good morning. a tax mess, a police fine, and controversy over publicjobs. it's a tricky morning for the tories. nothing's easy for the prime minister right now. questions still chasing his cabinet colleague nadhim zahawi... have anything you want to say? ..about whether he paid enough tax. are you avoiding answering. questions about your taxes? and new claims this morning that this man, the bbc chairman, helped fix a deal for borisjohnson, who then gave him the job. there are demands in the tory party that the government should give us some hard—earned cash back, yet the prime minister seems to suggest it would be daft to think about tax cuts yet. you're not idiots, you know what's happened. but he made his own mistake, forgetting to buckle up in the back, breaking the law and being fined. expectations for the economy might

have improved touch. but making ends meet still the biggest for families and firms. i can't give them the things you would like to give them, like the new books. i can't afford to do it any more. with a new promise from labour to help keep a lid on bills, we have one big question this morning — is rishi sunak keeping his promise to run a professional government for us all? to answer that, james cleverly, the foreign secretary. the woman who'd be your chancellor if labour win the next election — rachel reeves is here. and the latest of our leaders' interviews for 2023 — we'll hearfrom nicola sturgeon, scotland's first minister. with me at the desk to help make sense of what that lot of have to say, the chair of tesco and imperial college, john allan, the lbc presenter and journalist, racheljohnson, and iain duncan smith — tory mp who used to lead his party.

good morning, thanks for being with us. it's not been a great week for the government, with a feeling that rishi sunak can't quite catch a break. let's look at the front pages. you can see the broadsheets, a photograph of cabinet minister nadhim zahawi on the front, who is in a bit of a pickle over his tax affairs. that story also on the front page of the sunday telegraph and at the bottom of the sunday times, an interesting story about bbc chairman richard sharp, the paper claiming he was involved in setting up a finance deal for boris johnson during the process when he was applying for thejob, johnson during the process when he was applying for the job, which is appointed by the government. we will

talk about that later. the front pages of the tabloids, going for the royals. different stories, though. the mirror talking about prince harry�*s account of what happened when he was a pilot. the sunday express giving us news of how the correlation might be. the son talking about prince andrew, and the sunday mail also talking about prince andrew's ongoing legal travails. lots of news going around. iain duncan smith, nadhim zahawi made a statement about his tax affairs yesterday but wouldn't it be easier to publish a thing that happened and come clean? i’m easier to publish a thing that happened and come clean? i'm always of a view with — happened and come clean? i'm always of a view with these _ happened and come clean? i'm always of a view with these things _ happened and come clean? i'm always of a view with these things that - happened and come clean? i'm always of a view with these things that as - of a view with these things that as soon as you get the absolute facts out the better, rather than it coming out in phases. i do know nadhim zahawi very well for stop he is in a way a peculiar british success story, as a person coming into the country, fleeing iraq, he has been successful in setting up a global brand and its remarkable,

saying a lot about uk, diversity and everything else. i am very fond of him, but i would say to him, get it all out now, whatever you have to do, and clear it up. i genuinely don't believe this is a man who is deceitful in any way shape or form, but this goes on and on and i would just clear it up. but this goes on and on and i would just clear it urn-— just clear it up. racheljohnson, what does _ just clear it up. racheljohnson, what does the _ just clear it up. racheljohnson, what does the public _ just clear it up. racheljohnson, what does the public think - just clear it up. racheljohnson, what does the public think of. just clear it up. racheljohnson, i what does the public think of this? he has done very well and set up a successful business, but he says he has carelessly had a mix—up with the taxman. and this is millions of pounds, notjust loose change. it he pounds, not 'ust loose change. if he has aid pounds, notjust loose change. if he has paid whatever _ pounds, notjust loose change. if he has paid whatever it _ pounds, notjust loose change. if he has paid whatever it is, and i know he says _ has paid whatever it is, and i know he says he — has paid whatever it is, and i know he says he doesn't recognise the figure. _ he says he doesn't recognise the figure, something in the region of £5 million. — figure, something in the region of £5 million, it is quite a lot as a penalty— £5 million, it is quite a lot as a penalty for— £5 million, it is quite a lot as a penalty for what the hmrc is calling carelessness, which as i understand it is a _ carelessness, which as i understand it is a term — carelessness, which as i understand it is a term within the tax code, simiiar— it is a term within the tax code, similar to — it is a term within the tax code, similar to negligence in the legal code, _ similar to negligence in the legal code, so— similar to negligence in the legal code, so it — similar to negligence in the legal code, so it actually means you haven't — code, so it actually means you haven't taken enough care over may be several _ haven't taken enough care over may be several years. to get your

affairs — be several years. to get your affairs in _ be several years. to get your affairs in order. as far as commentary on what nadhim zahawi did, i_ commentary on what nadhim zahawi did, i find _ commentary on what nadhim zahawi did, ifind my commentary on what nadhim zahawi did, i find my own tax affairs so complicated i couldn't possibly comment on whether he has broken the law or— comment on whether he has broken the law or not _ comment on whether he has broken the law or not do— comment on whether he has broken the law or not. ,, ,, comment on whether he has broken the lawornot. ,, , , . law or not. do you think the public care about — law or not. do you think the public care about things _ law or not. do you think the public care about things like _ law or not. do you think the public care about things like this? - law or not. do you think the public care about things like this? yes, l law or not. do you think the public care about things like this? yes, i | care about things like this? yes, i do, care about things like this? yes, i do. because _ care about things like this? yes, i do, because this _ care about things like this? yes, i do, because this is _ care about things like this? yes, i do, because this is absolutely - care about things like this? yes, i l do, because this is absolutely going to he _ do, because this is absolutely going to be trending. whenever any government minister goes out on the stump— government minister goes out on the stump they— government minister goes out on the stump they will be asked about this, especially— stump they will be asked about this, especially when the tax rate is at a 70 year— especially when the tax rate is at a 70 year high. especially when the tax rate is at a 70 year high-— 70 year high. something a lot of conservative _ 70 year high. something a lot of conservative voters _ 70 year high. something a lot of conservative voters don't - 70 year high. something a lot of conservative voters don't like i 70 year high. something a lot of i conservative voters don't like very much. john allan, there has been a bit of a feeling that the economy might not be as bad as we thought in the news this week. that's not what you hearfrom the news this week. that's not what you hear from your millions of customers. you hear from your millions of customers-— you hear from your millions of customers. ., ., , ~ ., , customers. not really. i think many --eole customers. not really. i think many peeple are — customers. not really. i think many peeple are ceping — customers. not really. i think many people are coping well— customers. not really. i think many people are coping well with - customers. not really. i think many people are coping well with the - customers. not really. i think many| people are coping well with the cost of living _ people are coping well with the cost of living crisis — people are coping well with the cost of living crisis because _ people are coping well with the cost of living crisis because they- people are coping well with the cost of living crisis because they have . of living crisis because they have income _ of living crisis because they have income to— of living crisis because they have income to do— of living crisis because they have income to do so, _ of living crisis because they have income to do so, but— of living crisis because they have income to do so, but there - of living crisis because they have income to do so, but there are l of living crisis because they have - income to do so, but there are many millions— income to do so, but there are many millions in— income to do so, but there are many millions in this _ income to do so, but there are many millions in this country _ income to do so, but there are many millions in this country who - income to do so, but there are many millions in this country who are - millions in this country who are suffering, — millions in this country who are suffering, struggling _ millions in this country who are suffering, struggling to - millions in this country who are suffering, struggling to be - millions in this country who are suffering, struggling to be able millions in this country who are . suffering, struggling to be able to afford _ suffering, struggling to be able to afford food — suffering, struggling to be able to afford food and _ suffering, struggling to be able to afford food and thus _ suffering, struggling to be able to afford food and thus the - suffering, struggling to be able to afford food and thus the growth . suffering, struggling to be able to| afford food and thus the growth of food banks— afford food and thus the growth of food banks and _ afford food and thus the growth of food banks and so _ afford food and thus the growth of food banks and so on. _ afford food and thus the growth of food banks and so on. the - afford food and thus the growth of food banks and so on. the hope . afford food and thus the growth of food banks and so on. the hope is that inflation— food banks and so on. the hope is that inflation will— food banks and so on. the hope is that inflation will start _ food banks and so on. the hope is that inflation will start to - food banks and so on. the hope is that inflation will start to abate i that inflation will start to abate perhaps — that inflation will start to abate perhaps later _

that inflation will start to abate perhaps later in _ that inflation will start to abate perhaps later in the _ that inflation will start to abate perhaps later in the year - that inflation will start to abate perhaps later in the year but i that inflation will start to abate i perhaps later in the year but going down _ perhaps later in the year but going down from — perhaps later in the year but going down from 11%_ perhaps later in the year but going down from 11% to _ perhaps later in the year but going down from 11% to 10.5% _ perhaps later in the year but going down from 11% to 10.5% or- perhaps later in the year but going i down from 11% to 10.5% or whatever it is doesn't— down from 11% to 10.5% or whatever it is doesn't make _ down from 11% to 10.5% or whatever it is doesn't make a _ down from 11% to 10.5% or whatever it is doesn't make a difference i down from 11% to 10.5% or whatever it is doesn't make a difference to. it is doesn't make a difference to anyone — it is doesn't make a difference to an one. ., . , ,, it is doesn't make a difference to an one. ., .,, ,, , ., ~ anyone. not a big thumbs up. thank ou to the anyone. not a big thumbs up. thank you to the three _ anyone. not a big thumbs up. thank you to the three of— anyone. not a big thumbs up. thank you to the three of you. _ anyone. not a big thumbs up. thank you to the three of you. plenty i anyone. not a big thumbs up. thank you to the three of you. plenty of i you to the three of you. plenty of hard work for you ahead so don't go anywhere. there's no question the tax affairs of the government minister nadhim zahawi are a headache for the government. but yesterday, after lots of queries over a long period of time about his taxes, he released a statement, with the implication that he had indeed paid a penalty to settle with the taxman after making arrangements about his tax involving his old firm, yougov, and shares he gave to his father and that he sorted it out while he was chancellor. we'll try and find out what's been going on in a second. but let's first ask the foreign secretary james cleverly about a different story this morning. great to have you with us. we've heard this morning about some of your old friend and boss borisjohnson's dealings with the man his government appointed to be chair

of the bbc, richard sharp. the sunday times reports that that mr sharp fixed a meeting between a wealthy businessman who ended up providing essentially an overdraft of hundreds of thousands of pounds to the prime minister and a senior civil servant while he was applying for his job and didn't declare it. should that have been declared? either he has seen the details you have seen in the papers overnight. —— | have seen in the papers overnight. —— i haven't seen. i haven't had a chance to discuss this with any of the people involved. i have met richard, i spoke with him in relation to the bbc world service, which is of course an incredibly important voice internationally and one that the foreign and commonwealth and development office has a direct interest. i know he's an incredibly accomplished, incredibly successful individual who brings a wealth of experience with him. that's why he was appointed to

