you ideal logically in favour of. you have _ ideal logically in favour of. you have taken labour party policy and replicated — have taken labour party policy and replicated it. i don't accept that. replicated it. i don't acce -t that. �* . i don't accept that. but it is true. if anything _ i don't accept that. but it is true. if anything you — i don't accept that. but it is true. if anything you have _ i don't accept that. but it is true. if anything you have gone - i don't accept that. but it is true. if anything you have gone further than labour. what people in business to tell_ than labour. what people in business to tell me _ than labour. what people in business to tell me is— than labour. what people in business to tell me is if your aim is to bring — to tell me is if your aim is to bring debt_ to tell me is if your aim is to bring debt as a percentage of gdp down, _ bring debt as a percentage of gdp down, don't forget about the growth. there _ down, don't forget about the growth. there is— down, don't forget about the growth. there is in— down, don't forget about the growth. there is in here much to stop businesses hibernating this winter. no additional tax incentives to invest — no additional tax incentives to invest. you have given up growth. ido i do not think that is true. with the tax on energy companies we need to maintain investment. we have bought in the electricity generators because they are enjoying profits

that are extreme and beyond anything that are extreme and beyond anything that can be related to the cycle. we have protected the research and development budget and small businesses in particular from businesses in particular from business rate changes. we recognise our difficult challenges. even with the increase in corporation tax, 70% of businesses will not pay back. they are making profits of less than 50,000. what we have tried to do is say, where are we globally? the 25% rate in corporation tax is competitive, the most competitive and the g7. i am not pretending these are easy decisions. i was a ministerfor 4.5 years. we need stability in the markets was that you have acknowledge the reaction to the statement is broadly welcomed. that is what the country needs, a degree of stability at this time. you say it is a balanced budget. i want to return to the issue of tax

rises and manifesto commitments made by the conservative government in 2019. yesterday, esther mcvey said that she would not agree to higher taxes and she implied that if the tories are not about lower taxation than what is the point? will educate a hat and colleagues who agree with her? i a hat and colleagues who agree with her? . , _ . her? i am very sympathetic with the instinct of lower _ her? i am very sympathetic with the instinct of lower taxes. _ her? i am very sympathetic with the instinct of lower taxes. we - her? i am very sympathetic with the instinct of lower taxes. we are - instinct of lower taxes. we are going through a set of challenges to the economy which have resulted in inflationary measures which have impacted people very badly. as government of the day we had to take steps to look after those people. we have done that with upgrading benefits and special payments this year and next year. that cost quite a lot of money. in order to pay for that we need to get the balance right between borrowing and tax. isn't the reality you have kept the toughest —

isn't the reality you have kept the toughest decisions till after the next election, and on current potting. — next election, and on current polling, the labour party? gur polling, the labour party? our current focus _ polling, the labour party? our current focus is _ polling, the labour party? our current focus is to _ polling, the labour party? oi" current focus is to deal with record inflation rates. if you look at the profile of spending thereafter emanated back to what we saw in 2010, 2015, those changes are much less. they are keeping our commitment to the capital budget. chief public sector workers will took _ chief public sector workers will took at — chief public sector workers will look at pensioners and benefit recipients getting 10%. how can you look recipients getting 10%. how can you took them _ recipients getting 10%. how can you look them in the eye? a nurse we are clapping _ look them in the eye? a nurse we are clapping in— look them in the eye? a nurse we are clapping in the pandemic and a teacher — clapping in the pandemic and a teacher. . ., , ., teacher. the extra money given to the nhs and _ teacher. the extra money given to the nhs and 2.7 _ teacher. the extra money given to the nhs and 2.7 billion _ teacher. the extra money given to the nhs and 2.7 billion to - teacher. the extra money given to the nhs and 2.7 billion to social. the nhs and 2.7 billion to social care... . . the nhs and 2.7 billion to social care... . , . , , the nhs and 2.7 billion to social care... ., , ., , , care... that is in wages, is it? they feed _ care... that is in wages, is it? they feed into _ care... that is in wages, is it? they feed into pain _ care... that is in wages, is it? they feed into pain old - care... that is in wages, is it? | they feed into pain old reviews which happen in spring that takes account of a lot of representations.

this means higher wages for public sector— this means higher wages for public sector workers? you this means higher wages for public sector workers?— this means higher wages for public sector workers? you also know there is a deliberate _ sector workers? you also know there is a deliberate process _ sector workers? you also know there is a deliberate process with - sector workers? you also know there is a deliberate process with each - is a deliberate process with each pay review body. there are inputs given by government. the total budget of the nhs. amanda prichard has welcomed what we have done today for the nhs. she has welcomed it and said we asked serious about the challenges it faces. find said we asked serious about the challenges it faces.— said we asked serious about the challenges it faces. and yet strikes will probably _ challenges it faces. and yet strikes will probably go — challenges it faces. and yet strikes will probably go ahead _ challenges it faces. and yet strikes will probably go ahead by - challenges it faces. and yet strikes will probably go ahead by the - will probably go ahead by the nurses. l will probably go ahead by the nurses. ., , ., . . nurses. i hope not. i value what the nurses. i hope not. i value what the nurses had — nurses. i hope not. i value what the nurses had done _ nurses. i hope not. i value what the nurses had done and _ nurses. i hope not. i value what the nurses had done and they _ nurses. i hope not. i value what the nurses had done and they are - nurses. i hope not. i value what the nurses had done and they are under nurses. i hope not. i value what the i nurses had done and they are under a lot of strain. that is why the chancellor has put in extra money today. it chancellor has put in extra money toda . . . chancellor has put in extra money toda . , , g ., , today. it is interesting, john glen sains, today. it is interesting, john glen sains. two _ today. it is interesting, john glen sains, two colleagues _ today. it is interesting, john glen sains, two colleagues like - today. it is interesting, john glen sains, two colleagues like esther| sains, two colleagues like esther mcvey and others in the party that we cannot achieve the ambitions we would like, the instinct of being a

