this is bbc news. we'll have the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour as newsday continues, straight after hardtalk.

welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. one of the most costly conflicts of the 21st century may be over. representatives of the ethiopian government and tigrayan rebels signed a peace agreement earlier this month. after two years of war and perhaps half a million civilian deaths, tigrayan forces are to give up their weapons. the ethiopian army will take control of tigray and aid should begin to reach millions of desperate people. my guest is getachew reda, who signed the deal on behalf of the tigray people's liberation front. was this, in effect the tplf�*s surrender?

getachew reda in mek�*ele, tigray. my pleasure, stefan. it's a pleasure to have you on the show. let me begin with a very simple question. there you sit in mek�*ele, the capital of tigray region. if you go outside right now, who is in control? is it the ethiopian armed forces, the federal armed forces, or is it your forces from the tplf? it's our forces who are firmly in control of mek�*ele. right. so this is a very delicate stage of the peace process because over the next few days, there is supposed to be a disengagement process and then full authority and control of mek�*ele and other key towns and cities,

your airports and everything else is supposed to be handed over to the federal government and federal forces. right? the federalforces, we have agreed, will control federal institutions. we have submitted ourselves to the federal constitution, which provides that federal institutions would be under federal control. so as far as airports are concerned, otherfederal institutions concerned, they will be in the hands of the federal government. otherwise, the constitution also provides that regional authorities will exercise control over regional matters. so we're not in any way negating the constitutional principle. what matters most, particularly in the context of a terrible two—year war, is who has the guns and who imposes their authority with the gun? and according to the deal that you signed at the beginning of

this month with the ethiopian representatives, your tplf forces are going to disarm within 30 days. so clearly your forces will no longer have the power of the gun. well, to begin with, the fact that it is the agreement has been referred to as between tplf and the federal government is a bit of a stretch because it was a deal between the government, and the regional government and the federal government. whatever superlatives there though, what we have agreed is as long as the security interests of tigray are taken care of and as long as the political conditions that gave rise to the conflict in the first place are duly taken care of, which would of course involve some kind of political dialogue between our two sides. and then we have no business maintaining our artillery pieces or our tanks

because the tanks and artillery pieces did not belong to tigray in the sense that we didn't have them when the conflict broke out. we stood against any imposition by the federal government or its partners on us and we fought hard. and of course we captured most, if not all of the weapons from our adversaries. right. but ijust, if i may, ijust want to be very clear here, because it's a very tight schedule that you agreed to. you said that, yes, within 30 days, the tigrayan forces, you can call them whatever you want, but it is the tplf armed force. you said they would be demobilised and disarmed within 30 days. now, the clock is ticking. several of those days have already passed. so is that already happening? no, disengagement is happening. at least we are doing our part as far as disengagement is concerned. but this is not something that can be done only because we are, we have the willingness

to do so. it requires several arrangements between our two forces and the commanders of the two sides have been in contact. and unfortunately, the nairobi arrangement was essentially about making sure that whatever tight schedule was put in place, was put in place by the politicians in pretoria would be implemented in a manner that takes into account the security requirements of tigray, because you should know that tigray is not facing threats not only from the federal government but also from the eritrean government and other troops. i do understand that and we'll talk about eritrea and theirforces in a moment. but let us stick to what matters most. you know, people around the world have seen how terrible, how costly this two—year conflict has been, hundreds of thousands of lives lost of civilians, let alone the fighters lost as well on both sides. so i just want to be very clear, nothing that's happened in the last few days since you were in pretoria

and signed the agreement, nothing has happened to change your commitment to disarm and demobilise tplf fighting forces, right? well, nothing has changed, but we still expect a number of actions to be carried out before that kind of stuff happens. what we are saying is not, i mean, disarmament is a political process that that requires notjust months, but probably months, if not years. what we are saying here is we are ready to leave the past behind us to make sure that our people get the kind of respite they so richly deserve after the suffering the last two years that we are ready to address political problems in a peaceful and political manner, and that will be willing to hand over heavy weapons and heavy armaments, as long as the security interests of tigray are taken care of. we are ready to abide by the constitution. that has been our goal from day

one and we are ready to do so. and nothing so far has changed, although there are, there is a very slow process with regard to the implementation of the process. but at least with regard to this engagement, we have been doing our part and i would say the federal government, the federal, defence forces commanders and the commanders of our armed forces have been communicating on a daily basis, and i have reason to believe that these things can be taken care of and in a manner that addresses the security concerns of tigray. are you ready to acknowledge here and now that you in tigray, the tplf, you lost the war? no, we... we don't lose a war. this is a people's war. people fighting against tyranny. against any imposition from outside, from inside. and these are people who are fiercely in favour of exercising their rights. whether there is a willingness on our part to resolve this peacefully, it has always been there.