the chairmanship of the bbc. but i've not had a chance to discuss any of the issues brought up today but i have absolutely no doubt he was appointed on merit. the point that i would just remind people of is that it's not unusual, and indeed there is nothing wrong, for someone to be politically active prior to their appointment to senior bbc positions. that's something that has happened pretty regularly in the past. but that's something that has happened pretty regularly in the past.- pretty regularly in the past. but on --rincile pretty regularly in the past. but on principle should _ pretty regularly in the past. but on principle should he _ pretty regularly in the past. but on principle should he have _ pretty regularly in the past. but on principle should he have declared i principle should he have declared that connection info? and what would you say to viewers hearing about this this morning who think again, this this morning who think again, this looks like borisjohnson doing favours for his friends. are you worried it gives that impression? i know there may be the perception of that going on, but richard has been incredibly accomplished individual. had he not had a very successful career, giving him a wealth of experience before putting himself

forward for bbc chairman, he wouldn't even have had a look in. this is someone who i know has brought a lot of experience to the role. the conversation i had with him about the bbc world service, made it very clear that he has been very thoughtful. made it very clear that he has been very thoughtful-— very thoughtful. that's not the question- _ very thoughtful. that's not the question. the _ very thoughtful. that's not the question. the question - very thoughtful. that's not the question. the question is i very thoughtful. that's not the i question. the question is whether us the foreign secretary think that it would always be better to make things like political links completely clean and out in the open. you said there that perception matters. would it therefore have been better for this all to matters. would it therefore have been betterfor this all to be matters. would it therefore have been better for this all to be out and completely transparent? riff and completely transparent? of course perception matters. of course it does. and it's not, i'm sure, anything richard would want, having this conversation this morning being about what did or didn't happen in the past with regard the former prime minister. ijudge him on the fact that i know for certain, what

know is that he's had an incredibly successful career, he has got huge experience delivering at the top of large organisations and in the conversations i've had with him about the bbc world service he has been clearly very thoughtful, listened to the points i made, made his point about the bbc very firmly dotted that you his point about the bbc very firmly dotted than , p, . . his point about the bbc very firmly dotted than , ., . ., ., his point about the bbc very firmly dotted tha , ., ., ., ., ,., dotted that you have made that point and we should _ dotted that you have made that point and we should tell _ dotted that you have made that point and we should tell our _ dotted that you have made that point and we should tell our viewers i dotted that you have made that point and we should tell our viewers this i and we should tell our viewers this morning, we asked richard sharp if he would come to speak to us and he declined that opportunity but he has said the claim there is anything financial involved in this is not true. wejust financial involved in this is not true. we just heard financial involved in this is not true. wejust heard iain duncan smith say that it would be better for your colleague nadhim zahawi got everything out in the open. in a spirit of that, can you confirm to viewers this morning that he has paid a penalty to the taxman? i don't know any more detail than the detail he has put out in his

statement. in the uk system, people prospect tax affairs are personal and private. i recognise as politicians there is quite an enhanced duty for openness. i think iain duncan smith makes a very firm point, that sometimes, typically it's best to say everything you are going to say up front, but i do think the point we should remember is that the tax requirement that fell on nadhim zahawi was as a direct result of him being a very successful entrepreneur who built a business from nothing, he went on to employ hundreds, possibly thousands of people. he pay tax, the business pay tax, the individuals he employed pay tax, the individuals he employed pay tax, the individuals he employed pay tax, so he has been a real director contributed to the british economy. but of course you will realise that having conversations like this are far from what he and people would want but in terms of

the detail i don't know any more than the statement. fiur the detail i don't know any more than the statement. our viewers don't -a than the statement. our viewers don't pay tax _ than the statement. our viewers don't pay tax on _ than the statement. our viewers don't pay tax on dependent i than the statement. our viewers don't pay tax on dependent on i don't pay tax on dependent on whether they are successful, is dependent on what they earn. you say you don't know whether he paid the penalty. did you sort out this dispute while he was chancellor and therefore the boss of the taxman? laura, as i said, i don't know any more detail about this than what was in his statement. as i say, this was something which has been described as careless rather than intentional, and the tax requirement that he was due to pay has now been fully paid. we should again point out to our viewers, the word careless in this context doesn't mean, oh dear, i lost my tax return down the back of the sofa. it's a technical term used by the taxman to indicate something went wrong. you say you haven't asked for any more detail and you don't know any, but did the prime minister know about this before he

game nadhim zahawi a job in his government? game nadhim zahawi a “0b in his governmentafi game nadhim zahawi a “0b in his government? game nadhim zahawi a “0b in his covernment? . . ., ., , ., government? nadhim zahawi was a senior member _ government? nadhim zahawi was a senior member of _ government? nadhim zahawi was a senior member of cabinet. - government? nadhim zahawi was a senior member of cabinet. when i government? nadhim zahawi was a l senior member of cabinet. when you join cabinet, the cabinet office ensures that you go through a process, a due diligence process. that's the right and proper role of the cabinet office and nadhim zahawi said he had conversations with the cabinet office about his tax affairs. of course, that's theirjob and function on behalf of the prime minister. did and function on behalf of the prime minister. , ~ , minister. did the prime minister know? i minister. did the prime minister know? l don't— minister. did the prime minister know? i don't know _ minister. did the prime minister know? i don't know what - know? i don't know what conversations _ know? i don't know what conversations the - know? i don't know what conversations the prime | know? i don't know what - conversations the prime minister know? i don't know what _ conversations the prime minister had on the appointment of any other minister. all i know are the conversations i had with the prime minister when he appointed me and i'm sure that's reflective of the conversations he had with others and in those conversations you talk about the priorities for the government and country and what we need to do in ourjobs as minister rather than any external affairs.

those were the conversations when i have been appointed minister that i've had and i suspect it's the same for other ministers of government. this issue has been going on a long time and it has been a huge matter of political discussion in the last few days. you knew you were coming on to do this interview this morning and you told us you don't know whether or not he paid a penalty, you don't know whether or not he sorted out his tax affairs while he was chancellor and the tax man's boss, which many people would think is a blatant conflict of interest. and you don't know whether he discussed it with the prime minister. can i ask you, is that because you don't want to know because you don't want to know because it's uncomfortable to talk about this, or if it's because nadhim zahawi is keeping this to himself? because our viewers might wonder, how are you talking about this for the government this morning when you don't know the answers to straightforward questions. i when you don't know the answers to straightforward questions.— straightforward questions. i spent the whole of _ straightforward questions. i spent the whole of last _ straightforward questions. i spent the whole of last week _ straightforward questions. i spent the whole of last week in - straightforward questions. i spent the whole of last week in the i straightforward questions. i spent i the whole of last week in the united states of america and in canada having on mondayjust made a

statement about the execution of a british dual national by the brutal iranian regime. i arrived back in the uk early on friday morning on an overnight flight before then going on to engage with my constituents through friday and having a bit of a rest and doing some shopping on saturday. so my week has been focused on the uk support for the people of ukraine, the uk support for british nationals overseas and trying to ensure that i deliver on my function, which is to be the face and voice of the uk overseas. foreign secretary is a busyjob and those are reasonable points you raise, apart from may doing your shopping, and i'm sure yourfamily are glad you squeezed that in, but this has been a serious matter of political conversation and debate in the last few days. don't you think the last few days. don't you think the public has a right to these

answers? it's about a senior minister in the government getting in a mess over millions of pounds to the taxman. it's not a random and obscure issue. i the taxman. it's not a random and obscure issue.— the taxman. it's not a random and obscure issue. i recognised we have an enhanced — obscure issue. i recognised we have an enhanced duty _ obscure issue. i recognised we have an enhanced duty of _ obscure issue. i recognised we have an enhanced duty of transparency i an enhanced duty of transparency when we are in elected office, and that right and proper. so when we are in elected office, and that right and proper.— that right and proper. so why doesnt that right and proper. so why doesn't he — that right and proper. so why doesn't he publish _ that right and proper. so why doesn't he publish his - that right and proper. so why doesn't he publish his tax i that right and proper. so why i doesn't he publish his tax return and get it all out there? wouldn't it be better and then people can see, as iain duncan smith has suggested, then everyone can look, sunlight is the best disinfectant, they say, because at the moment this doesn't stack up with rishi sunak�*s promise to run a government with the highest levels of integrity, professionalism and accountability, and he said transparency is vital to healthy democracy. here we have only part of the story so why not get it all out there? website the decision as to how much detail to put in the public domain is rightly one for it nadhim zahawi

himself. the point he has made is that he is up to date with his tax affairs upon appointment to positions in government. he had conversations with the cabinet office to make sure that we give that due diligence, or we give that reassurance to the government as a whole, that our personal affairs are right and proper, and if there was something outstanding at any point that those things are in the process of being resolved. the choices to how much detail to put into the public domain. that is ultimately for nazim —— nadhim zahawi. personally, in terms of what i know about this, i don't know any more than the statement he has made. fiifi than the statement he has made. 0k, our viewers — than the statement he has made. 0k, our viewers will _ than the statement he has made. ok, our viewers will make their own judgment about how much of the stories out there. thank you. i want to ask you about an important issue you are grappling with. lots of viewers will know that this week there was a lot of discussion among western allies about sending more tanks to ukraine. now, germany did not agree. either to send their own

tanks, orto not agree. either to send their own tanks, or to allow german tanks to be sent to ukraine by other allies. are you disappointed by that? surely it drags out the length of this terrible conflict?— terrible conflict? well, over christmas _ terrible conflict? well, over christmas and _ terrible conflict? well, over christmas and the new- terrible conflict? well, over. christmas and the new year, i terrible conflict? well, over- christmas and the new year, i had conversations with the defence secretary, with the prime minister and other senior members of government, about our posture with regards to ukraine. the prime minister decided, quite rightly, that the most humane thing to do is to bring this war to a swift conclusion for the ukrainians to be successful in the defence of their homeland. that is why we made the commitment to significantly increase our military support to ukraine, to help them defend themselves, including with challenger two tanks. i would like nothing more than to see the ukrainians equipped with those most up—to—date armoured vehicles, both tanks and artillery, and others. the leopard is an