low tax or lower tax economy. to show tax as a percentage of gdp, on this graph, it is not taking on the figures today. it was 36.3% and has now gone up to 37.5%. that is quite a sizeable increase. you can look at other comparable european countries and saner taxes are higher. the argument might be that public services are better.— argument might be that public services are better. people like esther mcvey _ services are better. people like esther mcvey and _ services are better. people like esther mcvey and others - services are better. people like esther mcvey and others were | services are better. people like - esther mcvey and others were unhappy before with the tax burden where it was unable be even more unhappy now. —— and they will be even more unhappy now. how far will they take it? if it comes to about next year, when they oppose the changes? since the turmoil of liz truss's leadership, things have calmed down in terms of a rebellion. they will look at this and think this is not why we became it is whether they buy

the argument that this needs to happen and because public services need to be funded. let’s happen and because public services need to be funded.— happen and because public services need to be funded. let's welcome the director for the _ need to be funded. let's welcome the director for the institute _ need to be funded. let's welcome the director for the institute of _ need to be funded. let's welcome the director for the institute of the - director for the institute of the schools. yourfirst director for the institute of the schools. your first impressions and response, please. in schools. your first impressions and response, please.— response, please. in some ways it will be a relief _ response, please. in some ways it will be a relief because _ response, please. in some ways it will be a relief because there - response, please. in some ways it will be a relief because there are l will be a relief because there are not many spending cuts over the next couple of years, either for benefits or public services. limited tax rises in the short—term, mostly on those with higher incomes. what the chancellor has done is pencilled in some really tough spending periods after the next election. so we wait to see whether those really... whether there those really happened. two other things were saying, the fiscal problem is driven overwhelmingly by what he is having to pay on debt interest. that has really changed since march, since the last time we got the obr

numbers. interest payments will reach close to record levels. that is a very clear indication of the problems you get with high debt, high borrowing, high inflation, and the bank of england holding a lot of that debt. the second thing, looking at 0br that debt. the second thing, looking at obr numbers, we have the worst two years in their view for living standards pretty much in history, a really big drop they are forecasting in household incomes. that really big drop they are forecasting in household incomes.— in household incomes. that will be ve tou~h in household incomes. that will be very tough with — in household incomes. that will be very tough with people _ in household incomes. that will be very tough with people already - very tough with people already facing higher energy bills, even with some of the help from their government and rising prices of course on things like the weekly shop. we were expecting a freeze on income tax thresholds and we got it. in terms of people's salaries and the amount they are paying, even though they are called stealth taxes, people are going to be paying more tax, aren't they? in taxes, people are going to be paying more tax, aren't they?— more tax, aren't they? in terms of the next two. _ more tax, aren't they? in terms of the next two, three _ more tax, aren't they? in terms of the next two, three years - more tax, aren't they? in terms of the next two, three years that - more tax, aren't they? in terms of the next two, three years that was all an ounce back in 2021 because inflation is so much higher, it is a

much bigger tax rise. the additional money raised is small. the obr has inflation going negative at one point but i think in 20242025, which is pretty remarkable, if we see it. you get hopefully these increases in energy and feed prices dropping out andindeed energy and feed prices dropping out and indeed fulling. in energy and feed prices dropping out and indeed fulling._ and indeed fulling. in terms of the ublic and indeed fulling. in terms of the public pressure — and indeed fulling. in terms of the public pressure on _ and indeed fulling. in terms of the public pressure on services, - and indeed fulling. in terms of the public pressure on services, you . public pressure on services, you said actually there are not going to be the cuts we might have expected in the next two years but inflation is still running high. there are already ongoing squeeze is on front line services, even if the extra cash is going into education and health stop some departments will really struggle over the next few years. really struggle over the next few ears. . . . really struggle over the next few ears. , , , ., years. the big struggle will be on wares. years. the big struggle will be on wages- all _ years. the big struggle will be on wages- all of _ years. the big struggle will be on wages. all of these _ years. the big struggle will be on wages. all of these assumptions | years. the big struggle will be on i wages. all of these assumptions on spending where sat a bit more than a year ago when the expected inflation to be 3%, 4%. —— when we expected

inflation. to give the public sector anything close to wages matching inflation will be really hard, nigh on impossible in terms of the budgets that have been set. that is the harder set of decisions the government will have to make. we have seen nurses and teachers balloting for strike action and it looks like texture they will get yet again well below inflation pay rises. ' . , rises. the difference between - rivate rises. the difference between private sector _ rises. the difference between private sector and _ rises. the difference between private sector and public - rises. the difference between i private sector and public sector rises. the difference between - private sector and public sector at this point? fin private sector and public sector at this oint? ,._ private sector and public sector at this oint? , , . this point? on pay, the public sector has _ this point? on pay, the public sector has done _ this point? on pay, the public sector has done worse - this point? on pay, the public sector has done worse than i this point? on pay, the public. sector has done worse than the private sector. they are doing worse than the private sector at the moment. it is worth saying that pension remain massively more generous than anything in the private sector. if i was the government i would look at trying to rebalance that. a lot of public sector workers need that money now. going back to the mini budget, we were talking tojohn glen about how

much he should apologise for what they called the mistakes made. have they called the mistakes made. have the announcements today byjeremy hunt rectified, as he would see it make those mistakes? it hunt rectified, as he would see it make those mistakes?— hunt rectified, as he would see it make those mistakes? it was a three weeks a . o make those mistakes? it was a three weeks ago that _ make those mistakes? it was a three weeks ago that jeremy _ make those mistakes? it was a three weeks ago that jeremy hunt - make those mistakes? it was a three weeks ago that jeremy hunt and - make those mistakes? it was a three weeks ago that jeremy hunt and did l weeks ago thatjeremy hunt and did nearly everything that was in the mini budget. iwas nearly everything that was in the mini budget. i was disappointed to see he undid the stamp duty reduction. that was a relatively small tax cut and one that is very much needed because it is a dreadful, damaging tax, stamp duty. what we have had over the last couple of months since the mini budget has been a winding back from that, a very big difference in tone. actually not very big tightening next year in the way that the chancellor was thinking about. they might think they are taking a bit of a risk with the markets but i think they are probably right injudging that in changing tone, the clear

