a very good morning to you. this is bbc news — these are the latest headlines in the uk and around the world. nurses across england, wales and northern ireland are beginning a second day of strikes. the nurses�* union wants more talks. ministers say their pay demands are not affordable. we are not willing to open negotiations about pay because we have an independent review body. that body makes recommendations every year and the government has accepted those. meanwhile — the health secretary will hold last—minute talks with ambulance unions this afternoon — to try to avert a strike scheduled for tomorrow. health bosses and union leaders will face questions from mps in parliament shortly — we'll cross live to hear what they have to say.

other headlines: a us congress committee says donald trump should face criminal charges — including insurrection — over the january 6th riot. donald trump claims it's a "partisan attempt" to stop him running for re—election. a 97—year old woman has been given a two year suspended sentence in germany — for her role as a secretary at a nazi concentration camp. # bands won't play no more.# terry hall — lead singer of the specials — has died at the age of 63 — his fellow band members describe him as one of the country's most brilliant singer songwriters. hello and welcome to bbc news.

nurses on strike today in many parts of the uk, ambulance staff about to go on strike tomorrow, so let's go straight to the health select committee at westminster which is currently hearing evidence about ambulance delays and strikes. let's listen in. if ambulance delays and strikes. let's listen in. iii ambulance delays and strikes. let's listen in. u, ambulance delays and strikes. let's listen in. , ., listen in. if i can start with you, julian. listen in. if i can start with you, julian- it _ listen in. if i can start with you, julian. it is important _ listen in. if i can start with you, julian. it is important to - julian. it is important to understand _ julian. it is important to understand how - julian. it is important to understand how the - julian. it is important to i understand how the whole julian. it is important to _ understand how the whole system is working _ understand how the whole system is working together at the moment. i think_ working together at the moment. i think the _ working together at the moment. i think the first point is around demand _ think the first point is around demand and demand in our emergency services _ demand and demand in our emergency services is _ demand and demand in our emergency services is up _ demand and demand in our emergency services is up to from a normal 2 degrees, — services is up to from a normal 2 degrees, especially at the moment, with increases in flue and increases in covid _ with increases in flue and increases in covid admissions at the coal stamp. — in covid admissions at the coal stamp. we _ in covid admissions at the coal stamp, we know cold weather is associated with ill health as well and we — associated with ill health as well and we have seen rises from those as well, _ and we have seen rises from those as well, and _ and we have seen rises from those as well, and that's notjust now but sustained — well, and that's notjust now but sustained over a period of time as weii~ _ sustained over a period of time as weii~ i_ sustained over a period of time as weii~ ithink— sustained over a period of time as well. i think the other side as the constraints — well. i think the other side as the constraints that we have around

flow, _ constraints that we have around flow, therefore occupancy within our hospitals _ flow, therefore occupancy within our hospitals. our occupancy levels are hospitals. 0ur occupancy levels are higher— hospitals. 0ur occupancy levels are higher now— hospitals. our occupancy levels are higher now than at most times of the year _ higher now than at most times of the year so— higher now than at most times of the year so we _ higher now than at most times of the year. so we are running at about 98% occupancy— year. so we are running at about 98% occupancy across our trusts. the reason _ occupancy across our trusts. the reason we — occupancy across our trusts. the reason we are running at those at the moment would appear mainly due to discharge, that we are struggling to discharge, that we are struggling to discharge, that we are struggling to discharge patients into alternative care positions. we know we have _ alternative care positions. we know we have a _ alternative care positions. we know we have a large number of patients who are _ we have a large number of patients who are what we would all have criteria — who are what we would all have criteria to — who are what we would all have criteria to reside, a way in which we can— criteria to reside, a way in which we can identify patients who may be iletter— we can identify patients who may be better cared for in other environments and we now have a large number— environments and we now have a large number of— environments and we now have a large number of those patients in our beds _ number of those patients in our beds. what we are trying to do is to understand — beds. what we are trying to do is to understand all of those flow systems to make _ understand all of those flow systems to make sure that we can respond to our most _ to make sure that we can respond to our most vulnerable and the sickest patients _ our most vulnerable and the sickest patients. the trouble when we have occupancy— patients. the trouble when we have occupancy in hospital very high is that the — occupancy in hospital very high is that the a&e services become overcrowded as patients wait in the emergency department to come into wards— emergency department to come into wards and _ emergency department to come into wards and that brings difficulty in bringing — wards and that brings difficulty in bringing ambulance patients out of

the ambulances and into the a&e departments increasing the number of ambulances outside the a&e department. that then has a consequence on ability to answer calls, _ consequence on ability to answer calls, because we know that the call handiers _ calls, because we know that the call handlers then get multiple calls against — handlers then get multiple calls against the same incident as people are ringing — against the same incident as people are ringing back to say, when can i expect— are ringing back to say, when can i exoect mv— are ringing back to say, when can i expect my ambulance, and our response — expect my ambulance, and our response times are in difficulty there _ response times are in difficulty there as — response times are in difficulty there as well. all these things are all interrelated across the whole pathwav — all interrelated across the whole pathway and what we are trying to do at all times— pathway and what we are trying to do at all times is to try and find solutions— at all times is to try and find solutions and ways in which we can make _ solutions and ways in which we can make the _ solutions and ways in which we can make the system more productive, so that we _ make the system more productive, so that we can _ make the system more productive, so that we can get patients through our systems— that we can get patients through our systems as — that we can get patients through our systems as easily as possible, and working _ systems as easily as possible, and working with our partners both in social— working with our partners both in social care — working with our partners both in social care and community care and mental— social care and community care and mental health care to try and get as many— mental health care to try and get as many patients at the correct time to meet _ many patients at the correct time to meet their— many patients at the correct time to meet their needs during their care period _ meet their needs during their care period as — meet their needs during their care period as well. those are the important _ period as well. those are the important background information that we _ important background information that we need to have. undoubtedly that we need to have. undoubtedly that means our response times are difficult _ that means our response times are difficult for — that means our response times are difficult for the ambulance service at the _

difficult for the ambulance service at the moment, and i know they are doing _ at the moment, and i know they are doing everv— at the moment, and i know they are doing every thing they can to try and improve those response times, both internally, but again working with partners across, especially with partners across, especially with the — with partners across, especially with the integrated care services to make _ with the integrated care services to make sure — with the integrated care services to make sure that we bring everyone together— make sure that we bring everyone together to try and find the solutions that we need to do. that includes _ solutions that we need to do. that includes increasing bed numbers which _ includes increasing bed numbers which is — includes increasing bed numbers which is what we have been trying to do across— which is what we have been trying to do across the nhs as well, we have an ambition — do across the nhs as well, we have an ambition to put 7000 more beds in an ambition to put 7000 more beds in a cross— an ambition to put 7000 more beds in a cross winter. we are on track to achieve _ a cross winter. we are on track to achieve those, both in real beds and also virtuai — achieve those, both in real beds and also virtual beds, it is important that we — also virtual beds, it is important that we look at new technology as weii~ _ that we look at new technology as well. those plans are there but it is not _ well. those plans are there but it is not just — well. those plans are there but it is not just a — well. those plans are there but it is notjust a question of new beds, because _ is notjust a question of new beds, because we — is notjust a question of new beds, because we cannot discharge we will fill those _ because we cannot discharge we will fill those beds so we have to do that with — fill those beds so we have to do that with process change at the same time _ that with process change at the same time so— that with process change at the same time so we — that with process change at the same time. so we are working really hard to try— time. so we are working really hard to try and _ time. so we are working really hard to try and improve those ambulance turnaround — to try and improve those ambulance turnaround times so that we can bring _ turnaround times so that we can bring patients most vulnerable from the community into where they need treatment— the community into where they need treatment in our hospitals including heart _ treatment in our hospitals including heart and _ treatment in our hospitals including heart and cardiac patients. we have also worked hard to try and protect

those _ also worked hard to try and protect those services such as cardiac and stroke _ those services such as cardiac and stroke services. we know that those patients _ stroke services. we know that those patients have time critical interventions which will help them interventions which will help them in the _ interventions which will help them in the long run. the ambulance service — in the long run. the ambulance service themselves have done a lot of work— service themselves have done a lot of work on — service themselves have done a lot of work on this in making sure that we have _ of work on this in making sure that we have the — of work on this in making sure that we have the right codes on the right patients— we have the right codes on the right patients in— we have the right codes on the right patients in the right category so that we — patients in the right category so that we can respond to those who are most _ that we can respond to those who are most sick— that we can respond to those who are most sick as— that we can respond to those who are most sick as quickly as possible. i'm most sick as quickly as possible. i'm really— most sick as quickly as possible. i'm really grateful for the support our colleagues have done around that work as— our colleagues have done around that work as well. we know that the call handiers _ work as well. we know that the call handlers themselves want to help those _ handlers themselves want to help those patients that they no need those _ those patients that they no need those time critical instances, so that's— those time critical instances, so that's what— those time critical instances, so that's what we are trying to do, to help them — that's what we are trying to do, to help them as well to make sure those ambuiance _ help them as well to make sure those ambulance response times improve. but it— ambulance response times improve. but it is— ambulance response times improve. but it is demand and flow which is our problem at the moment. thank you ve much our problem at the moment. thank you very much for— our problem at the moment. thank you very much for your _ our problem at the moment. thank you very much for your answer. _ our problem at the moment. thank you very much for your answer. john - very much for your answer. john martin, i'd like to ask question in the night that we are seeing an increase in demand on the service, increase in demand on the service, in my own ambulance trust a 16% increase since 2019 in demand on the service. how is the service actually

keeping up with the supply of workforce to be able to address that demand? clearly one thing we do know is that waiting times are increasing, in orderfor is that waiting times are increasing, in order for patients to receive vital care.— increasing, in order for patients to receive vital care. good morning. it is really difficult _ receive vital care. good morning. it is really difficult at _ receive vital care. good morning. it is really difficult at the _ receive vital care. good morning. it is really difficult at the moment - receive vital care. good morning. it is really difficult at the moment in l is really difficult at the moment in terms _ is really difficult at the moment in terms of— is really difficult at the moment in terms of those _ is really difficult at the moment in terms of those waiting _ is really difficult at the moment in terms of those waiting times, - is really difficult at the moment in| terms of those waiting times, they have got— terms of those waiting times, they have got tonger, _ terms of those waiting times, they have got longer, and _ terms of those waiting times, they have got longer, and we _ terms of those waiting times, they have got longer, and we can - terms of those waiting times, they have got longer, and we can see . terms of those waiting times, they. have got longer, and we can see that in the _ have got longer, and we can see that in the national— have got longer, and we can see that in the national data. _ have got longer, and we can see that in the national data. that _ have got longer, and we can see that in the national data. that is- have got longer, and we can see that in the national data. that is partly. in the national data. that is partly about— in the national data. that is partly about demand, _ in the national data. that is partly about demand, as _ in the national data. that is partly about demand, as we _ in the national data. that is partly about demand, as we have - in the national data. that is partly. about demand, as we have outlined, you mentioned — about demand, as we have outlined, you mentioned a _ about demand, as we have outlined, you mentioned a 16%, _ about demand, as we have outlined, you mentioned a 16%, look- about demand, as we have outlined, you mentioned a 16%, look back- about demand, as we have outlined, | you mentioned a 16%, look back over the you mentioned a16%, look back over the tast— you mentioned a 16%, look back over the last five — you mentioned a 16%, look back over the last five years _ you mentioned a 16%, look back over the last five years in _ you mentioned a 16%, look back over the last five years in england - you mentioned a 16%, look back over the last five years in england and - the last five years in england and it's gone — the last five years in england and it's gone up— the last five years in england and it's gone up by— the last five years in england and it's gone up by 18%. _ the last five years in england and it's gone up by 18%. really- it's gone up by 18%. really importantly— it's gone up by 18%. really importantly it _ it's gone up by 18%. really importantly it has - it's gone up by 18%. really importantly it has gone - it's gone up by 18%. really importantly it has gone up| it's gone up by 18%. really- importantly it has gone up much it's gone up by 18%. really— importantly it has gone up much more significantly— importantly it has gone up much more significantly in — importantly it has gone up much more significantly in the _ importantly it has gone up much more significantly in the higher— importantly it has gone up much more significantly in the higher acuity- significantly in the higher acuity categories, _ significantly in the higher acuity categories, what _ significantly in the higher acuity categories, what we _ significantly in the higher acuity categories, what we call- significantly in the higher acuity. categories, what we call category one is— categories, what we call category one is way— categories, what we call category one is way higher— categories, what we call category one is way higher than _ categories, what we call category one is way higher than it- categories, what we call category one is way higher than it was - one is way higher than it was previously, _ one is way higher than it was previously, above _ one is way higher than it was previously, above 50% - one is way higher than it was i previously, above 50% increase one is way higher than it was - previously, above 50% increase over the last _ previously, above 50% increase over the last five — previously, above 50% increase over the last five year— previously, above 50% increase over the last five year period. _ previously, above 50% increase over the last five year period. we - previously, above 50% increase over the last five year period. we are - the last five year period. we are seeing _ the last five year period. we are seeing a — the last five year period. we are seeing a sicker— the last five year period. we are seeing a sicker population - the last five year period. we are seeing a sicker population who i the last five year period. we are . seeing a sicker population who are calling _ seeing a sicker population who are calling us— seeing a sicker population who are calling us more _ seeing a sicker population who are calling us more often. _ seeing a sicker population who are calling us more often. paramedic. calling us more often. paramedic members — calling us more often. paramedic members of— calling us more often. paramedic members of the _ calling us more often. paramedic members of the college - calling us more often. paramedic- members of the college up—and—down the country— members of the college up—and—down the country are — members of the college up—and—down the country are working _ members of the college up—and—down the country are working extremely - the country are working extremely hard to— the country are working extremely hard to meet— the country are working extremely hard to meet the _ the country are working extremely hard to meet the needs _ the country are working extremely hard to meet the needs of- the country are working extremely. hard to meet the needs of patients, but we _ hard to meet the needs of patients, but we are — hard to meet the needs of patients, but we are seeing _ hard to meet the needs of patients, but we are seeing less _ hard to meet the needs of patients, but we are seeing less patients- hard to meet the needs of patients, but we are seeing less patients in. hard to meet the needs of patients, but we are seeing less patients in a| but we are seeing less patients in a shift than _ but we are seeing less patients in a shift than we — but we are seeing less patients in a shift than we did _ but we are seeing less patients in a shift than we did previously- but we are seeing less patients in a shift than we did previously and - shift than we did previously and that att— shift than we did previously and that all comes _ shift than we did previously and that all comes back— shift than we did previously and that all comes back to - shift than we did previously and that all comes back to the - shift than we did previously and that all comes back to the flowl shift than we did previously and . that all comes back to the flow and demand _ that all comes back to the flow and demand that— that all comes back to the flow and demand thatjulian _ that all comes back to the flow and

demand thatjulian has _ that all comes back to the flow and demand that julian has already- demand that julian has already outiined — demand that julian has already outiined so— demand that julian has already outlined. so if— demand that julian has already outlined. so if we _ demand that julian has already outlined. so if we went - demand that julian has already outlined. so if we went back. demand that julian has already outlined. so if we went back a| outlined. so if we went back a number— outlined. so if we went back a number of— outlined. so if we went back a number of years— outlined. so if we went back a number of years ago - outlined. so if we went back a number of years ago we - outlined. so if we went back a| number of years ago we would outlined. so if we went back a - number of years ago we would see more _ number of years ago we would see more patients, _ number of years ago we would see more patients, we _ number of years ago we would see more patients, we are _ number of years ago we would see more patients, we are seeing - number of years ago we would see more patients, we are seeing lessl more patients, we are seeing less patients, — more patients, we are seeing less patients, that _ more patients, we are seeing less patients, that causes _ more patients, we are seeing less patients, that causes a _ more patients, we are seeing less patients, that causes a problem, i more patients, we are seeing less. patients, that causes a problem, and for our— patients, that causes a problem, and for our members, _ patients, that causes a problem, and for our members, paramedics- patients, that causes a problem, and for our members, paramedics like i for our members, paramedics like myself, _ for our members, paramedics like myself, working _ for our members, paramedics like myself, working up—and—down- for our members, paramedics like| myself, working up—and—down the country. _ myself, working up—and—down the country. that— myself, working up—and—down the country. that is— myself, working up—and—down the country, that is having _ myself, working up—and—down the country, that is having a _ myself, working up—and—down the country, that is having a big - myself, working up—and—down thei country, that is having a big impact on us _ country, that is having a big impact on us and _ country, that is having a big impact on us and our— country, that is having a big impact on us and our morale _ country, that is having a big impact on us and our morale and - country, that is having a big impact on us and our morale and ability. country, that is having a big impact on us and our morale and ability to| on us and our morale and ability to care for— on us and our morale and ability to care for patients _ on us and our morale and ability to care for patients and _ on us and our morale and ability to care for patients and our— on us and our morale and ability to care for patients and our ability - on us and our morale and ability to care for patients and our ability to| care for patients and our ability to do what _ care for patients and our ability to do what we — care for patients and our ability to do what we need _ care for patients and our ability to do what we need to _ care for patients and our ability to do what we need to do _ care for patients and our ability to do what we need to do to - care for patients and our ability to do what we need to do to keep i do what we need to do to keep patients— do what we need to do to keep patients safe~ _ do what we need to do to keep patients safe.— do what we need to do to keep patients safe. thank you. if i can no on to patients safe. thank you. if i can go on to ask _ patients safe. thank you. if i can go on to ask darren, _ patients safe. thank you. if i can go on to ask darren, is _ patients safe. thank you. if i can go on to ask darren, is there - patients safe. thank you. if i can | go on to ask darren, is there now patients safe. thank you. if i can i go on to ask darren, is there now a call for a further reconfiguration of services to be able to address this crisis? there doesn't seem to be abating any time soon, it has been building for a substantial time, as we have heard, so do we need to look again at how the flows work within the system for greater patient safety and also to ensure people are seen in a more timely way, which we know it's clearly time critical? ,., ., way, which we know it's clearly time critical? ., , , critical? good morning, everybody. i will not repeat _ critical? good morning, everybody. i will not repeat what _ critical? good morning, everybody. i will not repeat what john _ critical? good morning, everybody. i will not repeat what john and - critical? good morning, everybody. i will not repeat what john and julian i will not repeat what john and julian have already said, but just to pick up have already said, but just to pick up on _ have already said, but just to pick up on a _ have already said, but just to pick up on a couple of things. in terms of reconfiguration, looking at the current— of reconfiguration, looking at the current models we have now across

england. _ current models we have now across england, i've been working very closely — england, i've been working very closely as— england, i've been working very closely as the chair of the association of ambulance chief executives with julian at the national nhs team, and looking at a revised _ national nhs team, and looking at a revised or— national nhs team, and looking at a revised or in your urgent and emergency care strategy. if you think— emergency care strategy. if you think about whatjulian emergency care strategy. if you think about what julian said early on about— think about what julian said early on about treating more patients over the phone _ on about treating more patients over the phone and signpost them to more appropriate care, or we indeed send appropriate care, or we indeed send a paramedic— appropriate care, or we indeed send a paramedic out to those patients and then— a paramedic out to those patients and then manage those patients in the community without needing an emergency department attendance. that is— emergency department attendance. that is very much part of what we want _ that is very much part of what we want to _ that is very much part of what we want to continue to do because if you look— want to continue to do because if you took at— want to continue to do because if you look at the figures year—on—year, really, really successfui _ year—on—year, really, really successful in doing that. what we wanted _ successful in doing that. what we wanted to— successful in doing that. what we wanted to do was to work our partners _ wanted to do was to work our partners across the whole system as juiian _ partners across the whole system as jutian said _ partners across the whole system as julian said and continue as much of that as _ julian said and continue as much of that as as— julian said and continue as much of that as as we can as long as it is safe _ that as as we can as long as it is safe for— that as as we can as long as it is safe for those individuals. that will be — safe for those individuals. that will be very much part of the emergency care strategy going forward. — emergency care strategy going forward. the other thing the association of ambulance chief executive has been working with nhs engtand _ executive has been working with nhs england on more recently is at in

the new— england on more recently is at in the new world post—covid, how do we write size _ the new world post—covid, how do we write size our ambulance service now in engtand _ write size our ambulance service now in england to make sure that they are capable of doing what we need to do, are capable of doing what we need to do. because — are capable of doing what we need to do, because we can see when i think back on— do, because we can see when i think back on 31— do, because we can see when i think back on 31 years ago when ijoined the ambulance sector or the ambulance service, we can see that we now— ambulance service, we can see that we now spend a lot more time on scene, _ we now spend a lot more time on scene, which is the right thing to do, because that is us trying to make _ do, because that is us trying to make sure _ do, because that is us trying to make sure those patients are managed more locally and in the community, but equally— more locally and in the community, but equally hospital hand over deiays — but equally hospital hand over delays because of the flow issue julian— delays because of the flow issue julian described have gone up. probably— julian described have gone up. probably six or seven fold since it was when — probably six or seven fold since it was when i — probably six or seven fold since it was when i worked on the road. that is obviously — was when i worked on the road. that is obviously eating into our availability to be able to respond to patients in the community. the piece _ to patients in the community. the piece of— to patients in the community. the piece of work and working with nhs engtand _ piece of work and working with nhs england on now command the point you are asking, _ england on now command the point you are asking, how can we look at this and what _ are asking, how can we look at this and what model do we need going forward _ and what model do we need going forward and right size ambulance trusts— forward and right size ambulance trusts for— forward and right size ambulance trusts for the future to meet the needs— trusts for the future to meet the needs of— trusts for the future to meet the needs of a — trusts for the future to meet the needs of a post—covid world? canl needs of a post-covid world? can i ask when we _ needs of a post-covid world? can i ask when we can _ needs of a post-covid world? can i ask when we can expect _ needs of a post-covid world? can i ask when we can expect to - needs of a post—covid world? can i ask when we can expect to see the new strategy? clearly the crisis is

now, and are there international examples of really good practice which we need to aspire to? hhs which we need to aspire to? nhs encland which we need to aspire to? nhs england would — which we need to aspire to? nhs england would be _ which we need to aspire to? nhs england would be best placed, julian would _ england would be best placed, julian would be _ england would be best placed, julian would be best placed to talk about when _ would be best placed to talk about when that strategy will be finalised and launched because that is nhs england's strategy. in terms of best practice _ england's strategy. in terms of best practice internationally, believe it or not— practice internationally, believe it or not we — practice internationally, believe it or not we still have a lot of best practice — or not we still have a lot of best practice internationally. i sit on the australasia, australia and new zealand _ the australasia, australia and new zealand meetings, on the federal meetings — zealand meetings, on the federal meetings in the usa, and i sit in the paramedic's of canada chief meetings — the paramedic's of canada chief meetings as well and a lot of those countries _ meetings as well and a lot of those countries still look at the uk for best practice, particularly around the ear— best practice, particularly around the ear and treat at to treat. the bil the ear and treat at to treat. the big challenge we have in the uk which _ big challenge we have in the uk which other international countries have as _ which other international countries have as well to be fair, is the flow. — have as well to be fair, is the flow. the _ have as well to be fair, is the flow, the hospital handover delays and the _ flow, the hospital handover delays and the vicious cycle of not being able to _ and the vicious cycle of not being able to respond to those patients in the community. you just have to look at the _ the community. you just have to look at the newspapers over the weekend and you _ at the newspapers over the weekend and you will see it in australasia,

certain— and you will see it in australasia, certain parts of the us, canada. they— certain parts of the us, canada. they have — certain parts of the us, canada. they have all got the challenge around — they have all got the challenge around flow. patients are much sicker— around flow. patients are much sicker than— around flow. patients are much sicker than they were before and it's the _ sicker than they were before and it's the perfect storm post—covid we are experiencing now. it's the perfect storm post-covid we are experiencing now.— are experiencing now. thank you. julian, are experiencing now. thank you. julian. when _ are experiencing now. thank you. julian, when are _ are experiencing now. thank you. julian, when are we _ are experiencing now. thank you. julian, when are we going - are experiencing now. thank you. julian, when are we going to - are experiencing now. thank you. julian, when are we going to see| are experiencing now. thank you. i julian, when are we going to see the strategy? the julian, when are we going to see the strate: ? , . , julian, when are we going to see the strate: ? , ., , , strategy? the strategy is in writinu , strategy? the strategy is in writing. and _ strategy? the strategy is in writing, and the _ strategy? the strategy is in writing, and the importantl strategy? the strategy is in - writing, and the important thing about— writing, and the important thing about the — writing, and the important thing about the strategies we have been given— about the strategies we have been given engaging with people all across— given engaging with people all across the service, write down to the nurses— across the service, write down to the nurses at the shop front to make sure they— the nurses at the shop front to make sure they understand and get a talk a chance _ sure they understand and get a talk a chance to — sure they understand and get a talk a chance to talk about the strategy and that _ a chance to talk about the strategy and that is — a chance to talk about the strategy and that is true for the amazon services — and that is true for the amazon services well to make sure we have the right _ services well to make sure we have the right strategy going forward. that is— the right strategy going forward. that is also going to be linked to the recovery plan which we are hoping — the recovery plan which we are hoping to— the recovery plan which we are hoping to get out injanuary the recovery plan which we are hoping to get out in january to the recovery plan which we are hoping to get out injanuary to make sure everyone understands how we can recover _ sure everyone understands how we can recover that~ _ sure everyone understands how we can recoverthat. daren sure everyone understands how we can recover that. daren is correct talking — recover that. daren is correct talking about international comparisons because the strategy has also looked internationally to see what is _ also looked internationally to see what is best practice internationally and i've been talking — internationally and i've been talking to a number of partners in different— talking to a number of partners in different countries as well because

ithink— different countries as well because i think we — different countries as well because i think we do need to look around at all the _ i think we do need to look around at all the different potential innovations and changes that we need to make _ innovations and changes that we need to make over the next 5—10 years because — to make over the next 5—10 years because the strategy needs to look at that— because the strategy needs to look at that sort of timeframe. the recovery— at that sort of timeframe. the recovery plan will be looking at that and — recovery plan will be looking at that and how we go through those. there _ that and how we go through those. there is— that and how we go through those. there is a — that and how we go through those. there is a lot we are learning from our international partners. it is an international phenomenon, i am an a&e consultant and a talk to colleagues in other countries and they are — colleagues in other countries and they are all struggling on this overcrowding in emergency departments especially, but that flow issue i talked about earlier. when _ flow issue i talked about earlier. when are — flow issue i talked about earlier. when are we going to see it? | when are we going to see it? i haven't got a date but a busy week and try— haven't got a date but a busy week and try and — haven't got a date but a busy week and try and get one back. it is being — and try and get one back. it is being written about the moment so we are working _ being written about the moment so we are working to get that. earl}r being written about the moment so we are working to get that.— are working to get that. early next ear do are working to get that. early next year do we — are working to get that. early next year do we think? _ are working to get that. early next year do we think? yes, _ are working to get that. early next year do we think? yes, definitely. | year do we think? yes, definitely. and if i year do we think? yes, definitely. and if i make _ year do we think? yes, definitely. and if i make a _ year do we think? yes, definitely. and if i make a rachel— year do we think? yes, definitely. and if i make a rachel harrison, l and if i make a rachel harrison, what is the impact on your members command the staff on the front line and taking the calls of these delays? and taking the calls of these dela s? ,., ., ., and taking the calls of these dela s? ., delays? good morning, everybody. it is absolutely — delays? good morning, everybody. it is absolutely having _ delays? good morning, everybody. it is absolutely having a _ delays? good morning, everybody. it is absolutely having a devastating -

