doom and gloom is here, but that is not the only thing in the world. in fact, this morning, we have good news as well. you could be living on the moon before too long. nasa tells us this morning we will be there before the end of the decade. we will be before the end of the decade. - will be sending people down to the surface, and they will be living on that surface.

surface, and they will be living on that surface-— that surface. you would not be blamed for— that surface. you would not be blamed for wanting _ that surface. you would not be blamed for wanting to - that surface. you would not be blamed for wanting to get - that surface. you would not be i blamed for wanting to get away. that surface. you would not be - blamed for wanting to get away. we will face into the storm. there may be a recession made in russia, but there _ be a recession made in russia, but there is_ be a recession made in russia, but there is a _ be a recession made in russia, but there is a recovery made in britain. metaphors — there is a recovery made in britain. metaphors will not make what is coming hurt your pocket any less. when the global storm hits, we are uniquely exposed because of the choices the conservatives have made. now the government has given us its plans for counting the pennies, we have one big question at this morning — how much is it really going to hurt? with less cash about, what does that mean for the biggest public service, the nhs? we'll talk to the man in charge, the health secretary steve barclay. what's the alternative to the government's plan? labour'sjohn ashworth is here. and beyond the gloom, we'll lift our eyes over the horizon. artemis one is successfully up in space. we'll talk to nasa's howard hu about the start of man's journey

to live on the moon before the end of the decade. and with me at the desk, tony danker, the man who speaks for british business, boss of the cbi. gary smith, chief of the gmb union who represents half a million workers. and with the game about to kick off in qatar, footballer chloe morgan. there's so much to come — football, finance, and maybe a bit of fun between now and 10.00. good morning. there's so much to get into the next hour, but we're going to begin with the news coming out of egypt this morning — a climate deal has been reached at the cop summit. but it's already being criticised. 0ur climate editorjustin

rowlatt is there for us. what's been agreed? does it stack up? it is a complex agreement. _ does it stack up? it is a complex agreement, agreed _ does it stack up? it is a complex agreement, agreed her- does it stack up? it is a complex agreement, agreed herjust - does it stack up? it is a complex agreement, agreed herjust a i agreement, agreed herjust a few hours ago. you can see they are clearly other than a way around me. the key thing agreed was this fund for loss and damage, it is already causing vulnerable nations, something that is rankles developing countries since the beginning of his climate talks back in 1992, they have been saying you have to address this issue to the developed world. the developed world has consistently said we are not interested in talking about that, we do not want to sign up for the cost that climate change will cause you in the future. so getting it onto the agenda here was itself a big deal, is to be honest, coming down here, we did not think there would be success. i remember stopping the us climate

envoy, john kerry, asking him what he thinks of the plan. he said basically it was not going to happen. so it is an incredible success that the egyptians have brought home this fund. i have spoken to the climate minister for pakistan, she negotiated on behalf of the developing nations, i can tell you she is delighted. she is also pleased with what she has achieved. she says it is the beginning of a long process, there is no money in the fun, for example, but she says this is the beginning of climate justice, they try to avoid these words, compensation, reparations, but if you are a developing nation, a vulnerable nation, you see it as compensation and reparations for the fact that the developed world got rich burning fossil fuels and costly problems. so in that sense, it is very significant, and it cannot be underestimated. but at the same time, the language and cutting emissions is very disappointing. it is likely have cut and pasted the glasgow agreement from last year, put it in the document, and styled

it back a bit. so there is talk about low emissions energy sources, and i have been asking everybody here what that is. the norwegian environment minister accepted that it could include gas. so this is an agreement that could allow natural gas, obviously a fossil fuel, to agreement that could allow natural gas, obviously a fossilfuel, to be part of a green solution, which i have to say does sound crazy. we spoke to the president of cop, who oversaw glasgow, he said it was very disappointed. the point of these conferences is to cut our emissions, thatis conferences is to cut our emissions, that is just not happening. the egyptians had a real opportunity to create a tram, and they have snatched a defeat from it byjust not increasing the ambition and cutting emissions. just not increasing the ambition and cutting emissions.— not increasing the ambition and cutting emissions. just then, thank ou so cutting emissions. just then, thank you so much. _ cutting emissions. just then, thank you so much, lots— cutting emissions. just then, thank you so much, lots to _ cutting emissions. just then, thank you so much, lots to unpick- cutting emissions. just then, thank you so much, lots to unpick and . cutting emissions. just then, thankj you so much, lots to unpick and we will come to that later in the programme. let's look at today's front pages.

the sunday express, talking about the fifa boss's controversial remarks at the opening ceremony of the world cup, we will talk more about that later as well. gary smith, we're going to talk to the health secretary soon. you represent ambulance workers, porters, cleaners, and other health workers. what is going on? our ambulance members are _ what is going on? our ambulance members are people _ what is going on? our ambulance members are people who - what is going on? our ambulance members are people who work. members are people who work throughout the pandemic without adequate ppe, people who were applauded throughout the pandemic, should have emerged on to a different world where they were properly rewarded and resourced, and that has not happened. 0ne properly rewarded and resourced, and that has not happened. one in three ambulance workers tells us that they think delays due to cuts in services have led to deaths. people are fed up, their pay has been going backwards over the years, the service has been cut to bits, and i wouldn't vote the health secretary to come and meet our ambulance

members and see what is actually happening at the front line of the service. �* . . happening at the front line of the service. �* , , ., happening at the front line of the service. �*, , ., ._ , service. let's see what he says about that _ service. let's see what he says about that in _ service. let's see what he says about that in a _ service. let's see what he says about that in a few— service. let's see what he says about that in a few minutes' i service. let's see what he says i about that in a few minutes' time. tony, that story about the government thinking they might fancy some closer ties with the eu or with switzerland who are not in the eu but have access to the markets in other ways, do you think there's anything in that? i other ways, do you think there's anything in that?— other ways, do you think there's anything in that? i think, as we saw on thursday. _ anything in that? i think, as we saw on thursday, there _ anything in that? i think, as we saw on thursday, there not _ anything in that? i think, as we saw on thursday, there not a _ anything in that? i think, as we saw on thursday, there not a lot - anything in that? i think, as we saw on thursday, there not a lot of- on thursday, there not a lot of great — on thursday, there not a lot of great growth prospects for the country. — great growth prospects for the country, and the government cannot afford _ country, and the government cannot afford to— country, and the government cannot afford to prime the economy likely used to, _ afford to prime the economy likely used to, such as no surprise were starting _ used to, such as no surprise were starting to— used to, such as no surprise were starting to look to other ways to grow _ starting to look to other ways to grow the — starting to look to other ways to grow the economy that do not cost money, _ grow the economy that do not cost money, and — grow the economy that do not cost money, and one obvious place is can we improve — money, and one obvious place is can we improve with europe? the problem is we are _ we improve with europe? the problem is we are not— we improve with europe? the problem is we are not currently even in fomenting _ is we are not currently even in fomenting boris' deal, so before we talk about— fomenting boris' deal, so before we talk about switzerland, we should be talking _ talk about switzerland, we should be talking about the bonus deal, which has more _ talking about the bonus deal, which has more opportunity are not captured _ has more opportunity are not captured and because of the northern ireiand _ captured and because of the northern ireland protocol. so rather than talking — ireland protocol. so rather than talking about switzerland, i think the government needs to talk about

northern— the government needs to talk about northern ireland, improved trade with europe, that will help us to grow. _ with europe, that will help us to grow. and — with europe, that will help us to grow, and maybe we can come back to the other— grow, and maybe we can come back to the other stuff in another decade, but i _ the other stuff in another decade, but i think— the other stuff in another decade, but i think we need to solve the northern— but i think we need to solve the northern ireland problem first of all. chloe morgan — we'll talk about the world cup much more later, but there still seems to be a muted anticipation of this tournament, even a few days away. do you feel conflicted about it being hosted in qatar? it is do you feel conflicted about it being hosted in qatar?- being hosted in qatar? it is a mass of moral and _ being hosted in qatar? it is a mass of moral and ethical _ being hosted in qatar? it is a mass of moral and ethical dilemma, - being hosted in qatar? it is a mass of moral and ethical dilemma, for. of moral and ethical dilemma, for supporters, — of moral and ethical dilemma, for supporters. the _ of moral and ethical dilemma, for supporters, the players— of moral and ethical dilemma, for. supporters, the players themselves, everyone _ supporters, the players themselves, everyone has— supporters, the players themselves, everyone has a — supporters, the players themselves, everyone has a strong _ supporters, the players themselves, everyone has a strong view- supporters, the players themselves, everyone has a strong view on - supporters, the players themselves, everyone has a strong view on it - supporters, the players themselves, everyone has a strong view on it and j everyone has a strong view on it and it is has— everyone has a strong view on it and it is has to _ everyone has a strong view on it and it is has to be — everyone has a strong view on it and it is has to be excited _ everyone has a strong view on it and it is has to be excited about- it is has to be excited about a tournament _ it is has to be excited about a tournament where _ it is has to be excited about a tournament where there - it is has to be excited about a tournament where there are. it is has to be excited about a i tournament where there are so it is has to be excited about a - tournament where there are so many things— tournament where there are so many things going — tournament where there are so many things going on — tournament where there are so many things going on behind _ tournament where there are so many things going on behind the _ tournament where there are so many things going on behind the scenes, . things going on behind the scenes, so much _ things going on behind the scenes, so much controversy— things going on behind the scenes, so much controversy like _ things going on behind the scenes, so much controversy like you - things going on behind the scenes, so much controversy like you said, | so much controversy like you said, and i_ so much controversy like you said, and i think— so much controversy like you said, and i think it— so much controversy like you said, and i think it puts— so much controversy like you said, and i think it puts you _ so much controversy like you said, and i think it puts you in _ so much controversy like you said, and i think it puts you in a - and i think it puts you in a difficult _ and i think it puts you in a difficult position— and i think it puts you in a difficult position becausel and i think it puts you in a| difficult position because a and i think it puts you in a - difficult position because a lot of peopie _ difficult position because a lot of peopie want— difficult position because a lot of peopie want to _ difficult position because a lot of people want to be _ difficult position because a lot of people want to be able - difficult position because a lot of people want to be able to - difficult position because a lot of people want to be able to enjoyl people want to be able to enjoy the world _ people want to be able to enjoy the world cup. — people want to be able to enjoy the world cup. get— people want to be able to enjoy the world cup, get behind _ people want to be able to enjoy the world cup, get behind it, _ people want to be able to enjoy the world cup, get behind it, it- world cup, get behind it, it is something _ world cup, get behind it, it is something that _ world cup, get behind it, it is something that is _ world cup, get behind it, it is something that is supposed l world cup, get behind it, it is| something that is supposed to world cup, get behind it, it is- something that is supposed to unify peopie _ something that is supposed to unify peopie and — something that is supposed to unify peopie and get _ something that is supposed to unify people and get people _ something that is supposed to unify people and get people excited - something that is supposed to unifyl people and get people excited about getting _ people and get people excited about getting to _ people and get people excited about getting to see — people and get people excited about getting to see nations _ people and get people excited about getting to see nations play - people and get people excited about getting to see nations play and - people and get people excited about getting to see nations play and the i getting to see nations play and the prospects — getting to see nations play and the prospects of — getting to see nations play and the prospects of their— getting to see nations play and the prospects of their own _ getting to see nations play and the prospects of their own nation - prospects of their own nation wilting, — prospects of their own nation wilting, but— prospects of their own nation willing, but for— prospects of their own nation willing, but for this _ prospects of their own nation . willing, but for this tournament prospects of their own nation - willing, but for this tournament its 'ust willing, but for this tournament its just feels— willing, but for this tournament its just feels like _ willing, but for this tournament its just feels like it _ willing, but for this tournament its just feels like it is _ willing, but for this tournament its just feels like it is a _ willing, but for this tournament its just feels like it is a little - willing, but for this tournament its just feels like it is a little bit - just feels like it is a little bit damp, — just feels like it is a little bit damp. you _ just feels like it is a little bit damp. you can— just feels like it is a little bit damp, you can understand l just feels like it is a little bit i damp, you can understand why because

