this is bbc news, the headlines: meta has said it will reinstate the facebook and instagram accounts of donald trump. he was suspended two years ago over posts praising the us capitol rioters who attempted to overturn his election defeat. mr trump says such a ban should never happen to a us president. president volodymyr zelensky has warmly welcomed the decision by washington and berlin to send advanced tanks to ukraine. in his nightly address, he said speedy delivery and sufficient numbers were key to his country's defence against russia. the cast and crew of the pioneering american children's tv show, sesame street, have paid tribute to its co—creator, lloyd morrisett, who has died aged 93. they praised his kindness and wisdom.

lloyd morrisett came up with the idea of using tv to teach young children basic skills like counting and recognising letters. now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. the war in ukraine has focused attention on vladimir putin's apparent desire to remake a greater russian space, incorporating chunks of the former soviet empire. with that in mind, keep an eye on what's happening in the tiny, disputed territory of nagorno—karabakh, where ethnic armenians backed by russia continue to defy azerbaijan's claim to sovereignty. my guest is ruben vardanyan, an armenian who made his fortune in russia and who is now de facto prime

minister of nagorno—karabakh. his enclave is in deep trouble. will russia save it? reuben vardanyan in nagorno—karabakh, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. now, mrvardanyan, many in our hardtalk audience will not know very much about nagorno—karabakh, but suffice to say, you are the state minister in a tiny territory of some 120,000 people. and right now, you have an urgent crisis because your land route out to armenia

is currently blockaded. what is the situation for the people living in your territory today? first of all, i want to say thank you for doing this interview. it's very important for the world knowing what's happening in a locked out territory where 120,000 people living in their own homeland for thousands of years and last 35 years was fighting for our own independence. and 38 days in december 12th, the azerbaijan named eco—activists block the road and with the support of the azerbaijani state now they control the road and we don't get anything except from red cross and russian peacekeepers. and we have 30,000 kids. it's winter, no electricity, limited electricity, no gas, basically, now, and no food and medicaments and gasoline without help of red cross and russian peacekeepers can come

to our territory now. so the red cross is making sure that some vital medicines get through. but i, i noticed that the authorities in your enclave have implemented a ration system where buckwheat, rice, sugar, pasta, and cooking oil is made available. but it sounds to me, if this continues, your territory is not going to be viable for very long, is it? i mean, people are going to suffer and this cannot continue. first of all, red cross has only one truck, two trucks, and 15 tonnes is a very limited number of the medicaments or food they can bring. no illusion about how much they deliver. the second you don't know well is the armenians and artsakh is very strong people. we've been living in this for thousands of years and we are very strongly committed to staying in the homeland. and like i said, the 35 years is this fight happened

and we are defending our territory and we believe in our values and our system is why, with all the difficulty we're facing, i believe the people will stay and strong and will stay committed to the, our own homeland. yeah. you just referred to your territory as artsakh. i should make it plain that while you, in yourterritory, refer to it as artsakh, the azerbaijani government, of course, calls it nagorno—karabakh, as indeed does the international community. so i just want to be clear about that. the biggest confusion for me about what is happening right now is that you have around 2,000 russian military personnel on your territory as supposed peacekeepers. now, why are they not opening the road to make sure that supplies can get through? before answering this question, i want to say, if you look there, the class, the history books in azerbaijan, azerbaijan soviet

republic time in 1980s, it was the same artsakh name and will be mentioned as armenian territories. i'm not doing something new, it's already been existed in a soviet time in azerbaijan, in historical book in the school. but let's go back to your question. first of all, people need to understand there's only 2,000 peacekeepers and they have a very limited mandate to use the weapon. and it's eco—activists, civilians, who closed the road formerly. and we have 540 kilometres of the border, which needs to be also controlled by russian peacekeepers. without delusion, it's a very small number of the soldiers. they have only light weapons and they have no right to shoot. it's why, with any peacekeeper, it's always very difficult to interfere between two sides. but isn't the truth, mr vardanyan, that right now vladimir putin has much bigger problems on his plate? the invasion of ukraine has led to a war which is sucking up

