this is bbc news. the headlines... us media reports say police in california are responding to a shooting during chinese new year celebrations that has left several people injured. the shooting took place just around 10p the shooting took place just around iop m the shooting took place just around 10p m local time. it happened in monterey park east of los angeles. a row breaks out in britain over a report that the bbc chairman helped borisjohnson secure a financial loan whilst he was serving as prime minister. labour have called for a parliamentary investigation into the matter. us investigators seize six more classified documents during a 13—hour search of president biden�*s home in the state of delaware. classified documents should be handed over to the national archive for secure storage at the end of an administration. at an emotional meeting in new zealand, jacinda ardern

hands over the leadership of her party, and country, to chris hipkins. the new prime minister has picked a female deputy of pacific island heritage. you're watching bbc news. now, it's time for political thinking with nick robinson. hello and welcome to a new series. a conversation with, rather than an interrogation of someone who shapes our political thinking about what has shaped theirs. my guest this week is the leader of britain's second largest trade union, sharon graham, who replaced the rather better—known mark. —— len mccluskey.

we are at a time where there are strikes in the health service, strikes on the railway, strengths and schools, strikes in the civil service. for years, there's been talks of a new winter of discontent. we must be honest, it has been largely that. talk. these trade unions to have a mandate for members and have the backing of large sections of the public. to have a fight over the standard of their members�* living. welcome to political thinking. because you've been around a long time, you've got perspective on this, does it feel like the beginning of a new balance of power in the workplace, may be in society more generally or does feel like a one—off? i don't think a one—off moment

and moving toward something i think part of that was because of the pandemic and peoples on the pandemic that it was every day people that were not fighting, many workers but mostly people who were paid less money in society, that they were sent out there and at a time we didn't know there would be a vaccine and we didn't know any of these things, they went out to deal with when they came back, they were ignored and i think as a society, everybody has empathy and sympathy with that and also because they're going to the same thing. so, i actually think that the genie is out of the bottle in the game is up think people are realising that it is workers and everyday people for the one thinking this economy going. that phrase that you made, growing. it was used as a stick to attack the winter of discontent, alleged to bring down a labour government. in myjournalistic career, i constantly said that it never really was actually.

we're doing bingo with cliches! but what i think is, we have a very unequal society and we have had for years and years. i think you need to look at the solutions to that now we cannot tinker around the edges any more because it's completely broken i'll give you an example. if you take the health dispute. £170 billion excess profit more than usual profit for the energy companies with a black hole, supposedly a £40 billion. a big day of action, and the particular day coming up on february 6th, in which nurses from the college of nursing

and ambulance workers and paramedics largely represented, are your members joining? yes, we will be on strike that day. for you who largely represent people in the private sector, does it raise different questions for you? does it make you pause? the question that you always get when people in call centres and paramedics go on track aggro strike, hold on, this could threaten lives and it certainly increases the suffering of people and increases anxiety, does it make you pause more than a conventional dispute? yes. than a conventional dispute? yes, because nobody _ than a conventional dispute? yes, because nobody wants _ than a conventional dispute? ye: because nobody wants lives to be lost and we are really careful, irrespective of the lies that have been set by some ministers, to make sure that in the ambulance dispute, i was on the picket line in the west midlands, that we had proper minimal cover because that's important to

us. we do it in a way that we try not to have any difficulties. but i have to say, lives are being lost now. there was a piece that came out yesterday and they believe 500 excess lights have been lost a week because of waiting times. so something has to be done. —— mike excess lives. if they don't solve the pay crisis, they can't solve the crisis of the workforce, so the nhs is on its knees. rishi sunak needs to come to the table. he is the ultimate decision—maker. he is the person that, if this was in an outside dispute in the private sector, we would be speaking. he won't come to the table. a few weeks back i interviewed you on the today programme. at the end of that interview, a former tory cabinet minister sent me a text saying, i'm glad i minister sent me a text saying, i'm gbdlam minister sent me a text saying, i'm glad i am not negotiating with her. really? where did the toughness come from? i don't think you can ever pinpoint it yourself. i've always been somebody who is quite determined. i've always taken on other people �*s