incredibly effective piece of military equipment. i would like nothing more than to save ukrainians with them. pare nothing more than to save ukrainians with them. �* , ., nothing more than to save ukrainians with them. . , ., , ., with them. are you frustrated germany has _ with them. are you frustrated germany has not _ with them. are you frustrated germany has not done - with them. are you frustrated germany has not done that? l with them. are you frustrated i germany has not done that? you with them. are you frustrated - germany has not done that? you said if he humane thing was to help as much as possible to bring this to a close, and the suggestion from that is that it is the inhumane, actually, to hold back that military support. are you frustrated, disappointed, that germany still has the brakes on, sending those tanks? well, germany has been a huge contributor, and i don't think we should ignore that, both in terms of its hosting of refugees, in terms of its hosting of refugees, in terms of its provision of military equipment, economic aid, and also in terms of its application of sanctions. ultimately, it is for every sovereign government to decide how they are best able to support the ukrainians as a member of nato. the ramstein process is about coordinating our respective support. the ukrainians said they need more tanks. they need western calibre

nato standard tanks. we've provided some challengers. the countries across nato have provided a range of armoured vehicles. some of that includes light tanks, some of it includes light tanks, some of it includes significant artillery. we will continue working with friends and allies across nato to make sure the support we give to the ukrainian armed forces the ukrainian people are the most effective at helping them to defend themselves against this brutal regime.— this brutal regime. foreign secretary. _ this brutal regime. foreign secretary, reading - this brutal regime. foreign| secretary, reading between this brutal regime. foreign i secretary, reading between the lines, it sounds like you are frustrated with the germans but are perhaps too polite to say so. can we close with a yes or no question, if i may. would it be easier in this country of all ministers published their tax returns so there was never any items like this, yes or no? it is right and proper that people pass my tax affairs are personal and private. my tax affairs are personal and rivate. . �* , p, my tax affairs are personal and rivate. . �* , ., .,

my tax affairs are personal and rivate. . �*, ., ., , �*, private. that's a no. -- people's tax affairs _ private. that's a no. -- people's tax affairs. we _ private. that's a no. -- people's tax affairs. we keep _ private. that's a no. -- people's| tax affairs. we keep hearing that private. that's a no. -- people's i tax affairs. we keep hearing that we want politicians _ tax affairs. we keep hearing that we want politicians to _ tax affairs. we keep hearing that we want politicians to be _ tax affairs. we keep hearing that we want politicians to be more - tax affairs. we keep hearing that we want politicians to be more likely i want politicians to be more likely rest of us and less to be a kind of strange and unique beast. so i think the rules we apply to others are legitimated to apply to politicians. and that is why, as i say, we don't demanded of others. if politicians choose to do so, that is great. but i think having a unique requirement thatis i think having a unique requirement that is different to the rest of society, i don't think that is necessarily the best way forward. foreign secretary, thank you for joining us and giving us your time. thank you. iain duncan smith, what did you make of that?— did you make of that? well, it is difficult to _ did you make of that? well, it is difficult to come _ did you make of that? well, it is difficult to come on _ did you make of that? well, it is difficult to come on a _ did you make of that? well, it is| difficult to come on a programme like this, i have done it myself, it's very difficult. the main point of low to take away from this is that it of low to take away from this is thatitis of low to take away from this is that it is very important that the correctness of the story is there. from what i have read, this is a little more complex than sometimes

we make out. these were family shares, not his. he has not benefited —— benefited from any of this. these areas are complex when it is about what is relevant to the individual and how much they pay tax. there would have been ongoing conversations for some time. about what is old and not out. but conversations for some time. about what is old and not out.— what is old and not out. but it's ok he was having _ what is old and not out. but it's ok he was having these _ what is old and not out. but it's 0k| he was having these conversations, oras he was having these conversations, or as accountants were, while he was chancellor? john allan, you are a senior businessman, is that ok? if you are the tax man's boss, you're talking to the taxman about your own bill? , , ., �* ., , ., ., bill? yes, but i don't really have a view on that. _ bill? yes, but i don't really have a view on that, laura. _ bill? yes, but i don't really have a view on that, laura. what - bill? yes, but i don't really have a view on that, laura. what i i bill? yes, but i don't really have a view on that, laura. what i do i bill? yes, but i don't really have a. view on that, laura. what i do have a view— view on that, laura. what i do have a view on _ view on that, laura. what i do have a view on is — view on that, laura. what i do have a view on is that these sort of scandals _ a view on is that these sort of scandals and scanned the letters, they are _ scandals and scanned the letters, they are hugely distracting. i endorse _ they are hugely distracting. i endorse what iain duncan smith said earlier _ endorse what iain duncan smith said earlier the — endorse what iain duncan smith said earlier. the best way to deal with this is— earlier. the best way to deal with this is to — earlier. the best way to deal with this is to get it out in the open. frankly. — this is to get it out in the open. frankly, this will hold ministers for days— frankly, this will hold ministers for days and weeks until it is fully disclosed — for days and weeks until it is fully

disclosed. and it's distracting them and us _ disclosed. and it's distracting them and us from the massive issues that this country— and us from the massive issues that this country faces domestically. and internationally. he this country faces domestically. and internationally.— internationally. he could have cleared all— internationally. he could have cleared all of _ internationally. he could have cleared all of this _ internationally. he could have cleared all of this up - internationally. he could have cleared all of this up this i internationally. he could have i cleared all of this up this morning, racheljohnson, by coming with answers he said he didn't have? well, the bit that puzzles me about the whole _ well, the bit that puzzles me about the whole thing _ well, the bit that puzzles me about the whole thing is _ well, the bit that puzzles me about the whole thing is if— well, the bit that puzzles me about the whole thing is if you _ well, the bit that puzzles me about the whole thing is if you have i well, the bit that puzzles me about the whole thing is if you have builtl the whole thing is if you have built up, as— the whole thing is if you have built up. as lan — the whole thing is if you have built up. as lan has— the whole thing is if you have built up, as ian has said, _ the whole thing is if you have built up, as ian has said, successful- up, as ian has said, successful british— up, as ian has said, successful british company— up, as ian has said, successful british company from - up, as ian has said, successful. british company from scratch and then you — british company from scratch and then you sell— british company from scratch and then you sell it, _ british company from scratch and then you sell it, presumably- british company from scratch and then you sell it, presumably you i then you sell it, presumably you have _ then you sell it, presumably you have got — then you sell it, presumably you have got a white _ then you sell it, presumably you have got a white hot _ then you sell it, presumably you | have got a white hot accountant, especially — have got a white hot accountant, especially if _ have got a white hot accountant, especially if you _ have got a white hot accountant, especially if you are _ have got a white hot accountant, especially if you are in _ have got a white hot accountant, especially if you are in politics i have got a white hot accountant, especially if you are in politics or you are — especially if you are in politics or you are intended _ especially if you are in politics or you are intended to _ especially if you are in politics or you are intended to go _ especially if you are in politics or you are intended to go into- you are intended to go into politics. _ you are intended to go into politics, who _ you are intended to go into politics, who makes - you are intended to go into politics, who makes sure . you are intended to go into. politics, who makes sure that something _ politics, who makes sure that something like _ politics, who makes sure that something like this _ politics, who makes sure that something like this doesn't i politics, who makes sure that i something like this doesn't come politics, who makes sure that - something like this doesn't come and take up— something like this doesn't come and take up everybody's_ something like this doesn't come and take up everybody's time _ something like this doesn't come and take up everybody's time and - take up everybody's time and attention— take up everybody's time and attention and _ take up everybody's time and attention and distracts - take up everybody's time and attention and distracts the i take up everybody's time and i attention and distracts the entire agenda _ attention and distracts the entire agenda for— attention and distracts the entire agenda for days on _ attention and distracts the entire agenda for days on end. - attention and distracts the entire agenda for days on end. when. attention and distracts the entire. agenda for days on end. when the government— agenda for days on end. when the government is— agenda for days on end. when the government is trying _ agenda for days on end. when the government is trying to _ agenda for days on end. when the government is trying to get - agenda for days on end. when the government is trying to get on i agenda for days on end. when thel government is trying to get on with things _ government is trying to get on with things. especially, _ government is trying to get on with things. especially, as— government is trying to get on with things. especially, as you - government is trying to get on with things. especially, as you say, i government is trying to get on withl things. especially, as you say, when he was _ things. especially, as you say, when he was chancellor— things. especially, as you say, when he was chancellor and _ things. especially, as you say, when he was chancellor and the _ things. especially, as you say, when he was chancellor and the boss i things. especially, as you say, when he was chancellor and the boss of i he was chancellor and the boss of hmrc _ he was chancellor and the boss of hmrc. ~ ., he was chancellor and the boss of hmrc. . ., ., ,., , he was chancellor and the boss of hmrc. ~ ., , ., he was chancellor and the boss of hmrc. ., ., hmrc. what about this scandal about richard sharp. _ hmrc. what about this scandal about richard sharp, the _ hmrc. what about this scandal about richard sharp, the chair— hmrc. what about this scandal about

richard sharp, the chair of _ hmrc. what about this scandal about richard sharp, the chair of the - hmrc. what about this scandal about richard sharp, the chair of the bbc, i richard sharp, the chair of the bbc, and one bjohnson. richard sharp, appointed by the government appointed by the government appointed by the government appointed by borisjohnson's appointed by boris johnson's government, appointed by borisjohnson's government, the claim in the sunday times this morning is that he set up a meeting between a wealthy businessman, a senior civil servant, and the claim is that that was to discuss financial support and backing for the former prime minister. do you fear that if it's just again creates more mess around your brother's time in number 10? ah, laura, you ask about my distant cousin— ah, laura, you ask about my distant cousin and _ ah, laura, you ask about my distant cousin and my— ah, laura, you ask about my distant cousin and my brother. _ ah, laura, you ask about my distant cousin and my brother. i— ah, laura, you ask about my distant cousin and my brother. i mean, i ah, laura, you ask about my distantl cousin and my brother. i mean, look, i cousin and my brother. i mean, look, i am _ cousin and my brother. i mean, look, i am happy_ cousin and my brother. i mean, look, i am happy to— cousin and my brother. i mean, look, lam happy to tell— cousin and my brother. i mean, look, i am happy to tell you, _ cousin and my brother. i mean, look, i am happy to tell you, i— cousin and my brother. i mean, look, i am happy to tell you, i have - cousin and my brother. i mean, look, i am happy to tell you, i have no i iam happy to tell you, i have no prior— iam happy to tell you, i have no prior or— lam happy to tell you, i have no prior or privy _ lam happy to tell you, i have no prior or privy knowledge, - lam happy to tell you, i have no prior or privy knowledge, thank. prior or privy knowledge, thank goodness, _ prior or privy knowledge, thank goodness, my— prior or privy knowledge, thank goodness, my brother's - prior or privy knowledge, thank. goodness, my brother's financial affairs _ goodness, my brother's financial affairs i— goodness, my brother's financial affairs i had— goodness, my brother's financial affairs. i had no— goodness, my brother's financial affairs. i had no idea _ goodness, my brother's financial affairs. i had no idea about- goodness, my brother's financial affairs. i had no idea about this i affairs. i had no idea about this until— affairs. i had no idea about this until the — affairs. i had no idea about this until the sunday— affairs. i had no idea about this until the sunday times, - affairs. i had no idea about this until the sunday times, i- affairs. i had no idea about this| until the sunday times, i think, brokered — until the sunday times, i think, brokered last _ until the sunday times, i think, brokered last week— until the sunday times, i think, brokered last week that - until the sunday times, i think, brokered last week that there . until the sunday times, i think, . brokered last week that there had been _ brokered last week that there had been... ., , brokered last week that there had been---_ no. _

