including one where he flicks it over his head, over a defender and volleys it into the back of the net. so he followed that up with success in �*62 and then again in �*70, the only player to win three world cups. so i think it's very easy to explain why he's a legend. he's unquestionably one of the greatest football players that's ever lived. and you have to be a certain age, of course. and i'm one of those people that were lucky enough to see him. my first world cup, i remember, was 1970, that brilliant brazilian side that he was the star of. and he had a profound effect on my love of football. now, we don't really have the access to see the amount of footage that we do in the modern game. even with maradona, we saw quite a lot more than you would do with pele, because obviously not so many matches were filmed. so we didn't see quite so much. and i caught him at the end of his career, but he was still outstanding.

but he could do everything. he was... for me, the three greats in my lifetime, there's pele, maradona and messi. it's difficult to separate them because they play in totally different eras, but all three of them do things that other players, other mere mortals of footballers, can't do. and i think that's what really lifts them above all the others. well, pele is hugely significant in not only the development of football, but also in football itself and the enjoyment of football, which is the most important thing. it's an entertainment business. and he was one of the great entertainers through his pure skill, talent and ability. and he was also a proven goal—scorer. in that sense, he was slightly different, perhaps to someone like maradona and even messi, who were more creative, possibly. but pele was an out and out goal scorer, and he's played a huge part in football. the name pele isjust

synonymous with football. let me bring you the latest from brazil's president, he says that is never been a number ten like m, thank you, pele. that has been posted on brazil's president—elect�*s twitter account, posted on brazil's president—elect�*s twitteraccount, paying posted on brazil's president—elect�*s twitter account, paying tribute to the number ten, so many great players of different countries, argentina where the number ten, there's never been a number ten quite like him, thank you, pele. let's talk to pele�*s official biographer, harry harris. welcome to the programme. looking at that neymar tribute, the programme. looking at that neymartribute, it the programme. looking at that neymar tribute, it encapsulates the

very best of pele on the football field, who says he transformed football into art. you cannot argue with that? ., , ., football into art. you cannot argue with that? ., �* ., with that? no, you can't. it was a rivileue with that? no, you can't. it was a privilege to _ with that? no, you can't. it was a privilege to have _ with that? no, you can't. it was a privilege to have got _ with that? no, you can't. it was a privilege to have got to _ with that? no, you can't. it was a privilege to have got to know- with that? no, you can't. it was a | privilege to have got to know him, were not manyjournalists had that kind of access to him. i've interviewed him many times, met him many times, to write the book about him. i wouldn't want to have written the book without him. he was having a little dip in his career when i coached him about the book. he was so grateful he got up and gave me a hug and said, please write the book about my life, i will help you. i got to know him as much off the field as people have been talking about on the field. i agree with some of the accolades, all of them. one thing i don't is any comparison

with maradona, lionel messi, there is no comparison. i've heard a lot of people make these comparisons, is either same as these players? he is head and shoulders above them, there is no comparison whatsoever. he played in an era when referees gave him no protection whatsoever. you've only got to look at the footage when he played against italy, he was carried off the pitch. he played on pitches that were abysmal, the balls were heavy, not like today. he scored 1000 girls, he scored have scored 1000 girls, he scored have scored 2000 today. the only comparison is muhammad ali, the two greatest athletes. that comparison is muhammad ali, the two greatest athletes.— greatest athletes. that is interesting, _ greatest athletes. that is interesting, i _ greatest athletes. that is interesting, i was - greatest athletes. that is interesting, i was talking | greatest athletes. that is i interesting, i was talking to greatest athletes. that is - interesting, i was talking to other corresponding he would met him, he

told this wonderful story about how pele laughed at those comparisons with lionel messi and gently teased he should get back to me after he won three world cups. having better, was he quietly assured in the knowledge and like that phrase of simply being the greatest of all—time? i simply being the greatest of all-time? ., r' simply being the greatest of all-time?— simply being the greatest of all-time? . w . ., .,, all-time? i asked him which of those -la ers he all-time? i asked him which of those players he thought — all-time? i asked him which of those players he thought would _ all-time? i asked him which of those players he thought would take - all-time? i asked him which of those players he thought would take his . players he thought would take his crown, he was called the koran, i asked him about neymar, lionel messi —— called the king. when my mother and father gave birth to me, they broke the mould, there is only one pele. in broke the mould, there is only one pele. , ., .,, broke the mould, there is only one pele. , ., , , pele. in terms of those meetings, it was interesting _ pele. in terms of those meetings, it was interesting you _ pele. in terms of those meetings, it was interesting you said _ pele. in terms of those meetings, it was interesting you said you - pele. in terms of those meetings, it was interesting you said you gotta i was interesting you said you gotta know him off the pitch. give us the stories which stand out those conversations.—

