possible that a ukrainian missile either misfired or fragments landed on polish territory. so, the key here is to really determine what happened, and we need to take our time to make sure that we understand what happened in. there is a big difference between a deliberate attack and a mistake in the sense that a deliberate attack, under nato rules and under nato practice, will
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lead to the possibility of invoking article 5, which is the article that says and —— an armed attack against one is against all. even then, we need to have a discussion which will start taking place tomorrow morning at nato, about both the facts and how to respond. this is not an issue just for poland, this is an issue for all of the nato allies together to decide what happened and how best to decide what happened and how best to respond. to decide what happened and how best to resond. ., to decide what happened and how best to resond. . ., , to decide what happened and how best to resond. . .,, i. to respond. indeed, and as you point out, the to respond. indeed, and as you point out. they had — to respond. indeed, and as you point out, they had that _ to respond. indeed, and as you point out, they had that discussion - to respond. indeed, and as you point out, they had that discussion comingj out, they had that discussion coming up. but we've already heard from poland talking about invoking article four. if you could just explain the difference between that and the consequences of article 5 in terms of the escalation involved in that. �* . terms of the escalation involved in that, �* . ., terms of the escalation involved in that. ~ . ., , terms of the escalation involved in that. ~ . ., ., . that. so, article for is an article in which one _ that. so, article for is an article in which one country _ that. so, article for is an article in which one country that - that. so, article for is an article in which one country that feels i
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in which one country that feels threatened by... 0r its independence or sovereignty being threatened, can ask for a consultation with its other allies, and that's exactly what is going to take place. 0ne country can decide to do it, poland, in this case, save we feel threatened. the action that comes as the consultation rather than anything else. article 5 says in an armed attack against one is an armed attack against all, that would be invoked by all members. there have to be a consensus that this was indeed an armed attack, and as a result, all agree to regard it as an attack against them, and then they would decide how to respond. what the real difference is... i’m would decide how to respond. what the real difference is. . ._ the real difference is... i'm so sor ,i the real difference is... i'm so sorry. i have _ the real difference is... i'm so sorry, i have to _ the real difference is... i'm so sorry, i have to jump - the real difference is... i'm so sorry, i have to jump in - the real difference is... i'm so sorry, i have to jump in as - the real difference is... i'm so l sorry, i have to jump in as we're coming up to the end. i really value
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your thoughts, thank you forjoining us, ivo daalder. that brings us to the end of this hour of news dave, but do stay with bbc news. —— newsday. hello there. the week's rain so far has resulted in several flood warnings being issued, and there's more rain to come. just an idea of what we've had in the past 2a hours, the moors in the southwest, 75, which is three inches of rain. and as the rest of the week progresses, the rainfall continued to pile up. so, with another low pressure rolling in, we could see another 30—110 millimetres in places. by the end of the week, an excess of 80—90 may well have fallen across the north east of scotland. now, this is the next area of low pressure coming in with its strong winds pushing rain across many parts
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through the coming night and into thursday. but for what's left of this night, that rain stack across the northern isles with a gale force wind blowing. elsewhere, the showers tending to fade back to the coast, a little cool inland with a touch of grass frost around first thing, the odd pocket of mist and fog. but it does look like a drier day for many. yes, there'll still be a few heavy showers around, even the odd rumble of thunder, and that rain and wind across shetland. and then later in the day, the next batch of wet and windy weather's arriving in the southwest. but in between, its a little cooler than we've been used to, but there'll be some drier, brighter weather. however, those winds will be up to gale force, if not severe gale force across shetland for much of the day and indeed into thursday as well. and indeed, into thursday as well. and the wind gusts start to pick up in the south with this area of low pressure during the coming evening. and overnight, 60—mile—an—hour gusts potentially in a few exposed places, another 30—110 millimetres of rain.
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then it'll work its way northwards through the night. chilly again in north western parts of scotland where the skies stay clear. but the rain is likely to arrive here as we go into thursday as well, swirling around that area of low pressure with its strong winds, perhaps a little brighter, drier, with a few showers to the south later and still some very strong winds for shetland. you can see the tightly packed isobars here, even into friday, by which stage that low pressure starting to migrate out into the north sea, but still quite a lot of rain around that area even by friday, it might be that further south and west, we see somewhat drier weather, just a few showers around on that breeze coming down from the north and the west. but it does mean, therefore, that it'll be a chilly night with a widespread ground frost as we start saturday morning. as we start saturday morning, but there's more rain on the way. the warnings are online.
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this is bbc news. the headlines... we wa nt we want to be broadcasting our usual paper review at this time because of the breaking news story this evening, for the first time in ukrainian conflict, a russian missile is said by us intelligence to have landed in territory under nato protection — in poland. but the report is being strongly contested — especially by moscow — which says no russian missile has landed in poland.
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