sense of a fiscal plan will be enough to keep a cap on where interest rates are going. as we are seeing are so important for them. is this big increase in interest rates meant notjust mini budget, that is what is driving nearly all the problems they have got? looking at the buduet problems they have got? looking at the budget here, _ problems they have got? looking at the budget here, the _ problems they have got? looking at the budget here, the cost _ problems they have got? looking at the budget here, the cost of - the budget here, the cost of borrowing over ten years for the game _ borrowing over ten years for the game and — borrowing over ten years for the game and is beginning to inch up. a lot of— game and is beginning to inch up. a lot of this _ game and is beginning to inch up. a lot of this is — game and is beginning to inch up. a lot of this is back loaded. there was no — lot of this is back loaded. there was no down payment before the election— was no down payment before the election on fiscal rectitude. it does — election on fiscal rectitude. it does seem also, going back to your point, _ does seem also, going back to your point, what — does seem also, going back to your point, what traders were openly calling _ point, what traders were openly calling them moron premium, after what happened in the liz truss budget, — what happened in the liz truss budget, has pretty much been eliminated. the market has been prepared — eliminated. the market has been prepared to give a chance. there was pretty— prepared to give a chance. there was pretty heroic— prepared to give a chance. there was pretty heroic growth assumptions in the obr_ pretty heroic growth assumptions in the 0br forecast by 2.7%. i received a text— the 0br forecast by 2.7%. i received a text from — the 0br forecast by 2.7%. i received a text from one business leader who says. _ a text from one business leader who

says. off— a text from one business leader who says, off the record i don't see the wafer— says, off the record i don't see the wafer thin — says, off the record i don't see the wafer thin growth plan ever getting 2.7% growth. there has been nothing in labour— 2.7% growth. there has been nothing in labour market or investment incentives _ in labour market or investment incentives-— in labour market or investment incentives. , . ., , in labour market or investment incentives. . ., , ., ,, incentives. the way obr models work, there is potential _ incentives. the way obr models work, there is potential for _ incentives. the way obr models work, there is potential for growth _ incentives. the way obr models work, there is potential for growth in - there is potentialfor growth in the economy. because we had such terrible growth in the recession over the next couple of years, there is growth potential after that. what is growth potential after that. what is growth potential after that. what is growth based on? higher immigration, going along with lower productivity. the growth is coming not from a big spurt in productivity committee is coming from a higher population. actually they still have measurable productivity numbers. thank you very much forjoining us. i said we would return to gloucester and we will do precisely that and join our reporter again, who has got people sitting with her and reacting to what they had heard in the autumn statement.

people here in gloucester, like so many others right across the country, had been talking to us about how have been dealing with the bills during such a tough economic time. this is eastgate indoor market in the heart of gloucester city centre. all day we had been hearing from business owners go shoppers, public sector workers, getting reaction to what was announced in the autumn statement a short time ago. let's speak to kim reading. you run a craft store is beside us. from what you had seen in the budget, the announcements today, what do you make of them? that announcements today, what do you make of them?— announcements today, what do you make of them? . . . , make of them? at that minimum wages auoin u- but make of them? at that minimum wages going up but that _ make of them? at that minimum wages going up but that means _ make of them? at that minimum wages going up but that means everyone - going up but that means everyone will pay— going up but that means everyone will pay more national insurance and more _ will pay more national insurance and more tax _ will pay more national insurance and more tax. long—term we were not any better. _ more tax. long-term we were not any better. �* . . . more tax. long-term we were not any better. . . , , ., more tax. long-term we were not any better. . . , , . ., better. and it has been a tough time. better. and it has been a tough time- still— better. and it has been a tough time. still very _ better. and it has been a tough time. still very tough. - better. and it has been a tough time. still very tough. every . better. and it has been a tough | time. still very tough. every day better. and it has been a tough i time. still very tough. every day it is hard work _ time. still very tough. every day it is hard work getting _ time. still very tough. every day it is hard work getting people - is hard work getting people into spending money because they are all struggling to pay bills. that is the key thing — struggling to pay bills. that is the key thing. how are you managing? i