we have been consistent. if you remember the last time i was on your show, we've been saying that we're ready to resolve our differences peacefully. we're not interested in the corridors of power. as long as those security concerns, those political issues that gave rise to the conflict in the first place are not addressed, the people of tigray will not lay their arms. whether i sign a deal or not is not of significance, as long as those problems still persist, as long as our people continue to suffer under the kind of siege that our enemies have long imposed on us. yeah, but the thing is, i do remember our last interview, which was in august 2021, and i went back and i looked at what you said to me then. and then you were in a realfighting mood. and you said to me, "until the entire war military apparatus that has caused us misery and chaos in tigray ceases to operate, we will continue to take whatever action is necessary." it is quite clear, even to the spring and summer

of this year, you and all of your leadership in tigray thought you could win. but the bottom line is you haven't won, you have capitulated, you have agreed to disarm and demobilise your forces. as we've already established, the federal government is going to put its forces into all the key installations in tigray. it will be in control and all you have is a promise that in the future, you will be reincorporated into the federal system. well, i would agree with your simple arithmetic of people. like you said, we've been saying that what we need is security in tigray. what we need is addressing the overall political problems that afflicted the region and of course, the imposition that the siege that was imposed on us. we have done everything, we'll continue to do in our power. whether that is through the barrel of a gun or through peaceful means is what has changed at this point. what did you think, getachew

reda, what did you think when prime minister abiy ahmed, he went down to greet his supporters in the south of ethiopia on november 3rd. that is the day after you signed that agreement in pretoria, and he proclaimed that he had and his government had achieved a "historical victory". "they had achieved," he said, "100% of the things that they set out to achieve" in the negotiations with you. if he has won 100% of what he wanted, i put it to you that whatever you say to me, the people of tigray and ethiopia will see you as the losers. well, i'm not particularly interested in whether the people consider me a loser or not. what matters to me is whether the interests of the people of tigray is taken care of. whether that is going to be done through the barrel of a gun or through peaceful means is of little significance. but in fact, i prefer it to be done in a peaceful manner.

that's what we have agreed. i'm not going to comment on what the prime minister has to say about 0% victory. in any arrangement to say that you have achieved 100%, would require a bit of stretch. that's not my point. i want this arrangement to work, to work in a manner that benefits the people of tigray, in a manner that stops the suffering of the people of tigray. and the people of tigray can only be put to an end as long as all the issues that have caused this conflict in the first place are addressed and fully. whether that happens will remain to be seen. what we have achieved so far is a cessation of hostilities, whether there is a commitment on the part of the federal government to run the entire course, will remain to be seen. it's our role... if i may say so... ..that remains true. yeah, well, as you say, it remains to be seen. that's why this issue of disarmament is so very important. i just wonder whether you worry that there is a significant chunk of your own population in tigray who may not accept the deal that you and other

leaders of the tplf have done. i'm going to quote you kjetil tronvoll, a scholar of ethiopian politics based in oslo. he watches these things very carefully and he says that what you've done is extremely controversial. and it will be difficult to convince tigrayan forces to "voluntarily disarm and make themselves, in effect, indefensible in the face of an enemy that they have been fighting for the last two years". do you worry you may not be able to sell this deal to some of your own people? rest assured, what we are going to sell is not a carte blanche disarmament, where we will find ourselves as the lame duck against enemies. what we are trying to do with the federal government and we hope and expect the federal government to reciprocate, is to make sure that whatever security threats stack up against tigray are fully addressed. for example, the security considerations should take

into account the forces arrayed against us, the eritrean forces, otherforces which are not part of the endf. and of course there are a number of issues that need to be addressed, that need to be addressed. we're not saying we are going to lay our arms down simply because there is an agreement. what we are saying is, we will lay our arms down as long as those issues are resolved and we expect them to be resolved and soon. i mean, we are, this is an opportunity... this is so important. you've just mentioned eritrean forces and you're suggesting that if eritrean forces stay on your territory, then you may not you may not actually hand over your weapons, you may not demobilise your forces. and we know from tigrayan tv reporting and also from some officials in your own tplf organisation, they are saying just within the last few days that eritrean forces are continuing to operate on your territory, continuing, to quote one of your officials, to commit crimes, including killing, kidnapping and shelling around two areas in tigray. so if that's still happening,