this is— damp, you can understand why because this is so— damp, you can understand why because this is so much— damp, you can understand why because this is so much controversy— damp, you can understand why because this is so much controversy around - this is so much controversy around what _ this is so much controversy around what has _ this is so much controversy around what has happened. _ this is so much controversy around what has happened. it— this is so much controversy around what has happened.— what has happened. it will talk about that _ what has happened. it will talk about that later _ what has happened. it will talk about that later including - what has happened. it will talk about that later including what j what has happened. it will talk - about that later including what the boss of the fifa had to say yesterday, which raised a lot of eyebrows. we heard it here last week, and it came to pass — the chancellor's confirmed hard times. more tax and less cash for public services in years to come. there was a little extra money for the biggest one — the national health service. but there aren't enough staff, waits are longer every day, and we all know a lack of care for the elderly is making things worse. thousands stuck in nhs beds because there's not enough help on the other side. wasn't there the odd promise or two to sort that out? there are catastrophic costs that lead them to have to sell their homes — lead them to have to sell their homes to— lead them to have to sell their homes to pay for that care, it is right— homes to pay for that care, it is right to — homes to pay for that care, it is right to put _ homes to pay for that care, it is right to put in place a cap. for all the discussion _ right to put in place a cap. for all the discussion this _ right to put in place a cap. for all the discussion this has _ right to put in place a cap. for all the discussion this has had - right to put in place a cap. for all the discussion this has had over. the discussion this has had over many years, this is something that is really going to happen. the first ever proper _ is really going to happen. the first ever proper plan — is really going to happen. the first ever proper plan to _ is really going to happen. the first ever proper plan to pay _ is really going to happen. the first ever proper plan to pay for - is really going to happen. the first ever proper plan to pay for and - ever proper plan to pay for and provide — ever proper plan to pay for and

provide social— ever proper plan to pay for and provide social care. _ ever proper plan to pay for and provide social care. 50- ever proper plan to pay for and provide social care. 50 i- ever proper plan to pay for and provide social care.— provide social care. so i am announcing _ provide social care. so i am announcing now _ provide social care. so i am announcing now come - provide social care. so i am announcing now come on i provide social care. so i am. announcing now come on the provide social care. so i am - announcing now come on the steps of downing street, that we will fix the crisis in social care once and for all, with a clear plan we have prepared. steve barclay, health secretary, you're not even bothering to promise any more. have you given up on fixing social care? ., , ., , , . care? no, it is a very difficult decision to — care? no, it is a very difficult decision to make _ care? no, it is a very difficult decision to make those - care? no, it is a very difficult. decision to make those reforms, care? no, it is a very difficult - decision to make those reforms, we remain committed to them, but we recognise there is an immediate issue, particularly in hospitals where we have 13,500 people who are ready to be discharged but we are not able to do so, that is having a knock—on effect on things like ambulances and the flow—through hospital, and prime cause of that is around social care. so it is right that we are targeting investment, 2.8 billion next year, 4.7 billion a year after. part of that clear commitment from the prime minister and the chancellor to invest in health and care, 8 billion going into 2024, so we are privatising the funding we need to get that flow

into the hospitals, and humans that is getting more funding into social care. �* , ., �* is getting more funding into social care. �* �* ., is getting more funding into social care. ., ._ care. but you're not actually making chances to care. but you're not actually making changes to the _ care. but you're not actually making changes to the system _ care. but you're not actually making changes to the system that - care. but you're not actually making changes to the system that your - care. but you're not actually making | changes to the system that your own party, your own government, has agreed four years has to happen, because you're just pulling a bucket with a hole at the bottom. the chance with a hole at the bottom. the change we _ with a hole at the bottom. the change we are _ with a hole at the bottom. tie: change we are making with a hole at the bottom. t'te: change we are making is with a hole at the bottom. tte: change we are making is committed to further 200,000 care packages of the next few years, material both with and care itself, but also into the hospitals, because the key challenge we face, which is then being reflected in the challenge in a&e, in ambulances... so reflected in the challenge in a&e, in ambulances. . ._ reflected in the challenge in a&e, in ambulances... so you acknowledge the im act in ambulances... so you acknowledge the impact that _ in ambulances... so you acknowledge the impact that is _ in ambulances... so you acknowledge the impact that is having, _ in ambulances... so you acknowledge the impact that is having, and - in ambulances... so you acknowledge the impact that is having, and it - in ambulances... so you acknowledge the impact that is having, and it is - the impact that is having, and it is not happening right now. i want to read you an e—mailfrom one of our viewers, a senior nhs employee. if you said to meet you could have an extra billion for the nhs, you have to instead give it to social care. this logjam is killing us and literally killing people. how can you justify delaying the required

change again? the you justify delaying the required change again?— you justify delaying the required change again? the issue they are highlighting _ change again? the issue they are highlighting there, _ change again? the issue they are highlighting there, the _ change again? the issue they are highlighting there, the impact - change again? the issue they are highlighting there, the impact on| highlighting there, the impact on the health service, is exactly than we are targeting, which is why we are putting money into social care, £8 billion in 2024 into health and social to address the fact that what happens in care has a direct on what is happening... but happens in care has a direct on what is happening- - -_ is happening... but your predecessors _ is happening... but your predecessors and - is happening... but your predecessors and your l is happening... but your _ predecessors and your colleagues, people still in charge right now, have acknowledged it is notjust about putting extra money in. for years, has been an agreement, there has to be changed to the system. i ask again, how you justify delaying the change again? the ask again, how you 'ustify delaying the change again?— the change again? the local government _ the change again? the local government bodies - the change again? the local government bodies have . the change again? the local - government bodies have themselves asked us to delay, because they were concerned about such a major change at a time when as a consequence of the pandemic, the market is under such pressure within the care system. such pressure within the care s stem. ~ , , ., such pressure within the care sstem. _., ., , system. why should our viewers believe you're _ system. why should our viewers believe you're ever _ system. why should our viewers believe you're ever going - system. why should our viewers believe you're ever going to - system. why should our viewers believe you're ever going to do | system. why should our viewers i believe you're ever going to do it, there has been delay after delay after delay? everyone agrees is as important as it has never happened,

why should anyone watching this morning believe you will ever change the system?— the system? because i think your viewers can _ the system? because i think your viewers can respect _ the system? because i think your viewers can respect the _ the system? because i think your viewers can respect the fact - the system? because i think your viewers can respect the fact that| viewers can respect the fact that with the pandemic, the pressures we have in hospitals, let me give you an example of why there has been such a change of circumstances. going to be pandemic, we had 1300 people waiting more than 52 weeks for an operation. as of today, that is over 400,000, so these challenges are due to the pressure we face from the pandemic. we have had to take the pandemic. we have had to take the difficult decision, and it is a difficult decision, the chancellor himself when doing myjob as health secretary was very committed to these reforms, which is why it has been a difficult decision to delay, but what we recognise as we need more care packages and social care, it is right to buy those 200,000 additional places over the next few years, but also the spending in social care enables us to fix the real challenges we are seeing in our a&e departments... brute real challenges we are seeing in our a&e departments. . ._ real challenges we are seeing in our a&e departments... we will come to that in a moment, _

a&e departments... we will come to that in a moment, but _ a&e departments... we will come to that in a moment, but i _ a&e departments... we will come to that in a moment, but i want - a&e departments... we will come to that in a moment, but i want to - that in a moment, but i want to queue up on something there. you said these problems were due to the pandemic, but these troubles were building before we got into the pandemic. in february 2020, there were already 4.5 million people on a list for care. the cancer target got worse between 2015 and 2018. these problems are already being stood up, you cannotjust blame the pandemic. i was same predominantly the issue of the pandemic, if i take ambulances, the target usually all looked at as a third before the pandemic than it is now, so of course there were challenges going into the pandemic, that is when we have targeted significant long—term additional impact into health care. but it is the case that the very real challenges we all recognise, particularly around ambulance delays, a&e departments, people ready to discharge from hospital,

the starting 30,500 people, it is right to prioritise that within the very significant funding... right to prioritise that within the very significant funding. . .- very significant funding... you'll come to your — very significant funding... you'll come to your priorities - very significant funding... you'll come to your priorities in - very significant funding... you'll come to your priorities in a - very significant funding... you'll . come to your priorities in a second, but you have used the word challenge a lot, i want to show our viewers what the word challenge really means. the number of patients who have to wait over 12 hours before getting onto a ward when they arrive at a&e, look at that spike. that is not a challenge, that is a disaster. that makes my exact point, you can see the extent to which that has risen since the pandemic. fin see the extent to which that has risen since the pandemic. on your watch. risen since the pandemic. on your watch- the _ risen since the pandemic. on your watch. the point _ risen since the pandemic. on your watch. the point i _ risen since the pandemic. on your watch. the point i was _ risen since the pandemic. on your watch. the point i was making, i risen since the pandemic. on your. watch. the point i was making, this bein: a 12 watch. the point i was making, this being a 12 year _ watch. the point i was making, this being a 12 year issue, _ watch. the point i was making, this being a 12 year issue, you - watch. the point i was making, this being a 12 year issue, you can - watch. the point i was making, this being a 12 year issue, you can see i being a 12 year issue, you can see there has been a very material impact on the pandemic, and it is in that context we have ta ken that context we have taken the difficult decision on social care whilst we remain committed, but also

the 2.8 and 4.7 billion. but whilst we remain committed, but also the 2.8 and 4.7 billion.— the 2.8 and 4.7 billion. but can you look at that — the 2.8 and 4.7 billion. but can you look at that as _ the 2.8 and 4.7 billion. but can you look at that as health _ the 2.8 and 4.7 billion. but can you look at that as health secretary - the 2.8 and 4.7 billion. but can you| look at that as health secretary and tell our viewers this morning that this system is working? i recognise it is under severe pressure on that graph illustrates that. that's why despite the very real challenges in the autumn statement, the chancellor prioritised funding for health, an extra 6.6 billion over the next two years. it extra 6.6 billion over the next two ears. . . . extra 6.6 billion over the next two ears, , , , ., extra 6.6 billion over the next two ears. , , , ., , extra 6.6 billion over the next two ears. , ,, ., _._ extra 6.6 billion over the next two ears. , ,, ., , years. it is less than they say they need. years. it is less than they say they need- the — years. it is less than they say they need. the chief _ years. it is less than they say they need. the chief of _ years. it is less than they say they need. the chief of the _ years. it is less than they say they need. the chief of the nhs - years. it is less than they say they need. the chief of the nhs says . years. it is less than they say they i need. the chief of the nhs says that lives them need. the chief of the nhs says that gives them the _ need. the chief of the nhs says that gives them the funding _ need. the chief of the nhs says that gives them the funding they - need. the chief of the nhs says that gives them the funding they need, i gives them the funding they need, but focusing on the nhs without also funding care will not... but but focusing on the nhs without also funding care will not. . ._ funding care will not... but we have talked about — funding care will not... but we have talked about that. _ funding care will not... but we have talked about that. do _ funding care will not... but we have talked about that. do you _ funding care will not... but we have talked about that. do you accept. funding care will not... but we have talked about that. do you accept in | talked about that. do you accept in the real world the consequences for