is absolutely having a devastating impact _ is absolutely having a devastating impact on — is absolutely having a devastating impact on our— is absolutely having a devastating impact on our members. - is absolutely having a devastating - impact on our members. frustration, stress, _ impact on our members. frustration, stress, burn-out, _ impact on our members. frustration, stress, burn—out, exhaustion, - impact on our members. frustration, stress, burn—out, exhaustion, low. stress, burn—out, exhaustion, low morale, _ stress, burn—out, exhaustion, low morale, mental— stress, burn—out, exhaustion, low morale, mental health. _ stress, burn—out, exhaustion, low morale, mental health. our- stress, burn—out, exhaustion, low- morale, mental health. our members are tired _ morale, mental health. 0ur members are tired of— morale, mental health. our members are tired of going _ morale, mental health. our members are tired of going to _ morale, mental health. our members are tired of going to work _ morale, mental health. our members are tired of going to work every - are tired of going to work every day, _ are tired of going to work every day, and — are tired of going to work every day, and in _ are tired of going to work every day, and in some _ are tired of going to work every day, and in some cases - are tired of going to work every i day, and in some cases spending are tired of going to work every - day, and in some cases spending the whole _ day, and in some cases spending the whole of— day, and in some cases spending the whole of their— day, and in some cases spending the whole of their shift _ day, and in some cases spending the whole of their shift sat _ day, and in some cases spending the whole of their shift sat on _ day, and in some cases spending the whole of their shift sat on an - whole of their shift sat on an ambulance _ whole of their shift sat on an ambulance outside - whole of their shift sat on an ambulance outside an- whole of their shift sat on an ambulance outside an a&e l whole of their shift sat on an _ ambulance outside an a&e department with the _ ambulance outside an a&e department with the same — ambulance outside an a&e department with the same patient. _ ambulance outside an a&e department with the same patient. we _ ambulance outside an a&e department with the same patient. we have - ambulance outside an a&e department with the same patient. we have had i with the same patient. we have had examples _ with the same patient. we have had examples where _ with the same patient. we have had examples where our— with the same patient. we have had examples where our members - with the same patient. we have had examples where our members havej examples where our members have clocked _ examples where our members have clocked off — examples where our members have clocked off at — examples where our members have clocked off at the _ examples where our members have clocked off at the end _ examples where our members have clocked off at the end of— examples where our members have clocked off at the end of one - clocked off at the end of one shifted — clocked off at the end of one shifted to _ clocked off at the end of one shifted to return _ clocked off at the end of one shifted to return the - clocked off at the end of one i shifted to return the following clocked off at the end of one - shifted to return the following day to the _ shifted to return the following day to the same — shifted to return the following day to the same patient _ shifted to return the following day to the same patient being - shifted to return the following day to the same patient being on - shifted to return the following day to the same patient being on that| to the same patient being on that ambulance — to the same patient being on that ambulance with— to the same patient being on that ambulance with the _ to the same patient being on that ambulance with the crew- to the same patient being on that ambulance with the crew they - to the same patient being on that| ambulance with the crew they had left the _ ambulance with the crew they had left the night _ ambulance with the crew they had left the night before. _ ambulance with the crew they had left the night before. our- ambulance with the crew they had i left the night before. our members went into _ left the night before. 0ur members went into this— left the night before. our members went into this profession _ left the night before. our members went into this profession to - left the night before. 0ur membersj went into this profession to become health— went into this profession to become health care professionals, - went into this profession to become health care professionals, to- went into this profession to become health care professionals, to help . health care professionals, to help the public, — health care professionals, to help the public, and _ health care professionals, to help the public, and provide _ health care professionals, to help the public, and provide patient i the public, and provide patient safety — the public, and provide patient safety. they _ the public, and provide patient safety. they feel— the public, and provide patient safety. they feel they - the public, and provide patient safety. they feel they are - the public, and provide patientl safety. they feel they are being physically — safety. they feel they are being physically prevented _ safety. they feel they are being physically prevented from - safety. they feel they are being j physically prevented from being safety. they feel they are being - physically prevented from being able to carry _ physically prevented from being able to carry out — physically prevented from being able to carry out their— physically prevented from being able to carry out theirjobs _ physically prevented from being able to carry out theirjobs today. - physically prevented from being able to carry out theirjobs today. that. to carry out theirjobs today. that is because — to carry out theirjobs today. that is because of— to carry out theirjobs today. that is because of this _ to carry out theirjobs today. that is because of this knock—on- is because of this knock—on impact with handover— is because of this knock—on impact with handover delays— is because of this knock—on impact with handover delays and - is because of this knock—on impact with handover delays and waiting i with handover delays and waiting times— with handover delays and waiting times and — with handover delays and waiting times and the _ with handover delays and waiting times and the fact _ with handover delays and waiting times and the fact that _ with handover delays and waiting times and the fact that patients i times and the fact that patients can't _ times and the fact that patients can't be — times and the fact that patients can't be safely— times and the fact that patients can't be safely discharged - times and the fact that patients can't be safely discharged into. can't be safely discharged into hospitals _ can't be safely discharged into hospitals. and _ can't be safely discharged into hospitals. and when _ can't be safely discharged into hospitals. and when they- can't be safely discharged into - hospitals. and when they eventually -et hospitals. and when they eventually get to _ hospitals. and when they eventually get to a _ hospitals. and when they eventually get to a job — hospitals. and when they eventually get to a job that— hospitals. and when they eventually get to a job that they _

hospitals. and when they eventually get to a job that they can _ hospitals. and when they eventually get to a job that they can see - hospitals. and when they eventually get to a job that they can see on - get to a job that they can see on the monitor— get to a job that they can see on the monitor somebody- get to a job that they can see on the monitor somebody has - get to a job that they can see on the monitor somebody has beenj the monitor somebody has been waiting — the monitor somebody has been waiting hours— the monitor somebody has been waiting hours and _ the monitor somebody has been waiting hours and hours, - the monitor somebody has been waiting hours and hours, they. the monitor somebody has been. waiting hours and hours, they don't know— waiting hours and hours, they don't know what — waiting hours and hours, they don't know what situation _ waiting hours and hours, they don't know what situation they _ waiting hours and hours, they don't know what situation they are - waiting hours and hours, they don't. know what situation they are walking into, they _ know what situation they are walking into, they don't _ know what situation they are walking into, they don't know— know what situation they are walking into, they don't know if— know what situation they are walking into, they don't know if that - into, they don't know if that individual— into, they don't know if that individual will— into, they don't know if that individual will still _ into, they don't know if that individual will still be - into, they don't know if that individual will still be alive. | into, they don't know if that - individual will still be alive. they have _ individual will still be alive. they have friends _ individual will still be alive. they have friends and _ individual will still be alive. they have friends and families - individual will still be alive. they have friends and families that i individual will still be alive. theyl have friends and families that are screaming — have friends and families that are screaming at _ have friends and families that are screaming at them _ have friends and families that are screaming at them as _ have friends and families that are screaming at them as if— have friends and families that are screaming at them as if it- have friends and families that are screaming at them as if it is- have friends and families that are screaming at them as if it is theirj screaming at them as if it is their fault _ screaming at them as if it is their fault these _ screaming at them as if it is their fault. these are _ screaming at them as if it is their fault. these are the _ screaming at them as if it is their fault. these are the very- fault. these are the very individuals— fault. these are the very individuals that - fault. these are the very individuals that are - fault. these are the very individuals that are not i fault. these are the veryl individuals that are not to fault. these are the very- individuals that are not to blame for the _ individuals that are not to blame for the situation. _ individuals that are not to blame for the situation. so— individuals that are not to blame for the situation. so our- individuals that are not to blame i for the situation. so our members have _ for the situation. so our members have taken— for the situation. so our members have taken the _ for the situation. so our members have taken the steps _ for the situation. so our members have taken the steps they - for the situation. so our members have taken the steps they have i for the situation. so our members. have taken the steps they have taken to vote _ have taken the steps they have taken to vote for _ have taken the steps they have taken to vote for action, _ have taken the steps they have taken to vote for action, and _ have taken the steps they have taken to vote for action, and this _ have taken the steps they have taken to vote for action, and this is - have taken the steps they have taken to vote for action, and this is one - to vote for action, and this is one of the _ to vote for action, and this is one of the central— to vote for action, and this is one of the central parts _ to vote for action, and this is one of the central parts as _ to vote for action, and this is one of the central parts as to - to vote for action, and this is one of the central parts as to why. i to vote for action, and this is one . of the central parts as to why. they are doing _ of the central parts as to why. they are doing this— of the central parts as to why. they are doing this because _ of the central parts as to why. they are doing this because we - of the central parts as to why. they are doing this because we have - of the central parts as to why. they. are doing this because we have been raising _ are doing this because we have been raising these — are doing this because we have been raising these issues _ are doing this because we have been raising these issues for— are doing this because we have been raising these issues for years - are doing this because we have been raising these issues for years and . raising these issues for years and we have — raising these issues for years and we have been— raising these issues for years and we have been ignored. _ raising these issues for years and we have been ignored. as - raising these issues for years and we have been ignored. as early. raising these issues for years and i we have been ignored. as early as last year— we have been ignored. as early as last year we — we have been ignored. as early as last year we wrote _ we have been ignored. as early as last year we wrote to _ we have been ignored. as early as last year we wrote to this - we have been ignored. as early as. last year we wrote to this committee and we _ last year we wrote to this committee and we had _ last year we wrote to this committee and we had a — last year we wrote to this committee and we had a very— last year we wrote to this committee and we had a very supportive - and we had a very supportive response _ and we had a very supportive response but _ and we had a very supportive response. but we _ and we had a very supportive response. but we wrote - and we had a very supportive response. but we wrote with| and we had a very supportive. response. but we wrote with a and we had a very supportive - response. but we wrote with a copy of a letter _ response. but we wrote with a copy of a letter we — response. but we wrote with a copy of a letter we sent _ response. but we wrote with a copy of a letter we sent to _ response. but we wrote with a copy of a letter we sent to the _ of a letter we sent to the government— of a letter we sent to the government highlightingl of a letter we sent to the i government highlighting we of a letter we sent to the - government highlighting we have of a letter we sent to the _ government highlighting we have come out of the _ government highlighting we have come out of the pandemic, _ government highlighting we have come out of the pandemic, we _ government highlighting we have come out of the pandemic, we are _ government highlighting we have come out of the pandemic, we are heading. out of the pandemic, we are heading into the _ out of the pandemic, we are heading into the worst — out of the pandemic, we are heading into the worst winter _ out of the pandemic, we are heading into the worst winter pressures - out of the pandemic, we are heading into the worst winter pressures are l into the worst winter pressures are members _ into the worst winter pressures are members are — into the worst winter pressures are members are reporting _ into the worst winter pressures are members are reporting to - into the worst winter pressures are members are reporting to us - into the worst winter pressures are members are reporting to us and l into the worst winter pressures are members are reporting to us and it fell on _ members are reporting to us and it fell on deaf— members are reporting to us and it fell on deaf ears. _ members are reporting to us and it fell on deaf ears. nothing - members are reporting to us and it fell on deaf ears. nothing was - members are reporting to us and it. fell on deaf ears. nothing was done. those _ fell on deaf ears. nothing was done. those issues — fell on deaf ears. nothing was done. those issues are _ fell on deaf ears. nothing was done. those issues are even _ fell on deaf ears. nothing was done. those issues are even worse - fell on deaf ears. nothing was done. those issues are even worse now. i fell on deaf ears. nothing was done. | those issues are even worse now. so our members — those issues are even worse now. so our members are— those issues are even worse now. so our members are exhausted. - those issues are even worse now. so our members are exhausted. there l those issues are even worse now. so| our members are exhausted. there is the highest _ our members are exhausted. there is the highest sickness _ our members are exhausted. there is the highest sickness levels _ our members are exhausted. there is the highest sickness levels amongst i the highest sickness levels amongst

all category — the highest sickness levels amongst all category of — the highest sickness levels amongst all category of workers _ the highest sickness levels amongst all category of workers in _ the highest sickness levels amongst all category of workers in the - the highest sickness levels amongst all category of workers in the nhs . all category of workers in the nhs in the _ all category of workers in the nhs in the ambulance _ all category of workers in the nhs in the ambulance service. - all category of workers in the nhs in the ambulance service. that i all category of workers in the nhs in the ambulance service. that is| in the ambulance service. that is because — in the ambulance service. that is because of— in the ambulance service. that is because of the _ in the ambulance service. that is because of the terrible _ in the ambulance service. that is because of the terrible conditions they are — because of the terrible conditions theyare being— because of the terrible conditions they are being expected - because of the terrible conditions they are being expected to - because of the terrible conditions they are being expected to work. because of the terrible conditions . they are being expected to work in. this isrfl— they are being expected to work in. this ish'tiust — they are being expected to work in. this ish'tiust a _ they are being expected to work in. this isn't just a front _ they are being expected to work in. this isn't just a front line _ this isn't just a front line paramedics, _ this isn't just a front line j paramedics, technicians, this isn't just a front line _ paramedics, technicians, emergency care assistance _ paramedics, technicians, emergency care assistance. this _ paramedics, technicians, emergency care assistance. this is— paramedics, technicians, emergency care assistance. this is the - paramedics, technicians, emergency care assistance. this is the call- care assistance. this is the call centre — care assistance. this is the call centre pe0pte _ care assistance. this is the call centre people that _ care assistance. this is the call centre people that are - care assistance. this is the call centre people that are having i care assistance. this is the calli centre people that are having to deal with— centre people that are having to deal with this _ centre people that are having to deal with this influx _ centre people that are having to deal with this influx of - centre people that are having to deal with this influx of calls - centre people that are having to deal with this influx of calls and| deal with this influx of calls and screaming — deal with this influx of calls and screaming families _ deal with this influx of calls and screaming families and - deal with this influx of calls and screaming families and friendsi deal with this influx of calls and - screaming families and friends that are frustrated. _ screaming families and friends that are frustrated. and _ screaming families and friends that are frustrated. and the _ screaming families and friends that are frustrated. and the massive - are frustrated. and the massive increase — are frustrated. and the massive increase in— are frustrated. and the massive increase in mental— are frustrated. and the massive increase in mental health - are frustrated. and the massive . increase in mental health because they are _ increase in mental health because they are having _ increase in mental health because they are having to _ increase in mental health because they are having to deal _ increase in mental health because they are having to deal with - increase in mental health because . they are having to deal with because there _ they are having to deal with because there are _ they are having to deal with because there are no, — they are having to deal with because there are no, or— they are having to deal with because there are no, or significantly- there are no, or significantly reduced _ there are no, or significantly reduced access _ there are no, or significantly reduced access to _ there are no, or significantlyl reduced access to community there are no, or significantly- reduced access to community and mentai— reduced access to community and mental health _ reduced access to community and mental health services. _ reduced access to community and mental health services. the - reduced access to community and | mental health services. the whole impact _ mental health services. the whole impact across _ mental health services. the whole impact across the _ mental health services. the whole impact across the workforce - mental health services. the whole impact across the workforce is - mental health services. the whole impact across the workforce is noi impact across the workforce is no longer— impact across the workforce is no longer safe — impact across the workforce is no tonger safe in— impact across the workforce is no longer safe in our— impact across the workforce is no longer safe in our members- impact across the workforce is no longer safe in our members are l longer safe in our members are pleading — longer safe in our members are pleading on _ longer safe in our members are pleading on the _ longer safe in our members are pleading on the government - longer safe in our members are pleading on the government to| longer safe in our members are . pleading on the government to do something — pleading on the government to do something about _ pleading on the government to do something about this _ pleading on the government to do something about this now. - pleading on the government to do something about this now. [- pleading on the government to do something about this now.- something about this now. i think the nhs workforce _ something about this now. i think the nhs workforce survey - something about this now. i think the nhs workforce survey has - the nhs workforce survey has demonstrated in every single category that ambulance staff have the lowest morale and obviously the greatest pressures being placed on them. . ~ greatest pressures being placed on them. . ,, i. greatest pressures being placed on them. . ~' ,, , greatest pressures being placed on them. . ,, i. , . them. thank you very much, rachel. i 'ust them. thank you very much, rachel. i just wanted — them. thank you very much, rachel. i just wanted to — them. thank you very much, rachel. i just wanted to follow _ them. thank you very much, rachel. i just wanted to follow up _ them. thank you very much, rachel. i just wanted to follow up on _ them. thank you very much, rachel. i just wanted to follow up on what - them. thank you very much, rachel. i just wanted to follow up on what you i just wanted to follow up on what you have treen— just wanted to follow up on what you have been saying. as local mps we will work _ have been saying. as local mps we will work closely with chief executives of the ambulance service

tocatty. _ executives of the ambulance service locally. i _ executives of the ambulance service locally, i am a west midlands mp. i have heard — locally, i am a west midlands mp. i have heard since the start of this year— have heard since the start of this year exactly what you have been saying — year exactly what you have been saying i— year exactly what you have been saying. i have been passing that on to government via ministers. west midlands _ to government via ministers. west midlands ambulance service experienced 44,000 lost hours in one month— experienced 44,000 lost hours in one month waiting outside hospitals, and what has _ month waiting outside hospitals, and what has really frustrated me is that, _ what has really frustrated me is that, like — what has really frustrated me is that, like you say, no one has been listening _ that, like you say, no one has been listening. you have explained how you have — listening. you have explained how you have tried to get the voices of your members heard. ijust wonder, professor— your members heard. ijust wonder, professorjulian redhead, are you hearing _ professorjulian redhead, are you hearing that message, do you understand what rachel and i are saying _ understand what rachel and i are saying about what is happening on the front— saying about what is happening on the front line? | saying about what is happening on the front line?— the front line? i absolutely do. in m own the front line? i absolutely do. in my own a&e _ the front line? i absolutely do. in my own a&e department - the front line? i absolutely do. in my own a&e department when i l the front line? i absolutely do. in i my own a&e department when i talk the front line? i absolutely do. in - my own a&e department when i talk to paramedics— my own a&e department when i talk to paramedics i_ my own a&e department when i talk to paramedics i can — my own a&e department when i talk to paramedics i can see _ my own a&e department when i talk to paramedics i can see exactly— my own a&e department when i talk to paramedics i can see exactly those - paramedics i can see exactly those effects _ paramedics i can see exactly those effects on— paramedics i can see exactly those effects on them _ paramedics i can see exactly those effects on them as _ paramedics i can see exactly those effects on them as well. _ paramedics i can see exactly those effects on them as well. i- paramedics i can see exactly those effects on them as well. i talk- paramedics i can see exactly those effects on them as well. i talk to l effects on them as well. i talk to the medicat— effects on them as well. i talk to the medical directors _ effects on them as well. i talk to the medical directors of- effects on them as well. i talk to the medical directors of each - the medical directors of each ambulance _ the medical directors of each ambulance service, - the medical directors of each ambulance service, so - the medical directors of each - ambulance service, so absolutely i understand — ambulance service, so absolutely i understand that. _ ambulance service, so absolutely i understand that. it _ ambulance service, so absolutely i understand that. it is— ambulance service, so absolutely i understand that. it is how- ambulance service, so absolutely i understand that. it is how we - ambulance service, so absolutely i | understand that. it is how we make sure that _ understand that. it is how we make sure that we — understand that. it is how we make sure that we get _ understand that. it is how we make sure that we get the _ understand that. it is how we make sure that we get the right - sure that we get the right investments _ sure that we get the right investments and - sure that we get the right investments and the - sure that we get the rightj investments and the right sure that we get the right - investments and the right areas to

improve _ investments and the right areas to improve in— investments and the right areas to improve in the— investments and the right areas to improve in the right _ investments and the right areas to improve in the right time - investments and the right areas to improve in the right time frames. i improve in the right time frames. that's— improve in the right time frames. that's what— improve in the right time frames. that's what we _ improve in the right time frames. that's what we are _ improve in the right time frames. that's what we are trying - improve in the right time frames. that's what we are trying to - improve in the right time frames. that's what we are trying to do. l improve in the right time frames. . that's what we are trying to do. the chief that's what we are trying to do. chief executive of the west that's what we are trying to do.- chief executive of the west midlands ambulance service said at the start of the _ ambulance service said at the start of the year— ambulance service said at the start of the year that by august, september west midlands ambulance service _ september west midlands ambulance service would start to fail. ijust wondered, _ service would start to fail. ijust wondered, what then happened when you get— wondered, what then happened when you get a _ wondered, what then happened when you get a message like that? what action— you get a message like that? what action is— you get a message like that? what action is taken that would prevent us from _ action is taken that would prevent us from being where we are now with members _ us from being where we are now with members quite understandably saying no one _ members quite understandably saying no one is— members quite understandably saying no one is listening and we have to take strike — no one is listening and we have to take strike action? | no one is listening and we have to take strike action?— take strike action? i work very closely with — take strike action? i work very closely with anthony - take strike action? i work very closely with anthony because | take strike action? i work very i closely with anthony because of take strike action? i work very - closely with anthony because of his role nationally— closely with anthony because of his role nationally as _ closely with anthony because of his role nationally as well. _ closely with anthony because of his role nationally as well. action - closely with anthony because of his role nationally as well. action has i role nationally as well. action has been _ role nationally as well. action has been taken — role nationally as well. action has been taken we— role nationally as well. action has been taken. we have _ role nationally as well. action has been taken. we have tried - role nationally as well. action has been taken. we have tried to - been taken. we have tried to increase _ been taken. we have tried to increase the _ been taken. we have tried to increase the number- been taken. we have tried to increase the number of- been taken. we have tried to increase the number of call. increase the number of call handlers. _ increase the number of call handlers, because - increase the number of call handlers, because some i increase the number of call handlers, because some ofj increase the number of call. handlers, because some of it originally— handlers, because some of it originally was _ handlers, because some of it originally was around - handlers, because some of it originally was around call - handlers, because some of it - originally was around call handling and making — originally was around call handling and making sure _ originally was around call handling and making sure we _ originally was around call handling and making sure we can— originally was around call handling and making sure we can answer. originally was around call handling i and making sure we can answer the telephone _ and making sure we can answer the telephone call _ and making sure we can answer the telephone call. so _ and making sure we can answer the telephone call. so we _ and making sure we can answer the telephone call. so we have - and making sure we can answer the. telephone call. so we have increased the number— telephone call. so we have increased the number of— telephone call. so we have increased the number of call— telephone call. so we have increased the number of call handlers - telephone call. so we have increased the number of call handlers by- telephone call. so we have increased the number of call handlers by over. the number of call handlers by over 300 from _ the number of call handlers by over 300 from what _ the number of call handlers by over 300 from what they— the number of call handlers by over 300 from what they were _ the number of call handlers by over 300 from what they were a - the number of call handlers by over 300 from what they were a year - the number of call handlers by over. 300 from what they were a year ago. 111, 300 from what they were a year ago. ill, because — 300 from what they were a year ago. 111, because there _ 300 from what they were a year ago. 111, because there is— 300 from what they were a year ago. 111, because there is a _ 300 from what they were a year ago. 111, because there is a link— 300 from what they were a year ago. 111, because there is a link here - 111, because there is a link here between — 111, because there is a link here between 111 _ 111, because there is a link here between 111 ad _ 111, because there is a link here between 111 ad 999 _ 111, because there is a link here between 111 ad 999 calls - 111, because there is a link here between 111 ad 999 calls so - 111, because there is a link here between 111 ad 999 calls so wei 111, because there is a link here - between 111 ad 999 calls so we have to increase — between 111 ad 999 calls so we have to increase the _ between 111 ad 999 calls so we have to increase the number— between 111 ad 999 calls so we have to increase the number of— between 111 ad 999 calls so we have to increase the number of call- to increase the number of call handler— to increase the number of call handler so _ to increase the number of call handler so that— to increase the number of call handler so that patients - to increase the number of call handler so that patients can . to increase the number of call. handler so that patients can get to increase the number of call- handler so that patients can get the advice _ handler so that patients can get the advice they— handler so that patients can get the advice they need _ handler so that patients can get the advice they need through _ handler so that patients can get the advice they need through 111, - handler so that patients can get the

advice they need through 111, those| advice they need through 111, those have been— advice they need through 111, those have been increased _ advice they need through 111, those have been increased as _ advice they need through 111, those have been increased as well, - advice they need through 111, those have been increased as well, by. advice they need through 111, those| have been increased as well, by 5%. trying _ have been increased as well, by 5%. trying to— have been increased as well, by 5%. trying to keep — have been increased as well, by 5%. trying to keep up— have been increased as well, by 5%. trying to keep up with _ have been increased as well, by 5%. trying to keep up with the _ have been increased as well, by 5%. trying to keep up with the level - have been increased as well, by 5%. trying to keep up with the level of l trying to keep up with the level of demand _ trying to keep up with the level of demand around _ trying to keep up with the level of demand around call— trying to keep up with the level of demand around call handling - trying to keep up with the level of demand around call handling as. trying to keep up with the level of. demand around call handling as well. we have _ demand around call handling as well. we have also— demand around call handling as well. we have also put— demand around call handling as well. we have also put in— demand around call handling as well. we have also put in more _ demand around call handling as well. we have also put in more focus- demand around call handling as well. we have also put in more focus in- we have also put in more focus in terms _ we have also put in more focus in terms of— we have also put in more focus in terms of those _ we have also put in more focus in terms of those handover - we have also put in more focus in terms of those handover delays . terms of those handover delays because — terms of those handover delays because that's _ terms of those handover delays because that's really _ terms of those handover delays because that's really what - terms of those handover delays because that's really what is . terms of those handover delays - because that's really what is having the issues — because that's really what is having the issues for — because that's really what is having the issues for both _ because that's really what is having the issues for both the _ because that's really what is having the issues for both the ambulance. the issues for both the ambulance crews— the issues for both the ambulance crews themselves, _ the issues for both the ambulance crews themselves, because - the issues for both the ambulance crews themselves, because they i the issues for both the ambulance - crews themselves, because they don't want to— crews themselves, because they don't want to be _ crews themselves, because they don't want to be outside _ crews themselves, because they don't want to be outside the _ crews themselves, because they don't want to be outside the ambulance. - want to be outside the ambulance. they want— want to be outside the ambulance. they want to — want to be outside the ambulance. they want to be _ want to be outside the ambulance. they want to be able _ want to be outside the ambulance. they want to be able to _ want to be outside the ambulance. they want to be able to help - want to be outside the ambulance. l they want to be able to help people. so we _ they want to be able to help people. so we have _ they want to be able to help people. so we have been _ they want to be able to help people. so we have been working _ they want to be able to help people. so we have been working with - so we have been working with individual— so we have been working with individual trusts. _ so we have been working with individual trusts. they- so we have been working with individual trusts. they have i so we have been working with l individual trusts. they have real issues _ individual trusts. they have real issues with— individual trusts. they have real issues with this. _ individual trusts. they have real issues with this. is _ individual trusts. they have real issues with this.— issues with this. is this trust is secific issues with this. is this trust is specific because _ issues with this. is this trust is specific because if _ issues with this. is this trust is specific because if i _ issues with this. is this trust is specific because if i look- issues with this. is this trust is specific because if i look at - issues with this. is this trust is. specific because if i look at data for the whole of the west midlands i can see that telford and wrekin, which is where i am from, has the worst waiting times. is it because the hospitals in the region are less good at discharging patients than other hospitals? or is it something more complex? it is other hospitals? or is it something more complex?— other hospitals? or is it something more complex? it is always going to be more multifactorial_ more complex? it is always going to be more multifactorial but _ more complex? it is always going to be more multifactorial but there - more complex? it is always going to be more multifactorial but there are| be more multifactorial but there are hospitals _ be more multifactorial but there are hospitals are more challenged than other— hospitals are more challenged than other and _ hospitals are more challenged than other and those are the ones we are targeting _ other and those are the ones we are targeting to — other and those are the ones we are targeting to try and get those improvements. we have also worked

with all— improvements. we have also worked with all trusts across the country to try _ with all trusts across the country to try and — with all trusts across the country to try and improve the handover situation — to try and improve the handover situation. we launched a winter collaborative where we are working with each _ collaborative where we are working with each trust around eight different factors that we believe would _ different factors that we believe would help to try and improve the service _ would help to try and improve the service as — would help to try and improve the service as much as we can. although again— service as much as we can. although again i_ service as much as we can. although again i will— service as much as we can. although again i will go back to discharge being _ again i will go back to discharge being the — again i will go back to discharge being the number one that we need to do. being the number one that we need to do now— being the number one that we need to do. now obviously we have the discharge — do. now obviously we have the discharge task force led by sarah jane marsh and also a new board setup _ jane marsh and also a new board setup within the nhs to look at this work around the discharges. the discharge — work around the discharges. the discharge task force has had some success— discharge task force has had some success working with parts of the discharge — success working with parts of the discharge process they have most control— discharge process they have most control over and we have seen improvements in the numbers of patients— improvements in the numbers of patients from that clinical reason to resign — patients from that clinical reason to resign where we can see some improvements in those and we now have a _ improvements in those and we now have a specific challenge outwith community trusts and also local authorities to and help that position. also the government have released _ position. also the government have released more money into the local authorities— released more money into the local authorities to try and help with those — authorities to try and help with those discharges as well. so there is work— those discharges as well. so there is work ongoing to improve all the time _

is work ongoing to improve all the time to— is work ongoing to improve all the time to improve their situations. john— time to improve their situations. john martin, what would you like to see happen around these delayed discharges and the other factors preventing ambulance paramedics from doing their work? talking to our members, hospital handovers is right at the top of the list of their issues. if at the top of the list of their issues. , ., ., ., ~' at the top of the list of their issues. , ., ., ., 4' ., at the top of the list of their issues. , ., ., ., ~ . , . ., issues. if you look at the situation re ort issues. if you look at the situation report most _ issues. if you look at the situation report most recently _ issues. if you look at the situation report most recently published . issues. if you look at the situation report most recently published by| report most recently published by nhs england _ report most recently published by nhs england on— report most recently published by nhs england on the _ report most recently published by nhs england on the 11th - report most recently published by nhs england on the 11th of- report most recently published by- nhs england on the 11th of december there was— nhs england on the 11th of december there was 4232 — nhs england on the 11th of december there was 4232 hours _ nhs england on the 11th of december there was 4232 hours lost _ nhs england on the 11th of december there was 4232 hours lost in - nhs england on the 11th of december there was 4232 hours lost in one - nhs england on the 11th of december there was 4232 hours lost in one day| there was 4232 hours lost in one day outside _ there was 4232 hours lost in one day outside hospital. _ there was 4232 hours lost in one day outside hospital. that— there was 4232 hours lost in one day outside hospital. that equates - there was 4232 hours lost in one day outside hospital. that equates to - outside hospital. that equates to 176 ambulances. _ outside hospital. that equates to 176 ambulances. that _ outside hospital. that equates to 176 ambulances. that is - outside hospital. that equates to 176 ambulances. that is our- outside hospital. that equates to - 176 ambulances. that is our members who are _ 176 ambulances. that is our members who are really — 176 ambulances. that is our members who are really struggling _ 176 ambulances. that is our members who are really struggling because, . who are really struggling because, as rachel— who are really struggling because, as rachel says. _ who are really struggling because, as rachel says, they— who are really struggling because, as rachel says, they can _ who are really struggling because, as rachel says, they can spend - who are really struggling because, j as rachel says, they can spend the whole _ as rachel says, they can spend the whole of— as rachel says, they can spend the whole of their— as rachel says, they can spend the whole of their shift _ as rachel says, they can spend the whole of their shift outside - as rachel says, they can spend the whole of their shift outside a - whole of their shift outside a hospital— whole of their shift outside a hospital waiting _ whole of their shift outside a hospital waiting to— whole of their shift outside a hospital waiting to hand - whole of their shift outside aj hospital waiting to hand over whole of their shift outside a l hospital waiting to hand over a patient — hospital waiting to hand over a patient that _ hospital waiting to hand over a patient. that has _ hospital waiting to hand over a patient. that has a _ hospital waiting to hand over a patient. that has a huge - hospital waiting to hand over ai patient. that has a huge impact hospital waiting to hand over a - patient. that has a huge impact on paramedics— patient. that has a huge impact on paramedics who _ patient. that has a huge impact on paramedics who are _ patient. that has a huge impact on paramedics who are in _ patient. that has a huge impact on paramedics who are in the - patient. that has a huge impact on paramedics who are in the back - patient. that has a huge impact on paramedics who are in the back of| paramedics who are in the back of the ambulance, _ paramedics who are in the back of the ambulance, it— paramedics who are in the back of the ambulance, it has— paramedics who are in the back of the ambulance, it has a _ paramedics who are in the back of the ambulance, it has a huge - paramedics who are in the back of. the ambulance, it has a huge impact on the _ the ambulance, it has a huge impact on the family. — the ambulance, it has a huge impact on the family, and _ the ambulance, it has a huge impact on the family, and the _ the ambulance, it has a huge impact on the family, and the patient- on the family, and the patient themselves _ on the family, and the patient themselves. we _ on the family, and the patient themselves. we pride - on the family, and the patient. themselves. we pride ourselves, going _ themselves. we pride ourselves, going back— themselves. we pride ourselves, going back to— themselves. we pride ourselves, going back to international- going back to international comparisons— going back to international comparisons can _ going back to international comparisons can having. going back to international. comparisons can having great paramedic— comparisons can having great paramedic education - comparisons can having great paramedic education in - comparisons can having great paramedic education in this . comparisons can having great - paramedic education in this country. we are _ paramedic education in this country. we are considered _ paramedic education in this country. we are considered world _ paramedic education in this country. we are considered world leading - paramedic education in this country. we are considered world leading in. we are considered world leading in our degrees — we are considered world leading in our degrees how— we are considered world leading in our degrees how we _ we are considered world leading in our degrees how we create - our degrees how we create paramedics _ our degrees how we create paramedics it— our degrees how we create paramedics. it is _ our degrees how we create paramedics. it is really- our degrees how we create - paramedics. it is really frustrating you can't— paramedics. it is really frustrating you can't use _