brokered last week that there had been. . ._ no, this i brokered last week that there had been. . ._ no, this was l brokered last week that there had been. . ._ no, this was a been... last night. no, this was a week a90- — been... last night. no, this was a week age the — been... last night. no, this was a week ago. the richard _ been... last night. no, this was a week ago. the richard sharp - week ago. the richard sharp involvement _ week ago. the richard sharp involvement is _ week ago. the richard sharp involvement is a _ week ago. the richard sharp involvement is a follow—up . week ago. the richard sharpl involvement is a follow—up to week ago. the richard sharp- involvement is a follow—up to last week. _ involvement is a follow—up to last week, which— involvement is a follow—up to last week, which is_ involvement is a follow—up to last week, which is the _ involvement is a follow—up to last week, which is the loan— involvement is a follow—up to last week, which is the loan providedl involvement is a follow—up to last l week, which is the loan provided by a distant _ week, which is the loan provided by a distant cousin. _ week, which is the loan provided by a distant cousin. all— week, which is the loan provided by a distant cousin. all the _ week, which is the loan provided by a distant cousin. all the parties- a distant cousin. all the parties involved — a distant cousin. all the parties involved have _ a distant cousin. all the parties involved have given— a distant cousin. all the parties| involved have given statements a distant cousin. all the parties. involved have given statements to the sunday— involved have given statements to the sunday times which _ involved have given statements to the sunday times which suggest l involved have given statements to i the sunday times which suggest they did everything — the sunday times which suggest they did everything above _ the sunday times which suggest they did everything above board _ the sunday times which suggest they did everything above board and - did everything above board and everything _ did everything above board and everything was _ did everything above board and everything was transparent. . did everything above board and everything was transparent. i l everything was transparent. i suggest — everything was transparent. i suggest you _ everything was transparent. i suggest you ask _ everything was transparent. i suggest you ask simon - everything was transparent. i suggest you ask simon case, l everything was transparent. i - suggest you ask simon case, who seems _ suggest you ask simon case, who seems to— suggest you ask simon case, who seems to he — suggest you ask simon case, who seems to be the _ suggest you ask simon case, who seems to be the linchpin- suggest you ask simon case, who seems to be the linchpin in- suggest you ask simon case, who seems to be the linchpin in both i suggest you ask simon case, whoi seems to be the linchpin in both of these _ seems to be the linchpin in both of these stories. _ seems to be the linchpin in both of these stories, to _ seems to be the linchpin in both of these stories, to come _ seems to be the linchpin in both of these stories, to come on - seems to be the linchpin in both of these stories, to come on and - seems to be the linchpin in both of these stories, to come on and say| these stories, to come on and say what _ these stories, to come on and say what happeneg _ these stories, to come on and say what happened. the _ these stories, to come on and say what happened. the cabinet - these stories, to come on and say- what happened. the cabinet secretary who was _ what happened. the cabinet secretary who was obviously— what happened. the cabinet secretary who was obviously the _ what happened. the cabinet secretary who was obviously the cabinet - who was obviously the cabinet secretary _ who was obviously the cabinet secretary during _ who was obviously the cabinet secretary during nadhim - who was obviously the cabinet. secretary during nadhim zahawi's time, _ secretary during nadhim zahawi's time, also — secretary during nadhim zahawi's time, also was _ secretary during nadhim zahawi's time, also was the _ secretary during nadhim zahawi's time, also was the one _ secretary during nadhim zahawi's time, also was the one that - secretary during nadhim zahawi's l time, also was the one that richard sharp— time, also was the one that richard sharp property— time, also was the one that richard sharp property said _ time, also was the one that richard sharp properly said should - time, also was the one that richard sharp properly said should be - sharp properly said should be involved — sharp properly said should be involved in— sharp properly said should be involved in any— sharp properly said should be involved in any introduction . sharp properly said should be - involved in any introduction between him andm _ involved in any introduction between him andm ihie— involved in any introduction between him and... ~ ., , ., him and... we would be delighted to have simon — him and... we would be delighted to have simon case, _ him and... we would be delighted to have simon case, or _ him and... we would be delighted to have simon case, or even _ him and... we would be delighted to have simon case, or even boris - have simon case, or even boris johnson, in the studio any sunday morning the fancy coming along. even during the week we will be happy to film an interview with the man played for all of you. do you think this matters? again, it is a thing with the conservative party, whatever the specific rights and wrongs of these individual stories, and there are technical and legal

difficulties involved, and people have denied there was anything wrong, but again, people are hearing about what sounds like things that are fairly sniff test for the conservative party, and wasn't rishi sunak�*s government meant to draw line under that? it is sunak's government meant to draw line under that?— line under that? it is difficult for the prime minister _ line under that? it is difficult for the prime minister because - line under that? it is difficult for the prime minister because this| the prime minister because this distracts from what he is trying to do, no question. stories like this are not helpful because they gain a significance i don't really have in real government. so you want these things to go away. the quicker you can get them to go away, the better. the borisjohnson loan, i know nothing about. i suspect rishi sunak knows nothing at all about it either. that is damaging because it was the prime minister. the government one will have to be dealt with in another way. but my sense is that as soon as we can get beyond this, there are so many huge issues, we touched on ukraine, we got the issue with inflation, the cost of living, that these are the big

issues that the public really, really care about, because they affect them. these other stories are just indicative of, if you're not careful, a loss of control. getting them under control is important. i them under control is important. i want to show viewers a story in the mail on sunday, which talks about greedflation. it basically accuses some of the big food companies of profiteering. we know that businesses have been under pressure because of inflation. one of the examples it gives is that a humble tin of soup has gone up from 98p to £170 p. who better to ask then the head of a big supermarket chain that millions of issues every week? do you think some of the big producers and big companies have been taking the make? ~ �* ., , ., the make? well, i'm not sure i would use those terms, _ the make? well, i'm not sure i would use those terms, but _ the make? well, i'm not sure i would use those terms, but i _ the make? well, i'm not sure i would use those terms, but i know - the make? well, i'm not sure i would use those terms, but i know there . use those terms, but i know there have _ use those terms, but i know there have been— use those terms, but i know there have been robust discussions between tesco— have been robust discussions between tesco and _ have been robust discussions between tesco and a _ have been robust discussions between tesco and a number of suppliers. we didn't— tesco and a number of suppliers. we didn't have _ tesco and a number of suppliers. we didn't have heinz soup and hides tomato _ didn't have heinz soup and hides tomato ketchup for a spell last summer— tomato ketchup for a spell last summer when they tried to put through— summer when they tried to put through a — summer when they tried to put through a large price increase. that

was eventually settled. we have fallen _ was eventually settled. we have fallen out with other suppliers. so we do _ fallen out with other suppliers. so we do try— fallen out with other suppliers. so we do try very hard, i think, to challenge _ we do try very hard, i think, to challenge. and we have a team that can look— challenge. and we have a team that can look at— challenge. and we have a team that can look at the composition of food, costs. _ can look at the composition of food, costs, commodities, and whether these _ costs, commodities, and whether these cost — costs, commodities, and whether these cost increases are legitimate. ithink— these cost increases are legitimate. i think most of them are, because there _ i think most of them are, because there have — i think most of them are, because there have been some dramatic increases — there have been some dramatic increases in commodity costs, energy costs and _ increases in commodity costs, energy costs and labour costs. on the other hand, _ costs and labour costs. on the other hand. if— costs and labour costs. on the other hand. if you — costs and labour costs. on the other hand, if you don't want to pay £1.70 for heinz— hand, if you don't want to pay £1.70 for heinz soup in tesco's or any other— for heinz soup in tesco's or any other supermarket, there are alternatives. so other supermarket, there are alternatives.— alternatives. so you are acknowledging - alternatives. so you are acknowledging then - alternatives. so you are| acknowledging then that alternatives. so you are - acknowledging then that actually some companies have been trying to take advantage of the rising inflation to jack up prices more than they need to? 1 inflation to jack up prices more than they need to?— inflation to jack up prices more than they need to? i think that is entirely possible. _ than they need to? i think that is entirely possible. very _ than they need to? i think that is i entirely possible. very interesting. do ou entirely possible. very interesting. do you think _ entirely possible. very interesting. do you think that _ entirely possible. very interesting. do you think that is _ entirely possible. very interesting. do you think that is something - entirely possible. very interesting. | do you think that is something that is still going on? are you worried about it? it is still going on? are you worried about it? , ,., ., is still going on? are you worried about it? , ., , , about it? it is something our buying teamst about it? it is something our buying teams try to — about it? it is something our buying teams try to deal _ about it? it is something our buying teams try to deal with _ about it? it is something our buying teams try to deal with every - about it? it is something our buying teams try to deal with every day - about it? it is something our buying teams try to deal with every day ofl teams try to deal with every day of the week — teams try to deal with every day of the week. sometimes we succeed in

turning _ the week. sometimes we succeed in turning these links back, sometimes we don't _ turning these links back, sometimes we don't. until you can get into the cost structures of the people concerned, it is very difficult to be definitive. the extent to which food prices have risen is uncomfortable, and certainly the major _ uncomfortable, and certainly the major supermarket chains are trying very hard _ major supermarket chains are trying very hard to — major supermarket chains are trying very hard to mitigate those increases, not least by offering people — increases, not least by offering people alternatives. there is no doubt _ people alternatives. there is no doubt that people are trading down from brands to own brand, and even the lowest _ from brands to own brand, and even the lowest tier prices. at from brands to own brand, and even the lowest tier prices.— the lowest tier prices. at this moment. _ the lowest tier prices. at this moment. in _ the lowest tier prices. at this moment, in a _ the lowest tier prices. at this moment, in a cost _ the lowest tier prices. at this moment, in a cost of- the lowest tier prices. at this moment, in a cost of living i the lowest tier prices. at this - moment, in a cost of living crisis, you say some big companies have been taking advantage of the poorest people in the country? timer;r taking advantage of the poorest people in the country? they may well have. i people in the country? they may well have- i can't — people in the country? they may well have- i can't be _ people in the country? they may well have. i can't be definitive _ people in the country? they may well have. i can't be definitive because - have. i can't be definitive because i have. i can't be definitive because i could _ have. i can't be definitive because tcoutd have — have. i can't be definitive because i could have not seen their cost structures _ i could have not seen their cost structures— structures. but you definitely consider this _ structures. but you definitely consider this is _ structures. but you definitely consider this is an _ structures. but you definitely consider this is an issue - structures. but you definitely consider this is an issue as i structures. but you definitely consider this is an issue as a | consider this is an issue as a business?— consider this is an issue as a business?- i _ consider this is an issue as a business?- i want - consider this is an issue as a business?- i want to - consider this is an issue as a business? yes. i want to ask you about something _ business? yes. i want to ask you about something completely different, the coronation. there are some glorious pictures about what the coronation might look like in the coronation might look like in the papers. people have seen so much of the archive, the late queen's