stories which stand out those conversations. the one thing in beatina conversations. the one thing in beating him — conversations. the one thing in beating him is _ conversations. the one thing in beating him is that _ conversations. the one thing in beating him is that he - conversations. the one thing in beating him is that he is - conversations. the one thing in beating him is that he is so - conversations. the one thing in i beating him is that he is so small, he's actually tiny —— meeting him. some of the great players like lionel messi, i've met george best, they are not intimidating figures, he was small. i think it was interesting just to talk to him about his life and times and his feelings about... for someone who scored 1000 goals, he had gone a few games, and i am sure alan shearer will tell you, he had gone a few games before his 1000th goal without scoring. he had a penalty, he said it was the most intimidating kick in his entire life, he wanted to score eight. he did and he was carried shoulder high off the pitch. it is

unfortunate the generation now have not seen so much footage of him, but i am sure now they will see a lot more. there is a bit out there if you search for it, and it is magical. he was a great entertainer but he was a magician, and we've seen lionel messi, the way he takes on defenders, it is nothing compared to pele, incomparable. irate on defenders, it is nothing compared to pele, incomparable.— on defenders, it is nothing compared to pele, incomparable. we are seeing some of the — to pele, incomparable. we are seeing some of the pictures, _ to pele, incomparable. we are seeing some of the pictures, i _ to pele, incomparable. we are seeing some of the pictures, i asked - to pele, incomparable. we are seeing some of the pictures, i asked henry l some of the pictures, i asked henry winter, i'm interesting in your thoughts. this was a team in the 19605 thoughts. this was a team in the 1960s and 1970s that was quite something, it was full of brilliant players. could they have won the world cup as many times without pele? i world cup as many times without pele? ., world cup as many times without pele? . , , world cup as many times without pele? ., , , ' ' :: world cup as many times without pele? . , , " :: ., pele? i mean, yes, the 1970 team, in m view, pele? i mean, yes, the 1970 team, in my view. i — pele? i mean, yes, the 1970 team, in my view. i wash _ pele? i mean, yes, the 1970 team, in my view, i wash them _ pele? i mean, yes, the 1970 team, in my view, i wash them closely, - pele? i mean, yes, the 1970 team, in my view, i wash them closely, was i my view, i wash them closely, was

the greatest ever football team that lived, and pele came out of retirement, he didn't want to play after 1966, the brutality. he came out of retirement, but he was still... have you seen the footage of how he's tried to score from the halfway line? you are talking about a different type of ball, it was heavier, different types of boots and services. the way he went round the goalkeeper and let the ball go round the goalkeeper and nearly scored one of the, the kind of goal that would never have been surpassed if you completed it. i think he was the greatest, he is the greatest of all time, there is no comparison. it is funny you talk about the faint around the goalkeeper, i was talking

to henry winter about it, he said there were a few occasions where the goals he didn't score still talked about and people search that footage, the gordon banks save is another. i footage, the gordon banks save is another. , ., footage, the gordon banks save is another. ., ., ., another. i spoke to gordon about it, i have another. i spoke to gordon about it, i have written _ another. i spoke to gordon about it, i have written a _ another. i spoke to gordon about it, i have written a book _ another. i spoke to gordon about it, i have written a book about - another. i spoke to gordon about it, i have written a book about the - another. i spoke to gordon about it, | i have written a book about the 1966 team, i have met most of them, and i spoke to him about it. that was the greatest ever save, paddy was astonished, i talk to him about it. —— pele was astonished. he relished that save, he couldn't praise gordon banks enough. he adored bobby maura, we've seen that picture —— bobby moore. the fa frowned upon england players exchanging shirts on the pitch, they wanted it in privacy.