people here are sometimes truly awful? georgina lee, the chief executive of the trust in gloucestershire, she said this week on record that people have died while they are waiting for ambulances. is she wrong? there's concerns likewise _ ambulances. is she wrong? there's concerns likewise in _ ambulances. is she wrong? there's concerns likewise in cornwall - ambulances. is she wrong? there's concerns likewise in cornwall but i concerns likewise in cornwall but have been raised with me that i'm looking out extremely closely. and looking out extremely closely. and are they wrong in this country in 2022 are dying unnecessarily because of blockages in the nhs? if 2022 are dying unnecessarily because of blockages in the nhs?— of blockages in the nhs? if there is a dela in of blockages in the nhs? if there is a delay in the _ of blockages in the nhs? if there is a delay in the ambulance _ of blockages in the nhs? if there is a delay in the ambulance getting i of blockages in the nhs? if there is a delay in the ambulance getting toj a delay in the ambulance getting to someone, that is a material risk and thatis someone, that is a material risk and that is why it is so important that we get the flow in terms of those hand over delays and that in turn is often about a fifth of the delay is due to what happens in hospitals itself, but the primary cause of the delay, the biggest factor has been delays in domiciliary care and residential homes and that is why we have put in place a significant programme of work and had a task

force looking at the delayed discharge. we have additional funding going into that. fin discharge. we have additional funding going into that. on that secific funding going into that. on that specific question _ funding going into that. on that specific question though, - funding going into that. on that specific question though, steve | specific question though, steve barclay, you have serious people, and nhs boss and a coronerfrom part of the country saying in the last couple of days that people are dying unnecessarily because of blockages in the health service. do you accept that? will you level with people? brute that? will you levelwith people? we had that? will you level with people? - had to address the handover delay, there's a range of factors in that. we need to look at demand management within our care homes, we need to look at the variation in poor performance between the different areas. a round of third of the problem is concentrated in 12 trusts so we have targeted measures, and we have additional funding going so we have targeted measures, and we have additionalfunding going in. b, have additional funding going in. a lot of people believe it is years of underfunding that have led to the service being in the state that it

is, irrespective of the pandemic that this problem has been building for a long time. we heard from gary smith, the... t for a long time. we heard from gary smith, the...— smith, the... i don't accept that because we _ smith, the... i don't accept that because we now _ smith, the... i don't accept that because we now have _ smith, the... i don't accept that because we now have 5096 - smith, the... i don't accept thatj because we now have 5096 more because we now have 50% more consultants since 2010. when the chancellorjeremy hunt was doing my job, we put in place the biggest increase in doctor training, about 25%, five new medical schools. it is 25%, five new medical schools. it is true that compared to other comparable countries we spend less per head, nearly 20% less per head than other comparable european countries. t than other comparable european countries. ~' , ., than other comparable european countries. ,, , ., , ., countries. i think you can see over the ears countries. i think you can see over the years whether _ countries. i think you can see over the years whether it _ countries. i think you can see over the years whether it was _ countries. i think you can see over the years whether it was during i countries. i think you can see over| the years whether it was during the coalition years, david cameron protected health more than other departments, theresa may invested in the long term plan, borisjohnson had the biggest hospital building programme, a very significant capital uplift because the estate

also matters. and what we have seen from this prime minister and chancellor is the nhs and care prioritised at a very difficult time for public finances and that's why we have 8 billion going in in 2024. may be actually what we need to do as a country is have an honest conversation about doing less. you have talked about priorities, that means choosing, doesn't it? should the nhs do less? you have written this morning in the mail about programmes that are far removed from the priorities of patients, so what should it not do?— should it not do? firstly we have 2.8 should it not do? firstly we have 2-8 billion _ should it not do? firstly we have 2.8 billion of — should it not do? firstly we have 2.8 billion of cost _ should it not do? firstly we have 2.8 billion of cost in _ should it not do? firstly we have 2.8 billion of cost in the i 2.8 billion of cost in the department, that's over 50,000 people that are not in direct patient facing roles. there's the possibility of merging those, but also having fewer targets, devolving decision—making into integrated care boards. decision-making into integrated care boards. . . . decision-making into integrated care boards. ., ., , .,

boards. what targets would you drop? it's about devolving _ boards. what targets would you drop? it's about devolving more _ it's about devolving more decision—making so it can be taken on a population basis. we have a data platform that will allow us to look on a population at a local level what are the specific needs. does that mean individual trusts might be able to decide about doing some things? it’s might be able to decide about doing some things?— might be able to decide about doing some things? it's about giving them more discretion. _ some things? it's about giving them more discretion. trust _ some things? it's about giving them more discretion. trust leaders' i more discretion. trust leaders' frustrations... when i was in cabinet office i discovered we have over 50 strategies for science and technology and i think 2.8 billion and the scope to look at how we bring that cost down, to empower more and use our integrated care boards more to look at where we sit. what about the services people get though? if there is more decision—making locally, does that mean that people in different parts of the country might get different services? ., �* , ., ,., of the country might get different services? ., �*, ., ., services? no, it's about looking at havin: services? no, it's about looking at having more _ services? no, it's about looking at having more efficient _ services? no, it's about looking at having more efficient pathways i services? no, it's about looking at having more efficient pathways so| having more efficient pathways so let me give you an example on

cancer. previously from a gp there was a requirement to send to a specialist, we have now announced direct access so we don't have the same level of bottleneck, we can have more home testing and go straight to diagnostic centres. we have a programme on surgical hubs so it's about looking on a local level how we design the health care system in a way that more empowered local leaders, betty uses the population level data that we have, and having less dipped out from the centre in a one size fits all, which is one of the things those within the nhs tell me is causing a lot of noise and distraction and actually getting in the way of them delivering patient care. . the way of them delivering patient care. ., ., , , the way of them delivering patient care. ., ., , , ., ., ., ., care. that adds up to quite a lot of 'aruon care. that adds up to quite a lot of jargon about _ care. that adds up to quite a lot of jargon about basically _ care. that adds up to quite a lot of jargon about basically saying i care. that adds up to quite a lot of jargon about basically saying you i jargon about basically saying you hope the service can run more efficiently and save cash that way but also dropping some targets. i want to be really clear about

dropping targets, so are you talking about dropping targets for care? you have urer about dropping targets for care? gm. have purer targets at the centre and enabling people locally to look at the population, be empowered, to have greater devolved decision—making. £2.8 billion for your viewer is being spent each year on the department is a huge cast and it's right at a time when your viewers are facing cost of living pressures that eyes the secretary of state are looking at how we deliver better value for money and addressing some of the areas where they see waste. tithe addressing some of the areas where they see waste-— they see waste. one of the biggest issues for the _ they see waste. one of the biggest issues for the nhs _ they see waste. one of the biggest issues for the nhs and _ they see waste. one of the biggest issues for the nhs and any i they see waste. one of the biggest i issues for the nhs and any employer issues for the nhs and any employer is pay. the biggest employer in england, i think the nhs is. the royal college of nursing has done something very unusual, they have voted to strike. notjust overpaid but also the conditions in the health service which they have significant worries about. —— not

just over pay but also the conditions. will you have meetings with them? t conditions. will you have meetings with them? ., ., with them? i met the rcn and other union leaders _ with them? i met the rcn and other union leaders this _ with them? i met the rcn and other union leaders this week. _ with them? i met the rcn and other union leaders this week. the i with them? i met the rcn and other union leaders this week. the rcn i union leaders this week. the rcn boss sa s union leaders this week. the rcn boss says i _ union leaders this week. the rcn boss says i must _ union leaders this week. the rcn boss says i must not _ union leaders this week. the rcn boss says i must not let i union leaders this week. the rcn boss says i must not let my i union leaders this week. the rcn i boss says i must not let my members nor the public confuse these meetings with serious discussions on pay, she says they are not proper talks. this pay, she says they are not proper talks. �* , , ., pay, she says they are not proper talks. r pay, she says they are not proper talks. a �*, .,, _ talks. as you say, it's not simply about pay _ talks. as you say, it's not simply about pay and — talks. as you say, it's not simply about pay and on _ talks. as you say, it's not simply about pay and on pay _ talks. as you say, it's not simply about pay and on pay we i talks. as you say, it's not simply about pay and on pay we have i about pay and on pay we have accepted in full the independent pay review bodies recommendations. it's a minimum of £1400 increase. itrufhat a minimum of £1400 increase. what will ou do a minimum of £1400 increase. what will you do if— a minimum of £1400 increase. what will you do if nurses _ a minimum of £1400 increase. what will you do if nurses go _ a minimum of £1400 increase. what will you do if nurses go on _ a minimum of £1400 increase. what will you do if nurses go on strike? let mejust answer the will you do if nurses go on strike? let me just answer the last question, that is on top of last year giving 3% when the rest of the public sector were having pay freezes. so we have listened, we have respected in full the independent pay recommendations where they look at these issues in

the round, and it is notjust pay. a fifth of a nurse's salary goes into pension. fifth of a nurse's salary goes into ension. ~ ., i. ., pension. what will you do if ambulance _ pension. what will you do if ambulance workers i pension. what will you do if ambulance workers go i pension. what will you do if ambulance workers go on i pension. what will you do if i ambulance workers go on strike? pension. what will you do if - ambulance workers go on strike? you are responsible for the health system in this country, what will you do? system in this country, what will ou do? �* . system in this country, what will oudo? �*, ., ., you do? it's important to continue talkin: you do? it's important to continue talking which _ you do? it's important to continue talking which is _ you do? it's important to continue talking which is why _ you do? it's important to continue talking which is why my _ you do? it's important to continue talking which is why my door i you do? it's important to continue talking which is why my door is i talking which is why my door is always open. it's notjust about pay, its also about the estate which is why we are investing in diagnostic centres and surgical hubs. it's also about tech. 0ne diagnostic centres and surgical hubs. it's also about tech. one of the frustration is often raised with me is frustrations with tech which is a key priority. and we hugely value the work nurses do. thea;r is a key priority. and we hugely value the work nurses do. they don't feel valued. — value the work nurses do. they don't feel valued, and _ value the work nurses do. they don't feel valued, and also _ value the work nurses do. they don't feelvalued, and also many— value the work nurses do. they don't feel valued, and also many of- value the work nurses do. they don't feel valued, and also many of our. feel valued, and also many of our viewers have heard politicians promise these 14 new hospitals before and there is a lot of scepticism about whether they will see them built. let scepticism about whether they will see them built.— scepticism about whether they will see them built. let me answer that then because _ see them built. let me answer that then because i _ see them built. let me answer that then because i was _ see them built. let me answer that then because i was in _ see them built. let me answer that then because i was in liverpool- see them built. let me answer thatj then because i was in liverpool this week, the royal liverpool which has

