good morning. what a year we have ahead. they are. this is not the general election campaign, honest! but look, two leaders try to set their terms in the same couple of days. i two leaders try to set their terms in the same couple of days. i know man of in the same couple of days. i know many of you _ in the same couple of days. i know

many of you look— in the same couple of days. i know many of you look ahead _ in the same couple of days. i know many of you look ahead to - in the same couple of days. i know many of you look ahead to 2023 i in the same couple of days. i know. many of you look ahead to 2023 with apprehension. many of you look ahead to 2023 with apprehension-— many of you look ahead to 2023 with apprehension. should he be nervous? we can feel — apprehension. should he be nervous? we can feel the _ apprehension. should he be nervous? we can feel the public _ apprehension. should he be nervous? we can feel the public looking - apprehension. should he be nervous? we can feel the public looking at - apprehension. should he be nervous? we can feel the public looking at us i we can feel the public looking at us again— we can feel the public looking at us again and _ we can feel the public looking at us again and we won't let up. he doesnt again and we won't let up. he: doesn't seem it. look at the tories apostrophe polling and the nhs this christmas, the prospects are truly grim. we have one big question this morning, is rishi sunak the man to get a grip of both? prime minister, thank you very much for taking the time to speak to us. there is a lot talk about. in a few minutes, we'll hear that interview in full, rishi sunak on the health service, strikes, and saving the tory party. the man who wants to grab control of the nhs for labour — wes streeting's here. and a spot of sunday stardust — a man with plenty of gongs on his shelf — sam mendes on his new movie and the real value of awards. but the truth is, awards are a tv show. you know, awards are there to promote films — if that film wins an award, i'm more likely to go and see it. to make sense of it all —

the boss of one of the biggest hospitals in the country, professor clive kay, is here, top numbers man, andy haldane who was at bank of england is with me and we'll hearfrom the leader of the nurses union, pat cullen — will rishi sunak say anything to make her call off the strikes? welcome back! great to be with you for 2023. it seems unlikely we'll end up with three prime ministers like last year — we'll hear from the man who certainly hopes he'll hang on in a few minutes. first — what are the papers leading on this morning? across the piece, lots of focus on the health service, the sunday times and observer talking about possible

solutions to what many people call a crisis. but, of course, more claims and allegations from prince harry after such a torrid week for the panel. let's talk about first of all the nhs. professor clive kay, you run one of the biggest hospitals in the country, king's in london. we heard health leader after health leader saying this is a crisis, doctors saying this is the worst they have ever seen. is doctors saying this is the worst they have ever seen.— doctors saying this is the worst they have ever seen. is that true? yes, they have ever seen. is that true? yes. laura- _ they have ever seen. is that true? yes, laura. i've _ they have ever seen. is that true? yes, laura. i've been _ they have ever seen. is that true? yes, laura. i've been in _ they have ever seen. is that true? yes, laura. i've been in the - they have ever seen. is that true? yes, laura. i've been in the nhs | yes, laura. i've been in the nhs close to a0 years, every year is tough and everyone seems tougher than the last that this is the toughest time. my colleagues are doing their level best. they are doing their level best. they are doing an amazing job. they have since covid in particular and throughout the pandemic but it is now pretty relentless. the reality is we are having to carry out corridor care. we do have patients stuck in bed, and sometimes, and it is awful, we have patients in our

a&e departments for several days. everyone is trying really hard but just to make it real, i was in our emergency a&e andi a&e and i spoke to a nurse and she said i've been doing thisjob for ten years and every night i go home and cry because i can't deliver the sort of care are used are always able to and that breaks my heart. how desperate is pat cullen, isn't it time to compromise unpaid? you said 10% might be a figure you would accept, is that true? what said 10% might be a figure you would accept, is that true?— accept, is that true? what my words were, accept, is that true? what my words were. let's — accept, is that true? what my words were, let's meet _ accept, is that true? what my words were, let's meet halfway. _ accept, is that true? what my words were, let's meet halfway. i- were, let's meet halfway. i think that is_ were, let's meet halfway. i think that is a — were, let's meet halfway. i think that is a significant _ were, let's meet halfway. i think that is a significant move - were, let's meet halfway. ! think that is a significant move for- were, let's meet halfway. i think that is a significant move for the| that is a significant move for the royal— that is a significant move for the royal college _ that is a significant move for the royal college of— that is a significant move for the royal college of nursing - that is a significant move for the royal college of nursing and - that is a significant move for the royal college of nursing and it i that is a significant move for thel royal college of nursing and it is in response — royal college of nursing and it is in response to _ royal college of nursing and it is in response to how— royal college of nursing and it is in response to how we _ royal college of nursing and it is in response to how we are - royal college of nursing and it is - in response to how we are responding to the _ in response to how we are responding to the pressure — in response to how we are responding to the pressure within _ in response to how we are responding to the pressure within the _ in response to how we are responding to the pressure within the health - to the pressure within the health service — to the pressure within the health service it — to the pressure within the health service it is— to the pressure within the health service. it is not _ to the pressure within the health service. it is not any— to the pressure within the health service. it is not any nurse's - service. it is not any nurse's intention— service. it is not any nurse's intention to _ service. it is not any nurse's intention to add _ service. it is not any nurse's intention to add to - service. it is not any nurse's intention to add to the - service. it is not any nurse's intention to add to the risk. service. it is not any nurse's i intention to add to the risk on service. it is not any nurse's - intention to add to the risk on the pressures—

intention to add to the risk on the pressures that _ intention to add to the risk on the pressures that patients _ intention to add to the risk on the pressures that patients are - intention to add to the risk on thei pressures that patients are feeling and indeed — pressures that patients are feeling and indeed people _ pressures that patients are feeling and indeed people like _ pressures that patients are feeling and indeed people like clive - pressures that patients are feeling and indeed people like clive who. pressures that patients are feeling l and indeed people like clive who are trying _ and indeed people like clive who are trying to— and indeed people like clive who are trying to run— and indeed people like clive who are trying to run a — and indeed people like clive who are trying to run a health _ and indeed people like clive who are trying to run a health service. - and indeed people like clive who are trying to run a health service. so - and indeed people like clive who are trying to run a health service. sol. trying to run a health service. sol think— trying to run a health service. sol think that — trying to run a health service. sol think that is — trying to run a health service. sol think that is a _ trying to run a health service. sol think that is a significant - trying to run a health service. sol think that is a significant move - think that is a significant move from _ think that is a significant move from this— think that is a significant move from this college. _ think that is a significant move from this college. as - think that is a significant move from this college. as i - think that is a significant move from this college. as i said - think that is a significant move. from this college. as i said time and time — from this college. as i said time and time again. _ from this college. as i said time and time again, the _ from this college. as i said time and time again, the prime - from this college. as i said time i and time again, the prime minister needs— and time again, the prime minister needs to _ and time again, the prime minister needs to grasp _ and time again, the prime minister needs to grasp that _ and time again, the prime minister needs to grasp that nettle - and time again, the prime minister needs to grasp that nettle and - and time again, the prime minister needs to grasp that nettle and geti needs to grasp that nettle and get to a table — needs to grasp that nettle and get to a table with _ needs to grasp that nettle and get to a table with me. _ needs to grasp that nettle and get to a table with me. find— needs to grasp that nettle and get to a table with me.— needs to grasp that nettle and get to a table with me. and we will hear from him in — to a table with me. and we will hear from him in a _ to a table with me. and we will hear from him in a few— to a table with me. and we will hear from him in a few minutes. - to a table with me. and we will hear from him in a few minutes. the - from him in a few minutes. the government is grappling with the nhs and an economy heading into recession, and haldane. this year, will the country get richer or poorer? will the country get richer or oorer? _, ., , will the country get richer or oorer? ., , , ., , poorer? the economy starts in recession- _ poorer? the economy starts in recession- i— poorer? the economy starts in recession. i suspect _ poorer? the economy starts in recession. i suspect near- poorer? the economy starts in| recession. i suspect near term, poorer? the economy starts in - recession. i suspect near term, that situation _ recession. i suspect near term, that situation will — recession. i suspect near term, that situation will get a bit worse. indeed. — situation will get a bit worse. indeed, health will make that bad situation — indeed, health will make that bad situation a little worse. it is possible. _ situation a little worse. it is possible, maybe even probable that by the _ possible, maybe even probable that by the middle of the year, we could see things — by the middle of the year, we could see things beginning to brighten but against _ see things beginning to brighten but against a _ see things beginning to brighten but against a backdrop of first grim and then a _ against a backdrop of first grim and then a hit— against a backdrop of first grim and then a bit more grim in the near term _ then a bit more grim in the near term. , not that much to be cheerful about at this stage but a warning at the end of the programme, i want you to think of something that might be a bit optimistic for this year. thank you all three of you right now. let's get on with our

main event. you can't have missed our political leaders trying to call the shots in the last seven days in theirformal speeches — but time to put your and our questions to them. next week, sir keir starmer will be here. but first up, rishi sunak. we invited him to come to the studio because we like you to be part of the conversation too but instead we were asked to go to number 10 last night to talk about the state of the nation, the state of the tory party, and of course right now, the state of the nhs — simple starterfor io — is the nhs in crisis? the nhs is undeniably under enormous pressure and i have spent today talking to nhs leaders, all day, in fact. it's an opportunity for me to say first of all thank you to them and their colleagues for the incredible job that they are doing. notjust at the moment but over the past two years. but recovering from covid is going to be tough. and we're seeing that play out on our tv screens every day and in communities up—and—down the country. but, actually, i came away from all my meetings today with a renewed sense of confidence and optimism that we can get to grips with this problem.

i set it out as one of the five priorities i have earlier this week in a speech i made to the country. i want them to know this is a top priority for me and the good news is, across the country, as i was talking about today with colleagues, is there are so many fantastic examples of doctors, nurses, primary care teams that are able to overcome some of the challenges they are facing and make an enormous difference to their communities. but ou difference to their communities. but you having a meeting in downing street today won't be much comfort to the nearly a0,000 patients in november who had to wait more than 12 hours in a&e. and you are saying you are grateful to staff today won't be much comfort to the many families who have experienced terrible things in the last few weeks. is it a crisis? this terrible things in the last few weeks. is it a crisis?- terrible things in the last few weeks. is it a crisis? as i said, the nhs _ weeks. is it a crisis? as i said, the nhs is _ weeks. is it a crisis? as i said, the nhs is under— weeks. is it a crisis? as i said, the nhs is under pressure. - weeks. is it a crisis? as i said, l the nhs is under pressure. that weeks. is it a crisis? as i said, - the nhs is under pressure. that is why, the few weeks after i became prime minister, we had the autumn statement. in spite of the difficult decisions we had to make in order to

stabilise the economy, make sure we get to grips with inflation and reduce debt, we managed to find more money for the nhs and social care because i wanted to make sure everyone, including all the people you talked about, knew this was a priority and that money is going into the system and what we need to make sure is that money makes a difference. but make sure is that money makes a difference-— difference. but their level of service many _ difference. but their level of service many people - difference. but their level of service many people have i difference. but their level of - service many people have experienced in the last few weeks has been terrible. doctors at their wits end, nurses at their wits end, some patients have been absolutely appalled by what has happened and have had terrible experiences. i'm asking you about the word crisis because sometimes i think people will only believe that you can get to grips with this if you acknowledge how bad it is. the royal couege acknowledge how bad it is. the royal college of emergency medicine has said that at least 300 people a week have died because of problems in overcrowding and emergency care. if thatis overcrowding and emergency care. if that is not a crisis, i ask you, what is?— that is not a crisis, i ask you, what is? , ., ._ , what is? the first thing to say is when it comes _ what is? the first thing to say is when it comes to _ what is? the first thing to say is when it comes to numbers - what is? the first thing to say is when it comes to numbers like l what is? the first thing to say is - when it comes to numbers like that, the nhs themselves have said they don't recognise those numbers and would be careful about bandying them

