we all have one in our pockets, the good and bad of the internet at our fingertips. today we grapple with the good and bad online. our lives are lived online. but can we control the dark corners of the web? i are lived online. but can we control the dark corners of the web? i want to be really — the dark corners of the web? i want to be really careful _ the dark corners of the web? i want to be really careful that _ the dark corners of the web? i want to be really careful that there - the dark corners of the web? i want to be really careful that there are i to be really careful that there are not headlines saying, kate winslet attacks big tech. i do wish that our government will crack down on it, i do wish that they would be certain platforms that were banned before a certain age. the platforms that were banned before a certain ace. ., , certain age. the government is . ivina certain age. the government is aaivin it certain age. the government is giving it a _ certain age. the government is giving it a go- _ certain age. the government is giving it a go. anybody - certain age. the government is giving it a go. anybody that - certain age. the government is. giving it a go. anybody that tells me that it is _ giving it a go. anybody that tells me that it is going _ giving it a go. anybody that tells me that it is going to _ giving it a go. anybody that tells me that it is going to be - giving it a go. anybody that tells me that it is going to be too - me that it is going to be too complicated for these companies that

have been_ complicated for these companies that have been prioritising profits over people _ have been prioritising profits over people are misled. did have been prioritising profits over people are misled.— people are misled. did the tech firms win over _ people are misled. did the tech firms win over families - people are misled. did the tech i firms win over families desperate for help? firms win over families desperate for hel ? ~ ., firms win over families desperate for hel? ~ ., . ., firms win over families desperate for hel ? ~ ., . ., ., for help? without the change that re . ulates for help? without the change that regulates companies, _ for help? without the change that regulates companies, to - for help? without the change that regulates companies, to operate l regulates companies, to operate their platforms more safely, these tragedies will continue to happen. the tories are in trouble, battered at a by—election in chester. rishi sunak needs something to go right. we have one big question this morning. whosejob is it to keep us safe online? he's been the chancellor, the education secretary, and you might know him as the vaccines minister. nadhim zahawi's now chair of the conservative party and he's here. the mp who'd be in charge of our kids' education if labour takes powerjoins us too. labour's shadow education secretary, bridget phillipson. and later, that conversation with a megastar about life online and beyond, including her new hollywood film. could it be the biggest movie of all time?!

i think it probably will be. i mean, those themes of climate change and the impact that man is having on the environment, it's never been more prevalent. with me at the desk for the next hour, a formidable gang to talk about what's going on in the virtual and the real world. the founder of wikipedia, jimmy wales. the director of bridgetjones 2, now member of the house of lords, beeban kidron who gave up the glitz to campaign for kids' protection online. and the boss of the uk's biggest tech retailer, currys, alex baldock. hello and welcome, whether watching on bbc one, the news channel, on your phone, or even online.

we're going to spend a lot of this morning's show talking about something that really matters that is happening right now. nope, not the world cup, although we'll talk a bit about that too. but ministers unveiled their new, and they hope improved, laws to regulate what happens on the internet this week. it's back in parliament tomorrow, but has its backers and critics. let's have a quick look at what it does. there will be a regulator for the first time, overseeing tech platforms and it will have the power to fine them billions of pounds. but there's no definition of what might do harm to adults that's not illegal. in some scenarios the bill lets the government to direct companies to use technology to examine private messages. it isa it is a huge bit of legislation and it could make a really big difference in the future. first, you have been campaigning on online safety for a long time, baroness kidron, what is your feeling about

the bill? ., ~ kidron, what is your feeling about the bill? . ~ , ., ., the bill? thank it is here now and we are going _ the bill? thank it is here now and we are going to — the bill? thank it is here now and we are going to get _ the bill? thank it is here now and we are going to get it _ the bill? thank it is here now and we are going to get it back- we are going to get it back tomorrow. it has been five years in the making, and that is five years too long, right? but i think that having a lot of last—minute changes of this magnitude means that we in the lords want to have a bit of a close scrutiny of what happens, and i know for a fact that we will be bringing amendments, certainly to make sure that anywhere that a child is likely to be, is in the scope of the bill. you cannot have a parent work out whether they are on a user to use a platform or a gaming platform, that is not ok. tomorrow, a number of bereaved parents including ian russell, molly russell's father, will be coming to parliament to back an amendment that i have that would make sure that data be given to coroners and families in the case of the death of a child. because many families have

struggled for years to get hold of information that they need to understand the circumstances of the death of their child.— death of their child. there is such distress are _ death of their child. there is such distress are some _ death of their child. there is such distress are some of _ death of their child. there is such distress are some of the - death of their child. there is such distress are some of the families| distress are some of the families caught up in all of this, and overall, i know you are pleased there is legislation, but do you think it goes far enough to protect people? i think it goes far enough to protect --eole? ~ think it goes far enough to protect neale? ~ , ,., think it goes far enough to protect --eole? «a ,., , people? i think people is a big question. _ people? i think people is a big question. i _ people? i think people is a big question, i think _ people? i think people is a big question, i think on _ people? i think people is a big question, i think on the - people? i think people is a big question, i think on the kid's l question, i think on the kid's piece, we need to make sure that it is the features of the companies themselves that our insight of the regulator. we mustn't only on the content. i really welcome the law commission work on illegal content and having a regulator to look at this but we need to really see what other drivers to those bad experiences, and again and again, we see it is the features of the platforms rather than the content. so it's how it works, why the internet is fun, jimmy, is also why it is dangerous. you created a global web sensation. when you look at what the government is trying to do, who is really in charge here?

it's a really completed question, and i_ it's a really completed question, and i think— it's a really completed question, and i think one of the things in it is how— and i think one of the things in it is how the — and i think one of the things in it is how the platforms work is very important — is how the platforms work is very important. wikipedia is very much a sociat— important. wikipedia is very much a social platform at the way it functions and the way our community works_ functions and the way our community works is— functions and the way our community works is completely different from anywhere — works is completely different from anywhere else. we have community elected _ anywhere else. we have community elected moderators in a position about_ elected moderators in a position about content and block people for not being _ about content and block people for not being there to build an encyclopaedia. we have not had those kind of— encyclopaedia. we have not had those kind of problem is partly because we have always said, wikipedia is not so wide _ have always said, wikipedia is not so wide open free speech battle, we are a _ so wide open free speech battle, we are a project to build an —— it is not _ are a project to build an —— it is not a _ are a project to build an —— it is not a wide—open free speech platform, we are project to build an encyclopaedia. its platform, we are pro'ect to build an encyclopaedia._ platform, we are pro'ect to build an encyclopaedia. platform, we are pro'ect to build an en cloaedia. a ., ., encyclopaedia. as someone who runs a big business. — encyclopaedia. as someone who runs a big business, are _ encyclopaedia. as someone who runs a big business, are you _ encyclopaedia. as someone who runs a big business, are you comfortable - big business, are you comfortable with the government regulating like this? it is a huge new piece of regulation into private business. it regulation into private business. it is, and as ever, there is a search for balance — is, and as ever, there is a search for balance that _ is, and as ever, there is a search for balance that needs _ is, and as ever, there is a search for balance that needs to - is, and as ever, there is a search for balance that needs to be - is, and as ever, there is a search. for balance that needs to be here. on the _

for balance that needs to be here. on the one — for balance that needs to be here. on the one hand _ for balance that needs to be here. on the one hand technology- for balance that needs to be here. on the one hand technology is - for balance that needs to be here. on the one hand technology is a l on the one hand technology is a powerful— on the one hand technology is a powerful and _ on the one hand technology is a powerful and we _ on the one hand technology is a powerful and we do _ on the one hand technology is a powerful and we do not - on the one hand technology is a powerful and we do not allow i powerful and we do not allow chiidren— powerful and we do not allow children and _ powerful and we do not allow children and wanted - powerful and we do not allow children and wanted to - powerful and we do not allow| children and wanted to access powerful and we do not allow i children and wanted to access to cars either~ _ children and wanted to access to cars either. on _ children and wanted to access to cars either. on the _ children and wanted to access to cars either. on the other- children and wanted to access to cars either. on the other hand, i cars either. on the other hand, technology— cars either. on the other hand, technology can _ cars either. on the other hand, technology can be _ cars either. on the other hand, technology can be a _ cars either. on the other hand, technology can be a powerful . cars either. on the other hand, . technology can be a powerful force for good _ technology can be a powerful force for good i— technology can be a powerful force for good. ithink— technology can be a powerful force for good. i think what _ technology can be a powerful force for good. i think what is _ for good. i think what is commendable, - for good. i think what is commendable, that- for good. i think what is commendable, that we i for good. i think what is - commendable, that we don't tip for good. i think what is _ commendable, that we don't tip over into either— commendable, that we don't tip over into either restricting _ commendable, that we don't tip over into either restricting legitimate - into either restricting legitimate free speech _ into either restricting legitimate free speech which _ into either restricting legitimate free speech which is _ into either restricting legitimate free speech which is essential. into either restricting legitimate | free speech which is essential to the running _ free speech which is essential to the running of— free speech which is essential to the running of any _ free speech which is essential to the running of any healthy - free speech which is essential to - the running of any healthy democracy but we _ the running of any healthy democracy but we also _ the running of any healthy democracy but we also don't _ the running of any healthy democracy but we also don't tip _ the running of any healthy democracy but we also don't tip over— the running of any healthy democracy but we also don't tip over into - but we also don't tip over into demonising _ but we also don't tip over into demonising technology- but we also don't tip over into demonising technology whichl but we also don't tip over into i demonising technology which can but we also don't tip over into - demonising technology which can play such an _ demonising technology which can play such an important _ demonising technology which can play such an important role _ demonising technology which can play such an important role in _ demonising technology which can play such an important role in peoples - such an important role in peoples lives _ such an important role in peoples lives. �* , ., such an important role in peoples lives. �* . ., ., lives. are you concerned about that? i will be lives. are you concerned about that? i will be keeping _ lives. are you concerned about that? i will be keeping an _ lives. are you concerned about that? i will be keeping an eye _ lives. are you concerned about that? i will be keeping an eye on _ lives. are you concerned about that? i will be keeping an eye on it, - i will be keeping an eye on it, lets— i will be keeping an eye on it, lets say— i will be keeping an eye on it, let's say that _ i will be keeping an eye on it, let's say that.— i will be keeping an eye on it, let's sa that. ., ,, , ., , . let's say that. thank you very much, we will talk — let's say that. thank you very much, we will talk to _ let's say that. thank you very much, we will talk to you _ let's say that. thank you very much, we will talk to you later— let's say that. thank you very much, we will talk to you later on. - let's say that. thank you very much, we will talk to you later on. let's - we will talk to you later on. let's have a look at the papers. the tabloids, harry kane, and also harry and meghan, after the netflix