resources in moscow, and the last thing putin really, frankly, wants to do is get involved in a conflict in nagorno—karabakh. that's the truth. it leaves you much weaker, doesn't it, because russia's support is just not forthcoming? first of all, i don't know what's happening in his decision making, but we have a limitation. in november 9th 2020, azerbaijan, armenia and russia signed the documents, which was the number of the soldiers limited by azerbaijani side, which is why i don't know what you are talking about. maybe they had sent or not sent, but today they follow the document, it was signed, which azerbaijan today fully violate. because we are guaranteed open road for armenians living in artsakh without any control and now they are in full violation. yeah, i understand that there was this understanding, it involved the armenian government and the azerbaijani government.

what's interesting to me is that the armenian government, led by led by prime minister nikol pashinyan, is now very critical of moscow, saying that russian peacekeepers are failing in their duties. but you, interestingly, are being much less critical of moscow. why? you know, i advise you to come here with us and you will understand how it's important when you are surrounded by a state who has 10 million people with a lot of money, a lot of weapons, and we have only 120,000 people, and 30,000 kids, which needs to be safe. and they have 2,000 russian soldiers. do we want to peace with them? i want to ask you this question. are you ready for peace with the people who stay with you in this situation? i'm here in london, you're in nagorno—karabakh, it's the reality for you that has to be dealt with. and it seems right now that not only are the russians not helping you, but your relationship with armenia

and in particular with prime minister pashinyan is becoming increasingly toxic. and it seems the yerevan government doesn't really have a working relationship with you. i don't know this information. and by the way, in our country, the number one person, the president, who has always good contact with the prime minister, that's why i don't know about what you're talking. and this the speculation, which i'm not sure it makes sense to reflect and reference in our conversation. i think it's important to look at your background and why you are sitting in nagorno—karabakh today. you're a very wealthy man, reputed to be worth at least $1 billion, thanks to a business career in moscow, which coincided with vladimir putin's rise. and clearly the two of you are quite close. why did you decide last year to renounce your russian citizenship, which required special permission from putin, and remove yourself

from russia and decide to live in nagorno—karabakh? why did you do that? first of all, i started my business in 1991 with the $35,000 with american investors and i built together with my partners the best investment bank in the region. we bring a lot of investors to russia and biggest companies. i made the business in england. i made the business in the united states. i have a board membership in 30 different countries. and i been doing a lot of things in many places in philanthropy, in social. that is why i think your conclusion about my closeness to vladimir putin is not right because i've been working with many, many people in the power in a different countries and many, many private sector. well, you know that the organized crime and corruption reporting project and the navalny anti—corruption foundation have both accused you of, let's put it this way, dodgy business dealings in the past.

now you've never been charged with anything but nonetheless there are allegations that you have been part of an oligarch system that vladimir putin, you know, watched over, and that that's partly an explanation of your great wealth. look, four years ago, this publication happened. in these four years, i continue to stay and keep my position in many, many international organizations which confirm what people who know is true, people who knows me personally understand this is allegation without any proof, because no legal case, any place, any country's ever happened. there was an allegation about the king charles, about george clooney, about many other my colleagues and friends who have been working with me in a different project, like the minister, mentor of singapore, lee kuan yew, and many, many other people, which i've been privileged to know and work with. that's why, with all my respect to journalists who did their work,

it's allegation it was just the publication without any proof. and second, the financial institution which i was run at the time had the trillions of dollars of turnover with the hundreds of thousands of clients and blaming ruben vardanyan to doing something is it was like blamingjpmorgan or i know citibank has or doing something which way of course being responsible but not not being doing themselves. i think it was manipulation. and you're using this information again. i'm simply reflecting the record. and you're, of course, welcome to challenge anything i say. but the truth is that the azerbaijanis, in particular, they say that you are, and i'm quoting here political analyst elson sanyaolu in in baku, he says, ruben vardanyan is moscow's man in karabakh, and the kremlin is preparing for you to take complete charge of nagorno—karabakh. is that your intent? you know, i thought our programme would be about human rights, about the situation, humanitarian catastrophe, and if we will go about all