around. i would be careful about bandying them around. ~ :, would be careful about bandying them around. ,, ., ., , around. i think what matters... it is not banding — around. i think what matters... it is not banding them _ around. i think what matters... it is not banding them around, - around. i think what matters... it is not banding them around, the | is not banding them around, the royal college of emergency medicine. the nhs themselves have said they don't recognise those numbers and would be careful about using them, so i willjust leave it at that. i think what matters more than words is action. and here are the actions, three weeks after i became prime minister, in the autumn statement, at a time of difficulty elsewhere, billions of extra pounds for the nhs and social care. the next thing is, what difference is that going to make? that's the question people should be asking, that's what i want to be held accountable for. so yes, there are unacceptable delays right now happening in ambulances and a&es but if you look at it, we have a relatively small number of trusts, around 10% that account for over half of all the ambulance turned over delays and part of the discussions we were having today is figuring out, in the areas where we have managed to find ways to reduce some of the waiting pressures, what is it that is working that we can spread around the country? i will give you an example because the

thing is, what are we going to do? the number one problem we have at the moment is around 13,000 people in hospitals who ideally should be backin in hospitals who ideally should be back in their communities and social care or home settings and recently we have put an extra half £1 billion and over this winter in a discharge fund. fin and over this winter in a discharge fund. :, and over this winter in a discharge fund, ., i: i: and over this winter in a discharge fund. ., :: :: ., ., . fund. on that 500 million, how much ofthat fund. on that 500 million, how much of that has been _ fund. on that 500 million, how much of that has been spent _ fund. on that 500 million, how much of that has been spent already? - fund. on that 500 million, how much of that has been spent already? we l of that has been spent already? we are of that has been spent already? - are just getting the returns back and we were talking about it today, getting the returns back from all the local areas. that money has gone to local areas. we need to make sure it's being spent in the right way. one of the conversations i had with health leaders today is making sure that money is well spent, because where it is being well spent, it's making a difference and you can start to see some of that pressure ease. people being moved back into their communities. i will give you another example because this is really practical. how can we ease some of the pressures? we need to use more virtual wards, another thing we discussed, where we can move people out of hospital into what are called virtual wards, particularly for people with acute

respiratory diseases who can be monitored remotely. that is something clinicians are leading on and it's making an enormous difference. and it's making an enormous difference-— and it's making an enormous difference. ., , difference. those are both things that can happen _ difference. those are both things that can happen in _ difference. those are both things that can happen in the _ difference. those are both things that can happen in the future - difference. those are both things that can happen in the future and difference. those are both things. that can happen in the future and i understand you want to focus on things that can be done in the future but i think a lot of people looking at what has happened in the nhs in the last couple of months willjust think, in fact a viewer got in touch with me today saying, please ask the prime minister this: how have you let this happen? because nhs leaders have been warning about this winter for months and months and months. yes, you announced more money and more money in september but right now in the last couple of weeks, in the sixth biggest economy in the world, people have been waiting and waiting and waiting for ambulances to come and pick them up at a time of terrible emergency. people have been working more than 12 hours for a bed. you know there are countless stories around like this. how have you let this happen? 50 around like this. how have you let this happen?— around like this. how have you let this hauen? ., ., this happen? so again, when you say that these things _ this happen? so again, when you say that these things are _ this happen? so again, when you say that these things are in _ this happen? so again, when you say that these things are in the _ this happen? so again, when you say that these things are in the future, . that these things are in the future, they are not. they are things we can make a difference on right now. so

we can do more virtual wards right now. we can discharge people faster out of hospitals into social care right now with the funding that we are putting in. it is right now with the funding that we are putting im— right now with the funding that we are putting in. it is not happening. we can figure _ are putting in. it is not happening. we can figure out _ are putting in. it is not happening. we can figure out the _ are putting in. it is not happening. we can figure out the best - are putting in. it is not happening. | we can figure out the best practice on ambulance triage so we can stop people coming to a&e in the first place if they don't need to be. if they have had a falling can be treated and felt that we can do that right now because it's already happening in many parts of the country but what we need to do is spread that all the other parts of the country where it is not happening. so those are the things i am focused on. i think it's not right to ignore the impact that covid has had. the reality is, for two years, the nhs had to stop doing lots of things that it normally does, whether it is treating people for cancer because they were not being referred. whether it was carrying out elective surgery and unsurprisingly, once we get back to normal, all of those treatments come back at a pace... that was anticipated but is obviously very significant. so yes, has the nhs had pressures before? of course it has.

that covid has undeniably had an enormous difference and it is wrong to ignore that. but what we're doing is putting more money in, making sure that the initiatives work and starting to improve some of these waiting times. you starting to improve some of these waiting times-— waiting times. you are right, it would be ridiculous— waiting times. you are right, it would be ridiculous to - waiting times. you are right, it would be ridiculous to deny - waiting times. you are right, it i would be ridiculous to deny covid and flu this winter have had an impact but things were going in the wrong direction well before the pandemic. the target for to be seen in a&e within four hours has not been met since 2015. waiting lists were already going up to extremely high levels over the last few years. bed numbers have gone down. staff shortages have gone up. i ask you again, you were warned about this repeatedly, whether it is unions, health leaders, whatever. things were going wrong long before the pandemic and don't you have to acknowledge that if you want to fix it? i acknowledge that if you want to fix it? 4' acknowledge that if you want to fix it? ~ , , acknowledge that if you want to fix it? 4' , , :, it? ithink “ust gently, iwould oint it? ithink “ust gently, iwould point out.— it? ithinkjust gently, iwould point out. you _ it? ithinkjust gently, iwould point out, you mention - it? ithinkjust gently, iwould point out, you mention a&e l it? i thinkjust gently, i would - point out, you mention a&e waiting times. absolutely right to focus on those. in wales and in scotland, for example, they are operating at worse levels than they are in england.

that is three different governments, all of whom care about the nhs, all of whom are trying to make a difference. i of whom are trying to make a difference-— of whom are trying to make a difference. i am not making a olitical difference. i am not making a political point _ difference. i am not making a political point about - difference. i am not making a political point about who - difference. i am not making a political point about who is i difference. i am not making a - political point about who is getting it wrong because that you are the prime minister of this country and people are watching what's happening in a&e and they feel desperate. what in a&e and they feel desperate. what the want in a&e and they feel desperate. what they want to — in a&e and they feel desperate. what they want to know _ in a&e and they feel desperate. what they want to know is _ in a&e and they feel desperate. isz�*i�*ué�*if they want to know is what will make a difference to it? what i am sitting here and telling you about is the things we are doing that are going to improve the situation. i can't help that covid happened. i can't help that covid happened. i can't help that there are now thousands of people in hospitals who normally would not be there. but we are making a difference in moving them back to social care settings or their homes as quickly as possible. we are learning best practice from those trust to doing things differently and reducing ambulance delays and spreading that around the country. we are doing more treatment of people with falls outside of hospital. are those things are going to make a difference overnight? of course they are not but they are going to make a difference own and they say is one of my key priorities.— they say is one of my key riorities. ., ._ ,., ., ,., priorities. you say soon, so when? ambulance — priorities. you say soon, so when? ambulance delays _ priorities. you say soon, so when? ambulance delays for _ priorities. you say soon, so when? ambulance delays for example - priorities. you say soon, so when?

ambulance delays for example are | priorities. you say soon, so when? i ambulance delays for example are at record levels. when do you think what you are talking about can make a difference? i what you are talking about can make a difference?— a difference? i will not sit here and say this — a difference? i will not sit here and say this can _ a difference? i will not sit here and say this can be _ a difference? i will not sit here and say this can be promised l a difference? i will not sit here i and say this can be promised and and say this can he promised and solved overnight because it is not going to be. solved overnight because it is not going to be— solved overnight because it is not anointobe.~ , , . going to be. when can people expect a difference question _ going to be. when can people expect a difference question that _ going to be. when can people expect a difference question that you - going to be. when can people expect a difference question that you say, i a difference question that you say, i had solutions, listen to my solution but when will they make a difference? fin solution but when will they make a difference? : solution but when will they make a difference? ., , , difference? on waiting lists, we have a plan _ difference? on waiting lists, we have a plan we _ difference? on waiting lists, we have a plan we have _ difference? on waiting lists, we have a plan we have in - difference? on waiting lists, we have a plan we have in place, i difference? on waiting lists, we i have a plan we have in place, that we are making sure we can actually deliver. so last year, we eliminated practically the number of people waiting over two years. i'm confident in a few months�* time waiting over two years. i�*m confident in a few months�* time we will have practically eliminated those people who are waiting a year and a half of their treatment because we are working to the plan we have put in place. by next spring, i�*m confident we will practically eliminate all those people waiting over a year and the waiting lists will be falling. when it comes to an urgent and emergency care, we are working through, as i�*ve done all day today with health leaders to see what things can we do to make a difference in the short term? that is the work that is going on now. i can�*t sit here and tell you it will happen by next week but i can tell you is the situation many places is already improving on what

we want to do is learn from that and make sure more places can benefit from that type of good practice. would that have helped if the conservative party hadn�*t had cloud changes of health secretary in six months? , ,, ., ,, changes of health secretary in six months? , ,, .,~ ., changes of health secretary in six months? , ,, ., months? rishi sunak what i can tell ou is months? rishi sunak what i can tell you is what — months? rishi sunak what i can tell you is what i've _ months? rishi sunak what i can tell you is what i've done _ months? rishi sunak what i can tell you is what i've done since - months? rishi sunak what i can tell you is what i've done since i - months? rishi sunak what i can tell you is what i've done since i have i you is what i�*ve done since i have been prime minister. you is what i've done since i have been prime minister.— you is what i've done since i have been prime minister. would have heled? it been prime minister. would have helped? it wouldn't _ been prime minister. would have helped? it wouldn't have - been prime minister. would have helped? it wouldn't have made i been prime minister. would have i helped? it wouldn't have made any difference to _ helped? it wouldn't have made any difference to the _ helped? it wouldn't have made any difference to the fact _ helped? it wouldn't have made any difference to the fact we _ helped? it wouldn't have made any difference to the fact we had - helped? it wouldn't have made any difference to the fact we had a - difference to the fact we had a pandemic for two years, that�*s the reality. if the health service for two years had to focus on covid and stop people being referred with cancer, if it stopped having to do elective surgery rightly to focus on a different priority it is not about who the health secretary was, it is about a pandemic that happened that we are having to recover from. flan we are having to recover from. can ou ever we are having to recover from. can you ever fix _ we are having to recover from. can you ever fix the — we are having to recover from. can you ever fix the problems of social care and care workers get paid around £18,000 a year which you know is well below the average wage? what is well below the average wage? what we are doing — is well below the average wage? what we are doing with _ is well below the average wage? isz�*i�*ué�*if we are doing with some of the extra money that we have put into social care is actually support the social care is actually support the social care workforce who do an incredible job and we shall be very grateful. i am very gratefulfor job and we shall be very grateful. i am very grateful for them. one of the things we prioritised is making