trainer dropped this week while william and kate were in america. —— netflix trailer. the broadsheets are on different lines, the telegraph talking about pharmacies being brought into play during the nhs strike, and the observer on the same story, ministers accused of spoiling for a fight with this is over pay. whatever the government does with the online safety bill, they cannot escape those political problems. they can't escape the current politcal reality that the going is tough, extremely tough, with appallingly low levels in the polls, seeming to become the norm. no—one expected the conservatives to win the chester by—election but it was still a pretty abject defeat for them in rishi sunak�*s first real life test at the ballot box. labour's new mp sam dixon got more than 60% of the vote. we've heard from some of her backers who used to support the other side.

do you mind me asking how you would normally vote? conservative. but this time? sorry. people are fed up with the incompetence and dishonesty, and the fact that they have basically run the country down into the ground over the last 12 years. the general public have just been let down by them, - the shenanigans that have been going on in parliament. - the conservative party chairman, nadhim zahawi, is here. he is with us in the studio for the first time, welcome. no one would have expected tories to take chester in these circumstances but it was a pretty abject performance, wasn't it? it pretty ab'ect performance, wasn't it? ., , ., , ., pretty ab'ect performance, wasn't it? ., , it? it was, and there is no shying away from _ it? it was, and there is no shying away from the — it? it was, and there is no shying away from the fact _ it? it was, and there is no shying away from the fact that - it? it was, and there is no shying l away from the fact that obviously, the internal challenges of the conservative party has probably led to the gap in the polls. but when you look beyond the headline of the

20 point gap, when we ask people, if there is an election tomorrow, which way would you vote, they know there is no election tomorrow and it is a reflection of how they feel about the government's performance. if the exact question for rishi sunak was, stabilise the economy, has a fiscal plan that helps the bank of england deal with the monetary levers they need to pull to bring inflation back down, the parent is at $1 22 —— at the pound is at 1.2 to dollars, the interest rate spread is about 3% from a peak of 6.8% so we are fixing the economy. we need to deal with issues around the nhs. don’t the economy. we need to deal with issues around the nhs.— issues around the nhs. don't like it. the question _ issues around the nhs. don't like it. the question is _ issues around the nhs. don't like it. the question is not _ issues around the nhs. don't like it. the question is not about - it. the question is not about whether rishi sunak can please the markets, the question is, conservative voters went to the

other way. conservative voters went to the otherway. did conservative voters went to the other way. did you send any cabinet minister to campaign other way. did you send any cabinet ministerto campaign in other way. did you send any cabinet minister to campaign in chester? i minister to campaign in chester? 1 was campaigning in chester... d c was campaigning in chester... did an of was campaigning in chester... did any of your cabinet colleagues go? we never expected to win at chester, most of the polls suggested we were 17 points adrift in chester, we came in 13 points behind, that is no consolation in any way, not something to be happy with. if consolation in any way, not something to be happy with. if you were the only _ something to be happy with. if you were the only cabinet _ something to be happy with. if you were the only cabinet minister- something to be happy with. if you were the only cabinet minister to campaign in there, it like you have given up. hat campaign in there, it like you have liven u. ., ., ., �* campaign in there, it like you have hivenu, ., . . �* given up. not at all, i'm saying it's a rebuilding _ given up. not at all, i'm saying it's a rebuilding exercise, - given up. not at all, i'm saying it's a rebuilding exercise, we . given up. not at all, i'm saying l it's a rebuilding exercise, we are focused on the local elections now in may next year and to make salt we deliver. because we have to deliver on fixing the economy. the chancery talked about the growth agenda which we have to deliver against —— the chancellor talked about the growth agenda. the best supply—side innovation you can make it on skills and the prime minister's focus on skills, infrastructure and investment, in places like the west midlands. and we look at the nhs, the two—year waiting lists by next

year... i the two-year waiting lists by next ear... ., �* ~ the two-year waiting lists by next ear... .,�* «a, ,_ the two-year waiting lists by next ear... g «a, ., year... i don't think anybody would think ou year... i don't think anybody would think you are _ year... i don't think anybody would think you are dealing _ year... i don't think anybody would think you are dealing with - year... i don't think anybody would think you are dealing with the - think you are dealing with the waiting lists. voters are not impressed with what they have seen so far from rishi impressed with what they have seen so farfrom rishi sunak. it's not just voters walking away from you, some of your colleagues are as well. sajid javid, who our viewers will be very familiar with and had lots of cabinetjobs in his time, he is related to the long line of mps to say, thanks very much but i am off at the next election —— he is the latest of the long line of mps. many people are looking at the conservatives and saying, it's not for me, it seems like. he conservatives and saying, it's not for me, it seems like.— for me, it seems like. he says he will continue _ for me, it seems like. he says he will continue to _ for me, it seems like. he says he will continue to contribute - for me, it seems like. he says he will continue to contribute to - will continue to contribute to parliament and our democracy in many ways. did parliament and our democracy in many wa s. , , ., y parliament and our democracy in many wa s. , y ., parliament and our democracy in many was., , ways. did you try to stop him leaving? _ ways. did you try to stop him leaving? hold _ ways. did you try to stop him leaving? hold on _ ways. did you try to stop him leaving? hold on a _ ways. did you try to stop him leaving? hold on a second. l ways. did you try to stop him i leaving? hold on a second. you ways. did you try to stop him - leaving? hold on a second. you have been around — leaving? hold on a second. you have been around politics _ leaving? hold on a second. you have been around politics for— leaving? hold on a second. you have been around politics for a _ leaving? hold on a second. you have been around politics for a long - leaving? hold on a second. you have been around politics for a long time | been around politics for a long time so you know that mps when it comes to a general election can decide to retire, make different decisions, not that in our party, but in the labour party as well, lots of mps

are retiring. let mejust get labour party as well, lots of mps are retiring. let me just get this point. since rishi sunak took office, in central office, the phones are ringing, we have got some great candidates coming forward who i hope to be able to come forward and announce on your show and we will have the same length of time to discuss the talent coming through in the conservative ranks as well. haste the conservative ranks as well. have ou the conservative ranks as well. have you spoken — the conservative ranks as well. have you spoken to _ the conservative ranks as well. have you spoken to other _ the conservative ranks as well. have you spoken to other mps _ the conservative ranks as well. have you spoken to other mps who are thinking about leaving, may be joining the reform party which came out of the brexit party? trio. joining the reform party which came out of the brexit party?— out of the brexit party? no, no conservative _ out of the brexit party? no, no conservative mp _ out of the brexit party? no, no conservative mp has _ out of the brexit party? no, no conservative mp has spoken i out of the brexit party? no, no conservative mp has spoken to| out of the brexit party? no, no - conservative mp has spoken to me aboutjoining any other party. mps will make decisions about what they do. we have asked all mps to indicate by monday what they plan to do in terms of standing again because it is right that we begin selecting early so we have got some great candidates coming through as i said. the most important thing is to focus on the economy, of course, making sure we deal with the backlog in the nhs, which i know steve barclay is doing. and dealing with

the illegal small boats. this is a real issue that we have to make sure that we break the business model of those gangs, and rishi sunak in the first few weeks of coming into office signed a deal with his french counterpart to increase the number of patrols. they have already turned back around 30,000 people but we need to do much better. we need to operationalise rwanda, that has to happen. lots of delivery, we have to show by doing, as we did on vaccines. rememberwhen show by doing, as we did on vaccines. remember when i took on the vaccine has we were losing 1500 people a day and people were in despair. we saved the country... find despair. we saved the country... and our despair. we saved the country... and your record — despair. we saved the country... and your record on _ despair. we saved the country... and your record on that has been discussed on many occasions. there is something else that the government is having to confront it a very real way that is going to be a very real way that is going to be a huge dealfor a very real way that is going to be a huge deal for everybody watching this morning, a wave of strikes that is coming. ministers have had plenty of warning that this was going to happen. and yet, they don't seem to