coronation in the past few months. speculation too about what might look like, who might play, will it be bryan may on top of buckingham palace again? or would you like to i'm an old rocker, so i'm happy to see any of the old rock bands come through. see any of the old rock bands come throu . h. , see any of the old rock bands come throu~h. , . .. ., . through. there is a new fact for a sunday morning! _ through. there is a new fact for a sunday morning! what _ through. there is a new fact for a sunday morning! what about - through. there is a new fact for a | sunday morning! what about pink flo d? 50 sunday morning! what about pink floyd? 50 years — sunday morning! what about pink floyd? 50 years ago, _ sunday morning! what about pink floyd? 50 years ago, they - sunday morning! what about pink i floyd? 50 years ago, they recorded dark side _ floyd? 50 years ago, they recorded dark side of the moon. it floyd? 50 years ago, they recorded dark side of the moon.— dark side of the moon. it has never one out dark side of the moon. it has never gone out of — dark side of the moon. it has never gone out of the _ dark side of the moon. it has never gone out of the charts. _ dark side of the moon. it has never gone out of the charts. that - dark side of the moon. it has never gone out of the charts. that is - dark side of the moon. it has never gone out of the charts. that is a - gone out of the charts. that is a decent recommendation. you would have the rolling stones? maybe iain duncan smith as an old rocker? now then, last week we spoke to keir starmer, who told me he didn't want to be prime minister when he was a child, although he certainly does now. the week before we spoke to the prime minister, the youngest person in thatjob

in a very long time. now we'll hearfrom nicola sturgeon, scotland's first minister, in the latest of our leaders' interviews to get us off to a good start in 2023. we sat down in her official residence in edinburgh bute house, where, although as you'd expect, she wants to contrast the two governments, she's also having to deal with strikes and problems in the struggling health service too. yes, education is the foundation of so much of everything that a country then achieves, and scotland has challenges in education, like many other countries, but we are seeing a narrowing of the attainment gap. when i see record numbers from our most deprived community is go into higher education, so lots of work still to do, but lots of progress has been made. if it still to do, but lots of progress has been made.— still to do, but lots of progress has been made. if it is still your number one _ has been made. if it is still your number one priority, _ has been made. if it is still your number one priority, though, i has been made. if it is still your l number one priority, though, how have you ever allowed a situation to develop their families and children at the moment are not able to go to school all the time because of a

series of rolling strikes? irate school all the time because of a series of rolling strikes? we are not series of rolling strikes? we are rrot simply _ series of rolling strikes? we are rrot simply digging _ series of rolling strikes? we are not simply digging our- series of rolling strikes? we are not simply digging our heels - series of rolling strikes? we are not simply digging our heels in l series of rolling strikes? we are i not simply digging our heels in and refusing to negotiate, as we often see with the uk government. so we are seeking an agreement with teachers. of course, the local authority organisation is also part of the tripartite negotiations that we have with the teaching profession. teachers in scotland are the best paid, on average, in the uk. since 2018, teachers have had more than 20% increase in their salary, and right now they are being offered a pay increase for next year thatis offered a pay increase for next year that is equivalent in terms of percentage uplift to that already accepted byjanitors and dinner men and ladies in our schools, so we are trying to achieve fairness. but there has been, for the discussion in recent days, as we speak right now, there is a further meeting of the negotiating body under way. i hope we can see some further compromise that reaches the kind of agreement that we have been able to

reach with other groups of public sector workers. but reach with other groups of public sector workers.— reach with other groups of public sector workers. but would you like to -a sector workers. but would you like to pay teachers — sector workers. but would you like to pay teachers more, _ sector workers. but would you like to pay teachers more, and - sector workers. but would you like to pay teachers more, and do - sector workers. but would you like to pay teachers more, and do you | to pay teachers more, and do you think you will have to? i hear what you are saying, you are trying to be fair, but the fact is, at the moment, the significant disruption forfamilies and pupils. 50. moment, the significant disruption for families and pupils.— moment, the significant disruption for families and pupils. so, would i like to -a for families and pupils. so, would i like to pay teachers _ for families and pupils. so, would i like to pay teachers more? - for families and pupils. so, would i like to pay teachers more? yes. i l like to pay teachers more? yes. i would like to pay all public sector workers more. in scotland, many workers more. in scotland, many workers are paid more than their counterparts elsewhere in the uk. take the nhs, the offerfor this year on average is 7.5% in scotland, compared to 4.5% in england and wales. teachers are already higher paid on average than their counterparts.— paid on average than their counterarts. �* , . counterparts. but experienced teachers in — counterparts. but experienced teachers in scotland _ counterparts. but experienced teachers in scotland would - counterparts. but experienced | teachers in scotland would say counterparts. but experienced - teachers in scotland would say they are lagging behind their counterparts in scotland. it is true, they're starting salary is a more generous. what i'm asking though is what you are to sort these strikes out. , though is what you are to sort these strikes out-— strikes out. these comparisons are illustrative. — strikes out. these comparisons are illustrative, but _ strikes out. these comparisons are illustrative, but we _ strikes out. these comparisons are illustrative, but we are _ strikes out. these comparisons are illustrative, but we are working - illustrative, but we are working to resolve these disputes. we managed

to resolve the dispute in scotrail so the strikes that happened here were not to do with the dispute with the scottish government, or with scotrail. we have appointed industrial action in the nhs and we are working to stop industrial action with teachers. but are working to stop industrial action with teachers. but these are all questions. _ action with teachers. but these are all questions, it _ action with teachers. but these are all questions, it is _ action with teachers. but these are all questions, it is all— action with teachers. but these are all questions, it is all a _ action with teachers. but these are all questions, it is all a matter - action with teachers. but these are all questions, it is all a matter of l all questions, it is all a matter of political choice. if you wanted to pay teachers more to get these strikes resolved, if you want to commit to paying less is more in order that strike action does not take place, you could make political choices to spend less on other things. i'm not saying it's the right thing to do all the wrong thing to do, but you do have choices. i thing to do, but you do have choices. ~ thing to do, but you do have choices. ,, . �* , . . choices. i think that's a fair question- _ choices. i think that's a fair question. you _ choices. i think that's a fair question. you are - choices. i think that's a fair question. you are right - choices. i think that's a fair question. you are right to i choices. i think that's a fair i question. you are right to say choices. i think that's a fair - question. you are right to say it is about choices and we are making those choices, but we don't have all the leeway that the uk government has. d0 the leeway that the uk government has. , ., ~' the leeway that the uk government has. y., ,, , the leeway that the uk government has. ,, , . ,, has. do you think it is in crisis in scotland? _ has. do you think it is in crisis in scotland? if— has. do you think it is in crisis in scotland? if you _ has. do you think it is in crisis in scotland? if you are _ has. do you think it is in crisis in scotland? if you are working - has. do you think it is in crisis in scotland? if you are working in i has. do you think it is in crisis in i scotland? if you are working in the nhs, i scotland? if you are working in the nhs. i think— scotland? if you are working in the nhs, |thinkfor_ scotland? if you are working in the nhs, i think for some _ scotland? if you are working in the nhs, i think for some patients - scotland? if you are working in the | nhs, i think for some patients who are waiting too long for treatment, that's how it will feel right now.

the vast majority of patients in nhs scotland get excellent care and very timely care, but recently, too many patients have not had that. we are starting to see, thankfully, an easing of some of the winter pressures, so we have had an improvement over recent days in accident and emergency are waiting times, for example. so we are working to support the health service through these pressures. your party has been in charge here for16 your party has been in charge here for 16 years, and during that time, the problems of the nhs have got worse. the situation has been exacerbated. what do you say to people who have looked at what is happening in the health service in scotland in the last few months and wonder how on earth it has got to this situation? in wonder how on earth it has got to this situation?— this situation? in many respects, the standard _ this situation? in many respects, the standard of _ this situation? in many respects, the standard of quality _ this situation? in many respects, the standard of quality of - this situation? in many respects, the standard of quality of health | the standard of quality of health care over the years you talk about has improved. we have had a three—year pandemic that has exacerbated issues. lots of reform and improvement in how we deliver health care. changing the way people who call for emergency care will be treated. so there's lots of

improvements and changes, but there are significant pressures.— are significant pressures. roughly the same number _ are significant pressures. roughly the same number of _ are significant pressures. roughly the same number of people - are significant pressures. roughly the same number of people are i are significant pressures. roughly - the same number of people are having to wait 12 hours in a&e now as they did in 2016. as a government, that's not progress, is it? but did in 2016. as a government, that's not progress, is it?— not progress, is it? but to be fair, i think any — not progress, is it? but to be fair, i think any minister _ not progress, is it? but to be fair, i think any minister probably - not progress, is it? but to be fair, i think any minister probably in . not progress, is it? but to be fair, | i think any minister probably in any country across the world sitting he would remind you that they're something quite significant that happened between 2016 and today. global pandemic, that has put significant pressure on the health service. but significant pressure on the health service. �* , .,, , significant pressure on the health service. �* , , , service. but the problems existed before the pandemic. _ service. but the problems existed before the pandemic. but - service. but the problems existed before the pandemic. but if- service. but the problems existed before the pandemic. but if i - service. but the problems existed before the pandemic. but if i take the pre-pandemic _ before the pandemic. but if i take the pre-pandemic period, - before the pandemic. but if i take the pre-pandemic period, yes, i before the pandemic. but if i take| the pre-pandemic period, yes, we before the pandemic. but if i take i the pre-pandemic period, yes, we had the pre—pandemic period, yes, we had a situation where waiting times were increasing, but in the immediate pre—pandemic period, and i can furnish you with statistics, we started to reduce waiting times through a range of initiatives and funding that we were applying to that. it is perhaps not entirely fair to compare as if we're comparing like like, 2016 and today. nobody should have to wait 12 hours

in accident and emergency and the first majority not waiting anywhere near that. ~ , near that. with the gender recognition _ near that. with the gender recognition act, _ near that. with the gender recognition act, trans- i near that. with the gender recognition act, trans- --| near that. with the gender i recognition act, trans- -- trans- recognition act, trans— —— trans— aduu recognition act, trans— —— trans— adult in scotland who want help sometimes have to wait for years to get the right kind of treatment so is that acceptable? no, it is not acceptable. the process by which a trans person can get a gender recognition certificate has attracted attention on these issues because we have been putting legislation through parliament. but there legislation through parliament. elf there are are a wider range of issues for trans people. access to treatment for those who want to go through certain processes is another of these areas. hf it through certain processes is another of these areas.— of these areas. if it is not acceptable, _ of these areas. if it is not acceptable, this - of these areas. if it is not acceptable, this is - of these areas. if it is not acceptable, this is part i of these areas. if it is notj acceptable, this is part of of these areas. if it is not i acceptable, this is part of the scottish health service. that will not be scottish health service. that will rrot be unique — scottish health service. that will not be unique to _ scottish health service. that will not be unique to scotland. i scottish health service. that will not be unique to scotland. we i scottish health service. that will. not be unique to scotland. we are taking steps to invest more in these services, to improve the services, to reduce waiting times. loath?