sure people in that workforce do feel valued and importantly have a sense... ., , ., �* ., feel valued and importantly have a sense... ., , ., , sense... their wages don't go up, that's how — sense... their wages don't go up, that's how people _ sense... their wages don't go up, that's how people often _ sense... their wages don't go up, that's how people often feel - sense... their wages don't go up, i that's how people often feel valued. that�*s how people often feel valued. talking to people today and over the last couple of years there is a range of things we can do to ensure people working in social care do feel valued, and part of that actually is giving a sense of qualifications, professional training and development and a sense of career progression. these aren�*t things that have happened properly in the past but because of the extra funding we are putting in all of those things are going to be delivered. when i�*m out and about talking to people they devalue those things, it�*s notjust about how much people are paid. things, it's notjust about how much people are paid-— people are paid. would you do a 'ob as a care worker�* people are paid. would you do a 'ob as a care worker ford people are paid. would you do a 'ob as a care worker for £18,000 i people are paid. would you do a 'ob as a care worker for £18,000 a h people are paid. would you do a job. as a care worker for £18,000 a year? thejob i�*m doing is making a difference to the country as prime minister and that�*s why this week i set out the priorities i believe the country has that i will focus on which is about halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats. .,, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats. :,, :, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats. ., , ., , the boats. those are the priorities i have as prime _

the boats. those are the priorities i have as prime minister. - the boats. those are the priorities i have as prime minister. on - i have as prime minister. on stopping the boats, as you raise it, stopping the boats, as you raise it, stopping the boats, as you raise it, stopping the channel crossings, what is the target? i know you want to pass legislation but what is the target? everybody who arrives go somewhere else, has to leave the country? or everybody is detained? what is your actual target? the s stem what is your actual target? the system we _ what is your actual target? the system we want _ what is your actual target? the system we want to _ what is your actual target? tie system we want to put in place is very clear, my view is if you come here illegally you shouldn�*t have the right to stay and you will be detained and then swiftly removed, either to your home if it is appropriate, or indeed to a safe third alternative. that should apply to everybody who comes here illegally. that�*s a very straightforward system. i think it is a common system the vast majority of people will think is reasonable and will support. but we need new laws to implement that system and those are the laws that we will bring forward.— those are the laws that we will brina forward. , ., , , . . bring forward. there is no specific taraet? it bring forward. there is no specific target? it is _ bring forward. there is no specific target? it is a _ bring forward. there is no specific target? it is a system _ bring forward. there is no specific target? it is a system you - bring forward. there is no specific target? it is a system you want i bring forward. there is no specific target? it is a system you want to introduce rather than a specific target? introduce rather than a specific taraet? : introduce rather than a specific taraet? ., , ., introduce rather than a specific taraet? :, , ., ., target? the target is we want to stop illegal _ target? the target is we want to stop illegal migration _ target? the target is we want to stop illegal migration but i target? the target is we want to stop illegal migration but we i target? the target is we want to i stop illegal migration but we can't stop illegal migration but we can�*t do that unless we pass these new laws and have that type of system in place, and the power is for us to enable us to do that. i�*m confident

we can deliver it if we can pass the legislation and that will be a question for parliament. but again thatis question for parliament. but again that is something we have already made progress on in the several weeks i�*ve had thejob, we have new deals with france, a new deal with albania, more patrols happening on french beaches, that is a positive. we haven�*t had that degree of involvement before. albania accounted for a third almost of illegal arrivals last year, albania is obviously a safe country. other european countries return illegal migrants to albania and we were not doing it sufficiently. with the new deal i have negotiated and the changes we are making we will also be able to make a difference there. were you registered with the private gp and are you still? yeah but my dad was a doctor, i grew up in an nhs family. dad was a doctor, i grew up in an nhs family-— dad was a doctor, i grew up in an nhs famil . ., .,, , , ., nhs family. that was my question, where ou nhs family. that was my question, where you registered _ nhs family. that was my question, where you registered with - nhs family. that was my question, where you registered with a - nhs family. that was my question, where you registered with a private gp? is where you registered with a private gp? , :, where you registered with a private gp? , ., :, ,., :, gp? is a general point i would never talk about me _ gp? is a general point i would never talk about me or— gp? is a general point i would never talk about me or my _ gp? is a general point i would never talk about me or my family's - gp? is a general point i would never talk about me or my family's health | talk about me or my family�*s health care situation. but it isn�*t really relevant to this. what is relevant is the difference i can make to the country. is the difference i can make to the count . : is the difference i can make to the count . ., ., ~ , country. hang on, prime minister, there is huge _ country. hang on, prime minister, there is huge public— country. hang on, prime minister, there is huge public interest i country. hang on, prime minister, there is huge public interest in i country. hang on, prime minister, j there is huge public interest in the decisions you make. one of your predecessors who i know you admire

very much, margaret thatcher, said very much, margaret thatcher, said very openly she decided to use her right as a free citizen to spend my money on my own way so that i can go on in the day to the doctor i choose and get out fast. she was perfectly happy and proud to talk about the decisions she made. why won�*t you tell people whether you use private health care? it is tell people whether you use private health care?— health care? it is a personal choice, health _ health care? it is a personal choice, health care - health care? it is a personal choice, health care is i health care? it is a personal- choice, health care is something that i think is somewhat private. but what i think people care about is am i going to make a difference on the thing that they care about? when it comes to the nhs, i grew up in an nhs family, my dad was a gp and my mum was a pharmacist. and that matters more than these things. but what i would say is i want to make sure we do have fantastic health care for everybody. you have made that clear. _ health care for everybody. you have made that clear. the _ health care for everybody. you have made that clear. the role _ health care for everybody. you have made that clear. the role of- health care for everybody. you have made that clear. the role of the i made that clear. the role of the rivate made that clear. the role of the private sector, _ made that clear. the role of the private sector, this _ made that clear. the role of the private sector, this is _ made that clear. the role of the private sector, this is really i private sector, this is really important... private sector, this is really important. . ._ private sector, this is really important. . . important... there is a public interest in — important... there is a public interest in the _ important... there is a public interest in the decisions i important... there is a public interest in the decisions the l important... there is a public i interest in the decisions the prime minister makes for himself. why won�*t you tell us whether or not you use private health care? won't you tell us whether or not you use private health care?— use private health care? again, it is a distraction _ use private health care? again, it is a distraction from _ use private health care? again, it is a distraction from what - use private health care? again, it is a distraction from what the i use private health care? again, itj is a distraction from what the real issueis is a distraction from what the real issue is and the real issue is are we making sure there is high quality health care available for the

country? when it comes to the private sector in general, we should be making use of the independent sector. i don�*t have any problem with that whatsoever. for example, with that whatsoever. for example, with elective surgery one of the things we do need to do is actually be much more open to using the independent sector capacity that is available and putting power in the hands of patients to choose where they want to have that treatment. that is something we need to do more of. ~ : that is something we need to do more of. . :, , :, that is something we need to do more of. ~ ., , ., ,, ., that is something we need to do more of. ., ,, ., ,, that is something we need to do more of. what should the nhs do less of? some people — of. what should the nhs do less of? some people look _ of. what should the nhs do less of? some people look at _ of. what should the nhs do less of? some people look at the _ of. what should the nhs do less of? some people look at the system i of. what should the nhs do less of? | some people look at the system now and think, you know what, it can�*t go on providing more and more and more common for a population that is getting older and older and older, partly because of some of the amazing advances in health care, it is also becoming more and more expensive. so other things that the nhs should stop doing? it is expensive. so other things that the nhs should stop doing?— nhs should stop doing? it is not about what _ nhs should stop doing? it is not about what it _ nhs should stop doing? it is not about what it should _ nhs should stop doing? it is not about what it should stop i nhs should stop doing? it is not about what it should stop doing, it�*s about making sure that we treat people in the right places. i think that�*s the thing we need to do a betterjob of. because there are lots of people who are in hospital who don�*t need to be there. that�*s about making sure that we intervene

early on, or we put people on the pathway to getting the care in their home, or in their community, or making better use of whether it is pharmacists or other new primary care workers that we have. your health secretary _ care workers that we have. your health secretary said _ care workers that we have. your health secretary said interestingly the nhs should do fewer things, prioritise the important things and do fewer things. is he wrong? right now we know _ do fewer things. is he wrong? right now we know the _ do fewer things. is he wrong? t grit now we know the important do fewer things. is he wrong? t1 grit now we know the important thing do fewer things. is he wrong? t grit now we know the important thing is we should be focused on and i�*ve been very clear about what they are, we need to make sure we do focus on waiting lists and we have a clear plan to do that. we do want to ease some of the pressures in emergency care and improve access to primary care. d0 care and improve access to primary care. y :, care and improve access to primary care. ., u,’ ., care. do you categorically rule out -a in: care. do you categorically rule out paying nurses _ care. do you categorically rule out paying nurses more _ care. do you categorically rule out paying nurses more this _ care. do you categorically rule out paying nurses more this year? i care. do you categorically rule out i paying nurses more this year? when it comes to — paying nurses more this year? when it comes to nurses, _ paying nurses more this year? when it comes to nurses, the _ paying nurses more this year? when it comes to nurses, the first - paying nurses more this year? terrier! it comes to nurses, the first thing i would say is thank you to all of them for thejob i would say is thank you to all of them for the job that they are doing, notjust at them for the job that they are doing, not just at the them for the job that they are doing, notjust at the moment but over the past two years. thea;r doing, notjust at the moment but over the past two years. they don't want to thank— over the past two years. they don't want to thank you, _ over the past two years. they don't want to thank you, they _ over the past two years. they don't want to thank you, they want i over the past two years. they don't want to thank you, they want a i over the past two years. they don't want to thank you, they want a pay| want to thank you, they want a pay increase. i want to thank you, they want a pay increase. : want to thank you, they want a pay increase. ., ., ,, ., ., increase. i want them to know that the work they _ increase. i want them to know that the work they do _ increase. i want them to know that the work they do is _ increase. i want them to know that the work they do is appreciate i increase. i want them to know that the work they do is appreciate it i the work they do is appreciate it and i�*m gratefulfor it and the government is grateful for it and that�*s important because they do a good job and have worked hard under

difficult circumstances. that�*s why we want to have a reasonable, honest two—way conversation about pay and everything else. you two-way conversation about pay and everything else-— two-way conversation about pay and everything else. you do want to have a conversation _ everything else. you do want to have a conversation about _ everything else. you do want to have a conversation about pay? _ everything else. you do want to have a conversation about pay? that i everything else. you do want to have a conversation about pay? that is i a conversation about pay? that is was been the _ a conversation about pay? that is was been the case, _ a conversation about pay? that is was been the case, the _ a conversation about pay? that is was been the case, the door- a conversation about pay? that is was been the case, the door hasl was been the case, the door has our�*s been open to talk about things that the nurses want to talk about and unions want to talk about more generally, which is why we just wrote to all the unions from across the public sector inviting them in for talks, and those talks are happening in many sectors on monday, which is great. and when it comes to pay, we have always said we want to talk about things that are reasonable, that are affordable and responsible for the country. but you could decide — responsible for the country. but you could decide right _ responsible for the country. but you could decide right here _ responsible for the country. but you could decide right here right - responsible for the country. but you could decide right here right now i responsible for the country. but you could decide right here right now to| could decide right here right now to bring the nurses�* strike to an end by saying, "let�*s talk about giving you more pay this year." i know you�*re having union talks on monday but that�*s about next year�*s pay settlement. they have been crystal clear that they believe they have to be paid more this year, and unless the government says let�*s talk about pay right here right now the strikes will go on. so how do you bring an