be proper negotiations going on, does not seem to be any chance of calling strikes off, what are you doing? calling strikes off, what are you doin: ? ., �* , calling strikes off, what are you doin:? . �*, ., . doing? that's not correct, with resect, doing? that's not correct, with respect, because _ doing? that's not correct, with respect, because we _ doing? that's not correct, with respect, because we can - doing? that's not correct, with respect, because we can take l doing? that's not correct, with - respect, because we can take them them each individually. whether it is the transport unions or other unions. one thing i would say is that resident newton has used energy as a weapon because he is failing —— president putin has used energy as a weapon because he is failing in his war in ukraine and he knows that energy is a weapon. gas prices spiked, the obr in the autumn statement said that the bulk of the reason we have this high inflation at 11% is because of energy. reason we have this high inflation at 1196 is because of energy. except, minister, at 1196 is because of energy. except, minister. you _ at 1196 is because of energy. except, minister, you know— at 1196 is because of energy. except, minister, you know as _ at 1196 is because of energy. except, minister, you know as well - at 1196 is because of energy. except, minister, you know as well as - at 1196 is because of energy. except, minister, you know as well as i - at 1196 is because of energy. except, minister, you know as well as i do, | minister, you know as well as i do, as many of our viewers do, many of the public sector workers themselves, is also about long—term pressures on public sector pay, long—term pressures on the nhs, nobody would deny that president putin's illegal war in ukraine has exacerbated all of this but you cannot say this is all this is about

so why have a government allowed the country to get to the stage where there is conflict between the government and so many different important public sectors that is likely to result in really significant disruption? no doubt. you mentioned the nhs and let me address that head on. what i was saying about putin is if you allow inflation to be embedded, you hurt the most vulnerable because it puts pressure on household budgets if inflation continues to run high. the way you deal with is bearing down on inflation and being disciplined about public sector and private sector pay. what disciplined about public sector and private sector pay.— private sector pay. what are you auoin to private sector pay. what are you going to do _ private sector pay. what are you going to do on — private sector pay. what are you going to do on these _ private sector pay. what are you going to do on these strikes - private sector pay. what are you l going to do on these strikes then? you asked me a question answered it has been going on a while and mentioned the nhs so let's take the nhs and nurses. last year when there was a public sector pay freeze, the government said the nurses have been working unbelievably hard and deserve 3% while the rest of the public sector was frozen. this year

the public sector pay review body is recommended £1400 which would mean the starting salary of a nurse would hit 31,000. we have accepted that. the nurses union is asking for 19%, that would cost the nhs £10 billion, £10 billion that the service should be putting on the front line to obviously bring down those elected waiting lists and deal with that. what are you going to do to help members of the public cope with the impact of these strikes? brute members of the public cope with the impact of these strikes?— impact of these strikes? we have announced _ impact of these strikes? we have announced we — impact of these strikes? we have announced we have _ impact of these strikes? we have announced we have contingency i impact of these strikes? we have - announced we have contingency plans. we don't want this but we have contingency plans to make sure the health service, and there is a responsibility on the unions to make sure there is a safe level of staffing in the nhs to deal with emergency and other aspects of the nhs, but we are operationalising contingency plans. the short time i spent in the cabinet office as

chancellor of the duchy of lancaster we have a cobra team doing this every day. whether it's our military personnel we have trained up or surge capacity that we can actually make sure things like borders are safe and protected, and of course people's lives not disrupted. coming up people's lives not disrupted. coming up to christmas it is unfair in my view for the unions to really damage and disrupt people's lives and livelihoods are at a time like christmas. they should really rethink and reflect on this because thatis rethink and reflect on this because that is exactly what putin wants to see, that division. let's not divide, let's come together. unfair on _ divide, let's come together. unfair on their _ divide, let's come together. unfair on their staff because pay has been held down. i want to talk about the online safety bill. before you became a politician you were a pollster, right now what are the chances of the tories winning the next election?— chances of the tories winning the next election? there is no election cominu next election? there is no election coming up- — next election? there is no election coming up- it's— next election? there is no election coming up. it's not— next election? there is no election coming up. it's not that _ next election? there is no election coming up. it's not that far- next election? there is no election coming up. it's not that far away. l coming up. it's not that far away. it's a coming up. it's not that far away. it's a couple _ coming up. it's not that far away. it's a couple of _ coming up. it's not that far away. it's a couple of years, _ coming up. it's not that far away. it's a couple of years, and - coming up. it's not that far away. it's a couple of years, and in -

coming up. it's not that far away. | it's a couple of years, and in those years we focus on delivery and show by doing. rishi sunak is focused on dealing with the backlog in the nhs, fixing the economy, safer streets and we have got to deal with illegal migration to our country. if we can demonstrate those things, i think we will have a legitimate right to the nation to say give us more time to continue with that. worth reminding people, as well as the 400 billion rishi sunak delivered, jeremy hunt hasjust delivered a rishi sunak delivered, jeremy hunt has just delivered a £150 billion energy package to protect households. brute energy package to protect households.— energy package to protect households. ~ ., ,, ., ., households. we talked to him about this in that very _ households. we talked to him about this in that very chair, _ households. we talked to him about this in that very chair, and _ households. we talked to him about this in that very chair, and i - households. we talked to him about this in that very chair, and i want - this in that very chair, and i want to talk about online safety because we know people are very interested in this and the bill is back in the commons this week. let's talk about how the rules might work. if an england player gets... sorry, if england player gets... sorry, if england gets knocked out of the world cup and a footballer is sent bananas as a form of racist abuse, what power does he have to do

anything about that? i what power does he have to do anything about that? i remember durin: the anything about that? i remember during the euros, _ anything about that? i remember during the euros, the _ anything about that? i remember during the euros, the racial- anything about that? i remember| during the euros, the racial abuse was completely unacceptable. what we are trying to do, and your panel mentioned the balance between freedom of expression, free speech and illegal, abusive behaviour. the way you deal with it is to make all that behaviour, so let me give you an example, self—harmed videos. can an example, self-harmed videos. can ou an example, self—harmed videos. can you answer the example? an example, self-harmed videos. can you answer the example? that - an example, self-harmed videos. can| you answer the example? that person can be prosecuted _ you answer the example? that person can be prosecuted for _ you answer the example? that person can be prosecuted for racist _ can be prosecuted for racist behaviour. can be prosecuted for racist behaviour-— can be prosecuted for racist behaviour. ., ., , ., . i] behaviour. that would be a crime? i think if you — behaviour. that would be a crime? i think if you are _ behaviour. that would be a crime? i think if you are being _ behaviour. that would be a crime? i think if you are being racially - think if you are being racially abused, that is a crime. fine think if you are being racially abused, that is a crime. one of the concerns of— abused, that is a crime. one of the concerns of many _ abused, that is a crime. one of the concerns of many campaigners - abused, that is a crime. one of the | concerns of many campaigners have about the bill is that the regulator will not define the kind of material that might come in a grey area, this idea of legal but harmful. and there are plenty of examples where actually it may not be clear if something is illegal or not, and by stopping short of giving those definitions, there is a concern that

you have let the platforms off the hook. i you have let the platforms off the hook. ., �* , ., , , hook. i don't believe that. this is a landmark _ hook. i don't believe that. this is a landmark bill. _ hook. i don't believe that. this is a landmark bill. i— hook. i don't believe that. this is a landmark bill. i hold _ hook. i don't believe that. this is a landmark bill. i hold in - hook. i don't believe that. this is a landmark bill. i hold in the - hook. i don't believe that. this is| a landmark bill. i hold in the tech companies with the children's commissioner, and by the way the bill now embeds the children's commissioner, the protection for children which is so important. i have a young daughter and i have no problem with her dealing with challenging issues online but not damaging issues. d0 challenging issues online but not damaging issues.— challenging issues online but not damaging issues. do you let your dau . hter damaging issues. do you let your daughter go _ damaging issues. do you let your daughter go on — damaging issues. do you let your daughter go on tiptop, _ damaging issues. do you let your daughter go on tiptop, on - damaging issues. do you let your daughter go on tiptop, on the - damaging issues. do you let your i daughter go on tiptop, on the social media platforms? she daughter go on tiptop, on the social media platforms?— media platforms? she is still ten so the policies — media platforms? she is still ten so the policies of _ media platforms? she is still ten so the policies of course _ media platforms? she is still ten so the policies of course on _ media platforms? she is still ten so the policies of course on those - the policies of course on those platforms that children only at the age of 13, and i think it's important to make sure that the platforms... many of them have it in their terms and conditions but they are not really implementing it. they are not really implementing it. they are not really implementing it. they are not effectively walking the walk. it is all there. what we have got to do for both children and adults i think is make sure things like self—harm images should be illegal and that's how you deal with

them. but the right balance to strike is between free speech and freedom of expression as well as dealing with this. many democracies by the way are looking to us and this bill to follow our lead on this so i'm very proud of what we are doing at the moment and i think we have struck the right balance. i think that will be reflected, i hope, in the debate and discussion ultimately becoming an act of parliament.— ultimately becoming an act of parliament. , , , ., ., ,, parliament. very briefly, a baroness mentioned tomorrow _ parliament. very briefly, a baroness mentioned tomorrow she _ parliament. very briefly, a baroness mentioned tomorrow she will - parliament. very briefly, a baroness mentioned tomorrow she will try - parliament. very briefly, a baroness mentioned tomorrow she will try to | mentioned tomorrow she will try to make a change in the house of lords where families who have lost children in part due to a result of what happened on social media will get the data they want from companies. will the government accept that change?— companies. will the government accept that change? michelle and the team will look— accept that change? michelle and the team will look at _ accept that change? michelle and the team will look at all— accept that change? michelle and the team will look at all amendments - accept that change? michelle and the | team will look at all amendments and respond to them through the passage of the bill through parliament. we want to get this right which is why i go back and say to you, you know, online, self—harm images should be illegal and that is how you deal with them, and i think that's how