fight and got myself in trouble a couple of times for it. but probably looking back, what do i think made me like this? i think hearing the story of my uncle james, my dad is a geordie and my great uncle james died in a rock fall in a durham pit in 1941 died in a rock fall in a durham pit in1941 andi died in a rock fall in a durham pit in 1941 and i was eight when i first heard that story around the breakfast table. i was really scared. i thought, breakfast table. i was really scared. ithought, this breakfast table. i was really scared. i thought, this person has gone out to work and they never came home, and their children didn't have a father. i thought, at least that can't happen again. thank god that can't happen again. thank god that can't happen again. but of course it does happen. i thought it was so far in the past. i was a child and i thought that happened in the past, it will never happen again. but as i grew up, it does happen. people still die at work, right the way to the pandemic, where we have had workers dying at work. it is always

working class people who are thrown out there and end up dying at work. they were paid £300. this is my uncle �*s family in 1921, £300 in compensation with three children under ten who did not have their father, and it affected the family for a long time. it was notjust that moment, it affects the family for a long time. injustice is what probably we felt. i for a long time. in'ustice is what probably we felt.— for a long time. in'ustice is what probably we felt. i wouldn't know that at the _ probably we felt. i wouldn't know that at the time. _ probably we felt. i wouldn't know that at the time. so _ probably we felt. i wouldn't know that at the time. so your- probably we felt. i wouldn't know that at the time. so your dad, . probably we felt. i wouldn't know. that at the time. so your dad, tom, your mum, joan. your mum is irish, from a strong irish family. definitely.— from a strong irish family. definitel . ., ., , ., ., definitely. your dad, they moved to west london. _ definitely. your dad, they moved to west london, which _ definitely. your dad, they moved to west london, which is _ definitely. your dad, they moved to west london, which is where - definitely. your dad, they moved to west london, which is where you i definitely. your dad, they moved to i west london, which is where you were brought up. but they weren't that political. brought up. but they weren't that olitical. ., ., , , ., , political. no, absolutely not. they weren't that _ political. no, absolutely not. they weren't that political. _ political. no, absolutely not. they weren't that political. they - political. no, absolutely not. they| weren't that political. they worked in the hospitality industry, they both came here in their teens. it was their 60 year anniversary this year, so they met young, got married young, but they have always been

political in the small centre, if such a thing exists. if i go to them now, which i do on a friday evening, there is always a conversation about there is always a conversation about the current affairs of the day. you sa ou the current affairs of the day. you say you get _ the current affairs of the day. you say you get into — the current affairs of the day. you say you get into trouble sometimes fighting. at home? did you have to fighting. at home? did you have to fight at home to get your fair share? ~ , , , ., share? my first ever their share, i sa to share? my first ever their share, i say to my — share? my first ever their share, i say to my sister — share? my first ever their share, i say to my sister often _ share? my first ever their share, i say to my sister often i _ share? my first ever their share, i say to my sister often i got - share? my first ever their share, i say to my sister often i got her i share? my first ever their share, i say to my sister often i got her a l say to my sister often i got her a pay rise very early on because it was about pocket money. my brother is older than me, and i think we were getting 50p, my sister and i, and he was getting way more, maybe a pound. my dad said if i can come up with a proposal, an argument as to why you should get the same, i will consider it. and i did. you negotiated _ consider it. and i did. you negotiated with _ consider it. and i did. you negotiated with your - consider it. and i did. you negotiated with your own father about sex disconnection amongst the children? i about sex disconnection amongst the children? . , ,., , ., children? i absolutely did and i won. he worked _ children? i absolutely did and i won. he worked a _ children? i absolutely did and i won. he worked a split - children? i absolutely did and i won. he worked a split shift, l children? i absolutely did and i | won. he worked a split shift, so every time he came home he got in his ear about this. do every time he came home he got in his ear about this.— every time he came home he got in his ear about this. do you remember our his ear about this. do you remember your argument? _