cost up to £800 million, and what the nurses were telling me there in that brand—new hospital is what a difference that has made. that that brand-new hospital is what a difference that has made.- difference that has made. that is one hospital. _ difference that has made. that is one hospital, and _ difference that has made. that is one hospital, and we _ difference that has made. that is one hospital, and we are i difference that has made. that is one hospital, and we are short i difference that has made. that isj one hospital, and we are short of time and we will keep an eye on the number is actually being built in the next few months. where was the ambition and vision in the autumn statement this year? we had the biggest drop in living standards in history revealed, less money in future for public services, not very much we have heard from the cbi boss about growth and how we get the economy going. it is doom and gloom, isn't it? brute economy going. it is doom and gloom, isn't it? ~ ., ~:: :: , ., ., isn't it? we have £600 billion of infrastructure _ isn't it? we have £600 billion of infrastructure investment. i isn't it? we have £600 billion of infrastructure investment. we i isn't it? we have £600 billion of. infrastructure investment. we are seizing the opportunities of our greater freedoms from brexit. seizing the opportunities of our greaterfreedoms from brexit. the chancellor made clear with our financial services we would use those freedoms much more. but would

a closer relationship _ those freedoms much more. but would a closer relationship with _ those freedoms much more. but would a closer relationship with the _ those freedoms much more. but would a closer relationship with the eu i a closer relationship with the eu help? suggestions now the government would like a swiss style relationship, is that on the cards? no, i certainly don't recognise that story. as brexit secretary i worked hard to ensure we did get autonomy in terms of our money, laws and regulation, and one of the things we want to do on the regulatory side is particularly in the high—growth areas, so the green industries, digital, financial services within my own sector, life sciences, is use that regulatory autonomy in those high—growth areas is a massive opportunity. d0 high-growth areas is a massive opportunity-— high-growth areas is a massive opportunity. high-growth areas is a massive ouortuni . , ., , opportunity. do you accept that up until now there _ opportunity. do you accept that up until now there have _ opportunity. do you accept that up until now there have been i opportunity. do you accept that up until now there have been some i until now there have been some pretty significant costs from brexit as well as the promise for future opportunities that you believe in? there have been opportunities. people have talked about how i don't think we would have done the vaccine roll—out in the way we did had we still been a member of the eu. there is huge opportunities and the autumn

statement showed that on solvency too. �* ., , ., statement showed that on solvency too. , statement showed that on solvency too. �* ., , ., too. but do you accept there are costs? there — too. but do you accept there are costs? there are _ too. but do you accept there are costs? there are always i too. but do you accept there are i costs? there are always trade-offs, but the point _ costs? there are always trade-offs, but the point is _ costs? there are always trade-offs, but the point is in _ costs? there are always trade-offs, but the point is in those _ but the point is in those high—growth sectors such as digital, life sciences, financial services, there is huge opportunities for the uk and what we saw from the chancellor in the autumn statement, particularly on solvency too was the potential to use those large pension funds then level up. it potential to use those large pension funds then level up.— funds then level up. it will be interesting — funds then level up. it will be interesting to _ funds then level up. it will be interesting to see _ funds then level up. it will be interesting to see what i funds then level up. it will be interesting to see what the i funds then level up. it will be i interesting to see what the cbi boss makes of what you have just said. lastly we heard a few moments ago about the deal struck at the cop climate summit, do you think things have gone backwards since glasgow? the uk did a fantasticjob at glasgow with alec sharma's leadership and the prime minister's backing of that. we need to look at the detail but the uk through its overseas aid budget has always

supported action in terms of climate change and i'm sure we will continue to do so. ,, change and i'm sure we will continue todoso. ,, , ., ~ change and i'm sure we will continue todoso., , ., to do so. steve backley, thank you for coming — to do so. steve backley, thank you for coming in _ to do so. steve backley, thank you for coming in this _ to do so. steve backley, thank you for coming in this morning. - we know how important and hard finding care for your elderly and vulnerable relatives is, and we're going to keep talking about it. please do share your experiences. let's see what our panel thought. gary smith, you heard steve backley saying there is more money going in, saying there is more money going in, saying there is more money going in, saying the pay deals are ok and he wants to talk to people, what do you think? h wants to talk to people, what do you think? ., ., _ wants to talk to people, what do you think? ., ., �* think? i have to say, i'm incandescent. _ think? i have to say, i'm incandescent. this - think? i have to say, i'm incandescent. this is - think? i have to say, i'm - incandescent. this is deluded and frankly pretty dishonest from the secretary of state. the ambulance service, the health service and care

were on their knees going into the pandemic and things have got worse. of course he finds it difficult to talk about wages. care workers are paid pennies above the minimum wage, doing an increasingly professionalised and demanding role. he doesn't want to talk about pay and poverty pay, and if we don't deal with the crisis around stuffing in health and social care we will not deal with the problem. but times are hard. governments _ not deal with the problem. but times are hard. governments around - not deal with the problem. but times are hard. governments around the i are hard. governments around the world have got a lot of pressure on money, and the nhs unlike other bits of the public services has had extra cash. why do they not tax non—dom is, the richest people in this country, what have they done about bankers bonuses? the truth is the tory government has made ideological decisions for over a decade about cutting services, and that is what has left their services on their knees. this is not hyperbole or emotion, our care homes were turned

into morgues during the pandemic because of mismanagement and cuts. people are dying because of cuts in services, so i find that interview, as i say, utterly dishonest and frankly i think the minister is deluded. ., ., , ., deluded. chloe, i aside from being a footballer you _ deluded. chloe, i aside from being a footballer you are _ deluded. chloe, i aside from being a footballer you are a _ deluded. chloe, i aside from being a footballer you are a lawyer, - deluded. chloe, i aside from being a footballer you are a lawyer, and - footballer you are a lawyer, and you deal with a lot of cases of people coming to you when things have gone wrong with the nhs, what did you make of listening to steve barclay? i have the same concerns, i see the kind of— i have the same concerns, i see the kind of cases — i have the same concerns, i see the kind of cases that _ i have the same concerns, i see the kind of cases that we _ i have the same concerns, i see the kind of cases that we have - i have the same concerns, i see the kind of cases that we have rising. . i have the same concerns, i see the kind of cases that we have rising. ii kind of cases that we have rising. i deal with_ kind of cases that we have rising. i deal with a — kind of cases that we have rising. i deal with a number— kind of cases that we have rising. i deal with a number of— kind of cases that we have rising. i deal with a number of delay - kind of cases that we have rising. i deal with a number of delay and i deal with a number of delay and diagnosis — deal with a number of delay and diagnosis in _ deal with a number of delay and diagnosis in cancer— deal with a number of delay and diagnosis in cancer cases, - deal with a number of delay and diagnosis in cancer cases, and l deal with a number of delay and . diagnosis in cancer cases, and you see the _ diagnosis in cancer cases, and you see the impact— diagnosis in cancer cases, and you see the impact that _ diagnosis in cancer cases, and you see the impact that has, - diagnosis in cancer cases, and you| see the impact that has, especially with the _ see the impact that has, especially with the pandemic _ see the impact that has, especially with the pandemic as _ see the impact that has, especially with the pandemic as well, - see the impact that has, especially with the pandemic as well, the - with the pandemic as well, the cutter— with the pandemic as well, the cutter had _ with the pandemic as well, the cutter had on _ with the pandemic as well, the cutter had on the _ with the pandemic as well, the cutter had on the types - with the pandemic as well, the cutter had on the types of - with the pandemic as well, the - cutter had on the types of services provided~ — cutter had on the types of services provided~ we _ cutter had on the types of services provided. we see _ cutter had on the types of services provided. we see delays, - provided. we see delays, mismanagement, - provided. we see delays, - mismanagement, misdiagnosis, provided. we see delays, _ mismanagement, misdiagnosis, this is not me _ mismanagement, misdiagnosis, this is not me wihhihg — mismanagement, misdiagnosis, this is not me winning the _ mismanagement, misdiagnosis, this is not me winning the nhs, _ mismanagement, misdiagnosis, this is not me winning the nhs, this- mismanagement, misdiagnosis, this is not me winning the nhs, this is- mismanagement, misdiagnosis, this is not me winning the nhs, this is me . not me winning the nhs, this is me burning _ not me winning the nhs, this is me burning the — not me winning the nhs, this is me burning the fact _ not me winning the nhs, this is me burning the fact that _ not me winning the nhs, this is me burning the fact that there - not me winning the nhs, this is me burning the fact that there have - burning the fact that there have been _ burning the fact that there have been capped. _ burning the fact that there have been capped. it— burning the fact that there have been capped, it is— burning the fact that there have | been capped, it is underfunded, staff— been capped, it is underfunded, staff are — been capped, it is underfunded, staff are put _ been capped, it is underfunded, staff are put under _ been capped, it is underfunded, staff are put under immense - been capped, it is underfunded, - staff are put under immense amounts of pressure _ staff are put under immense amounts of pressure to — staff are put under immense amounts of pressure to deal— staff are put under immense amounts of pressure to deal with _ staff are put under immense amounts of pressure to deal with their- staff are put under immense amounts of pressure to deal with theirjobs - of pressure to deal with theirjobs and growing — of pressure to deal with theirjobs and growing caseloads. _ of pressure to deal with theirjobs and growing caseloads. so - of pressure to deal with theirjobs and growing caseloads. so for- of pressure to deal with theirjobsl and growing caseloads. so for me, of pressure to deal with theirjobs . and growing caseloads. so for me, i cannot— and growing caseloads. so for me, i cannot see — and growing caseloads. so for me, i cannot see the _ and growing caseloads. so for me, i cannot see the impact _ and growing caseloads. so for me, i

cannot see the impact of— and growing caseloads. so for me, i cannot see the impact of that - and growing caseloads. so for me, i cannot see the impact of that on - and growing caseloads. so for me, i cannot see the impact of that on a l cannot see the impact of that on a day-to-day— cannot see the impact of that on a day-to-day basis _ cannot see the impact of that on a day—to—day basis when _ cannot see the impact of that on a day—to—day basis when i'm - cannot see the impact of that on a| day—to—day basis when i'm dealing with clients, — day—to—day basis when i'm dealing with clients, their— day—to—day basis when i'm dealing with clients, their families, - day—to—day basis when i'm dealing with clients, their families, when. with clients, their families, when you are _ with clients, their families, when you are with— with clients, their families, when you are with nhs— with clients, their families, when you are with nhs staff _ with clients, their families, when you are with nhs staff as - with clients, their families, when you are with nhs staff as well. with clients, their families, when. you are with nhs staff as well who are brought — you are with nhs staff as well who are brought into— are brought into these investigations. - are brought into these investigations. you i are brought into these . investigations. you have are brought into these - investigations. you have to read through— investigations. you have to read through some _ investigations. you have to read through some of— investigations. you have to read through some of these - investigations. you have to read through some of these reports, | investigations. you have to read - through some of these reports, and what has _ through some of these reports, and what has happened _ through some of these reports, and what has happened is— through some of these reports, and what has happened is often- through some of these reports, and what has happened is often tragic. what has happened is often tragic but also _ what has happened is often tragic but also often _ what has happened is often tragic but also often avoidable - what has happened is often tragic but also often avoidable in - what has happened is often tragic but also often avoidable in a - what has happened is often tragic but also often avoidable in a lot l what has happened is often tragicl but also often avoidable in a lot of circumstances. _ but also often avoidable in a lot of circumstances.— but also often avoidable in a lot of circumstances. tony, what did you ick out circumstances. tony, what did you pick out from _ circumstances. tony, what did you pick out from what _ circumstances. tony, what did you pick out from what the _ circumstances. tony, what did you pick out from what the secretary l pick out from what the secretary of state was saying? irate pick out from what the secretary of state was saying?— state was saying? we know that eo - le state was saying? we know that people are _ state was saying? we know that people are living _ state was saying? we know that people are living longer, - state was saying? we know that people are living longer, health| state was saying? we know that - people are living longer, health and social— people are living longer, health and social care — people are living longer, health and social care will need more and more nroney_ social care will need more and more money every— social care will need more and more money every year, and if we do not have _ money every year, and if we do not have an _ money every year, and if we do not have an economy that is growing, we are not— have an economy that is growing, we are not going to be able to pay for it, are not going to be able to pay for it. and _ are not going to be able to pay for it, and steve is right, if we do not have _ it, and steve is right, if we do not have reform — it, and steve is right, if we do not have reform in the system, we will not be _ have reform in the system, we will not be able — have reform in the system, we will not be able to pay for it, which is why i_ not be able to pay for it, which is why i am — not be able to pay for it, which is why i am worried about putting off social— why i am worried about putting off social care — why i am worried about putting off social care reform. we all know that the nhs _ social care reform. we all know that the nhs and social care interact with each— the nhs and social care interact with each other. everybody sees that whenever— with each other. everybody sees that whenever they are trying to get a relative _ whenever they are trying to get a relative out—of— hospital into care, and this— relative out—of— hospital into care, and this idea that we will deal with the nhs _ and this idea that we will deal with the nhs now had come back to social care in— the nhs now had come back to social care in a _ the nhs now had come back to social care in a couple of years, i don't think— care in a couple of years, i don't think it — care in a couple of years, i don't think it works that way. we need to stop performing these systems now because _ stop performing these systems now because we cannot afford to keep up with the _ because we cannot afford to keep up with the demands on the health service — with the demands on the health service. ~ ., with the demands on the health service. ~ . ., .,