am lucky. _ key thing. how are you managing? i am lucky. i— key thing. how are you managing? i am lucky, i have a part—time job as well as— am lucky, i have a part—time job as well as doing — am lucky, i have a part—time job as well as doing this and a small pension— well as doing this and a small pension but i still struggle. you are a postal _ pension but i still struggle. you are a postal worker, _ pension but i still struggle. gm. are a postal worker, you are in touch with local members. you are going through strike action at the moment. you are hearing so much from lenders at the moment because there is still pressure on the public isn't there?— is still pressure on the public isn't there? , , a, . , isn't there? definitely. mortgages auoin s isn't there? definitely. mortgages going sky high- — isn't there? definitely. mortgages going sky high. nothing _ isn't there? definitely. mortgages going sky high. nothing in the - going sky high. nothing in the budget— going sky high. nothing in the budget today _ going sky high. nothing in the budget today to _ going sky high. nothing in the budget today to help - going sky high. nothing in the budget today to help anyone i going sky high. nothing in the i budget today to help anyone who going sky high. nothing in the - budget today to help anyone who is earning _ budget today to help anyone who is earning a _ budget today to help anyone who is earning a wage _ budget today to help anyone who is earning a wage. there _ budget today to help anyone who is earning a wage. there is _ budget today to help anyone who is earning a wage. there is nothing i budget today to help anyone who is earning a wage. there is nothing toj earning a wage. there is nothing to make _ earning a wage. there is nothing to make them — earning a wage. there is nothing to make them feel _ earning a wage. there is nothing to make them feel any— earning a wage. there is nothing to make them feel any better- earning a wage. there is nothing to make them feel any better about . make them feel any better about themselves _ make them feel any better about themselves. still— make them feel any better about themselves. still in _ make them feel any better about themselves. still in the - make them feel any better about themselves. still in the middle . make them feel any better about| themselves. still in the middle of make them feel any better about . themselves. still in the middle of a dispute _ themselves. still in the middle of a dispute with — themselves. still in the middle of a dispute with royal— themselves. still in the middle of a dispute with royal mail. _ themselves. still in the middle of a dispute with royal mail. they - themselves. still in the middle of a dispute with royal mail. they are l dispute with royal mail. they are still announcing _ dispute with royal mail. they are still announcing there _ dispute with royal mail. they are still announcing there will- dispute with royal mail. they are still announcing there will be - still announcing there will be 10,000 _ still announcing there will be 10000 job _ still announcing there will be 10,000 job losses— still announcing there will be 10,000 job losses over- still announcing there will be 10,000 job losses over the i still announcing there will be . 10,000 job losses over the next still announcing there will be - 10,000 job losses over the next few months _ 10,000 job losses over the next few months within — 10,000 job losses over the next few months within royal— 10,000 job losses over the next few months within royal mail. _ 10,000 job losses over the next few months within royal mail. the - months within royal mail. the uncertainty _ months within royal mail. the uncertainty is _ months within royal mail. the uncertainty is even _ months within royal mail. the uncertainty is even worse - months within royal mail. the uncertainty is even worse for i months within royal mail. the . uncertainty is even worse for our members — uncertainty is even worse for our members at _ uncertainty is even worse for our members at this— uncertainty is even worse for our members at this time _ uncertainty is even worse for our members at this time of- uncertainty is even worse for our members at this time of year. i uncertainty is even worse for our i members at this time of year. today has not _ members at this time of year. today has not told — members at this time of year. today has not told us — members at this time of year. today has not told us anything _ members at this time of year. today has not told us anything to - members at this time of year. today has not told us anything to put i members at this time of year. today has not told us anything to put a i has not told us anything to put a smile _ has not told us anything to put a smile on— has not told us anything to put a smile on our— has not told us anything to put a smile on our faces. _ has not told us anything to put a smile on our faces. it— has not told us anything to put a smile on our faces. it is- has not told us anything to put a smile on our faces. it is another| smile on our faces. it is another kick— smile on our faces. it is another kick in— smile on our faces. it is another kick in the — smile on our faces. it is another kick in the teeth, _ smile on our faces. it is another kick in the teeth, as _ smile on our faces. it is another kick in the teeth, as far- smile on our faces. it is another kick in the teeth, as far as i smile on our faces. it is another kick in the teeth, as far as we . smile on our faces. it is another. kick in the teeth, as far as we can see _ kick in the teeth, as far as we can see. �* . .

kick in the teeth, as far as we can see, �* , ., ., , kick in the teeth, as far as we can see. m ., kick in the teeth, as far as we can see. a ., ., kick in the teeth, as far as we can see. a . . . see. as far as you are concerned, ou see. as far as you are concerned, you have — see. as far as you are concerned, you have not _ see. as far as you are concerned, you have not been _ see. as far as you are concerned, you have not been encouraged i see. as far as you are concerned, you have not been encouraged byj see. as far as you are concerned, i you have not been encouraged by any of the enhancements? {lari you have not been encouraged by any of the enhancements?— of the enhancements? of course, it is aood of the enhancements? of course, it is good that — of the enhancements? of course, it is good that some _ of the enhancements? of course, it is good that some people _ of the enhancements? of course, it is good that some people have i of the enhancements? of course, it| is good that some people have been given— is good that some people have been given more — is good that some people have been given more money _ is good that some people have been given more money. we _ is good that some people have been given more money. we are - is good that some people have been given more money. we are not- is good that some people have beenl given more money. we are not trying to take _ given more money. we are not trying to take it— given more money. we are not trying to take it away— given more money. we are not trying to take it away from _ given more money. we are not trying to take it away from anyone. - given more money. we are not trying to take it away from anyone. we i given more money. we are not trying to take it away from anyone. we are i to take it away from anyone. we are trying _ to take it away from anyone. we are trying to _ to take it away from anyone. we are trying to get — to take it away from anyone. we are trying to get what _ to take it away from anyone. we are trying to get what we _ to take it away from anyone. we are trying to get what we deserve - to take it away from anyone. we are trying to get what we deserve and i to take it away from anyone. we are trying to get what we deserve and in a fair— trying to get what we deserve and in a fair way _ trying to get what we deserve and in a fair way there _ trying to get what we deserve and in a fair way. there is _ trying to get what we deserve and in a fair way. there is nothing - trying to get what we deserve and in a fair way. there is nothing wrong i a fair way. there is nothing wrong with the _ a fair way. there is nothing wrong with the trip — a fair way. there is nothing wrong with the trip a _ a fair way. there is nothing wrong with the trip a lot _ a fair way. there is nothing wrong with the trip a lot being _ with the trip a lot being guaranteed, _ with the trip a lot being guaranteed, that- with the trip a lot being guaranteed, that is- with the trip a lot being guaranteed, that is a i with the trip a lot being i guaranteed, that is a great with the trip a lot being - guaranteed, that is a great thing. pensioners — guaranteed, that is a great thing. pensioners have _ guaranteed, that is a great thing. pensioners have paid _ guaranteed, that is a great thing. pensioners have paid in _ guaranteed, that is a great thing. pensioners have paid in full- guaranteed, that is a great thing. pensioners have paid in full suchi guaranteed, that is a great thing. i pensioners have paid in full such a lon- pensioners have paid in full such a long time — pensioners have paid in full such a long time and _ pensioners have paid in full such a long time and they _ pensioners have paid in full such a long time and they should - pensioners have paid in full such a long time and they should get i pensioners have paid in full such a| long time and they should get that money _ long time and they should get that money what— long time and they should get that money. what we _ long time and they should get that money. what we are _ long time and they should get that money. what we are asking - long time and they should get that money. what we are asking for i long time and they should get that money. what we are asking for is. money. what we are asking for is some _ money. what we are asking for is some fairness~ _ money. what we are asking for is some fairness. we _ money. what we are asking for is some fairness. we are _ money. what we are asking for is some fairness. we are talking i money. what we are asking for is some fairness. we are talking ofi some fairness. we are talking of ceos— some fairness. we are talking of ceos who — some fairness. we are talking of ceos who had _ some fairness. we are talking of ceos who had taken _ some fairness. we are talking of ceos who had taken millions i some fairness. we are talking of ceos who had taken millions of. some fairness. we are talking of i ceos who had taken millions of lives a pounds _ ceos who had taken millions of lives a pounds out — ceos who had taken millions of lives a pounds out of— ceos who had taken millions of lives a pounds out of our— ceos who had taken millions of lives a pounds out of our industry. - ceos who had taken millions of lives a pounds out of our industry. everyi a pounds out of our industry. every year _ a pounds out of our industry. every year going — a pounds out of our industry. every year going from _ a pounds out of our industry. every year. going from a _ a pounds out of our industry. every year. going from a company- a pounds out of our industry. everyi year. going from a company earning £800 _ year. going from a company earning £800 million — year. going from a company earning £800 million a _ year. going from a company earning £800 million a year— year. going from a company earning £800 million a year to _ year. going from a company earning £800 million a year to then - year. going from a company earning £800 million a year to then saying i £800 million a year to then saying they are _ £800 million a year to then saying they are losing _ £800 million a year to then saying they are losing £1 _ £800 million a year to then saying they are losing £1 million - £800 million a year to then saying they are losing £1 million a - £800 million a year to then saying they are losing £1 million a day- they are losing £1 million a day within— they are losing £1 million a day within six— they are losing £1 million a day within six months, _ they are losing £1 million a day within six months, there - they are losing £1 million a day within six months, there is i within six months, there is something _ within six months, there is something wrong. - within six months, there is i something wrong. something within six months, there is _ something wrong. something seriously wrong _ something wrong. something seriously wrong with— something wrong. something seriously wrong with the — something wrong. something seriously wrong with the way— something wrong. something seriously wrong with the way the _ something wrong. something seriously wrong with the way the business - something wrong. something seriously wrong with the way the business is i wrong with the way the business is being _ wrong with the way the business is being managed _ wrong with the way the business is being managed. we _ wrong with the way the business is being managed. we get _ wrong with the way the business is being managed. we get imposed i wrong with the way the business isj being managed. we get imposed a wrong with the way the business is i being managed. we get imposed a 2% pay rise _ being managed. we get imposed a 2% pay rise that — being managed. we get imposed a 2% pay rise. that is— being managed. we get imposed a 2% pay rise. that is why _ being managed. we get imposed a 2% pay rise. that is why we _ being managed. we get imposed a 2% pay rise. that is why we are _ being managed. we get imposed a 2% pay rise. that is why we are on - pay rise. that is why we are on strike — pay rise. that is why we are on strike we _ pay rise. that is why we are on strike. we will— pay rise. that is why we are on strike. we will be _ pay rise. that is why we are on strike. we will be on _ pay rise. that is why we are on strike. we will be on strike i pay rise. that is why we are on strike. we will be on strike oni pay rise. that is why we are on i strike. we will be on strike on good fridaym _ strike. we will be on strike on good friday... surrey, _ strike. we will be on strike on good friday... surrey, on— strike. we will be on strike on good friday... surrey, on cyber— strike. we will be on strike on good friday... surrey, on cyber monday. strike. we will be on strike on good. friday... surrey, on cyber monday as welt _ friday... surrey, on cyber monday as welt to _ friday... surrey, on cyber monday as welt to put — friday... surrey, on cyber monday as welt to put as— friday... surrey, on cyber monday as