his ear about this. do you remember your argument? first _ his ear about this. do you remember your argument? first of— his ear about this. do you remember your argument? first of all, - his ear about this. do you remember your argument? first of all, why - his ear about this. do you remember your argument? first of all, why did | your argument? first of all, why did it cost more — your argument? first of all, why did it cost more for— your argument? first of all, why did it cost more for him _ your argument? first of all, why did it cost more for him to _ your argument? first of all, why did it cost more for him to live - your argument? first of all, why did it cost more for him to live than - it cost more for him to live than me? and he would be able to buy more suites, and why was he able to but tracy and i weren't able to? it was probably childish, but i think my dad quite liked that i had prepared it, rehearsed it, and i answered questions on it. 50 it, rehearsed it, and i answered questions on it.— it, rehearsed it, and i answered questions on it. so he gave in. we leave -- you _ questions on it. so he gave in. we leave -- you left _ questions on it. so he gave in. we leave -- you left school _ questions on it. so he gave in. we leave -- you left school at - questions on it. so he gave in. we leave -- you left school at 16 - questions on it. so he gave in. we leave -- you left school at 16 and| leave —— you left school at 16 and you followed your parents in your firstjob into the hospitality trade. is it true that in your first job you led a walk—out? i trade. is it true that in your first job you led a walk-out?- job you led a walk-out? i did. lookin: job you led a walk-out? i did. looking back, _ job you led a walk-out? i did. looking back, that _ job you led a walk-out? i did. looking back, that was - job you led a walk-out? i did. looking back, that was a - job you led a walk-out? i did. looking back, that was a bit l job you led a walk-out? i did. - looking back, that was a bit pushy! basically what happened, in the hospitality industry we used to do banquets, so without boring everyone to death, you would have a table of ten, maybe 200 people in the room... posh catering? yes, silver service. in that sort of a situation, there is a top table. i wasn't good enough for that, is a top table. i wasn't good enough forthat, but is a top table. i wasn't good enough for that, but when the top table finishes, somebody puts up their hand and everyone clears. what

happened was a group of workers were coming in that were getting less than aass per shift, and we were saying, the group of waitresses were saying, the group of waitresses were saying we will get less next time. it wasn't our wages at work less, but someone else coming in. for some reason it was me that was asked to be the spokesperson, which i did. i remember it like yesterday. i remember it like yesterday. i remember giving very good arguments, i thought. it was the first time i thought waited argument doesn't necessarily mean you will get the right outcome. so i said... how old? i was 17. 50 right outcome. so i said... how old? iwas17. ., ., i was 17. so you tried negotiating, then what? _ i was 17. so you tried negotiating, then what? i _ i was 17. so you tried negotiating, then what? i went _ i was 17. so you tried negotiating, then what? i went to _ i was 17. so you tried negotiating, then what? i went to the - i was 17. so you tried negotiating, then what? i went to the office i i was 17. so you tried negotiating, l then what? i went to the office and i came out — then what? i went to the office and i came out and _ then what? i went to the office and i came out and said, _ then what? i went to the office and i came out and said, he _ then what? i went to the office and i came out and said, he is - then what? i went to the office and i came out and said, he is not - i came out and said, he is not listening to us. we will have to do something else. i spoke to him prior to the service starting, and he was very disparaging. he was rather rude. thought, 0k, very disparaging. he was rather rude. thought, ok, that's that ended. i came out to the girls, as

we each other then, he has been so rude, and we had not even started serving at this stage. so we said ok, we will serve the first course. 0k, we will serve the first course. when they put their hand up to clear from behind the top table, we just won't move. so in he comes looking very annoyed, and going bananas, and basically he gave the money. i felt very satisfied about it, but i was probably the youngest of the team. perhaps the most stupid, or the most brave, i'm not sure which one. you then no brave, i'm not sure which one. you then go and _ brave, i'm not sure which one. you then go and work— brave, i'm not sure which one. you then go and work for the transport general workers union. you go to something, i think a lot of people don't know exists, the trade unions academy. by the sounds of it, you should be teaching them! it academy. by the sounds of it, you should be teaching them!- academy. by the sounds of it, you should be teaching them! it was an orauanisin should be teaching them! it was an organising academy, _ should be teaching them! it was an organising academy, where - should be teaching them! it was an organising academy, where they i organising academy, where they talked about the difference between recruitment and organisation, and i understand why they did it, and