services, to improve the services, to reduce waiting times.— services, to improve the services, to reduce waiting times. why do you believe that — to reduce waiting times. why do you believe that you _ to reduce waiting times. why do you believe that you are _ to reduce waiting times. why do you believe that you are old _ to reduce waiting times. why do you believe that you are old enough i to reduce waiting times. why do you believe that you are old enough at i believe that you are old enough at the age of 16 to make a profound decision about changing your gender, when you are not old enough, according to the law, to buy a pint in the pub, to drive a car? the law does not treat you fully as an adult when it comes to all sorts of different things.— when it comes to all sorts of different things. you can take a view as to _ different things. you can take a view as to what _ different things. you can take a view as to what you _ different things. you can take a view as to what you think i different things. you can take a view as to what you think what | different things. you can take a| view as to what you think what i different things. you can take a i view as to what you think what i am about to say is right or wrong, but in scotland you can choose to get married and have a child, you can join the army. additional measures were amended into the legislation so that there is great advice and support available to what would be a tiny number of people of that age group wanting to go through this process. when i was growing up, and probably 16, process. when i was growing up, and probably16, i process. when i was growing up, and probably 16, i used to take the view that there should be a single age of consent. i think over time, i think it is right to look at, why can't a 16—year—old, you know, drink alcohol in a pub question what you need to look at the particular circumstances. the physical issues

around some of these things. the point is, all of these issues in scotland have been in detail, and this is legislation that has probably been subject to more scrutiny than any other piece of legislation that the scottish parliament has passed in almost 25 years. parliament has passed in almost 25 ears. ., �* , parliament has passed in almost 25 ears. ., �*, ., ,, , years. some women's groups feel they were not listened _ years. some women's groups feel they were not listened to _ years. some women's groups feel they were not listened to carefully - were not listened to carefully enough, who do have a concern that a tiny minority of predatory men could take advantage of the way that the rules have been changed. to the detriment of biological women, who are biologically female at birth. if their worst fears are realised, do you and the politicians who have voted for this potentially bear you and the politicians who have voted for this potentially hear some response of a tea for that? politicians bear response ability for any legislation they pass, and the consequences of that, so of course. i don't believe that will be the case. we tried very hard to listen carefully to all views in the two consultations that were held on this legislation. some of the groups

that work closest with women that are subject to violence by predatory men, domestic violence, rape crisis scotland, women's aid scotland, a zero tolerance scotland, these are groups that work with vulnerable women every single day will stop these organisations support this legislation, so it is important to be clear. , . . be clear. yes, there are some that do and some _ be clear. yes, there are some that do and some that _ be clear. yes, there are some that do and some that don't. _ be clear. yes, there are some that do and some that don't. actually, | do and some that don't. actually, most of the _ do and some that don't. actually, most of the key _ do and some that don't. actually, most of the key women's - most of the key women's organisations in scotland do support this legislation. the fear that women have about predatory men accessing women only spaces to abuse and attack women is very real. you don't have to show your birth certificate to access women's only spaces, so the point is, this bill does not give a predatory man any more ability to abuse women than that predatory man already has. the uk government contends that your legislation does have a big impact on the equality act, that protects rights for all different groups. share rights for all different groups. are

the rights for all different groups. fife they wrong? rights for all different groups. site they wrong? yes, they rights for all different groups. file they wrong? yes, they are rights for all different groups. site they wrong? yes, they are wrong. and i add an introductory point about this supposed clash. when we first put forward this proposal, the uk government had exactly the same plans. undertheresa government had exactly the same plans. under theresa may, the uk, it was planned to do exactly the same, so the fact we have ended up in a policy divergent position is not because the scottish government has changed its mind on this, it is because the uk government changed its mind. ., ._ , because the uk government changed its mind. ., , ., , . its mind. you say there is no effect on the equalities _ its mind. you say there is no effect on the equalities act, _ its mind. you say there is no effect on the equalities act, the - its mind. you say there is no effect on the equalities act, the legal- on the equalities act, the legal opinion on that is divided. legal oinion in opinion on that is divided. legal opinion in most _ opinion on that is divided. legal opinion in most things - opinion on that is divided. legal opinion in most things is - opinion on that is divided. lfic—l opinion in most things is divided! but it is divided. there are different opinions, so you can't be categoric that it has no impact on the equalities act, and therefore isn't it the right thing to put the brake on, press pause, while this gets sorted out? the brake on, press pause, while this gets sorted out?— gets sorted out? the scottish parliament — gets sorted out? the scottish parliament considers - gets sorted out? the scottish parliament considers all i gets sorted out? the scottish parliament considers all of i gets sorted out? the scottish i parliament considers all of that on every legislation that it passes. i have not heard any argument about the impact on the equality act that i find the impact on the equality act that ifind in any the impact on the equality act that i find in any way persuasive or

compelling because the act does not change the legal effect of a gender recognition certificate. but the uk government has done is just veto it. an instruction to the presiding officer that the bill can't be said for royal assent. if the argument was that there is an issue that needs to be decided in court, the route they have chosen to take does not actually do that. they are exercising some kind of governor general —like power to block a democratic decision that the scottish parliament... actually, it is one elected _ scottish parliament... actually, it is one elected government - scottish parliament... actually, it is one elected government taking| scottish parliament... actually, it. is one elected government taking a decision to block something that another elected government has chosen to do, in accordance with the law. you don't like it, but section 35 is set out there are something that the uk government can do. ltrul’heh that the uk government can do. when we started this. _ that the uk government can do. when we started this, the _ that the uk government can do. when we started this, the uk _ that the uk government can do. ewen we started this, the uk government was also consulting on a similar proposal. 2018, in that consultation the uk government said the issue of gender recognition is devolved to the scottish parliament. scotland can have a separate system if it so

chooses. what has changed about that? they did not raise these concerns with us directly during the process of this bill. they wait until after the scottish parliament has passed it, and they exercise not something to take it to court, but a veto. �* , something to take it to court, but a veto. �*, ., . ., , . . veto. it's outrageous. so what are ou auoin veto. it's outrageous. so what are you going to — veto. it's outrageous. so what are you going to do? _ veto. it's outrageous. so what are you going to do? can _ veto. it's outrageous. so what are you going to do? can you - veto. it's outrageous. so what are you going to do? can you confirm| you going to do? can you confirm that you will seek a judicial review? that you will seek a 'udicial review? ~ ., , ., review? we will do everything to stand u- review? we will do everything to stand up for— review? we will do everything to stand up for and _ review? we will do everything to stand up for and defend - review? we will do everything to stand up for and defend the i stand up for and defend the legislation. the uk government are doing this for two reasons. firstly, shamefully, disgracefully, they are trying to stoke a culture war on the back of one of the most vulnerable groups in our society because they somehow think that plays well with their base ahead of a general election. , ., , , . election. they would dispute that stronal . election. they would dispute that strongly- you _ election. they would dispute that strongly. you can _ election. they would dispute that strongly. you can get _ election. they would dispute that strongly. you can get them i election. they would dispute that strongly. you can get them on i election. they would dispute that strongly. you can get them on to | strongly. you can get them on to talk about _ strongly. you can get them on to talk about it. _ strongly. you can get them on to talk about it. they _ strongly. you can get them on to talk about it. they are _ strongly. you can get them on to talk about it. they are stoking i strongly. you can get them on to talk about it. they are stoking a l talk about it. they are stoking a culture war. secondly, this is part of a pattern of undermining and seeking to delegitimise the scottish parliament. so the issues are really

important, and ifeel very strongly that trans people should not be weaponised. this that trans people should not be weaponised— that trans people should not be weaponised. this is one of many controversial _ weaponised. this is one of many controversial issues _ weaponised. this is one of many controversial issues you - weaponised. this is one of many controversial issues you have i weaponised. this is one of many i controversial issues you have dealt with in your extra ordinary time. you have had extraordinary electoral success year after year. do you still think you are the leader that will take scotland to independence? i would like to think so. i think scotland is going to be independent. nobody would believe me if i said, no, i would nobody would believe me if i said, no, iwould rather nobody would believe me if i said, no, i would rather it was somebody else. but for me, who the leader is that take scotland to independence is less important than that it can reach independence. do you feel it will be you?— will be you? yes, i do. jacinda ardern said — will be you? yes, i do. jacinda ardern said she _ will be you? yes, i do. jacinda ardern said she does - will be you? yes, i do. jacinda ardern said she does not i will be you? yes, i do. jacinda ardern said she does not havej will be you? yes, i do. jacinda - ardern said she does not have enough in the tank to continue. how much is left in nicola sturgeon 's ten? there is panty left in the tank. i don't mean on a single day. if i ever reach the point, which she has clearly reached, and overall if i just can't give the job everything it deserves, then i hope i have the same courage she has had in saying

0k, same courage she has had in saying ok, this is the point to go. ijust for the avoidance of all doubt, i don't feel anywhere near that right now. ., . , now. nowhere near. interesting. nicola sturgeon, _ now. nowhere near. interesting. nicola sturgeon, thank - now. nowhere near. interesting. nicola sturgeon, thank you i now. nowhere near. interesting. nicola sturgeon, thank you for i nicola sturgeon, thank you for talking to us. thank you. we want to hear what you think about that and all our interviews today. you can email us at kuenssberg@bbc.co.uk. use hashtag bbclaurak on social media, and if you go to the bbc news website you'll see the live page, which has analysis during and after the programme. now, for all the constiuttional clashes, the tricky questions about ministers�* tax bills the priority for many of course, is paying the bills. prices may be rising a touch less slowly, but they're still heading up and up. labour hopes its fortunes are too, but how would the party really be able to take the pressure off, and also pay its way? rachel reeves, the shadow chancellor, is with us. welcome.

