mrs obama, thank you so much forjoining us. it is a real pleasure and an honour to talk to you. thank you. honour to be with you as well. thanks for having me. let's talk about the book, the light we carry. it offers, kind of, strategies about how to cope with life and the things you've learnt along the way. one of the themes you discuss is kindness. so i'd really like to know — how have you been kind to yourself today? well, thank you for asking. as i point out in the book, i don't have all the answers. i am still a work in progress, and facing myself each morning with something kind is still a challenge. but i try every day to do as i say in the book — greet myself with a positive message. and it's really a shame that

so many of us, particularly women, that we have a hard time just, sort of, looking at our own image and not tearing it apart and figuring out what's wrong. but i think that that's at the core of some of our unease and unhappiness, because if we don't start out by learning to love ourselves as we are, it's hard to to pass that on to others. so i am working on it every single day. so, what was the thing you said today that was kind to yourself? what have i said? i've said i love the jacket i'm wearing. i'm with you. i started there. "i like what i'm wearing today. i think i look cute." i'm not going to disagree. you know, it's so interesting, because you are seen as a powerhouse. you're seen as this confident woman, this established woman, this smart woman. so i don't understand how it squares

with what you describe as yourfearful mind. you say you've lived with it for 58 years, and you say which, and i quote, "hates how i look all the time and no matter what". i'll be honest with you, if you're feeling like this, what hope do the rest of us have? well, i think that's the point of sharing it. we all have those thoughts, those negative thoughts that we've lived with for years, especially as women. and as women of colour, where we don't see ourselves reflected in our society. i think we're in a better position. but one of the things i talked about was what it was like growing up notjust as a black woman, but as a tall black woman. before the serena and venus years, before we had the wnba, that we had role models other than gymnasts to look up to.

it is important for us to see who we can be in order to feel good about ourselves. but fear is also the ability to decode. the fear that naturally arises in all of us, i've learned, is a critical tool to have, because fear is a powerful emotion. it can keep us safe, but it can also keep us stuck. and that is something that so many of us find that we're in. as we read signals as fear as a reason to step back and away from something, rather than leaning in and getting comfortable in the jolt that comes with trying something new. so i share how important it is, in the book, to learn how to master that thing. because if you can master yourfear, if you can become comfortably afraid, be afraid of the things that can actually cause you danger, but be open to the things that

can push you forward, that there's real powerful, powerful growth on the other side of that feeling of fear. and i can say now that everything that i am today is the result of me pushing past my comfort zone, quieting my fearful mind, and taking on that challenge that might have otherwise held me back. well, one of the biggest challenges you refer to when you talk about fear, you say, "the most anxious i've ever been in my life was when barack obama told me for the first time that he wanted to run for president of the united states. and it's strange that i could have altered the course of history with my fear." you know, you could have said no. you know you had that option, and it would have stood. are you pleased you said yes? iam. i think to take a moment to talk

about the man that i love, i think that barack was a consequential leader. i think, you know, for so many young people, notjust here in america, but around the world, they grew up knowing only a black president, an african—american family in the white house. they saw themselves in one of the most powerful positions on earth. if you just count that alone, not to mention all of his accomplishments from a policy perspective, it was absolutely worth taking that leap of faith. but that's why i share that story. i want people to sit with how fear can catch us up, because i had to work through what was keeping. ..what would have kept me from saying yes. and what it was, was me not wanting to change — not wanting to change my life, going to a new city, doing something i didn't know, making new friends, trying something hard.

but i had to unpack that and realise that we had the tools to get through all of that. we had done it before. we were practised in it. i didn't want to share that type of doubt with my girls. i had to think about the story i wanted them to tell about our family. and i didn't want to be at the core of it and have them say, "my father could have been president of the united states, but we didn't do it because my mother was afraid." i didn't want to tell that story. i lived through the legacy of too many people, particularly african—american people, my grandfathers included, whose lives were constricted by their fear of something different. one of your grandfathers actually became very ill because of his fear of seeing a doctor or a dentist. that is one of the... that's the flip side of letting fear keep your world small and stuck.