you make sure the platforms are implementing the measures from the bill. ., implementing the measures from the bill. . ., ., ., ~ , ., bill. ok, nadhim zahawi, thank you so much for— bill. ok, nadhim zahawi, thank you so much for coming _ bill. ok, nadhim zahawi, thank you so much for coming on _ bill. ok, nadhim zahawi, thank you so much for coming on this - bill. ok, nadhim zahawi, thank you | so much for coming on this morning. it's great to have you in the studio. now as we were hearing from nadhim, the government is trying to get to grips with what happens on the internet. we all know how much the online world is part of our real worlds. the fabulous side of it, and the fear too. and it affects everyone, even hollywood stars. kate winslet is one of the brightest of them, and her latest drama, i am ruth, hits the dilemma head on. it's the tale of a teenager who's caught up in the dark side of social media, and her mother's struggle to help her. i asked kate why she wanted to produce and star in this largely improvised drama working alongside her real—life daughter. what was that like? what's the matter? nothing. 0k. you are notjudged, you are not criticised... well, lam, though, am i not? i'm not perfect. please stop. you are driving me to do this! i really think it would be worth her while if she saw a counsellor. -

where's my phone? it's what's making you ill. it was extraordinary, it was extraordinary. she would have days where she'd say, "i can't think of anything. i don't know what to say, i don't know what i'm going to do." and i would say, "great, i can't think of anything, i don't know what i'm going to say, i don't know what i'm going to do." itjust meant that we kind of held hands much more and actually, i was just so blown away by her. she didn't need my help at all. sometimes i could show her or introduce her to a technical trick here and there, just little things i picked up along the way, like changing an eyeline, whether you look at the camera, look at the person there or you cheat it to there so it brings the eyeline closer, little things like that that no one teaches you. and she appreciated that stuff. but when it came to the acting, she'd go, "i've got it, i'm good, i'm good." and there were times where i'd say, "can ijust, one tiny..." no, no, i'm good, i'm good, i'm good. and did she ever say that back to you? yeah, sometimes, she would say

to me things like, "um, when you come in and you're doing that but, can you just maybe, like, where you're standing, i don't know, but it's just really..." i'd go, "0k, ok, i'll stand over there then!" so it was quite, it was, it was brilliant though. of course we had the added bonus of knowing how to push each other�*s buttons, which, let me tell you, we can do quite well and we definitely lent on that resource considerably when we were filming, so, yeah, it was good. i heard your phone going in the early hours of the morning, darling, it's not the best idea. beginning of a school week, sweetheart. who on earth is possibly messaging you at that time of night anyway? i'm not sure if you should be wearing quite such a revealing skirt to school. i'm not sure you should be wearing such a horrible wine coloured dress with such a low neckline. why have you got the pink dots on your eyes? because it's part of the style that i try out on my face. why have you got those earrings in? why do you have that mascara on?

why do you have no contour on? why are you standing like that? it is a hard watch, because the issues are raw and your daughter's performance is incredible. it feels like we all know a family that has had some form of this terrible distress. do you want this film to be a warning to families about what can go wrong with social media? i don't know if i could use the word warning. it's great that you just did. but i think we want it to be an opening for conversation. we want to create a space in which people can say, "oh, my god, that's us. that's happening to us." and maybe not dismiss it as well as, well, that's happening to everyone, what are you going to do, and how do you stop them? and you can'tjust take their phone away. and, you know, i don't have any answers. we tried to make the mother proactive in the clumsy way that she is, but through lack of not knowing what to do, she did something primal in order

to step in and help. and luckily in our situation, it does turn a corner and things do change. but even things like there's a scene with a doctor who was a real doctor, and there's a scene with her where she talks about the process of how you get help for mental health. because some people really don't know how to get help, and don't know what the process is, and wouldn't even have the courage to sit down with a doctor and say there's something wrong. because there's an element of strange shame, i think, around talking about mental health as though it's the parent's failure. i think i need to tell you that i'm really struggling. darling, i'm finding this really extremely hard. i'm sorry to put that on you, when i know you're going through a lot of stuff too. but i'm finding this really difficult. there are some real moments in the film that i think will resonate so much with parents watching across the country.

a moment where your character ruth is listening at the door and she can hear on the other side freya's phone going, ping, ping... ping, ping into the early hours of the morning, yeah, yeah. and you feel that sense of powerlessness. do you think parents do feel that theyjust don't have power, this sort of battle between parents and the iphone or facebook, mark zuckerberg, you have sort of families versus big tech? yeah, i think you're right. i think that's exactly what's happening. i think the parents are being rendered utterly powerless and i think it's incredibly hard. you know, people will often say to me, "oh, god, kate, how do you do it?" i don't have any answers or some magic wand i can wave. you know, sometimes i wish i had a manual as well. and i've full on stared at both of my children, my teenage children at times, and thought to myself, "my god, i don't know what i'm supposed to do at all." you know, it's time to phone a friend. i mean, we all have those moments. but i do definitely feel that the world of social media is frightening to parents

because we don't really know what's there. we don't know how our children are using it. we don't know the effect that it's really having on them. we don't know really what's going on in theirfriendship groups any more, because so much of it is actually built on phones, inside phones, this world thatjust... you can burrow deeper and deeper into it and it becomes darker and trickier and much, much harderfor children to navigate. and i think because people, young children are having phones at a much earlier age, they're able to access things that emotionally they're just not equipped or sophisticated enough to know how to process. you know, there are parents who are sifting around in the rubble of covid going, "what the hell do i do? who is this person who used to be my lovely child?" i mean, it happens... we all know these stories, you know, whether it's happened to us or we have friends who come to us and say, "oh, my god, what do i do?"

or, "what do you do?" i don't know. it's a really frightening time to be a parent, i think. do you think there needs to be more regulation? i mean, should we just say social media shouldn't be available to people under a certain age, or what might be the answer? it's a difficult one because when you're an individual in something of a high profile position, you know, we do have to be careful that we're using our voices wisely, hopefully telling stories that resonate, speaking with integrity and leading with the truth. those things are very important to me. i really do struggle with social media. i struggle with the impact it's clearly having on teenage mental health. i do wish that our government would crack down on it. i do wish that there would be certain platforms that were banned before a certain age. i wish that security checks would be much more rigorous. you know, teenagers... where there's a will, there's a way. so if they want to get on that platform, they will. but i do believe that there

needs to be a lot more protection and accountability. because parents are left flailing, going, well, thank you so much, government. look whatjust happened to my child. and how can you possibly tell me that, oops, it's not my fault. there's people shirking responsibility all the time, that i struggle with. i really struggle with that. who's shirking responsibility, though? you answer that question. well, is it the tech companies, or should it be the role of governments? i mean, maybe governments, in a way, are also struggling with this huge change. i think what i want to be really careful of is that there aren't headlines saying "kate winslet attacks big tech." i certainly don't want to do that. that's not what this is about for me at all. i just think that the people who know that they could do better to protect our children should just be doing that. whoever those people are, they know who they are, they should just step up and do better. one of the things you talk a lot, listening to you speak, you use the word real a lot. and in real life, what's happening in this country right now is a lot of people are struggling and struggling to pay the bills.

and you recently donated a large amount of money, £17,000, to a mother with a disabled child who had gone online and just said, "i can't manage. i'm not going to be able to keep the lights on." why did you do that? how did you hear about it? something popped up on the bbc scotland news page about this woman, carolynne hunter's story, and her saying that she would have to put her child, who has severe cerebral palsy and very, very extreme needs and is nonverbal, that she was going to have to put her child into care because she could not afford her electricity bills. and it absolutely destroyed me. ijust thought, on what planet is anyone going to let that happen? this is completely, completely wrong. we were able to track her down and say that i had wanted to make a donation and it was because of that that they then set up a gofundme page and bang, i was able to do it right away. and itjust felt... it was just wrong to me that this

woman was going to suffer and that she should have been in any way as a mother forced to make such a heartbreaking decision because she simply didn't have the support and couldn't pay the bills. i just couldn't let that happen. is there a place, though, for people with lots of resources to be taking that kind of individual action? what does it say about us as a country that that's happening? i think wejust... i mean, people just... the powers that be need to have a good think and they need to get it right and they need to make changes that will actually help these people. you know, adults are great at fundraising for groups and for other adults and sometimes for large groups of children. but i have always been really cut in half by the plight of the individual. and there seems to be very little lack of support for individuals whose situations are extreme, are different. you can't categorise them. you can't tick a box, you can't say, well, you're not eligible for school

meals because you... i mean, this is ridiculous. if you can't afford to pay for your child's school meals, someone else should be paying for it. don't let the child go hungry. can you hear how i'm getting so passionate in my old age?! you're going to become an activist. look at me, hurrrgh! but these things matter. i was a free school meals kid, myself and all my siblings, we were free school meals children. and i think that marcus rashford, what he has done, i was watching the match the other night with my son and i turned to him and i said, "do you have any idea how extraordinary that man is?" and joe said, "oh, yeah, yeah, he scored this..." i'm like, not talking about football. i was like, let me tell you exactly what that guy did during covid. and, i mean, hats off to someone like him. and we do have to, i think, use our voices and try and at least raise awareness or ruffle feathers. we have to ruffle up the system. why should it be the way that it is? if it isn't working, change it, fix it, do it better. come on, people. you know, you're grown ups. you've got the power to do it, do it.