well. to put as much— friday... surrey, on cyber monday as well. to put as much pressure - friday... surrey, on cyber monday as well. to put as much pressure as - friday... surrey, on cyber monday as well. to put as much pressure as we| well. to put as much pressure as we can on_ well. to put as much pressure as we can on the _ well. to put as much pressure as we can on the ceo. _ well. to put as much pressure as we can on the ceo, simon— well. to put as much pressure as we can on the ceo, simon thomson, i well. to put as much pressure as we can on the ceo, simon thomson, to| can on the ceo, simon thomson, to make _ can on the ceo, simon thomson, to make a _ can on the ceo, simon thomson, to make a deal — can on the ceo, simon thomson, to make a deal we _ can on the ceo, simon thomson, to make a deal. we need _ can on the ceo, simon thomson, to make a deal. we need a _ can on the ceo, simon thomson, to make a deal. we need a deal. - can on the ceo, simon thomson, to make a deal. we need a deal. so. can on the ceo, simon thomson, to| make a deal. we need a deal. so we have got— make a deal. we need a deal. so we have got security _ make a deal. we need a deal. so we have got security going _ make a deal. we need a deal. so we have got security going forward, - have got security going forward, especially — have got security going forward, especially since _ have got security going forward, especially since there _ have got security going forward, especially since there is - have got security going forward, especially since there is nothing| have got security going forward, . especially since there is nothing in the budget— especially since there is nothing in the budget for— especially since there is nothing in the budget for us. _ you run an antiques and shoe store. have you been encouraged? what do you make of the announcements? i do you make of the announcements? i do not think it has _ you make of the announcements? i cf not think it has done anything at all to help the economy. grains of sand in an ocean. it makes no difference to the cost of living. it is disproportional. it is totally a joke. that is what i think. they have done nothing to stimulate the economy, the work ethic in our population. economy, the work ethic in our imputation-— economy, the work ethic in our --oulation. ~ . ., population. what were you hoping to hear? something _ population. what were you hoping to hear? something positive. _ population. what were you hoping to hear? something positive. there - population. what were you hoping to hear? something positive. there is l hear? something positive. there is nothina . hear? something positive. there is nothing- how— hear? something positive. there is nothing. how much _ hear? something positive. there is nothing. how much longer- hear? something positive. there is nothing. how much longer do - hear? something positive. there is nothing. how much longer do you i nothing. how much longer do you think ou nothing. how much longer do you think you can _ nothing. how much longer do you think you can go _ nothing. how much longer do you think you can go on _ nothing. how much longer do you think you can go on for? - nothing. how much longer do you think you can go on for? just - nothing. how much longer do you think you can go on for? just a . nothing. how much longer do you |