my grandfathers grew up in a generation ofjim crow and segregation, and there were real fears in that. a black man showing up in the wrong neighbourhood at the wrong time, in the wrong place, looking the wrong way could mean his death. so, with each passing year, i feel like my grandfather's world got smaller and smaller and smaller — both of them — to the point where they didn't trust anyone that that they didn't know, not even doctors. and that, you know, with one of my grandparents, led him to miss a diagnosis of lung cancer. so i use that as an example of how so many of us are locked in our sameness, afraid to meet or understand anyone that doesn't look like us, feel like us, agree with us. that keeps our world small, and it makes us susceptible to disinformation, conspiracy theories, all that we

are confronted with. we start to fear anyone who's not like us. that's not a healthy place. so i want young people in particular to think about that jolt of fear when they're confronted with it, to be able to distinguish between the fear — again — that's going to keep them safe, and the fear that's going to keep them stuck in a small world. and, interestingly, i'd be keen to know who you leant on when it comes to friends, when it comes to the tools you learnt about, because you compare the campaign for running for president as an evel knievel motorcycle stunt, a bike flying through the air. so what did you use? who did you use when it felt that you were unseated? you know, this is where adaptability and practice and being surrounded by a supportive community helped a lot. we had a very competent campaign

team, top advisers, you know? i had a mother who stepped in when needed to be that extra foundation of support for ourfamily, my brother, my girlfriends. i mean, that's why building that big, strong kitchen table is so important — to have those resources, the people that serve as your safety net, particularly if you're on a high—flying motorcycle, that is a presidential campaign. it's interesting, because i'd wonder what your state of mind was like during that hectic, intense time. because you've said in the book that if you had a stray thought, an unresolved hurt, an uncategorised feeling, you'd put it on a distant mental shelf and you'd figure, "i'll come back to it later during a less busy time." well, that was an immensely intensely busy time. and ijust wonder, have you ever gone back to that shelf

and have you cleared it? and what was that like? well, those shelves in our lives never get completely cleared. but i have done a lot of revisiting. and as i write in the book, this quarantine period, this long period of isolation for me, what that forced stillness we were all subjected to forced me to sit in my quietness because i didn't have "busy" as a defence mechanism. i didn't have the distractions of "busy". and let me qualify that by saying — and i was lucky — because i was in an income bracket where we had a stable home, where we were not essential workers, where we weren't a part of the community of people who had to put their lives at risk to help save us all. so i'm not complaining, but i'm

saying that that was probably the first time in most of my adult life where i couldn't be busy any longer, and i had to sit in my own thoughts and sort through, "how did i get here? what does this all mean? how did our country, our world, get into the mess that we're in?" and my book, this current book, the light we carry, was the product of that stewing, that unwinding and unwrapping and trying to make sense of it all. so this book is a product of my not busyness, the unpacking of those worries and thoughts that i put on a shelf for most of my life. you talk about visibility and you talk about the importance of being seen and about many minority groups which are not seen, still. and you say, "we need to stay aware of whose stories are being told and whose are being erased." who at this moment in time do you think isn't being seen?

you know, the irony is, is i think there are more and more people who feel like they don't matter on this planet. you know, and i talk about what it feels like to be different. you know, i open up the book by talking about difference and how it defines so much about how we see one another and how we see the world. but you'll notice that i also define difference very broadly. it is notjust race and gender, but it's economic status. it's whether you live in the city or on a farm. it's how you learn, how you love, how you feel. there's so many of us who feel marginalised. and that's a curious thing that we... because we live in such a complicated planet, that's so many of us

don't feel seen. i'm trying to express my view of what different—ness feels like, but i think that that's where the work happens. we cannot wait for other people to see us, because some of the people that we think see us feel marginalised themselves. they don't feel seen or heard. so we have to start from within. you know, the first question you asked about starting kind is like, if i'm waiting for somebody else to tell me that i matter, that i look good, that i'm ok, i could be waiting a long time. not because they don't believe it, but they're focused on their survival. they're focused on their own personaljourney. we can't wait around for one another to see us. the work we have to do first is seeing ourselves. that message of positivity was one that you and your husband barack took on the campaign trail.