end to this? the will go on. so how do you bring an end to this?— will go on. so how do you bring an end to this? the first thing we need to do is start _ end to this? the first thing we need to do is start talking _ end to this? the first thing we need to do is start talking properly. i to do is start talking properly. that�*s why monday is really important. and we want to have these conversations, we want them to be honest. �* :, . ., , conversations, we want them to be honest. �* ., . ., , , ., honest. but for clarity will you talk about _ honest. but for clarity will you talk about this _ honest. but for clarity will you talk about this year's - honest. but for clarity will you talk about this year's pay i honest. but for clarity will you talk about this year's pay dealj honest. but for clarity will you i talk about this year's pay deal on talk about this year�*s pay deal on monday with the unions? the talk about this year's pay deal on monday with the unions? the most im ortant monday with the unions? the most important thing _ monday with the unions? the most important thing is _ monday with the unions? the most important thing is to _ monday with the unions? the most important thing is to be _ monday with the unions? the most important thing is to be talking. i important thing is to be talking. aboutthis yr�*s pay? it important thing is to be talking. aboutthis yr's pay?— important thing is to be talking. aboutthis yr's pay? it wouldn't be riaht aboutthis yr's pay? it wouldn't be ri . ht for aboutthis yr's pay? it wouldn't be right for me _ aboutthis yr's pay? it wouldn't be right for me to — aboutthis yr's pay? it wouldn't be right for me to see _ aboutthis yr's pay? it wouldn't be right for me to see here - aboutthis yr's pay? it wouldn't be right for me to see here and i aboutthis yr's pay? it wouldn't be right for me to see here and startj right for me to see here and start negotiations with you in public or anyone else. lip negotiations with you in public or anyone else-— negotiations with you in public or an one else. , :, :, anyone else. up until now government ministers have — anyone else. up until now government ministers have said _ anyone else. up until now government ministers have said they _ anyone else. up until now government ministers have said they will— anyone else. up until now government ministers have said they will not i ministers have said they will not discuss pay for this year. that�*s what people have been saying. are you saying something different today? yes, let�*s talk about pay for this year? today? yes, let's talk about pay for this ear? :, today? yes, let's talk about pay for this ear? ., ., , ., , this year? the government has always been clear it — this year? the government has always been clear it is _ this year? the government has always been clear it is happy _ this year? the government has always been clear it is happy to talk— this year? the government has always been clear it is happy to talk about i been clear it is happy to talk about pay that is responsible, that is affordable for the country, always that�*s been clear but we have to look now, we are about to start a new pay settlement round for this year, we are about to start that independent process, and before that process starts the government is keen to sit down with the unions and

talk about pay and make sure that they understand where we are coming from. that�*s why we have published very transparently all the evidence we have and what is affordable. i we have and what is affordable. i want to be really clear as a yes or no answer, if you can, will you talk to nurses about increasing pay this year, yes or no? taste to nurses about increasing pay this year. yes or no?— year, yes or no? we are about to start that — year, yes or no? we are about to start that process. _ year, yes or no? we are about to start that process. that's - year, yes or no? we are about to start that process. that's about | start that process. that's about next year- _ start that process. that's about next year. that _ start that process. that's about next year. that is _ start that process. that's about next year. that is literally i start that process. that's about | next year. that is literally about the ear next year. that is literally about the year we _ next year. that is literally about the year we are _ next year. that is literally about the year we are about _ next year. that is literally about the year we are about to - next year. that is literally about the year we are about to start. i next year. that is literally about i the year we are about to start. that is financial year _ the year we are about to start. that is financial year 23-24. _ the year we are about to start. that is financial year 23-24. we - the year we are about to start. that is financial year 23-24. we are i is financial year 23-24. we are about to have _ is financial year 23-24. we are about to have a _ is financial year 23-24. we are about to have a conversation. | is financial year 23-24. we are i about to have a conversation. when it comes to pay it isn�*t appropriate to have those conversations in public but the most important thing is we are talking that�*s why we have invited all union leaders from across the public sector in to have those conversations and when it comes to pay its important for everyone to remember we have an independent pay setting process for a reason because these conversations are difficult. ~ : a reason because these conversations are difficult-— are difficult. which governments have sometimes _ are difficult. which governments have sometimes ignored. it i are difficult. which governments i have sometimes ignored. it sounds like the government position on this is moving a little bit. you like the government position on this is moving a little bit.— is moving a little bit. you say governments _ is moving a little bit. you say governments have _ is moving a little bit. you say| governments have sometimes is moving a little bit. you say - governments have sometimes ignored them in this instance the government

across the board has accepted the recommendations of independent bodies when it comes to pay. taste recommendations of independent bodies when it comes to pay. we must move on because _ bodies when it comes to pay. we must move on because i _ bodies when it comes to pay. we must move on because i want _ bodies when it comes to pay. we must move on because i want to _ bodies when it comes to pay. we must move on because i want to talk- bodies when it comes to pay. we must move on because i want to talk about | move on because i want to talk about the economy. you have promised to halve inflation, that was predicted to happen anyway, you promised the economy will stop shrinking by the end of the year. some people in your party and may be tory voters might think of that i think where is the ambition? ~ _, , ., think of that i think where is the ambition? ~ , ., ., ., ambition? when it comes to inflation ou sa it ambition? when it comes to inflation you say it is — ambition? when it comes to inflation you say it is predicted _ ambition? when it comes to inflation you say it is predicted to _ ambition? when it comes to inflation you say it is predicted to happen i you say it is predicted to happen anyway. it doesn�*t happen automatically. it happens because of the plans we have put in place. that is because of the decisions we have taken in the autumn statement and that we need to stick to, so we have just been having a conversation about pay. well, making sure that we meet the inflation targets, that we do ease the burden on the cost of living is a function of having a responsible economic policy when it comes to things like pay, when it comes to things like pay, when it comes to things like pay, when it comes to areas like borrowing. so that�*s why it is not a given that it just happens, you have to continue to be disciplined and make the right responsible decisions in order to bring inflation down. it is really important that we do, it isn�*t an abstract thing, it is impacting people�*s pockets every single day

with the cost of living. we can�*t help anybody, whether it is nurses or everyone else, unless we get inflation down, that�*s why it is one of our five priorities. inflation down, that's why it is one of our five priorities.— of our five priorities. some people in our of our five priorities. some people in your party _ of our five priorities. some people in your party and _ of our five priorities. some people in your party and many _ of our five priorities. some people in your party and many tory i of our five priorities. some peoplej in your party and many tory voters might look at what you have done and think the tax burden is at the highest it has been ever, they don�*t feel excited about what you�*re putting forward for the economy and they think he�*s not really a proper conservative. i they think he's not really a proper conservative.— conservative. i think it is a deeply conservative _ conservative. i think it is a deeply conservative thing _ conservative. i think it is a deeply conservative thing to _ conservative. i think it is a deeply conservative thing to have - conservative. i think it is a deeply conservative thing to have an i conservative thing to have an economy that is built on low inflation and sound public finances. you brought up margaret thatcher earlier in this interview. it was something that was incredibly important to her which you can read about in speech after speech, so i think it�*s a deeply conservative thing to make sure the economy is managed responsibly, that inflation is brought back to where it belongs, that borrowing is responsible so we are not burdening the future generations with debt and that we are growing the economy and providing jobs for everybody everywhere. those are my priorities. when i talked about the five promises are made to the country to halve inflation, grow the economy,

reduce debt, cut waiting lists and stop the boats, there is a pretty clear set of deliverables, those are the things that matter to the country and those are the things that matter to me and that�*s what we are going to deliver. they are both right for the country and deeply conservative. we are running short of time but we don�*t often get the chance to talk like this. i�*m going to ask a couple of specific things if i may. and how you�*re finding the job. if i may. and how you're finding the 'ob. , :, a, ., if i may. and how you're finding the 'ob. , ., ., .,, if i may. and how you're finding the 'ob. ., ., ., job. john ma'or was called on to work things — job. john major was called on to work things out _ job. john major was called on to work things out when _ job. john major was called on to work things out when things i job. john major was called on toj work things out when things got difficult, between prince charles and lady diana. would you get involved? i and lady diana. would you get involved? :, :, and lady diana. would you get involved? ., ., _, ., involved? i do not comment on matters to _ involved? i do not comment on matters to do _ involved? i do not comment on matters to do with _ involved? i do not comment on matters to do with the - involved? i do not comment on matters to do with the royal. involved? i do not comment on i matters to do with the royal family. there is a precedent, the prime minister previously was called in to help. if you were called in to help, would you? i help. if you were called in to help, would you?— help. if you were called in to help, would ou? ., _, ., would you? i would never comment on matters to do — would you? i would never comment on matters to do with _ would you? i would never comment on matters to do with the _ would you? i would never comment on matters to do with the royal— would you? i would never comment on matters to do with the royal family. i matters to do with the royal family. people look to you for leadership as the prime minister and i know you don�*t want to get into the family rows, but how can the british public are facing that institution when they see this dysfunction,

allegations of fighting and betrayal at the top? do allegations of fighting and betrayal atthe to? ,, allegations of fighting and betrayal attheto? ,, , , . at the top? do you think the public and still have _ at the top? do you think the public and still have faith _ at the top? do you think the public and still have faith in _ at the top? do you think the public and still have faith in the _ and still have faith in the monarchy? i and still have faith in the monarchy?— and still have faith in the monarch ? ~' , , . ~ monarchy? i think the public, like me, have enormous _ monarchy? i think the public, like me, have enormous regard i monarchy? i think the public, like me, have enormous regard for. monarchy? i think the public, like| me, have enormous regard for the royal family and they are deeply proud of them. i certainly am it is one of the things i'm most proud of when i think about what it is to be british, when i get to go around the world and champion britain is an amazing country with so many things that we can be proud of. our institutions including the royal family are one of those. [30 institutions including the royal family are one of those. do you think the institution _ family are one of those. do you think the institution has - family are one of those. do you think the institution has been i think the institution has been damaged by this whole saga? i would not in general — damaged by this whole saga? i would not in general get _ damaged by this whole saga? i would not in general get involved _ damaged by this whole saga? i would not in general get involved in - not in general get involved in talking about the royal family but it is something i can be proud of and the whole country can be proud of and was saw that last year very movingly a number of times and i'm confident we will see at this year with king charles�*s coronation, a fantastic occasion for the country to come together and celebrate something special about britain and recognise what is happening, which is something to celebrate. you recognise what is happening, which is something to celebrate.- is something to celebrate. you are the youngest _ is something to celebrate. you are the youngest prime _ is something to celebrate. you are the youngest prime minister- is something to celebrate. you are the youngest prime minister at - is something to celebrate. you are the youngest prime minister at 42| is something to celebrate. you are i the youngest prime minister at 42 in a very long time. we are in the 13th

year of conservative rule. there is a whole generation that has come of age during that time when rents have gone through the roof, child care has become extortionate, paying more and more tax, owning a house is further and further out of reach. the polls suggest that you are someone very unusual in your early 40s who fancies voting conservative. why would anyone under 45 vote conservative? i why would anyone under 45 vote conservative?— conservative? i think the country because "s _ conservative? i think the country because 's priorities _ conservative? i think the country because 's priorities are - conservative? i think the country because 's priorities are pretty i because �*s priorities are pretty clear, to make sure we do manage their economy responsibly. that will make a difference to everybody, whatever age you are. you talked about buying a house, it will be harder to do if interest rates are higher. why are they higher? because inflation is high. we need to get interest rates down and inflation down which is why the priority i set out this year was to inflation and to grow the economy because i wanted to be fantasticjobs in every part of the country for those young people. you talked about the next generation of us that we shouldn't