good to have you in the studio. good morninu. good to have you in the studio. good morning- first _ good to have you in the studio. good morning. first of _ good to have you in the studio. good morning. first of all, _ good to have you in the studio. good morning. first of all, do _ good to have you in the studio. good morning. first of all, do you think that all ministers should just publish their tax returns? would that be more straightforward? i that be more straightforward? i would be relaxed about that, but we have got a situation now in the conservative party, where you have got the chairman, who used to be the chancellor, who it looks like has been fined one william pounds or more for not paying his taxes. you have got a deputy prime minister, who is being investigated for bullying claims, and you have got a former prime minister, who it is alleged had his extravagant lifestyle funded by a donor who was facilitated by the current chairman of the bbc, who instantly got that job just after facilitating that arrangement. taste job just after facilitating that arrangement.— job just after facilitating that arranuement. , . . . arrangement. we should be clear that the have arrangement. we should be clear that they have denied _ arrangement. we should be clear that they have denied anything _ arrangement. we should be clear that they have denied anything went i arrangement. we should be clear that| they have denied anything went wrong in that scenario. ihla they have denied anything went wrong in that scenario.— in that scenario. no one thought there was any — in that scenario. no one thought there was any need _ in that scenario. no one thought there was any need to _ in that scenario. no one thought there was any need to declare i there was any need to declare anything in terms of a conflict of interest. and you have got a prime minister who is too weak to do

anything about it. it's going to take an incoming labour government to clean up this mess, drain the swamp. to clean up this mess, drain the swam. . ~' , to clean up this mess, drain the swam. . ~q , to clean up this mess, drain the swam. . «g , . to clean up this mess, drain the swam. . q , . , swamp. frankly, it stinks. that is re swamp. frankly, it stinks. that is pretty inflammatory _ swamp. frankly, it stinks. that is pretty inflammatory language. i swamp. frankly, it stinks. that is. pretty inflammatory language. you say you are relaxed about publishing tax returns, but would you as a labour government he very different, say everybody gets to the cabinet has to put all their tax affairs out in the open. has to put all their tax affairs out in the open-— has to put all their tax affairs out in the open. would you make that commitment? _ in the open. would you make that commitment? i— in the open. would you make that commitment? i would _ in the open. would you make that commitment? i would be - in the open. would you make that commitment? i would be very i in the open. would you make that i commitment? i would be very relaxed about it. but would you do it? i would be happy to do that if that was the feeling that was necessary. but the problem about nadhim zahawi, the former chancellor who was in charge of the tax when he potentially came to this arrangement, the problem with him is that if he had published his taxes, they wouldn't have been much to be seen because he wasn't paying them. that is the problem here. but seen because he wasn't paying them. that is the problem here.— that is the problem here. but in terms of how — that is the problem here. but in terms of how your _ that is the problem here. but in terms of how your approach i that is the problem here. but in i terms of how your approach might be different, should the shadow cabinet right now publish their tax returns, and then the public could really compare and contrast, and can see exactly how things are?— compare and contrast, and can see exactly how things are? honestly, i would not have _ exactly how things are? honestly, i would not have a _ exactly how things are? honestly, i would not have a problem - exactly how things are? honestly, i would not have a problem with - would not have a problem with publishing my tax return. it's a

pretty straight document. unlike, it seems, some people running the government at the moment. straightforward documents are not right now people 's energy bills. often they look at them and are horrified by what is going on. the government has provided billions of pounds of support to people, but it is due to be produced at easter. you are saying labour would carry on giving people money the current level, but how long would you keep going on with that? wouldn't have to be a limit? ~ ., ., ., ~' going on with that? wouldn't have to be a limit? ~ ., ., ., ~ ., be a limit? well, we are looking at how we can — be a limit? well, we are looking at how we can step — be a limit? well, we are looking at how we can stop bills _ be a limit? well, we are looking at how we can stop bills going - be a limit? well, we are looking at how we can stop bills going up - be a limit? well, we are looking at how we can stop bills going up in l how we can stop bills going up in april. at the moment they are due to go april. at the moment they are due to 9° up april. at the moment they are due to go up from an average of £2500, up to £3000 go up from an average of £2500, up to e3000 and most people just have not got the money to pay that additional amount in their energy bills, additional amount in their energy hills, which is why labour have said, keir starmerand hills, which is why labour have said, keir starmer and myself have said, keir starmer and myself have said that we would expand the windfall tax on the huge profits at the energy giants are making, and we would use that money to cap those

bills. and also, to help people on prepayment meters who are currently paying more for their energy than those who pay for it by direct debit. and also, a moratorium on this thing that is happening at the moment of energy companies moving people from regular payments to prepayment meters, which is effectively cutting some people off from heating at a time when, this week, damages fell below zero. this is totally unacceptable and under labour it would not happen. ml is totally unacceptable and under labour it would not happen. i'll ask about the windfall _ labour it would not happen. i'll ask about the windfall tax _ labour it would not happen. i'll ask about the windfall tax on _ labour it would not happen. i'll ask about the windfall tax on a - labour it would not happen. i'll ask. about the windfall tax on a moment, but people watching this morning might think great, if labour want to carry on giving more money towards bills, but surely would have to put a limit on how long you could do that? you spent a lot of time in the last few months telling the public you would keep an iron grip on the public finances, that you can'tjust go around writing bigger checks. what would the limit be? how long can ou what would the limit be? how long can you really _ what would the limit be? how long can you really keep _

what would the limit be? how long can you really keep helping - what would the limit be? how long can you really keep helping people | can you really keep helping people pay the bills. i would never make a spending commitment without telling you where the money would come from. this weekend we have announced a further three months of the cap of £2500. but after that? further three months of the cap of £2500. but afterthat? if further three months of the cap of £2500. but after that? if you look at the forecast for where energy prices are going, it looks like hopefully they are starting to come down, so that's why we have made a commitment for a further three months. we think we could raise an additional £13 billion through the windfall tax, and this announcement i have made about freezing the price cap at £2500 for a further three months costs a fraction of that, around £3 billion.— months costs a fraction of that, around £3 billion. everybody hopes the conflict in _ around £3 billion. everybody hopes the conflict in ukraine _ around £3 billion. everybody hopes the conflict in ukraine comes - around £3 billion. everybody hopes the conflict in ukraine comes to - around £3 billion. everybody hopes the conflict in ukraine comes to an | the conflict in ukraine comes to an end, there's not much sign of that, as we have been discussing with james cleverly this morning. what happens at the end of three months customer would you just keep going and keep going? customer would you 'ust keep going and keep going?— customer would you 'ust keep going and keep going? we've always said we would look at — and keep going? we've always said we would look at it _ and keep going? we've always said we would look at it depending on - and keep going? we've always said we would look at it depending on what - would look at it depending on what is happening to oil, gas and electricity prices. at the moment, the forecast look like they are coming down, which is why we have said £2500 should be a maximum, and if those prices fall, then that

should be reflected in the bills. but what you have got is on one side these huge profits that oil and gas companies, energy companies are making. on the other side, you've got these huge bills. as the oil and gas prices come down, so those windfall profits will come down, but also, so must people skills. but it's not as _ also, so must people skills. but it's not as simple as that when you come to the windfall tax. some big energy companies are warning that actually, pumping more from them in windfall tax would lead to people losing theirjobs. shell have said that they are thinking again about £25 billion worth of investment in the uk, which labour would argue investment is desperately needed. harbour energy, and oil and gas company, say they are going to have to shed jobs because of the effects of the government 's existing windfall tax. with the windfall tax, is not some kind of free cash machine that you can just keep going to without any consequences. the chief executive _ to without any consequences. iue: chief executive of to without any consequences. “me: chief executive of bp to without any consequences. 11l: chief executive of bp has to without any consequences. 1“1'l: chief executive of bp has said to without any consequences. 11l

chief executive of bp has said that a windfall tax would not affect their investment decisions. but other companies say it would end already is. other companies say it would end alread is. �* , :, :, ~' other companies say it would end alread is. �* , ., , other companies say it would end already ia— other companies say it would end alread is. �* , ., , ., already is. let's look at why we are ro ecosin already is. let's look at why we are preposing a — already is. let's look at why we are proposing a windfall— already is. let's look at why we are proposing a windfall tax, _ already is. let's look at why we are proposing a windfall tax, and - already is. let's look at why we are proposing a windfall tax, and while| proposing a windfall tax, and while we have been for more than a year. it's because they are windfalls of war. those profits are being enjoyed because of russia 's invasion of ukraine, which has pushed up prices. it is right to capture that. it's not because of the ingenuity of the firms that they have enjoyed those profits. but firms that they have en'oyed those rofits. �* ,:, , profits. but the government is already taking _ profits. but the government is already taking a _ profits. but the government is already taking a lot. _ profits. but the government is already taking a lot. they - profits. but the government is| already taking a lot. they don't profits. but the government is - already taking a lot. they don't use the phrase windfall tax, but they are already taking a lot from those excess profits. but do you acknowledge at the very least that there might be a downside? you quote bp, i can say that shall have already said there is a warning around it, and another company, harbour energy say they will have to shed jobs because of the windfall tax already, if people work in the energy sector in aberdeen, for example, they might get more help on their bills but lose theirjobs. 11 you look at previous examples of

windfall tax, whether that was labour 's windfall tax on the privatised utilities in 1997, or george osborne or margaret thatcher, and you didn't see those false investment, i believe this is the right thing to do. but we have got to go beyond this sticking plaster approach of coming in and putting huge amounts of money to fix problems. that's why this weekend i also set up more detail on labour 's ambition is to get to clean power by 2030, but also bring the 19 million homes in britain that don't meet the basic energy performance level up to the right standard because if you do those things, you don'tjust save people if you hundreds on their bills for a year, you can save £1400 on bills for a whole year and that's why it should be a priority. i'm sure we will talk about that on another occasion.— sure we will talk about that on another occasion. you have also had another occasion. you have also had a busy week — another occasion. you have also had a busy week of _ another occasion. you have also had a busy week of being _ another occasion. you have also had a busy week of being in _ another occasion. you have also had a busy week of being in davos, - a busy week of being in davos, that's the annual get—together of chief executives and politicians from around the world. we can see a