the speculation and the special azerbaijani side doing and we can go forever. i will prefer to talk about how the 125,000 people surviving in during this horrible time. and i have a pressure from, you name it, political scientist or eco—activist, by the way, i recommend you to check how many ecological protests have ever happened in azerbaijan during the last 30 years. and how many times autocratic regime of aliyev allowed any opposition for azerbaijan and not armenians allowed to say when it was against him? it's why we are talking about something which i am really a little bit surprised, but you're not touching the point of what's happening now real in here. and what is the behaviour of azerbaijan, by the way, today? no, i'm more than more than, more than interested. more than interested in talking about what is happening. but what is happening clearly is part of a bigger picture. the bigger picture is that the conflict on around your territory between armenia and azerbaijan has been going

on for many decades. what we saw in 2020 was that the azerbaijani military scored a major victory, pushed nagorno—karabakh back. you lost, what, two thirds and more of the territory you controlled before 2020. you now control a tiny enclave which is suffering from an economic blockade right now. and it seems to me your only realistic option is either to work out a political deal with azerbaijan or for the people, the armenian community in nagorno—karabakh, to decide that this is no longer sustainable and leave the territory. so which is it to be a political deal or leave? first of all, let me finish. today, the parliamentjust approved a resolution with strong message to president aliyev requesting the de—blockade the road. we're showing is not only russia, but in france, in you parliament, in the united states, surprisingly have a common view about this issue, which is really something very special, because we all know

what this relationship between major european countries and russia today. but mr vardanyan, even if the blockade is lifted, my question remains how can your community in nagorno—karabakh be viable in the long term? even the government in yerevan, the armenian government, says that this is no longer a territorial issue, ie, they're not making a claim to turn nagorno—karabakh into an independent state or part of armenia. they say in yerevan it is simply a matter of rights. that is, a question of negotiated, negotiating, guaranteed security and human rights for the armenian community inside your territory. but the implication is that in the long run you will be part of the azerbaijani sovereign state. do you accept that?

artsakh people, armenians who live in artsakh, from 1988, when there were soviet times, said that we will not be part of azerbaijan, and they fight for theirfreedom and they did all the right legal other steps. and we are today facing a very clear question to the world, saying, do whatever right for self—determination, especially in a state who violate all the human rights for your own people, how do you see possible to us to live in a country where is the regime... by the way, just for your understanding, for other people understanding the family who are ruling the country is from 104 years of existence of azerbaijan republic being part of soviet union or independence, 44 years one family controlled the country. there is no rights for the azerbaijani people, not just talking about the armenian, how you see the possibility for ethnic minority, to get any right, how they treat us to get any rights or any defence. why? for us, it's not a question

about do we want it or not? we don't see any chance. by the way, it's blockade. and yesterday example was very simple the kids, which was because we are the separate families who unfortunately kids was blocked in armenia, couldn't come back. after six weeks, the russian peacekeeper tried to bring them back to artsakh and they've been stopped and we been checked and psychologically attacked by azeri. xenophobia is so high. i want to be clear about this then. so sorry to interrupt, but i do want to be clear. are you saying that for you, and of course, frankly, many people say that right now you are running things in nagorno—karabakh, you are in no way prepared to have any sort of negotiation or dialogue with president aliyev and the azerbaijan government? no, we are ready for our negotiation. we are ready for a negotiation with understanding from azerbaijan side with this negotiation for two sides. because what we said and we said from the first day of the asking in independence, we understand and we accept it we'll be living side to side, but we'll be separate territory, we'll be separate state.