i want to close by asking you about something completely different where you are clearly still having huge fun in your career, alongside the very gritty project of i am ruth is of course, the new avatar film. you turned your skin blue, learned to hold your breath for 7 minutes, setting some kind of extraordinary record. yeah, don't try this at home. and were reunited with james cameron, who, of course, you worked with on titanic. it's set, predicted to be the biggest movie ever. do you think it will be? i think it probably will be. i mean, the first one was absolutely extraordinary. and i think those themes of climate change and the impact that man is having on the environment, it's never been more prevalent and part of the conversation. and should people see it at the cinema? because steven spielberg, interestingly, at the beginning of his new film, he's giving a direct appeal to people saying, come to the movies, don't sit on your sofa and just watch things

on streaming services. well, i mean, i think the ideal is to go and see it in the cinema. but, you know, it's what can people afford? that's the thing, you know. and during covid, wasn't it brilliant? we could alljust sit there and watch what we wanted for a 10th of the price sometimes. so i think it is what people can afford. but if you can afford it, i definitely think for sure it's going to be that wonderful, cinematic, all—encompassing experience that's probably worth it. kate winslet, thank you so much for making the time to talk to us today. thank you, thank you. we have had kate winslet described the parents distress when it comes to social media, but the government minister baroness greta, essentially saying, when you get new legislation, that will be fine. i don't think so, and i think making more and more things illegal online will not lead tojustice. more and more things illegal online will not lead to justice. it doesn't talk about the things thatjimmy and

i are talking about which is the features that push that bad content. the government concentrating too much on the content and not enough on the actual responsibility. and i think what kate said which was just so compelling is what my inbox looks like. desperate parents, whojust feel powerless. you go, of course you are powerless against multinational organisation with psychologists and computer scientists who are directing your children to a given experience. now, i do agree that children should be online, and i do think it should be designed for them to be there. because it is literally their life come on, off. because it is literally their life come on. off-— because it is literally their life come on, off. because it is literally their life comeon, off. ., come on, off. and can't lock it away sto ou come on, off. and can't lock it away stop you can't _ come on, off. and can't lock it away stop you can't lock _ come on, off. and can't lock it away stop you can't lock it _ come on, off. and can't lock it away stop you can't lock it out. _ come on, off. and can't lock it away stop you can't lock it out. what - come on, off. and can't lock it away stop you can't lock it out. what do | stop you can't lock it out. what do you think?— you think? who is going to argue about protecting _ you think? who is going to argue about protecting children - you think? who is going to argue about protecting children from i about protecting children from abuse. — about protecting children from abuse, this is a form of abuse. we should _ abuse, this is a form of abuse. we should equally acknowledge another problem _

should equally acknowledge another problem of insufficient access to technology among young people and we are one _ technology among young people and we are one of— technology among young people and we are one of the supporters of the digital— are one of the supporters of the digital poverty alliance, half of young — digital poverty alliance, half of young people do not have access to broadband — young people do not have access to broadband at an adequate rate, affordable. a quarter of people did not have _ affordable. a quarter of people did not have access to computers during lockdown _ not have access to computers during lockdown. and we know that being online, _ lockdown. and we know that being online, being connected and the technology that allows you to make the most _ technology that allows you to make the most of that can give you life chances — the most of that can give you life chances that otherwise are held from you. chances that otherwise are held from you i_ chances that otherwise are held from you i guess— chances that otherwise are held from you. i guess this is another dimension of balance needs to be in this debate. dimension of balance needs to be in this debate-— this debate. jimmy, some people worked with _ this debate. jimmy, some people worked with the _ this debate. jimmy, some people worked with the government, - this debate. jimmy, some people i worked with the government, being one of the fence around the world to regulate this, you think there is a risk that some tech companies could say, we do not want to be in the uk any more? i say, we do not want to be in the uk any more?— any more? i think it is unlikely. it ma be any more? i think it is unlikely. it may be hard _ any more? i think it is unlikely. it may be hard for— any more? i think it is unlikely. it may be hard for smaller- any more? i think it is unlikely. it - may be hard for smaller competitors, new entrepreneurs, _ may be hard for smaller competitors, new entrepreneurs, if _ may be hard for smaller competitors, new entrepreneurs, if we _ may be hard for smaller competitors, new entrepreneurs, if we are - may be hard for smaller competitors, new entrepreneurs, if we are passing| new entrepreneurs, if we are passing rules which— new entrepreneurs, if we are passing rules which make _ new entrepreneurs, if we are passing rules which make it _ new entrepreneurs, if we are passing rules which make it very _ new entrepreneurs, if we are passing rules which make it very difficult - rules which make it very difficult to on— rules which make it very difficult to on different _ rules which make it very difficult to on different models _ rules which make it very difficult to on different models and - rules which make it very difficult to on different models and so i rules which make it very difficult - to on different models and so forth. ithink— to on different models and so forth. i think one — to on different models and so forth. i think one of— to on different models and so forth. i think one of the _ to on different models and so forth. i think one of the things, _ to on different models and so forth. i think one of the things, simply- i think one of the things, simply more _ i think one of the things, simply more things— i think one of the things, simply more things being _ i think one of the things, simply more things being made - i think one of the things, simply more things being made illegall i think one of the things, simply. more things being made illegal is not really— more things being made illegal is not really the _ more things being made illegal is not really the right _ more things being made illegal is not really the right answer. - more things being made illegal is not really the right answer. the l not really the right answer. the

bill does — not really the right answer. the bill does not _ not really the right answer. the bill does not even _ not really the right answer. the bill does not even contain - not really the right answer. the bill does not even contain £1. not really the right answer. the bill does not even contain £1 of| bill does not even contain £1 of funding — bill does not even contain £1 of funding for— bill does not even contain £1 of funding for police _ bill does not even contain £1 of funding for police and - bill does not even contain £1 of funding for police and social i bill does not even contain £1 of. funding for police and social care organisations— funding for police and social care organisations to _ funding for police and social care organisations to deal— funding for police and social care organisations to deal with - funding for police and social care organisations to deal with thingsj organisations to deal with things that are — organisations to deal with things that are already— organisations to deal with things that are already illegal. - organisations to deal with things that are already illegal. they - organisations to deal with things that are already illegal. they are really _ that are already illegal. they are really underserved. _ that are already illegal. they are really underserved. baroness . that are already illegal. they are - really underserved. baroness kidron mentioned _ really underserved. baroness kidron mentioned pass _ really underserved. baroness kidron mentioned pass to _ really underserved. baroness kidron mentioned pass tojustice, - really underserved. baroness kidron mentioned pass to justice, that's - mentioned pass tojustice, that's really— mentioned pass tojustice, that's really important. _ mentioned pass tojustice, that's really important. people - mentioned pass tojustice, that's really important. people are - mentioned pass to justice, that's. really important. people are being abused _ really important. people are being abused online, _ really important. people are being abused online, if— really important. people are being abused online, if illegal— really important. people are being abused online, if illegal things - really important. people are being abused online, if illegal things arej abused online, if illegal things are happening. — abused online, if illegal things are happening. do— abused online, if illegal things are happening. do they— abused online, if illegal things are happening, do they have - abused online, if illegal things are happening, do they have a - abused online, if illegal things are happening, do they have a way . abused online, if illegal things are happening, do they have a way to| abused online, if illegal things are i happening, do they have a way to get justice? _ happening, do they have a way to get justice? and — happening, do they have a way to get 'ustice? �* ~' ., happening, do they have a way to get 'ustice? �* ~ ., ., justice? and i think one of the thins justice? and i think one of the things that — justice? and i think one of the things that is _ justice? and i think one of the things that is missing - justice? and i think one of the things that is missing in - justice? and i think one of the things that is missing in the i justice? and i think one of the. things that is missing in the bill right now is an independent complaints mechanism. that's one of the things that i know colleagues both ends of the house are worried about. if you are someone who is taking on a battle with the tech company in the tech company doesn't really respond to you... if company in the tech company doesn't really respond to you. . ._ really respond to you... if you took on facebook? _ really respond to you... if you took on facebook? where _ really respond to you... if you took on facebook? where are _ really respond to you... if you took on facebook? where are you - really respond to you... if you took on facebook? where are you going really respond to you... if you took. on facebook? where are you going to no? the on facebook? where are you going to go? the government _ on facebook? where are you going to go? the government has _ on facebook? where are you going to go? the government has this - on facebook? where are you going to | go? the government has this systems and processes approach which is fine, but you have to be able to go somewhere. perhaps the thing which is missing in this conversation is their claim to exceptional it. these are consumer facing their claim to exceptional it. these are consumerfacing products. and it was a car, you would have to be able