burden them with debts, that's why we should reduce borrowing debt. and in the last two are important, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats. i think everyone cares about those. everyone has a family member who at any point in time is relying on the nhs, whether a grandparent who needs a hip operation of the man who has had to be rushed to emergency care or someone whojust be rushed to emergency care or someone who just needs to see the gp for their kids's ear infections so having a really well performing nhs is important to everyone. stopping about boats is about fairness and i think that is a value everyone in this country believes in, regardless of what age you are, and having a system which is seen as unfair because people are abusing is on the right thing. it is not the right long—term think that this country. i think we will keep hearing a lot about these five pledges in the coming months but we are not that far off from a general election. just finally, the polls put you in a worse position than the government was during the worst days of party gates when you are still next door or may be that way to number 11, i'm

not sure of my geography. some of your colleagues in parliament think that there is no way back for the conservative party now and actually being out of office for a while to renew, have a thing, dust yourself down and work out what you really stand for is the best option. do you fear if the polls are correct at the moment, do you fear a sort of 1997 style wipe—out on your watch? what style wipe-out on your watch? what the country — style wipe-out on your watch? what the country once _ style wipe-out on your watch? what the country once as _ style wipe-out on your watch? what the country once as a _ the country once as a government thatis the country once as a government that is focused on the things that matter to them. i think there priorities are clear and that is why they are my priorities and i set them out very clearly this week. our plan my plan is to deliver on them and i think actually, if we can halve inflation and grow the economy, reduce debt, cut waiting lists and stop the boats, then the country will recognise that. but thatis country will recognise that. but that is all i'm focused on, it's about delivering for the country on the things that matter to them. lastly, what do you say to people in your party rather hope, some of them, that the future might feature

your old boss borisjohnson? what your old boss borisjohnson? what you say to people who fancy him making a comeback? i you say to people who fancy him making a comeback?— making a comeback? i think everyone in our party — making a comeback? i think everyone in our party once _ making a comeback? i think everyone in our party once the _ in our party once the country's priority is to be met and they want the conservative party in the conservative government to do a good job of delivering for the british people. right now, what the british people. right now, what the british people want other things we have promised to do. it is to halve inflation, grow the economy, reduce debt, cut waiting lists and stop the boats. those are the things that matter to the country and those of the things that matter to me in the conservative government and this year people will see us really work our socks off to deliver for them. prime minister, thank you so much for talking to us and being so generous with your time. tonnes to get into — and i'm sure that he's refusal to talk about whether he has private healthcare will get a lot of people going. pat cullen, the prime minister didn't say he would give you more money but signalled a willingness for the first time to talk about this year's pay. has he open the door to you doing a deal, do you think? ~ , ., .,

think? when i listened to that, there was _ think? when i listened to that, there was a — think? when i listened to that, there was a chink _ think? when i listened to that, there was a chink of _ think? when i listened to that, there was a chink of optimism. think? when i listened to that, - there was a chink of optimism. there was a _ there was a chink of optimism. there was a little _ there was a chink of optimism. there was a little shift _ there was a chink of optimism. there was a little shift in _ there was a chink of optimism. there was a little shift in what _ there was a chink of optimism. there was a little shift in what the - there was a chink of optimism. there was a little shift in what the prime i was a little shift in what the prime minister was saying. _ was a little shift in what the prime minister was saying. however, - was a little shift in what the prime| minister was saying. however, and this is— minister was saying. however, and this is really— minister was saying. however, and this is really important. _ minister was saying. however, and this is really important. at- this is really important. at tomorrows _ this is really important. at tomorrow's meeting, - this is really important. at- tomorrow's meeting, festival, general— tomorrow's meeting, festival, general secretaries _ tomorrow's meeting, festival, general secretaries are - tomorrow's meeting, festival, general secretaries are not - tomorrow's meeting, festival, general secretaries are not ati tomorrow's meeting, festival, i general secretaries are not at the table _ general secretaries are not at the table tomorrow. _ general secretaries are not at the table tomorrow. you _ general secretaries are not at the table tomorrow.— general secretaries are not at the table tomorrow. you won't be there at the big meeting? _ table tomorrow. you won't be there at the big meeting? we _ table tomorrow. you won't be there at the big meeting? we will - table tomorrow. you won't be there at the big meeting? we will be - table tomorrow. you won't be there | at the big meeting? we will be there but aeneral at the big meeting? we will be there but general secretaries _ at the big meeting? we will be there but general secretaries won't - at the big meeting? we will be there but general secretaries won't be - but general secretaries won't be there _ but general secretaries won't be there this— but general secretaries won't be there this is— but general secretaries won't be there. this is not about - there. this is not about negotiations— there. this is not aboutj negotiations tomorrow. there. this is not about . negotiations tomorrow. it there. this is not about - negotiations tomorrow. it is not about— negotiations tomorrow. it is not about nurses' _ negotiations tomorrow. it is not about nurses' pay— negotiations tomorrow. it is not about nurses' pay and _ negotiations tomorrow. it is not about nurses' pay and it's - negotiations tomorrow. it is not about nurses' pay and it's not. about nurses' pay and it's not addressing _ about nurses' pay and it's not addressing the _ about nurses' pay and it's not addressing the issues - about nurses' pay and it's not addressing the issues that. about nurses' pay and it's not| addressing the issues that are our dispute. _ addressing the issues that are our dispute. and — addressing the issues that are our dispute, and that— addressing the issues that are our dispute, and that is— addressing the issues that are our dispute, and that is addressing. addressing the issues that are ourl dispute, and that is addressing pay for 2022-25 — dispute, and that is addressing pay for2022—23. but— dispute, and that is addressing pay for 2022—23. but we _ dispute, and that is addressing pay for 2022—23. but we will— dispute, and that is addressing pay for 2022—23. but we will be - dispute, and that is addressing pay for 2022—23. but we will be there, | for 2022—23. but we will be there, we will— for 2022—23. but we will be there, we will put — for 2022—23. but we will be there, we will put our _ for 2022—23. but we will be there, we will put our case. _ for 2022—23. but we will be there, we will put our case. but - for 2022—23. but we will be there, we will put our case. but what the| we will put our case. but what the government— we will put our case. but what the government want— we will put our case. but what the government want to _ we will put our case. but what the government want to talk - we will put our case. but what the government want to talk about. government want to talk about tomorrow— government want to talk about tomorrow is _ government want to talk about tomorrow is pay— government want to talk about tomorrow is pay moving - government want to talk about| tomorrow is pay moving forward and in the _ tomorrow is pay moving forward and in the broadest— tomorrow is pay moving forward and in the broadest terms, _ tomorrow is pay moving forward and in the broadest terms, and - tomorrow is pay moving forward and in the broadest terms, and that - tomorrow is pay moving forward and in the broadest terms, and that is l in the broadest terms, and that is not going — in the broadest terms, and that is not going to — in the broadest terms, and that is not going to avert _ in the broadest terms, and that is not going to avert the _ in the broadest terms, and that is not going to avert the strike - in the broadest terms, and that isi not going to avert the strike action that is— not going to avert the strike action that is planned _ not going to avert the strike action that is planned for— not going to avert the strike action that is planned for ten _ not going to avert the strike action that is planned for ten days' - not going to avert the strike action that is planned for ten days' time. | that is planned for ten days' time. so we _ that is planned for ten days' time. so we can— that is planned for ten days' time. so we can see _ that is planned for ten days' time. so we can see now— that is planned for ten days' time. so we can see now some - that is planned for ten days' time. so we can see now some pictures| that is planned for ten days' time. l so we can see now some pictures of you being on the picket line in the last days of strike action. i'm interested that you do sound,

whatever the specifics of tomorrow's meeting, you say there is a chink of optimism. due to take notjust from that interview but generally that that interview but generally that that government is moving? the prime minister talked _ that government is moving? the prime minister talked about _ that government is moving? the prime minister talked about coming _ that government is moving? the prime minister talked about coming to - that government is moving? the prime minister talked about coming to the . minister talked about coming to the table _ minister talked about coming to the table that — minister talked about coming to the table that is — minister talked about coming to the table that is a _ minister talked about coming to the table. that is a move _ minister talked about coming to the table. that is a move for— minister talked about coming to the table. that is a move for me - table. that is a move for me because i table. that is a move for me because i have _ table. that is a move for me because i have said _ table. that is a move for me because i have said let's— table. that is a move for me because i have said let's meet— table. that is a move for me because i have said let's meet halfway. - i have said let's meet halfway. grasp— i have said let's meet halfway. grasp the _ i have said let's meet halfway. grasp the nettle, _ i have said let's meet halfway. grasp the nettle, come to - i have said let's meet halfway. grasp the nettle, come to thei grasp the nettle, come to the table, i grasp the nettle, come to the table, i can't _ grasp the nettle, come to the table, lcan't negotiate _ grasp the nettle, come to the table, i can't negotiate on _ grasp the nettle, come to the table, i can't negotiate on my— grasp the nettle, come to the table, i can't negotiate on my own - grasp the nettle, come to the table, i can't negotiate on my own and - grasp the nettle, come to the table, i can't negotiate on my own and i. i can't negotiate on my own and i can't _ i can't negotiate on my own and i can't negotiate _ i can't negotiate on my own and i can't negotiate on _ i can't negotiate on my own and i can't negotiate on the _ i can't negotiate on my own and i can't negotiate on the airwaves. i i can't negotiate on my own and i. can't negotiate on the airwaves. so if that— can't negotiate on the airwaves. so if that table — can't negotiate on the airwaves. so if that table is _ can't negotiate on the airwaves. so if that table is now _ can't negotiate on the airwaves. so if that table is now available, - if that table is now available, i will he — if that table is now available, i will be there _ if that table is now available, i will be there on— if that table is now available, i will be there on behalf- if that table is now available, i will be there on behalf of- if that table is now available, i will be there on behalf of the i if that table is now available, i - will be there on behalf of the over 300,000 — will be there on behalf of the over 300,000 members— will be there on behalf of the over 300,000 members participated l will be there on behalf of the over| 300,000 members participated in will be there on behalf of the over- 300,000 members participated in this ballot _ 300,000 members participated in this ballot but— 300,000 members participated in this ballot but it _ 300,000 members participated in this ballot. but it must, _ 300,000 members participated in this ballot. but it must, it— 300,000 members participated in this ballot. but it must, it must— 300,000 members participated in this ballot. but it must, it must be - ballot. but it must, it must be about— ballot. but it must, it must be about addressing _ ballot. but it must, it must be about addressing pay- ballot. but it must, it must be about addressing pay for- ballot. but it must, it must be - about addressing pay for 2022—23. and that _ about addressing pay for 2022—23. and that is — about addressing pay for 2022—23. and that is what _ about addressing pay for 2022—23. and that is what we _ about addressing pay for 2022—23. and that is what we were - about addressing pay for 2022—23. and that is what we were trying. about addressing pay for 2022—23. and that is what we were trying to| and that is what we were trying to clarify from him. i did my best to get clarification for what he meant. you run one of the biggest hospitals in the country and we asked the prime minister whether he understands the gravity of the situation. did it sound to you like he understands it? ida.