service. what about the growth in the economy? — service. what about the growth in the economy? we _ service. what about the growth in the economy? we talked - service. what about the growth in the economy? we talked about i service. what about the growth in l the economy? we talked about the moment last week in the studio, the autumn statement set up some pretty hard times, all doom and gloom, that was very much the tone of it. you represent businesses in the country, what did you make of it? was this stuff missing?— stuff missing? yes, i will give jerem stuff missing? yes, i will give jeremy hunt _ stuff missing? yes, i will give jeremy hunt a _ stuff missing? yes, i will give jeremy hunt a bit _ stuff missing? yes, i will give jeremy hunt a bit of- stuff missing? yes, i will give jeremy hunt a bit of slack, i l jeremy hunt a bit of slack, i thought— jeremy hunt a bit of slack, i thought he did a good job with a bad hand~ _ thought he did a good job with a bad hand~ i_ thought he did a good job with a bad hand. i think this was the first part— hand. i think this was the first part of— hand. i think this was the first part of a — hand. i think this was the first part of a two part autumn statement. the first — part of a two part autumn statement. the first part was all about inflation _ the first part was all about inflation and get the government budget— inflation and get the government budget into some decent shape. that does need _ budget into some decent shape. that does need to be done, but there was really— does need to be done, but there was really nothing there that tells us the economy will avoid another decade — the economy will avoid another decade of low productivity and lower growth _ decade of low productivity and lower growth. jeremy hunt did some things which _ growth. jeremy hunt did somethings which will— growth. jeremy hunt did some things which will be very welcome, but he also made — which will be very welcome, but he also made businesses and everybody pay more _ also made businesses and everybody pay more taxes, so the fear is there 'ust pay more taxes, so the fear is there just was— pay more taxes, so the fear is there just was not— pay more taxes, so the fear is there just was not enough there to turn round _ just was not enough there to turn round and — just was not enough there to turn round and say, we can grow again, we can afford the — round and say, we can grow again, we can afford the nhs, we can afford social— can afford the nhs, we can afford social care — can afford the nhs, we can afford social care because we are growing again. _ social care because we are growing again. so— social care because we are growing again. so i— social care because we are growing again, so i do not think you did

enough. — again, so i do not think you did enough. i— again, so i do not think you did enough, ithink again, so i do not think you did enough, i think you will have to come _ enough, i think you will have to come back— enough, i think you will have to come back with more on growth. but it is not so come back with more on growth. emit it is not so long ago when liz truss and kwasi kwarteng put forward their proposal, and you said, this is the new era of growth, you are welcome some elements of it, and that turned into a disaster.— into a disaster. that is because of the elements _ into a disaster. that is because of the elements we _ into a disaster. that is because of the elements we welcomed - into a disaster. that is because of the elements we welcomed and l into a disaster. that is because of- the elements we welcomed and those we did _ the elements we welcomed and those we did not _ the elements we welcomed and those we did not. they tried to short cut growth. _ we did not. they tried to short cut growth, they said let's cut everybody's taxes, we will have more money _ everybody's taxes, we will have more money and _ everybody's taxes, we will have more money and grow again, but that ended in disaster. _ money and grow again, but that ended in disaster, because what they said at the _ in disaster, because what they said at the time — in disaster, because what they said at the time was weak have to do things— at the time was weak have to do things that are unpalatable to conservative party politicians, we need _ conservative party politicians, we need to— conservative party politicians, we need to change regulation, trip planning — need to change regulation, trip planning reform, have more immigration, and we have seen this morning _ immigration, and we have seen this morning we — immigration, and we have seen this morning we may need to have a better relationship _ morning we may need to have a better relationship with the eu. that is the kind — relationship with the eu. that is the kind of— relationship with the eu. that is the kind of agenda we will have to look at _ the kind of agenda we will have to look at now. they were right about that. _ look at now. they were right about that. but _ look at now. they were right about that, but they blew that case by trying _ that, but they blew that case by trying to — that, but they blew that case by trying to have the sugar rush of growth. — trying to have the sugar rush of growth. as— trying to have the sugar rush of growth, as rishi sunak calls it, and he is _ growth, as rishi sunak calls it, and he is right. — growth, as rishi sunak calls it, and he is right, and that backfired. so i he is right, and that backfired. so i did _ he is right, and that backfired. so i did not— he is right, and that backfired. so i did not like this debate when liz truss— i did not like this debate when liz truss says. — i did not like this debate when liz truss says, we need to care about growth _ truss says, we need to care about growth but — truss says, we need to care about growth but not inflation, jeremy hunt _ growth but not inflation, jeremy hunt on —

growth but not inflation, jeremy hunt on thursday says, we need to care about — hunt on thursday says, we need to care about inflation but we have nothing — care about inflation but we have nothing on growth. we need to do both. _ nothing on growth. we need to do both, otherwise we will not come out of recession — both, otherwise we will not come out of recession any time soon. | of recession any time soon. i know ou have of recession any time soon. i know you have your— of recession any time soon. i know you have your conference - of recession any time soon. i know you have your conference this - of recession any time soon. i know| you have your conference this week with some senior politicians there, be interesting to hear you put them through their paces. now to the world cup. a lot of controversy over the choice of qatar as host country. fifa president gianni infantino gave a frankly bizarre press conference yesterday. today i feel gay. today i feel disabled. today i feel a migrant worker, because i know what it means to the discriminated —— to be discriminated. to the discriminated -- to be discriminated.— to the discriminated -- to be discriminated. ~ . , ., discriminated. whatever your mind listeninu discriminated. whatever your mind listenin: to discriminated. whatever your mind listening to that? _ discriminated. whatever your mind listening to that? i _ discriminated. whatever your mind listening to that? i had _ discriminated. whatever your mind listening to that? i had a _ discriminated. whatever your mind listening to that? i had a lot - discriminated. whatever your mind listening to that? i had a lot of - listening to that? i had a lot of concerns about _ listening to that? i had a lot of concerns about those - listening to that? i had a lot of i concerns about those comments. listening to that? i had a lot of - concerns about those comments. they are a very _ concerns about those comments. they are a very offensive _ concerns about those comments. they are a very offensive to _ concerns about those comments. they are a very offensive to the _ concerns about those comments. they are a very offensive to the people - are a very offensive to the people he is _ are a very offensive to the people he is discussing _ are a very offensive to the people he is discussing there, _ are a very offensive to the people he is discussing there, it- are a very offensive to the people he is discussing there, it also- he is discussing there, it also minimises— he is discussing there, it also minimises the— he is discussing there, it also minimises the experiences i he is discussing there, it also. minimises the experiences they he is discussing there, it also- minimises the experiences they have had, minimises the experiences they have had. and _ minimises the experiences they have had. and i_ minimises the experiences they have had. and i think— minimises the experiences they have had, and i think for— minimises the experiences they have had, and i think for him _ minimises the experiences they have had, and i think for him to _ minimises the experiences they have had, and i think for him to open - minimises the experiences they have had, and i think for him to open up l had, and i think for him to open up a very— had, and i think for him to open up a very long — had, and i think for him to open up a very long speech _ had, and i think for him to open up

a very long speech with _ had, and i think for him to open up a very long speech with that - had, and i think for him to open up a very long speech with that kind i had, and i think for him to open up| a very long speech with that kind of comment. — a very long speech with that kind of comment. i— a very long speech with that kind of comment, ithink— a very long speech with that kind of comment, i think complete - a very long speech with that kind of comment, i think complete with - comment, i think complete with the tracts— comment, i think complete with the tracts away— comment, i think complete with the tracts away from _ comment, i think complete with the tracts away from the _ comment, i think complete with the tracts away from the issues - comment, i think complete with the tracts away from the issues in - tracts away from the issues in the tournament. _ tracts away from the issues in the tournament, which— tracts away from the issues in the tournament, which are _ tracts away from the issues in the tournament, which are huge. - tournament, which are huge. infantino _ tournament, which are huge. infantino has _ tournament, which are huge. infantino has said _ tournament, which are huge. infantino has said some - tournament, which are huge. infantino has said some veryl infantino has said some very controversial— infantino has said some very controversial things - infantino has said some very controversial things there, l infantino has said some very. controversial things there, and infantino has said some very- controversial things there, and he has complete _ controversial things there, and he has complete missed _ controversial things there, and he has complete missed a _ controversial things there, and he has complete missed a trick - controversial things there, and he has complete missed a trick in - has complete missed a trick in discussing _ has complete missed a trick in discussing the _ has complete missed a trick in discussing the issues, - has complete missed a trick in discussing the issues, so- has complete missed a trick in discussing the issues, so i- has complete missed a trick inj discussing the issues, so i was appalled — discussing the issues, so i was appalled by— discussing the issues, so i was appalled by these _ discussing the issues, so i was appalled by these comments, i appalled by these comments, disgusted _ appalled by these comments, disgusted ls— appalled by these comments, dis usted. . appalled by these comments, disgusted-— appalled by these comments, disausted. . ., . ., disgusted. is it right for the world cu to be disgusted. is it right for the world cup to be happening _ disgusted. is it right for the world cup to be happening in _ disgusted. is it right for the world cup to be happening in qatar - disgusted. is it right for the world cup to be happening in qatar at i disgusted. is it right for the world i cup to be happening in qatar at all, i was at an opportunity to race some of these issues? we know what they are, human rights issues in qatar and also their attitude towards lgbt people. for and also their attitude towards lgbt --eole. ., and also their attitude towards lgbt eo . le. ., ., and also their attitude towards lgbt --eole. ., ., ., and also their attitude towards lgbt ”eole. ., ., ., “ people. for me, i do not think it should have _ people. for me, i do not think it should have been _ people. for me, i do not think it should have been held _ people. for me, i do not think it should have been held there - people. for me, i do not think it should have been held there at. people. for me, i do not think it i should have been held there at all, it has— should have been held there at all, it has thrown — should have been held there at all, it has thrown up— should have been held there at all, it has thrown up significant - should have been held there at all, it has thrown up significant issues i it has thrown up significant issues like the _ it has thrown up significant issues like the abuse _ it has thrown up significant issues like the abuse of— it has thrown up significant issues like the abuse of migrant- it has thrown up significant issuesi like the abuse of migrant workers, the exploitation— like the abuse of migrant workers, the exploitation of— like the abuse of migrant workers, the exploitation of migrant - like the abuse of migrant workers, i the exploitation of migrant workers, workers _ the exploitation of migrant workers, workers coming _ the exploitation of migrant workers, workers coming over, _ the exploitation of migrant workers, workers coming over, not— the exploitation of migrant workers, workers coming over, not been- the exploitation of migrant workers, workers coming over, not been paid| workers coming over, not been paid at all. _ workers coming over, not been paid at all. being— workers coming over, not been paid at all, being abused, _ workers coming over, not been paid at all, being abused, not _ workers coming over, not been paid at all, being abused, not been - workers coming over, not been paid at all, being abused, not been ablel at all, being abused, not been able to leave _ at all, being abused, not been able to leave their— at all, being abused, not been able to leave their countries, _ at all, being abused, not been able to leave their countries, not - at all, being abused, not been able to leave their countries, not been. to leave their countries, not been granted _ to leave their countries, not been granted permits. _ to leave their countries, not been granted permits, been— to leave their countries, not been granted permits, been told - granted permits, been told they might— granted permits, been told they might be — granted permits, been told they might be thrown— granted permits, been told they might be thrown in— granted permits, been told they might be thrown in prison. - granted permits, been told they might be thrown in prison. for. granted permits, been told they. might be thrown in prison. for me, as a member—