anything else, but it was good, there were lots of good things from it but lots of things i wouldn't have done. i was there with a number of other people who were doing different things in the trade union movement, so it was a good initiative. movement, so it was a good initiative-_ movement, so it was a good initiative. ., , , initiative. the thing that brings ou to initiative. the thing that brings you to this _ initiative. the thing that brings you to this job _ initiative. the thing that brings you to this job is _ initiative. the thing that brings you to this job is not _ initiative. the thing that brings you to this job is not public - you to this job is not public profile. you're a much lower profile than your predecessor, len mccluskey. this profile that attaches to your name, and what i think other people called leverage. what is it? i made the decision when i stood that i thought it was important for me as the general secretary to make sure that when i woke up in the morning i was defending workersjobs, pay woke up in the morning i was defending workers jobs, pay and conditions. defending workers “obs, pay and conditions. �* , . ~ defending workers “obs, pay and conditions. �*, ., ., , conditions. let's take an example. you had a — conditions. let's take an example. you had a whole _ conditions. let's take an example. you had a whole series _ conditions. let's take an example. you had a whole series of- conditions. let's take an example. j you had a whole series of disputes with bus companies, didn't you? yes. with bus companies, didn't you? yes, in one example. _ with bus companies, didn't you? yes, in one example, there _ with bus companies, didn't you? yes in one example, there was a strike in one example, there was a strike in the north—west of 500 bus

drivers, who were fired and rehired. they'd been on strike for weeks. what we did in this instance, that same company was going for a norwegian rail contract in norway the £3.8 billion, so that was worth a lot more to them than what you will save over firing and rehiring 500 people. so we did the whole campaign around ad £3.8 million contract. we basically went to norway, we spoke to the politicians, we spoke about what was happening, and effectively frustrating that a bid to say, hang on, these people are firing and hiring people in britain, if you hire them here they will cause industrial unrest. so the company makes a choice. do we don't want —— to be want that happening, or do we go back to the negotiating? so what happened? weill. or do we go back to the negotiating? so what happened?— or do we go back to the negotiating? so what happened? well, the ceo said we will never — so what happened? well, the ceo said we will never use _ so what happened? well, the ceo said we will never use are _ so what happened? well, the ceo said we will never use are firing _ so what happened? well, the ceo said we will never use are firing and - we will never use are firing and hiring again. that was such an important moment. people were saying

to me at the time, there are 500 people in an area of the north—west, but had that gone through and those workers were fired and hired and their wages were suppressed, that would have happened to all of the company in the uk, other bus companies might have followed suit. it's really important that states are put on the ground, and that's why it is only used in very hostile terrain. it is not used as a normal everyday business. but terrain. it is not used as a normal everyday business.— everyday business. but in other words, everyday business. but in other words. you _ everyday business. but in other words. you see _ everyday business. but in other words, you see the _ everyday business. but in other words, you see the job - everyday business. but in other words, you see the job of- everyday business. but in other words, you see the job of a - everyday business. but in other - words, you see the job of a general secretary as, frankly, less of this, less of talking to people like me, and one of your friends said, "she's doing this because she has to, she doesn't much like it". i’m doing this because she has to, she doesn't much like it".— doesn't much like it". i'm having a ve nice doesn't much like it". i'm having a very nice time. — doesn't much like it". i'm having a very nice time, it's _ doesn't much like it". i'm having a very nice time, it's not _ doesn't much like it". i'm having a very nice time, it's not that - doesn't much like it". i'm having a very nice time, it's not that i - very nice time, it's not that i don't like it, but for me what i think is myjob, the reason i took thejob and why think is myjob, the reason i took the job and why i wanted to be elected to our members was that i wanted to refocus the union on jobs, pay and conditions, but to wind. that was your pitch, essentially saying i'm going to be as different from len mccluskey as you can

imagine. then, love talking about the labour party, love being involved in politics, love talking a lot. , ., �* ., lot. yes, i wouldn't say that. politics matters. _ lot. yes, i wouldn't say that. politics matters. the - lot. yes, i wouldn't say that. politics matters. the thing i lot. yes, i wouldn't say that. | politics matters. the thing is, lot. yes, i wouldn't say that. - politics matters. the thing is, i'm not saying i'm not political because of course i am political, but i want to win. i want my members to win. so the politics should be rooted in what our members are needing. investment in manufacturing, obviously pay rises, all of these things. when i talk to keir starmer and i meet him often, our conversations around workers, what are we going to do to make the life of working people better? so the choice is argument, the different choices that need to be made, a whole range of different things. but for me, it's about making sure that the politics works for working people because that is my role. you have been pretty direct about that. you said at the tuc conference of keir starmer, "whose side are you on?" yes i did. has keir starmer, "whose side are you on?" yes i did-— keir starmer, "whose side are you on?" yes i did. has he chosen? well, what i on?�* yes i did. has he chosen? well,