think you can go on for? just a few months at — think you can go on for? just a few months at best. _ think you can go on for? just a few months at best. thank _ think you can go on for? just a few months at best. thank you - think you can go on for? just a few months at best. thank you all- think you can go on for? just a few months at best. thank you all very much indeed- _ months at best. thank you all very much indeed. the _ months at best. thank you all very much indeed. the people - months at best. thank you all very much indeed. the people in - much indeed. the people in gloucester, they will be keeping a close eye on how the announcements could have an effect on their futures but chances are their budgets will be squeezed and the way they continue to run businesses squeezed even more so in the coming months. studio: i am sorry the picture fro is a little bit throughout those interviews. i think you could hear everything being said. pauljohnson, director of the institute for fiscal studies. reflecting that many of the decisions today were driven by higher borrowing costs for the government. we can show you the forecasts now. we have those figures. rememberwe forecasts now. we have those figures. remember we did not have the office for budget responsibility who are required to give these forecasts a couple of times a year. you can see, £177 billion this year

and next. dropping to 140 billion and next. dropping to 140 billion and you can see the figures as you go through, 69.2 by 20 27—8. what do you make of those figures? that chart, hundreds _ you make of those figures? that chart, hundreds of _ you make of those figures? twat chart, hundreds of billions more than the previous, march 2020. it is staggering to imagine what that would have been were it not for the reversals. and to think, as we revealed, the 0br gave numbers to the previous chancellor on their first day in office. i cannot see how it would have been much different and they carried on pursuing that policy. that is quite something. i would pursuing that policy. that is quite something. iwould be pursuing that policy. that is quite something. i would be surprised if there was not an inquiry because, to end up with this after you have reversed the measures, what would it look like before? interest rate costs, £120 billion. that is getting are not quite to the nhs budget,

above the schools budget. it stays around 100 billion for the entire period. another nugget. we talked about the threshold increases. the 0br said as a result of this freeze in the threshold, we will get 3 million more peoplejoining the tax system and, on top of that, 2.6 million more higher rate taxpayers. it takes it till about 8 million higher rate taxpayers. 1990, one .7 million. a quarter of taxpayers will be higher rate taxpayers. that is a significant change. child benefit which is the current policy? it child benefit which is the current oli ? , ., ~' ., child benefit which is the current oli ? , ., , policy? it is taking more people into the higher _ policy? it is taking more people into the higher rate. _ policy? it is taking more people into the higher rate. we - policy? it is taking more people into the higher rate. we can - policy? it is taking more people - into the higher rate. we can welcome the shadow chief secretary to the treasury pat mcfadden for the labour party. you will have heard jeremy hunt say the office for budget

responsibility blames the high rates of inflation mainly on global headwinds. do you agree that it is down to the war in ukraine that has led to higher energy prices in the main, not entirely, and that led to the high rate of inflation? there are definitely global factors. mainly? but there are two other important things that led to the statement today and the first is obvious, the mini—budget that crash the economy. mortgage rates rising and so on. the other is the longer term growth performance. we are the only g7 country not to recover an economic position from covid. it is notjust economic position from covid. it is not just about the 12 weeks since the mini—budget, it is about a longer pattern of years of anaemic growth. of course there are

international factors. growth. of course there are internationalfactors. the invasion of ukraine and the impact on energy prices and inflation. that this country has been more exposed to global factors because of the other two things. global factors because of the other two thins. ~ . ., global factors because of the other twothinus.~ . ., ~ two things. which part of the autumn statement did — two things. which part of the autumn statement did you _ two things. which part of the autumn statement did you not _ two things. which part of the autumn statement did you not agree - two things. which part of the autumn statement did you not agree with? i statement did you not agree with? you agree with uprating pensions and benefits. with prices at 10.1%. you agree with the energy price guarantee intervention and you initially said it should go to april and it will be extended further. and there will be targeted help for the poorest. there is extra cash going to education and the nhs. all of which you agree with. stand to education and the nhs. all of which you agree with. and windfall taxes. which you agree with. and windfall taxes- and — which you agree with. and windfall taxes. and windfall _ which you agree with. and windfall taxes. and windfall taxes. - which you agree with. and windfall taxes. and windfall taxes. as - which you agree with. and windfall. taxes. and windfall taxes. as simon sa s, taxes. and windfall taxes. as simon says. some — taxes. and windfall taxes. as simon says. some of _ taxes. and windfall taxes. as simon says, some of these _ taxes. and windfall taxes. as simon says, some of these things - taxes. and windfall taxes. as simon says, some of these things we - says, some of these things we suggested. in the teeth of government opposition. he spoke for

an hour. a lot of measures. i have been around politics quite a long time. one of the things i have learned is when you get a budget with however many measures in it, the best thing to do is digested a couple of days before pronouncing on each and every one. xyou couple of days before pronouncing on each and every one.— each and every one. you do not disauree each and every one. you do not disagree with _ each and every one. you do not disagree with any _ each and every one. you do not disagree with any of— each and every one. you do not disagree with any of those - each and every one. you do not disagree with any of those and l each and every one. you do not i disagree with any of those and the windfall tax, you suggested, they have taken on.— windfall tax, you suggested, they have taken on. they have to some extent but — have taken on. they have to some extent but we _ have taken on. they have to some extent but we think _ have taken on. they have to some extent but we think there - have taken on. they have to some extent but we think there are - extent but we think there are loopholes in it that has left money on the table. it loopholes in it that has left money on the table-— on the table. it is going to raise £14 million _ on the table. it is going to raise £14 million according _ on the table. it is going to raise £14 million according to - on the table. it is going to raise £14 million according to jeremy| £14 million according tojeremy hunt. it was a labour policy. so they have taken your statement and budget and left you with nowhere to go? i budget and left you with nowhere to a o? ., budget and left you with nowhere to no? ., ., ~' budget and left you with nowhere to a o? ., ., ~' ., budget and left you with nowhere to no? ., ., ~ . . budget and left you with nowhere to go? i do not think that. we can come back to what may _ go? i do not think that. we can come back to what may happen _ go? i do not think that. we can come back to what may happen in - go? i do not think that. we can come back to what may happen in two - back to what may happen in two years. in some instances they have picked up policies, the 180 degrees turn they have tried to institute. but what they cannot get away from and this is an important point, is