might be thrown in prison. for me, as a member of— might be thrown in prison. for me, as a member of the _ might be thrown in prison. for me, as a member of the lgbtq+ - might be thrown in prison. for me, - as a member of the lgbtq+ community as a member of the lgbtq+ community as well. _ as a member of the lgbtq+ community as well. i_ as a member of the lgbtq+ community as well. i have _ as a member of the lgbtq+ community as well, i have serious _ as a member of the lgbtq+ community as well, i have serious concerns- as well, i have serious concerns about _ as well, i have serious concerns about any— as well, i have serious concerns about any lgbtq+ _ as well, i have serious concerns about any lgbtq+ fans - as well, i have serious concerns about any lgbtq+ fans are - as well, i have serious concerns- about any lgbtq+ fans are thinking about— about any lgbtq+ fans are thinking about going — about any lgbtq+ fans are thinking about going over— about any lgbtq+ fans are thinking about going over to _ about any lgbtq+ fans are thinking about going over to the _ about any lgbtq+ fans are thinkingj about going over to the settlement, because _ about going over to the settlement, because i_ about going over to the settlement, because i think— about going over to the settlement, because i think there _ about going over to the settlement, because i think there is— about going over to the settlement, because i think there is a _ about going over to the settlement, because i think there is a fear- about going over to the settlement, because i think there is a fear for. because i think there is a fear for their— because i think there is a fear for their safety _ because i think there is a fear for their safety. we _ because i think there is a fear for their safety. we have _ because i think there is a fear for their safety. we have a _ because i think there is a fear for their safety. we have a kata - because i think there is a fear for| their safety. we have a kata have because i think there is a fear for. their safety. we have a kata have a massive u-turn _ their safety. we have a kata have a massive u—turn in _ their safety. we have a kata have a massive u—turn in terms _ their safety. we have a kata have a massive u—turn in terms of- their safety. we have a kata have a massive u—turn in terms of the - massive u—turn in terms of the alcohol— massive u—turn in terms of the alcohol sales _ massive u—turn in terms of the alcohol sales —— _ massive u—turn in terms of the alcohol sales —— we _ massive u—turn in terms of the alcohol sales —— we have - massive u—turn in terms of the i alcohol sales —— we have already seen _ alcohol sales —— we have already seen qatar— alcohol sales —— we have already seen qatar have _ alcohol sales —— we have already seen qatar have a _ alcohol sales —— we have already seen qatar have a massive - alcohol sales —— we have already. seen qatar have a massive u—turn. because _ seen qatar have a massive u—turn. because they — seen qatar have a massive u—turn. because they have _ seen qatar have a massive u—turn. because they have said _ seen qatar have a massive u—turn. because they have said everybodyl seen qatar have a massive u—turn. i because they have said everybody is welcome, but, gary, often at the world cup is a genuinely unifying moment, and it is a moment for of joyful people around the world, but do you think this year the middle change once the games start, or not? i agree with chloe, i think it was the wrong decision. we support an lgbt+ charity in football, title match only a ball game, and we have raised concerns about qatar's human rights record for a long are increasingly dependent on countries like qatar, so there needs to be a debate about the world cup,

but also things like energy and about where we are sourcing our energy needs from. with about where we are sourcing our energy needs from.— about where we are sourcing our energy needs from. with a northern irishman, energy needs from. with a northern irishman. a — energy needs from. with a northern irishman, a scotsman, _ energy needs from. with a northern irishman, a scotsman, and - energy needs from. with a northern irishman, a scotsman, and an - energy needs from. with a northern i irishman, a scotsman, and an english football player, ifeel a bit troubled about asking who you are spot on, so instead i will ask you, chloe, what could be england men's team learn from the england women's team? , ., . ., team learn from the england women's team? , ., _, .,' team learn from the england women's team? , ., ., team? they have come off a fantastic summer, team? they have come off a fantastic summer. winning _ team? they have come off a fantastic summer, winning the _ team? they have come off a fantastic summer, winning the euros _ team? they have come off a fantastic summer, winning the euros was - team? they have come off a fantastic. summer, winning the euros was great, galvanising _ summer, winning the euros was great, galvanising the — summer, winning the euros was great, galvanising the mission _ summer, winning the euros was great, galvanising the mission and _ summer, winning the euros was great, galvanising the mission and getting - galvanising the mission and getting behind _ galvanising the mission and getting behind a _ galvanising the mission and getting behind a fantastic _ galvanising the mission and getting behind a fantastic win, _ galvanising the mission and getting behind a fantastic win, but - galvanising the mission and getting behind a fantastic win, but i- galvanising the mission and getting behind a fantastic win, but i think. behind a fantastic win, but i think the england — behind a fantastic win, but i think the england men's— behind a fantastic win, but i think the england men's team - behind a fantastic win, but i think the england men's team now- behind a fantastic win, but i thinkl the england men's team now gone behind a fantastic win, but i think- the england men's team now gone into the england men's team now gone into the stone _ the england men's team now gone into the stone that— the england men's team now gone into the stone that are _ the england men's team now gone into the stone that are facing _ the england men's team now gone into the stone that are facing a _ the england men's team now gone into the stone that are facing a lot - the stone that are facing a lot of issues _ the stone that are facing a lot of issues behind _ the stone that are facing a lot of issues behind the _ the stone that are facing a lot of issues behind the scenes- the stone that are facing a lot of issues behind the scenes with i the stone that are facing a lot of. issues behind the scenes with what issues behind the scenes with what is going _ issues behind the scenes with what is going on in— issues behind the scenes with what is going on in qatar, _ issues behind the scenes with what is going on in qatar, they- issues behind the scenes with what is going on in qatar, they have - issues behind the scenes with what is going on in qatar, they have to. is going on in qatar, they have to grapple _ is going on in qatar, they have to grapple these _ is going on in qatar, they have to grapple these moral— is going on in qatar, they have to grapple these moral and - grapple these moral and ethical issues _ grapple these moral and ethical issues as— grapple these moral and ethical issues as well— grapple these moral and ethical issues as well as _ grapple these moral and ethical issues as well as their- grapple these moral and ethical- issues as well as their performance. i issues as well as their performance. i know— issues as well as their performance. i know the _ issues as well as their performance. i know the men's— issues as well as their performance. i know the men's team _ issues as well as their performance. i know the men's team has - issues as well as their performance. i know the men's team hasjust- i know the men's team hasjust invited — i know the men's team hasjust invited the _ i know the men's team hasjust invited the migrant— i know the men's team hasjust invited the migrant workers - i know the men's team hasjusti invited the migrant workers over i know the men's team hasjust- invited the migrant workers over for a training _ invited the migrant workers over for a training session. _ invited the migrant workers over for a training session, which _ invited the migrant workers over for a training session, which was - a training session, which was amazing. _ a training session, which was amazing. but— a training session, which was amazing, but for— a training session, which was amazing, but for me - a training session, which was amazing, but for me i- a training session, which was amazing, but for me i would i a training session, which was . amazing, but for me i would like a training session, which was - amazing, but for me i would like to see these _ amazing, but for me i would like to see these players _ amazing, but for me i would like to see these players using _ see these players using their platform _ see these players using their platform is— see these players using their platform is to _ see these players using their platform is to be _ see these players using their platform is to be able - see these players using their platform is to be able to - see these players using their. platform is to be able to speak see these players using their- platform is to be able to speak out on these _ platform is to be able to speak out on these issues. _ platform is to be able to speak out on these issues. i— platform is to be able to speak out on these issues. i know— platform is to be able to speak out on these issues. i know harry- platform is to be able to speak out| on these issues. i know harry kane is wearing — on these issues. i know harry kane is wearing the _ on these issues. i know harry kane is wearing the armband, _ on these issues. i know harry kane is wearing the armband, which - is wearing the armband, which is amazing. — is wearing the armband, which is amazing. but— is wearing the armband, which is amazing. but i_ is wearing the armband, which is amazing, but i have _ is wearing the armband, which is amazing, but i have also - is wearing the armband, which is

amazing, but i have also seen i is wearing the armband, which is i amazing, but i have also seen that fifa have _ amazing, but i have also seen that fifa have announced _ amazing, but i have also seen that fifa have announced some - amazing, but i have also seen that. fifa have announced some guidance about— fifa have announced some guidance about the _ fifa have announced some guidance about the new— fifa have announced some guidance about the new armband _ fifa have announced some guidance about the new armband is _ fifa have announced some guidance about the new armband is the... . fifa have announced some guidancel about the new armband is the... ifulfill about the new armband is the... will see how about the new armband is the... see how they handle it, check it out when i was all over the place. kick off of the first match is today, as we mentioned. if you want to chew over a bit more of the dilemmas around the world cup, listen to my old friends on newscast on bbc sounds. adam fleming and chris mason are there, and in the latest episode, they talk about what england and wales fans can expect from the tournament this time round. now, i've always promised you good news, and i really meant it — ready? we rise together, back to the moon and beyond. the artemis mission run by nasa wants to send men and women back to the moon, and soon. a human being last walked on the moon in 1972. but after weather and gremlins, the rocket finally launched this week. and it's up there right now.

