tv Newsday BBC News November 16, 2022 12:00am-12:30am GMT
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hello, welcome to newsday. i'm karishma vaswani in bali. at the second day of the 620 summit. events in europe threatened to over toto this event. poland is putting some of its military on heightened alert after two people were killed by an explosion near the border with ukraine. —— overshadow. the explosion in poland happened during a wave of russian missile attacks on ukraine's energy system. but moscow has hit back at reports it was responsible for the explosion inside poland, calling them a provocation aimed at escalation. eu leaders attending the 620 summit here in bali are likely to meet in
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the coming hours to discuss the latest developments. this is bbc news. it's newsday. hello and welcome to the programme from here in bali, where the annual 620 summit is continuing. we saw the first day of discussions very much against the backdrop of the war in ukraine. that continues to be the top agenda here today as leaders wake up to the news that's coming overnight. i want to bring in some breaking news that's coming from the polish ministry. poland's foreign ministry. poland's foreign ministry says a russian—made missile that denies territory at 1540 local time, killing two people in the village of
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przewodow. the ministry spokesperson has added the ambassador to poland has been summoned to give him what he thought immediately details about the incidents. both scientists have used russian—made ammunition. —— both sides. we're still gathering information about exactly what happened, and it will be a big topic as it gets under way today. what is important is the polish president speaking in the past few minutes has said he does think it was a one—off incident and it won't happen again. but poland would be likely to trigger article 4 of nato tomorrow. all this comes as russian forces have launched waves of missile strikes across a wide area of ukraine,
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targeting power stations in one of the biggest coordinated attacks by the russians since the start of the conflict. ukraine's public broadcaster reported that the strikes had targeted kyiv and the wider region, as well as kharkiv, poltava, mykolaiv, dnipro, lviv, cherkassy, 0desa and chernihiv. the strikes follow russia's retreat from kherson and the west bank of the dnipro river last week. in a moment, we'll be hearing from our correspondent in russia, plus we'll hear how this is playing out at the 620 summit here in bali. we start with this report by our international editorjeremy bowen, who's in 0desa in southern ukraine. in the hours after the missiles hit, it wasn't clear whether the deadly events just inside the polish border were a deliberate attack or something else. perhaps a targeting error or a missile malfunction. russian�*s defence ministry denied any involvement, calling it a deliberate provocation aimed at escalation. poland's national security council went into emergency session.
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the poles are coordinating with nato. working out exactly what happened is vital. the north atlantic treaty says an attack on one member is an attack on the whole alliance. translation: because of the seriousness of the situation i that we're dealing with, the president has finished a conversation with the nato secretary—general. we are verifying the circumstances under which we might invoke article four. it follows a day of missile attacks on ukraine, one of the biggest since the war began. there were strikes across the country — this was kyiv. most of ukraine's major cities were hit. attacking the infrastructure of the city is a common tactic in war, trying to pressure a government by making the lives of civilians hard. translation: | am against| the war and people have got to remember that you can't give life back. those children who will never
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see their parents again. the children who will never be born. a generation is being lost. ukraine's president zelensky is calling for action. translation: this is a russian attack on collective security - and a very significant escalation. _ we must act. i want to say now to our polish brothers and sisters, - we stand with you. free people will not| be broken by terror. ukraine's president said it wouldn't work. ukraine's president zelensky called for action. this evening in kyiv, emergency services were still at work. what happened here and across the country and what seems to have been a deadly leakage of the war into poland amounts to a challenge of the highest order for western leaders. the attacks on ukraine come a day after president zelensky went to kherson to celebrate its recapture. he declared that defeat here
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was the beginning of the end for russia in ukraine. the triumphant visit to kherson was followed by severe diplomatic condemnation of russia at the 620 meeting. russia's answer, more likely by design than coincidence, was the day of missile strikes. the poles want to invoke article 4 of the treaty, jeremy bowen, bbc news, 0desa. as you can imagine, the events overnight and what we're seeing in ukraine, wherejeremy bowden has been reporting for, very much on the minds of leaders here. many of them have well been asleep, but we are starting to hear from been asleep, but we are starting to hearfrom leaders, including the british prime minister, who is attending the 620 summit as well. he's tweeted that he spoken with the polish president regarding these reports of the missile strikes, and he hasn't said according to this tweet that he