what i think— on?" yes i did. has he chosen? well, what i think about _ on?" yes i did. has he chosen? well, what i think about this _ on?" yes i did. has he chosen? well, what i think about this is _ on?" yes i did. has he chosen? well, what i think about this is the - on?" yes i did. has he chosen? well, what i think about this is the big - what i think about this is the big question for 2023 is going to be, who pays? who pays for the crisis? who pays for the black hole? who pays? and i think it is really important that labour do not allow working people to pay for this. it has got to be paid in a different way. has got to be paid in a different wa . ., ., ., , ., way. there are two theories of keir starmer, way. there are two theories of keir starmer. and _ way. there are two theories of keir starmer, and you _ way. there are two theories of keir starmer, and you know _ way. there are two theories of keir starmer, and you know him - way. there are two theories of keir starmer, and you know him better| starmer, and you know him better than most. what is he a radical pretending to be, and he misrepresented himself. he is a bit of a centrist. misrepresented himself. he is a bit of a centrist-— of a centrist. who is right? i don't know who — of a centrist. who is right? i don't know who is _ of a centrist. who is right? i don't know who is right _ of a centrist. who is right? i don't know who is right because - of a centrist. who is right? i don't know who is right because he'll. of a centrist. who is right? i don't i know who is right because he'll have to answer that question himself. but i do know that you cannot get into governmentjust because you are better than the other lot. i think the country is crying out now for a strong leadership to say actually, we have got a different way, we have got solutions. i thought the other day, it is like a bad tribute act. we have got the tory party wanting to be margaret thatcher and the labour party wanting to be tony blair. why can't we just say, what

are the issues that are affecting workers today? what issues are affecting our country, and what choices can we make? i think there are different choices to make that we are not speaking about, that we are not narrating, and i am going to make sure! are not narrating, and i am going to make sure i do that in the hope that somebody will pick it up at some point. 50 somebody will pick it up at some oint. ,., somebody will pick it up at some oint. , ., ., somebody will pick it up at some oint. i. ., ., ,., point. so when you hear the labour leader talking _ point. so when you hear the labour leader talking of _ point. so when you hear the labour leader talking of reforming - point. so when you hear the labour leader talking of reforming the - point. so when you hear the labour. leader talking of reforming the nhs, bringing in private companies to help cut the waiting list, that a bad tribute act to tony blair, is it? ~ ., ., , , it? well, nothing will happen in the nhs until they _ it? well, nothing will happen in the nhs until they deal _ it? well, nothing will happen in the nhs until they deal with _ it? well, nothing will happen in the nhs until they deal with a - it? well, nothing will happen in the nhs until they deal with a crisis - it? well, nothing will happen in the nhs until they deal with a crisis of. nhs until they deal with a crisis of workers. nothing will happen until that happened. i workers. nothing will happen until that happened-— workers. nothing will happen until that happened. i wonder what made ou sa that happened. i wonder what made you say bad — that happened. i wonder what made you say bad tribute _ that happened. i wonder what made you say bad tribute act. _ that happened. i wonder what made you say bad tribute act. what - that happened. i wonder what made you say bad tribute act. what is - you say bad tribute act. what is that? basically _ you say bad tribute act. what is that? basically because - you say bad tribute act. what is that? basically because people| you say bad tribute act. what is i that? basically because people are trying to emulate the past, and we are not in the past. {aide trying to emulate the past, and we are not in the past.— are not in the past. give me an example- _ are not in the past. give me an example- i _ are not in the past. give me an example. i suppose _ are not in the past. give me an example. i suppose things - are not in the past. give me an i example. i suppose things about are not in the past. give me an - example. i suppose things about the nhs, some example. i suppose things about the nhs. some of— example. i suppose things about the nhs, some of the _ example. i suppose things about the nhs, some of the languages - example. i suppose things about the nhs, some of the languages are - nhs, some of the languages are similar in terms of what has been said around the nhs and reform. that annoys workers in the nhs because