we can check in — these are the most recent pictures taken from the spaceship. we can show you right now — this is where artemis i is in space, a mere 60,000 miles from the moon. i've been talking to nasa scientist howard hu. he is in charge of the orion capsule. forgive the technical explanation — that's the bit that sits on top of the rocket, where the human crew will eventually strap in. after years of work, how did it feel to watch the craft safely blast off? it was an unbelievable feeling. goose bumps, certainly i would say when i saw it left off, it was a dream. it is the first step we are taking to long term deep space exploration, notjust for the united states but for the world.—

states but for the world. three, two, states but for the world. three, two. one. _ states but for the world. three, two. one. lift — states but for the world. three, two, one, lift off! _ states but for the world. three, two, one, lift off! it— states but for the world. three, two, one, lift off! it is— states but for the world. three, two, one, lift off! it is a - states but for the world. three, two, one, lift off! it is a historicj two, one, lift off! it is a historic da for two, one, lift off! it is a historic day for nasa. — two, one, lift off! it is a historic day for nasa, but _ two, one, lift off! it is a historic day for nasa, but also - two, one, lift off! it is a historic day for nasa, but also for - two, one, lift off! it is a historic day for nasa, but also for all i two, one, lift off! it is a historic| day for nasa, but also for all the people who love human space flight and deep space exploration. we are going back to the moon, we are working towards a sustainable programme, and this is the vehicle that will carry the people that will land that will carry the people that will [and us back on the moon again, and i think this is one of the most important moments, i think, as we think about what the apollo generation has done, and now the artemis generation. this generation has done, and now the artemis generation.— artemis generation. this is the first of three _ artemis generation. this is the first of three artemis - artemis generation. this is the first of three artemis missions| artemis generation. this is the - first of three artemis missions with the ultimate goal of getting people back to a base on the moon. what are the next steps? how do you plan to make that happen? i would say it is more than just three. artemis too will be our test flight of crew members, then three

will be our first landing. flight of crew members, then three will be ourfirst landing. then flight of crew members, then three will be our first landing. then we will be our first landing. then we will have four, five and six, and will have four, five and six, and will be utilising what we call the gateway, it will be an orbiting platform around the moon that we will go to it with 0rion in the future, and then go down to the surface. so it will be a good platform for us, maybe a rest stop, if you want to call it that, to be able to get there and get ready and then go down to the minute comeback, then go down to the minute comeback, then come home on orion. so you're going to have a truck stop going round the moon? yeah, if you want to think about it that way. what's it like for you when you're seeing the data come back, seeing the pictures? are you watching like an anxious parent or are you so in the detail of the engineering? that is a great analogy, anxious parent. ijust sent my daughter to college, so it is kind of like you're seeing your child and all the work you have done go off, and certainly anxious is a good word, but also excitement. and seeing the success that you knew was going to

be there, being deflected back through pictures and videos, and through pictures and videos, and through our data. how will we know if this mission is a success? we have four primary objectives on this mission. the first one is, one of the big things... i will bring back the model. one of the big things as our heat shield. this is the capital that returns the crew safely back to earth, and the heat shield is a very important component to support the re—entry environment. to get to that kind of temperature, you need a win return philosophy, you need a win return philosophy, you need a high velocity, 25,000 mph, and the only way to do it is to do an orbit like you're trying to do and give that return velocity, so you can say that huw and give that return velocity, so you can say that hquones as we designed, going to be able to provide this safety that the true needs to return to earth. this is

one of our primary objectives, the next is to check out the systems that have to operate in space, so we will have plenty of time in this 26 day mission to do that. the other thing is we would like the capsule back, that is then important, we want to survive and return the capsule. right now there's no humans on board, you're testing the system, but have you got any mascots, anything else in the crew module for the journey? we have a mannequin, who is sitting in the commander's seat. they are collecting data for us. we also have a seat so that when we land, we can determine what we call the structural loads as the crew member, when it lands on the water, the crew member obviously it will feel some load on them from the landing, and we want to be able to measure that, so we have got a mannequin. i can tell talking to you how exciting the launch was, and it was a success.

but almost up to the last minute, there were some technical difficulties. can you tell us about the red team of technicians who you sent in to make sure it actually happened? i watched it, iwatched it, i i watched it, i am not part of the ground team, so i was only an observer, i would say. the red team that went in, we had a leak on one of the valves on the ground system, and they went and tightened it. with all the technology, think about, you still need a wrench and a talk valve, they were able to tighten it. there was a huge amount of fuel on board, a dangerous situation. even at the last minute, you have guys going in with a wrench to tighten things up so it can get in the sky. was it dangerous for them? i cannot tell you too much details, we would never put anybody in a situation where it was dangerous, they were fully trained. and when do you think there might be people living on the moon? certainly on this decade. they will

be living, they will have habitats, thatis be living, they will have habitats, that is what we are also working on, so we are working on getting people down from the surface of the men, but they still have to have infrastructure, they have to have a habitat to live in, they have a fancy rover they are going to drive around, but ultimately it is more than living, it is really about science. we are going to the south pole because the theory is there's ice and they be able to extract water, that is huge, being able to convert that into potential fuel for our propulsion systems, that is going to be a very interesting scientific... but also just the geological aspects of it. we did collect lunar rocks and things like that, but if there are organisms that, but if there are organisms that are embedded in that ice and things like that, could we be able to discover something new? within

this decade. _ to discover something new? within this decade. you — to discover something new? within this decade, you think— to discover something new? within this decade, you think there - to discover something new? within this decade, you think there will i to discover something new? within j this decade, you think there will be people there? hate this decade, you think there will be people there?— this decade, you think there will be --eole there? ~ . , ., people there? we want people on the surface and doing _ people there? we want people on the surface and doing science. _ people there? we want people on the surface and doing science. in - people there? we want people on the surface and doing science. in the - surface and doing science. in the very long-term. _ surface and doing science. in the very long-term, what _ surface and doing science. in the very long-term, what are - surface and doing science. in the very long-term, what are you i surface and doing science. in the - very long-term, what are you hoping very long—term, what are you hoping to achieve by putting people on the moon? ~ ., to achieve by putting people on the moon? a, ., ., , ., , to achieve by putting people on the moon? ., ., , ., , ., moon? moving forward is really to mars. moon? moving forward is really to mars- that — moon? moving forward is really to mars- that a _ moon? moving forward is really to mars. that a bigger— moon? moving forward is really to mars. that a bigger stepping - moon? moving forward is really to i mars. that a bigger stepping stone, a biggerjourney potentially depending on the orbit you take, so it's really going to be very important for us to learn a little beyond our earth orbit and then do a big step when we go to mars. there is some discussion _ big step when we go to mars. there is some discussion that _ big step when we go to mars. there is some discussion that by - big step when we go to mars. there is some discussion that by putting people in space, you could create environments where people are safely away from some of the worst ravages of climate change. do you think safe habitat for human beings? hate of climate change. do you think safe habitat for human beings?— habitat for human beings? we are t in: to habitat for human beings? we are trying to really — habitat for human beings? we are trying to really provide _ habitat for human beings? we are trying to really provide the - trying to really provide the foundation. it is the first steps you need to take, you need to build a transportation system, you need to understand what it takes to operate

and live in that kind of environment. these are the stepping stones that hopefully will allow this future capability that you are describing and give those opportunities and that option for our kids and grandkids and their kids. . . our kids and grandkids and their kids. . , ., ., . kids. one last thing, how on earth are ou kids. one last thing, how on earth are you going _ kids. one last thing, how on earth are you going to — kids. one last thing, how on earth are you going to choose _ kids. one last thing, how on earth are you going to choose the - kids. one last thing, how on earthj are you going to choose the crew? kids. one last thing, how on earth i are you going to choose the crew? it is a hot ticket, surely? sham are you going to choose the crew? it is a hot ticket, surely?— is a hot ticket, surely? am sure everyone _ is a hot ticket, surely? am sure everyone is _ is a hot ticket, surely? am sure everyone is raising _ is a hot ticket, surely? am sure everyone is raising their- is a hot ticket, surely? am sure everyone is raising their hand i is a hot ticket, surely? am sure j everyone is raising their hand in the astronaut office and i'm glad i don't have to be part of that selection. it will be a tough call certainly. selection. it will be a tough call certainl . ., ., ., ,, , ., certainly. howard, thank you so much. appreciate _ certainly. howard, thank you so much. appreciate it. _ certainly. howard, thank you so much. appreciate it. don't- certainly. howard, thank you so i much. appreciate it. don't worry, not that we are a —— obsessed with it or anything, but we will be keeping an eye on the artemis mission in the next few weeks. now back to earth with a bump — the chancellor's statement on thursday set the stage for tough times — tax rises and spending cuts. last week on the show,

we heard his opposite number rachel reeves say that labour would bejust as responsible with your cash, but wouldn't hike taxes on ordinary workers. how would they do that? labour's work and pensions shadow ministerjonathan ashworth is here. and was also saying the national space centre is in leicester, and you are the mp for leicester south so it a nice blog. but talking about the health service, would labour have given the nhs the full £7 billion it asked for? , ., , billion it asked for? remember as we went into the — billion it asked for? remember as we went into the pandemic, _ billion it asked for? remember as we went into the pandemic, waiting - went into the pandemic, waiting lists were at [i went into the pandemic, waiting lists were at 4 million, they are now at 7 million. we have 400,000 people waiting beyond a year for treatment, that is 4.5 wembley stadiums. the typical weight has doubled to 14 weeks, and that's not just misery for patients, it's having a direct impact on our economic performance as well. would labour economic performance as well. would labour have — economic performance as well. would labour have given _ economic performance as well. would labour have given the _ economic performance as well. would labour have given the nhs _ economic performance as well. would labour have given the nhs the - economic performance as well. would labour have given the nhs the full £7 billion it asked for? the labour have given the nhs the full £7 billion it asked for?— £7 billion it asked for? the nhs does need _ £7 billion it asked for? the nhs does need investment - £7 billion it asked for? the nhs does need investment but - £7 billion it asked for? the nhs does need investment but it - £7 billion it asked for? the nhsl does need investment but it also needs staff and we have outlined we would get rid of the non—dom tax

relief and use the proceeds to recruit the doctors and nurses, the clinical staff that our nhs needs. if you were in government right now and the nhs said it needed £7 billion to cope with all sorts of costs, would labour have given the full amount?— costs, would labour have given the full amount? look at our history, we have always properly _ full amount? look at our history, we have always properly funded - full amount? look at our history, we have always properly funded the - full amount? look at our history, we| have always properly funded the nhs and the last time we were in government we brought waiting lists down to the lowest on record. satisfaction with the nhs was at its highest. if we were in government, we will take measures to grow our economy, and if you do that, you have more money to invest in public services. we are not in government today, and when we are in government we will make a full assessment of the needs of the nhs and fund it properly. but you have got to grow your economy, and one of the ways your economy, and one of the ways you do that, particularly after 12 years of this very poor economic performance under conservatives is that we have to invest in jobs and skills. we will create newjobs by

investment in renewables and hydrogen but also help more people move into work. when we have sickness rates at 2.5 million people forced out of work because of sickness, increasing numbers of over 50s leaving the labour market as well, i want to reform the way our job centres were to give people the support and help, the retraining if necessary to move into work. that will mean linking upjob centres with the nhs actually. fin a will mean linking upjob centres with the nhs actually. on a point of --rincile, with the nhs actually. on a point of principle. if — with the nhs actually. on a point of principle, if labour _ with the nhs actually. on a point of principle, if labour wins _ with the nhs actually. on a point of principle, if labour wins the - with the nhs actually. on a point of principle, if labour wins the next i principle, if labour wins the next election, would you spend more on the nhs than the conservatives have been doing? the the nhs than the conservatives have been doin: ? ,, the nhs than the conservatives have been doing?— been doing? the nhs will always be rotected been doing? the nhs will always be protected under _ been doing? the nhs will always be protected under a _ been doing? the nhs will always be protected under a labour— been doing? the nhs will always be i protected under a labour government. that wasn't my question. you protected under a labour government. that wasn't my question.— that wasn't my question. you are askin: that wasn't my question. you are asking me _ that wasn't my question. you are asking me to _ that wasn't my question. you are asking me to outline _ that wasn't my question. you are asking me to outline spending i asking me to outline spending commitments... the asking me to outline spending commitments... ,., . commitments... the government have . iven commitments... the government have given them- — commitments... the government have given them- but _ commitments... the government have given them. but they've _ commitments... the government have given them. but they've also _ commitments... the government have given them. but they've also given - given them. but they've also given for our five — given them. but they've also given