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reiterates the uk's solidarity with poland and express condolences for the victims. he says its government will remain in close contact and will co—ordinate with nato allies. lots to discuss as that 620 summit gets under way here. the bbc�*s danjohnson is in krakow and had this to say about the reports of missiles landing in poland. this is exactly what people in the east of poland had feared right at the start of the war. when i was reporting here at the beginning of the conflict through the early weeks during march, particularly, people in this city and closer to the ukraine border were really worried about that conflict spilling over, either deliberately or accidentally. we saw more poles signing up for the territorial defence force. we saw them preparing for in case there were attacks that came across onto their territory. we saw people packing their cars, packing clothes, ready to flee further west. now, the tension has eased after the early weeks of the invasion. that threat hasn't materialised, but this will cause serious concern because whatever
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is behind this, whatever�*s caused it, whatever sort of accident has occurred here, we assume that means there has been at least a fragment of missiles which have landed on polish territories and taken lives. that will confirm people's worst fears, whether it was intentional or not. the conflict in ukraine has the potential to spill over and to cause issues here in poland, which is nato. this is very close to the spot wherejoe biden landed at the beginning of april in air force one. that was a show of support for the polish people, for people right across eastern europe who are concerned at that time, a show of support for nato, a message that nato would be with these nations that border ukraine should the conflict spill out of that country. now, these reports are unconfirmed — we need to say that. we need to find out exactly what has happened, what has caused this loss of life, but it will cause major concern to people here. life is still going on here
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in krakov and the cities around this part of poland tonight, but this is news that will concern people. it does show that the conflict has got the potential to spill over the borders and to cause damage and loss of life in poland, a nato country. dan life in poland, a nato country. johnson reporting w picture danjohnson reporting with the picture in poland. moscow has hit back at reports that it was responsible for the explosion. for more on russia's response to the strikes in poland, here's the bbc�*s steve rosenberg, who's in moscow. the message from moscow is one big denial, which is the normal reaction you get from the russian authorities whenever they accused of something. so, tonight, the defence ministry issued a short statement in which it claimed that reports of alleged russian missiles falling in poland was a deliberate provocation aimed at escalation.
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the statement also claimed that there had been no strikes using russian weapons on targets near the ukrainian—polish border — although of course we although of course we there was this massive russian bombardment today across ukraine. at times like this, at times of crisis — and this is a dangerous moment — what you need are channels of communication between the opposing sides. you need one side to be able to pick up the phone and talk to the other. we know relations are bad between russia and the west, nato and america, but these channels of communication do exist, and only yesterday, russia's spy chief met his us counterpart, the cia director, for talks. reportedly, they talked about how to avoid nuclear escalation here in the ukraine war. so, you would expect that these kind of moments, conversations would be had — you would hope so — between russia and the west to find out what actually
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happened and to avoid further escalation. to avoid any escalation, as steve rosenberg put it. that certainly will be the sentiment among leaders. want to bring among leaders. i want to bring in my colleague, who has been watching all of this, monitoring this very closely from the newsroom in london. just bring us up to speed with what know. just bring us up to speed with what i know— ”z"'h£made has made a . . 7 has made a point 7 hasrmade a point of they are reacting saving than“: readranw ~ 7 and gaging these“: readies-mag ~ , and that's because calmly, and that's because of how high the stakes are here. any reaction and can have a very big consequence. in terms of what poland is doing, they're trying to look up the facts. they know that this was a russian missile, they don't
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know who fired it, and they say that two people have been killed. that's what they're laying out so far, and what's important there is what they're saying they don't know. the big question mark �*s here have very serious consequences. they don't know who fired it, or if it was intentional or an accident, and they don't it was intentional or an accident, and ti exact1�*t it was intentional or an accident, andti exa that is it was intentional or an accident, have at exa that is it was intentional or an accident, have now» that is it was intentional or an accident, have now» the they're it was intentional or an accident trigger ow» the they're it was intentional or an accident trigger ow» tt 4 hey�*re it was intentional or an acc nato :rigger ow» tt 4 hey�*re it was intentional or an acc nato :rigger ow» tt 4 hey�* to it was intentional or an acc n with igger ow» tt 4 hey�* to it was intentional or an acc n withigger ow» t members intent ~ 77 ”7” intent or , ~ intent or creed, territorial intent or creed, their �* their independence as been political independence as been threatened. but again, they are 3277: all of this while making saying all of this while making sure they are not escalating any tensions, and that's why they're saying from what they can tell, this is most likely a one—off event. those of the