paramedics. it is really frustrating you can't use those _ paramedics. it is really frustrating you can't use those skills - paramedics. it is really frustrating you can't use those skills on - you can't use those skills on patients— you can't use those skills on patients across _ you can't use those skills on patients across the - you can't use those skills on patients across the course l you can't use those skills on| patients across the course of you can't use those skills on - patients across the course of your shift because _ patients across the course of your shift because you _ patients across the course of your shift because you are _ patients across the course of your shift because you are with - patients across the course of your shift because you are with one - shift because you are with one patient — shift because you are with one patient waiting _ shift because you are with one patient waiting outside - shift because you are with one patient waiting outside of- shift because you are with one patient waiting outside of the i patient waiting outside of the hospital _ patient waiting outside of the hospital it _ patient waiting outside of the hospital. it is _ patient waiting outside of the hospital. it is also _ patient waiting outside of the hospital. it is also true - patient waiting outside of the hospital. it is also true that l patient waiting outside of the l hospital. it is also true that our training — hospital. it is also true that our training is— hospital. it is also true that our training is a— hospital. it is also true that our training is a bad _ hospital. it is also true that our training is a bad emergency- hospital. it is also true that our. training is a bad emergency care, urgent _ training is a bad emergency care, urgent care, _ training is a bad emergency care, urgent care, providing _ training is a bad emergency care, urgent care, providing that in - community. that's quite different to the education — community. that's quite different to the education of _ community. that's quite different to the education of looking _ community. that's quite different to the education of looking after- the education of looking after someone _ the education of looking after someone for— the education of looking after someone for hours _ the education of looking after someone for hours at - the education of looking after someone for hours at a - the education of looking after someone for hours at a time i the education of looking after- someone for hours at a time outside a hospital _ someone for hours at a time outside a hospital so — someone for hours at a time outside a hospital so it— someone for hours at a time outside a hospital. so it is— someone for hours at a time outside a hospital. so it is having _ someone for hours at a time outside a hospital. so it is having a - someone for hours at a time outside a hospital. so it is having a huge - a hospital. so it is having a huge impact _ a hospital. so it is having a huge impact on — a hospital. so it is having a huge impact on morale _ a hospital. so it is having a huge impact on morale and _ a hospital. so it is having a huge impact on morale and having - a hospital. so it is having a huge impact on morale and having a l a hospital. so it is having a huge - impact on morale and having a huge impact _ impact on morale and having a huge impact on _ impact on morale and having a huge impact on patients. _ impact on morale and having a huge impact on patients. you _ impact on morale and having a huge impact on patients. you can- impact on morale and having a huge impact on patients. you can see - impact on patients. you can see everybody— impact on patients. you can see everybody is _ impact on patients. you can see everybody is frustrated, - impact on patients. you can see. everybody is frustrated, including the ed _ everybody is frustrated, including the ed doctors _ everybody is frustrated, including the ed doctors that _ everybody is frustrated, including the ed doctors that we _ everybody is frustrated, including the ed doctors that we then - everybody is frustrated, including - the ed doctors that we then handover two. the ed doctors that we then handover two is _ the ed doctors that we then handover two. . . the ed doctors that we then handover two. , , . , two. is this the real underlying driver of tomorrow's _ two. is this the real underlying driver of tomorrow's strike? i two. is this the real underlying | driver of tomorrow's strike? we two. is this the real underlying - driver of tomorrow's strike? we are a professional— driver of tomorrow's strike? we are a professional body _ driver of tomorrow's strike? we are a professional body and _ driver of tomorrow's strike? we are a professional body and not - driver of tomorrow's strike? we are a professional body and not a - driver of tomorrow's strike? we are a professional body and not a trade| a professional body and not a trade union— a professional body and not a trade union but— a professional body and not a trade union but in— a professional body and not a trade union but in terms _ a professional body and not a trade union but in terms of— a professional body and not a trade union but in terms of what - a professional body and not a trade union but in terms of what our- union but in terms of what our mothers — union but in terms of what our mothers are _ union but in terms of what our mothers are telling _ union but in terms of what our mothers are telling us, - union but in terms of what our mothers are telling us, the . mothers are telling us, the frustration _ mothers are telling us, the frustration is _ mothers are telling us, the frustration is they- mothers are telling us, the frustration is they are - mothers are telling us, the frustration is they are worn mothers are telling us, the - frustration is they are worn out, they— frustration is they are worn out, they are — frustration is they are worn out, they are tired _ frustration is they are worn out, they are tired and _ frustration is they are worn out, they are tired and they - frustration is they are worn out, they are tired and they want - frustration is they are worn out, they are tired and they want toi frustration is they are worn out, i they are tired and they want to get back to _ they are tired and they want to get back to being — they are tired and they want to get back to being good _ they are tired and they want to get back to being good paramedics. i they are tired and they want to getj back to being good paramedics. —— what _ back to being good paramedics. —— what our— back to being good paramedics. —— what our members _ back to being good paramedics. —— what our members are _ back to being good paramedics. —— what our members are telling - back to being good paramedics. —— what our members are telling us. i what our members are telling us. darren, _ what our members are telling us. darren, i— what our members are telling us. darren, iwonder— what our members are telling us. darren, i wonder if— what our members are telling us. darren, i wonder if i _ what our members are telling us. darren, i wonder if i could - what our members are telling us. darren, i wonder if i could ask- what our members are telling us. i darren, i wonder if i could ask you, what _ darren, i wonder if i could ask you, what else _ darren, i wonder if i could ask you, what else you — darren, i wonder if i could ask you, what else you would _ darren, i wonder if i could ask you, what else you would like _ darren, i wonder if i could ask you, what else you would like to - darren, i wonder if i could ask you, what else you would like to see - what else you would like to see happen — what else you would like to see happen to — what else you would like to see happen to improve _ what else you would like to see happen to improve the - what else you would like to see | happen to improve the situation what else you would like to see - happen to improve the situation we 'ust happen to improve the situation we just heard — happen to improve the situation we just heard so — happen to improve the situation we just heard so eloquently— happen to improve the situation we just heard so eloquently described. j just heard so eloquently described. -- daren — just heard so eloquently described. -- daren in— just heard so eloquently described. " daren in the— just heard so eloquently described. —— daren. in the short _ just heard so eloquently described. —— daren. in the short term - just heard so eloquently described. —— daren. in the short term we - just heard so eloquently described. i —— daren. in the short term we have

to find a way to unblock the flow and we need to find a way to get ambulance patients handing over their patients.— their patients. that is easier said than done- _ their patients. that is easier said than done. and _ their patients. that is easier said than done. and as _ their patients. that is easier said than done. and as you _ their patients. that is easier said than done. and as you allude - their patients. that is easier said than done. and as you allude to | their patients. that is easier said - than done. and as you allude to some areas can do — than done. and as you allude to some areas can do it — than done. and as you allude to some areas can do it better— than done. and as you allude to some areas can do it better than _ than done. and as you allude to some areas can do it better than others. - areas can do it better than others. the work i'm doing with the association of ambulance chief executives, julian and others is how do we _ executives, julian and others is how do we share — executives, julian and others is how do we share the best practice across all parts _ do we share the best practice across all parts of— do we share the best practice across all parts of the country to see if we can— all parts of the country to see if we can reduce some of that unwanted variation _ we can reduce some of that unwanted variation. there is a big push to do that _ variation. there is a big push to do that even — variation. there is a big push to do that. even the ambulance regions that. even the ambulance regions that had _ that. even the ambulance regions that had relatively good handovers over the _ that had relatively good handovers over the last few years, in the north—west where animals of the chief— north—west where animals of the chief executive, that is starting to -et chief executive, that is starting to get worse — chief executive, that is starting to get worse and worse now because of the flow _ get worse and worse now because of the flow issue. for me it is about how we _ the flow issue. for me it is about how we can — the flow issue. for me it is about how we can get ambulance crews freed up how we can get ambulance crews freed up quickly— how we can get ambulance crews freed up quickly so that they can respond to the _ up quickly so that they can respond to the next— up quickly so that they can respond to the next patient. that is the short— to the next patient. that is the short term. there is a lot of work going _ short term. there is a lot of work going on— short term. there is a lot of work going on now around frailty, falls and mental health because they are a hu-e and mental health because they are a huge volume of work now within the ambulance — huge volume of work now within the ambulance sector, so again working with nhs_ ambulance sector, so again working with nhs england and colleagues

around _ with nhs england and colleagues around how can we perhaps ask mental health— around how can we perhaps ask mental health trusts and community trusts to do— health trusts and community trusts to do more — health trusts and community trusts to do more to support some of those lower— to do more to support some of those lower acuity — to do more to support some of those lower acuity patients that are phoning _ lower acuity patients that are phoning 99 because they don't feel there _ phoning 99 because they don't feel there is— phoning 99 because they don't feel there is an — phoning 99 because they don't feel there is an alternative because that would _ there is an alternative because that would take — there is an alternative because that would take pressure off the ambulance sector to allow this to -et ambulance sector to allow this to get to— ambulance sector to allow this to get to those heart attacks and strokes — get to those heart attacks and strokes and patients we talked about at the _ strokes and patients we talked about at the beginning of the meeting. and then in— at the beginning of the meeting. and then in the _ at the beginning of the meeting. and then in the medium to longer term, we absolutely have to do now right size the _ we absolutely have to do now right size the ambulance sector for the future _ size the ambulance sector for the future and — size the ambulance sector for the future and continue to look at that innovation — future and continue to look at that innovation and international best practice — innovation and international best practice. our staff and our patients deserve _ practice. our staff and our patients deserve it — practice. our staff and our patients deserve it i— practice. our staff and our patients deserve it. i hear what rachel was saying _ deserve it. i hear what rachel was saying about how staff are feeling, and i_ saying about how staff are feeling, and i hear — saying about how staff are feeling, and i hear that every single day i io and i hear that every single day i go out _ and i hear that every single day i go out and — and i hear that every single day i go out and do a clinical shift as a paramedic. — go out and do a clinical shift as a paramedic, orwhen go out and do a clinical shift as a paramedic, or when i go out to do station _ paramedic, or when i go out to do station visits. it is soul destroying it really is, for our staff— destroying it really is, for our staffjust _ destroying it really is, for our staffjust now. in destroying it really is, for our staffjust now.— destroying it really is, for our staffjust now. destroying it really is, for our staff 'ust now. , ., ., staff 'ust now. in the short term do ou staffjust now. in the short term do you foresee — staffjust now. in the short term do you foresee this _ staffjust now. in the short term do you foresee this will _ staffjust now. in the short term do you foresee this will continue - staffjust now. in the short term do you foresee this will continue to . you foresee this will continue to deteriorate, this situation? daren? i cannot see how in the next few weeks _ i cannot see how in the next few weeks and — i cannot see how in the next few weeks and months ahead that the

situation — weeks and months ahead that the situation will improve.— weeks and months ahead that the situation will improve. thank you. can i ask about _ situation will improve. thank you. can i ask about targets, _ situation will improve. thank you. can i ask about targets, response | can i ask about targets, response time targets? they were introduced four years ago. i don't think they have been met consistently since they were actually introduced. would it be useful to not have targets? have targets been a factor of complication?— have targets been a factor of complication? targets have an interesting _ complication? targets have an interesting effect _ complication? targets have an interesting effect on _ complication? targets have an i interesting effect on paramedics. they have — interesting effect on paramedics. they have changed _ interesting effect on paramedics. they have changed a _ interesting effect on paramedics. they have changed a number- interesting effect on paramedics. they have changed a number of. interesting effect on paramedics. - they have changed a number of times in the _ they have changed a number of times in the 20 _ they have changed a number of times in the 20 years— they have changed a number of times in the 20 years i— they have changed a number of times in the 20 years i have _ they have changed a number of times in the 20 years i have been _ they have changed a number of times in the 20 years i have been a - in the 20 years i have been a paramedic _ in the 20 years i have been a paramedic. we _ in the 20 years i have been a paramedic. we pride - in the 20 years i have been a l paramedic. we pride ourselves in the 20 years i have been a - paramedic. we pride ourselves on providing — paramedic. we pride ourselves on providing good _ paramedic. we pride ourselves on providing good care. _ paramedic. we pride ourselves on providing good care. you - paramedic. we pride ourselves on providing good care. you need - paramedic. we pride ourselves on providing good care. you need to| providing good care. you need to have _ providing good care. you need to have a _ providing good care. you need to have a way— providing good care. you need to have a way of— providing good care. you need to have a way of monitoring - providing good care. you need to have a way of monitoring that. i providing good care. you need to| have a way of monitoring that. at the beginning _ have a way of monitoring that. at the beginning of— have a way of monitoring that. at the beginning of the _ have a way of monitoring that. at the beginning of the session - have a way of monitoring that. at the beginning of the session we i the beginning of the session we mentioned _ the beginning of the session we mentioned the _ the beginning of the session we mentioned the british _ the beginning of the session we mentioned the british heart- mentioned the british heart foundation— mentioned the british heart foundation report, - mentioned the british heart foundation report, for- mentioned the british heart| foundation report, for some conditions _ foundation report, for some conditions time _ foundation report, for some conditions time plays - foundation report, for some conditions time plays a - foundation report, for somej conditions time plays a huge foundation report, for some - conditions time plays a huge factor and monitoring _ conditions time plays a huge factor and monitoring time _ conditions time plays a huge factor and monitoring time is— conditions time plays a huge factor and monitoring time is absolutely. and monitoring time is absolutely important~ — and monitoring time is absolutely important~ is— and monitoring time is absolutely important~ is it— and monitoring time is absolutely important. is it the _ and monitoring time is absolutely important. is it the only- and monitoring time is absolutely important. is it the only thing - and monitoring time is absolutely important. is it the only thing we| important. is it the only thing we should _ important. is it the only thing we should monitor— important. is it the only thing we should monitor and _ important. is it the only thing we should monitor and get- important. is it the only thing we should monitor and get hung - important. is it the only thing we should monitor and get hung upi important. is it the only thing we . should monitor and get hung up on? important. is it the only thing we - should monitor and get hung up on? i think the _ should monitor and get hung up on? i think the answer— should monitor and get hung up on? i think the answer to _ should monitor and get hung up on? i think the answer to that _ should monitor and get hung up on? i think the answer to that is _ should monitor and get hung up on? i think the answer to that is no - should monitor and get hung up on? i think the answer to that is no end - think the answer to that is no end paramedics— think the answer to that is no end paramedics would _ think the answer to that is no end paramedics would tell— think the answer to that is no end paramedics would tell you - think the answer to that is no end paramedics would tell you time i think the answer to that is no end paramedics would tell you time isj

paramedics would tell you time is important — paramedics would tell you time is important but _ paramedics would tell you time is important but is _ paramedics would tell you time is important but is not _ paramedics would tell you time is important but is not the - paramedics would tell you time is important but is not the only- important but is not the only factor — important but is not the only factor. ~ . . important but is not the only factor. ~ . , , ., , factor. what else should we be -auttin factor. what else should we be putting into — factor. what else should we be putting into those? _ factor. what else should we be putting into those? at - factor. what else should we be putting into those? at the - factor. what else should we be - putting into those? at the moment it is purely to do with response time, are we hitting it or not? and that has an effect on public perception too. ,, . . . . has an effect on public perception too. ,, . . i . . too. nhs england and julian may want too. nhs england and julian may want to commit, too. nhs england and julian may want to commit. we — too. nhs england and julian may want to commit, we have _ too. nhs england and julian may want to commit, we have the _ too. nhs england and julian may want to commit, we have the clinical- to commit, we have the clinical quality— to commit, we have the clinical quality indicators, _ to commit, we have the clinical quality indicators, taking - to commit, we have the clinical- quality indicators, taking something like a _ quality indicators, taking something like a heart — quality indicators, taking something like a heart attack, _ quality indicators, taking something like a heart attack, phoning - quality indicators, taking something like a heart attack, phoning up- quality indicators, taking something like a heart attack, phoning up with| like a heart attack, phoning up with chest— like a heart attack, phoning up with chest pain, — like a heart attack, phoning up with chest pain, we _ like a heart attack, phoning up with chest pain, we look— like a heart attack, phoning up with chest pain, we look at _ like a heart attack, phoning up with chest pain, we look at the - like a heart attack, phoning up withj chest pain, we look at the response time and _ chest pain, we look at the response time and we — chest pain, we look at the response time and we also _ chest pain, we look at the response time and we also look— chest pain, we look at the response time and we also look at _ chest pain, we look at the response time and we also look at once - chest pain, we look at the response time and we also look at once the l time and we also look at once the paramedic— time and we also look at once the paramedic arrives, _ time and we also look at once the paramedic arrives, do _ time and we also look at once the paramedic arrives, do they- time and we also look at once the paramedic arrives, do they give i paramedic arrives, do they give analgesia, _ paramedic arrives, do they give analgesia, pain— paramedic arrives, do they give analgesia, pain relief, - paramedic arrives, do they give analgesia, pain relief, do - paramedic arrives, do they give analgesia, pain relief, do we i paramedic arrives, do they give i analgesia, pain relief, do we take the patient — analgesia, pain relief, do we take the patient to— analgesia, pain relief, do we take the patient to the _ analgesia, pain relief, do we take the patient to the right _ analgesia, pain relief, do we take the patient to the right location? | the patient to the right location? 0ften _ the patient to the right location? 0ften for— the patient to the right location? often for patients _ the patient to the right location? often for patients having - the patient to the right location? often for patients having a - the patient to the right location? often for patients having a heart| often for patients having a heart attack _ often for patients having a heart attack it — often for patients having a heart attack it is — often for patients having a heart attack it is not _ often for patients having a heart attack it is not to _ often for patients having a heart attack it is not to the _ often for patients having a heart attack it is not to the local- attack it is not to the local district _ attack it is not to the local district general— attack it is not to the local district general hospital, i attack it is not to the local. district general hospital, to somewhere _ district general hospital, to somewhere else. _ district general hospital, to somewhere else. there - district general hospital, to somewhere else. there are| district general hospital, to - somewhere else. there are other bundles _ somewhere else. there are other bundles used _ somewhere else. there are other bundles used but _ somewhere else. there are other bundles used but often _ somewhere else. there are other bundles used but often not - somewhere else. there are other. bundles used but often not reported on. bundles used but often not reported on but— bundles used but often not reported on but time — bundles used but often not reported on. but time still— bundles used but often not reported on. but time still remains— bundles used but often not reported on. but time still remains a - bundles used but often not reported on. but time still remains a factor. on. but time still remains a factor in that _ on. but time still remains a factor in that i— on. but time still remains a factor in that ithink— on. but time still remains a factor in that. ithink it— on. but time still remains a factor in that. ithink it is— on. but time still remains a factor in that. 1 think it is both, - on. but time still remains a factor in that. i think it is both, you - in that. i think it is both, you have — in that. i think it is both, you have to — in that. i think it is both, you have to have _ in that. i think it is both, you have to have both. _ in that. i think it is both, you have to have both. do- in that. i think it is both, you have to have both.— in that. i think it is both, you have to have both. do we need taraets? have to have both. do we need targets? would _ have to have both. do we need targets? would it _ have to have both. do we need targets? would it be _ have to have both. do we need targets? would it be better- have to have both. do we need targets? would it be better if. have to have both. do we need i targets? would it be better if we got rid of them? i targets? would it be better if we got rid of them?— got rid of them? i think it is important — got rid of them? i think it is important to _ got rid of them? i think it is important to remember - got rid of them? i think it is i important to remember where got rid of them? i think it is - important to remember where the targets— important to remember where the targets came from because they came from a _ targets came from because they came from a process, and colleagues will know _ from a process, and colleagues will know more — from a process, and colleagues will know more about this than i do, but iwill— know more about this than i do, but i will do _ know more about this than i do, but i will do my— know more about this than i do, but i will do my best so correct me if

i'm i will do my best so correct me if i'm wrong — i will do my best so correct me if i'm wrong. it was a clinically led position— i'm wrong. it was a clinically led position where they reviewed lots of different _ position where they reviewed lots of different ambulance calls in 2015 i think— different ambulance calls in 2015 i think it _ different ambulance calls in 2015 i think it was, through a long process to look— think it was, through a long process to look at— think it was, through a long process to look at what the target time should — to look at what the target time should be four different types of categories. the category one response _ categories. the category one response time of eight minutes is important — response time of eight minutes is important because that is how fast we need _ important because that is how fast we need to get to for patients who may have — we need to get to for patients who may have a — we need to get to for patients who may have a cardiac arrest to increase _ may have a cardiac arrest to increase survival times. that is also _ increase survival times. that is also true — increase survival times. that is also true when we look at some of the category two response calls as well _ the category two response calls as well. there are conditions which do rely on _ well. there are conditions which do rely on that— well. there are conditions which do rely on that time. it is important that the — rely on that time. it is important that the public have confidence as best we _ that the public have confidence as best we can to give them the confidence that they will get the responses they would expect. if the tar: ets are responses they would expect. if the targets are being _ responses they would expect. if t1e; targets are being consistently not met over a long period of time, and we may have the argument they are calibrated wrongly, doesn't that undermine public confidence unnecessarily in that it sets an expectation that the system is to simply not going to meet? 1 simply not going to meet? i understand your point. but i think

it's also— understand your point. but i think it's also important that we continue to strive _ it's also important that we continue to strive to — it's also important that we continue to strive to improve our services all the _ to strive to improve our services all the time, and where there are time _ all the time, and where there are time critical interventions required, then i think we do need to make _ required, then i think we do need to make sure _ required, then i think we do need to make sure that we are meeting those. ithink— make sure that we are meeting those. i think the _ make sure that we are meeting those. i think the time standards are right — i think the time standards are right it — i think the time standards are right it is _ i think the time standards are right. it is always nice to look at some _ right. it is always nice to look at some outcome measures as well but that is— some outcome measures as well but that is difficult sometimes when the public— that is difficult sometimes when the public want to know exactly what they could expect, that can be complicated sometimes if we go into more _ complicated sometimes if we go into more complicated types of monitoring for those _ more complicated types of monitoring for those. . . . ., more complicated types of monitoring for those. .. . . , ., for those. rachel, what are your members _ for those. rachel, what are your members think— for those. rachel, what are your members think about _ for those. rachel, what are your members think about targets? l members think about targets? unfortunately, because of the staffing crisis and the demand on resources, targets are just a number now because they know they can't meet them, regardless of how much effort they put into their working day. they know they are being prevented from meeting the targets. i think the reason for that is demand for ambulances has risen ten times faster than the level of resources. so it isjust times faster than the level of resources. so it is just becoming impossible to possibly meet all the demand that the public are wanting

from the ambulance service. we have seen call volumes go up by 80% since 2010, and when you have 133,000 vacancies across the entire nhs there just aren't the individuals there just aren't the individuals there to be able to respond to all those calls that are coming in. it was mentioned earlier about the increase in cat one cause. category two calls have gone up as well. they have gone up from 25 minutes to an average of 48 minutes in two years, and that is actually leading to more deaths during patient transport. we are going to speak to the secretary of state about some information we have on that. but these delays are impacting on patient deaths and we have to tackle the root cause of this which is the work force issue which ultimately comes down to their pay and their working conditions. i pay and their working conditions. i just wanted to come on and talk about this, number of you spoke about this, number of you spoke about the changing nature of demand.

ijust about the changing nature of demand. i just want to ask daren, about the changing nature of demand. ijust want to ask daren, is it possible that we are categorising too much into category one and category two, when we are triaging calls? so even though demand is going up, the composition of that demand is being skewed because of decisions at the triage point? what do you think? just decisions at the triage point? what do you think?— do you think? just before i answer that oint do you think? just before i answer that point i _ do you think? just before i answer that point i want _ do you think? just before i answer that point i want to _ do you think? just before i answer that point i want to come - do you think? just before i answer that point i want to come back- do you think? just before i answer that point i want to come back in i that point i want to come back in the last— that point i want to come back in the last question _ that point i want to come back in the last question you _ that point i want to come back in the last question you asked - that point i want to come back in. the last question you asked around the last question you asked around the targets — the last question you asked around the targets i— the last question you asked around the targets. i think— the last question you asked around the targets. i think it _ the last question you asked around the targets. i think it is _ the last question you asked around the targets. i think it is probably. the targets. i think it is probably fair to— the targets. i think it is probably fair to say— the targets. i think it is probably fair to say that _ the targets. i think it is probably fair to say that if _ the targets. i think it is probably fair to say that if you _ the targets. i think it is probably fair to say that if you look- the targets. i think it is probably fair to say that if you look at - the targets. i think it is probablyj fair to say that if you look at just after— fair to say that if you look at just after the — fair to say that if you look at just after the ambulance _ fair to say that if you look at just after the ambulance response i after the ambulance response programme, _ after the ambulance response programme, the _ after the ambulance response programme, the new- after the ambulance response programme, the new targetsi after the ambulance response - programme, the new targetsjulian referred _ programme, the new targetsjulian referred to, — programme, the new targetsjulian referred to, started _ programme, the new targetsjulian referred to, started to _ programme, the new targetsjulian referred to, started to be - programme, the new targetsjulian referred to, started to be looked i programme, the new targetsjulian| referred to, started to be looked at around _ referred to, started to be looked at around 2015, — referred to, started to be looked at around 2015, just _ referred to, started to be looked at around 2015, just prior— referred to, started to be looked at around 2015, just prior to _ referred to, started to be looked at around 2015, just prior to covid - around 2015, just prior to covid many— around 2015, just prior to covid many ambulance _ around 2015, just prior to covid many ambulance trusts - around 2015, just prior to covid many ambulance trusts were i around 2015, just prior to covid - many ambulance trusts were achieving those _ many ambulance trusts were achieving those standards. — many ambulance trusts were achieving those standards, and _ many ambulance trusts were achieving those standards, and in— many ambulance trusts were achieving those standards, and in fact _ many ambulance trusts were achieving those standards, and in fact i - many ambulance trusts were achieving those standards, and in fact i know- those standards, and in fact i know in the _ those standards, and in fact i know in the north—west _ those standards, and in fact i know in the north—west there _ those standards, and in fact i know in the north—west there were - those standards, and in fact i know in the north—west there were a - in the north—west there were a couple — in the north—west there were a couple of— in the north—west there were a couple of weeks _ in the north—west there were a couple of weeks throughout. in the north—west there were al couple of weeks throughout the middle — couple of weeks throughout the middle of— couple of weeks throughout the middle of covid _ couple of weeks throughout the middle of covid demand - couple of weeks throughout the middle of covid demand came i couple of weeks throughout the - middle of covid demand came down and we had _ middle of covid demand came down and we had extra _ middle of covid demand came down and we had extra resources— middle of covid demand came down and we had extra resources on— middle of covid demand came down and we had extra resources on and - middle of covid demand came down and we had extra resources on and we - middle of covid demand came down and we had extra resources on and we had l we had extra resources on and we had met all— we had extra resources on and we had met all of— we had extra resources on and we had met all of our— we had extra resources on and we had met all of our targets, _ we had extra resources on and we had met all of our targets, if _ we had extra resources on and we had met all of our targets, if it _ we had extra resources on and we had met all of our targets, if it wasn't - met all of our targets, if it wasn't for one _ met all of our targets, if it wasn't for one day, _ met all of our targets, if it wasn't for one day, a _ met all of our targets, if it wasn't for one day, a couple _ met all of our targets, if it wasn't for one day, a couple of- met all of our targets, if it wasn't for one day, a couple of days, - met all of our targets, if it wasn't| for one day, a couple of days, but that is— for one day, a couple of days, but that is unfortunately— for one day, a couple of days, but that is unfortunately not - for one day, a couple of days, but that is unfortunately not been - for one day, a couple of days, buti that is unfortunately not been able to be _ that is unfortunately not been able to be sustained _ that is unfortunately not been able to be sustained for— that is unfortunately not been able to be sustained for the _ that is unfortunately not been able to be sustained for the reasons- that is unfortunately not been able