situation. did it sound to you like he understands it?— situation. did it sound to you like he understands it? no, if i'm being honest. ithink— he understands it? no, if i'm being honest. i think he _ he understands it? no, if i'm being honest. i think he seemed - he understands it? no, if i'm being honest. i think he seemed to - he understands it? no, if i'm being honest. i think he seemed to focus| honest. i think he seemed to focus rather more on the fact that we are doing well on elective recovery and i think to be fair we are doing well. . . , ., , ., well. catching up on planned operations? _ well. catching up on planned operations? indeed - well. catching up on planned operations? indeed but - well. catching up on planned operations? indeed but it- well. catching up on planned| operations? indeed but it has well. catching up on planned . operations? indeed but it has to well. catching up on planned - operations? indeed but it has to be said, even operations? indeed but it has to be said. even at— operations? indeed but it has to be said, even at king's _ operations? indeed but it has to be said, even at king's where - operations? indeed but it has to be said, even at king's where we - said, even at king's where we have had a peek at one point of 7000 patients waiting over a year, that is down to 800, still a great improvement. but for the patients waiting a long peered of time that is very significant and it is put at risk because of the current pressures they are under. i don't think i had the grasp of the fact that this is a really, really difficult situation. the only thing i would say is this is not a one off, this is not a quick fix, this is notjust a winter 2022—23 problem. there is going to be quite a time to fix this. and i think we need, we need some realistic conversations about the situation we are in, how difficult it is, what the public can expect and i think

the public can expect and i think the suggestion that there is going to be a quick fix, a sticking plaster is not a reality. you are an economist — plaster is not a reality. you are an economist by _ plaster is not a reality. you are an economist by trade _ plaster is not a reality. you are an economist by trade but _ plaster is not a reality. you are an economist by trade but have - plaster is not a reality. you are an economist by trade but have beenj economist by trade but have been around the political world for a long time. very striking rishi sunak didn't want to get into the question of if he uses private health care. does it matter to you if he does or not? i does it matter to you if he does or not? ~ , does it matter to you if he does or not? ~' , ., , ,., , ., not? i think there is absolutely a case for people _ not? i think there is absolutely a case for people coming - not? i think there is absolutely a case for people coming clean - not? i think there is absolutely a | case for people coming clean and not? i think there is absolutely a - case for people coming clean and for being _ case for people coming clean and for being clear— case for people coming clean and for being clear about that. i think per se it need — being clear about that. i think per se it need not matter. people's private — se it need not matter. people's private choices, provided there is clarity— private choices, provided there is clarity about that and provided it doesn't — clarity about that and provided it doesn't detract from their views on the public— doesn't detract from their views on the public provision of health. pat, did it bother _ the public provision of health. pat, did it bother you? _ the public provision of health. pat, did it bother you? i _ the public provision of health. pat, did it bother you? i think _ the public provision of health. pat, did it bother you? i think as - the public provision of health. pat, did it bother you? i think as a - did it bother you? i think as a ublic did it bother you? i think as a public servant, _ did it bother you? i think as a public servant, you _ did it bother you? i think as a public servant, you ought - did it bother you? i think as a public servant, you ought to l did it bother you? i think as a i public servant, you ought to be clear— public servant, you ought to be clear with — public servant, you ought to be clear with the _ public servant, you ought to be clear with the public _ public servant, you ought to be| clear with the public whether or public servant, you ought to be - clear with the public whether or not you are _ clear with the public whether or not you are using — clear with the public whether or not you are using private _ clear with the public whether or not you are using private health - clear with the public whether or not you are using private health and - you are using private health and cover~ _ you are using private health and cover~ that _ you are using private health and cover~ that is— you are using private health and cover. that is about _ you are using private health and cover. that is about being - you are using private health and| cover. that is about being open, it's cover. that is about being open, its about — cover. that is about being open, it's about being _ cover. that is about being open, it's about being transparent - cover. that is about being open, it's about being transparent and | it's about being transparent and it's about being transparent and it's about — it's about being transparent and it's about honesty. _ it's about being transparent and it's about honesty. and - it's about being transparent and it's about honesty. and those i it's about being transparent and i it's about honesty. and those are characteristics that _ it's about honesty. and those are characteristics that if— it's about honesty. and those are characteristics that if you -

it's about honesty. and those are characteristics that if you were i suppose — characteristics that if you were i suppose talking _ characteristics that if you were i suppose talking to _ characteristics that if you were i suppose talking to the - characteristics that if you were i suppose talking to the public, l characteristics that if you were i- suppose talking to the public, which i suppose talking to the public, which i have _ suppose talking to the public, which i have done — suppose talking to the public, which i have done over— suppose talking to the public, which i have done over this— suppose talking to the public, which i have done over this last _ i have done over this last final picket— i have done over this last final picket lines. _ i have done over this last final picket lines, that _ i have done over this last final picket lines, that are - picket lines, that are characteristics - picket lines, that are characteristics that. picket lines, that are - characteristics that seem to be missing — characteristics that seem to be missing at _ characteristics that seem to be missing at the _ characteristics that seem to be missing at the minute. - characteristics that seem to be missing at the minute. i- characteristics that seem to be missing at the minute. i thinkl characteristics that seem to be . missing at the minute. i think he needed _ missing at the minute. i think he needed to— missing at the minute. i think he needed to come _ missing at the minute. i think he needed to come clean, _ missing at the minute. i think he needed to come clean, as - missing at the minute. i think he needed to come clean, as a - missing at the minute. i think he i needed to come clean, as a public servant _ needed to come clean, as a public servant he — needed to come clean, as a public servant he is— needed to come clean, as a public servant. he is elected _ needed to come clean, as a public servant. he is elected by- needed to come clean, as a public servant. he is elected by the - servant. he is elected by the public, — servant. he is elected by the public, so _ servant. he is elected by the public, so he _ servant. he is elected by the public, so he is _ servant. he is elected by the public, so he is accountablel servant. he is elected by the i public, so he is accountable to servant. he is elected by the - public, so he is accountable to the public _ public, so he is accountable to the public and — public, so he is accountable to the public. and when _ public, so he is accountable to the public. and when you _ public, so he is accountable to the public. and when you are - public, so he is accountable to the i public. and when you are accountable to the _ public. and when you are accountable to the public, you _ public. and when you are accountable to the public, you have _ public. and when you are accountable to the public, you have to _ public. and when you are accountable to the public, you have to be - public. and when you are accountable to the public, you have to be honest. to the public, you have to be honest with them — to the public, you have to be honest with them. �* , ., ., to the public, you have to be honest with them. �* , . ., .., , with them. andy haldane com he is also accountable _ with them. andy haldane com he is also accountable on _ with them. andy haldane com he is also accountable on the _ with them. andy haldane com he is also accountable on the economy. i j also accountable on the economy. i was asking about whether or not what he is doing, trying to get inflation down, trying to get the debt down, really adds up to a sort of true conservative programme. because there are lots of people, maybe lots of watching this morning who think it is all a bit soggy centrist. from your analysis of what the government is up to, is it a proper conservative programme? i is up to, is it a proper conservative programme? i think as thins conservative programme? i think as things stand. _ conservative programme? i think as things stand, it's _ conservative programme? i think as things stand, it's not _ conservative programme? i think as things stand, it's not a _ conservative programme? i think as things stand, it's not a programme. things stand, it's not a programme at alt _ things stand, it's not a programme at alt i_ things stand, it's not a programme at all. i think we are currently short— at all. i think we are currently short of— at all. i think we are currently short of that piece of the jigsaw puzzle. — short of that piece of the jigsaw puzzle, which is, what is the plan that is— puzzle, which is, what is the plan that is going to boost growth over the medium term? allow public

service — the medium term? allow public service to — the medium term? allow public service to be picked up and paid for properly. _ service to be picked up and paid for properly, we are still missing that. there _ properly, we are still missing that. there were — properly, we are still missing that. there were hints of it in the prime minister's — there were hints of it in the prime minister's speech earlier in the week_ minister's speech earlier in the week and — minister's speech earlier in the week and from the leader of the opposition's speech earlier in the week _ opposition's speech earlier in the week that— opposition's speech earlier in the week. that is still falling somewhat short _ week. that is still falling somewhat short of— week. that is still falling somewhat short of that plan. did week. that is still falling somewhat short of that plan.— short of that plan. did he have any choice, though? _ short of that plan. did he have any choice, though? in _ short of that plan. did he have any choice, though? in the _ short of that plan. did he have any choice, though? in the months - short of that plan. did he have any . choice, though? in the months before christmas we talked a lot about how the government had to take what they thought as emergency action, after the fireworks of liz truss. do they have any choice right now but to do what they are doing, just try and rebuild things brick by brick? stabilising the ship absolutely was the first— stabilising the ship absolutely was the first priority end of last year. but this— the first priority end of last year. but this is— the first priority end of last year. but this is the year where optimism and innovation and investment will only happen if people have some sense _ only happen if people have some sense of— only happen if people have some sense of a brighter tomorrow for the economy _ sense of a brighter tomorrow for the economy. that is the main reason why businesses _ economy. that is the main reason why businesses are holding back in investing — businesses are holding back in investing right now. that is why the plan really — investing right now. that is why the plan really matters. put in place today— plan really matters. put in place today with — plan really matters. put in place today with expectations for

improvement tomorrow. just quickly, ou are improvement tomorrow. just quickly, you are someone _ improvement tomorrow. just quickly, you are someone who _ improvement tomorrow. just quickly, you are someone who at _ improvement tomorrow. just quickly, you are someone who at the bank- improvement tomorrow. just quickly, you are someone who at the bank of| you are someone who at the bank of england was can i say in the minority for a long time, shouting about the risk of inflation. can you tell people this morning when it will start coming down when we will feel it? i will start coming down when we will feel it? ~ , , feel it? i think it is piqued it headhne feel it? i think it is piqued it headline terms _ feel it? i think it is piqued it headline terms are - feel it? i think it is piqued it headline terms are ready i feel it? i think it is piqued it| headline terms are ready for some this year will be the year it falls. if this year will be the year it falls. if for— this year will be the year it falls. if for no— this year will be the year it falls. if for no other reason than last year's — if for no other reason than last year's energy price rises will drop out of— year's energy price rises will drop out of the — year's energy price rises will drop out of the annual comparison nonetheless, underlying here is a still very— nonetheless, underlying here is a still very tight labour market. lots of unfilled — still very tight labour market. lots of unfilled vacancies that is putting _ of unfilled vacancies that is putting upwards pressure on pay and that for— putting upwards pressure on pay and that for me _ putting upwards pressure on pay and that for me will lead to inflation above _ that for me will lead to inflation above its — that for me will lead to inflation above its 2% target for a while yet. strikes _ above its 2% target for a while yet. strikes across so many sectors and we have all seen them in the last few weeks, whether it's nurses, rail, posties, what cost is that industrial action having to the economy, do you think? it is having some cost in _ economy, do you think? it is having some cost in disruption _ economy, do you think? it is having some cost in disruption for- economy, do you think? it is having some cost in disruption for sure, i some cost in disruption for sure, it's having — some cost in disruption for sure, it's having some cost. but to be clear. _ it's having some cost. but to be clear. the — it's having some cost. but to be clear, the underlying problem is not