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facts they've laid out so far. western powers are right now saying they're doing their own investigations to try and understand how this could have possibly happened. that understand how this could have possibly happened.— possibly happened. that fact -iece possibly happened. that fact iece is possibly happened. that fact piece is so — possibly happened. that fact piece is so crucial _ possibly happened. that fact piece is so crucial and - piece is so crucial and important as you pointed out. as the information gathering take place, we are starting to hear from some take place, we are starting to hearfrom some leaders. take place, we are starting to hear from some leaders. we were talking about the british prime minister and what he said just a couple of minutes ago, but just talk us through some of the other international response as we've seen so far. response as we�*ve seen so far. we response as we've seen so far. we do know that several world leaders like president macron of france, as well as the us presidentjoe biden, have said they've been in contact with poland and offer their condolences, they've lent their support. the nato chief has said that he certainly has contacted poland as well and has also extended his condolences. everyone is saying
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pretty much the same thing, that they're externally concerned by what's happened and that they want to get to the bottom of it and that meetings need to be held, which is why they're also reporting there will be an emergency 620 meeting that will be held on wednesday. but of course, there's also the reaction from ukraine's on president. he said he's also sending his condolences, but evidence of what he's been warning so far, that this war will not be confined to ukraine, that it will spill over the other innocent countries and it requires a proportionate response. he's looking for more support. but it's important to stress that we don't exactly know who is responsible. ukraine is pointing the finger at russia, russia is completely denying this and pointing it back, and so it's right now that same message of fact—finding and condolences with poland.
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fact-finding and condolences with poland.— fact-finding and condolences with poland. ,, . ., ., with poland. such an important oint that with poland. such an important point that you _ with poland. such an important point that you make _ with poland. such an important point that you make there, - point that you make there, azadeh mos, and even mentioning earlier that poland said its considering invoking article 4. it's sort of de—escalating strategy and a sense, not going all the way to article five. for the benefit of our viewers, could you explain the difference between the two and what each one means in terms of that exploratory aspect. article 4 doesn't seem that serious because it's just a meeting, but it's actually considered very significant. that's why poland, while it's trying to stress how common it is reacting, that's why it's not triggering article 4 immediately. by triggering that, you're suggesting that this could actually have a very, very serious consequence,
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that nato members much gather together and discuss whether the territory independence of one member state has been threatened. now, depending on how that conversation will go on how that meeting would go, that's when you look at article 5, and that is exactly what the west has been trying to avoid. it would mean that an attack on one nato member is an attack on all nato. therefore, a proportionate response is necessary. that is partly why the west so far has been providing aid and weapons to ukraine but has not been sending troops on the ground so far. at that point, it could lead to a much bigger global conflict than what we're seeing so far. �* ., ~.,, ., so far. azadeh moshiri, great to net so far. azadeh moshiri, great to get you — so far. azadeh moshiri, great to get you on _ so far. azadeh moshiri, great to get you on the _ so far. azadeh moshiri, great| to get you on the programme. i'm sure we'll speak again. for now, let's leave azadeh moshiri with her further investigations
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in the newsroom. let's bring in the director of the us programme for the international crisis group, stephen pump up, a former council adviser who oversold un affairs in the white house during the 0bama administration. —— oversaw. 6reat administration. —— oversaw. great to get you on the programme, and still a lot we don't know at this stage. what don't know at this stage. what do you make of the possible explanations behind this? i think there is a lot that we don't know, and so i think it's wise and prudent that most of the high level communication has focused on the need to be responsible fact—finding before people jump to any conclusions about what happened. 6enerally, it's been heartening to see that that has been a sort of consistent theme among leaders of nato. ~ . .