that is an iconic picture, he respected bobby moore. i asked him who he thought the greatest player was, bobby moore was high amongst them. ., . ., ,, ., them. how much did he talk, how imortant them. how much did he talk, how important was _ them. how much did he talk, how important was at _ them. how much did he talk, how important was at the _ them. how much did he talk, how important was at the work - them. how much did he talk, how important was at the work he - them. how much did he talk, how important was at the work he did | important was at the work he did away from football within brazil? neymar making the point he gave a voice to brewer people, to a side of resolve that sometimes goes a none —— unnoticed. he resolve that sometimes goes a none -- unnoticed-— -- unnoticed. he was ostracised by fifa, we know _ -- unnoticed. he was ostracised by fifa, we know what _ -- unnoticed. he was ostracised by fifa, we know what we _ -- unnoticed. he was ostracised by fifa, we know what we think - -- unnoticed. he was ostracised by fifa, we know what we think about| fifa, we know what we think about them, that was one of the things they should hang their heads in shame with what they did with pele. i spoke to him about the book and thatis i spoke to him about the book and that is why he greeted me so warmly and said, i can't believe anybody

wants to write my life story. of course, he became accepted again by fifa, but off the field, he had search and enormous impact on the world as a whole, notjust in his homeland, but you will go anywhere in the world and people would know about pele. they would love him, wanted to see him or touch him or be part of what he was doing. i've written nearly 90 books, i've never had one published in vietnam, in vietnamese, but my book about pele was published in vietnam. anywhere in the world they want to know about him. it in the world they want to know about him. , , ., _ in the world they want to know about him. , ., ., him. it is true, you say that one word, him. it is true, you say that one word. around — him. it is true, you say that one word, around the _ him. it is true, you say that one word, around the globe - him. it is true, you say that one word, around the globe people | him. it is true, you say that one - word, around the globe people know what you are talking about and the greatest. thank you so much for some of those stories, those tributes, the official biographer of pele.

thank you forjoining us. it’s the official biographer of pele. thank you forjoining us. thank you for “oining us. it's been a pleasure. — thank you forjoining us. it's been a pleasure. lets— thank you forjoining us. it's been a pleasure. lets talk— thank you forjoining us. it's been a pleasure. lets talk now - thank you forjoining us. it's been a pleasure. lets talk now to - thank you forjoining us. it's been i a pleasure. lets talk now to nicole, our a pleasure. lets talk now to nicole, your thought _ a pleasure. lets talk now to nicole, your thought on _ a pleasure. lets talk now to nicole, your thought on this _ a pleasure. lets talk now to nicole, your thought on this date? - a pleasure. lets talk now to nicole, your thought on this date? it - a pleasure. lets talk now to nicole, your thought on this date? it is - a pleasure. lets talk now to nicole, your thought on this date? it is a i your thought on this date? it is a sad da , your thought on this date? it is a sad day. not _ your thought on this date? it is a sad day, notjust _ your thought on this date? it is a sad day, not just for _ your thought on this date? it is a sad day, notjust for brazil- your thought on this date? it is a sad day, notjust for brazil but i your thought on this date? it is a l sad day, notjust for brazil but the world. he was the greatest ever, and it is not certain, we all knew this time was coming, but it is definitely still sad to know he's gone. but everyone isjust definitely still sad to know he's gone. but everyone is just really sad, the country is mourning. it is interesting _ sad, the country is mourning. it is interesting because over the last couple of hours, it doesn't matter who i talk to in terms of knowledge of brazil and his empire, this was a man playing football in his pomp five, six decades ago, and yet the stories, the knowledge about in brazil is simply passed from

generation to generation, isn't it? yes, i never got to see him play, he was in my grandmother's days, she is the same age, and everyone knows who he is. even kids being born one though who he is in tenuous time because there's one like him, he put brazil on the map. it is very sad he's gone. i brazil on the map. it is very sad he's gone-— brazil on the map. it is very sad he's one, ., ~' ., ., he's gone. i was talking to our last ruest he's gone. i was talking to our last guest about _ he's gone. i was talking to our last guest about the _ he's gone. i was talking to our last guest about the impact _ he's gone. i was talking to our last guest about the impact off - he's gone. i was talking to our last guest about the impact off the - guest about the impact off the pitch, and neymar, the current captain, focused on that in his tribute, talk to the artistry of pele the footballer and then talked about his efforts to give a voice to people. how much of it impacted that hub in brazil? pete people. how much of it impacted that hub in brazil?—