what they are saying exactly come out and talk about pay, let's get the staff crisis sorted out, but let's talk about whatever needs to be done after that. we let's talk about whatever needs to be done after that.— be done after that. we talk to you -- about you _ be done after that. we talk to you -- about you having _ be done after that. we talk to you -- about you having to _ be done after that. we talk to you -- about you having to be - be done after that. we talk to you -- about you having to be a - be done after that. we talk to you i -- about you having to be a fighter, —— about you having to be a fighter, a fighter at home, a fight against injustice in the workplace, but you also had to fight to become leader of this union. they try to bully you into not running. i of this union. they try to bully you into not running.— of this union. they try to bully you into not running. i remember when i first thought — into not running. i remember when i first thought about _ into not running. i remember when i first thought about running, - into not running. i remember when i first thought about running, and - into not running. i remember when i first thought about running, and the| first thought about running, and the reason i wanted to run is because i wanted to drive us into a much more focused jobs, wanted to drive us into a much more focusedjobs, pay wanted to drive us into a much more focused jobs, pay and conditions agenda, with politics, but with focus from the members. yes, i knew that i was going to get a tax, i knew that. abuse, notjust attacks. a whole range of different things happened in that election. i spoke to my parents, i spoke to my husband and my son, and to inoculate them that this was going to happen. um?

that this was going to happen. why were ou that this was going to happen. why were you sure _ that this was going to happen. why were you sure that you would face that? i were you sure that you would face that? ., , �* ., ., ,., that? i wasn't the anointed son, i wasn't following _ that? i wasn't the anointed son, i wasn't following the _ that? i wasn't the anointed son, i wasn't following the line - that? i wasn't the anointed son, i wasn't following the line in - that? i wasn't the anointed son, i wasn't following the line in terms j wasn't following the line in terms of that. and i wasn't following the line because i didn't agree with the line. i thought that our union needed to be going into a direction ofjobs, pay and conditions, and when we did that we would win more, and that's what has happened. you did something else that upset them, didn't you customer you said, that row about the hotel and the conference centre in birmingham, that row about millions of pounds, i'm not going to ignore it any more. yes, is actually in a strange way, that probably is where most of the threats came in after i had become general secretary, threats came in after i had become generalsecretary, but threats came in after i had become general secretary, but the thing for me is this. i came in, no one does thisjob if you haven't me is this. i came in, no one does this job if you haven't got elbows, and you need to come in and do exactly what you are saying you are going to do and people will respect you for that. there was going to be no stone unturned. if there was something there, we needed to find it out and face it, literally. two

inquiries, one into the birmingham hotel, and one into our outsourced contractors. the hotel, and one into our outsourced contractors-— hotel, and one into our outsourced contractors. the first one is almost 100 new pounds. _ contractors. the first one is almost 100 new pounds. the _ contractors. the first one is almost 100 new pounds. the police - contractors. the first one is almost 100 new pounds. the police are i 100 new pounds. the police are looking into it.— 100 new pounds. the police are looking into it. yes, the difference was £31 million. _ looking into it. yes, the difference was £31 million. we _ looking into it. yes, the difference was £31 million. we paid _ looking into it. yes, the difference was £31 million. we paid £100 - was £31 million. we paid £100 billion to do it. difference from? from what we thought have —— from what we thought we should have paid to what we actually paid. what i do know is we paid more than £31 million and it came out in invoices. we either got fleeced by every contractor going, or there was another reason for it. i don't know what the reason is, that's why the police have it and they are the people to make that mark. i don't know, i can't look into the things they can. but what i do know is that we were, at best, over charge. the reports can't give the outcome because it's looking at how much money we spend, how much money it was. �* , ., _ money we spend, how much money it was. �* was. but when you did say you were auoin to was. but when you did say you were going to look _ was. but when you did say you were going to look into _