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consistent theme among leaders ofnato. ., ., , of nato. what are the possible implications — of nato. what are the possible implications of _ of nato. what are the possible implications of this _ of nato. what are the possible implications of this strike? - implications of this strike? with the caveats that this fact—finding is still continuing with my if you could play out the next steps are us? this is a very serious situation, and for many of the reasons that your correspondence have described. first of all, poland is a member of the nato, where the members are bound to each other. if there is an armed attack... there is flexibility within that commitment coming to the assistance of a member state can mean a lot of different things. nevertheless, nato is a very powerful alliance. if it came into direct conflict with russia, things could isolate quite significantly. it'sjust
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things could isolate quite significantly. it's just a conflict that nobody wants to see happen, and that's why i think it's just wise and useful that people have been very cautious about trying to describe exactly who's at fault for what happened today. yeah, but we're already _ for what happened today. yeah, but we're already hearing - for what happened today. yeah, but we're already hearing from | but we're already hearing from the ukrainian side, and referred that ukraine has dismissed allegations that one of its missiles landed in poland as a conspiracy theory. you are starting to see this conflicting statement coming through. how much pressure does this put on countries like the united states? what would you advise in the situation? i think you're already seeing the nato states trying to take counter escalatory measures, which i think why president duda referred to this as a one—off situation. there are also reports that some of the parties believe this was likely
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to be an accident. that doesn't mean that it's not a risky situation and it doesn't mean that it's not a serious situation. but it does suggest that there is not... so, i think, just looking at the statements that people have made today, there is an element of condolence. there is a statement of fealty to nato, but there's not a lot of escalatory rhetoric. the nato states are not showing any inclination of trying to make this thing go any faster or become any more serious. taste this thing go any faster or become any more serious. we are caettin become any more serious. we are getting some _ become any more serious. we are getting some of — become any more serious. we are getting some of those _ getting some of those statements coming in as you point out. the latvian foreign minister, ijust want point out. the latvian foreign minister, i just want to read what's been tweeted from there.
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latvia expresses full solidarity with our ally poland and will support any action deemed appropriate. russia will bearfull deemed appropriate. russia will bear full responsibility. deemed appropriate. russia will bearfull responsibility. i just want to get your thoughts on that. , ., ., on that. there is an outlier. the statement _ on that. there is an outlier. the statement from - on that. there is an outlier. the statement from the - on that. there is an outlier. - the statement from the latvians was an outlier. the reference to escalation, that's something that's absent from most of the messages, and if you look at the statement that the united states national security council put out after president biden's conversation with president duda doesn't have any of that rhetoric.— of that rhetoric. yeah, absolutely. _ of that rhetoric. yeah, absolutely. thank - of that rhetoric. yeah, absolutely. thank you | of that rhetoric. yeah, i absolutely. thank you so of that rhetoric. yeah, - absolutely. thank you so much forjoining us, stephen pomper from the us programme for the international crisis group. i'm joined now by former bbc defence
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correspondent jonathan marcus. he has been covering this for a long time. we've heard from stephen as well as the latest lines coming in from azadeh about the developing situations and ijust want about the developing situations and i just want to get your thoughts on what the possible escalations of this might be. you're quite right. i think caution is the watchword here. i think we can probably rule out a deliberate russian attack on poland. that would be extraordinary, that would really be making a drama out of a crisis. i think this is some kind of accident, either russian missiles have been inadvertently crossed the border into poland and struck a target, or possibly also, ukrainian s 300 air defence missiles trying to intercept russian attacking missiles have
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similar the guy across the border, landed and tragically cause these casualties. i think was interesting in the polish statement, the spoke about russian—made missiles being used. there cautious about saying who fired them, and the 5300 is saying who fired them, and the s300 is a russian—made missile. in one sense, it doesn't really matter who fired the weapon. what matters is the episode occurred because of a russian air attack mounted against ukrainian cities today or yesterday, and it's obviously not the first time this is happen, but this was one of the larger efforts that the russians have put in. these are attacks against civilian targets, against the energy infrastructure. and it's because of these attacks that
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ukrainian air defences are in operation, and it's because of these attacks that whatever across the border into poland did so. they can argue about us as much as they'd like. the responsibility lies, i'm afraid, in moscow. ~ ., ., afraid, in moscow. what do you see nato doing _ afraid, in moscow. what do you see nato doing in _ afraid, in moscow. what do you see nato doing in terms - afraid, in moscow. what do you see nato doing in terms of - afraid, in moscow. what do you see nato doing in terms of a i see nato doing in terms of a response? we've already heard from nato countries about a possible meeting coming up, but in terms of actual action, what do you see happening next? i think that such a meeting convened under articles four —— article 4 is likely, meaning that nato ambassadors in brussels meet together under the chair of the nato secretary—6eneral to discuss the crisis. in terms of practically what might happen, a number of things could happen. poland itself might