hub in brazil? pele himself grew up oor and hub in brazil? pele himself grew up poor and he — hub in brazil? pele himself grew up poor and he helped _ hub in brazil? pele himself grew up poor and he helped us _ hub in brazil? pele himself grew up poor and he helped us family - hub in brazil? pele himself grew up poor and he helped us family were | poor and he helped us family were football, and people look after him because they can see they can have a better life through football. football is a passion in brazil and he made such a big impact, he was minister of sport in the 1990s. people do see that he has been important for the country, and he has changed people's lives, even if he hasn't met them. just has changed people's lives, even if he hasn't met them.— he hasn't met them. just a final thou . ht he hasn't met them. just a final thought because _ he hasn't met them. just a final thought because neymar- he hasn't met them. just a finall thought because neymar leading he hasn't met them. just a final- thought because neymar leading the tributes in terms of the current generation, but i suppose all of the triumphs of that team back in the 19605 triumphs of that team back in the 1960s and 70s, it has heaped pressure over the decade on the current players to in some way get anywhere close to trying to replicated. anywhere close to trying to replicated-— anywhere close to trying to replicated. anywhere close to trying to relicated. , , ., ~

replicated. definitely, and i think even the number _ replicated. definitely, and i think even the number ten, _ replicated. definitely, and i think even the number ten, the - replicated. definitely, and i think even the number ten, the shirt i even the number ten, the shirt number, nowadays the number ten is always the best and neymar is currently number ten, so if you wear it, that is so much pressure for you to be the best in the country. people know that if you are number ten, you have to bring it, play on pele's level. everyone expects brazil to be the best. pele's level. everyone expects brazilto be the best.— pele's level. everyone expects brazil to be the best. brazilto be the best. nicole, thank ou, ou brazilto be the best. nicole, thank you. you are _ brazilto be the best. nicole, thank you. you are right _ brazilto be the best. nicole, thank you, you are right because - brazilto be the best. nicole, thank you, you are right because you - brazilto be the best. nicole, thank you, you are right because you talk about the number ten shirt, not as what brazil's president—elect was saying in his tribute only a little while ago, saying there has never been a number ten like him, thank you, pele, is what he posted on his twitter account. just the importance of the number ten jersey that pele made his own. for the last one hour and three quarters, the tributes have been pouring in from so many

football's great past and present, from the stars. that's go through a few. rivaldo treating... mbappe posted... and the former england striker gary lineker posted... just a few of the tributes, another couple in the last hour. rest in

peace, pele, coming from lionel messi, messi hasjust peace, pele, coming from lionel messi, messi has just lifted peace, pele, coming from lionel messi, messi hasjust lifted the world cup. cristiano ronaldo saying pele was a source of inspiration for millions. the footballing greats of the current area paying tribute to perhaps the greatest of all time. let's get more from holly hamilton, who has been monitoring reaction. it is remarkable _ monitoring reaction. it is remarkable to _ monitoring reaction. it is remarkable to see - monitoring reaction. it is remarkable to see these | monitoring reaction. it 3 remarkable to see these tributes were many sports journalists and football fans, he what to young to have seen him play, but that is the thing we realise, pele transcends generations. the memories of his aerobics on the pitch are passed down from mothers and fathers, he

was the first global superstar football. it started when he was just 17 when he held brazil win the 1958 world cup. it is for many beyond the goals and triumphs, those moments on the pitch that will stay in our memories beyond the world records of 1200 goals, over a career spanning 21 years. the only player to win the world cup three times, lifting the trophy in 1958, 1962 and 1970, if you are's player of the century into thousand. but the money he was just a joy to watch, he had this ability to make football a spectacle when he missed just as much as he scored. we didn't know the news was coming tonight, it won't have come as much of a shock, he was having treatment in hospital since the end of november for: cancer as well as heart and kidney