strikes _ clear, the underlying problem is not strikes per— clear, the underlying problem is not strikes per se, it's a shortage of people — strikes per se, it's a shortage of people we _ strikes per se, it's a shortage of people. we are short of people in this country, notjust in the nhs but in _ this country, notjust in the nhs but in pretty much every sector and pretty— but in pretty much every sector and pretty much every region. that is what _ pretty much every region. that is what is _ pretty much every region. that is what is causing the problems. that is what _ what is causing the problems. that is what is _ what is causing the problems. that is what is putting upwards pressure on pay, _ is what is putting upwards pressure on pay, that is causing the underlying cost of living crisis. pat, _ underlying cost of living crisis. pat. when _ underlying cost of living crisis. pat, when you hear the disruption to the economy and to our view is that all the strikes are causing, this is an apolitical game for the unions and it seems at the moment that most of the public is on the side of the nurses but there are people who are looking at what's happening in thinking, this isn't a game, get back to work. what you say to there? it doesn't feel like a game for any nurse. _ it doesn't feel like a game for any nurse, absolutely not. _ it doesn't feel like a game for any nurse, absolutely not. laura, - it doesn't feel like a game for any nurse, absolutely not. laura, wel nurse, absolutely not. laura, we have _ nurse, absolutely not. laura, we have had — nurse, absolutely not. laura, we have had two— nurse, absolutely not. laura, we have had two days _ nurse, absolutely not. laura, we have had two days of _ nurse, absolutely not. laura, we have had two days of strike and. nurse, absolutely not. laura, wei have had two days of strike and it was the _ have had two days of strike and it was the hardest _ have had two days of strike and it was the hardest thing _ have had two days of strike and it was the hardest thing that - have had two days of strike and it was the hardest thing that i- have had two days of strike and it was the hardest thing that i havel was the hardest thing that i have done _ was the hardest thing that i have done in _ was the hardest thing that i have done in my— was the hardest thing that i have done in my 42— was the hardest thing that i have done in my 42 years _ was the hardest thing that i have done in my 42 years of _ was the hardest thing that i have done in my 42 years of nursing. i done in my 42 years of nursing. there _ done in my 42 years of nursing. there is— done in my 42 years of nursing. there is absolutely— done in my 42 years of nursing. there is absolutely no - done in my 42 years of nursing. there is absolutely no nurse - done in my 42 years of nursing. i there is absolutely no nurse who wants _ there is absolutely no nurse who wants to — there is absolutely no nurse who wants to do _ there is absolutely no nurse who wants to do this. _ there is absolutely no nurse who wants to do this. but _ there is absolutely no nurse who wants to do this. but nurses - there is absolutely no nurse who wants to do this. but nurses are i wants to do this. but nurses are getting — wants to do this. but nurses are getting poorer~ _ wants to do this. but nurses are getting poorer. they— wants to do this. but nurses are getting poorer. they cannot - wants to do this. but nurses are - getting poorer. they cannot manage to survive _ getting poorer. they cannot manage to survive on — getting poorer. they cannot manage to survive on the _ getting poorer. they cannot manage to survive on the wages _ getting poorer. they cannot manage to survive on the wages that - getting poorer. they cannot manage to survive on the wages that this - to survive on the wages that this government— to survive on the wages that this government is giving _ to survive on the wages that this government is giving them - to survive on the wages that this

government is giving them and i to survive on the wages that this . government is giving them and they are not— government is giving them and they are not being — government is giving them and they are not being listened to. _ government is giving them and they are not being listened to. so - are not being listened to. so something _ are not being listened to. so something has— are not being listened to. so something has to _ are not being listened to. so something has to give - are not being listened to. so something has to give here i are not being listened to. so i something has to give here and are not being listened to. so - something has to give here and the only way— something has to give here and the only way that — something has to give here and the only way that it _ something has to give here and the only way that it appears _ something has to give here and the only way that it appears that this i only way that it appears that this government— only way that it appears that this government is— only way that it appears that this government is going _ only way that it appears that this government is going to- only way that it appears that this government is going to listen- only way that it appears that this i government is going to listen to the people _ government is going to listen to the people that — government is going to listen to the people that are _ government is going to listen to the people that are holding _ government is going to listen to the people that are holding this - people that are holding this health service _ people that are holding this health service together— people that are holding this health service together is _ people that are holding this health service together is to _ people that are holding this health service together is to actually- people that are holding this health service together is to actually use i service together is to actually use their— service together is to actually use their voice — service together is to actually use their voice and _ service together is to actually use their voice and stand _ service together is to actually use their voice and stand on - service together is to actually use their voice and stand on picket. their voice and stand on picket lines _ their voice and stand on picket lines and — their voice and stand on picket lines and say— their voice and stand on picket lines and say enough - their voice and stand on picket lines and say enough is - their voice and stand on picketi lines and say enough is enough. their voice and stand on picket- lines and say enough is enough. is a lines and say enough is enough. as a hosital lines and say enough is enough. as a hospital boss. _ lines and say enough is enough. hospital boss, clive, how do lines and say enough is enough. 1 hospital boss, clive, how do you lines and say enough is enough.- hospital boss, clive, how do you see the situation question that you're not one of the people in the negotiating room but what is your take on this, having to grapple with the reality? i take on this, having to grapple with the reali ? ~ ., , take on this, having to grapple with the reali ? ~ .,, y., the reality? i think as you say, i'm a hosital the reality? i think as you say, i'm a hospital chief— the reality? i think as you say, i'm a hospital chief executive, - the reality? i think as you say, i'm a hospital chief executive, i'm - the reality? i think as you say, i'm a hospital chief executive, i'm not| a hospital chief executive, i'm not involved directly on pay negotiation but it's one of my duties to ensure my colleagues are rewarded fairly for the job they do. i see the amazing work nurses do day in and day out. i'm fully aware of the impact of the cost of living crisis on them. i say two things: i think we should reward them, we should reward them, and i think the second thing i would say is we know pretty much from history, the salter disputes are only resolved by people getting around the table, for the

sake of our staff and patients and the situation we are in now, we should do that sooner rather than later. ~ . . , should do that sooner rather than later. . .. , ., should do that sooner rather than later. ., �*, later. watch this space and let's see where their _ later. watch this space and let's see where their pat _ later. watch this space and let's see where their pat cummins i later. watch this space and let's. see where their pat cummins and rishi sunak are in a room before too long. we wa nt to we want to hear from you. you can get in touch with us on social media. e—mail us anytime on kuenssberg@bbc.co.uk and use @bbclaurak on social media. now time to sit back and relax a bit, maybe grab some popcorn — because i've been talking to one of the most successful brits around, hollywood and starry stage director, sir sam mendes. his epic stage production about the lehman brothers, remember them, has come back in glory from the united states to the uk, and his new film, empire of light, is about to open in cinemas. it takes you right back to the torrid atmosphere of the early 805, if you're old enough to remember it. but it's personal too — telling the story of a middle aged woman struggling with a mental breakdown —

an echo of sir sam's own mum's story and played by that huge star, olivia colman. here he is. did i humiliate myself? what? tell me, did i? no, it wasn't humiliating. it wasjust... ..intense. to be honest, i thoughtl you were a bit of a hero. she chuckles that's very nice of you. hard to believe. the stigma that is still attached, to mental illness, there's still a cloak of darkness that's thrown over it. you know, if you come out of hospital and you've just recovered from, say, cancer, i'm immediately saying to you, "how are you?" if you come out of a mental health facility, i don't talk about it. i probably won't ask you the question.

so there's still that strange stigma attached to it and my goal primarily in the movie was to try and dramatise the effect and what it is to live through bipolar and manic depression, rather than to explain it. banging at door hilary, please open the door. banging continues there's a scene where they're banging on her door to take her out to a mental hospital and she's fighting with every fibre of her being to not go in, and yet she has already packed her bag because she knows she needs help. and it's possible — that state of denial — to believe both things, to not want to go in and do need to not want to go in and to need to go at the same time. and that was what i was trying to articulate in the film. and she sits with her coat on? yeah, she knows they're coming and she knows she has to go. it is also a love story. there are sex scenes in it and olivia colman, i saw talking about the film, said she begged you to take them out. as a director, why do we still need to actually have

sex scenes in films? well, she didn't actually beg me to take them out. she was joking when she said that and i think that got pulled out of context. she was very embarrassed about performing the sex scenes, as is often the case. i suppose the answer to your question is because you're seeing people at their rawest, at their most emotionally vulnerable and it's like anything — you're trying to push a little further into the places that you're not normally allowed to go into. you know, you're going behind the curtain, as it were, and i wanted to see their physical desire. you are also paying tribute to the cinema and its role to cinema and its role as a place in a community, as well as the sort of act of going to the cinema and watching films. but if you look at our high streets now, even if you look at the balances of huge, big multiplex companies, i mean, cineworld's just going under, why do you think cinemas are struggling to get people through the door? the problem is trying to keep the event of going to the cinema, the destination, the specialness of it, and i think that puts demands on the movie makers to make movies that need to be seen

on the big screens. when i made 1917, i was actively wanting to make a movie that was immersive and you experienced in a different way when you were sitting in a big cinema. with this movie, is there a big difference between experiencing it at the cinema and seeing it on streaming? there's less of a difference. but then i look back at my films and i think, well, american beauty, revolutionary road, away we go, these would all go to streaming now. really? and that makes me sad. yeah, i think so, i think so, because i think those middle—budget movies don't get made for cinemas any more and you look movies don't get made for cinemas anymore and you look at the multiplexes... and people go, there're six screens, and then you go to those six screens and it says screen 1, avatar, screen 2, avatar, screen 3, avatar... you know, that's not a six—screen cinema, that's just six screens showing the same movie and that is a different understanding of why those buildings were created in the first place. what it means is film—makers have to accept and embrace the ambition of a big screen and make things that need to be seen on a big screen.

or they accept that they are going to be seen by millions of people on streaming, which is no bad thing. but the 20th century, the great era of movies, the great entertainment form which was going out to the movies — that is dying. let's talk about another art form. i mean, you are one of the few creatives, perhaps, who's managed... you know, they have this double whammy of success of keeping a really successful foot in theatre and a hugely successful foot in cinema. you're bringing the lehman trilogy back to london. he had been dreaming of america. three brothers, travellers, immigrants, they came with nothing — not even a word of english, and they built an entire universe. and it's this truly epic story. crucially, only three actors who play, throughout the span of more of a century, they must play dozens of parts between them and all ages, all genders, all different kinds of people. do you think any actor can play any role?

it depends on the kind of play. i think that, you know, the joy of theatre, particularly after the literalness of movies in many ways, is that you unlock an audience's imagination and the moment you have in lehman someone turn around and play an 18—year—old girl, will play somebody that's patently not... and even the character, their core characters... you know, simon russell beale was playing henry, now nigel lindsay in the west end revival, a man who died in his 30s. well, they're both actors in their 505, you know? but it didn't matter because it releases the imagination and i think that if you find the right form, anyone can play anything. a young actor, emma corrin, suggested recently that at the oscars the gender—based categories should go. there should just be gender—neutral categories for the awards. i mean, as somebody who's no stranger to picking up the odd statuette, would that be sensible? do you have sympathy with that idea? i have total sympathy with it, yeah, and i think it might well be inevitable in the end. really, why? because i think that's the way it's

moving and i think that it's perfectly reasonable to, you know... i mean, for me, people forget with awards, i think this happens all the time, they use it as a bellwether for the industry. but the truth is, awards are a tv show. you know, awards are there to promote films. if that film wins an award, i'm more likely to go and see it, and that's what you're doing there. it's not about yourself, it's not about the art or craft of the industry especially, it's about selling films. is that easy for someone to say who's won an awful lot of them, to dismiss the importance of them? i'm not dismissing the importance of them but i'm saying that they were there to promote films and the craft and art of films. they're the shop window but they're not the thing itself. you have spoken out before about this government's attitude to arts funding. if the prime minister was sitting in here, what would you say to him? what i would say to him is, please try and correct the wrongs of the last year and now please, look properly at how to fund this. you're not asking for a fortune

but the gradual erosion of the arts in this country over the last ten years has been a scandal. so the headline is, oh, london should have one less opera company, which seems to be the way that people have taken it. but, really, it's about destroying the texture and the fabric of the arts that have been built up for decades by people who really care and really know about it and are passionate. it's across the board and it's not just the subsidised theatres, it's the commercial theatres. it's the independent producers, it's theatre in the community. it's all sort of things — and outreach schemes — and it's a single organism. so i, of course, complained about the donmar because the donmar was the theatre that i founded. close to your heart, yeah. and i love it but, you know, i can see that's a very glamorous west end theatre. but it's notjust that, it's across—the—board. and the idea that the 2a million they've taken and robbed from these theatres in london is going to somehow solve the problem of arts not being funded in the regions is ridiculous. it's just two wrongs don't make a right. ok, sam mendes, thank you so much for talking to us, it's been a real pleasure.