to be sustained for the reasons wej to be sustained for the reasons we have _ to be sustained for the reasons we have just _ to be sustained for the reasons we have just spoken _ to be sustained for the reasons we have just spoken about _ to be sustained for the reasons we have just spoken about just - to be sustained for the reasons we have just spoken aboutjust now, i have just spoken about just now, does _ have just spoken about just now, doesjulian— have just spoken about just now, doesjulian said _ have just spoken about just now, does julian said there _ have just spoken about just now, does julian said there was - have just spoken about just now, does julian said there was a - have just spoken about just now, does julian said there was a lot l have just spoken aboutjust now, | doesjulian said there was a lot of work— doesjulian said there was a lot of work done — doesjulian said there was a lot of work done trying _ doesjulian said there was a lot of work done trying to _ doesjulian said there was a lot of work done trying to look- doesjulian said there was a lot of work done trying to look at - doesjulian said there was a lot of| work done trying to look at having clinical— work done trying to look at having clinical targets _ work done trying to look at having clinical targets in _ work done trying to look at having clinical targets in terms _ work done trying to look at having clinical targets in terms of - clinical targets in terms of response _ clinical targets in terms of response times _ clinical targets in terms of response times and - clinical targets in terms of response times and also l clinical targets in terms of - response times and also ambulance quality— response times and also ambulance quality indicators, _ response times and also ambulance quality indicators, the _ response times and also ambulance quality indicators, the clinical- quality indicators, the clinical outcomes _ quality indicators, the clinical outcomes in— quality indicators, the clinical outcomes. in terms - quality indicators, the clinical outcomes. in terms of- quality indicators, the clinical| outcomes. in terms of triage, quality indicators, the clinical- outcomes. in terms of triage, there are two— outcomes. in terms of triage, there are two primary— outcomes. in terms of triage, there are two primary triage _ outcomes. in terms of triage, there are two primary triage system - outcomes. in terms of triage, there are two primary triage system is- are two primary triage system is used _ are two primary triage system is used in — are two primary triage system is used in the _ are two primary triage system is used in the uk. _ are two primary triage system is used in the uk. one _ are two primary triage system is used in the uk. one is- are two primary triage system is used in the uk. one is nhs- are two primary triage system is- used in the uk. one is nhs pathways and one _ used in the uk. one is nhs pathways and one is— used in the uk. one is nhs pathways and one is in— used in the uk. one is nhs pathways and one is in pds, _ used in the uk. one is nhs pathways and one is in pds, an— used in the uk. one is nhs pathways and one is in pds, an american - and one is in pds, an american product~ — and one is in pds, an american product about— and one is in pds, an american product. about half— and one is in pds, an american product. about half and - and one is in pds, an american product. about half and half. and one is in pds, an american product. about half and half of| and one is in pds, an american i product. about half and half of the ambulance — product. about half and half of the ambulance services _ product. about half and half of the ambulance services in _ product. about half and half of the ambulance services in the - product. about half and half of the ambulance services in the uk - product. about half and half of the ambulance services in the uk usei ambulance services in the uk use those _ ambulance services in the uk use those two — ambulance services in the uk use those two products. _ ambulance services in the uk use those two products. we - ambulance services in the uk use those two products. we have - ambulance services in the uk usei those two products. we have been looking _ those two products. we have been looking at— those two products. we have been looking at how _ those two products. we have been looking at how do _ those two products. we have been looking at how do we _ those two products. we have been looking at how do we continue - those two products. we have been looking at how do we continue to i looking at how do we continue to refine _ looking at how do we continue to refine those _ looking at how do we continue to refine those products _ looking at how do we continue to refine those products to - looking at how do we continue to refine those products to try - looking at how do we continue to refine those products to try and i refine those products to try and make _ refine those products to try and make sure _ refine those products to try and make sure that _ refine those products to try and make sure that with _ refine those products to try and make sure that with nonclinical| refine those products to try and - make sure that with nonclinical call handlers— make sure that with nonclinical call handlers who — make sure that with nonclinical call handlers who do _ make sure that with nonclinical call handlers who do an _ make sure that with nonclinical call handlers who do an ageing - make sure that with nonclinical call. handlers who do an ageing dummigan amazing _ handlers who do an ageing dummigan amazing job _ handlers who do an ageing dummigan amazing job and — handlers who do an ageing dummigan amazing job and a _ handlers who do an ageing dummigan amazing job and a relentless - amazing job and a relentless pressure. _ amazing job and a relentless pressure. we _ amazing job and a relentless pressure, we have _ amazing job and a relentless pressure, we have heard - amazing job and a relentless. pressure, we have heard from amazing job and a relentless - pressure, we have heard from rachel. could _ pressure, we have heard from rachel. could i_ pressure, we have heard from rachel. could ijust _ pressure, we have heard from rachel. could ijust interact? _ pressure, we have heard from rachel. could ijust interact? do— pressure, we have heard from rachel. could ijust interact? do you _ pressure, we have heard from rachel. could ijust interact? do you think- could ijust interact? do you think the pressure might be leading to the easy categorisation of calls into one and two? —— handlers who do an amazing job. one and two? —— handlers who do an amazingjob. is one and two? —— handlers who do an amazing job. is that a consequence of that? i wouldn't say that because the call handlers are trained to follow the algorithm and go through the scripts so they wouldn't deviate

with that the scripts so they wouldn't deviate with than . . , the scripts so they wouldn't deviate with than , , , ., ., with that unless they were told to b a with that unless they were told to by a clinician _ with that unless they were told to by a clinician in _ with that unless they were told to by a clinician in the _ with that unless they were told to by a clinician in the ring _ with that unless they were told to by a clinician in the ring but - with that unless they were told to by a clinician in the ring but even | by a clinician in the ring but even at that— by a clinician in the ring but even at that they— by a clinician in the ring but even at that they are _ by a clinician in the ring but even at that they are likely _ by a clinician in the ring but even at that they are likely to - by a clinician in the ring but even at that they are likely to go - at that they are likely to go through— at that they are likely to go through the _ at that they are likely to go through the whole - at that they are likely to go through the whole script i at that they are likely to go - through the whole script because they are — through the whole script because they are audited _ through the whole script because they are audited on _ through the whole script because they are audited on that - through the whole script because they are audited on that so - through the whole script because they are audited on that so i - through the whole script becausel they are audited on that so i don't think— they are audited on that so i don't think anybodyw _ they are audited on that so i don't think anybody... nobody - they are audited on that so i don't think anybody... nobody is - they are audited on that so i don't think anybody... nobody is doingi they are audited on that so i don'ti think anybody... nobody is doing a short— think anybody... nobody is doing a short cut, — think anybody... nobody is doing a short cut, i— think anybody... nobody is doing a short cut, i know— think anybody... nobody is doing a short cut, i know you _ think anybody... nobody is doing a short cut, i know you aren't - think anybody... nobody is doing a short cut, i know you aren't saying | short cut, i know you aren't saying this. _ short cut, i know you aren't saying this. to _ short cut, i know you aren't saying this. to try— short cut, i know you aren't saying this. to try to _ short cut, i know you aren't saying this, to try to triage _ short cut, i know you aren't saying this, to try to triage calls - this, to try to triage calls differently. _ this, to try to triage calls differently. what- this, to try to triage calls differently. what we - this, to try to triage calls differently. what we are i this, to try to triage calls - differently. what we are seeing, some _ differently. what we are seeing, some piece _ differently. what we are seeing, some piece of— differently. what we are seeing, some piece of this _ differently. what we are seeing, some piece of this early- differently. what we are seeing, some piece of this early on, - differently. what we are seeing, some piece of this early on, onej differently. what we are seeing, i some piece of this early on, one of the witnesses. _ some piece of this early on, one of the witnesses, we _ some piece of this early on, one of the witnesses, we are _ some piece of this early on, one of the witnesses, we are seeing - some piece of this early on, one ofi the witnesses, we are seeing sicker patients— the witnesses, we are seeing sicker patients as — the witnesses, we are seeing sicker patients as well _ the witnesses, we are seeing sicker patients as well. we _ the witnesses, we are seeing sicker patients as well. we are _ the witnesses, we are seeing sicker patients as well. we are seeing - the witnesses, we are seeing sicker patients as well. we are seeing a i patients as well. we are seeing a lot more — patients as well. we are seeing a lot more sicker— patients as well. we are seeing a lot more sicker patients- patients as well. we are seeing a lot more sicker patients in- patients as well. we are seeing a lot more sicker patients in the i lot more sicker patients in the category— lot more sicker patients in the category one _ lot more sicker patients in the category one and _ lot more sicker patients in the category one and two - lot more sicker patients in the category one and two basket i lot more sicker patients in the - category one and two basket which is driving _ category one and two basket which is driving up _ category one and two basket which is driving up those _ category one and two basket which is driving up those numbers, _ category one and two basket which is driving up those numbers, if- category one and two basket which is driving up those numbers, if i'm - driving up those numbers, if i'm being— driving up those numbers, if i'm being honest _ driving up those numbers, if i'm being honest. we _ driving up those numbers, if i'm being honest. we have - driving up those numbers, if i'm being honest. we have also - being honest. we have also introduced _ being honest. we have also introduced in— being honest. we have also introduced in addition - being honest. we have also introduced in addition to . being honest. we have also| introduced in addition to our being honest. we have also - introduced in addition to our highly trained _ introduced in addition to our highly trained call— introduced in addition to our highly trained call handlers, _ introduced in addition to our highly trained call handlers, we _ introduced in addition to our highly trained call handlers, we have - trained call handlers, we have introduced _ trained call handlers, we have introduced many— trained call handlers, we have introduced many more - trained call handlers, we have i introduced many more clinicians trained call handlers, we have - introduced many more clinicians into control— introduced many more clinicians into control rooms — introduced many more clinicians into control rooms as _ introduced many more clinicians into control rooms as well— introduced many more clinicians into control rooms as well over _ introduced many more clinicians into control rooms as well over the - introduced many more clinicians into control rooms as well over the last i control rooms as well over the last few years. — control rooms as well over the last few years. is— control rooms as well over the last few years, is that _ control rooms as well over the last few years, is that could _ control rooms as well over the last few years, is that could be - control rooms as well over the last few years, is that could be mental| few years, is that could be mental health— few years, is that could be mental health nurses. _ few years, is that could be mental health nurses, midwives, - few years, is that could be mental- health nurses, midwives, paramedics, general— health nurses, midwives, paramedics, general nurses — health nurses, midwives, paramedics, general nurses with _ health nurses, midwives, paramedics, general nurses with a _ health nurses, midwives, paramedics, general nurses with a view _ health nurses, midwives, paramedics, general nurses with a view to - general nurses with a view to supporting _ general nurses with a view to supporting our— general nurses with a view to supporting our call— general nurses with a view to supporting our call handlersi general nurses with a view to. supporting our call handlers to triage — supporting our call handlers to triage those _ supporting our call handlers to triage those patients - supporting our call handlers to triage those patients the - supporting our call handlers to triage those patients the besti supporting our call handlers to i triage those patients the best we can. triage those patients the best we can we — triage those patients the best we can we are _ triage those patients the best we can. we are putting _ triage those patients the best we can. we are putting a _ triage those patients the best we can. we are putting a lot- triage those patients the best we can. we are putting a lot of- can. we are putting a lot of emphasis _ can. we are putting a lot of emphasis and _ can. we are putting a lot of emphasis and support - can. we are putting a lot of emphasis and support into| can. we are putting a lot of. emphasis and support into the can. we are putting a lot of- emphasis and support into the call centres _ emphasis and support into the call centres but— emphasis and support into the call centres but it _ emphasis and support into the call centres. but itjust_ emphasis and support into the call centres. but itjust isn't— emphasis and support into the call centres. but itjust isn't enough. centres. but itjust isn't enough with— centres. but itjust isn't enough with the — centres. but itjust isn't enough with the volume _ centres. but itjust isn't enough with the volume of— centres. but itjust isn't enough with the volume of calls - centres. but itjust isn't enough with the volume of calls we - centres. but itjust isn't enough with the volume of calls we are| with the volume of calls we are receiving — with the volume of calls we are receiving just _ with the volume of calls we are receiving just now. _ with the volume of calls we are receiving just now. it _ with the volume of calls we are receiving just now. it is - with the volume of calls we are receiving just now. it is the - receiving just now. it is the knock-on _ receiving just now. it is the knock—on effect _ receiving just now. it is the knock—on effect of- receiving just now. it is the knock—on effect of the - receiving just now. it is the - knock—on effect of the duplicate because — knock—on effect of the duplicate because that _ knock—on effect of the duplicate because that is _ knock—on effect of the duplicate because that is causing - knock—on effect of the duplicate because that is causing the - knock—on effect of the duplicate - because that is causing the problem. if we

because that is causing the problem. if we cannot — because that is causing the problem. if we cannot get _ because that is causing the problem. if we cannot get the _ because that is causing the problem. if we cannot get the vehicle - because that is causing the problem. if we cannot get the vehicle is - if we cannot get the vehicle is freed — if we cannot get the vehicle is freed up — if we cannot get the vehicle is freed up at _ if we cannot get the vehicle is freed up at the _ if we cannot get the vehicle is freed up at the hospital- if we cannot get the vehicle is freed up at the hospital the i freed up at the hospital the response _ freed up at the hospital the response to _ freed up at the hospital the response to patients - freed up at the hospital the response to patients in- freed up at the hospital the response to patients in the| response to patients in the community— response to patients in the community may— response to patients in the community may be - response to patients in the community may be takingi response to patients in the - community may be taking several thousand — community may be taking several thousand duplicate _ community may be taking several thousand duplicate calls - community may be taking several thousand duplicate calls blocking| thousand duplicate calls blocking the whole — thousand duplicate calls blocking the whole thing _ thousand duplicate calls blocking the whole thing up. _ thousand duplicate calls blocking the whole thing up. i— thousand duplicate calls blocking the whole thing up.— the whole thing up. i think there was a copple _ the whole thing up. i think there was a couple of _ the whole thing up. i think there was a couple of references - the whole thing up. i think there was a couple of references to i the whole thing up. i think there l was a couple of references to the fact you are getting an increased number of calls related to mental health. a variety of sorts. how do you think they should be handled? how does it work at the moment? if somebody presents through the call system with, say, an acute mental health issue in crisis, does that get triage out somewhere else? or is it handled directly by the ambulance service? orare it handled directly by the ambulance service? or are they in a kind of grey area? was that a question for me? yeah. so we triaged _ was that a question for me? yeah. so we triaged mental _ was that a question for me? yeah. so we triaged mental health, - so we triaged mental health, frailty. — so we triaged mental health, frailty, falls, _ so we triaged mental health, frailty, falls, the _ so we triaged mental health, frailty, falls, the same - so we triaged mental health, frailty, falls, the same as - so we triaged mental health, frailty, falls, the same as wej

so we triaged mental health, - frailty, falls, the same as we would with any— frailty, falls, the same as we would with any other _ frailty, falls, the same as we would with any other call, _ frailty, falls, the same as we would with any other call, coming - frailty, falls, the same as we would with any other call, coming in - with any other call, coming in through— with any other call, coming in through the _ with any other call, coming in through the 999 _ with any other call, coming in through the 999 system. - with any other call, coming in through the 999 system. our| with any other call, coming in - through the 999 system. our call handlers— through the 999 system. our call handlers would _ through the 999 system. our call handlers would take _ through the 999 system. our call handlers would take them - through the 999 system. our calll handlers would take them through through the 999 system. our call- handlers would take them through the call handling _ handlers would take them through the call handling triage _ handlers would take them through the call handling triage system _ handlers would take them through the call handling triage system and - handlers would take them through the call handling triage system and they i call handling triage system and they would _ call handling triage system and they would then— call handling triage system and they would then come _ call handling triage system and they would then come out _ call handling triage system and they would then come out with _ call handling triage system and they would then come out with certain i would then come out with certain dispositions— would then come out with certain dispositions at— would then come out with certain dispositions at the _ would then come out with certain dispositions at the end _ would then come out with certain dispositions at the end of - would then come out with certain dispositions at the end of that. itj dispositions at the end of that. it might— dispositions at the end of that. it might be — dispositions at the end of that. it might be that _ dispositions at the end of that. it might be that there _ dispositions at the end of that. it might be that there is— dispositions at the end of that. it might be that there is an - dispositions at the end of that. it i might be that there is an immediate threat _ might be that there is an immediate threat to— might be that there is an immediate threat to life — might be that there is an immediate threat to life and _ might be that there is an immediate threat to life and it _ might be that there is an immediate threat to life and it comes _ might be that there is an immediate threat to life and it comes out - might be that there is an immediate threat to life and it comes out as i might be that there is an immediate threat to life and it comes out as a i threat to life and it comes out as a category— threat to life and it comes out as a category one — threat to life and it comes out as a category one call— threat to life and it comes out as a category one call and _ threat to life and it comes out as a category one call and we _ threat to life and it comes out as a category one call and we would i category one call and we would dispatch— category one call and we would dispatch an _ category one call and we would dispatch an ambulance. - category one call and we would dispatch an ambulance. it i category one call and we wouldi dispatch an ambulance. it might category one call and we would - dispatch an ambulance. it might come out as— dispatch an ambulance. it might come out as a _ dispatch an ambulance. it might come out as a lower — dispatch an ambulance. it might come out as a lower urgency— dispatch an ambulance. it might come out as a lower urgency call— dispatch an ambulance. it might come out as a lower urgency call in - dispatch an ambulance. it might come out as a lower urgency call in which i out as a lower urgency call in which case. _ out as a lower urgency call in which case. where — out as a lower urgency call in which case. where we _ out as a lower urgency call in which case, where we would _ out as a lower urgency call in which case, where we would ask- out as a lower urgency call in which case, where we would ask one i out as a lower urgency call in which case, where we would ask one of i out as a lower urgency call in which i case, where we would ask one of the clinicians _ case, where we would ask one of the clinicians to — case, where we would ask one of the clinicians to look— case, where we would ask one of the clinicians to look at _ case, where we would ask one of the clinicians to look at that _ case, where we would ask one of the clinicians to look at that call - case, where we would ask one of the clinicians to look at that call and i clinicians to look at that call and take _ clinicians to look at that call and take a _ clinicians to look at that call and take a mental— clinicians to look at that call and take a mental health _ clinicians to look at that call and take a mental health patient i clinicians to look at that call and take a mental health patient asi clinicians to look at that call and i take a mental health patient as an example. — take a mental health patient as an example. and— take a mental health patient as an example, and phoned _ take a mental health patient as an example, and phoned the - take a mental health patient as an example, and phoned the patienti example, and phoned the patient back~ _ example, and phoned the patient back. however, _ example, and phoned the patient back. however, we _ example, and phoned the patient back. however, we are _ example, and phoned the patient. back. however, we are increasingly seeing _ back. however, we are increasingly seeing that— back. however, we are increasingly seeing that a — back. however, we are increasingly seeing that a lot _ back. however, we are increasingly seeing that a lot of _ back. however, we are increasingly seeing that a lot of the _ back. however, we are increasingly seeing that a lot of the calls - seeing that a lot of the calls coming _ seeing that a lot of the calls coming in _ seeing that a lot of the calls coming in for— seeing that a lot of the calls coming in for frailty, - seeing that a lot of the calls coming in for frailty, falls i seeing that a lot of the calls i coming in for frailty, falls and mental— coming in for frailty, falls and mental health— coming in for frailty, falls and mental health could - coming in for frailty, falls and mental health could be - coming in for frailty, falls and mental health could be dealti coming in for frailty, falls and i mental health could be dealt with more _ mental health could be dealt with more appropriately— mental health could be dealt with more appropriately by— mental health could be dealt with more appropriately by other i mental health could be dealt withj more appropriately by other parts mental health could be dealt with i more appropriately by other parts of the system — more appropriately by other parts of the system so— more appropriately by other parts of the system. so what _ more appropriately by other parts of the system. so what we _ more appropriately by other parts of the system. so what we are - more appropriately by other parts of the system. so what we are workingj the system. so what we are working on hard _ the system. so what we are working on hard now— the system. so what we are working on hard now in— the system. so what we are working on hard now in nhs— the system. so what we are working on hard now in nhs england - the system. so what we are working on hard now in nhs england and i the system. so what we are working i on hard now in nhs england and other mental— on hard now in nhs england and other mental health — on hard now in nhs england and other mental health and _ on hard now in nhs england and other mental health and community - mental health and community colleague _ mental health and community colleague partners— mental health and community colleague partners is, - mental health and community colleague partners is, how- mental health and community| colleague partners is, how can mental health and community i colleague partners is, how can we signpost— colleague partners is, how can we signpost those _ colleague partners is, how can we signpost those patients _ colleague partners is, how can we signpost those patients much i colleague partners is, how can we i signpost those patients much quicker to mental— signpost those patients much quicker to mental health _ signpost those patients much quicker to mental health crisis _ signpost those patients much quicker to mental health crisis lines, - to mental health crisis lines, mental— to mental health crisis lines, mental health— to mental health crisis lines, mental health community i to mental health crisis lines, i mental health community teams, to mental health crisis lines, - mental health community teams, and community— mental health community teams, and community services? _

mental health community teams, and community services? if _ mental health community teams, and community services? if we _ mental health community teams, and community services? if we can't i mental health community teams, and community services? if we can't do i community services? if we can't do that, _ community services? if we can't do that, it _ community services? if we can't do that, it overwhelms _ community services? if we can't do that, it overwhelms the _ community services? if we can't do that, it overwhelms the 999 - that, it overwhelms the 999 ambulance _ that, it overwhelms the 999 ambulance service - that, it overwhelms the 999 ambulance service and - that, it overwhelms the 999 ambulance service and then that, it overwhelms the 999 . ambulance service and then we that, it overwhelms the 999 - ambulance service and then we can't respond _ ambulance service and then we can't respond to— ambulance service and then we can't respond to the — ambulance service and then we can't respond to the higher acuity- respond to the higher acuity patients _ respond to the higher acuity patients so— respond to the higher acuity patients. so there _ respond to the higher acuity patients. so there is - respond to the higher acuity patients. so there is a - respond to the higher acuity patients. so there is a lot. respond to the higher acuityi patients. so there is a lot of respond to the higher acuity- patients. so there is a lot of work going _ patients. so there is a lot of work going on— patients. so there is a lot of work going on to — patients. so there is a lot of work going on to see _ patients. so there is a lot of work going on to see what _ patients. so there is a lot of work going on to see what more - patients. so there is a lot of work going on to see what more we - patients. so there is a lot of work| going on to see what more we can patients. so there is a lot of work - going on to see what more we can do to establish _ going on to see what more we can do to establish more _ going on to see what more we can do to establish more robust, _ going on to see what more we can do to establish more robust, available . to establish more robust, available 24/7 responses _ to establish more robust, available 24/7 responses so _ to establish more robust, available 24/7 responses so that _ to establish more robust, available 24/7 responses so that when - to establish more robust, available 24/7 responses so that when we i to establish more robust, available i 24/7 responses so that when we need them, _ 24/7 responses so that when we need them, we _ 24/7 responses so that when we need them, we can— 24/7 responses so that when we need them, we can respond. _ 24/7 responses so that when we need them, we can respond. so _ 24/7 responses so that when we need them, we can respond. so that- 24/7 responses so that when we need them, we can respond. so that takes| them, we can respond. so that takes pressure _ them, we can respond. so that takes pressure off— them, we can respond. so that takes pressure off the _ them, we can respond. so that takes pressure off the 999 _ them, we can respond. so that takes pressure off the 999 system. - them, we can respond. so that takes pressure off the 999 system. thankl pressure off the 999 system. thank ou. there pressure off the 999 system. thank you there has— pressure off the 999 system. thank you. there has been _ pressure off the 999 system. thank you. there has been a _ pressure off the 999 system. thank you. there has been a session - pressure off the 999 system. thank you. there has been a session of i you. there has been a session of specific emergency number that make there has been discussion of a specific emergency number for mental health, so that might be an option. let me bring caroline in.— health, so that might be an option. let me bring caroline in. studio: we will leave that _ let me bring caroline in. studio: we will leave that session _ let me bring caroline in. studio: we will leave that session of _ let me bring caroline in. studio: we will leave that session of the - will leave that session of the commons health select committee, which was hearing evidence about ambulance delays and strikes, hearing from health service leaders and union leaders about some of the deep—seated problems in the ambulance service and why we are

seeing such huge delays this winter. nhs nurses in england, wales and northern ireland are striking again today — their second day of industrial action in less than a week. they want a pay rise of i9% but the government says the health service can't afford it — which means thousands more routine appointments and surgeries will be postponed. joining me now is the deputy leader for the liberal democrats — daisy cooper — she is also the party's spokesperson for health and social care. so more strike action by the nurses. they want i9% as a pay rise. that is well above inflation. is that justified?— well above inflation. is that 'ustified? , , . justified? firstly, let me say that these strikes _ justified? firstly, let me say that these strikes are _ justified? firstly, let me say that these strikes are a _ justified? firstly, let me say that these strikes are a tragedy - justified? firstly, let me say that these strikes are a tragedy for. these strikes are a tragedy for patients and nurses. it is extraordinary that the government hasn't managed to resolve this so far. the liberal democrats are calling for a pay increase as close

to inflation as possible. that would be a fair deal. but the government seems to be digging its heels in and has backed itself into a corner. unbelievably, it is refusing to get around the table and negotiate pay. but the government say it's just not affordable, and if they were to pay something like i9% of the nurses, thenit something like i9% of the nurses, then it would be the nhs that would have to pay an patients would suffer, because that money would come out of the nhs budget. i suffer, because that money would come out of the nhs budget. i think that over inflation _ come out of the nhs budget. i think that over inflation pay _ come out of the nhs budget. i think that over inflation pay is _ that over inflation pay is realistic, but liberal democrats do want to see a pay increase for nurses as close to inflation as possible. and there are ways in which the government could afford this. the government could raise taxes or reverse the tax cuts on the big banks, because it gave an 18 billion giveaway at the last budget. the government could look to use a portion of a big windfall tax on the oil and gas companies. it could close a loophole on capital gains

tax for the 0.5% of the super wealthy. there is no shortage of ideas for how the government could raise taxes on the big banks or the oil and gas companies to pay for this pay increase. but politics is about choices, and the conservative government has chosen to allow the strikes to go ahead. but government has chosen to allow the strikes to go ahead.— government has chosen to allow the strikes to go ahead. but as you have 'ust said, strikes to go ahead. but as you have just said. you _ strikes to go ahead. but as you have just said, you don't _ strikes to go ahead. but as you have just said, you don't support - strikes to go ahead. but as you have just said, you don't support the - just said, you don't support the nurses' pay claim of 19%? this just said, you don't support the nurses' pay claim of 19%? first just said, you don't support the nurses' pay claim of 19%? as i say, i think nurses _ nurses' pay claim of 19%? as i say, i think nurses do _ nurses' pay claim of 19%? as i say, i think nurses do deserve - nurses' pay claim of 19%? as i say, i think nurses do deserve a - nurses' pay claim of 19%? as i say, i think nurses do deserve a pay - nurses' pay claim of 19%? as i say, | i think nurses do deserve a pay rise and a pay rise that the government has offered is insulting. so the government needs to get involved in these negotiations, talk to the union about a pay increase, and there needs to be a pay increase is close to inflation as possible. close to inflation, but the independent pay review body came up with the offer and the government say that they have endorsed that independent pay review body recommendation in full. well, the independent _ recommendation in full. well, the independent pay _ recommendation in full. well, the independent pay body _ recommendation in full. well, the independent pay body is - recommendation in full. well, the independent pay body is not - recommendation in full. well, the| independent pay body is not really that independent, because the

government says how much money the pay review body can look at offering. their hands are tied from the get—go. that process doesn't work, so the cabinet has been using underhand tactics by saying they are not going to negotiate on pay was that they have used over inflated figures to make their point and now we are in a dangerous situation where the strikes are going to impact the public directly. frankly, if the health secretary cannot get around the table, resolve these strikes and keep ambulances on our roads in a winter crisis, he is not fit for thejob and roads in a winter crisis, he is not fit for the job and he needs to resign. fit for the 'ob and he needs to resin. _ , , . resign. daisy cooper, deputy leader ofthe resign. daisy cooper, deputy leader of the liberal— resign. daisy cooper, deputy leader of the liberal democrats, _ resign. daisy cooper, deputy leader of the liberal democrats, thank - resign. daisy cooper, deputy leader| of the liberal democrats, thank you. well, as the wave of winter strike action continues — the military are being deployed to do the work of some strikers.