problems after he revealed he was battling cancer. we'd been monitoring this over the last few days, his daughter kely nascimento has kept people updated, and she posted the emotional photo before christmas, where she said one more night together, with a picture of her hugging herfather. what a career to reflect upon, the fifa player of the century alongside maradona, among so many accolades, too many to mention, the international piece award. it is worth remembering those images in 19 city six, the tournament in england, he was part of that team in 1970, that opening goal in the 4—1win

against italy. the tributes have been emotional from those who met him, who worked with him. again, like i mentioned, notjust those records, it's the comments like those from neymar, who does hold the record for the most goals in brazil alongside him. before pele, he said, ten was only an number, football was solely a sport, pele changed everything. we knew he was in hospital while the tournament was taking place, so many of the players across the world showing their support for this legends during the world cup. it is better say his legend will live on through those stories we've been hearing tonight. whenever any football is played, the name of pele will be synonymous with

it. �* ., , ., ., name of pele will be synonymous with it. before you go, i was talking to harry harris. _ it. before you go, i was talking to harry harris, the _ it. before you go, i was talking to harry harris, the official - harry harris, the official biographer, and he was an absolutely no doubt, he has heard about those debates, maradona, messi, rinaldo. in his view, there was no doubt, there was only one, and that was pele. i5 there was only one, and that was pele. , . , there was only one, and that was pele. , ., , ,., pele. is a feeling this debate will to on, pele. is a feeling this debate will go on. but _ pele. is a feeling this debate will go on. but it _ pele. is a feeling this debate will go on. but it is— pele. is a feeling this debate will go on, but it is hard _ pele. is a feeling this debate will go on, but it is hard to _ pele. is a feeling this debate will go on, but it is hard to dispute i pele. is a feeling this debate will. go on, but it is hard to dispute the facts when we look at the statistics. he was a different player compared to maradona, he didn't have the same anger, a very different style. it was a style of when he missed a goal, he was a pleasure to watch, and he will always be compared to messi and george best, but for many people, it is better to say pele to find that generation. it is hard to argue,

when it comes to world cups, the only player to have won three world cups, that pele will be the greatest of all time for many people. the latest of the _ of all time for many people. the latest of the many, many tributes coming from fever, saying pele was immortal, that from football's world governing body. the memory, the records, the goals are brazil's number ten, that will stretch into immortality. that the essence in terms of the message from fever. i will show you the pictures from the hospital, because 327 was what the hospital, because 327 was what the hospital told us was the time of his passing, multiple organ failure, just the one line as a result of the colon cancer he's hard for the past three years. so many tributes over

the last few are, from neymar, colon, from cristiano ronaldo, what he was like as a player. neymar said he was like as a player. neymar said he transformed soccer into a form of art and entertainment. martin is with year with more tributes and more coverage of the story but is dominating our news, but i will leave you with this from the author of brazil 1970. this is his response to today's news. we of brazil 1970. this is his response to today's news.— to today's news. we knew it was common. _ to today's news. we knew it was common. we — to today's news. we knew it was common, we were _ to today's news. we knew it was common, we were prepared - to today's news. we knew it was common, we were prepared for| to today's news. we knew it was i common, we were prepared for it, to today's news. we knew it was - common, we were prepared for it, but it is a sad day and a sad day for football. my assessment of pele is simply he is the greatest player of

all—time. i think it is hard to overestimate the scale of pele, the athlete and man. he was the first genuine global superstar of any description, i would say, even outside football or sport. a phenomenal but even more, he was, brazil are the time was still a relatively young country, looking to find its way. and i think that is where pele comes in, he represented brazil and winning that third world cup in 1970, he also transcended the game. cup in 1970, he also transcended the name. ., cup in 1970, he also transcended the ame. ., cup in 1970, he also transcended the name. ., .,, , game. you said he was the first rlobal game. you said he was the first global superstar. _ game. you said he was the first global superstar. how- game. you said he was the first global superstar. how did - game. you said he was the first global superstar. how did he i game. you said he was the first i global superstar. how did he cope with something like that? weill. global superstar. how did he cope with something like that? well, he came from a _ with something like that? well, he came from a humble _ with something like that? well, he came from a humble background, l with something like that? well, he i came from a humble background, as you know, growing up initially,