to put a brake on a rear view mirror. , . , mirror. so it is the tech pros thinkin: mirror. so it is the tech pros thinking that _ mirror. so it is the tech pros thinking that they _ mirror. so it is the tech pros thinking that they are - mirror. so it is the tech pros| thinking that they are special mirror. so it is the tech pros - thinking that they are special cases in silicon valley has its own universe, is that how they behave? in some cases. we have to remember that the _ in some cases. we have to remember that the internet _ in some cases. we have to remember that the internet is _ in some cases. we have to remember that the internet is much _ in some cases. we have to remember that the internet is much bigger- that the internet is much bigger than _ that the internet is much bigger than a _ that the internet is much bigger than a handful— that the internet is much bigger than a handful of— that the internet is much bigger than a handful of these - that the internet is much bigger than a handful of these huge i than a handful of these huge platforms _ than a handful of these huge platforms. there _ than a handful of these huge platforms. there are - than a handful of these huge platforms. there are a - than a handful of these huge platforms. there are a lot i than a handful of these huge platforms. there are a lot ofj than a handful of these huge - platforms. there are a lot of things going _ platforms. there are a lot of things going on— platforms. there are a lot of things going on out— platforms. there are a lot of things going on out there _ platforms. there are a lot of things going on out there which _ platforms. there are a lot of things going on out there which makes . platforms. there are a lot of things going on out there which makes allj going on out there which makes all of these _ going on out there which makes all of these more _ going on out there which makes all of these more complicated - going on out there which makes all of these more complicated than . of these more complicated than simple — of these more complicated than simple saying. _ of these more complicated than simple saying, here _ of these more complicated than simple saying, here are - of these more complicated than simple saying, here are three i simple saying, here are three companies _ simple saying, here are three companies we _ simple saying, here are three companies we need _ simple saying, here are three companies we need to - simple saying, here are three . companies we need to regulate. simple saying, here are three - companies we need to regulate. do ou companies we need to regulate. you think when you at what the uk has done, do you think the government stands a chance against the bigger platforms you make the important point there are a lot of people out, but who is really in charge of this. nobody is really in

charge of the internet, _ charge of this. nobody is really in charge of the internet, that's - charge of this. nobody is really in charge of the internet, that's just j charge of the internet, that'sjust a fact _ charge of the internet, that's 'ust a fact. ~ . , ., charge of the internet, that's 'ust a fact. ~ . ~' charge of the internet, that's 'ust afact. ~ ., ,, ., ., a fact. what you think about that, baroness kidron? _ a fact. what you think about that, baroness kidron? it _ a fact. what you think about that, baroness kidron? it is _ a fact. what you think about that, baroness kidron? it is a _ a fact. what you think about that, baroness kidron? it is a really - baroness kidron? it is a really interesting — baroness kidron? it is a really interesting question _ baroness kidron? it is a really interesting question which - baroness kidron? it is a really i interesting question which keeps coming up, who is in charge? there is no great drama

operationally— there is no great drama operationally for- there is no great drama operationally for us. - there is no great dramaj operationally for us. we there is no great drama - operationally for us. we would normally— operationally for us. we would normally not _ operationally for us. we would normally not planned - operationally for us. we would normally not planned for - operationally for us. we would normally not planned for this i operationally for us. we would. normally not planned for this —— operationally for us. we would - normally not planned for this —— we will plan _ normally not planned for this —— we will plan for — normally not planned for this —— we will plan for this _ normally not planned for this —— we will plan for this sort _ normally not planned for this —— we will plan for this sort of— normally not planned for this —— we will plan for this sort of thing - normally not planned for this —— we will plan for this sort of thing all- will plan for this sort of thing all the time — will plan for this sort of thing all the time and the _ will plan for this sort of thing all the time and the relatively- will plan for this sort of thing all the time and the relatively few. the time and the relatively few smaller— the time and the relatively few smaller parcels— the time and the relatively few smaller parcels we _ the time and the relatively few smaller parcels we distribute l smaller parcels we distribute through— smaller parcels we distribute through royal— smaller parcels we distribute through royal mail— smaller parcels we distribute through royal mail are - smaller parcels we distribute | through royal mail are pretty smaller parcels we distribute - through royal mail are pretty easily switchable — through royal mail are pretty easily switchable to — through royal mail are pretty easily switchable to another— through royal mail are pretty easily switchable to another provider. - switchable to another provider. there _ switchable to another provider. there is — switchable to another provider. there is a — switchable to another provider. there is a bigger— switchable to another provider. there is a bigger point. - switchable to another provider. |there is a bigger point. . there switchable to another provider. i |there is a bigger point. . there is there is a bigger point. . there is cost _ there is a bigger point. . there is cost of— there is a bigger point. . there is cost of living _ there is a bigger point. . there is cost of living crisis _ there is a bigger point. . there is cost of living crisis which - there is a bigger point. . there is cost of living crisis which is - there is a bigger point. . there is cost of living crisis which is at - cost of living crisis which is at the root — cost of living crisis which is at the root of _ cost of living crisis which is at the root of the _ cost of living crisis which is at the root of the strikes - cost of living crisis which is at the root of the strikes and . cost of living crisis which is at the root of the strikes and it. cost of living crisis which is at - the root of the strikes and it does not help— the root of the strikes and it does not help in— the root of the strikes and it does not help in our— the root of the strikes and it does not help in our colleagues- the root of the strikes and it does not help in our colleagues cannot| not help in our colleagues cannot -et not help in our colleagues cannot get to— not help in our colleagues cannot get to work. _ not help in our colleagues cannot get to work. it _ not help in our colleagues cannot get to work, it doesn't _ not help in our colleagues cannot get to work, it doesn't help - not help in our colleagues cannot get to work, it doesn't help when not help in our colleagues cannot. get to work, it doesn't help when we cannot— get to work, it doesn't help when we cannot get— get to work, it doesn't help when we cannot get stuff— get to work, it doesn't help when we cannot get stuff delivered _ get to work, it doesn't help when we cannot get stuff delivered to - cannot get stuff delivered to customers. _ cannot get stuff delivered to customers, and _ cannot get stuff delivered to customers, and the - cannot get stuff delivered to customers, and the wage i cannot get stuff delivered to . customers, and the wage price inflationary— customers, and the wage price inflationary spiral— customers, and the wage price inflationary spiral will - customers, and the wage price inflationary spiral will make . customers, and the wage price - inflationary spiral will make things worse _ inflationary spiral will make things worse for— inflationary spiral will make things worse for anybody— inflationary spiral will make things worse for anybody for— inflationary spiral will make things worse for anybody for longer. - inflationary spiral will make things| worse for anybody for longer. your workers are _ worse for anybody for longer. your workers are being _ worse for anybody for longer. workers are being given a 15% pay increase but over a period of time, i imagine no boss wants to give that pay rise because you look at your spreadsheets but why did you make that decision?— spreadsheets but why did you make that decision? actually the percent! sor , to

that decision? actually the percent! sorry. to -- — that decision? actually the percent! sorry. to "1696!— that decision? actually the percent! sorry, to -- 1696! sorry _ that decision? actually the percent! sorry, to -- 1696! sorry to _ sorry, to “16%! sorry to underscore your generosity! i sorry, to -- 1696! sorry to underscore your generosity! i would love to say this _ underscore your generosity! i would love to say this because _ underscore your generosity! i would love to say this because we - underscore your generosity! i would love to say this because we are - underscore your generosity! i would love to say this because we are nice people _ love to say this because we are nice people which — love to say this because we are nice people which of— love to say this because we are nice people which of course _ love to say this because we are nice people which of course we - love to say this because we are nice people which of course we are, - love to say this because we are nice people which of course we are, buti people which of course we are, but we need _ people which of course we are, but we need to— people which of course we are, but we need to maintain— people which of course we are, but we need to maintain motivated - we need to maintain motivated workforce _ we need to maintain motivated workforce is— we need to maintain motivated workforce. is this _ we need to maintain motivated workforce. is this like - we need to maintain motivated workforce. is this like us, - we need to maintain motivated workforce. is this like us, it- we need to maintain motivated workforce. is this like us, it is. workforce. is this like us, it is very— workforce. is this like us, it is very hard _ workforce. is this like us, it is very hard we _ workforce. is this like us, it is very hard. we need _ workforce. is this like us, it is very hard. we need to- workforce. is this like us, it is. very hard. we need to maintain a motivate — very hard. we need to maintain a motivate colleagues. _ very hard. we need to maintain a motivate colleagues. we - very hard. we need to maintain a motivate colleagues. we need i very hard. we need to maintain a - motivate colleagues. we need access to talent. _ motivate colleagues. we need access to talent. that's — motivate colleagues. we need access to talent, that's the _ motivate colleagues. we need access to talent, that's the price _ motivate colleagues. we need access to talent, that's the price we - motivate colleagues. we need access to talent, that's the price we pay- to talent, that's the price we pay for talent — to talent, that's the price we pay for talent. ., ., , for talent. how tough is the challenge — for talent. how tough is the challenge like _ for talent. how tough is the challenge like right - for talent. how tough is the challenge like right now? i for talent. how tough is the - challenge like right now? amazon are doing some of the same things in a different way, for example? it has different way, for example? it has been a lively _ different way, for example? it has been a lively few _ different way, for example? it has been a lively few years _ different way, for example? it has been a lively few years for - retailers some of my competitors, who actually — retailers some of my competitors, who actually pay— retailers some of my competitors, who actually pay some _ retailers some of my competitors, who actually pay some tax. - retailers some of my competitors, who actually pay some tax. what. retailers some of my competitors, who actually pay some tax. what you mean by that? _ who actually pay some tax. what you