it will be separate rules of law because we are a democratic country. we have a president been elected. we cannot see ourselves be part of azerbaijan, but we respect what we've been living in the same region and we need to find a way, despite all the difficulty, to find a solution which will be acceptable from both sides. so, right... so it will be a lot of people die. do i take from that then that you fundamentally disagree with the government in yerevan who say it is now simply a question of negotiating the right sort of dealfor your people, human rights and security rights for your people being guaranteed. but they say it is no longer an issue of territory or sovereignty. armenian government, the leader of armenia, said, whatever will make the decision, the leaders of artsakh, we will follow our choice first. second, we got already read clear messages from france, from the united states, from russia. but we also see this issue is not closed. the page is not turned down. this is why, despite all the rhetoric around azerbaijan, international international community there, by the way, in un discussion, in un resolution in

the security council, it was clear the subject is not over. it's not over because we have a right to self—determination, because it ethnic cleansing is restricted by un charter, which is why, despite all the speculations from azerbaijan, the story is not over. we believe we have a rights for our own independence, for our own rights, to live in our own homeland. most of the people who live in artsakh understand the difficulties what we are facing ready for stay and defend our own home. despite we are small and we are very big. yeah, well, you say it's not over, but one big factor in all of this is russia, is it not? i mean, for decades, armenia has relied on russia for military support. i just wonder what you have drawn in terms of lessons from putin's invasion, his war of aggression in ukraine?

do you regard that war, first of all, as something you should condemn? and do you also see that it has dangerous lessons for armenia? look, i am now a state minister of the small republic with 120,000 people suffering because of the huge attack from azerbaijan state. and i'm responsible to defend my kids who lives here and my nation. and whatever needs to have to be defended, i will do it, which is why i want to answer this question the way what i will say whatever is necessary to save artsakh i will do it. but that's no answer at all. ijust asked you whether you would condemn putin's invasion of ukraine. and i answer you saying whatever was necessary to defend my own people, whatever would be right for them in this situation, to stay silent.

because i believe whatever my answer to about position in russia, about france, about the un state or others will damage the opportunity to get support of international. it will be wrong for me to comment. this is why, with all my regret, what's happening in a different conflict, by the way, not only there in ukraine, but in yemen, in syria and many other places in the world. i care only about what's happening with my people with i stay today in blockade for eight days with no electricity, no gas. the thing is you're very much out of step with many armenians living in armenia because they're very worried by the implications of putin's invasion of ukraine. i'm going to quote to you benjamin poghosyan, head of the center for political and economic strategic studies in yerevan. he said he says "it is becoming obvious that we can no longer rely on russia" — "even if russia gets out

of this ukraine war in one piece, they may well try to include us in armenia in a sort of union state with belarus, and that is not something we want " do you want that? do you think that armenia's fate and future lies with russia, putin's russia? i don't want to talk about armenia. we are a separate country. i'm talking about artsakh. artsakh don't want to be part of azerbaijan, which is clear. it's all. and you're quite happy for a long—term reliance on vladimir putin? what do you mean? well, i mean, it's quite simple. it seems to me that you're saying we are now quite distant politically from yerevan, from the armenian government. so your only guarantor, your only, frankly, hope for survival is vladimir putin. it's not true. the president macron clearly announced and made a lot of efforts to support artsakh. by the way, the speaker of the french senate was also made the same statement.