just pretending the liz truss kwasi kwarteng budget was a bad dream. they cannot escape from the anaemic growth position, which means this country is having an emergency budget but a lot of competitors are not. ., ., ., , ,.,, . ., not. you did not oppose much of the mini-budget- _ not. you did not oppose much of the mini-budget. rishi_ not. you did not oppose much of the mini-budget. rishi sunak _ not. you did not oppose much of the mini-budget. rishi sunak did, - not. you did not oppose much of the | mini-budget. rishi sunak did, during the leadership _ mini-budget. rishi sunak did, during the leadership contest _ mini-budget. rishi sunak did, during the leadership contest he _ mini-budget. rishi sunak did, during the leadership contest he said - mini-budget. rishi sunak did, during the leadership contest he said very . the leadership contest he said very clearly that the measures liz truss was outlining, tax cuts, were immoral, that they would wreck the economy. labourwas immoral, that they would wreck the economy. labour was acquired, immoral, that they would wreck the economy. labourwas acquired, in fact labour agreed with much of that. you did not stand up in the way rishi sunak did. i that. you did not stand up in the way rishi sunak did.— that. you did not stand up in the way rishi sunak did. i recall doing a lot of interviews _ way rishi sunak did. i recall doing a lot of interviews the _ way rishi sunak did. i recall doing a lot of interviews the day - way rishi sunak did. i recall doing a lot of interviews the day the - a lot of interviews the day the budget took place, talking about the huge risk... i budget took place, talking about the hue risk... ., budget took place, talking about the hue risk... . ., ~ budget took place, talking about the hue risk... . . ~ . huge risk... i am talking about durin: huge risk... i am talking about during the _ huge risk... i am talking about during the contest. _ huge risk... i am talking about during the contest. we - huge risk... i am talking about during the contest. we said i huge risk... i am talking about during the contest. we said it| huge risk... i am talking about. during the contest. we said it was huge risk... i am talking about - during the contest. we said it was a hue risk during the contest. we said it was a huge risk with _ during the contest. we said it was a huge risk with public _ during the contest. we said it was a huge risk with public finances - during the contest. we said it was a huge risk with public finances and l huge risk with public finances and we were right. it is

huge risk with public finances and we were right-— we were right. it is difficult for eo - le we were right. it is difficult for people to _ we were right. it is difficult for people to think— we were right. it is difficult for people to think what _ we were right. it is difficult for people to think what would - we were right. it is difficult for- people to think what would labour do now so radically different. even when you digestive all the measures and i grant you there are a lot of them, but whether it is on tax, you would agree broadly that the wealthiest should pay more and they will pay more. you would agree targeted help would come through and pensioners and people on benefits will be helped the most. in principle, there is nothing to choose between them. they still have not done non—domicile. how much does that raise? not done non-domicile. how much does that raise? , ., not done non-domicile. how much does that raise? , . ., ., that raise? they have not done rivate that raise? they have not done private equity _ that raise? they have not done private equity managers - that raise? they have not done private equity managers who . that raise? they have not done j private equity managers who in that raise? they have not done - private equity managers who in some ways pay as a proportion of income less tax than the people who probably come and work in the canteen. there are loopholes in the windfall tax. there are different choices to be made.— windfall tax. there are different choices to be made. they would not call it a loophole _ choices to be made. they would not call it a loophole but _ choices to be made. they would not call it a loophole but say _ choices to be made. they would not call it a loophole but say the - choices to be made. they would not call it a loophole but say the fact . call it a loophole but say the fact you can — call it a loophole but say the fact you can offset investment, they

would _ you can offset investment, they would say — you can offset investment, they would say it is a deliberate feature because _ would say it is a deliberate feature because they want them to invest more _ because they want them to invest more in _ because they want them to invest more in the uk.— because they want them to invest more in the uk. this has left some ofthe more in the uk. this has left some of the biggest _ more in the uk. this has left some of the biggest oil _ more in the uk. this has left some of the biggest oil companies - more in the uk. this has left some| of the biggest oil companies paying nothing. because they are in effect being given money back for things they were going to do anyway. the non—domicile figure, it would raise about three billion pounds a year. and that is a significant amount. it is not as big as some other measures taken. what would distinguish you into years, when the election happens in 2024? you will inherit an awful lot of what was announced today, particularly some of the spending consolidation that goes beyond 2024. xyou spending consolidation that goes beyond 2024— beyond 2024. you would have to embrace austerity. _ beyond 2024. you would have to embrace austerity. let's - beyond 2024. you would have to embrace austerity. let's look- beyond 2024. you would have to embrace austerity. let's look at| beyond 2024. you would have to i embrace austerity. let's look at two years' time. one of the things the

country has learned in the past couple of months is what happens if you have no regard to financial stability. we saw that in market reaction to the mini—budget and everything that happened. emergency bank of england interventions. that is why we have been keen to say when we announce a policy we will say how we announce a policy we will say how we pay for it. we will put financial stability first. it may be that because of the economic circumstances that have been created year after year of low economic growth, a more difficult things and we would want to inherit. you inherit the situation you do inherit. i want to say to the public, you havejust seen inherit. i want to say to the public, you have just seen what happens when you go for a quick fix sugar rush and the reaction it had and what it did to mortgage rates. you will not get a mirror image of that from us. we will be responsible with public finances and where we