mean by that? some _ who actually pay some tax. what you mean by that? some of _ who actually pay some tax. what you mean by that? some of my _ who actually pay some tax. what you i mean by that? some of my competitors are -a in: mean by that? some of my competitors are paying tax — mean by that? some of my competitors are paying tax to _ mean by that? some of my competitors are paying tax to pay — mean by that? some of my competitors are paying tax to pay for _ are paying tax to pay for infrastructure _ are paying tax to pay for infrastructure and - are paying tax to pay for. infrastructure and amazon are paying tax to pay for- infrastructure and amazon are getting — infrastructure and amazon are getting a _ infrastructure and amazon are getting a free _ infrastructure and amazon are getting a free ride. _ infrastructure and amazon are getting a free ride. the - infrastructure and amazon are - getting a free ride. the government are making — getting a free ride. the government are making moves _ getting a free ride. the government are making moves but _ getting a free ride. the government are making moves but much - getting a free ride. the government are making moves but much more i getting a free ride. the government- are making moves but much more needs to be done _ are making moves but much more needs to be done. . are making moves but much more needs to be done. , ., , ., to be done. there is a proposal which has _ to be done. there is a proposal which has been _ to be done. there is a proposal which has been knocking - to be done. there is a proposal| which has been knocking around to be done. there is a proposal - which has been knocking around for the labour party, we will talk to bridget phillipson in a while, that they were going to scrap the house of lords. you are a crossbench peer, keir starmer may not want to do that straightaway, but would you vote for it and do yourself out of a job? unusually, i am the turkey who would vote for christmas. i do want to do a shout out for my colleagues. there is such a loss of expertise and scrutiny which goes on in the north which is immensely important. i think the crossbenchers who are not whipped into action, and go with their conscience and the fact in front of them. i would love to see an elected second chamber, but i would like it to actually include

some of those capabilities because otherwise i think we lose as much as we gain. 1 otherwise i think we lose as much as we rain. ., ., ., , , we gain. i would love to see people like baroness _ we gain. i would love to see people like baroness kidron _ we gain. i would love to see people like baroness kidron in _ we gain. i would love to see people like baroness kidron in the - we gain. i would love to see people like baroness kidron in the house i we gain. i would love to see people | like baroness kidron in the house of lords _ like baroness kidron in the house of lords who— like baroness kidron in the house of lords who are not politicians. we need _ lords who are not politicians. we need to _ lords who are not politicians. we need to preserve at least some voice or expertise — need to preserve at least some voice or expertise in the house of lords. you don't — or expertise in the house of lords. you don't want to use that quality of discussion. i wanted to show our viewers, you cannot escape in the newspapers, pictures of harry and meghan who revealed their trailer further netflix documentary this week and just happened to got it at the same time that kate and william were on a long anticipated visit to the united states. i know that through your work, baroness kidron, as a digital rights campaignerfor children, you have had some connection with them. they have praised your work. what you think is going on? i don't know what's going on. to be honest i'm going to do something different which is to say that both

harry and william have been phenomenal in putting my issue, the issue of child safety online front and centre for everybody�*s concern. i think they are legitimately excellent in what online abuse looks like. so let's leave it at that. that is very tactfully done, i'm sure there will be lots more conversation about what is really going on this week across the nation and may be from you too because as always we want to hear your thoughts. i wonder what your experiences are of trying to protect yourself, or your family from less than savoury content online. you can email us at: we read all your emails and as you know, sometimes ask your questions on the show. bridget phillipson wants to be responsible for the education

of kids in england — she'd be labour's education seceraty if they win the next election — welcome. we have been talking a lot about online safety. labour backs the government plans overall but you have criticised this idea of dropping the notion of legal but harmful. how would you define legal but harmful without hurting freedom of speech? it is but harmful without hurting freedom of seech? . . but harmful without hurting freedom ofseech? ., . but harmful without hurting freedom ofseech? ,., ., . of speech? it is a balance you need to strike. overall _ of speech? it is a balance you need to strike. overall we _ of speech? it is a balance you need to strike. overall we had _ of speech? it is a balance you need to strike. overall we had been - to strike. overall we had been disappointed about the delays in bringing forward this legislation. the debate we were having in parliament tomorrow was supposed to happen back injuly. it parliament tomorrow was supposed to happen back in july-— happen back in july. it didn't ha en happen back in july. it didn't happen because _ happen back in july. it didn't happen because of - happen back in july. it didn't happen because of the - happen back in july. it didn't happen because of the vote | happen back in july. it didn't i happen because of the vote of no—confidence in borisjohnson. it is due in this area that we are not getting decisions taken because of the chaos we have seen, but i think it is important that we make sure children and others, other vulnerable people are kept safe online. like all parents, you worry about the impact on children and you also worry about the real problem is we are seeing right now around

mental health. that's why labour is planning around guaranteeing access to mental health, delivering mental health counsellors in every school is an important part of a wider discussion that you were just having about the online space and its impact, but what are the wider pressures our children and young people are facing right now. if people are facing right now. if labour wins the election, would you restore this idea of content being taken down, that it is harmful even if not illegal for adults? would you put that back into the law? yes. put that back into the law? yes, because that — put that back into the law? yes, because that is _ put that back into the law? yes, because that is russian - because that is russian disinformation, it is misogynistic and organising online, the so—called intel culture. there's a lot in that online space that goes beyond the impact of children and young people, but where there is a need to make sure we are not allowing the harmful material to be spread because it then translates into what happens in our lives face—to—face as well. what our lives face-to-face as well. what about end-to-end _ our lives face—to—face as well. what about end—to—end encryption? there are some concerns about giving the government and the regulator the

power to see our private messages. would that be ok in your view? there are alwa s would that be ok in your view? there are always balances _ would that be ok in your view? there are always balances to _ would that be ok in your view? there are always balances to strike - would that be ok in your view? ties are always balances to strike and people have a right to privacy but at the same time we have seen instances where it means that in areas of national security it hasn't been possible for the government to act. as in all of these cases, it's about making sure there is a balance and there are checks around this. but what we have at the moment is a wild west and it can't continue in its current form. it's a real worry for parents and their needs to be action taken. it for parents and their needs to be action taken-— action taken. it feels like the beginning — action taken. it feels like the beginning and _ action taken. it feels like the beginning and not _ action taken. it feels like the beginning and not the - action taken. it feels like the beginning and not the end i action taken. it feels like the beginning and not the end ofj beginning and not the end of regulation online. let's talk about yourjob regulation online. let's talk about your job as regulation online. let's talk about yourjob as shadow education secretary. at the moment, labour's making a big play of staying away or take away the charitable status of private schools and rack up vat on the fees. ~ ., ., , ., private schools and rack up vat on the fees. ~ ., ., ,~. ., the fees. what would you say to those who _ the fees. what would you say to those who accuse _ the fees. what would you say to those who accuse you _ the fees. what would you say to those who accuse you of- the fees. what would you say to those who accuse you of trying . the fees. what would you say to . those who accuse you of trying to stir up the politics of envy? it's a question of fairness for me. private schools enjoy considerable tax breaks which i don't think can

bejustified and we tax breaks which i don't think can be justified and we would end those where it comes to vat and business rates, and put that £1.7 billion into delivering a brilliant state education for every child. my priority as education secretary would be to drive up standards in every corner of our country, and sadly we see lots of gaps that have emerged and widened, particularly where it comes to more people from disadvantaged backgrounds and parts of the north overall. the government is about priorities and choices, and if we end there was tax breaks, we can make a real impact in providing more teachers in our schools and better mental health support. it better mental health support. it would only raise £1.7 billion which is a huge amount of money but in terms of government spending, it's not going to be a transformational amount of cash. some of your critics might say you are enjoying winding up might say you are enjoying winding up the mailand might say you are enjoying winding up the mail and keeping the left of your party happy by dangling this is a proposition, but if you are only raising 1.7 billion, aren't you

going to cause a lot of disruption for parents and schools who are doing what they believe is the right thing? i doing what they believe is the right thin ? ., �* doing what they believe is the right thin? .,�* , doing what they believe is the right thing? i don't accept the spurious arguments _ thing? i don't accept the spurious arguments being _ thing? i don't accept the spurious arguments being made _ thing? i don't accept the spurious arguments being made by - thing? i don't accept the spurious arguments being made by the - thing? i don't accept the spurious - arguments being made by the private school lobbyists and it's a real shame the prime minister and the chancellor are parroting that bogus data around the impact and are not prepared to stand up in the vested interests. i am because i want to make sure we deliver a brilliant education for every child. i think it's a substantial amount of money and would allow us to make sure we have more teachers in our classrooms and better support for new heads coming through. at the moment when i speak to current head teachers, they are worried about where the next generation of school leaders will come from, so some of that money would also go towards making sure we have the next generation of head teachers coming through. i completely accept that will not be the entirety of labour's offer when it comes to education, there is a lot more that needs to be changed from the early years, in further education, right across the board a

shift in the culture we need to see around education. share shift in the culture we need to see around education.— shift in the culture we need to see around education. are you accusing arents of around education. are you accusing parents of sending _ around education. are you accusing parents of sending their _ around education. are you accusing parents of sending their kids - around education. are you accusing parents of sending their kids to - parents of sending their kids to private school are vested interests? no, all parents want the best for their kids but i also want the best for all kids in our country. 93% of children in our country attend state schools, that's my priority, but it is on justifiable given the massive fee increases way above and beyond earnings in cash terms that we use some of that money on vat to invest in a brilliant state education. i think that's what the vast majority of parents want. you think that's what the vast ma'ority of parents wantfi think that's what the vast ma'ority of parents want. you are also asking the markets — of parents want. you are also asking the markets authority _ of parents want. you are also asking the markets authority to _ of parents want. you are also asking the markets authority to invest - of parents want. you are also asking the markets authority to invest in i the markets authority to invest in school fees so it's confusing because you are trying to squeeze private schools for more money and also stand up for the parents of private school kids as consumers. brute private school kids as consumers. we have private school kids as consumers. - have seen over the last 20 years substantial increases in private school fees, we haven't seen a reduction in the number of children attending private schools which i think demonstrates the weak