if the eritrean soldiers are still there fighting your forces, are you telling me this whole deal is off? i'm not saying the whole deal is off. the whole deal will be off if the federal government started its part of the promise, its part of the responsibility, to not only convince the eritreans to withdraw, but also other forces which are not part of the endf, that's part of our deal. what we are saying is we are ready to lay down our arms as long as it is, because we know that peace is in the best interest of our people. we have more idps today than we had a year ago. we have more people suffering the consequences of notjust only bullets, but also lack of medicine and lack of food today than a year ago. so we will do everything in our power to make sure that we make painful concessions so our people could survive as a people. but if that means allowing our people to suffer needlessly in the hands of people

who should have left the country a long time ago, people who have been invited, invited by the federal government to do the kind of carnage they have been committing, then there is no point for us to lay down arms, because the whole idea of disarmament is not about handing over your weapons. it's about making sure that there is a sustainable peace. whether i have signed a deal in pretoria or in nairobi is going to be material as long as the underlying problems that have brought about the situation right now are addressed and addressed fully. you talk about painful concessions, and ifeel a little bit of pain in your voice, in all honesty and on reflection, do you wish that you and the tplf leadership had not started this war back in november 2020? a war which has cost, the university research team reckons up to 600,000 civilian lives, caused immense hardship to millions of your people. do you wish that you hadn't, in the end, attacked that

federal army base on tigrayan territory back in november of 2020? we didn't start the war. it was imposed on us. but i wish it didn't happen. i wish there was a chance for us to deal with this problem peacefully. but i'm not saying that we assume full responsibility for starting the war because we didn't start the war. it was imposed on us. let's talk about the humanitarian situation, because in a way, that matters more than anything else in this unfolding story. i've talked about the civilian death toll, but there are still millions of people, according to un agencies, at real risk of starvation in a humanitarian catastrophe, which is not yet over. now, part of this deal says that the ethiopian federal government must facilitate the aid supplies getting into tigray as of now. is that happening? well, i'm not sure if it's

happening the way we would have liked it to, because in the first place, the whole idea of facilitation of aid should not have been part of a deal. and i don't consider it part of a deal. it is something that should have been done by the federal government without putting any conditions. and i'm not complaining that they have put it forward as conditions, but as things stand, despite the commitments by the international community, the kind of progress that we are seeing so far is nothing to write home about. we were expecting flights last week and today. apparently these flights have been cancelled. well, we suspect that some political games are involved here. we still are engaging the international community. i know of some trucks carrying medicine that have made it to tigray. there are also probably dozens of trucks that have so far made it to tigray. but the enormous challenge

that we are facing in terms of the humanitarian catastrophe that has befallen tigray requires that these efforts need to be not only facilitated but also redoubled. i mean, the kind of magnitude of suffering that we are undergoing right now requires a much more, a much stronger and a much more focused effort on the part of international community. and the federal government should do its part and do it in a manner that doesn't leave any room whatsoever for doubts with regard to its sincerity about its commitment. hmm. now, the deal that you and others worked on in pretoria and then in nairobi as well, it talks about the need to find a pathway to unity and to "healing in ethiopia". part of that surely has to be a full independent accounting

for what appear to have been egregious abuses and war crimes, committed, frankly, by both sides in this war. are you speaking for the tplf? are you prepared to say you will accept independent investigation of all of the accusations and allegations levelled at tplf forces in this conflict? we have been consistent to a fault when it comes to submitting ourselves to independent investigation. we will remain committed to an independent investigation and assume full responsibility as long as there are findings that implicate us, myself included. do you know what happened in kobo and chena, for example, in august, september 2021, where it is alleged, and the un human rights council's commission of human rights experts has

indeed investigated this, it is alleged that there were grave human rights abuses committed by tigrayan forces, which included murder of civilians, sexual assault, rape, looting. are you aware of those particular charges and have they been investigated by your side? i'm aware of the charge. i'm aware of the allegations. and we have told the international human rights organisations, including the independent, the un human rights council people that we are open for investigation. in fact we have our version of the story and it's not the time to try to exculpate us. but i would tell you this. 0ur forces have never been involved in any systematic attack against civilians. well, i cannot vouch for any isolated incidents here and there. we know of cases where some off