although the government say troops won't be able to use blue lights or drive above the speed limit — in other words, break the law. let's talk to the former head of the army, lord richard dannatt. so armed forces personnel are going to be used in terms of trying to replace some of the work done by striking ambulance staff, but they can't drive very fast?— can't drive very fast? yes. that is an interesting _ can't drive very fast? yes. that is an interesting and _ can't drive very fast? yes. that is an interesting and important- can't drive very fast? yes. that is l an interesting and important issue, but to put this conversation in context before we go down that rabbit hole, the armed forces are clear that they are the nation's reserve of trained manpower and they are happy to be used when the elected government of the day decrease that there is national emergency and we should get involved. protocols for military aid have existed for some time. other departments can call the ministry of defence for help from the minister

of defence's spare capacity. but if we reflect on the last few years, the size of the armed forces has got a lot smaller and they remain extraordinarily busy, so the spare capacity available to support at home it is much reduced. that is the context in which various government departments are asking for help from the military at present. going back to your specific question, it seems to your specific question, it seems to me that if soldiers say they are being asked to drive ambulances in a nonemergency situation, staying within the law but not using blue lights, then frankly, not wanting to sound derogatory, it sounds as though they are being used as taxi drivers. if it is taxi drivers you want, the schools are on holiday and many taxi drivers would like work — bring them into it. it should be remembered that soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines are willing to put their lives on the line for the nation. but doing jobs that others can do in an industrial situation? that is not an emergency like the

pandemic was. that is a decision that decision—makers have allowed to develop and it calls into question the wisdom of using the armed forces in the circumstances. i the wisdom of using the armed forces in the circumstances.— in the circumstances. i don't want to ut in the circumstances. i don't want to put words _ in the circumstances. i don't want to put words into _ in the circumstances. i don't want to put words into your— in the circumstances. i don't want to put words into your mouth, - in the circumstances. i don't want| to put words into your mouth, but are you saying the military shouldn't be used at all in terms of trying to mitigate the effects of the current wave of industrial action across this country? trio the current wave of industrial action across this country? no and that is not — action across this country? no and that is not what _ action across this country? no and that is not what i _ action across this country? no and that is not what i said. _ action across this country? no and that is not what i said. i _ action across this country? no and that is not what i said. i could - that is not what i said. i could repeat all the things i have just said. it is appropriate for the armed forces to be used to help out from their spare capacity in circumstances of national emergency. is this a national emergency? think about it. today the government published at long last its framework for resilience. one of the three core elements of that is that prevention is better than cure. frankly, the circumstances of these industrial disputes we have got ourselves into could have been headed off some time ago if

negotiations had gone on in an appropriate fashion to resolve these issues. the other thing to remember issues. the other thing to remember is that armed forces personnel this year got a pay rise of 3.75%. it's quite a tall order to ask people to stand in for others who are on strike when they are striking for double—digit pay awards. strike when they are striking for double-digit pay awards. frankly, it's not fair- _ double-digit pay awards. frankly, it's not fair. and _ double-digit pay awards. frankly, it's not fair. and i _ double-digit pay awards. frankly, it's not fair. and i suppose - double-digit pay awards. frankly, it's not fair. and i suppose it - double-digit pay awards. frankly, it's not fair. and i suppose it is i it's not fair. and i suppose it is not fair to ask them to miss christmas, which is what some of them will probably end up doing? exactly. last year, and in previous years, we have been very involved in helping out in the pandemic. everyone understands that that is a national emergency, and of course the armed forces will step up to the plate. but this is a series of industrial disputes. i'm not saying who should budge where in these disputes, it's not for me to say. but the government needs to think long and hard when it chooses to use the armed forces in these circumstances. years ago when i was a commander—in—chief and responsible for providing military aid for civil

authorities, we had routine strikes from the fire service. eventually, i told john prescott, we are not going told john prescott, we are not going to do this any more. we have iraq and afghanistan to look after. let soldiers do theirjob and that firemen do theirjobs. in this case, i would say to the rail unions, get on and run the trains and let the soldiers do theirjobs. we muddling things up here and it is unfair and unfortunate. things up here and it is unfair and unfortunate-— unfortunate. let's talk about ukraine, because _ unfortunate. let's talk about ukraine, because i _ unfortunate. let's talk about ukraine, because i can - unfortunate. let's talk about ukraine, because i can see l unfortunate. let's talk about l ukraine, because i can see the ukrainian flag on the desk behind you. we have seen president putin in belarus, trying to potentially involve belarus in the war in ukraine in a more direct way, some reports are suggesting, and maybe joining a new attack on ukraine. what do you make of those reports? we can all spectate on what that is about. if president putin is trying to persuade the belarusians to join in a new offensive, i think the

belarusians would be wise to keep out of it. hitherto, the russian military capability has proven to be woeful. their initial attack in february and march was a spectacular failure. although putin has now constricted some 200,000 additional soldiers, the amount of training they will have had, the equipment, personal clothing and the rest of it that they have been given will mean they are pretty limited as far as their effectiveness is concerned. so if at some point in the late winter and early spring, the russians launched a new military offensive with or without the belarusians, i don't hold out much prospect of that counteroffensive being successful. on the other hand, the ukrainians' capability is being built up significantly by the west. thousands of ukrainian soldiers have been trained in this country. high—tech

weaponry and ammunition is being made available to them. if at some point again, in the late winter or early spring, the ukrainians make a major offensive, that is likely to be successful and could even break the back of the russian army, and that would change the dynamic of the whole war. taste that would change the dynamic of the whole war. ~ . . that would change the dynamic of the whole war. ~ , . , ., ., whole war. we shall see. lord done it, thank whole war. we shall see. lord done it. thank you _ whole war. we shall see. lord done it. thank you very — whole war. we shall see. lord done it, thank you very much. _ whole war. we shall see. lord done it, thank you very much. that - whole war. we shall see. lord done it, thank you very much. that was l it, thank you very much. that was lord richard dannatt, former head of the army. by the way on ukraine, defence secretary ben wallace is going to make an oral statement in the house of commons today about ukraine, sometime around 12.30, i am told. you can find out more about all the strikes, including a full rundown of which workers are taking industrial action on which dates, on the bbc news website. the reality tv star georgia harrison has described herself as lucky after her ex—partner stephen bear

was successfully prosecuted for sharing videos of them having sex online without her permission. the former love island contestant says she wants so—called revenge porn laws to be simplified. annabel rackham reports. georgia harrison has been waiting since 2020 to bring her revenge porn case to trial. a week on from her ex—partner�*s conviction, i'm now with her at home to ask how her life has been over the last couple of years. the way it's affected my work life, people won't ever really understand. financially, it has been really hard for me. more importantly, it's been hard to be silenced, to have to read the comments every day on my instagram, to have to hear so many opinions about myself, but not be able to speak about something. the influencer and reality tv star's ex—boyfriend secretly recorded information footage of them and then sent it to friends and sold it online. the case is being described as one

of the highest profile uses of the revenge porn law, which was first brought in in 2015. i've actually had people who were affected by it in the past sort of bring it up and say how much it means to them to see that this sort of crime is finally being taken seriously in our society. currently, those prosecuting must prove that a sexual photo or video of someone was published without their consent to cause distress or embarrassment. georgia hopes that this clause can be removed under a new law as part of the online safety bill. i think anyone who has a private image, a sexual image, whether you send it to ten people or one person, you need to know the effects that that could cause on someone's life. are there things that you think, "i would love this to change in the law" or "i think this should happen" that would make your life easier? i think online platforms really do need to make sure that their users are safe online and that they're monitoring the content, just as we would in the real world. i just think really, that needs to be strengthened from the top to make sure that

content isn't posted without people's permission, and just that people are safe and if they're not, the companies are held accountable and not just individuals. the government says the online safety bill will make social media companies more responsible for their users' safety online. georgia's ex—partner stephen bear is due to be sentenced injanuary. i was just saying that we have all the strike dates on our website currently listed. and there are new dates that you can add to that list because train drivers at 15 train companies are staging a fresh strike, i am companies are staging a fresh strike, lam hearing, onjanuary the strike, i am hearing, onjanuary the 5th strike, lam hearing, onjanuary the 5th in their long—running dispute over pay. this is train drivers from the union aslef. it is train drivers dean rail companies are staging a fresh strike onjanuary the 5th. the rmt rail union, you might miranda,

have already held quite a few strike days. they are going to have more strike action over the christmas period and in the early new year. but this is on top of that. this is train drivers from the aslef union having a strike onjanuary the 5th. more details on that as they come in. terry hall, best known as the frontman of the ska band the specials, has died aged 63. the singer—song writer found fame in the 19705 and 805 with hits like ghost town, gangsters and too much too young, and also enjoyed chart success with fun boy three. mark savage looks at his life. # why must you record my phone calls? # the specials emerged from coventry at the end of the 19705, bringing black and white musicians together at a time of racial tension.

# a message to you, rudy. # fronted by terry hall, their music was upbeat but socially conscious, and their first seven singles made the top ten, culminating in this. # this place is coming like a ghost town # bands won't play no more # too much fighting on the dancefloor ghost town, released in 1981 as riots spread and unemployment soared across the uk, and terry hall's downbeat delivery captured the despondency. # this town is coming like a ghost town # why must the youth fight against themselves? after ghost town, hall formed another band, fun boy three.

their songs were often lighter, but hall didn't shy away from more difficult topics. one song dealt with his abduction and sexual abuse at the age of 12. # it ain't what you do, it's the place that you do it. and that's when my mental health problems appeared and in that period, the only thing that i could do was take valium, at 14, and that's not great. it really isn't good. although the episode left hall with lifelong depression, music was a solace. # enjoy yourself while you're still in the pink. he rejoined the specials in 2008 and a decade later, the band scored theirfirst ever number one album. hall said it was a long time coming. in a statement on monday night, the band said hall had died after a brief illness.

neville staple, who sang with him in both the specials and fun boy three, said it was a big shock. it's really hit me hard. we fronted the specials and fun boy three together, making history. i'd like to send my condolences to his wife and family. missed, he will be, but his legacy, from a golden age of political pop, will never be forgotten. terry hall, who has died at the age of 63. a study that has "weighed" trees using lasers has revealed that there is almost twice as much carbon locked into uk forests as previously estimated. the research used a 3d scanning technique on 1,000 trees and found significantly more carbon stored

in their trunks and branches. our science correspondent victoria gill reports. even in the cold quiet of winter, this woodland is revealing scientific secrets. we're doing a six hectare area, which is probably one of the largest study areas. researchers are weighing the trees here in wytham wood in oxfordshire, using a laser scanning technique that measures each tree in fine detail. you can see it'sjust a bunch of points, but you can see how we capture the full 3d structure. each laser—scanned point is a dot on a three—dimensional map of a tree, and that's converted into a solid model. this is the measure of each tree's volume, which scientists can use to calculate the amount of carbon that's locked into every inch of trunk and branch. how much does that tree weigh? this one was about 25 tonnes overall, of which about half of that will be carbon.

we have more than almost 1,000 trees that will be nondestructively weighed here with laser and we found significantly more carbon storage in those trees, almost a factor two. so that's very significant. we are not talking about 5% or 10%, it's almost doubling. wytham is a typical uk deciduous woodland in terms of the mix of tree species and age. of course, trees do much more thanjust store carbon, but what this study has done is put a whole new measure on the value that's locked into woodland like this. across the uk, according to the study, woodlands store almost double the amount of planet—warming carbon compared to what was previously estimated. big trees, mature woodland, mature forest, are far more important. their value is almost infinitely greater. it's very easy to lose that. it's very difficult to get that back. so protecting that value that you have in those large, old,

mature trees is almost incalculable. so you should avoid losing it at almost any cost, regardless of how many trees you might think about planting. those large trees are incredibly important. capturing detailed pictures of what's locked inside each tree, the researchers say, reveals just how vital our existing forests are in the fight against climate change. the american space agency's mars rover perseverance is set to begin dropping samples of rock onto the surface of the red planet later today. the materials have been packaged in small titanium tubes, with the expectation they can be picked up by a future mission and brought home. it's a major milestone in the quest to find out whether there is life on mars. now it's time for a look at the weather with carol.

hello again. at the moment, it looks like as we head towards christmas weekend, it is going to turn milder. the highest chance of snow is going to be on higher ground across the far north of scotland. today, we have sunshine and showers. there is some snow around but again, it's in the highest it's on the highest ground in scotland. and as we go through the day, you'll find the cloud will continue to break up in the south—east and most of us will have a dry day with some sunshine. we continue with showers across the north and the west. here too, its going to be windy with a risk of gales affecting the far north—west of scotland and temperatures down a touch on where we were yesterday. yesterday, it was 15.9 celsius in rhyl in north wales. today, we're looking at roughly seven to 13. this evening, we start on a dry and clear note, but the cloud will build and then we will see wind coming in from the south—west, pushing northwards and eastwards. persistent rain also coming on across the north and west of scotland and northern ireland and still windy here, still gusting 60 miles an hour

across north—west scotland. temperatures a bit down on last night. tomorrow, this rain takes its time to clear away from the south—east and in the northern half of the country, there will be more cloud closer to this area of low pressure and also some showers. it won't be as windy in the north—west as it's going to be today and these are our temperatures. the average at this time of year is seven in edinburgh, eight in belfast and nine in cardiff and london. on thursday, the overnight rain in england and wales clears, but we have got cloud building and some rain coming in across the south—west. further north, it's a mixture of bright spells, sunshine and showers and not as windy. these are our temperatures. and it's after that as we head towards the christmas weekend that things start to change a bit, in the sense that we have got this weather front moving steadily northwards. as it bumps into the cold air in the north, we could see a period of snow, mostly on the hills. but milder air will follow behind

in the southern areas. it's coming up from the south—west, pushing across our shores, as you can see from the yellows. but you can see cooler conditions for a time in the north and it looks like on sunday, we could see cooler conditions spread further south, but it's a long way off. it's one we're closely watching. generally, the weather will remain a bit unsettled until then.

this is bbc news. the headlines at 11:00. nurses across england, wales and northern ireland are beginning a second day of strikes. the nurses' union wants more talks. ministers say their pay demands are unaffordable. we are not willing to open negotiations about pay because we have an independent review body. that body makes recommendations every year and the government has accepted those. meanwhile — the health secretary will hold last—minute talks with ambulance unions this afternoon — to try to avert a strike scheduled for tomorrow. unions tell mp5 they've had enough. our members are exhausted, there is the highest sickness levels amongst all category of workers in the nhs and the ambulance service. that is

because of the terrible conditions they are being expected to work in. a us congress committee says donald trump should face criminal charges — including insurrection — over the january the sixth riot. donald trump claims its a "partisan attempt" to stop him running for re—election. a 97—year old woman has been given a two year suspended sentence in germany — for her role as a secretary at a nazi concentration camp. music. terry hall, lead singer of the specials, has died at the age of 63. his fellow band members describe him as one of the country's most brilliant singer songwriters.

thank you forjoining us. around 10,000 nhs nurses in england, wales and northern ireland are striking for the second time in less than a week in protest over their pay. in northern ireland at least 3,200 appointments and surgeries were postponed last thursday — all health boards there are affected again today. in england almost 16,000 appointments didn't happen last week, with around a quarter of hospitals and community teams affected. wales saw at least 2,000 appointments and procedures postponed. today, all but one health board in wales will see strike action. but scotland is not affected. nurses there have paused their strike action to vote on a new pay offer. nurses who are on strike will still provide what's described as 'life—preserving' care. but routine services and planned operations are likely to be most affected. the advice is that you should still call 999 if you have an emergency and go to any appointments

unless you've been told not to. meanwhile tomorrow will see ambulance staff walk out in england and wales too. the health secretary will meet with three unions representing paramedics today, to try to avert that strike. there's a warning it'll cause major disruption, at an already challenging time for the nhs, dealing with high levels of flu and covid. the national secretary of the gmb union has told a group of mp5 that ambulance workers that she represents are struggling with the pressures on the nhs. it is absolutely having a devastating impact on our members. frustration, stress, burn—out, exhaustion, low morale, mental health. our members are tired of going to work every day and, in some cases, spending the whole of their shift sat on an ambulance outside an a&e department with the same patient. we have had examples where members have clocked off at the end

of one shifted return the following day to the same patient being on that ambulance with the crew they had left them with the night before. our members went into this profession to become health care professionals, to help the public and provide patient safety. they feel they are being physically prevented from being able to carry out theirjobs prevented from being able to carry out their jobs today. prevented from being able to carry out theirjobs today. and that is because of this knock on impact with hand over delays and waiting times and the fact that patients cannot be safely discharged into hospitals. and when they eventually get to the job they can see on the monitor that somebody has been waiting hours and hours for this call, they don't know what situation they were looking into. they don't know if that individual will still be alive. they have friends and family screaming at them as if it is their fault. these are the very individuals who are not to blame for this situation. our members have taken the steps they have taken to members have taken the steps they have ta ken to vote for members have taken the steps they have taken to vote for action and

this is one of the central parts as to why they are doing this. because we have been raising these issues for years and we have been ignored. let's cross live now to out reporter howard johnson who's at st mary's hospital in paddington in central london. we can see lots of people behind you, who is there with you, howard, and why are they taking this action? there are 15 nurses out here striking. the second strike in less than a week. they are calling on the government to look at this play request and they have asked for 5% above inflation. they are asking the government to come to the table and discuss it because at the moment there is a deadlock between the government and the striking nurses. this sign says, be fair to those who care. another one, overworked and underpaid and always forgotten.

there are nurses striking today who joined during the pandemic as a nurse, under incredibly difficult conditions. what would you like the government to hear from you today, given people are striking here? i given people are striking here? i was initially inspired to care for people. — was initially inspired to care for people, which is why i came into the profession — people, which is why i came into the profession. but the continuous understaffing has caused a huge emotional strain and something needs to change _ emotional strain and something needs to change to help. | emotional strain and something needs to change to help-— to change to help. i have heard from other staff today _ to change to help. i have heard from other staff today saying _ to change to help. i have heard from other staff today saying the - to change to help. i have heard from other staff today saying the nhs - to change to help. i have heard from other staff today saying the nhs is l other staff today saying the nhs is at breaking point, they say there is this massive need for staff to nurse beds, beds available but not enough people to help and people are also being brought in from agencies, which cost a lot of money. what are you seeing as far as stuffing condition, are there enough people helping you when you are at work here? that helping you when you are at work here? �* . helping you when you are at work here? . , . ., , ., . here? at times we have to rely on a lot of help — here? at times we have to rely on a lot of help and _ here? at times we have to rely on a lot of help and a _ here? at times we have to rely on a lot of help and a lot _ here? at times we have to rely on a lot of help and a lot of— here? at times we have to rely on a lot of help and a lot of support - lot of help and a lot of support from _ lot of help and a lot of support

from our— lot of help and a lot of support from our colleagues. we do try and support— from our colleagues. we do try and support each other as much as we can _ support each other as much as we can but _ support each other as much as we can but at — support each other as much as we can. but at some point it gets too much, _ can. but at some point it gets too nruch, it— can. but at some point it gets too much, it gets a lot to deal with. the royal— much, it gets a lot to deal with. the royal college of nursing say in the next 48 hours if they don't hear from the government on the pay situation, if there are no further talks on this, you could potentially as a union go to more strike action injanuary. there is talk from the government they are willing to go months on this without backing down, are we in for tough times ahead when it comes to nursing? taste are we in for tough times ahead when it comes to nursing?— it comes to nursing? we don't want it comes to nursing? we don't want it to no it comes to nursing? we don't want it to go on — it comes to nursing? we don't want it to go on for _ it comes to nursing? we don't want it to go on for any _ it comes to nursing? we don't want it to go on for any longer, - it comes to nursing? we don't want it to go on for any longer, but - it comes to nursing? we don't want it to go on for any longer, but if - it to go on for any longer, but if we have — it to go on for any longer, but if we have to, _ it to go on for any longer, but if we have to, there is no other choice and there's— we have to, there is no other choice and there's nothing we can do but continue — and there's nothing we can do but continue to— and there's nothing we can do but continue to strike even when don't want _ continue to strike even when don't want to _ continue to strike even when don't want to. . ~ continue to strike even when don't want to. . ,, i. ., i. want to. thank you for your discussion _ want to. thank you for your discussion today. _ want to. thank you for your discussion today. this - want to. thank you for your | discussion today. this picket want to. thank you for your - discussion today. this picket line will continue until eight o'clock tonight. we are hearing there will be strike action in solidarity with these striking nurses, and march down to 10 downing street later on this afternoon. back to you in the

studio. ., . g ., this afternoon. back to you in the studio. ., . . ,, this afternoon. back to you in the studio. ., ., ., ,, studio. howard johnson at st mary's hos - ital studio. howard johnson at st mary's hosital in studio. howard johnson at st mary's hospital in central _ studio. howard johnson at st mary's hospital in central london. - let's cross to our wales correspondent tomos morgan who's at university hospital of wales in cardiff. again, what other nurses saying to you there? again, what other nurses saying to ou there? , , . ., . , you there? very similar to what they 'ust told you there? very similar to what they just told howard. _ you there? very similar to what they just told howard. now _ you there? very similar to what they just told howard. now that - you there? very similar to what they just told howard. now that these - just told howard. now that these strikes did start last week and we are on our second one today, nobody wants them to carry on. but from the nurses i have spoken to today, they say they are willing to keep going for as long as it takes to get what they feel is fair for the work they put in, is fairfor the they feel is fair for the work they put in, is fair for the stresses they are put under and to help alleviate potentially, those nursing vacancies. in wales, health is devolved so it is the welsh government that pay for the nhs here. the majority of the nhs budget still comes from westminster. even though the health minister could raise some taxation to raise salaries here, that would be a huge

detriment she says, to other areas across wales. let's cross to some of the nurses, melissa, you are in charge of epilepsy here in cardiff, talk to me how things have changed in terms of staffing and waiting lists over the years?— in terms of staffing and waiting lists over the years? waiting lists are [on . er lists over the years? waiting lists are longer than _ lists over the years? waiting lists are longer than i _ lists over the years? waiting lists are longer than i have _ lists over the years? waiting lists are longer than i have ever - lists over the years? waiting lists| are longer than i have ever known them _ are longer than i have ever known them and — are longer than i have ever known them and i— are longer than i have ever known them and i have worked in epilepsy for 20 _ them and i have worked in epilepsy for 20 years. all of our clinics are cancelled — for 20 years. all of our clinics are cancelled today because of the strike — cancelled today because of the strike i— cancelled today because of the strike. i am filled with dread about being _ strike. i am filled with dread about being here, but know that we need to being here, but know that we need to be here _ being here, but know that we need to be here. . . being here, but know that we need to be here. . , ., being here, but know that we need to be here. ., ., . ., . be here. there was no other choice, i be here. there was no other choice, i assume? — be here. there was no other choice, i assume? no. _ be here. there was no other choice, l assume? no. if— be here. there was no other choice, i assume? no, if you _ be here. there was no other choice, i assume? no, if you think - be here. there was no other choice, i assume? no, if you think about. be here. there was no other choice, i assume? no, if you think about it, j i assume? no, if you think about it, a few years — i assume? no, if you think about it, a few years ago _ i assume? no, if you think about it, a few years ago if — i assume? no, if you think about it, a few years ago if i _ i assume? no, if you think about it, a few years ago if i advertised - i assume? no, if you think about it, a few years ago if i advertised for i a few years ago if i advertised for a few years ago if i advertised for a nursing — a few years ago if i advertised for a nursing post within the department we would _ a nursing post within the department we would get so many applicants. i recently _ we would get so many applicants. i recently advertised for a post and -ot recently advertised for a post and got one _ recently advertised for a post and got one applicant. that is what it is like _ got one applicant. that is what it is like across the nhs, so few filling — is like across the nhs, so few filling vacancies and it is very difficult, _ filling vacancies and it is very difficult, if not impossible. let's move on to _ difficult, if not impossible. let's move on to the _ difficult, if not impossible. let�*s move on to the mental—health side of things, helen and kath, how has the

job change, how has it got harder you say? i job change, how has it got harder ou sa ? . . job change, how has it got harder ou sa ? , , , ., , you say? i guess it is not being able to provide _ you say? i guess it is not being able to provide the _ you say? i guess it is not being able to provide the care - you say? i guess it is not being able to provide the care you . you say? i guess it is not being | able to provide the care you are trained — able to provide the care you are trained to— able to provide the care you are trained to do _ able to provide the care you are trained to do. you _ able to provide the care you are trained to do. you see - able to provide the care you are trained to do. you see people l trained to do. you see people suffer, — trained to do. you see people suffer, your— trained to do. you see people suffer, your patients - trained to do. you see people suffer, your patients suffer, l trained to do. you see people . suffer, your patients suffer, the why do — suffer, your patients suffer, the why do families _ suffer, your patients suffer, the why do families suffer— suffer, your patients suffer, the why do families suffer and - suffer, your patients suffer, the why do families suffer and you i suffer, your patients suffer, the . why do families suffer and you can only give _ why do families suffer and you can only give as — why do families suffer and you can only give as much _ why do families suffer and you can only give as much as _ why do families suffer and you can only give as much as you - why do families suffer and you can only give as much as you can - why do families suffer and you canj only give as much as you can give. the nhs _ only give as much as you can give. the nhs at — only give as much as you can give. the nhs at the _ only give as much as you can give. the nhs at the moment _ only give as much as you can give. the nhs at the moment is - only give as much as you can give. the nhs at the moment is built i only give as much as you can give. j the nhs at the moment is built on goodwill— the nhs at the moment is built on goodwill and — the nhs at the moment is built on goodwill and that— the nhs at the moment is built on goodwill and that goodwill- the nhs at the moment is built on goodwill and that goodwill is - goodwill and that goodwill is running _ goodwill and that goodwill is running out _ goodwill and that goodwill is running out. i— goodwill and that goodwill is running out. i have - goodwill and that goodwill is running out. i have got - goodwill and that goodwill is running out. i have got a - goodwill and that goodwill is i running out. i have got a young family. — running out. i have got a young family. i— running out. i have got a young family. i have _ running out. i have got a young family, i have to— running out. i have got a young family, i have to provide - running out. i have got a young family, i have to provide for- running out. i have got a young i family, i have to provide for them, there _ family, i have to provide for them, there is— family, i have to provide for them, there is too— family, i have to provide for them, there is too much _ family, i have to provide for them, there is too much month _ family, i have to provide for them, there is too much month at - family, i have to provide for them, there is too much month at the i family, i have to provide for them, i there is too much month at the end of the _ there is too much month at the end of the pay — there is too much month at the end of the pay it— there is too much month at the end of the pay. it is— there is too much month at the end of the pay. it is not— there is too much month at the end of the pay. it is notjust _ there is too much month at the end of the pay. it is notjust nurses, i of the pay. it is notjust nurses, postal— of the pay. it is notjust nurses, postal workers, _ of the pay. it is notjust nurses, postal workers, ordinary - of the pay. it is notjust nurses, l postal workers, ordinary people, of the pay. it is notjust nurses, i postal workers, ordinary people, the working _ postal workers, ordinary people, the working class — postal workers, ordinary people, the working class who _ postal workers, ordinary people, the working class who are _ postal workers, ordinary people, the working class who are suffering. i working class who are suffering. there _ working class who are suffering. there is — working class who are suffering. there is money— working class who are suffering. there is money therefore - working class who are suffering. i there is money therefore nurses and there _ there is money therefore nurses and there should — there is money therefore nurses and there should be _ there is money therefore nurses and there should be money— there is money therefore nurses and there should be money there - there is money therefore nurses and there should be money there to i there should be money there to retain— there should be money there to retain the — there should be money there to retain the star. _ there should be money there to retain the star. we _ there should be money there to retain the star. we all- there should be money there to retain the star. we all use i there should be money there to retain the star. we all use the i there should be money there to i retain the star. we all use the nhs as working — retain the star. we all use the nhs as working people. _ retain the star. we all use the nhs as working people, we _ retain the star. we all use the nhs as working people, we all- retain the star. we all use the nhs as working people, we all need i retain the star. we all use the nhs as working people, we all need it l as working people, we all need it and when — as working people, we all need it and when it— as working people, we all need it and when it is— as working people, we all need it and when it is not— as working people, we all need it and when it is not there, - as working people, we all need iti and when it is not there, everyone is going _ and when it is not there, everyone is going to — and when it is not there, everyone is going to suffer. _ and when it is not there, everyone is going to suffer.— is going to suffer. kath, talking about young — is going to suffer. kath, talking about young families, - is going to suffer. kath, talking about young families, you i is going to suffer. kath, talking about young families, you are l is going to suffer. kath, talking | about young families, you are on maternity at the moment but he still decided to come out today? taste maternity at the moment but he still decided to come out today? we need thins decided to come out today? we need

thin . s to decided to come out today? we need things to change. _ decided to come out today? we need things to change. for _ decided to come out today? we need things to change. for my _ decided to come out today? we need things to change. for my family, i decided to come out today? we need things to change. for my family, forl things to change. for my family, for my patients, — things to change. for my family, for my patients, i want to be able to look— my patients, i want to be able to look after— my patients, i want to be able to look after people properly and do what i _ look after people properly and do what i trying to do.— what i trying to do. there isn't enou:h what i trying to do. there isn't enough of _ what i trying to do. there isn't enough of us. _ what i trying to do. there isn't enough of us. you _ what i trying to do. there isn't enough of us. you are - what i trying to do. there isn't enough of us. you are going i what i trying to do. there isn't i enough of us. you are going back in april, have you thought about going back, given the circumstances? financially it is not worth going back _ financially it is not worth going back i— financially it is not worth going back. i care, financially it is not worth going back. icare, i financially it is not worth going back. i care, i love myjob and my patient _ back. i care, i love myjob and my patient so — back. i care, i love myjob and my patient so i — back. i care, i love myjob and my patient so i want to go back but i want _ patient so i want to go back but i want to— patient so i want to go back but i want to be — patient so i want to go back but i want to be able to provide for my family— want to be able to provide for my family and — want to be able to provide for my family and do the job i love and care _ family and do the job i love and care for— family and do the job i love and care for my patients.— family and do the job i love and care for my patients. thank you so much to melissa, _ care for my patients. thank you so much to melissa, helen _ care for my patients. thank you so much to melissa, helen and i care for my patients. thank you so much to melissa, helen and kath. | care for my patients. thank you so i much to melissa, helen and kath. the strike going on until seven o'clock this evening and as howard mentioned as well, they will be more in the new year unless things change. there will be ambulance strikes tomorrow and the maternity unit in wales, and the physiotherapists in wales. in new year they will likely be new industrial action in the nhs departments across wales. it is

departments across wales. it is treat to departments across wales. it is great to hear— departments across wales. it is great to hear those _ departments across wales. it is great to hear those voices and great to see the beautiful baby there, too. the health minister will quince has been speaking this morning. i and the secretary of state have met with the rcn and other unions. and i have said we are very happy to discuss, as has the secretary of state, working conditions and other ways in which we can help to ensure that nurses, and indeed all those staff, the 1.245 million people who work on the agenda for change contract within our nhs. but what we are not willing to do is open negotiations about pay, that's because we have an independent pay review body. that body makes recommendations every year and the government has accepted those recommendations in full, as we did last year. so let's take a quick look at what the dispute is about. and when it comes to pay. the royal college of nursing

is calling for a rise of 5% above the rpi inflation rate, which measures how much prices are going up over time, and is currently higher than 14%. that would mean a pay rise of more than 19%. the government has said that is unaffordable and nhs staff in england and wales have been given an average increase of 4.75%, with the lowest—paid nurses guaranteed a rise of at least £1,400. the average basic pay for full time nurses was just over 34,000 in march 2021, according to a report from the nhs pay review body. to around 37,000 though. joining me now is gracejones, she's a respiratory nurse at the alexandra hospital in redditch and is taking part in strike action. why are you going on strike today? it is for future generations. when i went into nursing we had the course paid for, they had bursaries and that has all been cut. the starting

wage was much less, it still is really low compared to other nurses around europe. it is all for the safety of our patients as well. we need more staff, we do. but we will have to pay for them. we just want the government to look at the pay again and get back to us with that. do you think 19% is realistic? would it be better for the unions to say now that actually they will compromise for a lower level. we have seen in scotland that is potential for compromise there but the gap is huge at the moment? considering what we have done for the last few years, covid and i so “p the last few years, covid and i so up to nine patients a day die from covid. i have had emotional problems since, anxiety. you know, these effects are continuing to go on, we