was. but when you did say you were going to look into it _ was. but when you did say you were going to look into it and _ was. but when you did say you were going to look into it and call - was. but when you did say you were going to look into it and call it - going to look into it and call it out, what was the reaction? well, out, what was the reaction? well, you know. — out, what was the reaction? well, you know. i _ out, what was the reaction? well, you know. i got — out, what was the reaction? well, you know. i got a _ out, what was the reaction? well, you know, i got a lot _ out, what was the reaction? well, you know, i got a lot of— out, what was the reaction? well, you know, i got a lot of flack - out, what was the reaction? well, you know, i got a lot of flack for i you know, i got a lot of flack for it. you know, some people might call it. you know, some people might call it threats. i'm a tough person so i just say, it was water off a ducks back because it was going to happen. you know, and even up till now, this whole thing about publishing them, they will be published. i have come in, i have done the inquiry. we have either been fleeced by contractors or to something else. whatever it is, i will go after that money to get it back, whoever and whatever it is. in the meantime, the police have the reports, both reports, and once they have done what they need to do, then i will do what we need to do. you know, it had to be done, nick, you can't shy away from these things. you can't shy away from these thins. . �* , you can't shy away from these thins. . v . you can't shy away from these thinus. ., �*, ., ., , , , things. that's what leadership is about. i heard _ things. that's what leadership is about. i heard that _ things. that's what leadership is about. i heard that four- things. that's what leadership is about. i heard that four men - things. that's what leadership is i about. i heard that four men went things. that's what leadership is - about. i heard that four men went up to you and said don't do this, or else. , ., , else. there were definitely threats. you know, else. there were definitely threats. you know. i — else. there were definitely threats. you know, i expect _ else. there were definitely threats. you know, i expect that _ else. there were definitely threats. you know, i expect that to - else. there were definitely threats. you know, i expect that to happen. j you know, i expect that to happen. you know, i expect that to happen. you know, i expect that to happen. you know, obviouslyi you know, i expect that to happen. you know, obviously i am dealing with it, yes.

you know, obviously i am dealing with it, yes-— you know, obviously i am dealing with it, yes. and have extra levels of composure. _ with it, yes. and have extra levels of composure, it _ with it, yes. and have extra levels of composure, it would _ with it, yes. and have extra levels of composure, it would seem. - with it, yes. and have extra levels i of composure, it would seem. how? what calms you down? the leader of unite, when you just need to say, i'm having a fight, sometimes with keir starmer, sometimes with employers, what helps you to come down? it employers, what helps you to come down? , ,., , �* down? it might be boring, but i'm luc to down? it might be boring, but i'm lucky to have _ down? it might be boring, but i'm lucky to have my _ down? it might be boring, but i'm lucky to have my mum _ down? it might be boring, but i'm lucky to have my mum and - down? it might be boring, but i'm lucky to have my mum and dad i down? it might be boring, but i'm. lucky to have my mum and dad still alive. i live five roads away from them, so i have to say, going to them, so i have to say, going to them, going and seeing them, which i can do, and speaking to them stop obviously, mum is irish and i was brought up with irish music, a nice little irish club at somewhere is a nice thing. b. little irish club at somewhere is a nice thin. �* , ., little irish club at somewhere is a nice thing-— little irish club at somewhere is a | nice thing._ there nice thing. a bit of singing? there is alwa s nice thing. a bit of singing? there is always singing _ nice thing. a bit of singing? there is always singing at _ nice thing. a bit of singing? there is always singing at family - is always singing at family gatherings. i said is always singing at family gatherings. isaid my is always singing at family gatherings. i said my friend when i first became general secretary, a friend i've had since was 11, that my days of karaoke are over, for a bit anyway. my days of karaoke are over, for a bit anyway-—

my days of karaoke are over, for a bit anyway. was it true, or are you still singing _ bit anyway. was it true, or are you still singing occasionally? - bit anyway. was it true, or are you still singing occasionally? behind i still singing occasionally? behind closed doors. — still singing occasionally? behind closed doors, where _ still singing occasionally? behind closed doors, where people - still singing occasionally? behind closed doors, where people can't hear me. i liked all sorts of irish songs. hear me. i liked all sorts of irish sonts. ., ., , hear me. i liked all sorts of irish sonts. ., y hear me. i liked all sorts of irish sonts. ., ., ., songs. rumour has it dolly parton was featured. _ songs. rumour has it dolly parton was featured. i _ songs. rumour has it dolly parton was featured. i might _ songs. rumour has it dolly parton was featured. i might have - songs. rumour has it dolly parton was featured. i might have done i songs. rumour has it dolly parton i was featured. i might have done that once or twice. _ was featured. i might have done that once or twice, but _ was featured. i might have done that once or twice, but mostly _ was featured. i might have done that once or twice, but mostly irish - once or twice, but mostly irish songs. and football? yes. my dad is a geordie, so anyone who has a father as a geordie knows there is no way you couldn't support newcastle. my son supports full and because my husband does, and my dad keeps getting him newcastle tops with his name on so he can't throw them away. so yes, you can't be the daughter of a geordie and support anyone else. at the moment, i'm saying things with my hands across my mouth, but the whole thing around money and the premiership, who owns it and all of those things, they are questions to be asked in society. it