say we want to pay for something or do something we will say how we pay for it. do do something we will say how we pay for it. ,, do something we will say how we pay forit. , ~ for it. do you accept the obr numbers. — for it. do you accept the obr numbers, jeremy _ for it. do you accept the obr numbers, jeremy hunt's - for it. do you accept the obr - numbers, jeremy hunt's numbers as the baseline for your manifesto, 2% consolidation, 54 billion? we the baseline for your manifesto, 296 consolidation, 54 billion? we accept toda . you consolidation, 54 billion? we accept today. you accept _ consolidation, 54 billion? we accept today. you accept austerity? - consolidation, 54 billion? we accept today. you accept austerity? we - consolidation, 54 billion? we accept| today. you accept austerity? we said after the mini—budget that one of the mistakes was ignoring the 0br. we are not about to repeat that. there is a big debate about whether there _ there is a big debate about whether there is— there is a big debate about whether there is a _ there is a big debate about whether there is a black hole. this there is a big debate about whether there is a black hole.— there is a black hole. this is not there is a black hole. this is not the last obr — there is a black hole. this is not the last obr before _ there is a black hole. this is not the last obr before the - there is a black hole. this is not| the last obr before the election. the last 0br before the election. there will be other budgets and financial statements. let's see what happens over the next couple of years. we have not turned up today to do what liz truss and kwasi kwarteng did and ignore 0br. you kwarteng did and ignore obr. you turned u- kwarteng did and ignore obr. you turned up to _ kwarteng did and ignore 0br. you turned up to accept the consolidation? so you cannot turn around _ consolidation? so you cannot turn around to — consolidation? so you cannot turn around to teachers, doctors, nurses and give _ around to teachers, doctors, nurses and give them an inflation pay rise because _ and give them an inflation pay rise because you have the same fiscal

constraints? my because you have the same fiscal constraints?— because you have the same fiscal constraints? g , ., , , constraints? my message to everybody is we will put — constraints? my message to everybody is we will put financial _ constraints? my message to everybody is we will put financial stability - is we will put financial stability first. but let's see what happens in the next couple of years. this is not the final 0br report, there are two a year. as you know, often the forecasts they make can change quite a lot over six months. let us see what happens. we accept the 0br and think it is an important part. are the labour— think it is an important part. are the labour left _ think it is an important part. are the labour left signed up to that? think it is an important part. are i the labour left signed up to that? i am the labour left signed up to that? am here to the labour left signed up to that? i am here to speak for the front bench and treasury team. it am here to speak for the front bench and treasury team.— and treasury team. it sounds like ou miaht and treasury team. it sounds like you might go _ and treasury team. it sounds like you might go into _ and treasury team. it sounds like you might go into the _ and treasury team. it sounds like you might go into the election, i and treasury team. it sounds like | you might go into the election, as happened — you might go into the election, as happened when _ you might go into the election, as happened when tony _ you might go into the election, as happened when tony blair - you might go into the election, as happened when tony blair came l you might go into the election, as. happened when tony blair came in, saying _ happened when tony blair came in, saying we _ happened when tony blair came in, saying we accept _ happened when tony blair came in, saying we accept what _ happened when tony blair came in, saying we accept what you - happened when tony blair came in, saying we accept what you have - saying we accept what you have planned. — saying we accept what you have planned. the _ saying we accept what you have planned, the conservative - planned, the conservative government _ planned, the conservative government.— planned, the conservative government. planned, the conservative covernment. . . ., government. and you were around then. a government. and you were around then- a lot — government. and you were around then- a lot of— government. and you were around then. a lot of this _ government. and you were around then. a lot of this was _ government. and you were around then. a lot of this was back - government. and you were aroundj then. a lot of this was back loaded in whatjeremy hunt announced today. one of the reasons he did that is he wants to wait and see what happens over the next two years. there will be more budget statements between

now and then and more 0br reports. i want to be clear with you. if we inherit a more difficult situation than we would hope for if elected, as keir starmer has said in his conference speech, there may be things we want to do, good labour things, that take longer than we would like. things, that take longer than we would like-— would like. right. the 50 billion consolidation _ would like. right. the 50 billion consolidation is _ would like. right. the 50 billion consolidation is a _ would like. right. the 50 billion consolidation is a lot _ would like. right. the 50 billion consolidation is a lot of - would like. right. the 50 billion consolidation is a lot of stuff - would like. right. the 50 billion| consolidation is a lot of stuff you cannot _ consolidation is a lot of stuff you cannot do. — consolidation is a lot of stuff you cannot do, perhaps most. you do not have to _ cannot do, perhaps most. you do not have to accept it. you could say you will balance — have to accept it. you could say you will balance the books over nine years _ will balance the books over nine ears. ., . ., ., . years. you are saying no to that. you can push _ years. you are saying no to that. you can push the _ years. you are saying no to that. you can push the target - years. you are saying no to that. you can push the target as - years. you are saying no to that. you can push the target as far. years. you are saying no to that. i you can push the target as far into the future but there comes a point where how meaningful is the target? but you rejected that approach and saying. _ but you rejected that approach and saying. we — but you rejected that approach and saying, we don't want the same target? — saying, we don't want the same target? you have the same target as jeremy— target? you have the same target as jeremy hunt and same numbers? are you taking— jeremy hunt and same numbers? are you taking those into the next election? _ you taking those into the next election? | you taking those into the next election? ., ,._ ., election? i did not say we would take them _ election? i did not say we would take them into _ election? i did not say we would take them into the _ election? i did not say we would take them into the next - election? i did not say we would take them into the next election because this is not the last 0br

before the next election. this is their view of the situation today. it is a radically different view from their last report in march. if the election is in two years, there will be four more reports between now and then. let's see what happens but we will put financial stability first. ., n ., but we will put financial stability first. . a . ., ~ but we will put financial stability first. . a . . but we will put financial stability first. . n . . ~ first. pat mcfadden, thank you. when we were sitting _ first. pat mcfadden, thank you. when we were sitting here _ first. pat mcfadden, thank you. when we were sitting here at _ first. pat mcfadden, thank you. when we were sitting here at the _ first. pat mcfadden, thank you. when we were sitting here at the end - first. pat mcfadden, thank you. when we were sitting here at the end of - we were sitting here at the end of september, the 23rd, for the mini—budget, we spoke to jane foley. she said then that her clients were panicking to some extent as to what they saw in terms of market reaction. jane joins us now. they saw in terms of market reaction. janejoins us now. what they saw in terms of market reaction. jane joins us now. what is the reaction today?— the reaction today? thankfully, far more boring. _ the reaction today? thankfully, far more boring, which _ the reaction today? thankfully, far more boring, which is— the reaction today? thankfully, far more boring, which is what - the reaction today? thankfully, far more boring, which is what the - more boring, which is what the chancellor had tried to achieve. we have a series of reports over the last weeks. what those for school disparity measures would be and the

size of the fiscal