kindness, being seen, people counting. what have you taken from the fact that the us electorate decided to replace barack obama with donald trump? in the book, you say it still hurts. does it? it... and it still hurts. but that's that point in time when you have to ask yourself, was it worth it? did we make a dent? did it matter? and when i'm in my darkest moment, right, my most irrational place, i could say, "well, maybe not. maybe we weren't good enough." but then i look around and i, you know, when there is more clarity, when i'm able to unpack those feelings and think more rationally, ithink, well, my gosh, as i said earlier today, there's a whole world of young people who are thinking differently about themselves because of the work

that we've done. and that's where, you know, you can't allow great to be the enemy of the good. you know, did everything get fixed in the eight years that we were there? absolutely not. that's not how change happens. but we laid a marker in the sand. we pushed the wheel forward a bit. but progress isn't about a steady climb upward. there are ups and downs and stagnation. that's the the nature of change. and that's why the work that we're doing today is about empowering the next generation, the generation that we're handing the baton over to, and making space for them to make their mark on history. yet the world we're in today here in the uk and in the united states has become more and more polarised, particularly when it comes to politics. people seem divided, they seem angry. what, in your opinion, is needed to bring people back together, to let them have pleasant discourse,

agreeable disagreements on a middle ground? well, leadership matters. the voices at the top matter. if we continue to be susceptible to voices that want to lead by fear and division, we will follow suit. that's why government matters. democracy matters, voting matters. so i think it starts with having leadership that reflects the direction that we want to go in as a people. but the other thing we need is that people need — they need a break. they need help. you know, people need jobs. they need a stable economy. they need to feel seen. they need to feel like they can move their own needles forward. they need health care. they need their kids to have a decent education. they need to be able to retire. all of that is important.

but when people are operating out of fear, which is what's guiding us a lot, sometimes we don't even act in our own political self interest. you know, we are quick to blame somebody else for where we are, when the truth is, is that, you know, it's going to take all of us, many of us with resources to make the sacrifices that are necessary to create the kind of safety net that's going to make a broader group of people feel seen and to feel like they matter and to feel like they have a stake in the society remaining intact. it's a lot of work. you obviously started that work in the white house, and as well as being the president of the united states in occupation, there was you, the wife of the president of the united states and a family. i love the fact that

you say when you entered, "we needed a pencil box for sasha, a ball gown for me, a toothbrush holder and an economic rescue package." i mean, there was a whole load of stuff going on alongside a life you wanted to make normal. and you talk about how you had to protect your daughters, malia and sasha, more than ever before, and help them live with a small level of normality. did you succeed, do you think? you know, i'd like to say that now that they are young women in the world, still becoming who they're going to be, i am so proud of the individuals that they've become. and, yes, we fought to make their lives normal in a very abnormal situation. and we did that byjust pushing them towards normalcy, really just systematically making sure that they didn't connect their lives to what we were doing. that meant that, you know,

they had to go to school when it was time to go to school. we never let them take time off to go to a special event or to travel. we geared that stuff around their school schedules, making sure they could drive a car and knew how to make their beds and, you know, were on teams and participated in soccer matches. and that meant that we had to normalise ourselves as parents in the community, so that us showing up for parent teacher night or a soccer game or potluck wasn't a big to—do. so it was a mighty bit of work keeping our kids on a normal track. but i can say what helped a lot was having marian robinson, grandmother—in—chief, on our side through the process. how did the security services react when one of the children backchatted the president of the united states? well, fortunately, the secret service was not allowed

inside our home at our dinner table, so they were not aware of it. and if they had, they would have stood down. you have met nelson mandela, maya angelou, great people. who had the biggest impact on you? oh, well, see, this is the interesting thing about role models that the truth is, is that the people, despite the world leaders, the amazing, courageous people that i've come in contact with, that contact was only momentary. you know, it was a meeting, a day. it was a finite period of time. the people that impact me most are the people that are in my life every single day — my mother, my father. that's why they are... their stories are scattered through the pages of this book, because my working—class parents are the people that laid the foundation, because they were the first people to see my light, to hear my voice, to give me the space,

to believe that i was enough. and i share that only because, so often, young people, parents without resources, think that in order to have an impact on a child or on the planet, that you have to be a nelson mandela, you have to be grand rich, you have to have legacy. and what i've learned through my upbringing is that being present, greeting your children with gladness, being there for them as an advocate, a day—to—day constant doesn't require money, wealth, privileged position. but it matters the most. it's the thing that keeps me grounded in times of uncertainty. all parents have that tool. everyone can be a mentor. you don't have to be a world leader to have an impact. and that certainly was the case for me. one of the sweetest stories is when you had a classroom of young children and you said,