for our five fiscal _ given them. but they've also given for our five fiscal statements - given them. but they've also given| for our five fiscal statements where everything is bounced around all over the shop. we have another two years ago, we will have more statements and budgets but in our manifesto we will outline our spending commitments and they will all be costed. spending commitments and they will all be costed— all be costed. what you have said is that everything _ all be costed. what you have said is that everything will _ all be costed. what you have said is that everything will have _ all be costed. what you have said is that everything will have to - all be costed. what you have said is that everything will have to be - that everything will have to be costed, now we have heard repeatedly from your colleague rachel reeves that everything has to be taken responsibly, that she will have restraint and control on public services. that is the right thing to do. and labour has accepted there is a hole in public finances of around £50 billion, how would labourfill that? £50 billion, how would labour fill that? ~ ., £50 billion, how would labour fill that? ~ . , . �* that? we are expecting the obr projections- _ that? we are expecting the obr projections- we _ that? we are expecting the obr projections. we have _ that? we are expecting the obr projections. we have a - that? we are expecting the obr projections. we have a clear- that? we are expecting the obr i projections. we have a clear fiscal projections. we have a clearfiscal framework, we will balance current spending and it will be paid for because that is the responsible approach. because that is the responsible a- roach. . ., because that is the responsible a--roach. . ., ., because that is the responsible approach-_ but i because that is the responsible | approach._ but we because that is the responsible - approach._ but we will approach. paid for how? but we will have debt falling _ approach. paid for how? but we will have debt falling as _ approach. paid for how? but we will have debt falling as a _ approach. paid for how? but we will have debt falling as a proportion - approach. paid for how? but we will have debt falling as a proportion of| have debt falling as a proportion of gdp, but we are going to invest in green industries, in renewables, in

hydrogen to bring back good quality, skilled unionised jobs across the country. because that is important to bring people's bills down but it's also important for future economic growth. it it's also important for future economic growth.— it's also important for future economic growth. it will also be very expensive _ economic growth. it will also be very expensive but _ economic growth. it will also be very expensive but i _ economic growth. it will also be very expensive but i ask - economic growth. it will also be very expensive but i ask again, | economic growth. it will also be - very expensive but i ask again, how would you fill the hole in the public finances that you have accepted exists? mr; public finances that you have accepted exists?— public finances that you have accepted exists? public finances that you have acceted exists? y , ., accepted exists? my point is that we have two years _ accepted exists? my point is that we have two years and _ accepted exists? my point is that we have two years and in _ accepted exists? my point is that we have two years and in those - accepted exists? my point is that we have two years and in those two - have two years and in those two years we will have more fiscal statements and budgets so i'm not going to write budgets for 2026 and 2027 this morning. but in our manifesto every commitment we make will be fully costed. but we will never be cavalier and reckless because that leads to people's mortgages going up.— mortgages going up. labour is willin: to mortgages going up. labour is willing to tell— mortgages going up. labour is willing to tell us _ mortgages going up. labour is willing to tell us some - mortgages going up. labour is willing to tell us some things i willing to tell us some things sometimes, so you said you would close the non—dom loophole, so you would forgive people for wanting to know how you would fill the hole. one of the things we would do is grow the economy.—

grow the economy. everyone wants to... but grow the economy. everyone wants to--- butthe— grow the economy. everyone wants to... but the conservatives - grow the economy. everyone wants| to... but the conservatives haven't, have they? — to... but the conservatives haven't, have they? i — to. .. but the conservatives haven't, have they? i think— to. .. but the conservatives haven't, have they? i think our— to... but the conservatives haven't, have they? i think our viewers - to... but the conservatives haven't, have they? i think our viewers do i have they? i think our viewers do want to know _ have they? i think our viewers do want to know how _ have they? i think our viewers do want to know how you _ have they? i think our viewers do want to know how you would - have they? i think our viewers do | want to know how you would close have they? i think our viewers do - want to know how you would close the gap in public finances. mr; want to know how you would close the gap in public finances.— gap in public finances. my big ambition is _ gap in public finances. my big ambition is to _ gap in public finances. my big ambition is to aim _ gap in public finances. my big ambition is to aim towards i gap in public finances. my big | ambition is to aim towards the highest employment rates in the g7, that means we need to give people support, if they are out of work because of sickness or and over 50 who has left the workplace because they may be caring for grandchildren are a parent who might have dementia, we need to give this group of people more support and help to move back into work. all the government announced it is a review, i'm announcing action so i will bet link thejob centre i'm announcing action so i will bet link the job centre with health service because an increasing burden of people leaving work is because of mental health. where this has happened in the country, for every pound that was spent, 1.75 was returned so it makes economic sense.

how many people of those who were not currently in work would you want to see going into work? the government _ to see going into work? the government have _ to see going into work? the: government have underspent to see going into work? tta: government have underspent by to see going into work? tt9 government have underspent by £2 billion on their own employment services. £2 billion investment over a five year period or to help a million extra people with jobs apart. these are the sort of measures we should be taking to increase the labour supply. by the way, increasing labour supply is also the way in which you deal with inflation problems.— inflation problems. would you -romise inflation problems. would you promise you _ inflation problems. would you promise you would _ inflation problems. would you promise you would get - inflation problems. would you promise you would get a - inflation problems. would you i promise you would get a million people who are currently not in work back into jobs? people who are currently not in work back intojobs? bi people who are currently not in work back into jobs?— people who are currently not in work back into jobs? at the moment if the government — back into jobs? at the moment if the government used _ back into jobs? at the moment if the government used the _ back into jobs? at the moment if the government used the underspend i back into jobs? at the moment if the government used the underspend in | government used the underspend in their own employment schemes, that's how many people they would help. but the government have to decide what to do with that underspend. it is not fully yet in the obr budgets what they are cutting. haifa not fully yet in the obr budgets what they are cutting. how many eo - le what they are cutting. how many people who _ what they are cutting. how many people who are _ what they are cutting. how many people who are not _ what they are cutting. how many people who are not currently - what they are cutting. how many - people who are not currently working would you try to get back into jobs? at the moment it's gone up to 2.5 million. there is also huge numbers

of over 50s who have left the labour market who would go back. a conservative estimate suggests there is a 700,000 people who would return to work with the right support. some have suggested it is as high as 1.5 million. overall when combined with our unemployment rate of over 2 million, there is possibly 3 million people in this country looking to go back to work but who need help with retraining and support. that's what i'm looking at and they are the reforms i want to bring intojob centres. reforms i want to bring into 'ob centres. �* . reforms i want to bring into 'ob centres. �* , centres. i'm sure in the coming months you _ centres. i'm sure in the coming months you will— centres. i'm sure in the coming months you will come - centres. i'm sure in the coming months you will come back - centres. i'm sure in the coming months you will come back and centres. i'm sure in the coming - months you will come back and talk to us again as you develop more detail on that plan but thank you for now. right, it's nearly 10.00. we know the spending decisions announced this week by the chancellor will have real consequences for everyone. we asked this morning how much will it hurt us all?

well, the delay in fixing the social care system will certianly have real world consequences. here's what the health secretary, steve barclay, had to say about it: these challenges are due to the pressure we face from the pandemic, that's why we have had to take the difficult decision, and it is a difficult decision, and it is a difficult decision. the chancellor himself when doing myjob as health secretary was very committed to these reforms and that's why it has been a difficult decision to delay. just time for a final word with our panel. with me are tony danker, gary smith, and chloe morgan. let's talk about the rocket at the end. we have had a lot of doom and gloom in politics. you were all smiling when you are watching it, what did you think? t smiling when you are watching it, what did you think?— smiling when you are watching it, what did you think? i love that guy, i want him in _ what did you think? i love that guy, i want him in my — what did you think? i love that guy, i want him in my gang. _ what did you think? i love that guy, i want him in my gang. i— what did you think? i love that guy, i want him in my gang. i want- what did you think? i love that guy, i want him in my gang. i want to i what did you think? i love that guy, | i want him in my gang. i want to put howard together with jeremy i want him in my gang. i want to put howard together withjeremy hunt to design a plan for growth for britain that takes us to the moon and back. there we go, slogans all over. t there we go, slogans all over. i would put steve backley on the rocket. — would put steve backley on the rocket, and then we can sort out his mess— rocket, and then we can sort out his mess in— rocket, and then we can sort out his mess in health and social care and -et mess in health and social care and get wages —

mess in health and social care and get wages started out as well. | get wages started out as well. mean, get wages started out as well. i mean, how do i follow that? i thought— mean, how do i follow that? i thought it _ mean, how do i follow that? i thought it was _ mean, how do i follow that? i thought it was amazing. i mean, how do i follow that? i thought it was amazing. for. mean, how do i follow that? i. thought it was amazing. for me obviously— thought it was amazing. for me obviously we _ thought it was amazing. for me obviously we learnt _ thought it was amazing. for me obviously we learnt about i thought it was amazing. for me obviously we learnt about the i obviously we learnt about the previous _ obviously we learnt about the previous moon _ obviously we learnt about the previous moon landing i obviously we learnt about the i previous moon landing before, but obviously we learnt about the - previous moon landing before, but to no that— previous moon landing before, but to no that could — previous moon landing before, but to no that could happen _ previous moon landing before, but to no that could happen again _ previous moon landing before, but to no that could happen again in - previous moon landing before, but to no that could happen again in my- no that could happen again in my lifetime — no that could happen again in my lifetime would _ no that could happen again in my lifetime would be _ no that could happen again in my lifetime would be unreal- no that could happen again in my lifetime would be unreal to- no that could happen again in my lifetime would be unreal to see. i no that could happen again in my. lifetime would be unreal to see. find lifetime would be unreal to see. and i am auoin lifetime would be unreal to see. and i am going to — lifetime would be unreal to see. i am going to ask you all who you are supporting at the world cup. i know we have a northern irishman, an englishman and a scotswoman but i assume you are supporting england? england. i will be supporting england. i will be supporting england just to upset the others. ending _ england just to upset the others. ending with a very warm message to all the teams. i am supporting england and wales throughout the tournament, no question about that. a huge thank you to all of you this morning. we had chloe's take on what to enjoy, or not, about the footballing spectacle in the next couple of weeks in qatar. a dilemma there, just as there are dilemmas at home.

we've heard that rare thing, a union boss and a business boss agree that the government's recipe is missing ingredients for success. and the health secretary admitted a solution for one of the biggest problems that faces so many of us, care for the most vulnerable and elderly, still has to wait. i might forgive you for wanting to move to the moon. don't forget, we love hearing from you, and you can share your experiences by getting in touch any time, or catch up on anything you might have missed on iplayer whenever you like. but from me, goodbye for now. i'll see you next week, same time, same place.

this is bbc news broadcasting in the uk and around the globe. our top stories. delegates at the un climate conference in egypt agree a major deal on climate change. however there's been criticism that the overall plan lacks ambition. the first ever world cup to be held in the middle east kicks off later today. quite i will play ecuador this afternoon. —— quite i will play ecuador this afternoon. -- qatar. malaysia's general election results are in, but for the first time ever there's no outright winner. donald trump's twitter account is reinstated after a public poll sees 52% of voters back the former us president's return. the housing secretary, michael gove, has written to every council and social housing provider in england, to warn that deaths like that of two—year—old awaab ishak must "never be allowed to happen again".