the us ambassador said recently we will cooperate with russia and try to find a solution to help artsakh to get out of this situation, which is why are manipulating a little bit because the western biggest country like france, the united states also clearly send a message that they are care about what's happening here. you know, there are people inside nagorno—karabakh, and you're a small community, onlyjust over 100,000 people, who think that your time as chief minister, state minister has been a disaster. bella lalayan, she says that all you've done is "stir up more trouble and jeopardise the security of our people." some want you out and they want you out now. it's the normal, people have a different opinions. i'm happy person to be here with with our people. i'm walking in the street every day. but the point is, the point is many of the people

in nagorno—karabakh think you're an outsider. you came in from moscow having made a fortune in russia. you're not, you weren't born in nagorno—karabakh. you were born in yerevan. many people in nagorno—karabakh wonder if you truly have their interests at heart. now, you can look my background. 20 years i've been doing here, my grandmother from here. i made around 89 projects in artsakh during the last 20 years. my son served in the army here. my daughter was here. so i, it's all speculations which people, of course, exist. any places where you want to speculate and make the dirty stories without looking at the real story? i came here september 2 of 2022 and i said, "i will be like any ordinary person." i didn't pretend to get any position. the president offered me the position, but i'm happy to stay without any position here. and i will stay here. i don't care do i will be state minister or not. i'm here with the people who need my support. not because i'm rich, because they want to see the people outside of artsakh realize what artsakh

is the key not only for them, artsakh is a key for entire nation because artsakh is one of the key dna keeper of armenian and armenian nation for thousands of years. so to be clear and to sum up, because we're out of time, you are going nowhere. is that the message? i will stay with my people here. whatever we will face, we will face together, yes. ruben vardanyan, i thank you very much indeed forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you. hello.

after a week of weather contrasts so far, thursday brings a bit more evenness to the weather across the uk and most will be dry. some decent sunny spells as well, particularly in the west. now, the reason for the change is that the weather fronts, which brought the heavy rain through the evening across east anglia and southeast, will have cleared into france overnight, allowing this ridge of high pressure to even things out. now, it doesn't mean we won't be without frost and ice, particularly across central and western areas, but temperatures still will be nowhere near as low as they have been through recent nights. a few mist and fog patches in the west, too, but for the vast majority, it is going to be a dry and sunny day. northern scotland will see a few showers and across south east scotland into eastern england, this is where we'll see some showers come and go throughout the day. not everyone will see them. many will stay dry and still a lot brighter across east anglia and the south—east compared with the grim conditions of wednesday. but here and across many eastern counties, it will be quite a blustery day.

but temperature—wise, as i said, we're evening things out. 6—9 degrees across much of the uk, which is not far off where we should be for this stage in late january. now, as we go into thursday evening and overnight, there will be some showers across eastern england, perhaps tracking a bit further westwards, especially for northern england, most of them will be dry. partly clear skies, a chance of some fog across scotland, northern ireland and north—west england, and it will be a little bit colder as well. more widespread frost to take us into friday morning with a risk of ice where showers have continued. but if anything, friday should be another pleasant day for most patchy cloud across england, a bit more in the west compared with thursday. and then later on, northwest scotland and northern ireland will see cloud increase, some rain into the western isles before the day is out. and temperatures similar to thursday's values with lighter winds. into saturday, though, more cloud on the scene. there will be sunshine in particular eastern scotland, southern counties of england. but this sort of cloud here with patchy rain, this is a weather front which is just toppling round our area of high pressure, and because it's within the area of high pressure, not much in the way of rain on it.

it will clear through off into the near continent. but another batch of more active weather fronts into sunday will push into the north—west. we start with the frost again, particularly across some southern areas. but sunday, there'll be some sunny spells across england and wales especially, but increasing cloud to scotland, northern ireland, heavy rain and strengthening winds. gale—force winds, if not gusts of wind in excess of 60 miles an hour by the end of the day, will lift temperatures up, though, compared to the next few days, but it will feel cooler in that breeze.

this is bbc news. i'm sally bundock with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. donald trump is to be allowed back on facebook and instagram. he was suspended two years ago over messages praising rioters who attacked the us capitol. ukraine has welcomed the decision by the united states and germany to provide modern tanks to push back the russian invasion. the international olympic commitee has suggested that russian and belarusian athletes will be allowed to compete at the paris 2024 summer games if they participate as neutrals. conservationists express concern about the impact of ageing plastics in our seas, following evidence that it's

now entering the human food chain.