grid fighters were involved in some kind of activities, but that doesn't amount to the kind of systematic attack that was wrought on our population by the combined force of the federal government and the eritrean forces and their partners for the last two years. but it's not a question of ensuring parity of crimes. what we are saying is, we are open for an independent investigation and we remain committed to that promise. before we end, let's just talk briefly about the future. basic question — do you trust abiy ahmed and the federal government of ethiopia? do you trust in their good faith to make this agreement work? i don't have to trust them, but i have to assume good faith. and of course, as i say, i would hope for the best and prepare for the worst. but at this point in time, i would rather focus on making

this arrangement work so that my people will have the kind of respect they so richly deserve. and we are, as a as government, willing to do everything to make sure that our people's suffering ends and soon. finally, one of the mediators who brokered this deal, former president 0basanjo of nigeria, he said he hoped it would be a new dawn for ethiopia. when we last spoke, you had real doubts about whether tigray�*s future lay within ethiopia. you said that there may be a different future for tigray. are you prepared now to say to me that you are committed to a tigray future within a federal ethiopia? that is your future and you are happy to exist within the federal constitution of ethiopia? one has to be sure about the arrangements. what we have agreed in pretoria is what we have always been declaring in public,

that as long as our self—determination rights are fully preserved, fully protected, we'll be willing to live within ethiopia. i have told you, the last time i appeared on your show that we have never been separatists. we have never been for secession or anything. but secession is a function of whether people feel represented and fully represented in the body politic of the country. as long as that suspicion on the part of the population persists, it doesn't matter whether i believe in an ethiopian unity or not. what matters is whether the authorities in addis ababa or the entire population is ready to do what it takes to make sure that this country, ethiopia, belongs to tigrayans and tigrayans feel fully represented in ethiopia. if that doesn't happen, there isn't a point for me to make, promises after promise. getachew reda, i thank you forjoining me from mek�*ele on hardtalk. i should apologise to you and indeed to all our viewers, the audio and the video quality

is not the best, but it is a hugely important subject and we're happy to talk to you. thank you very much forjoining us on hardtalk. my pleasure, stephen. hello. there is no doubt it has been a soggy november so far. some places have already seen twice the amount of rain they would normally expect in the whole month. wednesday really added to those totals with this band of wet weather pushing northwards and eastwards. lots of heavy, thundery showers with squally, gusty winds following on behind, and all of those weather elements also feature in thursday's forecast.

another frontal system pushing in from the atlantic, more heavy rain, more squally winds already showing its hand in the western side of northern ireland first thing. most other areas starting day dry, but this rain is on the move eastwards. it's moving pretty quickly, so it will be a short, sharp burst of torrential rain and strong winds for northern ireland, southwest scotland — wind gusts widely 40—50 mph, maybe gusting up to 60—70 mph in exposed spots. the bright colours showing up there across wales, the southwest of england — a really squally band of rain, so as it pushes through, you'll notice the torrential rain, the very gusty winds, but then it clears to a mix of sunshine and heavy, perhaps thundery showers. highs of 9—13 degrees, northeast scotland, eastern england staying dry untilafter dark, but the rain will eventually work its way through. and overnight, into the start of friday, we will see further showers, particularly up towards the north and west, but more in the way of dry weather, some clear spells. temperatures generally 5, 6, 7 degrees — wouldn't

surprise me at all if some places gotjust a little lower than that. but friday should be a somewhat drier day with some spells of sunshine. now, there will still be some showers around western coasts across northern ireland, northwest scotland. not many of those showers getting across into the east of the uk. temperatures 9 degrees foraberdeen, maybe 14 there in cardiff, so quite mild for the time of year. that quieter friday is thanks to this ridge of high pressure, but this frontal system pushing in from the west will bring rain on saturday. eastern areas starting off dry and bright, but we'll see increasing amounts of cloud, and for the western side of the uk, outbreaks of rain splashing quite erratically northwards, perhaps some heavier rain into the southwest later on. but it will be mild, 10—14 degrees, very mild on saturday night, and then that rain may take a while to clear eastwards on sunday, but it will leave behind it some spells of sunshine. bye for now.

welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, i'm karishma vaswani. the headlines. escaping the blackout. after more missile strikes against ukraine's energy infrastructure — russia is accused of crimes against humanity. the race to find survivors after monday's indonesia earthquake — many of the 271 people known to have died were children. we'll have the latest on the rescue effort. also on the programme. sheerjoy in tokyo afterjapan beat one of the favourites — germany — in the world cup in qatar. and the british paralympian sprinter — training to become the world's first astronaut with a disability.