are still seeing covid patients coming in and they are still not getting any better and we are having the new pandemic, flew. so it is, you know, more and more pressure on us. you know, more and more pressure on us. how long can we go on for. == us. how long can we go on for. -- flu. us. how long can we go on for. -- flu- everyone _ us. how long can we go on for. —— flu. everyone appreciates what you and your colleagues have been doing. especially, the nhs has been underfunded for a long time now. are you at home today, are you worried about what is happening to your patients in your absence? you know, thatis patients in your absence? you know, that is what people will be concerned about won't they? yes. that is what people will be concerned about won't they? yes, it is a concern — concerned about won't they? yes, it is a concern and _ concerned about won't they? yes, it is a concern and i _ concerned about won't they? yes, it is a concern and i note _ concerned about won't they? yes, it is a concern and i note that - concerned about won't they? yes, it is a concern and i note that my i is a concern and i note that my trust will staff the areas where it needs to staff the most and will prioritise those areas. he needs to staff the most and will prioritise those areas.- needs to staff the most and will prioritise those areas. he won't be caettin prioritise those areas. he won't be getting care _ prioritise those areas. he won't be getting care today _ prioritise those areas. he won't be getting care today as _ prioritise those areas. he won't be getting care today as a _ prioritise those areas. he won't be getting care today as a result i prioritise those areas. he won't be getting care today as a result of. getting care today as a result of the strike? —— who. getting care today as a result of the strike? -- who.— getting care today as a result of the strike? -- who. general patients

on general — the strike? -- who. general patients on general wards. _ the strike? -- who. general patients on general wards. it _ the strike? -- who. general patients on general wards. it is _ the strike? -- who. general patients on general wards. it is high - on general wards. it is high dependency units, a&e that are guaranteed to the star. but they will have staff, there are many staff members, older staff who are not striking and they are retiring soon and don't feel the need to. this is for the future generation, this is why we are doing this now. have you and your friends and colleagues thought about leaving the profession as a result of the pay and conditions? i profession as a result of the pay and conditions?— profession as a result of the pay and conditions? i know people who have left recently, _ and conditions? i know people who have left recently, a _ and conditions? i know people who have left recently, a colleague - and conditions? i know people who have left recently, a colleague left| have left recently, a colleague left and became a plumber because there is more money in plumbing. henge and became a plumber because there is more money in plumbing. have you thouuht is more money in plumbing. have you thought about — is more money in plumbing. have you thought about it? _ is more money in plumbing. have you thought about it? i— is more money in plumbing. have you thought about it? i have _ is more money in plumbing. have you thought about it? i have thought - thought about it? i have thought about it, thought about it? i have thought about it. yes- — thought about it? i have thought about it, yes. but _ thought about it? i have thought about it, yes. but it— thought about it? i have thought about it, yes. but it is— thought about it? i have thought about it, yes. but it is my - thought about it? i have thought about it, yes. but it is my life, i about it, yes. but it is my life, nursing is. it is my career. it is everything to me, i couldn't leave it. , , . , ., everything to me, i couldn't leave it. , , . , everything to me, i couldn't leave it. the public relies on people such as yourself. _ it. the public relies on people such as yourself. the — it. the public relies on people such as yourself, the most _ it. the public relies on people such as yourself, the most caring - it. the public relies on people such | as yourself, the most caring people in the community of the last people he would go on strike, i imagine. you must feel a level of desperation

to be in this position? yes. you must feel a level of desperation to be in this position?— to be in this position? yes, i never wanted to — to be in this position? yes, i never wanted to strike, _ to be in this position? yes, i never wanted to strike, it _ to be in this position? yes, i never wanted to strike, it is _ to be in this position? yes, i never wanted to strike, it is not - wanted to strike, it is not something i ever thought of ever doing in my career. but here we are, things need to change and if this is the only way we will get change, we will continue to strike. [30 the only way we will get change, we will continue to strike.— will continue to strike. do you think, will continue to strike. do you think. going _ will continue to strike. do you think, going back— will continue to strike. do you think, going back to _ will continue to strike. do you think, going back to the - will continue to strike. do you | think, going back to the figures that 19% is realistic? have you thought about a figure he would accept as a compromised figure? i will stand by what ever they suggest. if they think it is feasible, then yes. i5 suggest. if they think it is feasible, then yes.- suggest. if they think it is feasible, then yes. suggest. if they think it is feasible, then es. , ., feasible, then yes. is it about the fact that your _ feasible, then yes. is it about the fact that your budget _ feasible, then yes. is it about the fact that your budget is _ feasible, then yes. is it about the fact that your budget is so - fact that your budget is so stretched every month, is it about not being rewarded fairly for the work you do? it is not being rewarded fairly for the work you do?— not being rewarded fairly for the work you do? it is a bit about, not bein: work you do? it is a bit about, not being rewarded _ work you do? it is a bit about, not being rewarded through _ work you do? it is a bit about, not being rewarded through covid - work you do? it is a bit about, not being rewarded through covid and| work you do? it is a bit about, not - being rewarded through covid and the cost of living is going up. gas and electric, you know, iam paying about £300 a month. me living on my own and trying to run a house, it is

impossible. i am always in my overdraft and i know nurses who work five, 12 hour shifts a week in order to pay bills because the cost of living is going up and no one can afford it. ., , ~ , afford it. you said the strikes will continue, rishi_ afford it. you said the strikes will continue, rishi sunak _ afford it. you said the strikes will continue, rishi sunak has - afford it. you said the strikes will continue, rishi sunak has given l afford it. you said the strikes will. continue, rishi sunak has given an interview to the daily mail today saying basically, they will not back down. this could go on for months, you think? do you think your colleagues and you will carry on for months? , ., , ., , months? yes, if that is what needs to happen- — months? yes, if that is what needs to happen- are _ months? yes, if that is what needs to happen. are you _ months? yes, if that is what needs to happen. are you aware - months? yes, if that is what needs to happen. are you aware the - months? yes, if that is what needs | to happen. are you aware the public will be with — to happen. are you aware the public will be with you _ to happen. are you aware the public will be with you for _ to happen. are you aware the public will be with you for that _ to happen. are you aware the public will be with you for that length - to happen. are you aware the public will be with you for that length of i will be with you for that length of time? because at the moment there is public support for the nurses? yes. public support for the nurses? yes, they should — public support for the nurses? yes, they should be _ public support for the nurses? yes, they should be with _ public support for the nurses? yes, they should be with us. _ public support for the nurses? yes, they should be with us. have - public support for the nurses? yes, they should be with us. have your. they should be with us. have your atients they should be with us. have your patients said _ they should be with us. have your patients said that _ they should be with us. have your patients said that to _ they should be with us. have your patients said that to you, - they should be with us. have your patients said that to you, they - patients said that to you, they support you?— patients said that to you, they suuort ou? , ., ., , support you? yes, all of my patients have said they _ support you? yes, all of my patients have said they support _ support you? yes, all of my patients have said they support me, - support you? yes, all of my patients have said they support me, yes. - support you? yes, all of my patients| have said they support me, yes. have ou have said they support me, yes. have you thought — have said they support me, yes. have you thought about _ have said they support me, yes. have you thought about how you would like

the government to approach this now, one suggestion is a one—off payment, would that do it, would that be enough to ease the current you know, a breakdown in relations? that enough to ease the current you know, a breakdown in relations?— a breakdown in relations? that would be something. _ a breakdown in relations? that would be something, but _ a breakdown in relations? that would be something, but that _ a breakdown in relations? that would be something, but that is _ a breakdown in relations? that would be something, but that is not - be something, but that is not enough. no, that is not enough. it has to be a fundamental change in your view? has to be a fundamental change in our view? , ., , has to be a fundamental change in your view?— has to be a fundamental change in ourview? , ., , . . ., your view? yes, it does. we are one ofthe your view? yes, it does. we are one of the lowest _ your view? yes, it does. we are one of the lowest paid _ your view? yes, it does. we are one of the lowest paid nurses _ your view? yes, it does. we are one of the lowest paid nurses in - your view? yes, it does. we are one of the lowest paid nurses in europe. i of the lowest paid nurses in europe. grace jones, of the lowest paid nurses in europe. gracejones, we understand your position. thank you for talking to us, respiratory nurse in redditch. thank you. us, respiratory nurse in redditch. thank you-— and — in the past hour the train drivers' union aslef has announced a fresh strike on thursday 5th january.

and 6th seventh january, meaning even more extensive disruption across the whole week. you can find out more about all the strikes, including a full rundown of which workers are taking industrial action on which dates, on the bbc news website. the us committee investigating the assault on capitol hill on january the sixth last year has unanimously recommended criminal charges against donald trump. they include obstruction of official proceedings, conspiracy to defraud the united states, and inciting an insurrection. the committee's recommendation is non—binding, and it's now up to the usjustice department to decide whether to prosecute the former president. 0ur north america correspondentjohn sudworth sent this report. with the routine of a recorded vote, america finds itself in uncharted territory. mr schiff? aye. mr aguilar? aye. mr aguilar, aye. a congressional committee recommended that a us president face criminal charges. as it delivered a damning

assessment of donald trump's last days in office. he lost the 2020 election and knew it, but he chose to try and stay in office through a multipart scheme to overturn the results and block the transfer of power. shouting replaying key pieces of video evidence, the committee summed up the case built over the last 18 months. that the president not only incited the january 6th attack, but he knew his claim of a stolen election was false. i did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen and putting out this stuff, which i told the president wa i only need 11,000 votes. fellows, i need 11,000 votes, gimme a break. that he pressured officials to rig the vote. this was a fraudulent election. and refuse to call off the mob, or to condemn the violence afterwards. so, go home, we love you. you're very special. the committee can't force prosecutors to act on its recommendations but donald trump is already facing multiple investigations.

the pressure is rising on a candidate running for re—election while being accused of trying to subvert the last one. john sudworth, bbc news, washington. professor scott lucas is from the university college dublin. thank you forjoining us. is there a danger with this decision by the democrats that it reignites support for donald trump, do you think? first that it reignites support for donald trump, do you think?— trump, do you think? first of all, we need to _ trump, do you think? first of all, we need to clear _ trump, do you think? first of all, we need to clear this _ trump, do you think? first of all, we need to clear this wasn't - trump, do you think? first of all, we need to clear this wasn't just l we need to clear this wasn'tjust the democrats, despite the house republican leaderjohn mccarthy calling for the house, theyjoined a unanimous recommendation yesterday to refer the criminal charges to the justice department. in terms of whether that this is a danger, this

is a legal case, first of all. you have to look at the facts and the evidence collected, over 1000 interviews, video and audio documents. if that supports the case that donald trump did aid an insurrection, obstructed an investigation and defraud the us government over the 2020 election, it is an obligation to pursue that legal case. do not do so would be negligent, there is no accountability or legitimacy if you allow the attempt to subvert democracy go unchecked. will the justice department take up that investigation? it has been issuing its own investigation since september. there now intersects with the committee's evident so it will have to make a legal determination as to whether it is sufficient to file criminal charges. but what is the political calculation? if this had been a year ago thejustice department would have been hesitant to pursue criminal charges. there

are a lot of supporters out there who scream conspiracy and hoax who will try to tarnish any type of proceeding. but a year later, not only because of the evidence we have seen, but because donald trump point blank failed to deliver for the republicans in the november midterm elections, the calculus has changed. there are a lot of established republicans who are peeling away from him and don't feel any need to protect him and that may give more space to thejustice department to say in the end, this merits a criminal prosecution. do say in the end, this merits a criminal prosecution. do you know when we are _ criminal prosecution. do you know when we are likely _ criminal prosecution. do you know when we are likely to _ criminal prosecution. do you know when we are likely to hear- criminal prosecution. do you know when we are likely to hear from i criminal prosecution. do you know| when we are likely to hear from the justice department and how long the investigation will take? trump supporters have always said this is politically motivated, pure politics? politically motivated, pure olitics? , , , politically motivated, pure olitics? ,, , ., politics? the trump supporters would sa that, politics? the trump supporters would say that. so — politics? the trump supporters would say that. so we _ politics? the trump supporters would say that, so we can _ politics? the trump supporters would say that, so we can put _ politics? the trump supporters would say that, so we can put that _ politics? the trump supporters would say that, so we can put that of- politics? the trump supporters would say that, so we can put that of the - say that, so we can put that of the side. the question of when we get criminal charges or if we do will probably take months. there is such a mass of evidence which is there,

more than 1000 interviews to be gone through to go through the transcripts of those at the very start in the tens of thousands of documents to review. then talk about those who have not come forward to testify, who have refused subpoenas and what the justice department says, you have to talk to us now. then you have to put the case together. when you swing at the wannabe king, you best not miss. they will want to make sure that cases ironclad. we are looking at months. but it is possible before the end of 2023 that we will see donald trump finally be facing criminal charges for all of the activity before, during and after the capitol hill attack. and activity before, during and after the capitol hill attack.— the capitol hill attack. and that will affect whether _ the capitol hill attack. and that will affect whether he - the capitol hill attack. and that will affect whether he does - the capitol hill attack. and that i will affect whether he does stand again. professor scott lucas, thank you forjoining us.

ukraine's president — volodymyr zelensky — has made an unannounced visit to the eastern city of bakhmut, which has seen intense fighting between ukrainian and russian forces. the city has been a key target for russian forces in the donetsk region, and has been left partially destroyed. meanwhile, president putin has ordered the strengthening of the country's borders and of social control within russia. he said security services should quickly identify traitors and saboteurs, and should also ensure the safety of people living in the parts of ukraine that moscow claims as its own. earlier vladimir putin visited belarus — russia's close ally. the trip triggered speculation russia might want belarus to join a new ground offensive against ukraine. the kremlin denies this. but ukraine says it's tightening the defence of its border with belarus overfears russia may attack from there. with me is olga ivshina — from the bbc russian service. just first of all on belarus, how likely is it that it could be drawn in with all this talk of a fresh offensive in january, in with all this talk of a fresh offensive injanuary, february? {lin

offensive in january, february? on the one offensive injanuary, february? (in the one hand, putin has told us everything is possible. on the other hand,it everything is possible. on the other hand, it seems at the moment such involvement is unlikely due to a combination of factors. one of them being mr lukashenko having trying to avoid that. it seems he doesn't have much force, yet he has certain units, but their total number is not huge. while mr putin has a tough choice, he can put more pressure on mr lukashenko to try to get him involved in this war. but he is his last close ally. on the other hand, if he doesn't force him to go into this war, then he can still use belarus, its territory, its infrastructure for the needs of his own army. and when we see that, mr

putin stays on that thin line at the moment. in minsk, they announced they would be morejoint moment. in minsk, they announced they would be more joint exercises between belarus ian and the russian military, which may signify that mr putin will be able to keep pressure on the ukrainian belarus border and keep some amount of troops guarding the border. in a way that is one of the border. in a way that is one of the objectives he wants to achieve. in terms of morale over this period were seen, these ongoing visit by president zelensky trying to shore up president zelensky trying to shore up public support and trying to win international support and keep momentum, what is your sense at the moment? we have seen these missile strikes in the last few days, huge problems with energy supplies, too? yes, but on the other hand people are getting more and more used to that. it is a horrible reality but it seems their morale is rising up, you know? because of the tremendous

challenges at the moment for the ukrainian nation, but on the other hand people do know why they suffer, they do know this is a war for their independence and it seems it keeps them very much motivated which is something mr putin has to address almost every day. the morale of his trips, the morale of its nation because some russians asking questions, why are all soldiers dying? what are they dying for? the ukrainian nation doesn't have this question, they find the answer for the very sake of their existence as a state and nation. for them, unlike the russian side, the answer is very easy and that is why the morale, it seems is almost an and shaking. it went down a little bit during the first few days and weeks of the strikes, but now they are more defiant. a , strikes, but now they are more defiant. , .

some breaking news onjeremy clarkson, you might know that he wrote a sun newspaper column that was widely condemned for his comments on the duchess of sussex, megan marco. he said that he hated the duchess of sussex, and that has become the independent press organisation's most complained about article, with over 17,500 complaints so far. that article just came out on friday last week, already over 17,500 complaints, the most complained about beach going to ipso. of course, he has apologised for causing offence, but many people taken aback by those comments, including, as i said, his own daughter. more than 10,000 british airways passengers have had long—haul flights cancelled due to what the airline calls "a technical issue". dozens of transatlantic flights to london were serious delayed or cancelled overnight — and at least 20 departures are grounded today because planes

and crews are out of position. so what does this mean for travel plans — and what rights do passengers have? simon calder, travel correspondent of the independent, can explain. just how bad is it today? i am afraid it has _ just how bad is it today? i am afraid it has been _ just how bad is it today? i am afraid it has been pretty - just how bad is it today? i —n afraid it has been pretty bad just how bad is it today? i —n afraid it has been pretty had over an eight, and it is going to get worse before it gets better. for about four to six hours, at the crucial time when the wave of overnight flights from the us, from canada, from the caribbean, from mexico, were about to depart, the british airways flight planning system basically broke down. that is absolutely critical to allowing aircraft to depart. some got out in time, but actually many of them were delayed by typically four hours. they are gradually coming on in dribs and drabs to london heathrow and london gatwick, but there were some hoi the crew ran out of hours,

they wouldn't legally be allowed to complete the flight, so they would either cancel the flight or delayed by 2a hours. does a pretty equivalent statuses. that has meant there aren't planes at heathrow and gatwick this morning to fly people out on their planned trips, i have counted so far 20 cancellations on british airways flights from heathrow, these are all long haul flights. of course, people who are stuck, if they have connections, whether that is to other uk airports or further afield, whether that is to other uk airports orfurther afield, that whether that is to other uk airports or further afield, that will cause them problems too. five days before christmas, there is not much space for passengers who need to be booked on other flights. for passengers who need to be booked on otherflights. we for passengers who need to be booked on other flights.— on other flights. we also have strikes coming _ on other flights. we also have strikes coming up, _ on other flights. we also have strikes coming up, don't - on other flights. we also have strikes coming up, don't we? | on other flights. we also have i strikes coming up, don't we? in terms of how it is looking, for those of us who might be looking to travel over the next week or so, what would you say?—

travel over the next week or so, what would you say? those british airwa s what would you say? those british airways passengers _ what would you say? those british airways passengers first _ what would you say? those british airways passengers first of - what would you say? those british airways passengers first of all, - airways passengers first of all, anybody who is disrupted is entitled to get flown to their destination as soon as possible on any airline that is available. if you're coming back to the uk, you're going to see pressure on heathrow. we know the uk border force will be on strike, members of the pcs union, heathrow as well as gatwick and manchester and glasgow, birmingham and cardiff from friday onwards. now, heathrow airports, where you are going to get the biggest pressure, is already told british airways and virgin atlantic, stop selling tickets for inbound flights, because we are worried about the pressure. normally, when you get very serious disruption, say on tuesday, you'd expect extra flights to be put on, but it may be that you actually can't get those flights reinstated in order to bring people back to heathrow because there is simply too many crowds. i hope, of course, that

passengers will be able to be flown either on british airways are, as the law requires, and any other airlines with empty seats, but it could be very messy, and yes, for all passengers there's the possibility that you could be held for a long time when come into those six airports, not affecting any other uk airports. they say they have contingency plans in operation, and we know the military will be checking passports as well. thank ou ve checking passports as well. thank you very much — checking passports as well. thank you very much indeed. _ lets go to the bbc sport centre. good morning. england's cricketers are celebrating a historic series win in karachi — comfortably sealing the victory in the final test by 8 wickets. they've become the first visiting team to win three matches

in a series in pakistan. it took england less than a0 minutes on the fourth day to complete their 3—0 clean sweep. just 55 runs were needed to reach their target of 167. ben duckett finished with 82 not out, while ben stokes was unbeaten on 35, the two left—handers sharing an unbroken partnership of 73. what a transformation under captain stokes, this is their ninth win in 10 matches with him in charge. the way in which we speak and i have spoken since done this role is almost not worrying about the result, just going out and playing, expressing ourselves as a team, and trying to give ourselves the best chance of winning and always thinking about that. i guess, winning 3—0 proves that it can work on the odd occasion. in the last few hours the newly crowned world champions argentina have arrived back home in buenos aires following their victory over france in sunday's final. thousands of fans lined

the streets to welcome the players in the early hours of the morning and those celebrations will definitely be lasting for the rest of the day as the president has declared tuesday as a national bank holiday to celebrate argentina's first world cup triumph since 1986 and their third in total. england women's football manager says the "whole world has changed around her" after an incredible year which saw the lionesses win the euros in the summer. not only did the lionesses win the euros in england this summer, but they have gone the whole past 12 months unbeaten, but, she says there's more to come. we will stay grounded. we know what we are working on. when we have a big win, we still know it's just a moment. it's a very nice moment, but we still have to improve a couple of things and we have to keep using our super strengths. if we lose one time, it's not the end of the world. it is part of top sports. after more than a month away because of the world cup, premier league teams are back

in action in the league cup this evening. two of them are newcastle and bournemouth whose match has been brought forward by 2a hours due to some medical services going on strike. the two teams haven't played competitively since november 12th. the wait for this game has been quite long from our perspective. so we're very keen to get back to it, get back to the action, get back to competitive games. the friendlies are good for what they are but they're a very different game. i know the players are the same. speaking to the international [ads that have come back, they're very keen to get the season restarted again which is a great thing for me to hear and for everyone connected with newcastle to hear too. the british and irish lions fly—half finn russell willjoin bath after next yea r�*s world cup, signing from top 1a side racing 92. the 30—year—old has been in paris for the past four seasons, having scored almost 300 points in his 66 matches in france, since joining from glasgow in 2018. he said, "to be able to join such an historic, well—supported club is really exciting".

and a shortlist of six contenders has been announced for the 2022 bbc sports personality of the year award. head over to the bbc sport website for more details. the nominees are gymnast jessica gadirova, footballer beth mead, curling's eve muirhead, cricketer ben stokes, snooker player ronnie o'sullivan and athlete jake wightman. voting will be open during the show on bbc one tomorrow night. back to you. as we've been reporting this morning, nurses across england, wales and northern ireland are back out on strike again today, and there's more industrial action to come this week — this time by thousands of ambulance staff. the first will begin tomorrow — the 21st of december — and there will be another strike again next week. around 10,000 ambulance staff

will be involved in the industrial action, including paramedics. the strikes will impact wales and most services in england, apart from the east of england. health minister, will quince, was asked about reports that military personnel being draughted in to help cover for striking ambulance staff wouldn't be able to use blue lights when driving ambulances. what they won't be able to do is break the law. they will not, so driving through red lights, they won't be able to turn blue lights on. they will be there to drive ambulances in a support capacity for individual trusts. now although what they can't do is put the blue lights on and go over the speed limit, they will play a hugely important role in supporting paramedics and ambulance staff in getting people to emergency departments as quickly as possible. and they are part of broader contingency plans. i'm joined now by the former conservative mp, ben howlett, who works cross—party as a health policy adviser and ceo of the policy institute, curia uk. thank you forjoining us. do you

think that the nurses and ambulance workers are justified in going think that the nurses and ambulance workers arejustified in going on strike, or do you support the government's position that they are not prepared to back down? we have had a long-standing _ not prepared to back down? we have had a long-standing position - not prepared to back down? we have had a long-standing position in - not prepared to back down? we have had a long-standing position in this | had a long—standing position in this country for everyone to have a right to strike, so i'm not going to disagree with that at all. the government does face being stuck between a rock and a hard place on this issue, between being able to give the strikers what they want and also agreeing with its own pay bodies, which is an independent process. the government either has to find money to pay that, and at the moment it seems like the extraordinarily large amounts of money are the pressures that are on the treasury at the moment, or alternatively we need to carry on with the process, and they seem to have made the decision that they will carry on with the process and we are seeing union is going on strike. d0 we are seeing union is going on strike. ,. we are seeing union is going on strike. i. , , . we are seeing union is going on strike. , , . ., strike. do you support that position from the government, _ strike. do you support that position from the government, i _ strike. do you support that position from the government, i know - strike. do you support that position from the government, i know you l

strike. do you support that position - from the government, i know you work for a cross—party organisation but you were a conservative mp? thea;r you were a conservative mp? they commonly — you were a conservative mp? they commonly are _ you were a conservative mp? they commonly are stretched, - you were a conservative mp? the: commonly are stretched, to you were a conservative mp? ti;e:1: commonly are stretched, to be honest. if there is additional funding to be found, ed robbie has to be found by increases in taxes or increases in borrowing. with inflation at the level it is at the moment, the government has come up with the conclusion that they have. if i was still an mp, i would properly sell back the government of that position, however, what the government has not done is adequately bring the reunions around the table to have that open conversation with them. this is not just about money, this is about terms and conditions of nurses, it is in a prestigious —— an atrocious place to work at the nhs at the moment, so, going out meeting people at hospitals, seeing picket lines around the country, there wanted to be heard notjust around pay but around the conditions they are facing at the moment, and frankly, in most hospitals, they are quite

swamped. is in most hospitals, they are quite swam ed. , . in most hospitals, they are quite swamed. , . , in most hospitals, they are quite swamed. , :, , :, in most hospitals, they are quite swamed. , . ., ' swamped. is a disgrace that after 12 ears of a swamped. is a disgrace that after 12 years of a tory _ swamped. is a disgrace that after 12 years of a tory government - swamped. is a disgrace that after 12 years of a tory government the - swamped. is a disgrace that after 12 years of a tory government the uk | swamped. is a disgrace that after 12 | years of a tory government the uk is in this position where basic fundamental safety and care is not being given to the public? that is ultimately the government's fault, surely? ultimately the government's fault, surel ? , :. ultimately the government's fault, surel ? , :, . , ultimately the government's fault, surel ? ,:, . , :, ultimately the government's fault, surel ? ., :, . ~ surely? the government has to take resonse surely? the government has to take response ability _ surely? the government has to take response ability for _ surely? the government has to take response ability for this. _ surely? the government has to take response ability for this. i _ surely? the government has to take response ability for this. i don't - response ability for this. i don't think the messaging they've been using that it is labour's fault for the strikes is cutting through, in fact it is quite ridiculous. i'm now working with the last minister to actually introduce a workforce plan, that was under gordon brown, for goodness sakes, and i remember as an mp in 2015 in 2016 calling for a proper workforce strategy to be put into place. it is onlyjust taken until a couple of months ago for the no chancellor and the then health secretaryjeremy had to make the commitment to introduce one. there is a long way for the government to

90, is a long way for the government to go, and this is frankly an issue of their own making.— go, and this is frankly an issue of their own making. obviously people link that partly _ their own making. obviously people link that partly to _ their own making. obviously people link that partly to brexit _ their own making. obviously people link that partly to brexit in - their own making. obviously people link that partly to brexit in terms i link that partly to brexit in terms of the shortage of staff and recruitment and training programmes and how much money the government is willing to pay on that. in terms of what we should be doing now, the health secretary supposed to be meeting some of the ambulance workers representatives today, what do you think the government should do? you have said that you do not think that government has done enough to sort this out? thea;r think that government has done enough to sort this out? they really haven't. enough to sort this out? they really haven't- they _ enough to sort this out? they really haven't. they have _ enough to sort this out? they really haven't. they have not _ enough to sort this out? they really haven't. they have not even - enough to sort this out? they really haven't. they have not even talked | haven't. they have not even talked about pay, which is a ridiculous process. the union can also bring in acas, so in terms of what they can do today, the government said they are speaking with ambulance unions talk minimum service. we don't even know yet whether or not ambulance workers will end up turning up in order to help those people who may have a stroke tomorrow, which is

horrendous. what the government has to do is come up with a very coherent plan. they cannotjust continually rely on the military to bail them out when they need to. the military have only said that it's only a short—term thing. a long term contingency plan is needed, and i spent there won't be many christmas lunches eating over the christmas holidays. ministers will have to be around the table at the cath that offers to come up with more secure contingency plans. is a offers to come up with more secure contingency plans-— contingency plans. is a former conservative _ contingency plans. is a former conservative mp, _ contingency plans. is a former conservative mp, heidi - contingency plans. is a former conservative mp, heidi feel i contingency plans. is a former - conservative mp, heidi feel about the way your party is running the country right now, and we are in the position where if you have a heart or accident right now, they're a very long delays? this is utterly appalling, isn't it, that the countries in the situation? i don't even call it _ countries in the situation? i don't even call it anything _ countries in the situation? i don't even call it anything else - countries in the situation? i don't even call it anything else other. even call it anything else other than a shambles, frankly. these contingency plans that have been put

into place are ill thought through, not much has been lured through the pandemic as a result of this due to multiple ups and downs of government leadership, so they have got to get a grip of this. if they have any chance of keeping a grip of what looks like a very small number of conservative mps in the next action, they need to pull their fingers out and win back the public, which for now does not seem to be the case. rishi sunak said in the mail today that he is not going to back down, what you think of that position? i think events will end up unfolding, which means that this could be a different conversation if we are talking about real drivers, because public sympathy towards nurses is astronomical. parents who have had two bouts of cancer with a pandemic and have had their lives saved by the nhs, it is a very warmly regarded institution. being unable

to offer up an above pay recommendation increase is frankly absurd, and that will ultimately be usurped on, whether that is pressure the inboxes of mps or whether it comes from the strikers themselves. the nhs is currently unworkable and what is going on. the nhs is currently unworkable and what is going on-_ what is going on. thank you very much indeed. _ terry hall, best known as the frontman of the ska band the specials, has died aged 63. the singer—song writer found fame in the 1970s and 80s with hits like "ghost town", "gangsters" and "too much too young", and also enjoyed chart success with "fun boy three". mark savage looks at his life. # why must you record my phone calls? the specials emerged from coventry at the end of the 1970s,

bringing black and white musicians together at a time of racial tension. # a message to you, rudy.# fronted by terry hall, their music was upbeat but socially conscious, and their first seven singles made the top ten, culminating in this. # this place is coming like a ghost town # bands won't play no more # ghost town, released in 1981 as riots spread and unemployment soared across the uk, and terry hall's downbeat delivery captured the despondency. # this town is coming like a ghost town # why must the youth fight against themselves?

after ghost town, hall formed another band, fun boy three. their songs were often lighter, but hall didn't shy away from more difficult topics. one song dealt with his abduction and sexual abuse at the age of 12. # it ain't what you do, it's the place that you do it. and that's when my mental health problems appeared and in that period, the only thing that i could do was take valium, at 1a, and that's not great. it really isn't good. # you're wondering now what to do now you know this is the end. although the episode left hall with lifelong depression, music was a solace. # enjoy yourself while you're still in the pink. he rejoined the specials in 2008 and a decade later, the band scored their first ever number one album. hall said it was a long time coming.