arguments opponents of this are making. but i think there is a case that we are potentially seeing market failure here and i think the education secretary should get the cma involved into looking at this matter. again, are they going to do what's right or are they —— in hop? when i speak to teachers across our country, and school support staff too who i think it's important to recognise, they tell me how demoralised they are, how they feel they have been insulted and derided by the government during the pandemic when i think parents know how hard... share pandemic when i think parents know how hard- - -— how hard... are they right to hold out for i296 _ how hard. .. are they right to hold out for 1296 or— how hard... are they right to hold out for 1296 or is _ how hard... are they right to hold out for 1296 or is the _ how hard... are they right to hold out for 1296 or is the government | out for 12% or is the government right to say you can have 5% in england but no more than that because it's not affordable? thea;r because it's not affordable? they are riaht because it's not affordable? they are right to _ because it's not affordable? they are right to argue _ because it's not affordable? tue: are right to argue around because it's not affordable? tte: are right to argue around pay because it's not affordable? tte1 are right to argue around pay and to make the case around terms and conditions. it has come together at the worst possible time. 5’s conditions. it has come together at the worst possible time.— conditions. it has come together at the worst possible time. 596 on one end and 12% _

the worst possible time. 596 on one end and 12% on _ the worst possible time. 596 on one end and 1296 on the _ the worst possible time. 596 on one end and 1296 on the other, - the worst possible time. 596 on one end and 1296 on the other, who - the worst possible time. 596 on one end and 1296 on the other, who is i end and 12% on the other, who is right here? would you give them 12%? the unions are desperate for a conversation. if i were education secretary, i would be sat around the table trying to get a compromise. but where is the compromise? you say you would find one. tt is but where is the compromise? you say you would find one.— you would find one. it is often somewhere — you would find one. it is often somewhere in _ you would find one. it is often somewhere in the _ you would find one. it is often somewhere in the middle - you would find one. it is often somewhere in the middle and| you would find one. it is often - somewhere in the middle and that's why it's a process of negotiation. it's about pay but also terms and conditions. what teachers tell me they feel is that they are demoralised, the government hasn't had their back and they want to know there is hope for the future and that's why we need more teachers in our classrooms. t that's why we need more teachers in our classrooms.— our classrooms. i want to ask you also about _ our classrooms. i want to ask you also about child _ our classrooms. i want to ask you also about child care. _ our classrooms. i want to ask you also about child care. you - our classrooms. i want to ask you j also about child care. you believe childcare should be a big part of the education system and i know you have recently been to estonia where all kids get a nursery place from 18 months on end parents only pay £60 a month. how would it be affordable in this country?—

this country? childcare and early ears is a this country? childcare and early years is a real — this country? childcare and early years is a real priority _ this country? childcare and early years is a real priority for - this country? childcare and early years is a real priority for me - this country? childcare and early| years is a real priority for me and it is whenever you speak to parents because lots of women in particular are giving upjobs they because lots of women in particular are giving up jobs they love because they can't get available and affordable childcare. if you want a plan around growth in our country, you have to make sure we are giving parents choices. also if you want really high standards in schools, you need to address the attainment gap which opens up early, so making sure all children receive a great start in life at the earliest possible point will do a lot to address challenges schools are facing right now.— address challenges schools are facing right now. great to have you back when your _ facing right now. great to have you back when your plans _ facing right now. great to have you back when your plans are - facing right now. great to have you back when your plans are more - back when your plans are more detailed on childcare to hear more about it. finally, if labour wins the election, will you get rid of the election, will you get rid of the house of lords? brute the election, will you get rid of the house of lords?— the election, will you get rid of the house of lords? we will make sure we have _ the house of lords? we will make sure we have an _ the house of lords? we will make sure we have an elected _ the house of lords? we will make sure we have an elected second i sure we have an elected second chamber. , , , chamber. definitively in the first term? that's — chamber. definitively in the first term? that's the _ chamber. definitively in the first term? that's the plan. - chamber. definitively in the first term? that's the plan. there . chamber. definitively in the first| term? that's the plan. there will chamber. definitively in the first - term? that's the plan. there will be lots of conversation _ term? that's the plan. there will be lots of conversation about _ term? that's the plan. there will be lots of conversation about this - term? that's the plan. there will be lots of conversation about this weekj lots of conversation about this week as keir starmer has a big announcement tomorrow, i believe. bridget philipson, thank you for coming in to speak to us.

now, it's nearly ten, nearly time to go. we've been talking about protecting ourselves and our children online this morning. let's hear again what nadhim zahawi said. . . . let's hear again what nadhim zahawi said. , , ., ., ., ~ let's hear again what nadhim zahawi said. , ., ., ,, , let's hear again what nadhim zahawi said. , , . . . ~' , ~ said. this is a landmark bill. when i was education _ said. this is a landmark bill. when i was education secretary, - said. this is a landmark bill. when i was education secretary, i - said. this is a landmark bill. when | i was education secretary, i hauled in the tech companies with the children's commissioner, and the bill now embeds that protection for children which is so important. i have a young daughter and i have no problem with her dealing with challenging issues online, but not damaging issues. we challenging issues online, but not damaging issues.— damaging issues. we will keep a close e e damaging issues. we will keep a close eye what _ damaging issues. we will keep a close eye what happens - damaging issues. we will keep a close eye what happens in - damaging issues. we will keep a - close eye what happens in parliament this week when the online safety bill is back for discussion but let's talk about what is probably on a lot of people's minds, the world cup. the big game is tonight. traditionally their world cup means people buying new televisions, has that been happening this time? tt does. in an ideal world we would have semi finals with wales, denmark

and england all represented but sadly that is not going to happen. if i canjust on my england shirt this evening and get away temporarily from the miseries of being a chelsea fan. lats temporarily from the miseries of being a chelsea fan.— temporarily from the miseries of being a chelsea fan. lots of people have sympathy. we _ being a chelsea fan. lots of people have sympathy. we can see - have sympathy. we can see the england team training, marcus rashford some of the other players practising for tonight. where you will —— where will you be watching the match and how big is your tv? the super sizing trend is a really important one and it's not too late. how big is your telly? mine important one and it's not too late. how big is your telly?— how big is your telly? mine is over 70 inches- — how big is your telly? mine is over 70 inches. baroness _ how big is your telly? mine is over 70 inches. baroness kidron, - how big is your telly? mine is over 70 inches. baroness kidron, will. how big is your telly? mine is over. 70 inches. baroness kidron, will you be watching — 70 inches. baroness kidron, will you be watching the _ 70 inches. baroness kidron, will you be watching the football, _ 70 inches. baroness kidron, will you be watching the football, and - 70 inches. baroness kidron, will you | be watching the football, and where? i want to say fever is morally bankrupt _ i want to say fever is morally bankrupt and it shouldn't be in 0atar~ — bankrupt and it shouldn't be in qatar. any official going should wear _ qatar. any official going should wear armbands on both sides because they wont— wear armbands on both sides because they won't get a yellow card but if they won't get a yellow card but if they can _ they won't get a yellow card but if they can reproduce what the lionesses dead, i will be jumping up on down _ lionesses dead, i will be jumping up on down on — lionesses dead, i will be jumping up on down on the sofa. | rdrill lionesses dead, i will be 'umping up on down on the sofa._ on down on the sofa. i will be home with my girls. _ on down on the sofa. i will be home with my girls. and _ on down on the sofa. i will be home with my girls, and we _ on down on the sofa. i will be home with my girls, and we won't - on down on the sofa. i will be home with my girls, and we won't be - with my girls, and we won't be on social— with my girls, and we won't be on social media. _ with my girls, and we won't be on social media, we _ with my girls, and we won't be on social media, we will— with my girls, and we won't be on

social media, we will be - with my girls, and we won't be on social media, we will be watching| social media, we will be watching the telly — social media, we will be watching the tell . , , ., ., social media, we will be watching the tell . , , ., ., the telly. very, very good to hear it. thank the telly. very, very good to hear it- thank you _ the telly. very, very good to hear it. thank you all— the telly. very, very good to hear it. thank you all so _ the telly. very, very good to hear it. thank you all so much - the telly. very, very good to hear it. thank you all so much for- the telly. very, very good to hear i it. thank you all so much for coming on this morning. it's been a great conversation with you here at the desk. what we've been talking about this morning is a telling example of how hard modern politics is. you'd be hard pushed to find anyone who thinks no action needs to be taken to rein in the worst excesses of the internet. but equally, you'd struggle to find any so called solution that the tech companies will tolerate that will satisfy every parent and all the political parties. after delays, the government does plan to do something rather than nothing — and that's a landmark moment. it matters that there will be a regulator for the first time to check on what is being published on the internet. but it's a beginning, not an ending to the dilemma of how governments and politicians shape what happens online. just as some of us might feel powerless, maybe some of them do too. technology changes even faster than the conservatives change their leader! thank you so much for watching —

on tv or indeed online, where you can always catch up on iplayer later on. see you next week. goodbye.

this is bbc news. i'm joanna gosling, with the headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. a slowdown in the fighting in ukraine — us intelligence say they expect the intensity of the war to decrease as the country heads deeper into the winter. it's minus four degrees celcius here in kyiv, where i've been speaking to people with no power or shelter as conditions worsen. iam i am jessica parker i amjessica parker in kyiv, where temperatures are sub zero while some families struggle with power cuts and may not have proper shelter shelter this summer. authorities in iran say they are moving to dismantle the police unit that enforces the islamic dress code, after a wave of anti—government protests engulfed the country. the uk government says it's putting contingency plans in place to minimise disruption, from a series of public sector strikes expected in the run—up to christmas.