is interesting, the way that football and the way it has been dragged away from its community routes into this of global plaything, originally for rich people, now for steaks, tells you quite a lot. people, now for steaks, tells you quite a lot-— quite a lot. yes, but actually i think it is _ quite a lot. yes, but actually i think it is an _ quite a lot. yes, but actually i think it is an error. _ quite a lot. yes, but actually i think it is an error. to - quite a lot. yes, but actually i think it is an error. to pay - quite a lot. yes, but actually i think it is an error. to pay for| think it is an error. to pay for your child and a family to go to football, who can afford to do that? it is so expensive, that actually, football is a working—class game because people played it and then they went to watch it, then they followed people and that they became passionate about. if you are pricing people out of the game, which is what is happening, they might choose another route, you know, so i think it's a real shame. and some of the smaller clubs are now folding, which is also a shame. football is a difficult area. i love newcastle and i want them to win, but there are problems with the game. aha, i want them to win, but there are problems with the game.- problems with the game. a final thou . ht, problems with the game. a final thought, could _ problems with the game. a final thought, could you _ problems with the game. a final thought, could you have - problems with the game. a final i thought, could you have leveraged that deal? was there a way of

persuading people not to let the saudis take question mark orjust to pick a club at random, manchester united. if you wanted to stop them being taken over?— being taken over? well, i believe that if only _ being taken over? well, i believe that if only we — being taken over? well, i believe that if only we had _ being taken over? well, i believe that if only we had time - being taken over? well, i believe that if only we had time to - being taken over? well, i believe that if only we had time to do - being taken over? well, i believe that if only we had time to do it, | that if only we had time to do it, actually the power of the collective, and the people say no to something, that is the one thing politicians really get and understand. and that'll be the same for whoever is running football. there is always leveraged to be done when you have got time to do it. sharon graham, general secretary of unite, i will come to you for more specific campaign advice. thank you forjoining me. specific campaign advice. thank you forjoining me— forjoining me. thank you. sharon is _ forjoining me. thank you. sharon is right _ forjoining me. thank you. sharon is right for - forjoining me. thank you. sharon is right for taking i forjoining me. thank you. l sharon is right for taking me forjoining me. thank you. - sharon is right for taking me to task about using that cliche, the winter of discontent. but there is something afoot this winter. it is notjust something afoot this winter. it is not just that there are more strikes, notjust that not just that there are more strikes, not just that there not just that there are more strikes, notjust that there is more confidence amongst a trade union leaders, there is a belief, too, that they can secure a better deal

for their members, and, that they can secure a better deal fortheir members, and, and that they can secure a better deal for their members, and, and this is the thing that really matters, start to say to society more generally, there are new choices you need to confront, new political choices. you need to make them. if they are right, that will really be significant for our political thinking. thanks for watching. hello. we still have some sunshine out across parts of central and eastern england today. for more of you, though, cloudier skies overhead — producing some rain or drizzle into the afternoon across southern scotland, parts of north west england, and around some of these irish sea coasts. but there will be a little bit more brightness and just one or two showers in northern scotland compared with the morning. a bit more brightness into

the northwest of northern ireland. here's where the mildest air is — ten, 11 degrees the highs. cold, though, further southwards and eastwards, and even though we've got the sunshine, there could be some lingering fog patches through some southern and eastern parts of england, and where they are temperatures won't get above freezing. through tonight, the fog patches return, as does the frost for many, but elsewhere, we will see clouds bring some patchy rain or drizzle, and keeping temperatures above freezing — minus five, minus six through some parts of central and eastern england. but a lot more cloud developing to go with that fog across parts of east anglia and the southeast. so for some here, it could actually be quite a grey and cold day on monday. a bit more sunshine through the southwest, through parts of wales and northern england tomorrow. but the mildest air — with a few brighter breaks, still — in scotland and northern ireland.

this is bbc news — welcome if you're watching here in the uk or around the globe. our top stories: police in california are responding to a mass shooting east of los angeles — they say nine people have been killed. the uk labour party calls for a parliamentary investigation into claims the chairman of the bbc helped boris johnson secure a financial loan while he was serving as prime minister. investigators seize more classified documents from president biden's home in the us state of delaware. at an emotional meeting in new zealand, jacinda ardern hands over the leadership of her party — and country — to chris hipkins. buckingham palace announces world—famous entertainers will perform at a concert at windsor castle to mark the king charles' coronation in may.