in a statement on monday night, the band said hall had died after a brief illness. neville staple, who sang with him in both the specials and fun boy three, said it was a big shock. it's really hit me hard. we fronted the specials and fun boy three together, making history. i'd like to send my condolences to his wife and family. missed, he will be, but his legacy, from a golden age of political pop, will never be forgotten. terry hall, who has died at the age of 63. we are nowjoined by paul willo, the official biographer of the specials and a good friend of the late terry hall. thank you very much forjoining us, very sad news today, i'm sorry, i know you are a close friend. what

are your thoughts this morning? if you look around the social media and things like that, you can see what everyone is thinking. it is a tidal wave of love for the man. that is how i remember him, such a kind warm gentleman. how i remember him, such a kind warm ientleman. :. how i remember him, such a kind warm ientleman. :, . : ~ i. :, gentleman. how far back did you go, and what was — gentleman. how far back did you go, and what was he _ gentleman. how far back did you go, and what was he like _ gentleman. how far back did you go, and what was he like in _ gentleman. how far back did you go, and what was he like in his _ gentleman. how far back did you go, and what was he like in his earlier i and what was he like in his earlier days? ma; and what was he like in his earlier da s? y , , and what was he like in his earlier das? y , ,: and what was he like in his earlier das?g , :, days? my very first concert for me was seeing _ days? my very first concert for me was seeing him — days? my very first concert for me was seeing him in _ days? my very first concert for me was seeing him in 1980, _ days? my very first concert for me was seeing him in 1980, and i- days? my very first concert for me was seeing him in 1980, and i can| was seeing him in 1980, and i can describe as walking into the venue and the specials were like an explosion going off in your face. and the specials were like an explosion going off in yourface. it stuck with me. over the years we skirted around different projects, i did the first sort of pocketbook biography of the band in the mid—90s, which are then expanded when they got back together 2009, and from then on been quite good.

and what was he like as a person? away from the stage and stuff like that he was wickedly funny, wickedly, his humour, we laugh a lot about his humour, because he was so good at the one—liners. he was such a caring, warm man. yet so much time for all his fans, he would stop further photographs and autographs or chat. that is exactly what it was like. he is the voice of a generation, and people understand that. away from that, he was very private with his family. just a lovely man. aha, private with his family. just a lovely man-— private with his family. just a lovely man. a very distinctive presence _ lovely man. a very distinctive presence musically, - lovely man. a very distinctive presence musically, how- lovely man. a very distinctive presence musically, how do l lovely man. a very distinctive i presence musically, how do you lovely man. a very distinctive - presence musically, how do you some that up, what was it about him in the way that he work that gave us

that musical legacy? iie the way that he work that gave us that musical legacy?— the way that he work that gave us that musical legacy? he is unique. i think he is very _ that musical legacy? he is unique. i think he is very unique. _ that musical legacy? he is unique. i think he is very unique. he - that musical legacy? he is unique. i think he is very unique. he is i that musical legacy? he is unique. i think he is very unique. he is one i think he is very unique. he is one of those voices that when you hear him sing, i could only be that one person. that makes him stand out. he would take on topics that you've talked about with sexual abuse, racism, he would stand up for what he believed in. ijust think that is what he did, once he believed in something steadfast, he stuck to his guns and he would tell it publicly. we are going to miss that sort of approach to life, i think, really. did you know that he was not well? yes. did you know that he was not well? yes, , :,, did you know that he was not well? yes. , :,, . :, ,, did you know that he was not well? yes. , :,, . :, ~ . yes. so, people around him knew that this was on the — yes. so, people around him knew that this was on the horizon _ yes. so, people around him knew that this was on the horizon potentially, i this was on the horizon potentially, or was it a shot? it

this was on the horizon potentially, or was it a shot?— or was it a shot? it was a shock because of— or was it a shot? it was a shock because of the _ or was it a shot? it was a shock because of the speed _ or was it a shot? it was a shock because of the speed of - or was it a shot? it was a shock because of the speed of it, i or was it a shot? it was a shock i because of the speed of it, really. we knew there would be some problem to get round, that we were looking to get round, that we were looking to the future, and the speed of it really has ta ken to the future, and the speed of it really has taken us all back. what really has taken us all back. what is the new — really has taken us all back. what is the new remember— really has taken us all back. what is the new remember most i really has taken us all back. what is the new remember most about him going forward? —— the thing you remember most about him. it going forward? -- the thing you remember most about him. it was 'ust beini in the remember most about him. it was 'ust being in the car, — remember most about him. it was 'ust being in the car, playing i remember most about him. it was 'ust being in the car, playing with i remember most about him. it was 'ust being in the car, playing with the i being in the car, playing with the kids, things like that, he took the time out to play with the kids, that's the kind of man he was. thank ou ve that's the kind of man he was. thank you very much _ that's the kind of man he was. thank you very much for — that's the kind of man he was. thank you very much for sharing _ that's the kind of man he was. thank you very much for sharing your i you very much for sharing your thoughts with us today, and sorry to all those who knew and remembered terry hall today. jewish communities around the world are celebrating hanukkah — an eight—day festival of lights centered around prayer, candles and gifts.

naomi choy smith reports. from the world's largest menorah in new york to germany to war—torn ukraine, jews around the world [it the traditional candelabra marking the hanukkah holiday. in kyiv, frequently plunged into darkness by russian attacks on ukraine's energy grid, the jewish festival of lights has taken on new significance as candles and lanterns provide a glimmer of hope in the darkness. translation: the enemy wanted to leave us two i days ago without light, without water, without heating. today we lit the biggest menorah in europe. ukraine had one of the largest jewish communities in europe before the war. now, most have fled to countries like hungary, where these refugees spent their first hanukkah away from their homeland. in our home, we have very beautiful hanukiah of silver.

but from the other side, here we have such a community, such a warm atmosphere of hanukkah. hanukkah is full ofjoy for children, with eight days of gifts, games and fried foods like doughnuts. the light is the main theme, because tradition says the ceremonial lamp in a jerusalem temple burned for eight days despite only having enough oilfor one. the holiday commemorates a jewish uprising against religious oppression in the second century. and as the first ever menorah in the white house was lit, president biden talked of oppression in the 21st century. today we must all say, clearly and forcefully, anti—semitism and all forms of hate and violence in this country have no safe harbour in america, period. and with anti—semitism on the rise,

hanukkah is a time for reflection and an expression of pride injewish heritage. now it's time for a look at the weather, with carol. hello again. at the moment, it looks like as we head towards the christmas weekend, it is going to turn milder. the highest chance of snow is going to be on higher ground across the far north of scotland today. what we have is sunshine and showers. there is some snow around, but again, it's in the highest ground in scotland. and as we go through the day, what you'll find is the cloud will continue to break up in the southeast and most of us will have a dry day with some sunshine. now we'll continue with showers across the north and the west here, too. it's going to be windy. the risk of gales affecting the far north west of scotland and temperatures down a touch on where we were yesterday. so yesterday it was 15.9 celsius in rhyl in north wales.

today we're looking at roughly seven to about 13. through this evening and overnight we start in a dry and a clear note, but the cloud will build and then we'll see some rain coming in from the south west pushing northwards and eastwards. persistent rain also coming in across the north and west of scotland and northern ireland and still windy here, still gusting 60 miles an hour across northwest scotland. temperatures a little bit down on last night. tomorrow, this rain takes its time to clear away from the southeast. and in the northern half of the country, there'll be more cloud. we're closer to this area of low pressure, and also some showers. it won't be as windy in the northwest as it's going to be today. and these are our temperatures, 7 to 11 degrees. the average at this time of the year is seven in edinburgh, eight in belfast and nine in cardiff and london. now in thursday, the overnight rain in england and wales clears. but we've got cloud building and some rain coming in across the south west, further north it's a mixture of bright spells, sunshine and showers and not as windy. these are our temperatures, six to about 12 degrees. and it's after that as we head

towards the christmas weekend that things start to change a bit in the sense that we've got this weather front moving steadily northwards. as it bumps into the cold air in the north, we could see a period of snow, mostly on the hills, but milder air will follow on behind into southern areas. it's coming up from the southwest, pushing across our shores, as you can see from the yellows. but you can see the cooler conditions for a time in the north. and then it looks like on sunday we could see some cooler conditions spread that bit further south. but it's a long way off. it's one we're closely watching, and generally speaking, the weather will remain a bit unsettled until then.

this is bbc news — the headlines: nurses across england, wales and northern ireland are holding a second day of strikes. the nurses' union wants more talks. ministers say their pay demands are unaffordable. we have an independent pay review body for a reason. the government has looked at their recommendation which is £1,400, or an equivalent of 4.72%, and accepted those recommendations in full. meanwhile — the health secretary will hold last—minute talks with ambulance unions this afternoon to try to avert a strike scheduled for tomorrow. unions tell mps they've had enough... our members are exhausted, there's the highest sickness levels amongst all category of workers in the nhs and the ambulance service. and that is because of the terrible conditions they are being

expected to work in. members of aslef are to hold a fresh strike on january the 5th members of aslef are to hold a fresh strike onjanuary the 5th as part of their long dispute about pay. a 97—year old woman has been given a two—year suspended sentence in germany for her role as a secretary at a nazi concentration camp. an article byjeremy clarkson about the duchess of sussex has attracted over 17,500 complaints to the press regulator ipso. that's more than any other in its history. around 10,000 nhs nurses in england, wales and northern ireland are striking for the second time in less than a week in protest over their pay.

in northern ireland at least 3,200 appointments and surgeries were postponed last thursday — all health boards there are affected again today. in england almost 16,000 appointments didn't happen last week, with around a quarter of hospitals and community teams affected. wales saw at least 2,000 appointments and procedures postponed. today — all but one health board in wales will see strike action. but scotland is not affected. nurses there have paused their strike action to vote on a new pay offer. nurses who are on strike will still provide what's described as 'life—preserving' care. but routine services and planned operations are likely to be most affected. the advice is that you should still call 999 if you have an emergency though and go to any appointments unless you've been told not to. meanwhile tomorrow will see ambulance staff walk out in england and wales too. the health secretary will meet with three unions representing paramedics today, to try to avert that strike. there's a warning it'll

cause major disruption, at an already challenging time for the nhs, dealing with high levels of flu and covid. our reporter howard johnson, who's at st mary's hospital in paddington in central london told me earlier about the political reaction to these industrial actions. there are 50 nurses out here striking. the second strike in less than a week. they are calling on the government to look at this pay request and they have asked for 5% above inflation. they are asking the government to come to the table and discuss it because at the moment there is a deadlock between the government and the striking nurses. this sign says, be fair to those who care. another one, overworked and underpaid, always forgotten. a chant we've heard quite a lot. there are nurses striking today who joined during the pandemic as a nurse, under incredibly difficult conditions.

what would you like the government to hear from you today, given people are striking here? i was initially inspired to care for people, which is why i came into the profession. but the continuous understaffing has caused a huge emotional strain on us and something needs to change to help us. i have heard from other staff today saying the nhs is at breaking point, they say there is this massive need for staff to nurse beds, beds are available but not enough people to help and people are also being brought in from agencies, which cost a lot of money. what are you seeing as far as staffing condition, are there enough people helping you when you are at work here? at times we have to rely on a lot of help and a lot of support from our colleagues. we do try and support each other as much as we can. but at some point it gets too much, it gets a lot to deal with. the royal college of nursing say

in the next 48 hours if they don't if there is no further talks on this, you could potentially as a union go to more strike action injanuary. there is talk from the government they are willing to go months on this without backing down, are we in for tough times ahead when it comes to nursing? we don't want it to go on for any longer, but if we have to, there is no other choice and there's nothing we can do but continue to strike even when don't want to. thank you for your discussion today. this picket line will continue until 8pm today. we are hearing there will be strike action in solidarity with these striking nurses, and march down to 10 downing street later on this afternoon. more now on tomorrow's ambulance strikes. joining me now is rachel harrison, the national secretary of the gmb union who gave evidence at the healh select

committee only an hour ago. many of the gmb's members are ambulance workers who will be striking tomorrow. thank you forjoining us. why are ambulance workers, some of the most key workers in our society going on strike? , . , . . strike? they are frustrated a feelin: strike? they are frustrated a feeling like _ strike? they are frustrated a feeling like they _ strike? they are frustrated a feeling like they are - strike? they are frustrated a i feeling like they are physically unable to deliver the standards of patient care they want to because of the under resourcing and understaffing of the surface. but this legal dispute is about pay. erosion of their pay over the last 12 years has meant many of our ambulance service workers in a variety of roles are leaving the service for better paid jobs with better working conditions elsewhere. so at the heart of this dispute is pay, but working conditions are also very important to all of our members. very important to all of our members-— very important to all of our members. :, : , . , members. how much is an acceptable fiiure? members. how much is an acceptable figure? gmb — members. how much is an acceptable figure? gmb has _ members. how much is an acceptable figure? gmb has not _ members. how much is an acceptable figure? gmb has not put _ members. how much is an acceptable figure? gmb has not put a _ members. how much is an acceptable figure? gmb has not put a figure i members. how much is an acceptable

figure? gmb has not put a figure on i figure? gmb has not put a figure on it. we figure? gmb has not put a figure on it- we have — figure? gmb has not put a figure on it. we have asked _ figure? gmb has not put a figure on it. we have asked for _ figure? gmb has not put a figure on it. we have asked for the _ figure? gmb has not put a figure on i it. we have asked for the government to come to the table, to listen to what we have got to say and to make us an offer. we will take that offer back to our members and it will be the members who decide if it is a sufficient offer. what is falling down here is the government are refusing to talk to us about pay. what have you been offered until now? ~ . �* , :,' now? we haven't been offered an hini now? we haven't been offered anything on — now? we haven't been offered anything on pay _ now? we haven't been offered anything on pay other- now? we haven't been offered anything on pay other than i now? we haven't been offered i anything on pay other than what the pay review recommendation was, that was imposed on our members in october. we have said it is insufficient considering the decade of real terms losses. also the cost of real terms losses. also the cost of living crisis, the pandemic and the massive understaffing issues of our members are facing. mani; the massive understaffing issues of our members are facing.— the massive understaffing issues of our members are facing. many of the ublic will our members are facing. many of the public will sympathise _ our members are facing. many of the public will sympathise with _ our members are facing. many of the public will sympathise with nhs i public will sympathise with nhs staff, but it will be extremely worried about tomorrow's action. if you have a heart attack, if you have a stroke, will you get an ambulance?

i would like to reassure the public that gmb representatives and local teams around the country have been working around the clock with local ambulance employers to reach agreement on what exemptions and derogations will look like, to ensure that emergency cover is in place at a local level. but ensure that emergency cover is in place at a local level.— place at a local level. but our ambulance — place at a local level. but our ambulance is _ place at a local level. but our ambulance is basically i place at a local level. but our ambulance is basically only i place at a local level. but our- ambulance is basically only called out for emergencies, it is the definition of emergency work? that is art of definition of emergency work? that is part of the _ definition of emergency work? trisgit is part of the problem, with the demands on the system, demands for ambulance services has far outstripped resources which have been put into the ambulance service. a high percentage of calls are not what we would consider emergency or life and limb. tomorrow will be about four the employers to determine what is life and limb cover and that is what our members will be sent to. it cover and that is what our members will be sent to.— will be sent to. it will not reassure _ will be sent to. it will not reassure the _ will be sent to. it will not reassure the public- will be sent to. it will not reassure the public if- will be sent to. it will not reassure the public if it i will be sent to. it will notj reassure the public if it is will be sent to. it will not i reassure the public if it is a patchwork service determined

locally, people will not know what to do if they are seriously not well, if there is a fall? if somebody is seriously not well, continue to contact 111 or 999 as you would in normal circumstances. arrangements have been put in place to make sure emergency cover is available. the important thing to bearin available. the important thing to bear in mind, people are not able to get ambulances today, people are waiting hours for ambulances. they are waiting hours on the back of ambulances waiting to be discharged at hospitals. that is happening today and we are not on strike today. we will do everything in our power to make sure life and limb cover is covered tomorrow. our members don't want to cause any more additional to patient safety standards than what they are facing today. pare standards than what they are facing toda . : , :. standards than what they are facing toda . : ,. :. standards than what they are facing toda . : :, :, :, :. today. are you worried? if tomorrow eo - le today. are you worried? if tomorrow people have — today. are you worried? if tomorrow people have serious _ today. are you worried? if tomorrow people have serious issues - today. are you worried? if tomorrow people have serious issues and i today. are you worried? if tomorrow people have serious issues and they| people have serious issues and they don't get an ambulance and the delays are even longer than they are now, they are already above where

they are supposed to be, if people lose their lives as a result of the strike action, would that be on your conscience? it strike action, would that be on your conscience?— conscience? it is definitely not on our members' _ conscience? it is definitely not on our members' conscience. - conscience? it is definitely not on our members' conscience. these| conscience? it is definitely not on i our members' conscience. these are people out there trying to deliver patient care but are being prevented from so. gmb has new information, which we will be writing to the secretary of state about which shows the increase in hand over delays has resulted in an increase in patient deaths. any patient that lie at the government's door and not the members, the ones out there trying to deliver the care they need. what i am most worried about is if this government continue to refuse to speak to gmb and the other health unions about the workforce issue and that the centre of that, pay, thousands and thousands more workers will leave the nhs and none of us will leave the nhs and none of us will be able to access the care when we need it. pare will be able to access the care when we need it— we need it. are you involved in talks with _ we need it. are you involved in talks with the _ we need it. are you involved in talks with the health _ we need it. are you involved in talks with the health secretaryj talks with the health secretary today? i

talks with the health secretary toda ? . , , talks with the health secretary today?_ what - talks with the health secretary today?_ what | - talks with the health secretary i today?_ what i expecting today? i am, yes. what i expecting today? i am, yes. what i expecting to come out _ today? i am, yes. what i expecting to come out of— today? i am, yes. what i expecting to come out of that? _ today? i am, yes. what i expecting to come out of that? is _ today? i am, yes. what i expecting to come out of that? is it _ today? i am, yes. what i expecting to come out of that? is it about i to come out of that? is it about managing tomorrow or will it address the fundamental question? we managing tomorrow or will it address the fundamental question?— the fundamental question? we have been tau . ht the fundamental question? we have been taught to _ the fundamental question? we have been taught to a _ the fundamental question? we have been taught to a 30 _ the fundamental question? we have been taught to a 30 minute - the fundamental question? we have been taught to a 30 minute meeting with the secretary of state to discuss emergency cover and arrangements for tomorrow. talks have been ongoing for weeks with local employers and local union reps and those agreements are now in place. what i'm calling on the secretary of state to do is to use the meeting today to talk to them unions about pay, put an offer on the table that we can take back to our members. the table that we can take back to our members-— the table that we can take back to our members. :, , :, . our members. some unions in scotland have agreed — our members. some unions in scotland have agreed 7.596. _ our members. some unions in scotland have agreed 7.5%. is _ our members. some unions in scotland have agreed 7.596. is that _ our members. some unions in scotland have agreed 7.596. is that the _ our members. some unions in scotland have agreed 7.596. is that the kind i have agreed 7.5%. is that the kind of figure you think would be an acceptable level? if of figure you think would be an acceptable level?— of figure you think would be an acceptable level? if we were offered 7.596 acceptable level? if we were offered 7.5% we acceptable level? if we were offered 7-5% we would _ acceptable level? if we were offered 7.596 we would take _ acceptable level? if we were offered 7.596 we would take that _ acceptable level? if we were offered 7.596 we would take that back- acceptable level? if we were offered 7.596 we would take that back to - acceptable level? if we were offered 7.596 we would take that back to our} 7.5% we would take that back to our members. we are a member led union and we will members on any offer made. it will be them that decide whether it is a sufficient offer or not. ., ~' whether it is a sufficient offer or not. ., ~ ., ., .,

not. you think around that level would be reasonable? - not. you think around that level would be reasonable? what - not. you think around that level would be reasonable? what we| not. you think around that level - would be reasonable? what we have asked for is — would be reasonable? what we have asked for is something _ would be reasonable? what we have asked for is something that - asked for is something that recognises a decade of lost earnings that recognise the cost of living pressures our members are facing. most of all, what we are asking for is for them to genuinely listen to our concerns with regards retention of this workforce. there is no point having recruitment initiatives for nurses, ambulance service workers under the category of workers if they are leaving in their thousands. the government has it within their control to stop that happening. it started with pay and workforce reform right across the board. how much is brexit _ reform right across the board. how much is brexit responsible for the lack of workforce? i know you gave evidence today saying some of your drivers leave a shift and find the same patient is in the back of the ambulance because they cannot be admitted and that is about bed availability throughout the hospital system? availability throughout the hospital s stem? , ~ �* availability throughout the hospital s stem? , ~�* , , availability throughout the hospital sstem? ,,., ., system? gmb members do a lot more than drive ambulances. _ system? gmb members do a lot more than drive ambulances. we _ system? gmb members do a lot more than drive ambulances. we have -

than drive ambulances. we have paramedics and technicians and care assistants and call centres and dispatch. there is frustration felt across the whole of the workforce. they are leaving in their thousands because they can get better paid work, less stressful work elsewhere and they now have options open to them. they will continue to leave and whilst they are containing to leave and we have 133,000 vacancies across the nhs, waiting times for operations and services will continue to increase. flan operations and services will continue to increase.- operations and services will continue to increase. can i ask you very quickly. _ continue to increase. can i ask you very quickly. if— continue to increase. can i ask you very quickly, if the _ continue to increase. can i ask you very quickly, if the health - very quickly, if the health secretary comes to this meeting with a 7.5% offer, would you call off the strike? a 7.596 offer, would you call off the strike? ~ ., , , , ., strike? we would suspend some action so we could fully _ strike? we would suspend some action so we could fully consult _ strike? we would suspend some action so we could fully consult the _ so we could fully consult the members on that offer. our members will be the ones that decide whether it is a good offer or a bad offer. 0k, nationalsecretary it is a good offer or a bad offer. 0k, national secretary of the gmb union, thank you forjoining us and hopefully we will be in touch throughout the day. thank you.

we will say goodbye to viewers on bbc two, but we will continue our coverage on the bbc news channel. nurses have been striking today — let's take a quick look at what the dispute is about. on the issue of pay: the royal college of nursing is calling for a rise of 5% above the rpi inflation rate, which measures how much prices are going up over time and is currently higher than 14%. that would mean a py rise of more than 19%. the government has said that is unaffordable and nhs staff in england and wales have been given an average increase of 4.75%, with the lowest—paid nurses guaranteed a rise

of at least £1,400. the average basic pay for full time nurses was just over 3a,000 in march 2021, according to a report from the nhs pay review body. the government says that figures has increased now to around 37,000. iam happy i am happy to discuss working conditions and how we can ensure nurses and all staff, the millions of people who work on the agenda for change contract within our nhs. but what we are not willing to do is open negotiations about pay. that is because we have an independent pay review body. the body recommends every year and that government has accepted the recommendations in full, as we did last year. let's speak now to layla mccay who's director of policy at the nhs confederation — which represents health managers.

thank you forjoining us. where do you think the balance ofjudgment lies on these disputes, ambulance workers tomorrow, nurses today? are they being unreasonable, it unaffordable to ask for above inflation pay rises or anything vaguely equal to inflation pay rises? it vaguely equal to inflation pay rises? , i, vaguely equal to inflation pay rises? , ., _ , i, vaguely equal to inflation pay rises? , ., _ , ., ., vaguely equal to inflation pay rises? _ , ., ., ., ., vaguely equal to inflation pay rises? _ ., ., ., ., rises? it is a symptom of a lot of stress within _ rises? it is a symptom of a lot of stress within the _ rises? it is a symptom of a lot of stress within the system. - rises? it is a symptom of a lot of. stress within the system. because this sort of decision to strike is not one that any health worker would make lightly. it is a complex situation. we are seeing 133,000 vacancies right now and it is making it very challenging to work within the system. it is making it hard to have recruitment and retention. what we are hearing is the expression of that by these workers and it is incumbent upon the government to listen and to come to a sensible resolution. listen and to come to a sensible resolution-_ listen and to come to a sensible

resolution-— listen and to come to a sensible resolution. �* , ., �* , ., resolution. but they don't seem to be willin: resolution. but they don't seem to be willing to _ resolution. but they don't seem to be willing to budge, _ resolution. but they don't seem to be willing to budge, rishi - resolution. but they don't seem to be willing to budge, rishi sunak. resolution. but they don't seem to i be willing to budge, rishi sunak has said in the daily mail today they are not going to shift. there is potentially months of strikes ahead, do you think the government position can hold? i do you think the government position can hold? ~ , , can hold? i think it is very difficult — can hold? i think it is very difficult and _ can hold? i think it is very difficult and this - can hold? i think it is very difficult and this holding l can hold? i think it is very - difficult and this holding pattern doesn't feel very sustainable at the moment. we hearfrom health leaders across the whole system and they are telling us they are concerned. obviously there will be every effort made to prioritise an urgent and life—saving care, as happened last week. but as strikes continue, that does become more challenging and people are worried there is a growing risk to patients. clearly a resolution has to be found here and it really is incumbent on the government to sit down with the trade unions and figure out what that resolution can be. i trade unions and figure out what that resolution can be.— trade unions and figure out what that resolution can be. i have 'ust soken to that resolution can be. i have 'ust spoken to the fi that resolution can be. i have 'ust spoken to the head i that resolution can be. i have 'ust spoken to the head offl that resolution can be. i have 'ust spoken to the head of the i that resolution can be. i have just spoken to the head of the gmb i that resolution can be. i have just . spoken to the head of the gmb union is said if there was a 7.5% offer fabulous workers they would look at

putting it to members to potentially suspend the strike tomorrow. in your view is that likely at all because we have seen scotland go in that direction? it we have seen scotland go in that direction? , ., . ., ., direction? it is not clear at the moment. _ direction? it is not clear at the moment. the _ direction? it is not clear at the moment, the government - direction? it is not clear at the moment, the government has| direction? it is not clear at the - moment, the government has not entered into discussions around pay. but what we're hearing from the unions is, that is what they are for. so we cannot sit here in the stalemate and just expect that to continue forever while patients suffer. ., ., ., , , continue forever while patients suffer. ., ., ., ,, , suffer. how dangerous is this osition suffer. how dangerous is this position now. _ suffer. how dangerous is this position now, do _ suffer. how dangerous is this position now, do you - suffer. how dangerous is this position now, do you think, l suffer. how dangerous is this i position now, do you think, with ambulance staff going on strike tomorrow, nurses today, people will be really worried? we heard the minister say avoid unnecessary risky behaviour, but for people worried about health, an elderly person falling, heart attacks and strokes, serious emergencies, how worried are you about people being treated properly? for you about people being treated ”roerl ? ., you about people being treated --roerl ? ., , properly? for those people in the most life-threatening _ properly? for those people in the most life-threatening of-

properly? for those people in the l most life-threatening of situations, most life—threatening of situations, negotiations are that those people will still continue to receive that support as quickly as possible. do ou support as quickly as possible. do you think they will, though? at i support as quickly as possible. do | you think they will, though? at the moment, you think they will, though? at the moment. with _ you think they will, though? at the moment, with the _ you think they will, though? at the moment, with the huge _ you think they will, though? at the moment, with the huge pressures| you think they will, though? gilt he: moment, with the huge pressures on the system, that will be challenging. the most life—threatening of cases will be the one that will be prioritise. it will be a question of those who are less life—threatening but still require support and the extent to which those are going to be supported are still being negotiated as we speak. there is a lot of uncertainty at the moment and it will vary around the country from place to place, but certainly health care leaders are so keen to see a resolution found so people are getting the care they need and when they need it, is a very difficult and concerning situation. if a resolution is not found and this action continues into the new year, the pressure will rise even further and things will become more challenging and more risky. thank ou ve challenging and more risky. thank you very much _ challenging and more risky. thank

you very much indeed. _ we have also seen transport services affected. )meanwhile train drivers across 15 rail companies have announced fresh strike action on the 5th january. members of the aslef union will walk out in a long—running row over pay, with the union saying drivers voted overwhelmingly to take action. this latest strike comes between those already announced by the rmt union, which run between the 3rd and lith and 6th and 7th january. you can find out more about all the strikes, including a full rundown of which workers are taking industrial action on which dates, on the bbc news website. good afternoon. england's cricketers are celebrating a historic series win in karachi —

comfortably sealing the victory in the final test by 8 wickets. they've become the first visiting team to win three matches in a series in pakistan. it took england less than a0 minutes on the fourth day to complete their 3—0 clean sweep. just 55 runs were needed to reach their target of 167. ben duckett finished with 82 not out, while ben stokes was unbeaten on 35, the two left—handers sharing an unbroken partnership of 73. what a transformation under captain stokes, this is their ninth win in 10 matches with him in charge. the way in which we speak and i have spoken since i've done this role is almost not worrying about the result, just going out and playing, expressing ourselves as a team, and trying to give ourselves the best chance of winning and always thinking like that. i guess, winning 3—0 proves that it can work on the odd occasion. in the last few hours the newly crowned world champions argentina have arrived back home

in buenos aires following their victory over france in sunday's final. thousands of fans lined the streets to welcome the players in the early hours of the morning and those celebrations will definitely be lasting for the rest of the day as the president has declared tuesday as a national bank holiday to celebrate argentina's first world cup triumph since 1986 and their third in total. england women's football manager says the "whole world has changed around her" after an incredible year which saw the lionesses win the euros in the summer. not only did the lionesses win the euros in england this summer, but they have gone the whole past 12 months unbeaten, but, she says there's more to come. we will stay grounded. we know what we are working on. when we have a big win, we still know it's just a moment. it's a very nice moment, but we still have to improve a couple of things and we have to keep using our super strengths. if we lose one time, it's not the end of the world.