it's a pleasure, thanks, laura. now, someone who's keen to stop being an understudy in our political drama is wes streeting — labour's shadow health secretary — who's back in the studio with us today — great to see you. happy new year. to use private health care? — happy new year. to use private health care? no _ happy new year. to use private health care? no and _ happy new year. to use private health care? no and the - happy new year. to use private health care? no and the prime l health care? no and the prime minister gave _ health care? no and the prime minister gave the _ health care? no and the prime minister gave the impression l health care? no and the prime | minister gave the impression in health care? no and the prime - minister gave the impression in that interview of being somebody doesn't use the nhs or have a handle on the challenges. he can get people around the table in number 10 for a photo op, he can do more sticking plasters to get us through this winter, but we need fundamental change in the nhs to deal with what is the biggest crisis in its history and that's what labour is looking to do. if people can afford private health kind of rishi sunak is perhaps paying for private health care, people can afford it, is there anything wrong with that? fine people can afford it, is there anything wrong with that? one of the thin . s anything wrong with that? one of the thins i anything wrong with that? one of the things i have — anything wrong with that? one of the things i have a _ anything wrong with that? one of the things i have a concern _ anything wrong with that? one of the things i have a concern with, - things i have a concern with, because the nhs is in such a mess we have a two—tier health care system at the moment in this country where people who can afford to pay private do and those who can't are left

behind. ~ . ., do and those who can't are left behind. ~ i. , ., , do and those who can't are left behind. , , behind. we will come your plans but is there anything _ behind. we will come your plans but is there anything wrong _ behind. we will come your plans but is there anything wrong with - behind. we will come your plans but is there anything wrong with people | is there anything wrong with people making that choice? it is is there anything wrong with people making that choice?— making that choice? it is a free count , making that choice? it is a free country. peeple _ making that choice? it is a free country, people can _ making that choice? it is a free country, people can make - making that choice? it is a free country, people can make that| country, people can make that choice, but i want to make sure that people, whether they can afford it or not, get access to great quality health care in this country, free at the point of need. that is that is what is great about the nhs. what isn't great about the nhs at the moment is that more than a decade of conservative mismanagement has left us with huge waiting lists, the largest in history. 2 million people at last count waiting more than a month to see the gp, that was back in october. the nhs is in crisis and we need a plan to fix the fundamentals, notjust do more sticking plasters, or worse still, to run the service down to the point where the nhs no longer exists. if where the nhs no longer exists. if you were in government labour would give a lot of cash to the private sector. you said this weekend nearly 250,000 people no more patients would be treated by the private sector but some people in your party and in the union movement think, hang on a minute, why would a labour

government get taxpayers to top of the profits of corporate big companies? let the profits of corporate big companies?— the profits of corporate big comanies? ., ~ ., ., ., companies? let me take that head-on. how could i look— companies? let me take that head-on. how could i look someone _ companies? let me take that head-on. how could i look someone in _ companies? let me take that head-on. how could i look someone in the - companies? let me take that head-on. how could i look someone in the eye i how could i look someone in the eye who is waiting for an operation and say that spare bed over their in the hospital that can treat you is available but because of my left—wing principles i'm not willing to fund you to go and access that bed free at the point of use through the nhs. i want to see people treated as fast as possible. if there is spare capacity in the private sector we will use it. the last labour government did that and do you know what we made the nhs so good at the same time that use of the private sector fell off a cliff under the last labour government. i want to make the nhs so good that people never feel they have to pay to go private. people never feel they have to pay to go private-— people never feel they have to pay to no rivate. ., ., ., ., to go private. hang on a minute, are you sending — to go private. hang on a minute, are you sending a _ to go private. hang on a minute, are you sending a mixed _ to go private. hang on a minute, are you sending a mixed message? - to go private. hang on a minute, are you sending a mixed message? you| to go private. hang on a minute, are i you sending a mixed message? you are saying rishi sunak doesn't it but at the same time you'd want to use the private sector more for people to change the way the service works. i people to change the way the service works. ., ., , ,., , , works. i would absolutely use the rivate works. i would absolutely use the private sector in _ works. i would absolutely use the private sector in the _ works. i would absolutely use the

private sector in the short - works. i would absolutely use the private sector in the short term . works. i would absolutely use the| private sector in the short term to get nhs waiting lists down free at the point of use through the nhs. the last labour government did that successfully, at the same time as fixing the fundamentals. that's why we have a plan to deliver the biggest expansion of nhs staff training and history funded by abolishing the non—dom tax status, rishi sunak knows all about that too. he kanik that plan if he wants too. he kanik that plan if he wants to but is not fixing the fundamentals. and in addition we have to look at why our hospitals are overloaded. it's because primary care is broken, people are struggling to see a gp, no surprises there, we have lost 5000 in the last decade and in social care... there, we have lost 5000 in the last decade and in social care. . .- decade and in social care... if you 'ust no decade and in social care... if you just go running — decade and in social care... if you just go running to _ decade and in social care... if you just go running to the _ decade and in social care... if you just go running to the private i just go running to the private sector to fix the problems of the nhs, isn't that an acknowledgement actually that the nhs is failing, if actually that the nhs is failing, if a labour government returned to the private sector in a big way and gave millions to be corporate is? it is millions to be corporate is? it is absolutely _ millions to be corporate is? it 3 absolutely an acknowledgement the conservatives have run down the nhs, it's atrocious what has happened in the nhs. but it's atrocious what has happened in the nhs. �* ., , ., ., it's atrocious what has happened in the nhs. ~ . ,., ., the nhs. but that is about what you would do in — the nhs. but that is about what you would do in office, _ the nhs. but that is about what you would do in office, not _ the nhs. but that is about what you would do in office, not what - the nhs. but that is about what you would do in office, not what the i would do in office, not what the conservative did. we would do in office, not what the conservative did.— would do in office, not what the conservative did. we are focused on fixin: the conservative did. we are focused on fixing the nhs. _ conservative did. we are focused on fixing the nhs, getting _ conservative did. we are focused on fixing the nhs, getting people i fixing the nhs, getting people access to treatment as fast as

possible, and we are having to think radically about how we do that. well, on one of those plans you are suggesting today that gps, many of them should become salaried members of staff under the nhs. now of course at the moment gps have their own practices and run them like small businesses. would you buy out gp practices around the country, sounds pretty expensive, how much would it cost? we sounds pretty expensive, how much would it cost?— would it cost? we will consult on hasin: would it cost? we will consult on phasing out _ would it cost? we will consult on phasing out over— would it cost? we will consult on phasing out over time. _ would it cost? we will consult on phasing out over time. that's i would it cost? we will consult on| phasing out over time. that's the trend by the way, people coming into general practice now are less likely to become gp partners in the way they have done previously. in fact by 2026 salaried gps are likely to be the majority, so the trend is already in that direction. but i'm looking at this as part of a much wider reform of primary care. i think i said in your programme last i was here, when you compare the nhs to other health care systems, one of the things i think makes us less effective is that we do late diagnosis, more expensive, less effective treatment, huge funding

concentrated on hospitals. we need to scale up primary care, community service, neighbourhood nhs. that's exactly the direction we need to go. when you say phasing out gp practices over time, though, do you actually mean categorically that you would get rid of over a period of time the concept of the gp practice being run by the doctors, doctors in charge, that they will become employees of the nhs? is that what you would look to as an ambition? the gp partnership model which has existed since the nhs was created, whereas you say gps run themselves a small businesses effectively we are looking to phase it out, and we will consult on that this year. but we have got also scale up the number of gps. general practice has such a critical role to play, it should be the best front door to the nhs, but at the moment it is broken, overwhelmed, we have lost 5000 gps in the last decade and it is having a big impact on patients, not the fault of gps, the fault of the government. it fault of gps, the fault of the government.— fault of gps, the fault of the government. fault of gps, the fault of the covernment. , ., , . ., ., government. it is a big change to completely _ government. it is a big change to completely change _ government. it is a big change to completely change that - government. it is a big change to

completely change that model, l government. it is a big change to | completely change that model, as you said yourself it has been there since the beginning of the nhs. you seem to have a bit of a beef with gps. you have suggested that they get money for old rope for doing vaccinations. i get money for old rope for doing vaccinations.— get money for old rope for doing vaccinations. ., ., , vaccinations. i have a beef with the fact that people — vaccinations. i have a beef with the fact that people are _ vaccinations. i have a beef with the fact that people are waiting - vaccinations. i have a beef with the fact that people are waiting so i vaccinations. i have a beef with the j fact that people are waiting so long to see a gp, i have a beef with the fact that gps are telling me they are slogging their guts out, working late into the night, that is not a sustainable position either. but you said money for— sustainable position either. but you said money for old _ sustainable position either. but you said money for old rope _ sustainable position either. but you said money for old rope for - sustainable position either. but you said money for old rope for them i sustainable position either. but you said money for old rope for them to do vaccinations. what i was saying in vaccinations, let me clarify that. i in vaccinations, let me clarify that. ~ , ., , in vaccinations, let me clarify that. ., , , ., ., ., that. i think pharmacies should do a lot more vaccination. _ that. i think pharmacies should do a lot more vaccination. of _ that. i think pharmacies should do a lot more vaccination. of course, i lot more vaccination. of course, there are gps who say, hang on a minute, that is a big part of our income, we don't want to see other people doing vaccinations either. money for old rope, is that a way to talk to a profession, saying that giving vaccinations to their patients, which may be life—saving, will certainly help them significantly, is that a way to talk to a profession, to say they are charging money for old rope for providing health care? the: vaccination programme

providing health care? t't;e: vaccination programme is providing health care? tt9 vaccination programme is absolutely critical to our country. gps, pharmacies, and of course the huge jabs army of volunteers did a brilliantjob on the vaccine roll—out, something the government has taken credit for, but something that gps and pharmacies delivered. i'm not saying they are not slogging their guts out and burning out, quite the opposite, i want more gps, more focus on investment in primary care, and over the course of a ten year plan for change and reform i'm working on with keir starmer we want to shift the focus of health care out of the community and a faster access to diagnosis, better, more effective treatment and better value for the taxpayer. i’m effective treatment and better value for the taxpayer-_ for the taxpayer. i'm sure we'll talk about _ for the taxpayer. i'm sure we'll talk about lots _ for the taxpayer. i'm sure we'll talk about lots more _ for the taxpayer. i'm sure we'll talk about lots more in - for the taxpayer. i'm sure we'll talk about lots more in the i talk about lots more in the months to come. quick final question, should junior doctors get a pay rise of about 30% which is what they appear to be asking for? i can appear to be asking for? i can understand — appear to be asking for? i can understand the _ appear to be asking for? i can understand the financial i appear to be asking for? t can understand the financial challenges thatjunior doctors face and i have raised those myself before. 30%, i can't honestly say if

this is bbc news broadcasting in the uk and around the globe i'm mark lobel. our top stories. uk prime minister rishi sunak says he's willing to discuss the issue of pay with the nurses' union to settle strikes but didn't make a firm commitment to increase salaries. when it comes to pay we have always said we want to talk about things that are reasonable and affordable and responsible for the country. china lifts quarantine rules for people arriving from abroad, for the first time in three years. we are more targeted, efficient in our response.

at least one person is killed as russia bombs