before moving to santos at an early age. before he was called up for the 1958 world cup, and he was only a teenager, only 17, he set up a radio and when he heard his name among the squad members for that world cup in sweden in 1958, he didn't express any surprise, but he was prepared for it. from an early age, i think pele was prepared to become that star. the person, the personality was prepared to become pele. we saw it in later life as wealth. and at times you wonder where was the

person, because it was always pele, pele, pele. to go back to your question, i think he was always prepared. in question, i think he was always reared. , ., question, i think he was always --reared. , ., prepared. in terms of the football, those three _ prepared. in terms of the football, those three world _ prepared. in terms of the football, those three world cups, _ prepared. in terms of the football, those three world cups, we - prepared. in terms of the football, those three world cups, we saw. prepared. in terms of the football, those three world cups, we saw inj those three world cups, we saw in 1966 how he became targeted. how did he, to cope with it and to get to 1970 and forfinally he, to cope with it and to get to 1970 and for finally winning the third world cup? iie 1970 and for finally winning the third world cup?— 1970 and for finally winning the third world cup? 1970 and for finally winning the third world cu - ? ., , ., third world cup? he was targeted in 1966 but he had — third world cup? he was targeted in 1966 but he had the _ third world cup? he was targeted in 1966 but he had the maturity - third world cup? he was targeted in 1966 but he had the maturity to - 1966 but he had the maturity to bounce bar, and i remember brazil lost a world cup and had to find a new direction. they did it with scientific preparations, and that meant pele, almost in the twilight of his career, was in perfect physical shape in 1970 and physical fitness. and that world cup

demonstrated one of the qualities every great player has. he kind of adopted his style to mexico 1972 the fact of being 30 years old. he played with bursts of energy, he reserved his energy and struck at the right time. pele that 1970 world cup represented his last chance to win the world cup, to cement brazil's name as the football nation and to really enter the pantheon of the gods. as many of his team—mates told me, he was really dead set on winning that world cup, and as you know, brazil, pele did it in such wonderful style, know, brazil, pele did it in such wonderfulstyle, in know, brazil, pele did it in such wonderful style, in three delirious weeks in mexico, defeating italy 4—1 enough remarkable final. your description — enough remarkable final. your description of _ enough remarkable final. your description of him _ enough remarkable final. your description of him being - enough remarkable final. your description of him being careful

with his energy, targeting when he burst into games, that's not dissimilar with lionel messi in the world cup that has gone. as we continue to look at pictures from him in his prime, there were other great players in the brazil team. could that team have been a success without him? how successful would they have been without pele? it is a level question. _ they have been without pele? it is a level question, it _ they have been without pele? it is a level question, it is _ they have been without pele? it is a level question, it is a _ they have been without pele? it is a level question, it is a lovely - level question, it is a lovely question i asked some of his team—mates, and perhaps we should listen to the words of the midfield maestro in that team, and he always believed result could have won it without him, and that's not taking anything away from the great man, but there is no doubt in the late 19505, and even in the 1970 team, brazil had so much talent in their ranks, it was always hard for any very talented player to make the

starting 11. of course, pele was the cherry on the cake of that 1970 team. it is important to point out that brazil 1970 is considered to be pele's prime, perhaps that is not true. as his team—mate always points out, pele was in his prime in the early 19605 when he won the intercontinental cup twice with some task, when they were the best team in the world. when he won the 1958 world cup, then defended it four years later in chile despite injury, that was when he was in is prime physically, but the world never got to see it because tb was simply not around. . . , to see it because tb was simply not around. ., .,, ., ., around. that was the football journalist _ around. that was the football

journalist and _ around. that was the football journalist and author- around. that was the football journalist and author of - around. that was the football journalist and author of brazil 1970. he was speaking little earlier to my colleague about the legendary brazilian footballer pele, who has died. this is bbc news. we are bringing you continuing coverage of the death of the brazilian footballer, widely regarded as the greatest player of all time, pele. he died at the aged of 82 and had been suffering from cancer. during his career, he won three fifa world cups, the only player to do so, and received countless awards and titles. in brazil, he is hailed as a national hero for his achievements in football and for his repeated calls to improve the social conditions of the poor. joe wilson reports on the life of one of the true greats. pele expressed no regrets. if i have to do everything again since i was

born until now, i would