it is part of top sports. the british and irish lions fly—half finn russell willjoin bath after next yea r�*s world cup, signing from top iii side racing 92. the 30—year—old has been in paris for the past four seasons, having scored almost 300 points in his 66 matches in france, since joining from glasgow in 2018. he said, "to be able to join such an historic, well—supported club is really exciting". back to you. a court in germany has given its verdict in the case of a 97—year—old woman, accused of complicity in the holocaust. irmgard furcher has been given a two a year suspended sentence. she worked as a secretary at the stutthof concentration camp in what is now poland. our europe regional editor, paul moss has been following this story. what is the background to this? she

is, she said 97 years old but she was a teenager during the war and she was hired to be a secretary at the concentration camp. still 65,000 --eole the concentration camp. still 65,000 people were — the concentration camp. still 65,000 people were murdered. _ the concentration camp. still 65,000 people were murdered. there - the concentration camp. still 65,000 people were murdered. there were l the concentration camp. still 65,000 people were murdered. there were a j people were murdered. there were a mixture ofjewish people, russians and partisans. 10,000 died while they were there and the prosecution argued that while being a secretary she ensured the smooth running of an operation which led to all these deaths, these murders. the defence argued throughout the trial she did not know what was happening, she had not know what was happening, she had no idea, she wasjust not know what was happening, she had no idea, she was just a secretary. they brought the judges to the old concentration camp, the ruins which you can still go to and visit. the historian showed that where she was sitting, where her office was, irmgard furcher could see what was happening. forthat irmgard furcher could see what was happening. for that reason the judges found her guilty of what they called a cruel and malicious murder of prisoners at the camp and she has

been given a two—year suspended sentence, which is all the prosecution ever asked for. what ha--ened prosecution ever asked for. what happened in _ prosecution ever asked for. what happened in the _ prosecution ever asked for. what happened in the actual _ prosecution ever asked for. what happened in the actual trial? irmgard furcher said very little all the way through, she was silent for most of it. the testimony of the survivors was heard, very few were still alive. survivors was heard, very few were stillalive. some survivors was heard, very few were still alive. some died during the trial but they had a chance to explain that the prosecution described where the absolute horrors of life in the camp. people are gassed, people were murdered and many died of diseases during their time there because of the appalling conditions. the trial was largely an opportunity for them to testify and to have their case heard. and right at the end irmgard furcher said she was sorry for what had happened at the camp, she regretted being there. but at no point did she accept any responsibility or guilt. this but at no point did she accept any responsibility or guilt.— responsibility or guilt. this has attracted a _ responsibility or guilt. this has attracted a lot _ responsibility or guilt. this has attracted a lot of _ responsibility or guilt. this has attracted a lot of attention, . responsibility or guilt. this has| attracted a lot of attention, this case? it attracted a lot of attention, this case? . , , attracted a lot of attention, this case? ,,, attracted a lot of attention, this case? , , case? it has, partly because she is the first woman _ case? it has, partly because she is the first woman for _ case? it has, partly because she is the first woman for many - case? it has, partly because she is the first woman for many decades| case? it has, partly because she is l the first woman for many decades to go on trial in connection with the

holocaust. the prosecution suggested this could be the last big nazi trial. let's be honest, we are talking about events that happened 80 years ago, most of the perpetrators and victims are now dead. it was the test dummy, also the fact they were trying to establish what seemed like a fairly low level worker having some responsibility in the holocaust. that is controversial, it is about establishing it is about more than the people who did the actual killing. anyone involved in the operation of the holocaust was part of it and that is what the prosecution will say they established.— prosecution will say they established. she is facing a two-year— established. she is facing a two-year suspended - established. she is facing a - two-year suspended sentence? it is established. she is facing a _ two-year suspended sentence? it is a token, it is two-year suspended sentence? it is a token. it is a — two-year suspended sentence? it is a token, it is a symbolic— two-year suspended sentence? it is a token, it is a symbolic sentence - two-year suspended sentence? it is a token, it is a symbolic sentence at. token, it is a symbolic sentence at the end of a symbolic trial. she is extremely unlikely to go to prison. she is 97 years old and it is a two—year suspended sentence. she would have to commit another crime to get the two—year sentence imposed. it wasn't to see her in it,

but to establish guilt and establish responsibility. but to establish guilt and establish responsibility-— but to establish guilt and establish responsibility. other survivors, are they supportive — responsibility. other survivors, are they supportive of— responsibility. other survivors, are they supportive of that? _ responsibility. other survivors, are they supportive of that? i - responsibility. other survivors, are they supportive of that? i don't - they supportive of that? i don't know if any _ they supportive of that? i don't know if any have _ they supportive of that? i don't know if any have been - they supportive of that? i don't know if any have been quoted l they supportive of that? i don't. know if any have been quoted as they supportive of that? i don't - know if any have been quoted as yet after the verdict was heard, but they wanted to have the opportunity to speak out in court and to see her face justice. to speak out in court and to see her facejustice. that to speak out in court and to see her face justice. that is why these very, very old people were forced to relive these appalling events in their lives. relive these appalling events in their lives-— relive these appalling events in their lives. . ~ , ., , . their lives. thank you very much indeed. ukraine's president volodymyr zelensky has made an unannounced visit to the eastern city of bakhmut, which has seen intense fighting between ukrainian and russian forces. the city has been a key target for russian forces in the donetsk region, and has been left partially destroyed. meanwhile, president putin has ordered the strengthening of the country's borders and of social control within russia. he said security services should quickly identify traitors and saboteurs — and should also ensure the safety of people living in the parts of ukraine that moscow claims as its own. earlier vladimir putin visited belarus — russia's close ally.

the trip triggered speculation russia might want belarus to join a new ground offensive against ukraine. the kremlin denies this. but ukraine says it's tightening the defence of its border with belarus overfears russia may attack from there. our kyiv correspondent hugo bachega said there are reports russia ould be preparing forfurther offensive action and using belarus as part of its training. what we are hearing from the authorities is that they say russia could be planning another major ground offensive. there are reports that thousands of russian troops are now in belarus, they are being trained there. officials say that russia has been training 200,000 conscripts and that this training is going to end in february and they believe that this is when this new major offensive could happen. i think what officials here are saying is they believe this new offensive could be launched from belarus. remember that in the early stages of

the war, russian troops invaded ukraine from belarus. they try to seize kyiv, they failed. authorities are saying this could happen again. western officials are saying they are not seeing any signs yet to suggest that this is being planned ljy suggest that this is being planned by russia. they haven't seen any kind of movement in belarus. but in kyiv, authorities are saying this is what they fear and again, they are asking for more weapons because they say they need more help to defend the country. let's have a look at the country. let's have a look at the weather. it isa it is a mild afternoon coming up and quite a lot of sunshine around but it is not dry everywhere. close to an area of low pressure to the north—west of the uk will see lots of showers for the north and west of scotland. one or two for northern ireland and one or two for both england and wales with the driest

weather for central and eastern areas. lots of sunshine around on temperatures peaking at 1a in london. it is a mild afternoon. overnight we get a band of rain developing in cross inn in wales and pushes eastwards in time. showers continue to affect parts of scotland and northern ireland. for most of us the breeze prevents a frost, so frost free for most. tomorrow, the rain starts across england and wales, moves eastwards and sunshine will follow, so an improving weather picture for england and wales. scotland and northern ireland, a day of sunshine and showers and the showers move frequent across the north and west of the country where it will still be quite blustery but it will still be quite blustery but it stays mild. temperatures for most between nine and ii it stays mild. temperatures for most between nine and 11 degrees. that is the latest. hello, this is bbc news. the headlines: nurses across england, wales and northern ireland are holding a second day of strikes. the nurses' union wants more talks. ministers say their pay demands are unaffordable.

meanwhile, the health secretary will hold last—minute talks with ambulance unions this afternoon to try to avert a strike scheduled for tomorrow. -- it is —— it is not clear whether they will try to avert a strike scheduled for tomorrow. members of the train drivers' union aslef are to hold a fresh strike on thursdayjanuary 5th, part of their long—running dispute about pay. a 97—year old woman has been given a two year suspended sentence in germany, for her role as a secretary at a nazi concentration camp. an article byjeremy clarkson about the duchess of sussex has attracted over 17,500 complaints. the press regulator ipso says that's more than any other in its history. let's return to our top story. around 10,000 nhs nurses in england, wales and northern ireland are striking for the second time in less than a week in protest over their pay. we can speak with saffron cordery, the interim chief executive

of nhs providers. thank you very much indeed. how worrying is it for patients who need care that nhs nurses are on strike today, and ambulance workers are on strike tomorrow? it is today, and ambulance workers are on strike tomorrow?— strike tomorrow? it is fair to say that this is _ strike tomorrow? it is fair to say that this is a _ strike tomorrow? it is fair to say that this is a really _ strike tomorrow? it is fair to say that this is a really challenging l that this is a really challenging time for patients in the public thinking about whether they are able to access care, but it is also really worrying time and challenging time for staff and trust leaders across the nhs. i think it is fair to say that you trust leaders are doing everything they can to ensure patient safety, but it's going to be a difficult week. we know that trusts are dealing with low levels of staff in emergency departments, and they are thinking really carefully about not just what today brings, but what the next couple of days bring, because with the avion staff on strike tomorrow, that will bring more added pressures across the whole of the nhs.—

the whole of the nhs. there are already stuffing _ the whole of the nhs. there are already stuffing pressures, - the whole of the nhs. there are already stuffing pressures, we l the whole of the nhs. there are - already stuffing pressures, we know that, which can be critical if there are ambulance delays. tomorrow, there are local agreements in force, out there? if you have chest pain, if you're worried about a stroke, a new dial 999, and you don't get an answer or there is the delay, what do you do? it answer or there is the delay, what do you do?— do you do? it is important that --eole do you do? it is important that people should _ do you do? it is important that people should call _ do you do? it is important that people should call 999 - do you do? it is important that people should call 999 or- do you do? it is important that people should call 999 or 111. l do you do? it is important that - people should call 999 or 111. what we are worried about seeing is too many cars turning up at a&e, is people trying to transport themselves to a&e. that will because big traffic management issues. we do understand that you are going to be deeply concerned. it is absently critical that people use that 999 and iii routes that are available to them in the first instance. i

rememberat the them in the first instance. i remember at the beginning of covid, when my son was ill, i rang my name nine, and i was told it could be ours, and i drove my son to a&e despite the official advice not to. people are going to take the action that they feel is correct for themselves. i that they feel is correct for themselves.— that they feel is correct for themselves. ~ , . ., themselves. i think it is fair to sa that themselves. i think it is fair to say that nhs _ themselves. i think it is fair to say that nhs trusts _ themselves. i think it is fair to say that nhs trusts will - themselves. i think it is fair to say that nhs trusts will be - say that nhs trusts will be preparing for all eventualities, and thatis preparing for all eventualities, and that is the most important thing, that is the most important thing, that they are practised in dealing with emergency situations, it is a situation where staff are not available, so they are putting in place measures to make sure there is appropriate traffic management for the scenario where many people are turning infant cars rather than being taken by ambulances. what

that does mean, of course, is that other services will need to be that does mean, of course, is that other services will need to he stood down, so people who are expecting to have operations and procedures today, tomorrow, will properly already have heard from their hospital that it may have been cancelled. �* hospital that it may have been cancelled-— hospital that it may have been cancelled. �* . cancelled. are you confident that toda and cancelled. are you confident that today and tomorrow _ cancelled. are you confident that today and tomorrow and - cancelled. are you confident that today and tomorrow and in - cancelled. are you confident that today and tomorrow and in the i cancelled. are you confident that - today and tomorrow and in the coming days that if you are seriously ill in this country that these staffing shortages are not going to result in loss of life or acute deterioration? we know that the strikes are bringing additional risk into front line nhs services. it is withdrawal of labour. we completely understand why nhs staff have got to the position that they have got to. what i can only stress is that as with any other emergency situation, we

know that leaders are doing and who they can't put in place the measures with they have as many staff as possible taken from other areas of the hospital and other nhs services so that emergencies can be dealt with. that is the really important thing to remember. what we are talking about here is scaling back the full breadth of nhs services while the strikes happen, so there are in the available staff, the staff who are not striking, to be able to put in place the services that are needed.— able to put in place the services that are needed. what you think about the fact _ that are needed. what you think about the fact that _ that are needed. what you think about the fact that the - that are needed. what you think about the fact that the army - that are needed. what you think about the fact that the army will that are needed. what you think. about the fact that the army will be able to cover ambulances? they will not be able to use the blue light and operate the same way as current ambulance staff. we and operate the same way as current ambulance staff.— and operate the same way as current ambulance staff. we know and we have heard from our— ambulance staff. we know and we have heard from our trust _ ambulance staff. we know and we have heard from our trust leaders _ ambulance staff. we know and we have heard from our trust leaders and - heard from our trust leaders and members that the ambulance services and other nhs services have used the support of the army in the past. been used during covid, for example,

to help with things like establishing the nightingale hospitals, to help vaccinations. there is a role for them. and it is fair to say that it is likely to be a more marginal role, role, so will perhaps be having with nonemergency transport, the kind of transport that does not require exceeding speed limits are going through red lights, which is what blue light services have the privileges to do. it is about what they can do around the edges to fill some of those staffing gaps, rather than replacing mainstream ambulance service staff. by mainstream ambulance service staff. by how much will ambulance cover be cut tomorrow? we by how much will ambulance cover be cut tomorrow?— cut tomorrow? we do not know that et. we cut tomorrow? we do not know that yet- we don't _ cut tomorrow? we do not know that yet. we don't know _ cut tomorrow? we do not know that yet. we don't know that _ cut tomorrow? we do not know that yet. we don't know that until - cut tomorrow? we do not know that yet. we don't know that until the i yet. we don't know that until the day. there's the issue, it is the same with the nurses' strikes, we don't have any people will strike until the day itself. it is fair to say that we'll be waiting to see what happens there, ambulance trusts, the leaders in ambulance

trusts, the leaders in ambulance trusts will be preparing for every eventuality. i trusts will be preparing for every eventuality-— eventuality. i know you cannot comment _ eventuality. i know you cannot comment on — eventuality. i know you cannot comment on the _ eventuality. i know you cannot comment on the politics - eventuality. i know you cannot comment on the politics of. eventuality. i know you cannot i comment on the politics of this, eventuality. i know you cannot - comment on the politics of this, but we have seen nhs staff and public sector salaries for now since the financial crash and not keep pace with inflation. how sustainable is the government's position saying that they are not going to budge or get involved in talks? it is absently _ get involved in talks? it is absently critical _ get involved in talks? it is absently critical that - get involved in talks? it is absently critical that the l absently critical that the government comes round the table to discuss pay. —— absolutely critical. we have seen nhs staff paying fall against inflation dramatically this year, as well as seen the previous levels and undermining of that pay, so it is absolutely critical that the government does, in the table to discuss pay specifically. find the government does, in the table to discuss pay specifically.— discuss pay specifically. and the fact that they — discuss pay specifically. and the fact that they are _ discuss pay specifically. and the fact that they are not _ discuss pay specifically. and the fact that they are not getting i fact that they are not getting involved and saying it is oddly with an independent peabody? i involved and saying it is oddly with an independent peabody?- involved and saying it is oddly with an independent peabody? i think that is a red herring. _ an independent peabody? i think that is a red herring. i _ an independent peabody? i think that is a red herring. ithink— an independent peabody? i think that is a red herring. i think it _ an independent peabody? i think that is a red herring. i think it is _ an independent peabody? i think that is a red herring. i think it is a - is a red herring. i think it is a complete red herring. what we have

seen is that the pay review bodies offer a recommendation on pay, it is not a binding recommendation, the government is at liberty to come to the table on pay, and we would urge to do that. find the table on pay, and we would urge to do that. �* , .. �* the table on pay, and we would urge to do that. �* , ., �* . to do that. and if they don't and we see more strikes _ to do that. and if they don't and we see more strikes in _ to do that. and if they don't and we see more strikes in the _ to do that. and if they don't and we see more strikes in the coming - see more strikes in the coming months, the impact on public safety is going to be huge, isn't itit months, the impact on public safety is going to be huge, isn't— is going to be huge, isn't itit will be incredibly _ is going to be huge, isn't itit will be incredibly difficult. _ is going to be huge, isn't itit will be incredibly difficult. not - is going to be huge, isn't itit will be incredibly difficult. notjust . is going to be huge, isn't itit willj be incredibly difficult. notjust in terms of emergency patients, but in the ability to be able to deal with ongoing routine treatments. we have a waiting list that is already over 7 million men for those routine treatments. we will see significant pressure over the months, the government does not come to the table. . .. government does not come to the table. . ~' ,. , government does not come to the table. . ., ,. , . i'm joined now by gp

and clinical consultant for patient dot info, dr sarahjarvis. i was thinking what should we all be doing if ambulance services are going to be stretched, what would your advice to people be? the good news is that — your advice to people be? the good news is that very _ your advice to people be? the good news is that very coldest _ your advice to people be? the good news is that very coldest weather i news is that very coldest weather seems to have passed, because we know that an awful lot of people were having trips and falls on ice, and it is really important if you do have something like that, if you can, if you are able to get there, to get there under your own steam, rather than going by ambulance. that's because we really want to save ambulances for the most life—threatening conditions, were getting treatment en route to the hospital could save a life. we think about centres or heart attack, stroke, heavy bleeding, where there is a paddle or spurting everywhere, a seizure, or possible anaphylaxis, the most life—threatening kind of allergic reaction where you get sudden swelling of your lips,

tongue, throat, which threatened to choke you, you'll often get shortness of breath or palpitations, you might collapse. if you are very confused, and somebody does not know where they are, you should be seeking it for that as well. ii an seeking it for that as well. if an elderly person _ seeking it for that as well. if an elderly person hasn't _ seeking it for that as well. if an elderly person hasn't followed the kitchen floor, what should they do? —— has a fall on the kitchen floor. they can be a danger in moving people, can there? the they can be a danger in moving people, can there?— they can be a danger in moving people, can there? the can. the real concern is if — people, can there? the can. the real concern is if someone _ people, can there? the can. the real concern is if someone is _ people, can there? the can. the real concern is if someone is a _ people, can there? the can. the real concern is if someone is a possible i concern is if someone is a possible neck injury or an injury to their spine, because that could be disastrous. if you have someone with a broken limb, particularly if someone has fallen and it is their wrist that is a problem, which is very common for older people, then for that i would certainly not recommend calling an ambulance. if with a hip it is more difficult. i hope can be externally rotated, so it looks as if the likes pointing

outwards, and it was shorter than the other like, and in that circumstance it is very difficult to get someone to hospital without using an ambulance. if you can, in other circumstances, call someone who could maybe bring you to the hospital. ii who could maybe bring you to the hosital. , .. . who could maybe bring you to the hosital. ,. . . . who could maybe bring you to the hosital. i. . . , hospital. if you have chest pain centres on _ hospital. if you have chest pain centres on the _ hospital. if you have chest pain centres on the stroke - hospital. if you have chest pain centres on the stroke and - hospital. if you have chest pain. centres on the stroke and you're hospital. if you have chest pain - centres on the stroke and you're not getting reply, any think it might be more useful to get so much for you to the hospital, is it was doing that? i to the hospital, is it was doing that? ., to the hospital, is it was doing that? . ., to the hospital, is it was doing that? . . ., to the hospital, is it was doing that? . . . ., that? i hate that we are living in a society where _ that? i hate that we are living in a society where that _ that? i hate that we are living in a society where that may _ that? i hate that we are living in a society where that may be - that? i hate that we are living in a society where that may be useful. j that? i hate that we are living in a l society where that may be useful. if you feel you have the pressure of an elephant sitting on your chest or a tight band around your chest, feeling sick, the issue with that is that during the course of the trip you may go into cardiac arrest which

could be treated by the ariel service. —— ambulance service. with a stroke, it is very important that you get treatment, we call strokes brain attacks these days. so if there it's issues with movement and speech, not being able to form words, are the wrong words come out, then we talk about the tea of upper back i wouldn't be saying this except in the situation, but i think in this case it is more important to get them to hospital urgently to get the treatment they need. abs, get them to hospital urgently to get the treatment they need. pl, lat get them to hospital urgently to get the treatment they need.— the treatment they need. a lot of these things _ the treatment they need. a lot of these things are _ the treatment they need. a lot of these things are not _ the treatment they need. a lot of these things are not optional, - the treatment they need. a lot of. these things are not optional, they are completely out of control. what about optional behaviour in the next 48 hours? it is christmas party season, alcohol is often the cause

of people to be in a&e, people drink when they drive, what would you say to people about their behaviour in the next 48 hours? i to people about their behaviour in the next 48 hours?— to people about their behaviour in the next 48 hours? i would seriously su: est the next 48 hours? i would seriously suggest that — the next 48 hours? i would seriously suggest that for _ the next 48 hours? i would seriously suggest that for your _ the next 48 hours? i would seriously suggest that for your own _ the next 48 hours? i would seriously suggest that for your own safety - the next 48 hours? i would seriously suggest that for your own safety you j suggest that for your own safety you avoid drinking alcohol as much as you can. it is terrifying what a huge proportion of people in a&e out there as a result of alcohol, particularly at christmas, and what they happen is that one could have been dealt with fairly easily could turn out to be something really serious. please try and avoid alcohol, and please avoid, if you're trying to come up a ladder and fix something, don't put your christmas lights up tomorrow on a ladder with nobody else around.— lights up tomorrow on a ladder with nobody else around. common sense advice, nobody else around. common sense advice. thank _ nobody else around. common sense advice, thank you _ nobody else around. common sense advice, thank you very _ nobody else around. common sense

advice, thank you very much. - nobody else around. common sense advice, thank you very much. there | advice, thank you very much. there is much more on all the health changes we are seeing across the nursing an ambulance service staffing in the next day or two. to date as nurses, tomorrow as it is ambulances. if you want to check and keep across what is going on. terry hall, best known as the frontman of the ska band the specials, has died aged 63. the singer—song writer found fame in the 19705 and 80s with hits like "ghost town", "gangsters" and "too much too young", and also enjoyed chart success with "fun boy three". mark savage looks at his life. # why must you record my phone calls? the specials emerged from coventry at the end of the 19705, bringing black and white musicians together at a time of racial tension.

# a message to you, rudy.# fronted by terry hall, their music was upbeat but socially conscious, and their first seven singles made the top ten, culminating in this. # this place is coming like a ghost town # bands won't play no more # ghost town, released in 1981 as riots spread and unemployment soared across the uk, and terry hall's downbeat delivery captured the despondency. # this town is coming like a ghost town # why must the youth fight against themselves? after ghost town, hall formed another band, fun boy three. their songs were often lighter, but hall didn't shy away from more difficult topics.

one song dealt with his abduction and sexual abuse at the age of 12. # it ain't what you do, it's the place that you do it. and that's when my mental health problems appeared and in that period, the only thing that i could do was take valium, at 14, and that's not great. it really isn't good. # you're wondering now what to do now you know this is the end. although the episode left hall with lifelong depression, music was a solace. # enjoy yourself while you're still in the pink. he rejoined the specials in 2008 and a decade later, the band scored their first ever number one album. hall said it was a long time coming. in a statement on monday night, the band said hall had died after a brief illness.

neville staple, who sang with him in both the specials and fun boy three, said it was a big shock. it's really hit me hard. we fronted the specials and fun boy three together, making history. i'd like to send my condolences to his wife and family. missed, he will be, but his legacy, from a golden age of political pop, will never be forgotten. the people have spoken — thousands of twitter users have voted for elon musk to leave as the boss of the social media platform. we have yet to hearfrom him, but mr musk had said no matter how users vote,

he would abide by the results. it's not known if there's a successor ready to succeed him. meanwhile, the us senator elizabeth warren has also raised concerns about conflicts of interset and potential legal violations for tesla following mr musk�*s takeover of twitter. michelle fleury has more from new york. in a letter to tesla's board, the democratic senator raised questions about whether elon musk�*s behaviour at twitter was harming investors in the electric car company, noting that tesla was not elon musk�*s private plaything. elizabeth warren asked how the board was dealing with conflicts of interest, misappropriation of corporate assets and other actions that she said don't appear to be in the interest of tesla and its shareholders. tesla's stock, you may recall, has fallen sharply since elon musk bought twitterfor $44 billion back in october. meanwhile, another question hangs in the air, will elon musk abide by his own poll? twitter�*s new owner posted an informal poll on sunday asking if he should step down. on monday, the results were in and it shows thatjust over 57% of respondents said yes. although it's not clear who,

if anyone, would want the job. the disgraced hollywood producer harvey weinstein, has been found guilty on three counts of sexual assault against a woman at a second trial in los angeles. the jury acquitted him of charges relating to a second accuser, and failed to reach a verdict in two other cases. weinstein is already serving a prison term after being convicted of rape in new york in 2020. sophie long reports. he was the man who once ruled hollywood, the movie mogul even a—list celebrities referred to as god. but he appeared in court in los angeles a convicted rapist, denying a further seven charges of sexual assault. a much—diminished harvey weinstein sat silently with his head bowed as thejury delivered its verdicts. he was found guilty of raping and sexually assaulting a former model at a beverly hills hotel in 2013. he was found not guilty of sexually assaulting another woman. the jury was unable to reach

a verdict on three other counts, including the rape ofjennifer siebel newsom, who is now married to the governor of california. thejury heard weeks of gruelling, emotional testimony and vitriolic exchanges between weinstein's lawyers and witnesses, who were often visibly distressed. it has caused some to question the treatment of alleged victims of sexual assault and others to commend the courage shown by those who took to the stand. they have demonstrated that empowered and courageous women are able to make powerful men accountable for the injustices that they have inflicted on women. during the course of the trial, in which some 50 women testified, a film dramatising the journalistic investigation that led to his downfall was released. i can still see it, the hotel room beforehand. the cameras quickly pulled focus to the story still unfolding, and the trial of the man who once ruled this town.

men so much want to fight this and say they're crazy, they're lying. it'sjust, like, when is this going to end? and it's not going to end. we're going to keep coming, more and more and more, the more it's a whack—a—mole. the more you do it, the more we're going to speak out. it's not going to stop, so stop doing it. harvey weinstein's conviction in new york not only rocked the entertainment industry. the imprisonment of the legendary producer once thought to be untouchable was a milestone in the #metoo movement and was seen as a win for women around the world. this trial may have been a sequel, but his conviction here is no less important, both to the women who gave evidence and to the more than 80 other accusers who will likely never get their day in court. sophie long, bbc news, los angeles. a study that has "weighed" trees using lasers has revealed

that there is almost twice as much carbon locked into uk forests as previously estimated. the research used a 3d scanning technique on 1,000 trees and found significantly more carbon stored in their trunks and branches. our science correspondent victoria gill reports. even in the cold quiet of winter, this woodland is revealing scientific secrets. we're doing a six hectare area, which is probably one of the largest study areas. researchers are weighing the trees here in wytham wood in oxfordshire, using a laser scanning technique that measures each tree in fine detail. you can see it'sjust a bunch of points, but you can see how we capture the full 3d structure. each laser—scanned point is a dot on a three—dimensional map of a tree, and that's converted into a solid model. this is the measure of each tree's volume, which scientists can use to calculate the amount of carbon that's locked into every inch of trunk and branch. how much does that tree weigh?

this one was about 25 tonnes overall, of which about half of that will be carbon. we have more than almost 1,000 trees that will be nondestructively weighed here with laser and we found significantly more carbon storage in those trees, almost a factor two. so that's very significant. we are not talking about 5% or 10%, it's almost doubling. wytham is a typical uk deciduous woodland in terms of the mix of tree species and age. of course, trees do much more thanjust store carbon, but what this study has done is put a whole new measure on the value that's locked into woodland like this. across the uk, according to the study, woodlands store almost double the amount of planet—warming carbon compared to what was previously estimated. big trees, mature woodland, mature forest, are far more important. their value is almost infinitely greater. it's very easy to lose that. it's very difficult

to get that back. so protecting that value that you have in those large, old, mature trees is almost incalculable. so you should avoid losing it at almost any cost, regardless of how many trees you might think about planting. those large trees are incredibly important. capturing detailed pictures of what's locked inside each tree, the researchers say, reveals just how vital our existing forests are in the fight against climate change. now it's time for a look at the weather. we are looking at showers across the uk, although it was dry earlier on in wales, you can see areas of cloud

into the atlantic, which look set to bring zones of rain across into the uk because the next couple days. it is very kind of picture, was the showers of the across the north—west of scotland, one or two in northern ireland, one or two for them north—west of wales as well. east of scotland is more than likely going to stay dry with hot sunshine around. temperatures ranging from eight in aberdeen and belfast to around 14 in london, we are looking at mild weather. rain starts to develop its roads and river wales, where there is further north—west showers will continue on and off for it stays quite windy, so for most it is a frost free night. temperatures between two and six celsius. rain clears eastwards tomorrow, sunshine follows, further roast west is close to an area of low pressure that is just away the north—west of scotland, will continue to feed in those fairly blustery showers. one or two of this can be heavy, perhaps a limited helm extent, just in one

or two of them. there lyrics i will see a zone of rain moving eastwards across the country. there's a chance this rain across england and wales could be this rain across england and wales could he were developed, and if that happens then the rain could reach a lot further northwards, bringing many of us are zone of wet weather just for a time. bear in mind that could be a little bit of uncertainty just for thursday's forecast, but beyond that there is area of pressure we have over the uk for the moment is currently blocking cold air from moment is currently blocking cold airfrom moving moment is currently blocking cold air from moving southwards. moment is currently blocking cold airfrom moving southwards. as likely as a way, we get this battle zone across the uk, with cold air to the north and mild heir to the size. there is the risk around about the christmas time that we could start to see some snowfall, perhaps disruptive. it is most likely to affect the hills of northern scotland, so it may be worth staying in tune with the weather forecast as we get closer to the christmas period, where's further south temperatures will be dropping. the risk of anything disruptive looks a lot lower. many shares will be falling as rain.

today at one, another day of strike action by nurses, sees picket lines across england, wales and northern ireland. the strikers say urgent care isn't affected, and call on the prime minister to sit down to talks. he can bring this strike to a conclusion before the end of this week. he owes it to this profession. every member of the public in the country so let's do it right now. we are keen to talk, we are engaging with the trade unions. on pay, we have an independent process and we have accepted that in full and, of course, that comes on top of the extra prioritisation of the nhs last year. the nhs confederation says its leaders cannot guarantee patients safety as the current strikes unfold. we'll have more on that. in our other main news today... a 97—year—old former secretary at a nazi concentration camp,