"ask me anything you like." one of them popped up a hand and just said, "can i have a hug?" the secret to a good hug, according to michelle obama? you got to mean it. people know the difference. you know, they know when you're embracing them for show and when you're embracing them because you see them. so i think the key is don't hug unless you mean it, because people will know the difference. michelle obama, it is time for your quickfire round. oh, my god. very easy questions, but they're to be answered... quick, quick, quick. which question do you detest being asked? are you going to run for president? answer? i detest it. no, i'm not... i'm not going to run. how is your husband barack�*s golf? and why don't you play more? oh, you know, barack would say his game is frustratingly average for the amount that he plays.

why don't i play? because i'd rather play tennis. fair point. you do talk about knitting in the book — about how it helps you keep calm and focused. what was the last thing you knitted? a wonderful shawl for a girlfriend. and i have not finished. ifinished the shawl, but i was going to make a halter top to go with it. and i haven't had time because i wrote a book. it's a good excuse. you mentioned your wonderful mother who stayed at the white house for eight years alongside you to help raise the family. so, you spent all that time together. have you finally usurped your brother craig as her favourite child ? no, i don't think i've surpassed that goal. he's still pretty cute, and he's still her only son. i'm still working on it, though.

sasha and malia made you and barack a not—so—great — a "weak" i think you describe it, martini, when they first welcomed you to their home. can either of them now make a decent one? i hope not. i hope they're not getting a lot of practice at martini—making. but, you know, the next time we're over there, we'll have to test it out. knowing there was a huge reaction when you broke protocol, when you hugged the queen when you visited the uk, would you hug the king if given a chance? i would take his lead. i would stand down until i was touched or hugged. i've learned that protocol. you are 30 years married. congratulations. i believe you celebrated in october. in one word, the secret not to staying together, because lives are separate and they come back, the secret to coming back together.

love. let me say this, "like" is even more important than "love". "like", that's my word. and finally, the most important and politically astute question you will be asked in your lifetime — toilet roll. your parents fought over whether the toilet roll should go over or under the toilet roll holder. your mother stood down, to go under. give us an insight in the obama household — over or under? i do reveal this in the book. you know, if i wanted to leave a cliffhanger, i would tell people to buy the book to find out. but i won't be so cruel. we are an over family. michelle obama. mrs obama, it has been an absolute pleasure talking to you today. thank you so much for your time with us. thank you for this. take care.

hello. many had more rain through the night. that is still filtering into the river systems and we still have flood warnings in force, more details on that on the website. there are more showers to come today, even when is the main rain clears away, it will linger in orkney, the showers could be quite heavy. we have more to come this week. this is the predicted rainfall over the next four or five days. particularly southern and western areas initially, but by the end of the week, many parts could have another a0 millimetres of rainfall. as for the rest of the day, you have still got that range of sitting across orkney, just dragging its hills to clear. heavy showers with hail and thunder behind. making it feel quite chilly. in fact, the air is chilly out and about today. cold

enough for some snow on the very tops of the mountains in northern parts of england and scotland as well. nine to ii parts of england and scotland as well. nine to 11 degrees in the south. blustery wind around which will continue through this evening and initially overnight. then come it will clear away, and before dawn, we have more rain pushing back into the south—west to northern ireland as well, but ahead of that, a cold night, where we will have some frost for the morning commute on monday. the fog will take some time to clear away and we have got the rain and the wind to contend with in the western areas. if this area of low pressure does develop, we could have some very lively winds and gales across southern and western areas, nudging that rain northwards into the rest of england and wales. the question is how far north rest of england and wales. the question is how far north willing to particularly pleasant. still chilly in the north, even with the showers. cold enough with some snow on the

hills. we are tapping into the cold air sitting across scandinavia over the next few days. the weather front is a swinging norfans coming in monday? 20 to 30 millimetres of rain. not feeling particularly pleasant. still chilly in the north, even with the showers. cold enough with some snow on the hills. we are tapping into the cold air sitting across scandinavia over the next few days. the weather front is a swinging north and coming into that cold and air. it is more likely to be a showery day for most of us. particularly in the north. there are more weather front is waiting in the winds towards the south—west. this means that the outlook for the week ahead is still an unsettled one. temperatures to rise later in the week.

having overrun to a second additional day, delegates at the cop27 climate summit finally reached agreement in the early hours of this morning. the deal should see developing nations who suffer most from the effects of climate change given financial help from the industrialised developed world. it's to help mitigate the loss and damage caused by the worst impacts of climate change. but there's no financial sum mentioned in the final text of the agreement. the summit also repeated a commitment to limit global warming to a 1.5 celsius rise since pre—industrial time,

but delegates could not agree on further commitments