picture of you and kiss some there in your snow boots. i'm not wearing them today! i think some people in your party might look at those images of your party leader and your shadow chancellor at davos, rubbing shoulders with essentially the global financial 1%, shoulders with essentially the globalfinancial1%, and kind of wince at that a bit. what would you say to them?— say to them? what i would say is that in the _ say to them? what i would say is that in the last _ say to them? what i would say is that in the last few _ say to them? what i would say is that in the last few years, - that in the last few years, investment into britain has fallen. our exports have taken a hit, and our growth and productivity have been on the floor. keir starmer and myself want to say, with an incoming labour government, britain would be very much open for business. we want investment in the uk, and the industries of the future. 131.11 investment in the uk, and the industries of the future. but you don't need _ industries of the future. but you don't need to — industries of the future. but you don't need to go _ industries of the future. but you don't need to go to _ industries of the future. but you don't need to go to davos - industries of the future. but you don't need to go to davos to - industries of the future. but you don't need to go to davos to do| don't need to go to davos to do that, to go and hang out with these people? that, to go and hang out with these ..eole? , that, to go and hang out with these --eole? ,., ., that, to go and hang out with these ..eole? ,., ., , people? davos is a great opportunity to meet global— people? davos is a great opportunity to meet global leaders, _ people? davos is a great opportunity to meet global leaders, to _ people? davos is a great opportunity to meet global leaders, to meet - people? davos is a great opportunity to meet global leaders, to meet our| to meet global leaders, to meet our opposite numbers. i met

representatives from the german treasury. that is incredibly important, to have those opportunities, as well as meeting international investors and british business, to set out labour 's plans for clean power by 2030, to encourage investment into britain. and it's as important because there is a global race going on for the industries of the future. president biden is putting a huge bet on carbon capture and storage on electric vehicles. the european union is doing the same, and grant shapps, the business secretary in davos this week, said that those things were dangerous. i tell you what is dangerous, is sitting on the sidelines harping while other government are taking the action to get investment into their countries, and i'm determined that britain does not miss out in this global race for thejobs of the not miss out in this global race for the jobs of the future. that's why keir starmer and myself are putting forward our plans to business leaders at the world economic forum this week. :, : , , this week. rachel reeves, we must leave it there. _ this week. rachel reeves, we must leave it there. thank _ this week. rachel reeves, we must

leave it there. thank you _ this week. rachel reeves, we must leave it there. thank you very - this week. rachel reeves, we mustj leave it there. thank you very much for coming — leave it there. thank you very much for coming in- _ for coming in. thank you. as ever, we've been racing the clock, and it's nearly ten. an hour ago, we began by asking if, after a scrappy week, rishi sunak is really keeping his promise of running a professional government, after months of shambles. does james cleverly think things would be simpler if all politicians published their tax returns? look, i think we keep _ published their tax returns? look, i think we keep hearing _ published their tax returns? look, i think we keep hearing that - published their tax returns? look, i think we keep hearing that we - published their tax returns? look, i think we keep hearing that we want j think we keep hearing that we want politicians to, you know, he more like the rest of us, and less to be a kind of strange and unique beast so i think that, you know, the rules we apply to others, it is legitimate to also apply to politicians. john allen, to also apply to politicians. john allen. the _ to also apply to politicians. john allen, the last _ to also apply to politicians. john allen, the last time _ to also apply to politicians. john allen, the last time you - to also apply to politicians. john allen, the last time you are in the programme you said as leader of a big company in the uk, you are starting to be impressed by what you heard from the labour party. this is you are going to davos, what do you think about that? 1 you are going to davos, what do you think about that?— think about that? i think it is absolutely — think about that? i think it is absolutely right _ think about that? i think it is absolutely right that - think about that? i think it is absolutely right that they - think about that? l think it is| absolutely right that they are reaching out to business, wherever

it is, _ reaching out to business, wherever it is, and _ reaching out to business, wherever it is, and there are lots of business _ it is, and there are lots of business people in davos, so i can say full— business people in davos, so i can say full marks for doing that. while continuing — say full marks for doing that. while continuing to spend a lot of time talking _ continuing to spend a lot of time talking to — continuing to spend a lot of time talking to business in the uk. i wish _ talking to business in the uk. i wish the — talking to business in the uk. i wish the government would do the same _ wish the government would do the same we — wish the government would do the same. we have big opportunities long tenn _ same. we have big opportunities long tenn i'm _ same. we have big opportunities long tenn i'm an — same. we have big opportunities long term. i'm an optimist about the future _ term. i'm an optimist about the future of— term. i'm an optimist about the future of this country. i think there — future of this country. i think there are _ future of this country. i think there are all sorts of things we could _ there are all sorts of things we could and _ there are all sorts of things we could and should be doing. full marks— could and should be doing. full marks to — could and should be doing. full marks to labour for starting to accept — marks to labour for starting to accept those out. i would like the government to do the same. are they not under rishi _ government to do the same. are they not under rishi sunak _ government to do the same. are they not under rishi sunak west _ government to do the same. are they not under rishi sunak west mother i not under rishi sunak west mother last time we talked, things were difficult, he was meant to be drawing a line.— difficult, he was meant to be drawin: a line. :, , :, . ., drawing a line. has nothing changed? i don't see the _ drawing a line. has nothing changed? i don't see the engagement _ drawing a line. has nothing changed? i don't see the engagement with - i don't see the engagement with businesses needed. i think future economic— businesses needed. i think future economic growth plan needs to be bought— economic growth plan needs to be bought into, both by business and the government, and indeed the universities. we have an amazing global— universities. we have an amazing global leadership position in universities, four of the top ten and we — universities, four of the top ten and we need to engage all those people _ and we need to engage all those people to create the future. we are short of time- _ people to create the future. we are short of time. iain _ people to create the future. we are short of time. iain duncan - people to create the future. we are short of time. iain duncan smith, i short of time. iain duncan smith, you have admitted to being an old

rocker. do you feel worried briefly hearing that from john allen, from a big businessman sent you guys are falling behind question mark i do, but i also agree. taste falling behind question mark! do, but i also agree.— but i also agree. we now need to lift our heads _ but i also agree. we now need to lift our heads up _ but i also agree. we now need to lift our heads up and _ but i also agree. we now need to lift our heads up and expect - but i also agree. we now need to lift our heads up and expect to i lift our heads up and expect to people where we are going to go to get growth. how to reduce the burden on individuals, but also regulation change. one of the reasons for leaving the eu was to get our regulations relevant to the uk. that is a very big undertaking. there is some huge potential business markets. meditech centred in the uk could be bigger than financial services. all of that is why you should be optimistic about this country. 50 should be optimistic about this count _ :, , , should be optimistic about this count . , :, country. so lots up for grabs. racheljohnson, _ country. so lots up for grabs. racheljohnson, are - country. so lots up for grabs. racheljohnson, are you - country. so lots up for grabs. - racheljohnson, are you optimistic? just on _ racheljohnson, are you optimistic? just on growth, _ racheljohnson, are you optimistic? just on growth, i_ racheljohnson, are you optimistic? just on growth, i think— racheljohnson, are you optimistic? just on growth, i think that - racheljohnson, are you optimistic? just on growth, i think that one - racheljohnson, are you optimistic? just on growth, i think that one way| just on growth, i think that one way of going _ just on growth, i think that one way of going against _ just on growth, i think that one way of going against growth _ just on growth, i think that one way of going against growth is _ just on growth, i think that one way of going against growth is just - of going against growth isjust scrapping _ of going against growth isjust scrapping all _ of going against growth isjust scrapping all those _ of going against growth isjust scrapping all those eu - of going against growth is just - scrapping all those eu regulations 'ust scrapping all those eu regulations just for— scrapping all those eu regulations just for the — scrapping all those eu regulations just for the sake _ scrapping all those eu regulations just for the sake of— scrapping all those eu regulations just for the sake of it. _ scrapping all those eu regulations just for the sake of it. i— scrapping all those eu regulations just for the sake of it. i think- scrapping all those eu regulations just for the sake of it. i think youl just for the sake of it. i think you should _ just for the sake of it. i think you should be — just for the sake of it. i think you should be much— just for the sake of it. i think you should be much more _ just for the sake of it. i think you should be much more selective l just for the sake of it. i think you - should be much more selective about that. should be much more selective about that the _ should be much more selective about that the ones — should be much more selective about that. the ones that _ should be much more selective about that. the ones that business- should be much more selective about that. the ones that business wants i that. the ones that business wants to get— that. the ones that business wants to get rid _ that. the ones that business wants to get rid of. — that. the ones that business wants to get rid of, consider, _ that. the ones that business wants to get rid of, consider, but- that. the ones that business wants to get rid of, consider, but don't. to get rid of, consider, but don't 'ust to get rid of, consider, but don't just have — to get rid of, consider, but don't just have a — to get rid of, consider, but don't just have a bonfire _ to get rid of, consider, but don't just have a bonfire of— to get rid of, consider, but don't just have a bonfire of the - just have a bonfire of the regulations. _ just have a bonfire of the regulations.— just have a bonfire of the regulations. just have a bonfire of the reuulations. , _, , :, ., just have a bonfire of the reuulations. , , :, ., ., regulations. ten seconds to have a big argument! _

regulations. ten seconds to have a big argument! as _ regulations. ten seconds to have a big argument! as a _ regulations. ten seconds to have a big argument! as a whole - regulations. ten seconds to have a big argument! as a whole other. big argument! as a whole other conversation, a whole other programme. john, who do you want to see play on top of buckingham palace question mark tom jones. amazing recommendations from all my old rockers. rachel, not you, of course. thank you both so much for being with us this morning. a huge thank you to our excellent trio at the table. racheljohnson, iain duncan smith and tesco bossjohn allan. we're closing out one tricky week for rishi sunaks�*s government, but another potentially tough one starts. one cabinet minister has privately told me that government minister nadhim zahawi may well have to go, because he was trying to sort out his tax affairs when he was chancellor at this stage the foreign secretary told us he can tough it out. join the conversation right now on the bbc live page. i'll be there in a while. as ever, you can catch up with any of our programmes on the iplayer, and i'll see you same time, same place next week. bye till then.

this is bbc news broadcasting in the uk and around the globe. our top stories... the uk labour party calls for a parliamentary investigation into claims the chairman of the bbc helped boris johnson secure a financial loan while he was serving as prime minister. investigators seize more classified documents from president biden's home in the us state of delaware. reports of a mass shooting east of los angeles — it's unclear how many people have been injured. at an emotional meeting in new zealand, jacinda ardern hands over the leadership of her party — and country — to chris hipkins. buckingham palace announces world—famous entertainers will perform at a concert at windsor castle to mark the king charles' coronation in may