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request greater assistance in bolstering its own air defences. interestingly, for much of the year now, since the war broke out, since marge, there's been a very modern british surface—to—air system —— since march. there were two batteries moved from germany to poland to bolster its defences. so, there is some bolstering of poland's air defences already. there may be questions about more. i think the other aspect of this will be a renewed effort, certainly by those countries who are most bullish in arguing for ukraine to get better and more rapidly types of equipment, i think there will be talk about better air defences for ukraine. that is being done slowly. it's problematic. nato countries don't have huge numbers of systems that they feel able to send, but nonetheless, if it
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can stop russian missiles crossing ukrainian territory, then that would alleviate some of the problems for poland. i think also, some may start saying, look, the war is now degenerating in a way that could affect other countries. ukraine has the initiative. it's shown that it can liberate a very significant proportion of the territory that the russians took from it in their invasion, and perhaps the time has come to start stepping up assistance for there, perhaps so the like warplanes —— supplying things like warplanes. those of the issues that will become even more pertinent in the wake of this episode. pertinent in the wake of this e - isode. pertinent in the wake of this eisode. g ., ., ., episode. indeed. jonathan marcus. — episode. indeed. jonathan marcus, thanks _ episode. indeed. jonathan marcus, thanks so - episode. indeed. jonathan marcus, thanks so much l episode. indeed. jonathan l marcus, thanks so much for joining us with urinalysis. let's turn to some of the reaction from the united states. we've been
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telling you we've already heard from the americans. they've expressed caution to the reports of the missiles landing in polish territory. we heard from the white house and the pentagon, and let's bring in my colleague david willis, who is in washington for us. 6reat great to get back on the programme. just talk us through what the us response and the statement has been to this, particularly what presidentjoe biden has been saying, given the fact he's here at the site summit in bali, where the war has been a backdrop. absolutely riaht, and has been a backdrop. absolutely right, and instead _ has been a backdrop. absolutely right, and instead of _ has been a backdrop. absolutely right, and instead of being - has been a backdrop. absolutely right, and instead of being in - right, and instead of being in the building behind me, joe biden is in the building just behind you there in bali, which has nonetheless been on the phonein has nonetheless been on the phone in the wee small hours of the morning talking to the nato secretary lee 6eneraljens
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stoltenberg and president duda on poland. the white house has issued a readout of the conversation that took place. it says that president duda described poland's ongoing assessment of the explosion in the eastern part of the country near the border with ukraine, and it goes on to say that president biden offered full us support for and assistance with poland's investigation. the statement says president biden reaffirmed the united states's ironclad commitment to nato, and indeed, that is a commitment thatjoe biden has given on many occasions— most recently last month in fact, when he said that there was a sacred obligation, as he put it at the time, to defend every inch of nato territory. so,
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it's a wait—and—see approach to some of this up. the word from the penthouse... from the pentagon and from the white house, very much one of we're aware from these reports, we're taking them seriously and we are looking into them, charisma plus money —— karishma vaswani. just talking to jonathan marcus, he was speaking about how this may well in citified more aid to go to ukraine —— incentivise. that's been a big theme in the us and there's been appetite from it from the american public, but is often controversial. what do you think the white house's response to something like that might be in terms of further assistance?— assistance? that's an interesting _ assistance? that's an interesting question i assistance? that's an - interesting question because since the start of this year, since the start of this year, since the start of this year, since the invasion of ukraine, the united states has bolstered
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its numbers to the tune of 20,000 additional forces. its numbers to the tune of 20,000 additionalforces. it has 10,000 troops in poland, and during the summer, president biden announced plans to basically make their permanent headquarters in poland rather than having this rotational system of troops going to the country. there were also plans to provide missiles to poland as well, but that said, these are heavily political times in this country. the midterm elections have just taken place country. the midterm elections havejust taken place here. over the next couple of days, perhaps even as soon us tonight, the republicans are expected to cement their advantage in the lower house, the house of representatives. they're the house of representatives. they�* re close to the house of representatives. they're close to the 218 seats they need for a majority of the house. and that will change things forjoe biden. the
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